Black Folk Don't
December 30, 2011 6:54 AM Subscribe
Black Folk Don't: "a web series... explor[ing] the notion of stereotypes about Black folks both without and within the African American community."
found via "Coming Out of the Black Nerd Closet: A Meditation" (previously on MeFi)
who found it via Issa Rae/"The Mis-Adventures of AWKWARD Black Girl" (previously on MeFi)
found via "Coming Out of the Black Nerd Closet: A Meditation" (previously on MeFi)
who found it via Issa Rae/"The Mis-Adventures of AWKWARD Black Girl" (previously on MeFi)
Man, this was NOTHING like Stuff White People Like.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:05 AM on December 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 7:05 AM on December 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Too bad there does not appear to be a written version. This is something I would have enjoyed reading about. I am not in a situation where I can watch/listen to video. I am getting tired of the net becoming so video-centric. It seems to be turning into tv, part II.
posted by parrot_person at 7:17 AM on December 30, 2011 [81 favorites]
posted by parrot_person at 7:17 AM on December 30, 2011 [81 favorites]
...sunburn as easily as I do. :/
One of my favorite anecdotes from a friend whose parents immigrated to the U.S. from Nigeria is of the time she came home one summer day with a sunburn despite being very dark-skinned. He mother took one look at her and said, "You are not my child."
These videos are interesting explorations of assumptions, though, even if my read based on the yoga one is "some do, sone don't."
posted by psoas at 7:35 AM on December 30, 2011
One of my favorite anecdotes from a friend whose parents immigrated to the U.S. from Nigeria is of the time she came home one summer day with a sunburn despite being very dark-skinned. He mother took one look at her and said, "You are not my child."
These videos are interesting explorations of assumptions, though, even if my read based on the yoga one is "some do, sone don't."
posted by psoas at 7:35 AM on December 30, 2011
I liked this a lot. It was shouted out recently in this post by Brandon Blatcher on black nerd-itude, along with lots of other interesting links in the comments.
posted by Miko at 7:37 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by Miko at 7:37 AM on December 30, 2011
I'll take a look at these when I get home from work, but in the meantime I'm going to hazard a guess that none of them come to the conclusion of "Holy crap, they really don't! Can you believe that? They totally don't!"
posted by key lime guy at 7:41 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by key lime guy at 7:41 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
"Black Nerd Closet" is a great name for either a Band or an Album.
posted by marienbad at 7:43 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by marienbad at 7:43 AM on December 30, 2011
I'll take a look at these when I get home from work, but in the meantime I'm going to hazard a guess that none of them come to the conclusion of "Holy crap, they really don't! Can you believe that? They totally don't!"
Totally, no. Several of them do come to the conclusion that "no, you're right, they pretty much don't" mentioning topics where they or their friends might have engaged in an activity/practice which was looked on with incredulity by their friends or family, or sometimes something which they have observed is true of an older generation but which does not hold among their own friends.
posted by Diablevert at 7:46 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Totally, no. Several of them do come to the conclusion that "no, you're right, they pretty much don't" mentioning topics where they or their friends might have engaged in an activity/practice which was looked on with incredulity by their friends or family, or sometimes something which they have observed is true of an older generation but which does not hold among their own friends.
posted by Diablevert at 7:46 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Winter sports is a strange one, I don't know any white people who ski either. I think it is an urban/non-urban divide. At least among the people I know, the ones that grew up in cities never had a chance to learn and it isn't something you just decide to do on a whim if you have to travel hundreds of miles and spent money on rentals and gear.
posted by Ad hominem at 7:56 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by Ad hominem at 7:56 AM on December 30, 2011
Anyway --- it's interesting. It seems to me that in the past couple years there has been a bit of a broadening if the palette, in terms of pop culture representations of blackness. Dunno if it's Kanye or Obama or what, but stuff like this or awkward black girl or TV on the Radio or the recent times pieces about the spate of black indie movies coming out this year --- put it all together and it seems like there's a bit of a shift in the zeitgeist.
Of course, even as I make this argument I can come up with other eras which had depictions of black middle class life --- paging Dr. Huxtable --- but on something like The Fresh Prince, Will was portrayed as more authentic, cooler than Carlton, while as that recent grantland piece on NBA fashion points out, now you've got LeBron dressing like Carlton.
2011: the year we realised black people could be uncool.
posted by Diablevert at 7:56 AM on December 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Of course, even as I make this argument I can come up with other eras which had depictions of black middle class life --- paging Dr. Huxtable --- but on something like The Fresh Prince, Will was portrayed as more authentic, cooler than Carlton, while as that recent grantland piece on NBA fashion points out, now you've got LeBron dressing like Carlton.
2011: the year we realised black people could be uncool.
posted by Diablevert at 7:56 AM on December 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Although the content and the presenters are interesting in themselves, I don't think the format is going anywhere. Reminds me of VH1 show where name-recognized spokespeople deliver a stream of expertise based on the fact that they were alive and conscious during a particular era.
posted by jsavimbi at 7:59 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by jsavimbi at 7:59 AM on December 30, 2011
Swimming episode, come on swimming episode!
Seriously, I grew up in the deep south as a white/native american with as many/more black friends than white and I'm tired of my fiance telling me that I'm being racist when I comment on something by saying something like "Yea, black people here really don't do/understand *given topic at hand*". I've had the discussion with my black friends before too, and yes I understand that black people here != black people in France/Africa/Canada/blah blah.
I never considered the nerd divide being an issue here. I guess it's because I was in the engineering field where most of the population, black or not, was nerd-ish in one way, shape, or form.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:59 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Seriously, I grew up in the deep south as a white/native american with as many/more black friends than white and I'm tired of my fiance telling me that I'm being racist when I comment on something by saying something like "Yea, black people here really don't do/understand *given topic at hand*". I've had the discussion with my black friends before too, and yes I understand that black people here != black people in France/Africa/Canada/blah blah.
I never considered the nerd divide being an issue here. I guess it's because I was in the engineering field where most of the population, black or not, was nerd-ish in one way, shape, or form.
posted by RolandOfEld at 7:59 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think that Carlton look started being somewhat cool with Farnsworth Bentley back when rappers started wearing pink and orange polos.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:02 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Ad hominem at 8:02 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I read one of the episode titles as "Black people don't...time travel" and was expecting it to be entirely about Martha Jones.
Winter sports is a strange one, I don't know any white people who ski either. I think it is an urban/non-urban divide. At least among the people I know, the ones that grew up in cities never had a chance to learn and it isn't something you just decide to do on a whim if you have to travel hundreds of miles and spent money on rentals and gear.
What? Plenty of urban people ski. In cities (and rural flat places), it's a rich-poor divide, at least in my experience (of being too poor to ski).
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:03 AM on December 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Winter sports is a strange one, I don't know any white people who ski either. I think it is an urban/non-urban divide. At least among the people I know, the ones that grew up in cities never had a chance to learn and it isn't something you just decide to do on a whim if you have to travel hundreds of miles and spent money on rentals and gear.
What? Plenty of urban people ski. In cities (and rural flat places), it's a rich-poor divide, at least in my experience (of being too poor to ski).
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:03 AM on December 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Ok, I accept rich urbanites ski.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:04 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by Ad hominem at 8:04 AM on December 30, 2011
In Finland, everyone skis.
posted by infini at 8:07 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 8:07 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
A young waitress friend at a chain burger joint has developed racial prejudices about tipping. No differences noted in white/black tipping, but she says Mexican and Arab families do not tip much. But she doesn't mind the Mexican-American families because they are so nice and never complain. However, when the Arabian families come in with shopping bags from stores where shoes cost hundreds of dollars and order her around and leave without tipping, she isn't so happy. I hate to pass on prejudicial remarks, because I like every Persian, Arab and North African person I have ever met, but perhaps they have a different tipping culture.
By the way, Black people do ski. It is an expensive sport, though, these days. Most of the skiers are from cities, based on chairlift conversations.
I have heard a lot of Black people say that "Black people don't like the cold," but, then, it is kind of a joke, and kind of not: about six million black folks moved from the South to the North between 1915-1970 in what Isabel Wilkerson calls The Great Migration.
posted by kozad at 8:09 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
By the way, Black people do ski. It is an expensive sport, though, these days. Most of the skiers are from cities, based on chairlift conversations.
I have heard a lot of Black people say that "Black people don't like the cold," but, then, it is kind of a joke, and kind of not: about six million black folks moved from the South to the North between 1915-1970 in what Isabel Wilkerson calls The Great Migration.
posted by kozad at 8:09 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
In Finland, everyone is insane. So, there's that.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:09 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:09 AM on December 30, 2011
In related news, not too many black people in Finland*.
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:13 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:13 AM on December 30, 2011
Since the consensus seems to be no one else is watching these, I'll boil down the jist of each video:
"Actually, it's kind of complicated."
posted by absalom at 8:18 AM on December 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
"Actually, it's kind of complicated."
posted by absalom at 8:18 AM on December 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ad hominem: "Ok, I accept rich urbanites ski."
My cousin married a black woman whose parents were a doctor and a chemist (i.e. rather well off). She apparently grew up skiing. At one family gathering before they had kids, she talked about putting together a couples' ski weekend to my (small town, grew up poor-ish) wife, and was as absolutely dumbfounded to discover that we don't ski as I would be to find someone in the first world who doesn't know what a toilet's for.
[Actually, I've been skiing once. With rich "friends" I met in college. I was left on the bunny slopes and summarily ignored all day, every day while they made movies in fresh powder on the back bowls. When the wife and I move out to Colorado in a few years, we figure on being the only people in the state who don't ski.]
posted by notsnot at 8:23 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
My cousin married a black woman whose parents were a doctor and a chemist (i.e. rather well off). She apparently grew up skiing. At one family gathering before they had kids, she talked about putting together a couples' ski weekend to my (small town, grew up poor-ish) wife, and was as absolutely dumbfounded to discover that we don't ski as I would be to find someone in the first world who doesn't know what a toilet's for.
[Actually, I've been skiing once. With rich "friends" I met in college. I was left on the bunny slopes and summarily ignored all day, every day while they made movies in fresh powder on the back bowls. When the wife and I move out to Colorado in a few years, we figure on being the only people in the state who don't ski.]
posted by notsnot at 8:23 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
And with relevance to the FPP, I've begun noticing elements of hip hop culture and slang emerge among certain ethnic minority groups elsewhere - such as in Singapore for example, where I've seen young men wear woollen caps (!!) but not so much in Africa itself (in terms of street style).
RolandofEld - person must not have been in downtown Helsinki, numbers are very low outside the urban center but that forum is weird. They count languages spoken, not ethnicity per se but here are reasonably accurate figures.
posted by infini at 8:25 AM on December 30, 2011
RolandofEld - person must not have been in downtown Helsinki, numbers are very low outside the urban center but that forum is weird. They count languages spoken, not ethnicity per se but here are reasonably accurate figures.
posted by infini at 8:25 AM on December 30, 2011
I think that Carlton look started being somewhat cool with Farnsworth Bentley back when rappers started wearing pink and orange polos.
This guy? Sharp-dressed man.
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:27 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
This guy? Sharp-dressed man.
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:27 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well Farnsworth Bentley was P. Diddy's valet and seemed omnipresent for a while maybe 10 years ago, he has had a couple shows on MTV and was seen in dozens of videos, he always wore a very sharp suit and certainly had a role in Diddy's transformation from Puffy to the tuxedo wearing Ciroc spokesperson we now today. Kanye was also noted for wearing traditional preppy clothes, like the pink and orange polos I mentioned. Some people credit him for bringing preppy fashions to hip-hop.
Also of note is the NBAdress code which discourages "street" fashion.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:44 AM on December 30, 2011
Also of note is the NBAdress code which discourages "street" fashion.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:44 AM on December 30, 2011
As for skiing, I went once for business. I promptly slid backwards down the hill while waiting for the lifts as everyone in my company pointed and laughed. They didn't realize I really meant it when I told them I couldn't ski.
posted by Ad hominem at 8:46 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by Ad hominem at 8:46 AM on December 30, 2011
The series is annoying because it's feeding into racist stereotype on the top level, i.e. black people are a monolithic group. Then the video reveals no, they aren't, which isn't surprising. As a black person, every single title of these damn videos does not echo me or my family.
Sure, the videos delve a little into the reasons why the stereotypes might exist, but the first two just skim the surface, while highlighting the fact that individual black people have different experiences.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:50 AM on December 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Sure, the videos delve a little into the reasons why the stereotypes might exist, but the first two just skim the surface, while highlighting the fact that individual black people have different experiences.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:50 AM on December 30, 2011 [4 favorites]
Things black folk don't do:
- take their birthday cards down after a reasonable time.
- stick to the £10.00 xmas gift limit.
- Tell you what to cook tonight, when you don't want to decide what to cook tonight.
- Agree to go see your family over xmas.
- Save any of the nice chocolates for you
It may be that my sample size is a bit small here, but I'm utterly convinced these stereotypes are gold. I plan on creating a slightly racist comedy show based on these and other observations.
posted by seanyboy at 8:52 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
- take their birthday cards down after a reasonable time.
- stick to the £10.00 xmas gift limit.
- Tell you what to cook tonight, when you don't want to decide what to cook tonight.
- Agree to go see your family over xmas.
- Save any of the nice chocolates for you
It may be that my sample size is a bit small here, but I'm utterly convinced these stereotypes are gold. I plan on creating a slightly racist comedy show based on these and other observations.
posted by seanyboy at 8:52 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well Farnsworth Bentley was P. Diddy's valet and seemed omnipresent for a while maybe 10 years ago, he has had a couple shows on MTV and was seen in dozens of videos, he always wore a very sharp suit
Well, you don't pick the name Farnsworth Bentley and then decide to wear dirty sweats.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:55 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well, you don't pick the name Farnsworth Bentley and then decide to wear dirty sweats.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:55 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
I and most of my friends ski. We are all urban. None of us is wealthy. In Europe it is perfectly simple to arrange a budget package ski trip to the Alps and elsewhere. People who have never been skiing are missing out on one of the most exhilarating experiences life has to offer.
That is all.
posted by Decani at 9:12 AM on December 30, 2011
That is all.
posted by Decani at 9:12 AM on December 30, 2011
I have heard a lot of Black people say that "Black people don't like the cold," but, then, it is kind of a joke, and kind of not: about six million black folks moved from the South to the North between 1915-1970 in what Isabel Wilkerson calls The Great Migration.
If I had to choose between institutionalized government-mandated oppression and the threat of lynching vs. a few months of freeze-your-balls-off weather, I'd be grabbing a shovel and a parka post-haste.
Out of the frying pan and into the freezer, so to speak.
posted by chara at 9:15 AM on December 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
If I had to choose between institutionalized government-mandated oppression and the threat of lynching vs. a few months of freeze-your-balls-off weather, I'd be grabbing a shovel and a parka post-haste.
Out of the frying pan and into the freezer, so to speak.
posted by chara at 9:15 AM on December 30, 2011 [6 favorites]
Diablevert: "2011: the year we realised black people could be uncool."
O rly?
posted by Splunge at 9:29 AM on December 30, 2011
O rly?
posted by Splunge at 9:29 AM on December 30, 2011
If I had to choose between institutionalized government-mandated oppression and the threat of lynching vs. a few months of freeze-your-balls-off weather, I'd be grabbing a shovel and a parka post-haste.
Out of the frying pan and into the freezer, so to speak.
Thus sayeth Finland's 10,000 strong Somali population
posted by infini at 9:29 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Out of the frying pan and into the freezer, so to speak.
Thus sayeth Finland's 10,000 strong Somali population
posted by infini at 9:29 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
OK, infini, you must be Finnish, and I have to say, if all Finns are insane, you pretty much keep it to yourselves. As a matter of fact, speaking of stereotypes, Northern Europeans in general, Scandinavians in particular, and even more especially, Finns, have a reputation for reticence. I spent two months there and everyone was incredibly nice, but not...umm...Italian.
posted by kozad at 9:42 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by kozad at 9:42 AM on December 30, 2011
Nah, but my spirit is Finnish and missing all my friends right now.
posted by infini at 9:48 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by infini at 9:48 AM on December 30, 2011
La première Etoile, a comedy about a French-Caribbean father who takes his family on holiday to an expensive ski resort to prove that he's committed to being a good dad. There's a scene that takes place in a beauty salon where French-Caribbean women who defend the right of black people to ski are accused of being "white inside" by French-African women.
posted by elgilito at 10:06 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by elgilito at 10:06 AM on December 30, 2011
It seems odd that the series seems at least somewhat aimed at busting stereotypes, or at least providing a greater context for them, and then completely lacks any sort of data point to give credence to any of the talking head opinions. On the tipping question, it seems like it would be nearly trivial to get some rough-draft data (if it hasn't been done already) of tips-vs-racial makeup at a spectrum of restaurants, and give a little concrete information there. Instead it's just the opinions of folks who, barring the one guy who actually owns some restaurants, have their only qualification towards the question as 'being black', and just say 'I dunno, I think so, some do or don't? Maybe?'
posted by FatherDagon at 10:20 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by FatherDagon at 10:20 AM on December 30, 2011
I hate to pass on prejudicial remarks...
Then don't.
posted by euphorb at 10:39 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
Then don't.
posted by euphorb at 10:39 AM on December 30, 2011 [2 favorites]
One thing I've seen "Black Folk do" in Detroit and the metro area for the past 20-plus years is graduating high school seniors wearing their caps (mortar boards) outside of the actual commencement ceremony. It's very common in late May/early June to see tables in area restaurants filled with black families in which one or more of the young diners is wearing a graduation cap. I remember going to Bob-Lo Island (a local amusement park) for years in early June and always seeing several large groups of black people (presumably students on a school trip) wearing shorts and tank tops and T-shirts plus their graduation caps. Perhaps this is unique to my area, but I've never seen white or Asian or other racial groups wear their caps en masse outside of commencement.
posted by Oriole Adams at 10:42 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by Oriole Adams at 10:42 AM on December 30, 2011
If you found the linked series interesting, here's a MeFi post that you might like: Swimming, or the lack of, in the Black American community.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:02 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:02 AM on December 30, 2011
I'm really enjoying these, but just so people know:
List of black hockey players.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:24 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
List of black hockey players.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:24 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
White people sure do like talking about black people.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 11:44 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 11:44 AM on December 30, 2011 [1 favorite]
My G/F is black and she is a waitress. She will be one of the first people to tell you that black people do not tip. We've talked about it several times because she'll come home from work and will complain that she had a large table of black customers and only gotten a handful of dollar bills. We've discussed the reasons and I go back to the concept that it is because of income. Then she points out that they can afford to dine out so they could afford to at least tip. Ultimately we agree that it isn't a class or race thing. It is really a cultural thing. Yes, there is a difference between white culture and black culture.
Oh, and she and her coworkers use that service industry joke where they get a table of black people and they call it a "Case of getting the Mondays" because everyone hates Mondays. She admits that it is a badly tinged phrase but she says she really feels that way.
posted by GavinR at 11:50 AM on December 30, 2011
Oh, and she and her coworkers use that service industry joke where they get a table of black people and they call it a "Case of getting the Mondays" because everyone hates Mondays. She admits that it is a badly tinged phrase but she says she really feels that way.
posted by GavinR at 11:50 AM on December 30, 2011
Oh, and she is one of those people that wants to overtip because of that.
posted by GavinR at 11:52 AM on December 30, 2011
posted by GavinR at 11:52 AM on December 30, 2011
That ski thing -- I'm white, love winter, love the snow, Scandinavian blood and all of that, but I have never had any interest, zero, zilch, prefer the summer Olympics to the winter Olympics. Part of it is the whole class thing. Like one of the guys says in the video, "It's a capital-intensive endeavor!" Where I grew up, skiing was something the rich people who wore polo shirts went off to Big Bear and Mammoth and Snow Valley to do -- and poor folks weren't welcome. Snow was up in the mountains and poor folks just weren't supposed to go there even if they could afford to.
Swimming episode, come on swimming episode!
It's covered sorta (a little) in the "don't do winter sports" video. Swimming, that is. Along with hiking, bungee jumping, etc.
Oh yeah, I can't swim either. Love the water, love it. Just can't swim worth shit, sure as hell not from lack of trying.
posted by blucevalo at 12:05 PM on December 30, 2011
Swimming episode, come on swimming episode!
It's covered sorta (a little) in the "don't do winter sports" video. Swimming, that is. Along with hiking, bungee jumping, etc.
Oh yeah, I can't swim either. Love the water, love it. Just can't swim worth shit, sure as hell not from lack of trying.
posted by blucevalo at 12:05 PM on December 30, 2011
Black folk don't just live in the USA.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 12:43 PM on December 30, 2011
posted by ethnomethodologist at 12:43 PM on December 30, 2011
Slight derail, but I had a moment like Louis CK did upon meeting a friend's girlfriend; she mentioned how she got suspended from facebook for "racist" comments, even though she's "totally not racist, all I said was 'black people don't tip'! I'm a waitress, and they really don't!"
I had no idea what to say in response.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 1:19 PM on December 30, 2011
I had no idea what to say in response.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 1:19 PM on December 30, 2011
Does this count for "black people doing winter sports"? (slyt)
No?
posted by gusandrews at 2:20 PM on December 30, 2011
No?
posted by gusandrews at 2:20 PM on December 30, 2011
Man I love this series. Great production values, great editing, great range of opinions and what appears at least to be different backgrounds under the broad umbrella of (American) black experience.
I appreciate Brandon Blatcher's critiques, but personally (and I'm coming from a white perspective here) I think there's value in this approach, by tacking stereotypes head-on, and seeing not just where they are wrong ("wrong" here meaning" "not universal" to "flat-out-wrong") but also hearing opinions on where those stereotypes might come from, from people within the community who aren't treating those stereotypes with judgment against the community, as well as with discussion (limited as of yet, but its there) of how those even those most seemingly benign stereotypes can hurt the community.
I also loved that the series always seemed to know what I was thinking and then have someone come out and say it better than I was saying it in my head. Except for one or two things:
1. Not all that many people do Yoga at all. I don't know the numbers (I agree that the series would do well to present them) but I've never thought that Yoga was stigmatized in the black community or that African-Americans were truly under-represented there. But then, none of the people I know do Yoga. And my current circle is a group of ethnically diverse yuppies with a lot of health-nuts in the mix. Then again, I take it from that video that it was inspired by Erica Robinson's Harlem Yoga studio, and they just took the "Black People Don't Do Yoga" thing as a jumping off point for that one, which is obviously fine.
2. On the winter sports thing, I don't feel like they touch on the cultural issues of cost as much as they could have. To put it another way, Skiing/Snowboarding is prohibitively expensive, but that's only half of the story.
I just got back today from a week in Colorado with my parents and my sister's family for the holidays. We were in Crested Butte, where I've spent nearly every Christmas of my life, and where y parents own a home. Well, actually two homes, one of which was purchased so that it wouldn't be built up and destroy the mountain view (and thus resale value) of the first home, and for which I'm currently the agent for rentals. The first few days of my visit involved us looking at a different home in town that they were considering buying (to replace where they are now) which everyone loved. My parents woke up in the middle of the night in a consensus that they had spent too much time making the current place into what they wanted, and so they wouldn't buy it (they had this exact same discussion last year, apparently.)
Here's the thing which really blew my mind (and I grew up in this family): The house involved was nearly $2 Million. And the cost was NEVER the issue under discussion. And my parents are not "rich folk" under the standards of home ownership in Crested Butte. And Crested Butte is a far far cry from Aspen in this regard. Basically, American Ski Resorts are Monte Carlo for people who don't like to gamble.
Oh, and even then, I felt guilty about taking my father's gift of lift tickets because they seemd so stupidly pricey.
So winter sports are stupid expensive, which means that most people of any race won't be able to afford them and still enjoy them, but I would guess there's a cultural thing where most black families who can afford them now are still well-informed by their cultural upbringing to not be that foolish with their money, whereas their white counterparts might be more likely to do so because in their communities it's simply part of keeping up with the Joneses.
Which brings me to another point. In Crested Butte it's almost a joke by now that everyone there is from Texas or Oklahoma. This makes sense once you know what's going on. My family got in fairly early, but they came to Crested Butte because friends from the neighborhood in Houston were going there. That, in turn, led others, and so on. And it's a very, very small town. Skiiing takes a long time to learn and become good enough to enjoy. In the meantime, white people have been moving their white neighbors to their ski towns for the winters so that they can spend the winters together around friends. I'm sure if they had black friends who were willing they'd be involved, but this process started in the 70's, s it's still mostly white folks, and in Crested Butte, White Folks from Texas and Oklahoma.
In other words, ski-culture is it's own thing, which started a little bit before African-American culture at large had the means and/or connections to be a part of it. Almost like a frat.
3. On my roundabout way home today I was hanging out and talking with a black man named Tony for about an hour and a half, mostly about current black culture (he's a student highly interested in the subject, and I had visited places in recent years doing legal work for largely black communities he hadn't met.) Black people travel. Whether they travel to certain places in Europe seems irrelevant to me. White people don't, by and large, travel to Africa, even to the tourist destinations.
Anyway, my thoughts might be fully uninformed, though I hope they aren't hurtful or wildly off the mark. I love this series and would like to see more of it.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:27 PM on December 30, 2011
I appreciate Brandon Blatcher's critiques, but personally (and I'm coming from a white perspective here) I think there's value in this approach, by tacking stereotypes head-on, and seeing not just where they are wrong ("wrong" here meaning" "not universal" to "flat-out-wrong") but also hearing opinions on where those stereotypes might come from, from people within the community who aren't treating those stereotypes with judgment against the community, as well as with discussion (limited as of yet, but its there) of how those even those most seemingly benign stereotypes can hurt the community.
I also loved that the series always seemed to know what I was thinking and then have someone come out and say it better than I was saying it in my head. Except for one or two things:
1. Not all that many people do Yoga at all. I don't know the numbers (I agree that the series would do well to present them) but I've never thought that Yoga was stigmatized in the black community or that African-Americans were truly under-represented there. But then, none of the people I know do Yoga. And my current circle is a group of ethnically diverse yuppies with a lot of health-nuts in the mix. Then again, I take it from that video that it was inspired by Erica Robinson's Harlem Yoga studio, and they just took the "Black People Don't Do Yoga" thing as a jumping off point for that one, which is obviously fine.
2. On the winter sports thing, I don't feel like they touch on the cultural issues of cost as much as they could have. To put it another way, Skiing/Snowboarding is prohibitively expensive, but that's only half of the story.
I just got back today from a week in Colorado with my parents and my sister's family for the holidays. We were in Crested Butte, where I've spent nearly every Christmas of my life, and where y parents own a home. Well, actually two homes, one of which was purchased so that it wouldn't be built up and destroy the mountain view (and thus resale value) of the first home, and for which I'm currently the agent for rentals. The first few days of my visit involved us looking at a different home in town that they were considering buying (to replace where they are now) which everyone loved. My parents woke up in the middle of the night in a consensus that they had spent too much time making the current place into what they wanted, and so they wouldn't buy it (they had this exact same discussion last year, apparently.)
Here's the thing which really blew my mind (and I grew up in this family): The house involved was nearly $2 Million. And the cost was NEVER the issue under discussion. And my parents are not "rich folk" under the standards of home ownership in Crested Butte. And Crested Butte is a far far cry from Aspen in this regard. Basically, American Ski Resorts are Monte Carlo for people who don't like to gamble.
Oh, and even then, I felt guilty about taking my father's gift of lift tickets because they seemd so stupidly pricey.
So winter sports are stupid expensive, which means that most people of any race won't be able to afford them and still enjoy them, but I would guess there's a cultural thing where most black families who can afford them now are still well-informed by their cultural upbringing to not be that foolish with their money, whereas their white counterparts might be more likely to do so because in their communities it's simply part of keeping up with the Joneses.
Which brings me to another point. In Crested Butte it's almost a joke by now that everyone there is from Texas or Oklahoma. This makes sense once you know what's going on. My family got in fairly early, but they came to Crested Butte because friends from the neighborhood in Houston were going there. That, in turn, led others, and so on. And it's a very, very small town. Skiiing takes a long time to learn and become good enough to enjoy. In the meantime, white people have been moving their white neighbors to their ski towns for the winters so that they can spend the winters together around friends. I'm sure if they had black friends who were willing they'd be involved, but this process started in the 70's, s it's still mostly white folks, and in Crested Butte, White Folks from Texas and Oklahoma.
In other words, ski-culture is it's own thing, which started a little bit before African-American culture at large had the means and/or connections to be a part of it. Almost like a frat.
3. On my roundabout way home today I was hanging out and talking with a black man named Tony for about an hour and a half, mostly about current black culture (he's a student highly interested in the subject, and I had visited places in recent years doing legal work for largely black communities he hadn't met.) Black people travel. Whether they travel to certain places in Europe seems irrelevant to me. White people don't, by and large, travel to Africa, even to the tourist destinations.
Anyway, my thoughts might be fully uninformed, though I hope they aren't hurtful or wildly off the mark. I love this series and would like to see more of it.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:27 PM on December 30, 2011
Oh, and another thing which I don't know enough to add insight to - I noticed for the first time this year a massive influx of Asians on the slopes. But I don't think I saw a single Black person or family the entire time I was in Crested Butte.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:35 PM on December 30, 2011
posted by Navelgazer at 6:35 PM on December 30, 2011
I have heard a lot of Black people say that "Black people don't like the cold," but, then, it is kind of a joke, and kind of not: about six million black folks moved from the South to the North between 1915-1970 in what Isabel Wilkerson calls The Great Migration.
Wait, people think that thing was about the weather?
posted by andoatnp at 6:46 PM on December 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
Wait, people think that thing was about the weather?
posted by andoatnp at 6:46 PM on December 30, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm really enjoying the series, but I think that the "black people don't..." title is a little misleading, it doesn't really convey that the stereotypes are explored as open questions.
I'm always confused by the "black people don't swim" thing just because it's at odds with my experience in largely in working class, lower middle class, and middle class neighborhoods. Plenty of black kids swimming at my week-long church camp south of Annapolis, among military families in Norfolk, and at public pool closest to my home in South Philly.
posted by desuetude at 10:19 PM on December 30, 2011
I'm always confused by the "black people don't swim" thing just because it's at odds with my experience in largely in working class, lower middle class, and middle class neighborhoods. Plenty of black kids swimming at my week-long church camp south of Annapolis, among military families in Norfolk, and at public pool closest to my home in South Philly.
posted by desuetude at 10:19 PM on December 30, 2011
As a white non-USAian, I just have to say, the US "tip is obligatory 15-20%, 25-30% if service is really good" thing is some bullshit. Fix your minimum wage.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:25 AM on December 31, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 1:25 AM on December 31, 2011 [4 favorites]
I love how "USAians" are expected to be culturally sensitive when traveling overseas, and are loudly derided when they are not, but it's totally fine for other nationalities to feel free to critique our cultural traditions, or even call them "bullshit".
Not tipping when you are aware that that is what is expected and that your server depends on it for their livelihood--now THAT is bullshit. Fix your attitude.
posted by parrot_person at 1:44 AM on December 31, 2011 [9 favorites]
Not tipping when you are aware that that is what is expected and that your server depends on it for their livelihood--now THAT is bullshit. Fix your attitude.
posted by parrot_person at 1:44 AM on December 31, 2011 [9 favorites]
I appreciate Brandon Blatcher's critiques,
I do too, but I'm also painfully aware how alive-and-thriving these stereotypes are, especially in geographical areas with an almost completely Anglo demographic. Something that complexifies the stereotype interestingly - showing that there are cultural bases in some cases, economic bases in others, complex interactions between those things, and plenty of individual variations on the theme - can be very helpful. If I hadn't spent the last decade or so living where people can grow up to young adults without ever encountering a black person except on TV or in the movies, I would probably be more irritated by it.
posted by Miko at 7:12 AM on December 31, 2011
I do too, but I'm also painfully aware how alive-and-thriving these stereotypes are, especially in geographical areas with an almost completely Anglo demographic. Something that complexifies the stereotype interestingly - showing that there are cultural bases in some cases, economic bases in others, complex interactions between those things, and plenty of individual variations on the theme - can be very helpful. If I hadn't spent the last decade or so living where people can grow up to young adults without ever encountering a black person except on TV or in the movies, I would probably be more irritated by it.
posted by Miko at 7:12 AM on December 31, 2011
The travel one is really weird, because Americans, regardless of race, don't travel to other countries very often. Less than a third of us even have a passport. I think that may be an American folk thing, not a black folk thing.
posted by craichead at 7:24 AM on December 31, 2011
posted by craichead at 7:24 AM on December 31, 2011
There's also a travel circuit that is historically black - certain destinations and events that have a long history of visitation from black people specifically. Just because many black people travel to different destinations than many white people doesn't mean they don't travel, it just means that their travel can be functionally invisible to those who don't happen to go to those places. I've wanted to do an FPP about this for years - I did one a long time ago on black beach resorts, I think.
posted by Miko at 8:13 AM on December 31, 2011
posted by Miko at 8:13 AM on December 31, 2011
but I'm also painfully aware how alive-and-thriving these stereotypes are, especially in geographical areas with an almost completely Anglo demographic.That's interesting, because it seemed to me that the audience for this thing was envisioned to be other black people. I mean, they didn't do person-on-the-street interviews with non-black people to find out what they thought black people didn't do. I thought this was more about internal group stereotypes than about external ones. But I could be wrong about that.
posted by craichead at 8:33 AM on December 31, 2011
I think it can be both. The stereotypes exist in a lot of populations, I just wanted to note that there are many places where stereotypes dominate because there are few black people living there.
posted by Miko at 8:38 AM on December 31, 2011
posted by Miko at 8:38 AM on December 31, 2011
"Black people don't day cock"
I had to send this to a friend of mine who calls it "the c word" which I find hysterical.
I also had the impression this was made by a group for a group. I run into people all the time who want to claim group identity as their reason for things: "We all do this." "Black people don't--" Stereotypes are all kinds of problematic, internalizing them, ascribing them to out groups, non-conformity, etc.
I'm hoping to do research into identity, group identity and personal identification. It's fascinating.
This thread and the swimming one are also fascinating, even in just the way people express themselves.
I run into two groups of people who think racism doesn't exist: white people surrounded by other white people and younger, somewhat oblivious people. They will both say outrageously racist/sexist/xist things, and unless you want to decide it's lesson time, what in the world do you do about the Dunning-Kruger effect?
People are endlessly surprising, in good ways, bad ways, sideways.
Fascinating.
The guy who is all "Oh, yeah, black people don't this." he kills me.
posted by provoliminal at 11:05 AM on December 31, 2011
I had to send this to a friend of mine who calls it "the c word" which I find hysterical.
I also had the impression this was made by a group for a group. I run into people all the time who want to claim group identity as their reason for things: "We all do this." "Black people don't--" Stereotypes are all kinds of problematic, internalizing them, ascribing them to out groups, non-conformity, etc.
I'm hoping to do research into identity, group identity and personal identification. It's fascinating.
This thread and the swimming one are also fascinating, even in just the way people express themselves.
I run into two groups of people who think racism doesn't exist: white people surrounded by other white people and younger, somewhat oblivious people. They will both say outrageously racist/sexist/xist things, and unless you want to decide it's lesson time, what in the world do you do about the Dunning-Kruger effect?
People are endlessly surprising, in good ways, bad ways, sideways.
Fascinating.
The guy who is all "Oh, yeah, black people don't this." he kills me.
posted by provoliminal at 11:05 AM on December 31, 2011
Ah, typos, typos. It's not even booze or lack of coffee, it's carelessness. All my people do this.
posted by provoliminal at 11:07 AM on December 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by provoliminal at 11:07 AM on December 31, 2011 [1 favorite]
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posted by magstheaxe at 7:01 AM on December 30, 2011