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"Today, my daughter is getting a dose of tough love."
February 10, 2012 9:04 AM   Subscribe

"My daughter thought it would be funny/rebellious/cool to post on her Facebook wall just how upset she was and how unfair her life here is; how we work her too hard with chores, never pay her for chores, and just in general make her life difficult. She chose to share this with the entire world on Facebook and block her parents from seeing it. Well, umm... she failed. As of the end of this video, she won't have to worry anymore about posting inappropriate things on Facebook..." (youtube video, contains cursing) Background. Original thread on Facebook.
posted by zarq (278 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite

 
Wow....
posted by magstheaxe at 9:08 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


I stopped at the creepy overbearing drama part, which was like, 30 seconds in.
posted by odinsdream at 9:09 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Ah. Verbal degradation and public humiliation punctuated with a firearm. Worlds Greatest Dad.
posted by Ululator at 9:09 AM on February 10, 2012 [31 favorites]


Well, he sure showed her how to deal with someone who calls you out publicly: throw a tantrum on the internet!

I am sure this will not backfire in any way whatsoever.
posted by mightygodking at 9:09 AM on February 10, 2012 [42 favorites]


Imagine my surprise that the two of them are related.
posted by aught at 9:10 AM on February 10, 2012 [15 favorites]


It's good to know that if I ever need to take out a rogue laptop, exploding hollow points will do the trick.
posted by polywomp at 9:10 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


Tough Love is an oxymoron.
posted by evilmidnightbomberwhatbombsatmidnight at 9:11 AM on February 10, 2012 [10 favorites]


Why did he just, you know, sell the laptop? Wipe the hard drive and put it on eBay or Craigs List or something?

Then he would have had the pleasure of watching his daughter scream in impotent rage as strangers sought to buy. And he would have some cash at the end of it all.
posted by magstheaxe at 9:11 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


I hope that man gets help with his issues.
posted by atrazine at 9:12 AM on February 10, 2012 [15 favorites]


If its not staged, and it could very well be staged, then I am shocked that overly dramatic, histrionic, outburst prone parents have overly dramatic, histrionic, outburst prone kids.
posted by The Whelk at 9:12 AM on February 10, 2012 [45 favorites]


the passive aggressive internet transgression cycle should have stopped with the adult, but apparently there aren't any in this family.
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 9:13 AM on February 10, 2012 [27 favorites]


You know, some people
don't take no shit!
maybe if they did
they'd have half a brain left!
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:15 AM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


This is his followup post, available on his Facebook profile.
"For those that wondered, commented, criticized, and just in general wanted to know:

My daughter came through it fine.

Yes, she's in trouble, and yes she's grounded, but that doesn't mean every moment of her life has to be miserable. She's going to come to terms with the changes that will be present for a while; no TV privileges, no Internet, etc.

In the meantime, once the initial anger passed, she sat with me reviewing some of the comments that have come in via Facebook and YouTube. One person even suggested collecting the shell casings and auctioning them on eBay. I said I’d do it if it would help contribute to her college fund! When I told her about it, she thought a minute, got a funny calculating expression on her face and said, “in that case you should shoot my phone too. We can use more bullets and I’ll go half-sies with ya on it! It’s not like I’m going to need it any time soon. And I can use the money we get to buy a new one.”

While the whole point of this story isn’t funny, what is funny to me is how weak some people out there think kids are. Our kids are as strong as we help them to be. My daughter took a horrible day in her life, had her crying fit, then got over it, accepted her punishment, and hasn’t let it (or people’s comments) destroy her strength. I don’t get any credit for that. She’s strong and able to overcome almost anything life throws at her.

Since this unsuspectingly threw her into the limelight much more strongly than either of us intended, I asked her if she wanted to make her own response video, and told her I’d let her do it if she wanted to. She doesn’t like being in front of the camera, so she declined, but I’ve told her if she wants to write a response or post a video response, I’d be OK with it. It’s only fair considering the viral nature of the whole thing. So far she’s not really interested. Quite frankly it seems she’s gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has. If that changes I’ll post it here."

posted by zarq at 9:15 AM on February 10, 2012 [16 favorites]


"Bullet through your..." Me: "!!!!?!?!?!?!?!" "...laptop." Me: "Whew."
posted by biochemist at 9:15 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


That's one of those things that probably sounded real good when he thought it up, but deosn't play so well in the real world.
posted by Curious Artificer at 9:15 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


OK, so, a teenager acts like a teenager and her father responds by acting even less mature than his daughter? Yeah, clearly he is the father of the year.

I cannot even fathom why people think that he is some kind of folkloric hero to annoyed parents everywhere.
posted by asnider at 9:16 AM on February 10, 2012 [16 favorites]


If that guy's in IT, then I hope everyone who he supports or works with is very nice to him.
posted by Chuffy at 9:16 AM on February 10, 2012 [10 favorites]


Figured this would be up here.

I get that dude is calling out daughter on her bullshit. More power to him--he doesn't really communicate the right and wrong of her position well, but it's important to call out your kids on their bullshit. However:

1) I'm reminded of that old anti-drug commercial where Dad confronts Son with Son's box of pot, and asks him where he got this, and Son says, "I learned it from you, alright!? I learned it from watching you!!" Can't imagine where this girl learned to express her anger in public, melodramatic tantrums...

2) Masturbating with your gun on the internet doesn't make you tough, or a good father. It makes you a jackass. Were you the father of one of my students, I'd report your ass. Were I one of your clients in your IT work, I'd drop you immediately. Were you one of my employees, I'd find any workable reason to fire you and get you away from my other employees.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:17 AM on February 10, 2012 [39 favorites]


Immature, yes, self-dramatizing, yes, entertaining, yes, but hardly inhumane.
posted by fraxil at 9:18 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


"im 23 and i whole heartedly belive in this video and for the people disagreeing your are what made jersey shore and other abominations that make this great country a joke to other countries"

im 12 and what is this
posted by griphus at 9:18 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


This guy ain't no role model. Yup, when you get angry just get out your gun and shoot up some shit. That will fix things. He has some serious anger management issues and rather than teach his daughter a lesson he has just modeled some very inappropriate behavior.
posted by caddis at 9:18 AM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


Nice follow-up post. 'course, if I had a dad waving his gun around, I'd probably say whatever I had to in order to make him happy, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:18 AM on February 10, 2012 [12 favorites]


Oh man, I came across this video elsewhere yesterday and the comments were all praising it. I got about 30 seconds in and was like...when does this turn not-creepy and weird? I'm glad some rational people have watched it for me. I didn't even know about the gun. Jeepers.
posted by DU at 9:20 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


Can't imagine where this girl learned to express her anger in public, melodramatic tantrums...

exactly.....
posted by caddis at 9:20 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


Intimidating your child with a firearm seems like a great way to force compliance. WTG Pops, I can't wait to see how your daughter reacts to the tiniest little bit of freedom she has when she goes off to college.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 9:22 AM on February 10, 2012 [7 favorites]


Didn't see this before. There's another follow-up post: "HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really."
posted by zarq at 9:22 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


I started watching it and got really uncomfortable, like I was peering in on some massive family drama that I just wanted no part of. Then I skipped forward to the laptop execution and felt sad. When I get mad at my future hypothetical children I'll just make passive-aggressive webcomics about it instead, I think.
posted by Monster_Zero at 9:22 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


Also, if I were this dude's daughter, I would post a video of me shooting his gun with another, larger gun.
posted by griphus at 9:22 AM on February 10, 2012 [76 favorites]


Quite frankly it seems she’s gotten bored of it much faster than the general public has.

I think that's the most significant sentence in this entire thread.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:23 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


I'd also like to add that I'm SHOCKED that this man is divorced!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 9:23 AM on February 10, 2012 [12 favorites]


Holy Toledo! I've been pretty mad at my kid and said and done stuff that in retrospect was damn foolish but wow ... that man is a nut.
posted by Allee Katze at 9:23 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


My wife showed me this video over coffee this morning. Our kid was eating breakfast in the other room (the ungrateful little 4 year old . . .).

I had a couple responses:
1. That guy works in IT?
2. "Exploding hollow points" - Bwaa haa haa!
2. I learned this from the teacher with whom I student-taught. We all can benefit from examples of people doing things poorly as well as doing them well. I learned from this guy. I learned that I am not an impulsive dickwad and therefore am probably not going to end up in the same situation as him.

And yeah, I remember being a 15 year old. If I didn't have a venue to criticize my parents I probably would have been an even worse kid. A decent parent would have let this slide off them for being what it is, venting. This is the stuff you pretend not to see so when something serious rolls around you can have a rational response to it.
posted by Seamus at 9:24 AM on February 10, 2012 [8 favorites]


"My daughter came through it fine."

"Also, my wife understands that when I punch her for not doing the dishes, it's only because I love her. After the last time I smacked her around, we talked and she had a good cry and she hugged me."

'cause, you know, people in abusive relationships NEVER have moments of reconciliation with their abuser that only make the abuser feel vindicated...
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:25 AM on February 10, 2012 [70 favorites]


Two thoughts:
1) I'm worried this guy is going to become some sort of conservative hero in the vein of Joe The Plumber, and wind up getting a stint on talk radio and a speaking slot at the Republican convention. Ugh. "You know what I'd do to someone who tries to take away my Constitution?"

2) I really hope this young lady has a cool aunt or uncle or older cousin or someone who can explain that sometimes parents are really terrible, but that she doesn't have to put up with that for *too* much longer and that lots of people with crap parents wind up turning out just fine. Yay for therapy and cool older family members.

posted by jsr1138 at 9:27 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


You know. If I was a shameless opportunist I would start a presidental draft for this guy, take up a collection and start selling merch right now. This guy has superpac written all over him.

This is the Joe The Plumberof 2012
posted by Ad hominem at 9:28 AM on February 10, 2012


Didn't see this before. There's another follow-up post: "HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really."

At least that part's funny.
posted by straight at 9:30 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm frankly shocked by how upset y'all are by the firearm content. Did he threaten his child with a gun? No. Did he do anything with the gun that he couldn't have done with a hammer? No. The gun was just the most entertaining way to make the point.

A few weeks ago my 3 year old threw a tantrum when we told him it was time for bed. I took his stuffed puppy (stupidly named "tiger") outside and executed it with a Remington 870 in the back yard. Bird shot, FWIW. He cried and cried and cried and I told him next time it'd be something he really loved. Big Bear. Maybe even Mr. Snuffy Pig.

The next day he was totally fine. In fact he was *unusually* quiet.

Some parents "count to three" before administering punishment. They're a bunch of bitches. From now on the sound of me chambering a round is all it's going to take to keep him in line.
posted by pjaust at 9:30 AM on February 10, 2012 [73 favorites]


I'm worried this guy is going to become some sort of conservative hero in the vein of Joe The Plumber, and wind up getting a stint on talk radio and a speaking slot at the Republican convention.

Don't worry, if that happens his daughter will just end up gestating a Palin out of wedlock.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 9:31 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Attention Media Outlets:

While we appreciate the interest you're all putting forth to get in touch with us regarding the video, we're not going to go on your talk show, not going to call in to your radio show, and not going to be in your TV mini-series.

Some of you think I made an acceptable parenting decision and others think I didn't. However, I can't think of any way myself or my daughter can respond to a media outlet that won't be twisted out of context. The Dallas news TV news already showed that in their brief 5 minute interview with the psychologist.

Additionally, there's absolutely NO way I'm going to send my child the message that it's OK to gain from something like this. It would send her a message that it's OK to profit at the expense of someone else's embarrassment or misfortune and that's now how I was raised, nor how she has been raised.

So I say thank you from all of us. If we have anything to say, we'll say it here on Facebook, and we'll say it publicly, but we won't say it to a microphone or a camera. There are too many other REAL issues out there that could use this attention you're giving us. My daughter isn't hurt, emotionally scarred, or otherwise damaged, but that kind of publicity has never seemed to be to have a positive effect on any child or family.

If you're a news outlet that wants to ask us a question, feel free to so via email. I'm sure by now my email address is easy enough to find. It might take me awhile to get to a response because I'd have to sort through the "Die you bastard" emails to find it, but we will respond if its something that we feel merits it. Otherwise, sorry... no interviews, no talk shows, no call-ins.

If we respond to anything, it will be on here, and it will be in a way that our words can't be misconstrued or edited for appeal to specific audience or shock value.

Now, I'm going to try to get to work for the day.

Best of luck to all of you out there... and PLEASE give my phone a break. *
posted by ericb at 9:31 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


I don't know where this guy lives, but this would be reportable to child protection here in BC. Surely someone will report him? His behaviour is violent and emotionally abusive. He used a firearm to intimidate his child.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 9:32 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


It wasn't any parent-hacking, computer spying, or monitoring of any kind.. the dog actually ratted her out completely by accident.

I call bull on this. He says right in the video that he was installing software on her computer when he figured it all out.
posted by DU at 9:32 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm frankly shocked by how upset y'all are by the firearm content. Did he threaten his child with a gun? No. Did he do anything with the gun that he couldn't have done with a hammer? No. The gun was just the most entertaining way to make the point.

Who said anything about the gun? It wasn't the means, it was the ends folks are bitching about!
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 9:32 AM on February 10, 2012


While we appreciate the interest you're all putting forth to get in touch with us regarding the video, we're not going to go on your talk show, not going to call in to your radio show, and not going to be in your TV mini-series.


I knew it, a man of principal Gun Dad/Paul 2012!!
posted by Ad hominem at 9:33 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


My CMS didn't save my 4 hours worth of changes and keeps stalling.

I could use this guy right about now.
posted by stormpooper at 9:33 AM on February 10, 2012


Greg_Ace: " I think that's the most significant sentence in this entire thread."

I agree.

We learn what normal is from the environments we grow up in. Not to say this guy is abusing his kids, but if he's intimidating his daughter by shooting a gun at her things on video, then it seems likely to me (as someone who grew up in an abusive home) that he's intimidating her in other ways. Her reaction says she thinks his behavior is normal, and I believe that's very telling.
posted by zarq at 9:35 AM on February 10, 2012 [10 favorites]


I'm frankly shocked by how upset y'all are by the firearm content. Did he threaten his child with a gun? No. Did he do anything with the gun that he couldn't have done with a hammer? No. The gun was just the most entertaining way to make the point.

A few weeks ago my 3 year old threw a tantrum when we told him it was time for bed. I took his stuffed puppy (stupidly named "tiger") outside and executed it with a Remington 870 in the back yard. Bird shot, FWIW. He cried and cried and cried and I told him next time it'd be something he really loved. Big Bear. Maybe even Mr. Snuffy Pig.


I am really, no joke, disturbed by this comment. That is some seriously fucked up shit.
posted by odinsdream at 9:35 AM on February 10, 2012 [18 favorites]


pjaust: "I'm frankly shocked by how upset y'all are by the firearm content. Did he threaten his child with a gun? No. Did he do anything with the gun that he couldn't have done with a hammer? No. The gun was just the most entertaining way to make the point.

A few weeks ago my 3 year old threw a tantrum when we told him it was time for bed. I took his stuffed puppy (stupidly named "tiger") outside and executed it with a Remington 870 in the back yard. Bird shot, FWIW. He cried and cried and cried and I told him next time it'd be something he really loved. Big Bear. Maybe even Mr. Snuffy Pig.

The next day he was totally fine. In fact he was *unusually* quiet.

Some parents "count to three" before administering punishment. They're a bunch of bitches. From now on the sound of me chambering a round is all it's going to take to keep him in line.
"

Not funny.
posted by zarq at 9:37 AM on February 10, 2012 [8 favorites]


Who knew Bobcat Goldthwait's movie was a documentary?
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:37 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think maybe it was HAMBURGER?
posted by stinkycheese at 9:37 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


I live in the hope that pjaust was making a joke. It is a pretty funny joke, but the beginning is played a little too straight for it to be clear.
posted by winna at 9:37 AM on February 10, 2012


Some parents "count to three" before administering punishment. They're a bunch of bitches. From now on the sound of me chambering a round is all it's going to take to keep him in line.

There are internet trolls, and then there are Gods. You, sir, are a God.
posted by Curious Artificer at 9:37 AM on February 10, 2012 [29 favorites]


From now on the sound of me chambering a round is all it's going to take to keep him in line.

notsureifserious.jpg
posted by lord_wolf at 9:38 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Not funny.

No humor intended.
posted by pjaust at 9:38 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I can't fathom people who don't understand how awful this is. Just because it's Facebook and Youtube people think it's hilarious. This would be like bugger your kids' phone to listen on their conversations with their friends, or picking the lock of a locked diary. And then burning the diary or taking the phone becuase you don't like what the kid says.

Teenagers need and should have independent outlets for their thoughts and feelings. And adults are supposed to have the maturity to understand that, an not be personally offended by the words of an upset teenager.

Father of the year here puts too much importance on what his daughter says and way too little on her growth and development.
posted by spaltavian at 9:38 AM on February 10, 2012 [8 favorites]


"I am really, no joke, disturbed by this comment. That is some seriously fucked up shit."

It can be difficult to differentiate irony from reality in a world where an angry dad posts a Facebook video of himself shooting his daughter's computer because she, you know, complained about him to other people.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:38 AM on February 10, 2012 [8 favorites]


No humor intended.

Faze? Have you returned to us who were made forlorn by your departure? Oh frabjous day!
posted by winna at 9:39 AM on February 10, 2012


Some parents "count to three" before administering punishment. They're a bunch of bitches. From now on the sound of me chambering a round is all it's going to take to keep him in line.

That and the sound of a sizzling hamburger is all any kid ever needs!
posted by Floydd at 9:40 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


Teenagers need and should have independent outlets for their thoughts and feelings.

Teenagers need to learn that Facebook can never be that sort of outlet. (Preferably without making firearms part of the lesson.)
posted by straight at 9:40 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


My teenage son sent me this link just a little while ago, and I instantly felt better about myself as a parent! Thanks, son--I love you, and let's try not to get Internet FamousTM.
posted by drlith at 9:41 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


pjaust: " No humor intended."

Then I'm also seriously disturbed by your comment.
posted by zarq at 9:42 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


Teenagers need and should have independent outlets for their thoughts and feelings. And adults are supposed to have the maturity to understand that, an not be personally offended by the words of an upset teenager.

That's what's changed in the last twenty years though - the permanence of the outlet for those feelings, and the audience they receive. It's not really like overhearing your child insult you on the phone to their friend.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:43 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


pjaust, if you're not trolling, then, yes, you are abusive. You're not parenting, your intimidating. It's one thing to be afraid of consequences, but you're actually attacking your child's sense of security. Kids need to learn the world isn't fair, but you're teaching your kind that it's anarchic, petty and cruel. Becuase that's what you are.

You're kid isn't well-behaved. He's scared. How long do you think you can be scary to him? When he's old enough that your faux hyper-masculinity isn't enough to keep in line, what are you going to do?

What are you going to do when he decides that he might as well try to beat the hell out of you, because, that's the way the world apparently works, right? Are you going to reach for that gun again?
posted by spaltavian at 9:43 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


I guess when you have a hammer everything loos like a target.
posted by The Whelk at 9:44 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


"My response to the Dallas Fox affiliate on their news headline. You can read the headline by clicking the link below.

I've made it a point of not responding to news or media thus far, but I'm going to reply to a few specific issues mentioned from the news anchors:

First, let me say Thanks for not making me out as a TOTAL villain, though you cut-together enough footage sequences to make it seem that way in segments...

It was an emotional response: Yes ma’am it was an emotional response. I raised my children to never use that kind of language, especially in a public place like that. There were so many vulgarities… I don’t even know where to start. She was mad and I get that, but there are way to talk about things without resorting to that kind of language.

Secondly, and I’ve said this on Facebook as well, but I’m sure it will get lost in the flotsam of comments out there; I shouldn’t have said the word “ass.” I’ll agree that wasn’t a good example of me as a father. I had been reading that post again and again for about an hour, sometimes in tears, other times so mad my hands were shaking and I was trying very hard to be civil in my message. I slipped in that and said a word I shouldn’t have. I deserve a little backlash for that, no doubt.

In response to Dr Fletcher’s comments:

Fifteen year olds don’t the social maturity to know what the consequence might be? I learned at about age 3 what good words were.. and what bad word were. I learned what I should say, and what I shouldn’t say. Those lessons were reinforced throughout my life as a pre-teen, teenager, and later into adulthood. I think it’s safe to assume we’ve attempted to instill in her the values that should make it obvious to ANY 15-year old that neither the content, nor its publication to the world at large was acceptable for any child, or even any adult for that matter.

The punishment wasn’t natural or logical?

She’s known the rules for Facebook ever since she was allowed to have an account. She’s broken them from time to time, sometimes by accident, sometimes as a way of stretching her boundaries to see just how firm the boundaries were. This was neither. Her post was WAY over the top.

The Dr mentioned she “doesn’t really know what my daughter will learn from this consequence.”

I hoped that would be self-explanatory, but I guess you can’t see that without knowing the rest of the story. The last time she did something completely inappropriate, she was grounded from the Internet for three months. The very day she got it back we had a nice long amicable talk about what was and was not acceptable and that I wanted her to have a chance to prove she was responsible enough to utilize the internet unsupervised… by exercising her renewed freedom in a responsible way. The point of this being that proving you can be trusted to be responsible in one venue can lead to increased freedoms in other venues. I ended that conversation with a warning. I told her if no uncertain terms that we had already taken it away from her once. The next time, there wouldn’t be the same chance. If it happened again, “I’ll put a bullet through it.”

The "This one's from your mom" comment:

Before I made the video this week, I called my wife at her office, mostly in tears. The first words out of my mouth were “Please convince me not to put a bullet through Hannah’s laptop.” She knew something was wrong and asked me to be sensible and tell her what happened. Instead I began reading her the Facebook post our daughter made. She let me get to the end of the post, said “I’m sorry honey” and then said “put one in it for me while you’re at it”… so I did.

Contradiction in Terms?

No I don’t think so. Yes I told my daughter not to air that kind of material on Facebook because it was hurtful to other people. It embarrassed them. It caused them to feel humiliated, especially our very very good friend, who is NOT a cleaning lady by any stretch of the imagination!

Instead, I simply turned the tables and let her be on the receiving end of something and see how it made her feel. You mentioned not embellishing it, not sensationalizing it. I didn’t. I read exactly what she put out there for the world to see, in her own words. Then I added a few of my own words to it.

And then, yes, I shot it full of holes. Would I have received the same viral attention if I’d used it as a dog toy, hit it with a hammer, drove over it with the truck, or simply thrown it away? I’m not sure. But the point is that her parents told her “If it happens again, I’ll put a bullet through it.”

So, rather than let her push that particular boundary any further, I did absolutely no more and no less than I promised I’d do. Do I regret doing it? No. Do I regret keeping it on Facebook long enough to cause this stir? Yes. However at this time I feel that if I took the post or the video down, I'd just make it appear that we're running in shame from it, and we're not.

Truthfully though the social attention has helped her and I both deal with it. We had our discussion about it after she returned home from school. We set the ground rules for her punishment, and then I let her read some of the comments on Facebook with me at my computer. At first it was upsetting. Then as we read it became less so, eventually funny to both of us. At the end, she was amazed that other people had such amazingly strong reactions. Some said she’d grow up to be a stripper. Others that she’d get pregnant and become drug addicted because of the emotional damage. She actually asked me to go on Facebook and ask if there was anything else the victim of a laptop-homicide could do besides stripping because all the posts seem to mention that particular job and she wasn’t so keen on that one.

So in the end, she’s fine. My Facebook wall will never be the same again, and we’ll be OK as a family and she’ll grow up happy, healthy, and have everything she needs, but not everything she wants. And I absolutely guarantee she’ll never doubt my resolve to follow-through on a consequence again."
posted by ericb at 9:44 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think what pjaust means is that the comment was to make a point - a really scary, not remotely point.

Using violence and fire arm intimidation to destroy the cherished belonging of a teen is not all that different from destroying a 3yo's toy.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 9:44 AM on February 10, 2012 [13 favorites]


Foul language on the internet: Bad
Firearms to express anger: A-ok!

Got it! Thanks Father of The Year!
posted by Big_B at 9:47 AM on February 10, 2012 [11 favorites]


*not remotely funny
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 9:47 AM on February 10, 2012


I think the only point made by shooting a laptop, that you almost certainly paid for, is that you are not a very clever person.
posted by lrobertjones at 9:49 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


pjaust is joking. C'mon, "the sound of me chambering a round is all it's going to take to keep him in line" ? Total hamburger.

As for this father, while he may have had the right to shoot up a laptop that he gave her in the first place, it doesn't teach the right kind of lessons. It takes something that wasn't a big deal (another kid complaining on Facebook) and makes it into a Big Important Lesson. This is how screwed up notions of honor and reputation get started.
posted by Kevin Street at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2012 [8 favorites]


"I can't fathom people who don't understand how awful this is."

Many American parents, especially conservatives, think of their children like miniature slaves. Disrespect is perhaps the most serious cardinal sin because it undermines their authority, which is paramount.

More generously, what's often happening is that fear for a child's welfare causes parents to become more and more controlling, and in adolescence, less and less effectively, which creates a vicious cycle for some of increasing insecurity and acting out, by both child and parent. Such parents feel intuitively that if their children would "do as they say" and "respect them", then all would be well.

"It's not really like overhearing your child insult you on the phone to their friend."

Sure it is. The daughter explicitly excluded her father from the interaction. This wasn't any of his business. If she had posted it with the intention that he see it, that would have been a deliberate provocation and a very different sort of thing. What bugs this guy more than anything is that she's saying things bad about him that he has no control over and which he may not be aware of. That's a reality for all parents, he's not special. Except that he's gone out of his way to make it clear that he Sees All and will punish her for any offense he ever takes when she's "disrespectful". In this he's not doing anything much different than many an authoritarian parent has done in the past.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2012 [23 favorites]


this is none of my business
posted by philip-random at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


Clearly the only way this guy is gonna learn a lesson is if someone takes his gun out back and shoots it.
posted by Spatch at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


Yes ma’am it was an emotional response. I raised my children to never use that kind of language, especially in a public place like that. There were so many vulgarities… I don’t even know where to start. She was mad and I get that, but there are way to talk about things without resorting to that kind of language.



He shoots up a laptop in front of his daughter, and he's worried about language?
posted by magstheaxe at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


There's something about going into a child's room, taking something that belongs to her and that she values, and publicly executing it, that's a little too close to "I AM SHOOTING YOU BY PROXY" for me to ever be comfortable with.
posted by Shepherd at 9:50 AM on February 10, 2012 [57 favorites]


If you're angry about your dwinidling finances, you should shoot your wallet. That'll show em.
posted by The Whelk at 9:51 AM on February 10, 2012


Look, there are people out there who would earnestly write this:

"Some parents 'count to three' before administering punishment. They're a bunch of bitches. From now on the sound of me chambering a round is all it's going to take to keep him in line."

...but they're not likely to do so on MetaFilter. I mean, really, folks.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:53 AM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


Had I ever said anything remotely like what she posted to Facebook, I wouldn't have been able to sit down properly for at least a week after my mother got through with the spanking - and I would have deserved every bit of it.

I see people saying "She was just having teenage angst" - while I may have had plenty of that growing up, one thing I did NOT do was ever disrespect my parents, elders, or other relatives.
posted by mrbill at 9:57 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


Holy shit. I don't care how frustrated you are with your kid, destroying property and implying violence are not appropriate responses. He used a handgun (which unlike hunting rifles or other things, are p much exclusively used on people) equipped with hollowpoint bullets (bullets designed to be as deadly as possible) in a video of him punishing his daughter by destroying something that he was going to charge her to replace, and then uploaded that video to her facebook. That is not tough love. That’s emotionally abusive to a daughter that has no power in this situation AND lives with him.

Ok, so the dad feels that she doesn't respect him... well, when he invades her privacy, undermines what little personal agency she has, and doesn’t have basic trust is that really a surprise? If she write up these big long posts full of frustration over her chores it'd be reasonable to see that it's because she doesn't feel that her contributions are valued or appreciated, or doesn't see how what she is doing is helping any.

Ok, she may have written a long rant that came off as frustrated, but for fuck's safe, a tennager's life is nothing BUT frustration. Teens are expected to behave like adults or live up to adult ideals, but they don't have any of the agency an adult has. If doesn't likehow is daughter behaves, he needs to take a look at where she learned that behavior. No one is born knowing how to make decisions for themselves. No one is born knowing how to be mature. Those are both things that you need to LEARN. And kids learn from what they see parents do. Could it possibly be she calls the woman "the cleaning lady" because that's how she sees her being treated?

Kids aren’t born spoiled, it's learned and reinforced from parents. You reap what you sow, and because he’s upset he responds with aggression and humilation across the internet AND posts the video on her facebook too, so I guess that's also intimidation. If he think his daughter is spoiled or unappreciative, has he been doing anything to communicate the real value of what she has and should be grateful for? When you think about it, asking for payment for work isn't a bridge too far-- that's kind of the basic underpinnings of capitalism. A better way to communicate it rather than acting like she's crazy could have been talking about costs for the food, house, or whatever and what her "share" would come to be... since she, as a 15-year old, doesn't have economic agency of her own, you could explain how the chores are a necessary way of covering that or something.

The dad's derisiveness over her feeling frustrated at being told to get a job all the time... at 15, she can't legally get most types of work. has she been educated as to what economic opportunities are available to her? Oh, so you took her to apply to some places? Did you makre the places would accept underage workers? Did you show or teach her how to fill out these applications? Did you teach her on how to fill out applications so that she'd put her best foot forward? As a father and as her [arent, that is pretty much your goddamned job.

"When I was your age I’d moved out of the house, lived on my own, went to college while in high school, worked two jobs, was a volunteer fireman..." blah blah blah. So this incredible work ethic you had didn't get passed on to your kids HOW, then? PLus, the father grew up in a different economy and had a huge advantage just by being a man. So her dad is throwing static for her daughter having the tememrity to not be in the same conditions and sure as hell for not having the same level of input?

Jesus, all his daughter was doing was what teenagers-- finding an out amongst her friends to vent about her life privately... and now she doesn't even have that. Seriously, I hope she finds a way to get the hell out of where she's at and learns some actual life skills.

Also, Mr. IT Cowboy is shooting off a gun with hollowpoint bullets in a residential area. Shooting a gun in a residential area, destroying property, intimidation and emotional abuse and threatening, NONE of that are anything to crow about.
posted by ShawnStruck at 9:59 AM on February 10, 2012 [47 favorites]


Ivan Fyodorovich: " ...but they're not likely to do so on MetaFilter. I mean, really, folks."

I find it useful to accept people at their word, and assume they are engaging in good faith.
posted by zarq at 9:59 AM on February 10, 2012


So he had rules about internet use, which the daughter broke, was somehow punished for, and then broke again and -- horrors -- tried to hide the usage. This was pretty stupid of her, though also fairly normal. "You expect me to empty the dishwasher and clean my own laundry. I'm not your slave! What else do you have a housekeeper for?" is pretty common and obnoxious entitled/privileged teenager talk (stupid to post on facebook instead of doing what we used to do, which is bitching to friends in a nice uncatchable medium, but as a rule teenagers do that sort of stupid stuff). He was so angry and upset about this -- which I will assume was for some good reason, that there is more background than I understand -- that he wanted to break her computer. Okay, I even understand that, because I understand having a temper.

Then he DID break her computer. Then he CHARGED her for the computer, and the bullets, because in his fit of temper he destroyed it instead of selling or even donating it. (He also won't take money for the computer, presumably to further punish his unemployed teenage high school student daughter.) The he posted it online so everyone can see. And now he's holding fast that not a single piece of what he did was wrong.

I hope she's close to graduating high school and that she doesn't have any younger siblings.
posted by jeather at 10:00 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I get your point Ivan, but that's why I made that comparison, because the disrespect is the common link and the secrecy of the disrespect makes it doubly frustrating to a controlling parent. That's all true.

I just think - and in no way, shape or form am I stepping up to defend this guy's actions - the media is different, its scope is vastly different, and the fact that it doesn't go away is fundamentally different. That we should treat having a teenage snit fit on each media as the same... that I don't agree with.
posted by stinkycheese at 10:01 AM on February 10, 2012


I wouldn't have been able to sit down properly for at least a week after my mother got through with the spanking - and I would have deserved every bit of it.

I disagree.
posted by glhaynes at 10:02 AM on February 10, 2012 [28 favorites]


You know, I would consider pretty terrible parenting to even forward this video to a child and give the impression that I endorsed a single thing in it.
posted by DU at 10:03 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


Teenagers need to learn that Facebook can never be that sort of outlet.

I have no idea why you would make such a declaration. Facebook isn't taking an ad out in the paper, and the father only found it because he installed spyware.
posted by spaltavian at 10:03 AM on February 10, 2012


In retrospect, I'm sorry if what I said came across as horrible. Not my intention. My mind kind of made two jumps ("people will freak out about the gun. then people will say that had nothing to do with it. of course it has something to do with it. it's really no different from THIS") and then I made a funny story out of it.

FWIW, I wouldn't DREAM of hurting Big Bear or Tiger. No comment on that back-stabbing Pig, though.
posted by pjaust at 10:04 AM on February 10, 2012 [30 favorites]


It's like an awful fractal where every part is as awful as the whole.
posted by The Whelk at 10:06 AM on February 10, 2012 [11 favorites]


I find the overall outrage her pretty lame or sometimes even very self-righteous.

I think it would be great to see the age of every righteous person here and if they ever raised or dealt with a (stupid) teenager themselves on a daily basis. Raising Kids is hard work and teenagers are very hard to deal with ...

Overall I applaud his creativity and honesty, other truly bad parents would have beaten her up or done worse. Shooting her Laptop? So what?! The symbolic act as well as filming it was very creative IMHO. It obviously showed her what it means to go public with a tantrum ...

The whole situation showed that he cared and wanted to do something to teach her a lesson. Other parents wouldn't have bothered or resorted to real violence.

So get over it!
posted by homodigitalis at 10:07 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


at 15, she can't legally get most types of work.

At 15, I had a job working six hours a night, six days a week, as a board operator and country music radio DJ, including school nights. Yes, I drove illegally on a learner's permit for about six months, but work was about a mile from home.
posted by mrbill at 10:09 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


pjaust: "In retrospect, I'm sorry if what I said came across as horrible. Not my intention. My mind kind of made two jumps ("people will freak out about the gun. then people will say that had nothing to do with it. of course it has something to do with it. it's really no different from THIS") and then I made a funny story out of it.

FWIW, I wouldn't DREAM of hurting Big Bear or Tiger. No comment on that back-stabbing Pig, though.
"

OK. Thank you for clarifying.

Comments like that bother me to what is probably an irrational degree.
posted by zarq at 10:09 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Didn't beat her, didn't sell her into slavery either. What more do you people want?

/hamburgler
posted by ZeroAmbition at 10:11 AM on February 10, 2012



Discharging a loaded firearm at an inanimate object to prove a point is NOT what the framers of the second amendment had in mind when protecting our rights to keep and bear arms.

Beyond that, this guy thinks he's a great dad for following through on a consequence. The fact that he flippantly suggested that he would "put a bullet in it" if his daughter used the computer inappropriately just goes to show that his initial reaction to the first infraction was over the top.

Kids need to vent. I used to write long notes to my friends in class, or write hilariously misspelled and punctuated screed/songs for my mythical band. Sure, I didn't have an opportunity to show my ass in public like kids do today, but if I had it available, trust me, I'd have been all over it.

Kids know how to push your buttons, I know, I used to teach high school. Also, this is why I don't teach high school any more. There is nothing less attractive than getting down to their level. Shooting a laptop is just another way of sticking out your tongue and saying, "I know you are, but what am I?"
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 10:11 AM on February 10, 2012 [17 favorites]


The whole situation showed that he cared

About his ego. There was not a single bit of parenting in this. It was a temper tantrum. A lot more immature and snotty than a teenger blowing off some steam.

At 15, I had a job working six hours a night, six days a week, as a board operator and country music radio DJ, including school nights.

I had a job too. No one cares.

In retrospect, I'm sorry if what I said came across as horrible.

I thought you were trolling at first; but you then insisted you were being serious. I'm not sure why you did this or why you think your story is "funny". People actually parent in the matter you described.
posted by spaltavian at 10:12 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


mrbill: "At 15, I had a job working six hours a night, six days a week, as a board operator and country music radio DJ, including school nights. "

Times ain't what they used to be. You can't work as a DJ when you're 14 or 15 in North Carolina.
posted by zarq at 10:13 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


When you're good and angry at family members, there's nothing better than knowing you can take out some of that rage and make your point with a gun and exploding hollow point bullets.

I haven't heard a parent talk like this since my own childhood when I'd hear it from other kids' parents. I remember, even at age 7, how horrible it would be to live with such constant oppression and fear, how they we're being taught to hate themselves for just being kids. And almost all -- fuck it, I will say *all* -- of those kids grew up not living to their potential. Unplanned teenage pregnancies, school drop outs, drugs, jail.

Me, I would be fucking disappointed if my sons didn't publicly rant about being stuck at home doing stuff they didn't like with their family at 15 years old. Why? Because rebellion and assertion of independence is normal fucking teenage behavior. Who got hurt by your daughter's screed? Where is the evidence of her deteriorating moral character? No, thanks to you, she gets to go to school hanging her head in shame that she's the offspring of brain-damaged redneck trash. Not only that, but the tool she uses to connect to the outside world, a tool that she needs to do her homework, apply to colleges, or access family planning services has ten bullet holes in it.

Fuck this guy.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:14 AM on February 10, 2012 [29 favorites]


Shooting her Laptop? So what?! The symbolic act....

To answer your "so what" I'd like to ask you: What was the act symbolic of, do you suppose?
posted by DU at 10:15 AM on February 10, 2012 [8 favorites]


At 15, I had a job working six hours a night, six days a week, as a board operator and country music radio DJ, including school nights. Yes, I drove illegally on a learner's permit for about six months, but work was about a mile from home.

I have to ask. mrbill are you Ron Fucking Swanson perchance?
posted by Talez at 10:16 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


There is nothing less attractive than getting down to their level. Shooting a laptop is just another way of sticking out your tongue and saying, "I know you are, but what am I?"

Right? Way to go, Pops, you got one over on a 15-year-old girl who can't buy her own groceries!
posted by Snarl Furillo at 10:16 AM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


mrbill wrote: "At 15, I had a job working six hours a night, six days a week, as a board operator and country music radio DJ, including school nights. Yes, I drove illegally on a learner's permit for about six months, but work was about a mile from home."

zarq responded: "Times ain't what they used to be. You can't work as a DJ when you're 14 or 15 in North Carolina."

It wasn't legal to do what he did in 1990, either. He worked, if we believe him, at least four of five school nights for six hours each night, for a total of thirty-six hours a week. That simply wasn't legal in 1990, or now.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:20 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


Not only that, but the tool she uses to connect to the outside world, a tool that she needs to do her homework, apply to colleges, or access family planning services has ten bullet holes in it.

Regarding the bold, I wonder what he threatend as consequence of his daugther ever turning up teen pregnant... Nah. I don't think I really want to know.
posted by ZeroAmbition at 10:20 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


My great teenaged internet transgression was making a friend online at 13. We had a long talk about how naive I was in my confidence that this prolific author of quality StarFox fanfic was not actually a clever and very patient axe murderer. My mother was furious about my lies. I was allowed to send one goodbye email before being banned from the internet - all contact with my best friend in the world - for six months.

I "got over it" quickly, too (see furious, above), but I cried and cried. Later when I was alone I went to the computer just to see if I could guess the new password. In the depths of my angst and teenaged self-centeredness, you might say, I had a burning hunch I had to test: I bet she changed it to "liar."

I typed it in and waited while the connection icon animated. And then it worked. I disconnected immediately, weirdly shaken and satisfied at the same time, but I didn't think too much of it. Obviously that was how my mind worked then. But I look back on it now and think about the fact that her mind worked the same way. I'm so lucky she just happened to not like guns, because nothing could have stopped her from being this guy or worse. Kids are just fundamentally legally unsafe and it bothers me so much when I really get to thinking about it.
posted by jinjo at 10:21 AM on February 10, 2012 [15 favorites]


Ummm... FAKE.
posted by Cosine at 10:24 AM on February 10, 2012


I stopped at the creepy overbearing drama part, which was like, 30 seconds in.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:25 AM on February 10, 2012


A gun is a tool, it destroys things, or disables them. I don't see why his choice of a tool matters to anyone, as it was done in a safe manner, in a safe location.

If he had cut it in half with a saw, or burned it with a torch, drilled holes into it, or dropped it into the trash right before the garbage hauler came, would it really matter?

He had warned her what the consequences were going to be, he calmly discussed it with his wife to make sure it wasn't just an emotional response on his part. He wasn't intoxicated, and clearly thought it all through.

Nobody was threatened with violence, a piece of computing equipment was destroyed.

Anyone who thinks this is abuse probably has never actually had kids, and lives in the dreamy utopia of ignorance.

I salute this man, and look forward to sharing this video with my wife.
posted by MikeWarot at 10:25 AM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


MikeWarot: " Anyone who thinks this is abuse probably has never actually had kids, and lives in the dreamy utopia of ignorance."

I have two kids. And I wish I lived in a dreamy utopia of ignorance. I'm not convinced this is abuse. But yes, it looks very much like intimidation to me.
posted by zarq at 10:28 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


"Anyone who thinks this is abuse probably has never actually had kids, and lives in the dreamy utopia of ignorance."

Would people please stop making this stupid fucking argument? Your experience as a parent does not determine what every other goddamn parent in the entire world thinks about this, nor that anyone who disagrees with you is naively ignorant. Get a fucking grip.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:28 AM on February 10, 2012 [45 favorites]


A gun is a tool, it destroys things, or disables them. I don't see why his choice of a tool matters to anyone, as it was done in a safe manner, in a safe location.

If he had cut it in half with a saw, or burned it with a torch, drilled holes into it, or dropped it into the trash right before the garbage hauler came, would it really matter?


A saw or a drill or whatever is a tool. A gun is a weapon. He didn't destroy her computer, he KILLED it. A gun is what you use to end a life.
posted by jinjo at 10:29 AM on February 10, 2012 [20 favorites]


I don't see why his choice of a tool matters to anyone, as it was done in a safe manner, in a safe location.

If he had cut it in half with a saw, or burned it with a torch, drilled holes into it, or dropped it into the trash right before the garbage hauler came, would it really matter?


In that, ask yourself why he didn't use one of those other tools. Why a gun specifically, if it's interchangeable with all these other tools that would be just as effective. Why not sell it? Why the gun?
posted by DU at 10:29 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


I keep seeing this posted around FB, I was kinda wondering when it'd get here.

This insecure dick makes me think of Community, when Jeff confronts Pierce's father::
Henry Hawthorne:
"He will BE what I tell him to BE, because I am his FATHER!"

Jeff:
"Listen up Colonel Cryptkeeper, I could live a million years, and spend every second of it doing important things, but at the end of it all, I will only have lived half a life if I had not raised a son. This was a gift handed to you. You squandered it. The reason you have so much hatred in your heart is because you're trying to fill a hole in your heart where your KID was supposed to go, and now? It's too late! Now, you're just stomping around trying to prove you exist, well, Mission Accomplished!

But here's a question I'd like to pass onto you, from every son who had a crap dad: 'So what?'

I'm done with you. He's done with you. The WORLD is done with you.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 10:29 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


My ex boyfriend's father did this to his laptop, except he used a golf club instead of a firearm, and didn't publicly shame him (though I'm sure he would have, had Youtube been a thing then).

That single act wasn't that bad (and I'm sure apologists will say the same about this dude), but it definitely contributed to a pattern of behavior that left my ex emotionally damaged and angry at his father for the rest of his father's life. I agree with the sentiment that his daughter being "bored" with this definitely indicates that her normal is not properly calibrated.
posted by almostmanda at 10:30 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


dreamy utopia of ignorance

If you think "raising kids" it what keeps you out of a dreamy utopia. You are the ignorant one. I think a lot of people can see this for what it is because they've actually had to deal with abuse before.

It's pretty clear to me that someone who hasn't had to deal with violence or insecurity could shrug their shoulders and say "no one got hurt".
posted by spaltavian at 10:30 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]




Oh and not only do I have multiple kids, I even have a teenager we are getting pretty fed up with. But we're not going to start shooting his possessions and posting videos of it on the Internet.

posted by DU at 10:30 AM on February 10, 2012


Because nothing leads to harmony like restrictive and vindictive parenting. If this is how he reacts to her talking crap about him (ostensibly behind his back to a private audience of friends) imagine what open rebellion would lead to.

Fast forward 2 years, here is the head of my daughter who just couldn't respect my authority as a man.
posted by NiteMayr at 10:31 AM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


Why the gun?

Is it because he actually wanted to fuck the laptop?
posted by lrobertjones at 10:31 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


For what it's worth, the Dreamy Utopia of Ignorance isn't all it's cracked up to be. Our taxes are pretty high, for one thing.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:32 AM on February 10, 2012 [7 favorites]


"HOW SHE GOT CAUGHT: The Dog Did It.. no, really."

A far better and more chilling response would clearly have been a comment that just said "woof".
posted by pmcp at 10:33 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


The sad part was when she took the dog out and shot it.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:34 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I don't know what gets me more down, this dad (which, having a 15 year old, we watched this last night together and we both laughed at it, no judgement from us!) shooting his daughter's stuff (which he probably bought, so he can still do whatever he wants with it) or the internet judging the entire psychohistory of the family from one video.

Reminds me of a certain woman in a coma state down in florida who was taken off of life support and a certain senator proclaiming that she has brain activity from a single youtube video.
posted by roboton666 at 10:35 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


"The sad part was when she took the dog out and shot it."

Yes, but she warned him that would happen. It's important that her father know that she will follow through.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:35 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


At 15, I had a job working six hours a night, six days a week,

I slopped manure; killed weeds and carried newspapers, you sat indoors and poked at buttons. My Cross was so much worse.

This "dad" behaved poorly and we all get to talk about it on the medium he used to do it on. Yay "The Future"
posted by NiteMayr at 10:37 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


This would be like bugger your kids' phone to listen on their conversations with their friends

You know, I enjoy having anal sex with other people's telephones as much as anyone can, but I'm just not sure how it will help me listen to their conversations.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:37 AM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


Would I have received the same viral attention if I’d used it as a dog toy, hit it with a hammer, drove over it with the truck, or simply thrown it away?

Why does he care if his daughter's discipline gets viral attention?

My guess would be fake, but then I didn't watch it.

But if it's real, this squared:

"This is the stuff you pretend not to see so when something serious rolls around you can have a rational response to it."

Seriously. That's your fucking ace in the hole, dad, and you just blew it. Keep that shit in your pocket until you really need it.

There's something about going into a child's room, taking something that belongs to her and that she values, and publicly executing it, that's a little too close to "I AM SHOOTING YOU BY PROXY" for me to ever be comfortable with.

Amen. If you've ever been a parent, and like me, experienced the sheer frustration that makes you want to bash your child's skull against the wall, you'll understand exactly how very scary this video must be. I won't watch it.

"Anyone who thinks this is abuse probably has never actually had kids, and lives in the dreamy utopia of ignorance."

Do not feed.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:40 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


also,

At 15, I had a job working six hours a night, six days a week,

... that I would have done for free.

I enjoy having anal sex with other people's telephones as much as anyone

I loled.

posted by mrgrimm at 10:42 AM on February 10, 2012


Still, fake and/or staged/marketed.
posted by mrgrimm at 10:42 AM on February 10, 2012


I think the gun/facebook angle is a bit of a red herring (a mindboggling red herring, but a red herring just the same). Parents do this kind of vindictive shit to their kids all the time, and it doesn't teach "responsibility" or "social maturity" -- it teaches pain and mistrust (oh, the epic trust issues). What this girl has learned is that her father is willing to hurt his 15 year old daughter (maybe not physically, but hurt just the same) if she disobeys him. She has also learned that his lessons are arbitrary lies: I love the ridiculous juxtaposition of "I learned at about age 3 what good words were.. and what bad word were. I learned what I should say, and what I shouldn’t say" and "I shouldn’t have said the word 'ass.' I’ll agree that wasn’t a good example of me as a father" above... and that's not even getting into the whole "I'll make your punishment public on Facebook so you'll learn not to make insults public on Facebook" thing.

Most of all, she's learned that "she’ll never doubt my resolve to follow-through on a consequence again"... which I'm sure will be very useful the first time this "father" threatens to bring the hammer (literally!) down on something like drugs or drinking or sex, where the consequences of hiding your experimentation from your parents can be much worse than any punishment.

Do as I say and not as I do, because I have the power to hurt you and you can't trust me not to -- perhaps that is an important life lesson, but IMHO kids are better off learning it from people other than their parents.
posted by vorfeed at 10:46 AM on February 10, 2012 [18 favorites]


Had I ever said anything remotely like what she posted to Facebook, I wouldn't have been able to sit down properly for at least a week after my mother got through with the spanking - and I would have deserved every bit of it.

I see people saying "She was just having teenage angst" - while I may have had plenty of that growing up, one thing I did NOT do was ever disrespect my parents, elders, or other relatives.


I'm really surprised it took so long for the "MY ABUSIVE PARENTS LET ME SHOW YOU THEM" comments to start.
posted by odinsdream at 10:46 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


If he had cut it in half with a saw, or burned it with a torch, drilled holes into it, or dropped it into the trash right before the garbage hauler came, would it really matter?

No, he's still intimidating, fucking creepy, and highly immature.

It's just also gross that he is fascinated with his gun as an expression of his power.
posted by Miko at 10:47 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


Holy cow. Just checked out his Facebook. One thing is clear: he is LOVING this attention. Just eating it up like mad, generating more content by the minute. He's having a field day. If he's turning down interview requests, I suspect it's for one of these two reasons: 1) He can't control those channels, though he can control his social media; and 2) the daughter might not exist, or exist in the way she's portrayed, or play along as she's supposed to.

I too find his protestations that she's "not interested" suspect.
posted by Miko at 10:49 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


[We don't do doxxing here; no outing of contact info, address, etc. on this guy, please.]
posted by taz at 10:51 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


To me, the part that makes this scary is not so much the firing of a gun as the public posting of the video. Posting this online makes pretty clear that this whole incident is not about discipline but rather is about this guy feeling embarassed and losing control. Now he has shown the world who is in charge. He gets to have the last word since he has cut off his daughter's access to the Internet. Even better, he can purport to speak for her about how great a dad he is and how reasonable the discipline was!

Actually, having just taken a look at the Facebook comments, the scariest thing is that most commenters seem to be rooting for this guy.
posted by brain_drain at 10:52 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I guess on my spectrum, we have this dad ^, compared to this dad ->

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/josh-powell-murder-suicide-young-sons.html

I'm trying to keep perspective on the "fucked up parents" continuum.
posted by roboton666 at 10:56 AM on February 10, 2012


Shooting her Laptop? So what?! The symbolic act as well as filming it was very creative IMHO.

Creative? Shooting holes in something is creative? Every time I've seen it done, it was very destructive.

The reason he used a gun is because he's a gun lover. Not just a person who looks on guns as tools, but a gun lover. That was clear when he started telling us what kind of ammunition he was using to create destroy his daughter's laptop.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:56 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


This just cleared my way for parent of the year award. I think I'll show this video to my 15 year old daughter to elevate my status.

Seriously, he's an egomaniac and it wouldn't surprise me if the whole thing was just a big, staged non-event.
posted by Kokopuff at 10:58 AM on February 10, 2012


If you have to compare someone to a murderer, to consider them not a jerk, then probably they are a jerk.
posted by lrobertjones at 10:59 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I was hoping to stay out of this. Note my earlier comment.

But just the small bit I watched (the start of the father's vid -- I didn't bother with hers) has gotten under my skin. Because he reminds me of a dad I know. A great guy in all kinds of ways, but every now and then his daughter pulls something uniquely teenaged stupid and then I see a certain darkness rise in him as he schemes some sort of appropriate response. This is him getting dragged to her level. This is adult him regressing, taking it all way too personally, just like a teenager would.

I compare him to another dad I know, whose daughter (when she was that age) pulled all kinds of mad and stupid shit (drugs and alcohol, arrested at least twice, lies, lies, lies). I was always amazed at how stoic he was. It's not like there were no punishments (there were), but they came from an adult level. They were nuanced. They were about teaching her to take responsibility for her actions without driving her away. Now, she's in her early 20s and a great young adult, who loves her parents, her whole family, and so on. She's matured.

I talked to him (the dad) about it recently and he put it rather simply. "No matter how bad stuff got, I just kept reminding myself that I was the adult."
posted by philip-random at 11:00 AM on February 10, 2012 [15 favorites]


I am so disappointed that he didn't accidentally shoot himself in the leg at the end of the video. Worst comedy video ever.
posted by The World Famous at 11:01 AM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


Maybe documenting yourself discharging a firearm in a congested area isn't the smartest thing to do. How has he not been visited by the law yet?
posted by balistic at 11:11 AM on February 10, 2012


It's just also gross that he is fascinated with his gun as an expression of his power.

Yeah. I think of my parents as being generally good, but I do have plenty of stories like jinjo's, and I grew up in a home full of guns, including handguns. But there is no fucking way my parents would ever have thought that anything remotely like this was appropriate. Guns were serious things which were never, ever used as a threat, a punishment, or in any way other than shooting at designated targets. Period. I was never afraid of guns growing up, to the point where I don't think the idea ever occurred to me... not until I left home and saw the way some people handled their guns.

From a responsible-gun-ownership standpoint this is totally bats, much less a parenting standpoint.

Also: you have shitty trigger/muzzle discipline, Mr. Dad.
posted by vorfeed at 11:17 AM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


I'm not aware of how things work in Texas, but can we assume this guy has been reported to police and CPS? I don't live in the US, so please step up if you can report him.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 11:18 AM on February 10, 2012


The father is an idiot on so many levels.

First he broke her computer. May as well just burned a few Benjamins in front of her.

Second he used a gun and posted it online.

Third he thinks that he accomplished something, she is still online. Every friend of hers has a computer and a cell phone and they all think her dad is nuts.

Fourth, he just destroyed the only method he had to spy on her.

This is without even examining the parenting issues.
posted by psycho-alchemy at 11:22 AM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


n about is fair play up remains of daddy dearests favorite truck. Turn about is fair play and all that. She can give a good lecture on the real things parents teach their kids, while smoking a cigarette.
posted by doctor_negative at 11:27 AM on February 10, 2012


Chaussette and the Pussy Cats: "I'm not aware of how things work in Texas,

He's based in North Carolina, not Texas.

...but can we assume this guy has been reported to police and CPS? I don't live in the US, so please step up if you can report him."

According to this page, they would need to know the county he lives in, (and I assume his address,) then report him to that county's Department of Social Services.

Found this on that page:
Twelve Alternatives to Lashing out at Your Child

The next time everyday pressures build up to the point where you feel like lashing out -- STOP! Try any of these simple alternatives. You'll feel better... and so will your child.

* Take a deep breath... and another. Then remember you are the adult.
* Close your eyes and imagine you're hearing what your child is about to hear.
* Press your lips together and count to 10... or better yet, to 20.
* Put your child in a time-out chair (remember this rule: one time-out minute for each year of age.)
* Put yourself in a time-out chair. Think about why you are angry: is it your child, or is your child simply a convenient target for your anger?
* Phone a friend.
* If someone can watch the children, go outside and take a walk.
* Take a hot bath or splash cold water on your face.
* Hug a pillow.
* Turn on some music. Maybe even sing along.
* Pick up a pencil and write down as many helpful words as you can think of. Save the list.
* Call 1-800-4-A-CHILD [This is the number for the Childhelp National Child Abuse Hotline])

posted by zarq at 11:32 AM on February 10, 2012 [10 favorites]


To clarify, I'm not advocating that anyone here report the guy to CPS. For one thing, we don't really know any more about this family and their situation than what the father is saying on YouTube and Facebook.

But I wanted to point out that it's not as simple as "You live in the US! Go call CPS!"
posted by zarq at 11:42 AM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


CPS has better things to do, anyway. I guarantee you that there are parents in this guy's town who've pointed their guns at their kids, much less a laptop.
posted by vorfeed at 11:47 AM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I dated a guy who threw my son's Nintendo across the room and destroyed it because my son didn't respond quickly when asked to clean up his room. I realized that I was witnessing violence and rage that could have been directed at a person instead of an inanimate object, and I called the relationship to a halt - not in the heat of the moment, but soon. 20 years later, my son still remembers this event as completely traumatic, and there wasn't a lethal weapon involved. Gun Dad deserves some alone time.
posted by tizzie at 11:54 AM on February 10, 2012 [28 favorites]


This is what happens when you work in I.T.

Parents, if your child is expressing an interest in going into I.T. work, there are programs that can help keep get them back on the path towards a more healthy career choice.

If you read "programs" in that sentence and thought "computer programs" instead of "social programs," you may already be in too deep.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:04 PM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


It's rather telling what got him upset. He was upset when his daughter chose to express herself in ways he disapproved of, even if it was privately. He was upset because she was expressing herself to friends in a way he couldn't immediately control, so he'd pay her back.

Being a teenager doesn’t mean you somehow deserve to have no privacy, no rights, no boundaries, even from your parents. Teenagers are human beings. You do not respond to your child venting to friends by getting a gun! If this Dad were any color other than white, I wonder how much applause he'd be getting.
posted by ShawnStruck at 12:16 PM on February 10, 2012 [7 favorites]


Oh, and the property he destroyed was something his daughter paid for with HER OWN MONEY.

Screencap here:
http://dogandponyshowwebsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Photo-Feb-10-12-07-05-AM.jpg

"She bought it with her money. For us to sell it and take the money, in my mind anyways, is just theft, even from my own kid. This however, I think made a much more long-lasting impression. I won't sell it out from under her, and I tried taking it away for a short time. That didn't seem to have any effect whatsoever. Now, it's permanent. Until she gets a job and pays us back, then she won't have ANYTHING fun.

Part of me suspects that part of her really wanted lobe caught. I mean, hell, she titled it 'To My Parents".., well you got our attention. I hope that we now have yours.., fully and undivided."
posted by ShawnStruck at 12:20 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


This guy is an ill tempered trigger happy moron.
posted by zeoslap at 12:28 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


"She bought it with her money. For us to sell it and take the money, in my mind anyways, is just theft, even from my own kid. This however, I think made a much more long-lasting impression. I won't sell it out from under her, but I will permanently destroy it, because property damage is totally not a crime at all. I mean, it's not like I'm stealing from her, right?"

If only he were self-aware enough to realize that this is what he is actually saying in that post.
posted by asnider at 12:32 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also: note how he's so concerned with his daughter learning her lesson about respect that he has to talk about what kind of gun he has and how badass his bullets are. 'cause this has nothing to do with his ego.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:35 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


I work IT as my day job. I've always wanted to do theme days in tech support. Like "Your Favorite Harrison Ford Character," then when a machine acts up you can shoot it or smack it with a whip. Or the Paclid day, "You need things. Things to make it go." Or voodoo: "Leave that chicken bone exactly where it is!" Ninja: You get the hard question, you throw down a smoke bomb, and run!

I am going to add hick cowboy to the list. I give a 7 minute lecture and smoke a cigarette and rant petulantly then shoot something.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:35 PM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


Girl, you have it so easy. When I was 16...
posted by yoyo_nyc at 12:39 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


He lost me when he just tossed his cigarette butt and the crumpled up paper to the ground.
Guy's a bum.
posted by pentagoet at 12:44 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


This is why I get all my parenting advice from Metafilter. Everyone here knows everything, it's awesome.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:50 PM on February 10, 2012 [7 favorites]


Also, I've diagnosed so many previously unnoticed psychological conditions in absolute strangers. Again, thanks to the perceptive community right here.
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:51 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


This is why I get all my parenting advice from Metafilter. Everyone here knows everything, it's awesome.

actually I know like one thing, it's "don't use guns in your parenting," it's pretty applicable to every parent and every child.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 12:54 PM on February 10, 2012 [24 favorites]


Here in BC, all people - regardless of whether they are a social worker or whatever - and whether they know the identity/address/etc of someone are bound by law to report even a question or suspicion of child abuse. I'm not sure if that is the law where they are. (I thought I read on his Facebook that he was in Dallas, but maybe not.) But it sure as heck is the law here.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 12:59 PM on February 10, 2012


This is why I get all my parenting advice from Metafilter. Everyone here knows everything, it's awesome.

actually I know like one thing, it's "don't use guns in your parenting," it's pretty applicable to every parent and every child.


Yeah. It's not like "don't take your child's toys out back and then film yourself as you execute them" is only offered in Elite Parenting 402: Everyone Knows Everything It's Awesome.
posted by vorfeed at 1:06 PM on February 10, 2012 [11 favorites]


Here in BC, all people - regardless of whether they are a social worker or whatever - and whether they know the identity/address/etc of someone are bound by law to report even a question or suspicion of child abuse.

And it's a potentially pernicious law. Don't trouble yourself with thinking about it, just call the experts and they'll deal with it.

the same experts who ... [enter your favorite recent policing related fuckup here]
posted by philip-random at 1:06 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


Elite Parenting 402: Everyone Knows Everything It's Awesome

Besides, I only took that Pass/Fail so I could spend more time concentrating on Human Relations 440: DTMFA.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:11 PM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


I don't know why, but I've been thinking about this video and the subsequent MetaFilter comments all afternoon. I guess it's because my first reaction was different than the majority of the comments. When I first watched the video I thought:

1. Ok, dad's got somewhat of a point
2. Wow, he's being kind of a dick about it
3. Hey, a gun. That's pretty funny! I could totally see my own dad doing this.

Then I read the comments and noticed how many commenters were upset about the gun, even going so far as to suggest that it was a form of child abuse, implying that CPS might want to get involved.

I tried to write up a calm rebuttal, failed, got to 1000 words, deleted them all, tried again. Now I'm trying again, because for some reason I can't stop thinking about this. I feel like I'm witnessing a bias amongst many comments, a bias which I assume is based on experience, or more specifically, lack thereof, with guns. Not a lack of experience with domestic violence, though. I know a lot of folks have dealt with that. But the introduction of a gun, in a video in which no one else was present but the dad, the laptop, and the weapon...well I don't think that's as violent as it seems. It's all about context.

Consider the following:

1. This family is in the U.S., where gun laws are among the freest in the free world
2. The Southern U.S.
3. Which is generally known to be Red. As in republican. As in NRA. As in John Fucking Wayne and Ronald Goddamn Reagan, where it's perfectly normal to see a pickup truck with a hunting rifle propped up in the back window.

Based on this admittedly limited dataset, it's possible, just possible, that this family has a slightly different relationship to guns than the majority of posters on MetaFilter. Why would I say this? Because I have a feeling I grew up in a very similar household, and because my reaction to the gun (not the dick parenting, just the gun) was so different.

My dad was in the Army. I shot my first firearm when I was three years old. It was an M16. Growing up, our coat closet was basically an arsenal: shotguns, hunting rifles, handguns. I was the best marksman in my scout troop. I went target shooting with my dad all the time. Even now that I'm grown up, and even though I don't own any guns myself, I still go shooting with my dad sometimes.

My dad was also kind of like this guy...except that he takes himself a lot less seriously. At any rate like I said before I could totally see him doing this. He's a huge movie buff, always wanted to be a stuntman or a director, so he would have done a video for sure. If I had been the teenager I would have been furious at the destruction of property, but I wouldn't have been scared or traumatized by the on-camera use of a gun. I wouldn't have been shocked by that at all. It would have been a non-event, an incidental detail to the more important HEY THAT'S MY LAPTOP YOU ASSHOLE

Flash forward: I'm pretty well adjusted. I work at a global software developer. I'm a responsible person. My politics are very liberal, so much so that I don't usually talk politics when I'm visiting my family because it never ends well (they're dyed-in-the wool Republicans). I also work with lots of well educated people, and we all pretty much agree on politics...except when it comes to guns.

My colleagues are always incredibly shocked when I tell them about my dad, about my upbringing. They look at me like I must be psychologically damaged. Like I'm just some shell of a person because how could you ever hold a gun and use it and not be some violent monster?.

I just laugh about this, because it's so far from the truth. Even my dad, gun nut that he is, is not even remotely as violent as he might seem. Sure he loves to act tough. He's always talking about using artillery to solve problems. Once he had a particularly pesky laser printer that was no longer worth repairing. We took it out to the desert and shot it up. My dad loves war movies, too. He loves watching people get blown away. He loves Clint Eastwood. Except, when he doesn't. And here's the rub:

For all his talk of violence, my dad is one of the least violent people I have ever known. What he actually loves is cartoon violence. Violence so over-the-top it can't possibly be real. Sure he enjoyed Saving Private Ryan, but he has never watched it twice. The violence was too real, too horrible. On the other hand he's got a shrine to John Wayne built in his office.

Similarly, he doesn't hunt. As much as he'd like too, and he's ten times the marksman I'd ever be, when he has a deer in his sights he just can't pull the trigger. Shoot up a coffee can or an old busted TV? Sure. Shoot a living creature? No way in hell. He once confessed to me that the worst thing about basic training for him was the bayonet training. Shooting the gun was easy, they were just paper targets, but with the bayonet he had stab a dummy over and over while yelling KILL! KILL! KILL! at the top of his lungs. He has only mentioned this to me once. He never talks about it, it's too painful for him to remember.

Maybe I'm projecting a little, but when I watched that video I saw a little bit of my own father in some of his weaker moments: a frustrated parent with a penchant for the dramatic. I didn't see the shooting of the laptop as a threat of violence, and I don't think that this dad did either. It looked to my eyes like a visual form of hyperbole. A wilfully disproportionate response intended to make a point. Not necessarily a worthwhile point, but a point all the same.

I'm not saying he's right. I would never do this to my own child. I don't believe in airing family disputes for the whole world to see. But I also don't think the gun is the worst part of that video. Not even close. The existence of the video on a non-private YouTube URL is the worst part of that video. Turning a private argument into a mass media buffet is the biggest problem here (and no, dude
, you can't blame your daughter for starting it).

But then again my relationship to guns in general may be different than yours.

A gun can be a totem. For many, a gun's only design is for killing. I won't argue that, as I tend to agree. But I also recognize that for many people, like my dad, probably like the dad in this video, a gun is simply a gun. It has no totemic weight. It's just part of the landscape. You hunt with it. You shoot targets with it. Some people kill with it, but I would never do that, no sir. I'm not saying this is right, I'm just saying that this is how some people see it, and this is why they don't think it's as big of a deal as you do. Even for me, this is why I don't see a gun discharged at a laptop on camera as being a threat of violence.

The story upthread about the guy who smashed the Nintendo against the wall in a fit of rage when the kid wouldn't get up fast enough? To me that's a hundred miles up scary creek compared to this gun and laptop fiasco. YMMV.
posted by Doleful Creature at 1:14 PM on February 10, 2012 [24 favorites]


"She bought it with her money. For us to sell it and take the money, in my mind anyways, is just theft, even from my own kid. This however, I think made a much more long-lasting impression. I won't sell it out from under her, and I tried taking it away for a short time. That didn't seem to have any effect whatsoever. Now, it's permanent. Until she gets a job and pays us back, then she won't have ANYTHING fun.

What a prick. His "logic" about shooting the computer somehow not being theft slays me. If she was 16 and she stayed out past curfew in her car, would he have shot that up?

What he did was indefensible. Destroying someone else property is never a good lesson (with or without a gun). Just like you don't key or slash the tires of someone else's car because they take up two parking spaces.

No, this guy was mad his impetuous daughter's Facebook post. It is a noble idea to get your kids to not swear in public or to get them them to help around the house. But it is somewhat unrealistic that a 15 year old might use profanity and might gripe about her parents online. So now she's internet famous for being pretty normal. Her computer privileges (and literal computer) are gone. I guess he's in IT so she didn't lose her homework or photos that might have been important. Or more likely her dad, who she has long suspected as being an asshole, is indeed an asshole.

If my parents did something like that and then put it online? I'd be looking to get the fuck out ASAP. Here "offense" was pretty minor in the teenagers misbehaving department. His offense would get him drawn and quartered (in British Columbia). I feel sorry for the kid. I wonder if moving in with mom is an option. For dad, he's going to wonder why his daughter doesn't want to have anything to do with him after she moved out.

It would be heartbreaking for the local news to have "remember the guy who shot his daughter's laptop story we reported on last month, well there's an amber alert out for her now. If you've seen Hannah please call the police as soon as possible."
posted by birdherder at 1:16 PM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


Using your kids to make yourself a viral sensation on the internet is pretty questionable behavior even when public humiliation and property damage and firearms aren't involved.

This is not tough love. This is jeopardizing the bond of trust and respect between you and your daughter in order to look tough.

But, you know, lots of Facebook commenters are impressed with his badassery, so I'm sure it was worth it.
posted by prize bull octorok at 1:17 PM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


I feel like I'm witnessing a bias amongst many comments, a bias which I assume is based on experience, or more specifically, lack thereof, with guns.... It's all about context.

I might possibly agree with you if I weren't (a) a native Texan, (b) a gun enthusiast, and (c) responsible.

Someone above noted there's no construct of responsible gun ownership - in any culture - that involves blowing household objects to smithereens with it in anger and retribution.

None.

And there's just too much else going on here. A guy this poor at dealing with structure, discipline, and anger should not trust guns around himself, let alone the rest of his family.
posted by Miko at 1:18 PM on February 10, 2012 [15 favorites]


This thread is pretty much the opposite of this thread.

Learn something every day.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:21 PM on February 10, 2012


1. This family is in the U.S., where gun laws are among the freest in the free world
2. The Southern U.S.
3. Which is generally known to be Red. As in republican. As in NRA. As in John Fucking Wayne and Ronald Goddamn Reagan, where it's perfectly normal to see a pickup truck with a hunting rifle propped up in the back window.


Hi from North Carolina! Could you please refrain from doing this kind of lazy bullshit broadbrushing?
posted by odinsdream at 1:24 PM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


"This thread is pretty much the opposite of this thread."

I'm not sure what your point is.

First of all, that thread was very ambivalent. Some people took the position that the preponderance of evidence implied that the kid wouldn't feel genuinely and strongly aggrieved by the trespass, and others that he would because it's important to respect a child's privacy and he explicitly requested that they do so.

Second of all, nothing about what the family did in that case was, you know, violent and retributive. The context in general had nothing whatsoever to do with anger and punishment.

Third of all, both threads have a lot of expressions of disapproval of parents putting their children into the public eye via a viral video/photo.

So it seems to me that the linked stories were pretty much the opposite of each other, but that the community reactions were similar in the few respects in which the circumstances were similar.

Maybe you're projecting some issue of your own onto all this?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:29 PM on February 10, 2012


It wasn't legal to do what he did in 1990, either. He worked, if we believe him, at least four of five school nights for six hours each night, for a total of thirty-six hours a week. That simply wasn't legal in 1990, or now.

Maybe not, but I did it, got paid (a whopping $4.75/hour by the time I quit to attend college), and didn't have to flip burgers for spending money. The job also gave me plenty of time to do homework and read sci-fi.

Pictoral proof. The sad thing about the radio industry? By the end of my four years, the only person who had been at the station longer than me was the owner.
posted by mrbill at 1:31 PM on February 10, 2012


Ivan, perhaps I should have fleshed out my idea a little more, instead of leaving it so open as to allow a drive-by like your last line.

The two threads struck me as opposites in the communities reactions - specifically the number and direction of the people responding. In this thread, the great majority of people are reacting along the lines of 'this is a bad thing, and he is a bad person,' with mentions of calls to State authorities, the endless tropes of gun culture, links to abusive scenarios in MeFites pasts, etc. Many fewer people are saying things like ' I don't see much wrong with it, it would have happened in my family, the subject's reaction is understandable' etc.

In the other thread, the great majority of people reacted with amusement and glee at the series of photos, saying that either their family had done/would have done something similar, that it was a harmless prank, etc. A few posters vehemently objected, drawing comparisons to other, more sever boundary violations that they themselves had been on the receiving end of.

It's an interesting demonstration of post framing and initial community reaction dictating what people feel comfortable saying, and the directions a conversation can take.

/also, 'exploding hollowpoints' lol.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:40 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Honestly, I think what this father did was very stupid, but I'm a bit shocked at how self-righteous and presumptuous all the comments are on here. People are jumping to the (very serious) conclusion that he's beating his daughter or that he must be an abusive tyrant.

Judging from the description of his daughter's behavior, she seems to be pretty out of control and thoroughly spoiled. It always bothers me when people act as if this sort of obnoxious teenage behavior is considered normal behavior from a teenager. (I've been doing a lot of babysitting lately and I recently recoiled back in horror at hearing a 7 year old say to his mother "I hate you! You're a stinky head!" for not letting him have his stale Halloween candy for dinner, to which she simply shrugged as if this was an everyday routine.)

Yes, shooting a laptop and posting it on Youtube is going too far, and it strikes me as a bit immature. But seriously, accusations of psychological trauma and calling child services? If one of my parents had done this when I was a teenager, I would be more embarrassed than traumatized.
posted by adso at 1:43 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


The two threads struck me as opposites in the communities reactions

That's what happens when you have two posts about parenting choices that are in fact opposite.
posted by Snarl Furillo at 1:44 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


Pictoral proof. The sad thing about the radio industry?

No, the sad thing about the radio industry is that your call letters were literally pronounced THE CRYPT, in an era where metal was still alive, and it was a country station.
posted by Shepherd at 1:45 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


No, the sad thing about the radio industry is that your call letters were literally pronounced THE CRYPT, in an era where metal was still alive, and it was a country station.

Metal IS still alive.
posted by vorfeed at 1:45 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


He didn't destroy her computer, he KILLED it.

I hate to break this to you, but we have not yet created living sentient computers. Data is still hundreds of years in the future.

Shooting inanimate objects with guns can be quite fun. Of course, that's a different thing when it's something you're doing at a range for fun (blowing up cans, bottles, laptops, whatever) and something you're doing because you're pissed (although that's not really clear here, given that anything done like this is staged/acted).

Whether or not guns are a Big Deal to you depends, as many in this thread have commented, on your background. The public humiliation / acting like a child himself is what bothers me about this video. The gun is a complete non-issue.
posted by wildcrdj at 1:53 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


Somewhere out there is a parallel universe where a laptop-shaped king was trying to this man's freedoms and this video makes perfect sense.
posted by compartment at 1:56 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


(er, take this man's freedoms)
posted by compartment at 1:56 PM on February 10, 2012


Judging from the description of his daughter's behavior, she seems to be pretty out of control and thoroughly spoiled.

How does a kid get like that?
posted by Miko at 1:58 PM on February 10, 2012 [6 favorites]


This is nothing more than the dad being humiliated by her video and trying to mend his wounded pride by destroying the means by which his daughter humiliated him. Everything in the video reflects his humiliation. The extreme violence with which he destroyed the laptop reflects how deeply humiliated he was. It wasn't enough to take it away, to sell it, or throw it out. He had to shoot it. To prove that he's more powerful. That he's the tough guy.

This video is entirely about him proving that he's still in control. He's not. I know this because his daughter knew exactly how to humiliate him. She knows that what he cares about most is his pride. That's why he made this video wearing that stupid hat. Which means that something like this disrespect-humiliation cycle has happened before. It probably constantly happens. I bet you the only time he seriously disciplines her is when she humiliates him.

Kids complain about chores just like adults bitch about their jobs. The fact that she complains about them is an acknowledgement that she feels responsible for doing them. Otherwise, she wouldn't bitch about them, she just wouldn't do them. He knows this. But iots not important to him that she do her chores, its important for him that she keep quiet about not liking them or him for making her do them. His focus is on his social circle's perception of him.

Also, one more thing: He said mentioned that her actions reflect badly on her mother and stepmother, implying that he's divorced. He shot a gun with live rounds facing a moderately traffic road. This is a person who is not in control, not because they are wild and crazy, but they very calmly and deliberately arrive at terrible reckless decisions.

The smartest person in that family is the mother. She left.
posted by Pastabagel at 2:00 PM on February 10, 2012 [21 favorites]


Ummm... FAKE.

Yeah ... there is some skepticism out there.

MSNBC:
"The shooter, who identifies himself as Tommy Jordan from North Carolina, has not yet responded to requests for comment, so it's not possible to verify the authenticity of the stunt, in which he allegedly 'executed' the laptop after his daughter posted a profanity-laced note on her Facebook page."
posted by ericb at 2:00 PM on February 10, 2012


Whether or not guns are a Big Deal to you depends

Watch the video again. Notice the street traffic in the background. Notice which way he is facing when he pulls the trigger.
posted by Pastabagel at 2:01 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Apart from all the bad parenting cues that he just handed his daughter, what I cannot seem to understand is why a mature adult would think that publicizing a transgression with some humiliation thrown in would teach his daughter a lesson.

As far as I can tell that form of intimidation/punishment has never really worked, but perfectly normal adults keep doing this kind of shit.

Why?

There are so many way to educate his daughter about the consequences of such actions and he chose this. OTOH what difference would it have made if he had just kept shut? Eventually she would have gotten bored of the bitching and stopped and potentially come to regret the decision to post such material 10 years down the road when she went looking for jobs.

Is it really that hard to look at your kid doing something stupid and simply ignore it until it gets dangerous or you get a 'teachable moment' and use a calm conversation to address it.

- parent who counts down from 4 (3's too short for 4 year old girls)
posted by ding-dong at 2:02 PM on February 10, 2012


And look at how he overemphasizes how angry and disgusted he is. He crumples the paper, angrily, tosses his cigarette indignantly. What a baby.

Also, pistols in storytelling symbolize impotence. So there's that.
posted by Pastabagel at 2:06 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


Judging from the description of his daughter's behavior, she seems to be pretty out of control and thoroughly spoiled.

How does a kid get like that?


Probably that rock and roll, dancing, the hippity hop music, and the internets. How dare you suggest she learned if from her old man.
posted by birdherder at 2:06 PM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


Watch the video again.

Never. The real crime here is how long this dullard blathers on in a lame attempt to justify himself. Dude - if you really feel like it's okay to do this, just shut up and do it. The more you feel like you have to say in defense of your actions before you even do anything, the less I can believe that even you think it's a good idea.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:08 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


Pictoral proof. The sad thing about the radio industry? By the end of my four years, the only person who had been at the station longer than me was the owner.

Holy shit, were you the voice of The Outlaw? Or had they gone 100% automated by then and the guy that read those lines did so once a month for an hour or two from a studio in Nashville or something?
posted by birdherder at 2:13 PM on February 10, 2012


Even for me, this is why I don't see a gun discharged at a laptop on camera as being a threat of violence.

Except that he used it in anger. He admits that he was upset enough to curse in the video, something he himself felt he had to apologize for. It was all an emotional performance. You should never use a gun under the influence of powerful emotions like that. It shows & encourages extremely poor self control, a quality that doesn't mix at all well with gun ownership. Whatever the cultural differences, it was still a very bad way to handle the situation.
posted by scalefree at 2:14 PM on February 10, 2012 [7 favorites]


Seamus: "2. I learned this from the teacher with whom I student-taught. We all can benefit from examples of people doing things poorly as well as doing them well. I learned from this guy. I learned that I am not an impulsive dickwad and therefore am probably not going to end up in the same situation as him."

I learned that I *AM* an impulsive dickwad and THERE'S A REASON I DON'T HAVE A GUN!
posted by symbioid at 2:18 PM on February 10, 2012


Doleful Creature, I don't think the issue is just "OMG he used a gun!" For me, a big part of what makes the gun use an issue is that it is irresponsible gun use.
posted by asnider at 2:20 PM on February 10, 2012


Dude - if you really feel like it's okay to do this, just shut up and do it. The more you feel like you have to say in defense of your actions before you even do anything, the less I can believe that even you think it's a good idea.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:08 PM on February 10


It's isn't about shooting the laptop. It's all about showing you that he shoots the laptop. He needs you to see it, because the perception of you/the public is infinitely more important to him than his daughter's perception of him. Humiliation is about losing face to us, so it's to us that he has to reassert his masculinity, power, and control. What happens in the video is all secondary to the fact that he decidied to make one.
posted by Pastabagel at 2:22 PM on February 10, 2012 [10 favorites]


Huh, given the comments, I expected this to be a lot worse than it was. From people's reactions, I thought he'd tied her down and told her to shoot it herself or get shot. Jesus. I thought it was completely reasonable up until the shooting, which was melodramatic and over the top.

It's like people here haven't known teenagers, who can totally be little brats while having strict parents. I was a sarcastic, ungrateful little bitch and if I'd had FB I would totally have posted a rant like that. I remember specifically accusing my parents of treating me like a slave, which is ludicrous in retrospect. I was not in any sense spoiled except for the sports Walkman I got for my 12th birthday which totally rocked.
posted by desjardins at 2:25 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


I mouthed off about my parents, too, in a way that makes me cringe to think about now. How narcissistic and awful of me.

Thank God my parents were much too wise to think that was somehow about them.
posted by Miko at 2:29 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


zarq: "pjaust: " No humor intended."

Then I'm also seriously disturbed by your comment.
"

*ahem* from the profile of said Mr. "Non-Humor":

I sometimes write things in public forums assuming that everyone automagically knows that dark humor is how I cope. It's been known to get me in big trouble.

IOW - he's being a troll, and some of "y'all" are taking him a bit too seriously (the term "y'all" was my tip-off).

That said - as a kid who got spanked plenty of times and one time in particular that went into straight up abuse territory the bit about "the sound of a chamber loading" or whatever is kinda true. Well, not really -- but dad used to use his belt and "snap" it in a way together to let me know the belt was coming.

It certainly is a memory I carry. Not sure what I think of it. Maybe that's why I don't like using belts much, even if my pants sag too much.

Anyways, I can both find humor in pjaust's comment, be very upset at the idiocy of this guy (and feel sad and a bit miffed at the plenty of abused victims who continue the cycle without thinking what happened to them was wrong -- that's what bothers me so much -- people who think "I got spanked and I turned out *just fine*).
posted by symbioid at 2:30 PM on February 10, 2012


He admits that he was upset enough to curse in the video, something he himself felt he had to apologize for.

He apologized (at length) for using the word ass, where he hoped that his video would inspire other parents to "give their kids a boot up the ass."
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:30 PM on February 10, 2012


odinsdream: I apologize. I never meant to besmirch North Carolina. It was lazy and irresponsible framing of the argument on my part.

I retract most of what I said (except the stuff about my dad, and my own upbringing). I still think we're judging this guy a little harshly given what we know. Bad parenting moment forever on record thanks to the internet.

asnider: thanks for pointing out that your reaction was to the emotion while handling a gun. That makes sense, and I agree. I originally had the impression that there was a general OMG GUNS ARE EVIL thing going on in here, wanted to add a different perspective. I misjudged the situation.

Carry on.
posted by Doleful Creature at 2:32 PM on February 10, 2012


This seems appropriate:

"Look, you can't counter a profane command with an idle threat. You must extinguish it with a vulgar suggestion.

Anyhow, as an adult, you get respect by acting like an adult.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:34 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Maybe not, but I did it, got paid (a whopping $4.75/hour by the time I quit to attend college), and didn't have to flip burgers for spending money. The job also gave me plenty of time to do homework and read sci-fi."

A number of businesses, then and now, flout the child labor laws.

I also was a C&W commercial disc-jockey when I was young. Not while I was in high-school; but, rather, almost immediately after I graduated. Both the AM and FM stations were #1 in the ~60K population market (FM was automated, though people didn't realize it). It was my first full-time job, also six hours a day, six days a week. Overnight jock, from August of 1982 to September of 1983. Then I moved to Dallas. (And there I had a brief job at a radio production company.)

Anadarko is a way cooler name for the town you were in than Clovis (where I was), though.

Random trivia: it's been thirty years this year (almost) and I actually still have dreams where I'm in the control room and they've altered the board and I can't find the cart machine and the turntable is way over there and...there's dead air. Oddly, I don't ever dream about the dead air alarm going off, thank god.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:34 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


I still think we're judging this guy a little harshly given what we know. Bad parenting moment forever on record thanks to the internet.

But -- but -- the thing is - that is exactly the lesson he's purportedly supposed to be teaching his daughter: don't use the internet as your forum for behaving impulsively and inappropriately.

I think it's hard not to judge a little harshly when someone is actually doing the thing they're supposedly trying to teach someone else not to do. That shows it's not really about setting an expectation and example, but something a little more psychological in nature, as Pastabagel is arguing convincingly.
posted by Miko at 2:36 PM on February 10, 2012 [11 favorites]


Pastabagel: “He shot a gun with live rounds facing a moderately traffic road.”

He actually claimed they were exploding hollow-point rounds. Which are actually illegal in certain states.
posted by koeselitz at 2:38 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


I originally had the impression that there was a general OMG GUNS ARE EVIL thing going on in here, wanted to add a different perspective.

I appreciate your feeling out that perspective but did want to speak up that I don't think that's what fuels the condemnation of this guy's gun use. If anything, my experience with guns is exactly what caused me to gasp the way I did when I saw what he intended to do.

Though there were always guns in the house where I grew up, they resided in their cabinets or cases unless one of two things was going on: someone was going hunting, or someone was going target shooting. Then they were carefully brought out, unlocked, checked and rechecked for a load or spent ammunition, cleaned, prepared, and transported to the location they were going to be used (which was not somebody's backyard). While being used, we got repeated reminders about gun safety, where to stand, how to hold the gun both in use and at rest, avoid gesturing with it, run through routine safety habits each and every time, check and clean it after using, check it again, store it away. Every interaction with a gun was one of serious focus and respect in which all participants were kept mindful of the potential harm the weapons can cause. At no time were guns brought out because somebody was pissed off or wanted to make a show.

It may not have hurt that my dad and grandfather, who taught us about guns, were both actual war veterans who had some actual idea of what guns could do and the best way to handle them.

As much as I detest the NRA, this is one thing they get right: there's a way responsible gun ownership looks and acts, and this guy's demonstration is emphatically not it.
posted by Miko at 2:42 PM on February 10, 2012 [10 favorites]


I seriously doubt they were actually explosive rounds, as they would cost much more than $1 each, and it is incredibly unlikely that he was using them in a youtube video to make a point.

Hollowpoints are only illegal in Jew Jersey, and even that is pretty qualified.

This man is not a responsible gun owner, and I'm sad that this is the view that many people will remember when thinking of 'gun owners' as a group.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:45 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


roboton666: "I guess on my spectrum, we have this dad ^, compared to this dad ->

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/josh-powell-murder-suicide-young-sons.html

I'm trying to keep perspective on the "fucked up parents" continuum.
"

And what was "this dad->" like BEFORE he became "this dad->"? Was he possibly somewhat like "this dad^"? This doesn't mean "this dad^" will become "this dad->" but it's quite probably that "this dad->" was more like "this dad^" than, say "<>" but maybe "this dad^" will have a child who ends up turning into "this dad->". Maybe nothing will happen.

And you say "spectrum" as if the ends of the spectrum lie with "this dad^" and "this dad->" but you seem to leave out that there's "<-this dad" who set the bar at the other end that "this dad^" could aspire to.

I think I just invented a new programming language with your help.
posted by symbioid at 2:46 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


It's been my observation since I was a teenager myself that by the time your child is a teenager, any notion of "control" of their behavior is almost entirely illusory. Any influence you could possibly have on the decisions they're making now when they're teenagers was 95% the result of parenting decisions you made before they became teenagers. At the teenager stage, it's more like driving a vehicle on ice—gentle nudges and suggestions and a lot of caution and even then accidents are likely.

Parents with teenagers who parent like this guy are exactly like people who slam on the brakes when they're driving on ice, usually after driving too quickly and aggressively. Everything goes out of control, things get damaged, people are hurt, and they blame the car and the weather.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:50 PM on February 10, 2012 [11 favorites]


Hollowpoints are only illegal in Jew Jersey, and even that is pretty qualified.

I'm assuming there is a typo in there. If I'm wrong, do let me know.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:56 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Echoing what was said above...this doesn't seem like a responsible use of a firearm to me. But I'm guessing he doesn't think of himself as an irresponsible gun owner. Probably the opposite.
posted by malocchio at 2:56 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


He apologized (at length) for using the word ass, where he hoped that his video would inspire other parents to "give their kids a boot up the ass."

Which may be mild to you & me, but it was in the context of a different culture that doesn't totemize guns but does totemize bad language, as evidenced by his lengthy apology. He was upset & emotional; that's the last time you want someone to be handling a firearm. What if she'd seen what was happening & dashed out to stop him? You don't use a gun under the influence of powerful emotions. Bad judgment for him, bad lesson for her, bad influence on a very large audience.
posted by scalefree at 3:04 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


Kirth, you know that thing when you proofread, and your mind substitutes what you meant to say with what you actually said?

Yeah, that was a a typo. I apologize for not reading more closely.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:05 PM on February 10, 2012


I can't watch this shit because my 'dad' liked to intimidate us with violence. And guns, but I'm not really going to get into that here. All I can say is if this is behavior he's proud of and will post publicly then I'm deeply concerned with what's going on behind closed doors.

That poor kid. I hope she gets out safe and doesn't go too far off the rails when she gets her first taste of freedom.
posted by Space Kitty at 3:12 PM on February 10, 2012 [4 favorites]


Mefites, I am disappointed. 207 comments and so far not one

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by zardoz at 3:14 PM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


One of the worst parts of this is that, whenever you Google the daughter's name in the foreseeable future, the top hits are probably going to be about how she posted supposedly immature rants on Facebook. Given how many people are sympathizing with the father, I wouldn't put it past employers to care about something like this when she's looking for a job.

Parents are supposed to protect their children from having their reputations destroyed on the Internet.
posted by Ralston McTodd at 3:17 PM on February 10, 2012 [10 favorites]


Anyhow, the gun is hardly the main point here. He could have destroyed the computer any way he wanted to - axe, hammer, dropped it in water, forced it to play on the Minnesota Viking's secondary.

The point here is that his response to his teenager being childish and immature was to act childish and immature himself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't tell people who to raise their kids, but the preponderance of evidence suggests that this is not an effective parenting style. In fact, since it models the very behavior it seeks to correct, he's actually unwittingly encouraging her to act the very way he's claiming that he doesn't want her to act.

That point has been made before. Its satisfying and crowd pleasing to do something crazy and spiteful in response to poor behavior, but that doesn't necessarily make it an effective deterrent or parenting technique.

Furthermore, his testimony that his daughter is fine and responding in the way he intended to his video neither proves nor disproves its effectiveness. One suspects that the lesson she's more likely learned here is to be more cautious in how she expresses her displeasure regarding her parents, particularly her father. This punishment isn't likely going to magically make her see the error of her ways or change her attitude.

It might, however, make her say "yes, daddy, of course you're correct." It probably won't make her believe it, though.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:26 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


There was some suggestion that my concerns about violence stemmed from use of the gun. While I see a gun as lethal force, I did grow up in a (Canadian) community where many people had guns.

I also grew up where my dad put his fist through a wall because he was so mad at me. That's domestic violence and so were all the smacks I got when I was growing up, including when my mom smacked me across the face at 17. Of course, it was hard to tell that was violent because it was my parents doing it and....Well, let's see. The guy next door had posters all over his walls and doors to cover the holes. And the guy across the street just beat the crap out of his girlfriend in the front yard. So did the guy next to him and the guy across the street from there. My next door neighbours on the other side were too busy smacking their kids while washing their mouths out with genuine soap. And then there was the house two behind us where you could hear the kids and mom screaming for bloody mercy and the sound of something hitting skin when the dad got off shift. And then there was my best friend who ran away at 15 so nobody would hit him anymore. And a whole bunch of other abusive situations in my surroundings. So when I ran into actual violence in my adult relationships, it was really hard to identify it. When you grow up in a culture of violence, it's easy to sweep away something like blowing up a laptop. Fortunately, I've gained more clarity in my middle age.

And so, if what this guy is doing is real, someone should be examining what he's doing more. It's emotionally abusive and it's violent. Even if he'd taken a sledge hammer or a fist or a truck to the laptop, it's violent.
posted by Chaussette and the Pussy Cats at 3:29 PM on February 10, 2012 [11 favorites]


My first thought upon opening the vid is "Oh man, the fool is going to be shooting in a residential area ?!?" Hearing that he used hollow-points took some of the sting off of that, as there is a much, much better chance of them opening out and just sticking into the ground. Had he used jacketed .45 slugs, it's copper-coated lead, it's hard, rounded in front, and almost certainly will dig deeply into the dirt, expend their energy there. Sum: it'd be better to shoot hollow points than jacketed slugs, in doing what he did.

But it's not a good plan to shoot any bullet in that area, especially with no backstop. Though he was on a fairly steep angle, it wasn't like he was shooting directly down into the dirt, and any good sized stone could easily have deflected one or more of those bullets, et them sailing who knows where. Here's where: in pretty much any direction facing away from him, from pretty much straight up to a long angle.

Those slugs are big, almost half inch round (.45 inch) and at least as deep as they are round. In hollow points, they look like ashtrays. Bullets move fast and go far. Could have gone anywhere. Into a house, a car, a dog, a kid, your wife, if you lived there. Odds against it are very high, but it is there.


I"m sure he had no idea it'd take off as it did. Regardless he's in IT, it seems that he doesn't understand the internet; probably he should have consulted his daughter before he hit "Enter" and posted it.
posted by dancestoblue at 3:32 PM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


From the father's Facebook today:

Yes, I've already dealt with the local police, who by the way said "From our entire department, Kudo's to you, sir."

Now I'm letting my daughter have her interview with Social Services, so they too can be satisfied that I don't yell at her, beat her, traumatize her, lock her in a closet without food, deprive her of basic human rights, make her cut the grass with scizzors, hunt for her meals in the wild with only a spork, or otherwise fail to provide for my daughter.


shakingmydamnhead.gif
posted by ShawnStruck at 4:01 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, I've diagnosed so many previously unnoticed psychological conditions in absolute strangers. Again, thanks to the perceptive community right here.
The assumption that this guy's behavior is "unnoticed" doesn't seem terribly likely to be true to me.
posted by Flunkie at 4:08 PM on February 10, 2012


Oh man, this guy does not know that weapon at all.

I just watched him shoot again — it's a single action automatic pistol, which by design is cocked and ready to shoot again after each shot, ready to shoot again with just a small pressure on the trigger. Also, just by the design of this pistol, you can easily tell when the clip is emptied of bullets, because after the last shot is fired, the slide stays open.

Yet he didn't know that his pistol still had bullets in it, ready to fire with just that slight pressure on the trigger.

He says "An' if I got one left..." and he did, and shot it.

And then he notices that the slide is closed again, and the pistol was cocked, and he says "Hey, I got another one!" in a tone of wonder and happiness. And then he shot that, his last round.

I'm not going to go so far as to say that he was waving the gun around carelessly; I will say that he did not treat that circumstance seriously at all. Notice that the gun -- loaded, cocked -- is clearly not on target as he walks, notice also that the angle as he speaks is dangerously low, that the loaded gun is definitely pointed toward houses.

And it is perfectly clear that he does not know that weapon.

At the very least, I'd think that he should get a visit from the local cops to explain some things, also that the neighborhood insist he take gun safety course(s), maybe one a general course, one a specific course covering that particular weapon.
posted by dancestoblue at 4:13 PM on February 10, 2012 [12 favorites]


No, the sad thing about the radio industry is that your call letters were literally pronounced THE CRYPT, in an era where metal was still alive, and it was a country station.
Metal IS still alive.
METAL IS STILL UNDEAD
posted by Flunkie at 4:13 PM on February 10, 2012


From the father's Facebook today:

Ugh.

dancestoblue, I am really appreciating your take on the gun safety issues involved here, but I couldn't disagree with you more about him not understanding the internet. He seems to be using it pretty effectively to shame his daughter and grandstand as some kind of Alpha Dad folk hero.

I'm gonna go ahead and diagnose this guy, psychology-wise: anybody who would drag his fifteen year old daughter's disciplinary problems out onto the internet and make a public spectacle out of destroying something which we can assume had considerable worth to her, and then go around revelling in the resultant attention, must feel like a really insignificant little pissant somewhere deep down inside.

I am really, really hoping this turns out to be a viral marketing campaign for a new kind of Toughbook or something.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:24 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I'd just like to point out that John Wayne and Ronald Reagan lived in California, home of the nation's most restrictive gun laws.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 4:28 PM on February 10, 2012


Dimly funny. I hope his daughter isn't of the escalating kind too.
posted by nicolin at 4:33 PM on February 10, 2012


It caused them to feel humiliated, especially our very very good friend, who is NOT a cleaning lady by any stretch of the imagination!

I'm not surprised that he makes a show out of being sorry for using the word ass, which doesn't hurt anyone, yet he implies that cleaning for a living is humiliating.
posted by ersatz at 4:46 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


ShawnStruck: "Now I'm letting my daughter have her interview with Social Services"

Good. If the situation at home is fine, then it can't hurt to let her talk to them. If all isn't well at home, they'll explain to her that she has options. That's the way it should be.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't get it or if he jokes about CPS. If she needs help, then she should know how she can get it.
posted by zarq at 4:48 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


adso: "Honestly, I think what this father did was very stupid, but I'm a bit shocked at how self-righteous and presumptuous all the comments are on here. People are jumping to the (very serious) conclusion that he's beating his daughter or that he must be an abusive tyrant. "


Personally, I just think he's a dick.

Also:

MikeWarot: "A gun is a tool, it destroys things, or disables them. I don't see why his choice of a tool matters to anyone, as it was done in a safe manner, in a safe location."

I suppose if the tool had been an iron maiden, a bullwhip and handcuffs, or a trebuchet, it would have had a different vibe to the whole spectacle; there's still a point being made by the choice of "tool".


As well as his dickish attitude, frankly.
posted by Red Loop at 4:49 PM on February 10, 2012


your call letters were literally pronounced THE CRYPT, in an era where metal was still alive, and it was a country station

I listened to 100.5 the KATT out of OKC when I wasn't at work. I still don't listen to country music even today.

Holy shit, were you the voice of The Outlaw? Or had they gone 100% automated by then and the guy that read those lines did so once a month for an hour or two from a studio in Nashville or something?

It wasn't The Outlaw back then - the call letters/license have been sold a couple of times and now belongs to the station in San Antonio I think. However, I did start out "running the board" and playing recordings of someone else announcing and doing the weather, eventually with them letting me just do it live.

I'm in the control room and they've altered the board and I can't find the cart machine and the turntable is way over there and...there's dead air.

I got good at putting carts back together after they got dropped and bits went EVERYWHERE, especially if it was the top-of-the-hour station ID one.

Non-radio people: look at the picture, see the things that look like 8-track tapes? Endless-loop tape "carts" that were used for everything from station IDs to commercials. 50s technology that was unchanged at least 40 years later, and the cart machines I used were most likely older than I was at the time.

During my tenure, we (finally) went all-CD, and then automated CDs (a huge 19" rack full of 18-disc changers full of compilation discs), and then had a 386 system with multiple terminals where (most of) the commercials were digitized onto HD. See the monitor? Monochrome text, baby. You can also see a half-rack full of the CD changers behind me under the window.
posted by mrbill at 4:50 PM on February 10, 2012


What an abusive dip shit of an excuse for a father.
posted by LarryC at 5:00 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


Good. If the situation at home is fine, then it can't hurt to let her talk to them. If all isn't well at home, they'll explain to her that she has options. That's the way it should be . . .

I dunno, man. The local PD, to my total lack of surprise, is behind him all the way. I can just hope that one of the CPS workers is aware that "emotional abuse" is in fact a thing.

This triggered me hard. My dad threatened to do this to my things when I was fourteen or fifteen, and I'd said something whiny on a bad day. I'll never forget his completely calm, almost amiable face when he turned to me and said, "Well, why don't I take your TV out in the alley and back over it three or four times?" I could have been made to feel bad for whining -- instead I felt wretched, unsafe, truly bad. I didn't know that he wouldn't do that; in fact, I still don't know that he wouldn't have if I hadn't caved in right away. I knew it was his right. I cried all afternoon. Did I make any more whiny remarks that day? No. Did I have major boundary issues and problems asserting myself as a teenager? Yes. Now my dad is a good man, for all that, and he never did anything of the kind. This man did.

The poor girl is in an emotional defense state now, and it may be ten years before she realizes what was wrong with this dynamic -- if she ever does.
posted by Countess Elena at 5:11 PM on February 10, 2012 [9 favorites]


This is totally insane parenting. A quiet word would have been enough - not a public display. The use of a gun is simply chilling. How could any parent think that publicly shooting a child's property is a good lesson. It sends so many wrong messages that it is beyond belief.

Tangent: One other thing that no one seems to have mentioned in comments above is gun safety in relation to the number of rounds fired. One thing i was taught in the limited experience of guns was to ALWAYS know how many rounds were left. No matter what. i've seen intense police and military training videos where they make students go through intense gun battles and at the end they have to yell out how many round are still in their magazines.

My first thought as I watched... "Good god, he has a gun. He's shooting her laptop? He has no idea how many round are in the gun?????" This, even more than all the other insanity is proof that he is irresponsible.
posted by greenhornet at 5:29 PM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


Anyhow, the gun is hardly the main point here.

You can have your main point & I can have mine. The place is big enough for both, I think.
posted by scalefree at 5:43 PM on February 10, 2012


METAL IS STILL UNDEAD

Undead or Un dead?
posted by scalefree at 5:46 PM on February 10, 2012


You can have your main point & I can have mine. The place is big enough for both, I think.

If your point is that without the gun, this wouldn't be shitty parenting, then we are in profound disagreement.

If your point is the shittiest aspect of this is the gun, then we don't actually disagree that much.

If your point is that this is an alarming example of irresponsible gun use - a separate issue from the shitty parenting - that could have had a disastrous impact on his community, then I tend to agree with you.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:01 PM on February 10, 2012


dancestoblue: "I"m sure he had no idea it'd take off as it did. Regardless he's in IT, it seems that he doesn't understand the internet; probably he should have consulted his daughter before he hit "Enter" and posted it."

prize bull octorok: "dancestoblue, I am really appreciating your take on the gun safety issues involved here, but I couldn't disagree with you more about him not understanding the internet. He seems to be using it pretty effectively to shame his daughter and grandstand as some kind of Alpha Dad folk hero."

Having read what you wrote, and considering it, I agree with you, that I was almost certainly incorrect. I wrote what I did after reading every entry in this thread, and nothing else anywhere online; the responses here no doubt colored my view as to how this thing is seen out of here.
posted by dancestoblue at 6:15 PM on February 10, 2012


So... he says he is going to charge his daughter for the $130 worth of software he installed on her laptop. But, did he leave the instal disks in the drive when he shot the computer? I think that's his bad if he did, and if he didn't, then he really hasn't destroyed the software - I'm not sure why she should be charged for that.
posted by robot rex at 6:17 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


In redneck subculture this guy is a hero.

That was his perceived audience.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:18 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


If your point is that without the gun, this wouldn't be shitty parenting, then we are in profound disagreement.

If your point is the shittiest aspect of this is the gun, then we don't actually disagree that much.

If your point is that this is an alarming example of irresponsible gun use - a separate issue from the shitty parenting - that could have had a disastrous impact on his community, then I tend to agree with you.


2 & 3, definitely. I'm not diminishing anyone else's emphasis, I just don't want them to diminish mine.
posted by scalefree at 6:31 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


As someone who grew up in Texas, I always feel a bit icky about the way people with the cowboy look are portrayed. I think it is unfair. Even so... you're not doing yourself any favors with the hat.
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:33 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


In redneck subculture this guy is a hero.

Mammas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Jackasses
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:46 PM on February 10, 2012 [2 favorites]


There are a segment of parents who treat, perhaps believe, that their children are possessions; i.e, "I own you. You will do what I say. I brought you in to this world, I can take you back out of it."

To those people; this man is hero. He showed that little brat who was boss, he sure did.

For those people who have never lived with or near those parents, this sort of behavior is completely unhinged.

This video bothered me for a few reasons, most of which have been elucidated here clearly and well. But on the gun issue, I want to chime in and say that, as a rule, I'm pro-gun. I was raised with guns, I have guns, I don't think I've ever lived anywhere that didn't have at least one gun safe. That man shouldn't be allowed anywhere near guns.

There's a reason that you can't shoot hollow-points at most ranges; because they're known fragmenters unless they're going into soft targets. They're designed to work in soft tissue, which forces the soft point to "mushroom", causing a larger exit wound than entrance wound. Without soft tissue, it doesn't mushroom, it fragments.

Close range, into a metal box, at an angle, with a hollow-point is just pure stupid. And someone who doesn't know how many bullets are in their gun, and who holds a loaded gun the way he does...seriously, that man shouldn't be allowed to have a cap pistol. All he knows about weapons he learned from watching Dirty Harry movies.

That this moron was willing to risk the lives of everyone within ricochet distance of that ammunition, was willing to fire that caliber of weapon in a populated area with no backstop, was willing to use a weapon of any type TO MAKE A POINT, all so he could prove to his daughter and her friends how big his dick is, is all the proof I need to know that this man is a menace.
posted by dejah420 at 7:01 PM on February 10, 2012 [14 favorites]


I keep going on about this I know but it's important, or so it seems to me, Flag it if it's too much.

Knowing your backdrop is important. I learned about this in part from an experience I had in the desert, northern Arizona, a .357 handgun, with a solid background; literally, a hill. Safe as church. We're having fun -- shooting is really fun -- but then after one shot, a tree limb -- about twice the size of my thumb, good sized pine limb -- that limb dropped, instantly. Like it was lopped.

Which in fact it was. A stone in that hill, or two stones, who knows, turned that damn bullet easy as I turn the steering wheel. That tree limb was almost directly overhead the backdrop I'd fired against, just a bit behind, a bit to the right, 15, maybe 20 foot overhead.

I'm like "Holy fucking dogshit!"

Here's the news: had it not hit that limb, I'd not even have known about it. And who knows how many other bullets sailed off, and in what direction. It woke my ass UP. No one could have gotten killed -- we were in the damn desert -- but who knows where the bullets that this guy shot took off too? He doesn't. He thinks he knows, but he doesn't, especially shooting from an angle. Almost certainly, if we dig a few feet, we'll find every one of those bullets. I'd bet a hundred bucks against your ten, hell, against your five. But ...

Most lessons learned don't kill people, seems life has margin for operator error. (See: anyone who has ever driven drunk, anyone who's texted while at the wheel, anyone who's married a red-headed woman, etc.) The problem with guns is that when you do have an operator error, it can be a very, very unhappy experience for all involved, and not just a dented bumper.
posted by dancestoblue at 7:02 PM on February 10, 2012 [3 favorites]


I think it would be great to see the age of every righteous person here and if they ever raised or dealt with a (stupid) teenager themselves on a daily basis.

i'm 54 - my teenaged daughter has done much worse things than post disparaging remarks about me on a facebook page, things that could have resulted in juvenile detention time if she were not autistic and struggling to cope with society's rules and her own impulses, and given some slack by authorities for this

not going into the details of it all, but i had to be very tough with her while making sure she understood why what she did was wrong, what the consequences could be, how miserable those consequences could be, and how my giving her my own lesser, but still unpleasant consequences was my not being mean to her, but trying to motivate her to avoid trouble i might not be able to get her out of next time - all while trying to teach her coping skills and anger management skills that would help her control her impulses

it was hard on and off for a year, but i got through to her and she is now regarded as well-liked and well-behaved at school

gun nut dad doesn't know what a REAL problem with a kid is

gun nut dad doesn't have enough insight into himself to have any damn insight into his daughter

gun nut dad can't control himself much less a 15 year old kid - and you don't control them anyway, but teach them to behave in their own best interests

gun nut dad can't deal with the fact that his daughter has feelings and thoughts of her own and often expresses them in ways that is offensive to him - but being offended by them is HIS choice, not hers - she's letting off steam, don't take it so damned personal

gun nut dad, above all, doesn't understand that he is so damned lucky that the WORST problem he has with his kid is that she tends to be a spoiled brat - instead of someone who has a life long disability that forces them to struggle with social rules that most of us deal with naturally

he should be grateful

instead he's shooting shit up and posting it on the internet
posted by pyramid termite at 7:06 PM on February 10, 2012 [24 favorites]


You know, speaking as someone who spent a couple of years as a cleaning lady, I think it would be nice if maybe he didn't treat a job description as if it was some kind of horrifying insult.

Not that the child's letter isn't petty and childish all on its own, mind you, but you expect that sort of short sightedness from 15 year olds.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:08 PM on February 10, 2012 [5 favorites]


ick
posted by pyramid termite at 7:08 PM on February 10, 2012


Christ, what an asshole.

Of all the classist, racist shit that ends up on "parenting fail" sites, this really belongs there.
posted by clvrmnky at 7:12 PM on February 10, 2012


This is incredibly upsetting to me. I had parents destroy things I cared about as "punishment". I had parents invade my privacy by reading my diary (back in the day of paper diaries). That taught me to hide everything and care about very little.

A "lesson" taught with violence and destruction isn't a lesson. It's a threat.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 8:35 PM on February 10, 2012 [15 favorites]


Yes, yes, yes. You're all awesome upstanding citizens and wonderful parents.

When we were growing up my cousin was a stealth biter. He would bite me without warning and so quickly that no one saw. It made hanging out with him a living nightmare.
One day he bit me and his father saw for the first time his father saw. He came over, took my cousins arm and bit. In that instant my cousin knew what he was doing and knew the repercussions. He never bit me again.

Different things work for different families. He did what he did. The girl learnt her lesson. A human improved through an unconventional lesson.
posted by AzzaMcKazza at 9:54 PM on February 10, 2012


Re:the spectrum of shitty parenting, shitty parents slide up and down that thing all damn day long, some days they really do feel like they could just slap the shit out that little bastard of an ungrateful kid of theirs, other days they get out their gun and start shooting things.

On the worst days they murder their kids with hatchets and blow the house up.

I'm really hit hard by the Powell murders, and I have nothing emotional to expend on this particular issue.
posted by roboton666 at 10:13 PM on February 10, 2012 [1 favorite]


 He came over, took my cousins arm and bit.

See, in my backwards land of conventional parenting, that would be called child abuse. Saying it was ok to do that because it corrected the behavior in an unconventional way would be called 'defending child abuse.'
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:49 AM on February 11, 2012 [8 favorites]


The girl learnt her lesson.

On what evidence do you base this statement?

What lesson do you believe she may have learned?

Please describe, and show your work.
posted by Miko at 6:21 AM on February 11, 2012 [8 favorites]


My ladyfriend has just pointed out that that laptop looks suspiciously ancient. I'm not the type to know about these types of things, so anyone care to comment on the matter? If it was a machine from the stone age, would putting "$130" worth of software on it be worth the price? For what the poor girl probably uses a computer for (internet-related activities, word processing, possibly little else) wouldn't just buying a new or slightly used netbook be a better use of a similar amount of money? What software would cost $130 that he might've felt the need to install on his daughter's computer? Why am I asking so many questions? Why can I no longer sleep in on the rare day when I'm given the opportunity, leading to me asking barely coherent strings of questions at this hour on a Saturday morning?
posted by item at 6:35 AM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]


What software would cost $130 that he might've felt the need to install on his daughter's computer?

Probably Microsoft Office: Home and Student - a 3-PC license costs about $130. Although there should be no extra cost to put it on a new laptop. However, this guy may not be the sharpest tool in the shed*, so perhaps he hasn't worked this out yet.

*The shed full of tools for destroying your daughter's possessions on YouTube.
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:37 AM on February 11, 2012


Last night, my mother (who lives in North Carolina) called and over the course of our conversation, she told me that one of her inlaws had shared this video on his own Facebook feed. Mom was pretty upset about it, both worried about the daughter of the man in the video and also, by extension, slightly concerned about the kids of anyone who would publicly and enthusiastically endorse this kind of parental behavior. My mom's not perfect. But she's pretty great. And I feel very lucky to have had the kind of parent that thinks this kind of parenting is despicable. (Thanks Mom).
posted by thivaia at 11:26 AM on February 11, 2012 [4 favorites]


Funny how people would be too good to discuss this kind of stuff that is on Nancy Grace but if it's on the Internet, well then it's fair game.
posted by smackfu at 11:33 AM on February 11, 2012


He' has over 14,000,000 views on this video. That's a pretty good chunk of change if he's in their partner program.
posted by the_artificer at 1:11 PM on February 11, 2012


I'm not convinced it wasn't a put-on myself.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:41 PM on February 11, 2012


I see people saying "She was just having teenage angst" - while I may have had plenty of that growing up, one thing I did NOT do was ever disrespect my parents, elders, or other relatives.

IMO, you should not expect respect because of age or perceived seniority. Respect is something that you should earn.

This motherfucker doesn't deserve any respect, because he's a douche and a bully. Want respect from your daughter? Try respecting her, arsehole. God forbid she have thoughts and feelings.

He doesn't deserve any respect from anyone, let alone from his daughter. I hope she has a good life once she's old enough to get away from this tool.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 8:11 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]


From the father's facebook, regarding calling CPS or the authorities. Bolding is mine:

For those that feel the need to keep calling the police and CPS. lol

Apparently both the local police and the department of social services are OK with it. Yes they came. Of course they came. They received enough "Oh my god he's going to kill his daughter" comments that they had to. I knew that the moment it went viral.. it was too late and it was inevitable. I'm only surprised it took as long as it did to be honest.

The police by the way said "Kudos, Sir" and most of them made their kids watch it. I actually had a "thank you" from an entire detectives squad. And another police officer is using it in a positive manner in his presentation for the school system. How's about those apples? Didn't expect THAT when you called the cops did you?

The kind lady from Child Protective Services looked all through the house, the yard, and found ours to be a healthy home. She saw the unloaded guns in their rack with the magazines removed and stored separately and safely. Funny thing: The case officer asked to see "the gun".... "Umm, sir, may I see the actual..umm.. weapon used for the video?" She wasn't at all scared of me but I could tell she doesn't like guns as a general rule. To each their own though. She was comfortable that I was adhering to NC gun safety regulations for the protection of minors, and that's all she needed. But of course if you want to continue, I'm just going to leave a pot of coffee on for the next officers who come by....

She asked if I minded if she interviewed my daughter privately but that I didn't have to agree. I let her meet in private and then she and I met for about an hour and a half. At the end of the day, no I'm not losing my kids, no one's in danger of being ripped from our home that I know of, and I actually got to spend some time with the nice lady and learn some cool parenting tips that I didn't know.. I use them on my 8 year old son, but not on my fifteen year old daughter.. but now I will! There were a few things I thought she was "too old" for, but after talking to the case worker, I feel like it's worth a shot to try them. Maybe I'll sell those secrets in my next book! (Seriously? You just got mad didn't you? I'm kidding. Besides, that would still only give me two pages of material- one parent tip page and one page on handgun selection techniques appropriate for different electronic destructive purposes.)

posted by ShawnStruck at 11:00 PM on February 11, 2012


Did people think they were going to take his kids away or something??? That's nuts.
posted by smackfu at 7:46 AM on February 12, 2012 [1 favorite]


learn some cool parenting tips that I didn't know

One positive outcome.

He still seems both exceedingly thrilled with all the attention and very concerned with how he appears in others' eyes.
posted by Miko at 11:24 AM on February 12, 2012


Oh, here's the other thing. I am still uncomfortable with the entire story because I have yet to see a single source on the entire issue, including in the abundant MSM coverage, that does not originate with him. Most simply quote whatever he is saying on FB or YouTube. THat's something, but it's not the same thing as verifiable claims. I still share lots of doubts that there is a daughter, and certainly doubts about cops using the video in schools (I think there are a fair amount of barriers to this and that it would have to go on record as real at some point - releases, etc).

It's just - we still have no evidence that it's not all contrived.
posted by Miko at 11:29 AM on February 12, 2012 [1 favorite]


It'd be kindof great to get this guy and Joe The Plumber and Sarah Palin and maybe Nancy Reagan into a steamy Republican sex video, they could all wear heavy tool belts festooned with plumbing tools and guns and shit, and Sarah Palin glasses, and Nancy could talk about not using drugs except maybe for viagra, I'm thinking it could be really hot, Nancy and Sarah jumping up and down in tight black leather underpants beating on the guys with car antennas and stuff, telling them to vote for Gingrich, etc...
posted by dancestoblue at 1:01 PM on February 12, 2012


For those that feel the need to keep calling the police and CPS. lol

Apparently both the local police and the department of social services are OK with it. Yes they came. Of course they came.


This is exactly what I would declare if I wanted to forestall people on the internet calling the police and CPS in my jurisdiction.

I'm not saying it is out of the realm of possibility that they showed up and thought things were fine, but we have only this frootloop's word for everything we think we know about the situation.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:06 PM on February 12, 2012


Judging from the cops I know that part to me is believable.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:54 PM on February 12, 2012


I'd believe that the cops thought it wasn't a problem for them to deal with, I don't believe a cop would use it in a presentation for teenagers. Even if I could imagine what kind of presentation a cop might be giving where this video would be even vaguely useful or appropriate, there's no way schools in even the most gunhappy states are going to have cops come in and advocate people shooting random objects.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:12 PM on February 12, 2012 [2 favorites]


If I cared a lot more I would be all over this - calling the schools in the town and following up on that claim, calling the cops to ask for independent verification that they'd been out there, etc. I don't really have time for this, but then I'm not a reporter. But it bugs me that no actual reporters seem to have time for it, either, despite accepting payment, apparently, for filing stories about the guy for which the only source they bothered to consult is his own FB page.

I also am having a hard time believing that no one of the daughter's presumably couple hundred Facebook friends (as just about 15 year olds I know seem to have) managed to say "whoa, Hannah's father went apeshit online about that post she made!" and found or shared some other Hannah material or even their own comments in response with the world. People all over the world seem to care, but what about people from within the community? Crickets? Really? Just...really hard to believe nothing else has surfaced.
posted by Miko at 7:08 PM on February 12, 2012 [1 favorite]


Judging from the cops I know that part to me is believable.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. Unless he'd actually hit something, they're not going to waste the time and paperwork on this. I seriously doubt though that he's gotten all those kudos - I'm kind of waiting to see if there's an outcry over that and their PR people have to "say something".

As for the redneck "hero" aspect - I know a lot of self-proclaimed rednecks that think he's a fool for 1) being on Facebook, 2) his temper tantrum, and 3) continuing to post on FB.

OTOH, I know a lot of city-based redneck wannabes who think he is a "hero".

And yeah, Miko, I'm with you on the crickets sounding locally. This is pretty fishy, but he's not wanting anything but attention, so it's hard to care enough to really dig.

The one thing I am curious about is his age - I find myself wanting to confirm that people raise their kids to the age they were when they had them. I'm nearly certain he hasn't hit 40.
posted by lysdexic at 9:18 AM on February 13, 2012


city-based redneck wannabes

1. is "redneck" a racial pejorative?
2. are you talking about L.A.?
posted by mrgrimm at 9:41 AM on February 13, 2012


Laptop-shooting dad, after 21 million views, says he'd do it over again
.... Jordan has also used his newfound fame to publicly endorse a website in which he has a financial internet, a classified-ad service called Another Man's Junk. He's encouraged visitors to donate money to the Muscular Dystrophy Association and says he's helped raise $5,000.  And, he's monetized some of that YouTube traffic by adding an advertisement at the beginning of the now famous video.

"To those who are pissed because the copyright statements are on the video and it's been monetized.... well, I've got to pay for the attorney's somehow. Get over it," he wrote on his Facebook wall on Saturday.

He needs lawyers because Jordan's opened a Pandora's Box with his video. There is a small army of imitators making parodies, and Jordon expressed fear that some parent may carry gun-wielding discipline too far, and he might get blamed. He's also instructed lawyers to protect his copyrights and threatened to sue others who repost his video without attribution. He's facing some Internet-style harassment himself -- someone posted a good bit of personal information about him on a website.

.... Despite the surprising notoriety, Jordan said he'd do it all over again in a statement designed to answer questions posed by reporters. (He’s so far not responded to msnbc.com’s request for an interview.)

“If I had it to do again... let's see... I'd do it almost the same," he wrote on his Facebook page in a note addressed to Anita Li of the Toronto Star. He wouldn't be smoking in the video, he said, then added, "I'd have worn my Silverbelly Stetson, not my Tilley hat, if I'd known that image was going to follow me the rest of my life and I'd probably have cleaned my boots. That's it."
Something's fishy. Yeah ... where is there real verification for this stunt? He won't speak directly to media; only by way of Facebook postings.
posted by ericb at 9:46 AM on February 13, 2012 [1 favorite]


Even if it's the case that everyone in this future gets 15 minutes of fame, I wish there were a way to ensure that it's limited to just 15 minutes.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 10:06 AM on February 13, 2012 [4 favorites]



city-based redneck wannabes

1. is "redneck" a racial pejorative?
2. are you talking about L.A.?

1. No. For me a looong time ago, "redneck" meant "ignorant, racist lazy white people". I had that gently corrected by a college grad who came from a farming background and was still a farmer. He wore the name proudly and defines it as someone who's not too good to work any job, no matter how menial. He'd be a great union guy, except he hates unions. But he and his buddies love co-ops. Anyway, they'd have handled this with a stern lecture to the daughter.

What I call "city-based redneck wannabes" are similar to keyboard warriors. They might have *a* gun, or want one, but primarily they're really white collar workers stuck where they are and only wish they could do what this guy did. They'd probably handle something like this with a stern lecture or something like it.

And the city I'm in is in the North, but we call it West Texas, with about 200,000 people. So no, not L.A.
posted by lysdexic at 10:14 AM on February 13, 2012 [1 favorite]


"And the city I'm in is in the North, but we call it West Texas, with about 200,000 people. So no, not L.A."

The middle-class white people I knew in Amarillo and Lubbock were just like this guy. These days, there's not much difference between the the urban cowboys of Dallas, Houston, Atlatna, Phoenix, or Los Angeles and their counterparts in the smaller southern/western cities. It's all suburban America now.

You really need to drop down into the more rural areas and farming/ranching towns that are sub-30K in population before you find actual rednecks. Of course, there are the authentic folk in the large cities, but they're hard to find among a sea of SUV driving accountants who listen to country radio.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:00 PM on February 13, 2012


I think we're saying the same thing. The more rural ones are the ones saying they wouldn't pull this stunt. Post, Southland, Tahoka, etc.
posted by lysdexic at 1:55 PM on February 13, 2012


Facebook Parenting: for the troubled toddler by Beta Dad
posted by flex at 4:28 PM on February 15, 2012 [5 favorites]


Facebook Parenting- continued
posted by Daddy-O at 5:11 PM on February 18, 2012


Jordan has posted a lengthy Response to Dr. Phil at a new site: Eight Minutes of Fame.
posted by zarq at 8:16 AM on February 21, 2012


If you were that absolutely altruistic and followed the premise you just disagreed with me on, you would have these children on your show in closed-door sessions, working with them as hard as you could to help them through hard times. You wouldn’t be dragging them out on a national stage and airing their problems in front of the world!

zing
posted by mrgrimm at 8:29 AM on February 21, 2012


and yet remarkably ironic and un-self-aware ...
posted by mrgrimm at 8:29 AM on February 21, 2012


I don't think that's a 'zing.' He misunderstands. By working with people who volunteer to do it on the air, Dr. Phil is actually able to teach millions more people than he would by having one-on-one sessions with families. If spreading the awareness of what healthy behavior and how to have it is his goal, he does much more good in the world than he would by doing this in private.

Notice that the key is people who volunteer. Dr. Phil forces no one into the spotlight. Everyone who appears on the show has signed releases and made agreements about being available to serve as either a good example or a horrible warning to the viewing public. This video guy (again, if he's for real) forced his daughter into volunteering, does not seem to have had her provide permissions or a release of her private information or original writing, and all in all made her much more of a spectacle than any Dr. Phil show makes of anyone. I have no clue what's happening on Dr. Phil today or, for that matter, over most of the past several years, but I could not avoid knowing about this guy.
posted by Miko at 2:02 PM on February 21, 2012 [1 favorite]


Also, good GOD, the guy won't shut up. He's one of the most verbose, run-on, self-obsessed writers I've ever seen, and this pot knows a kettle when she sees one.
posted by Miko at 2:08 PM on February 21, 2012


Let me address each of your statements at length, phrase by phrase, Miko. That's great entertainment.

Weirdly, this guy reminds me of Cicero, the great Roman orator and politician.

No, work with me.

Cicero was consul of Rome - de facto co-head of state - in the year of the conspiracy of Catiline - a plan to overthrow the Republic. Catiline and his henchmen were placed under arrest. However, Cicero was aware that the remaining conspirators remained a thread, and might either break him out or go ahead with the plan on the assumption that they could rescue him later, in the course of which lives would be lost. So, he acted unilaterally and had Catiline and his men executed without trial. This allowed him to do the Latin equivalent of a Bruce Willis one-liner - asked by the crowd where Catiline and his allies were, he responded Vixerunt (they have lived).

And then walked slowly away from an explosion.

For a while, he was feted as the saviour of Rome. However, as the memory faded, his political opponents started to think "hold up - that thing he did? That was executing Roman citizens without a trail by their peers". And began to make capital of that. So Cicero had to keep asserting how he saved the Republic, and seeking recognition on that basis, because he had to keep the "saviour of the Republic" bar higher than the "killed Roman citizens" bar.

Which, to go from great things to small, feels a little like this. Initially, what a hero. Then, hold up, did that guy hack into his daughter's Facebook account? And then share the personal, private communications of a minor over the Internet? And then talk about her faults while brandishing a firearm? And then repeatedly shoot that gun, while talking about how she was going to be punished? And then upload that to YouTube?

So, he has to keep asserting that he is a great parent, and that his daughter is totally happy and agrees with his style of parenting, to avoid those "hold up" questions gathering momentum.The ball is in the air now, and he has to try to keep it in the air until everyone loses interest.

(And at the same time, Internet celebrity is super addictive, so while doing that there is a temptation to shout "hey, everyone! Look at this awesome ball that says how great I am!")
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:38 AM on February 22, 2012 [1 favorite]


Ahem. Trail=trial. A trail by their peers would be very different. TRIAL BY PAPERCHASE!
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:57 AM on February 22, 2012


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