@Vikileaks30
February 15, 2012 11:13 AM Subscribe
Canada's attempts to alter its Copyright bills over the past 7 years have all failed, often dying when an election is called. Attempts at implementing so called "Lawful Access" legislation have also previously died in the House of Commons. Yesterday, Bill c-30, "the Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act" was introduced by Vic Toews, Minster of Public Safety, accompanied by one of the harbringer states of the "Four Horsemen of the Infopocolypse", "[one] can either stand with us or with the child pornographers.".
The interent has a history of responding poorly to politicians trying to limit online freedoms and didn't respond to nicely to Vic Toews wanting to know more about your life. Meet @Vikileaks30, a twitter account exposing portions of Vic Toews acrimonious divorce proceedings, adultery, and public accounts bills.
More on c-30 from Michael Geist, including warrentless disclosure and other no-nos.
More on c-30 from Michael Geist, including warrentless disclosure and other no-nos.
Under current legislation, ISPs comply with something like 94% of police requests for information, so exactly what problem is the proposed legislation going to address? And, just like the newly enacted mandatory sentencing legislation, Bill c-30 is going to cost a lot of extra money.
Christ, I hate these trogs.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:23 AM on February 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
Christ, I hate these trogs.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:23 AM on February 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
Because you can see what the revelations of Newt Gingrich's improprieties have done to his political career...
posted by evilmidnightbomberwhatbombsatmidnight at 11:23 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by evilmidnightbomberwhatbombsatmidnight at 11:23 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is the same government, it's worth mentioning, that ditched the long-form census, calling it a violation of privacy. And Vic Toews, after making that "with us or with the child pornographers" bit, had the gall to accuse an opposition MP of "ratcheting up the rhetoric".
Personally, I'd like to propose a straight up violation-of-privacy trade - if the Canadian government can ditch this bill, I'll be totally OK with bringing back the long-form census. Can we do that?
posted by mhoye at 11:25 AM on February 15, 2012 [16 favorites]
Personally, I'd like to propose a straight up violation-of-privacy trade - if the Canadian government can ditch this bill, I'll be totally OK with bringing back the long-form census. Can we do that?
posted by mhoye at 11:25 AM on February 15, 2012 [16 favorites]
Wow. Canadian journalism (not that I am calling this twitter journalism) usually stay far far away from the personal lives of politicians - no outings, no divorce stuff, etc. I have never seen anything like this - in terms of the level of personal attacks/invasion of privacy - in Canadian politics/
posted by hepta at 11:26 AM on February 15, 2012
posted by hepta at 11:26 AM on February 15, 2012
Shit like this really makes me wonder if it is me or my countrymen that are disconnected from reality.
posted by Vindaloo at 11:28 AM on February 15, 2012
posted by Vindaloo at 11:28 AM on February 15, 2012
I love that Justin Trudeau "denounced" the account, linking it to his 110k followers.
posted by Theta States at 11:28 AM on February 15, 2012 [17 favorites]
posted by Theta States at 11:28 AM on February 15, 2012 [17 favorites]
Also I like that #DontToewsMeBro is a hashtag!
The Star link.
posted by hepta at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
The Star link.
posted by hepta at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
@tommasz, I had a very similarly thought process: I'm definitely not in favour of personal attacks as a rule, but where a person in a position of power is bandying about such hypocritical ideals, being "family first" while simultaneously being the walking, breathing definition of a home wrecking scumbag, a public defamation campaign may be warranted.
posted by aidanwhiteley at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by aidanwhiteley at 11:29 AM on February 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Hearing Toews yesterday on the CBC repeatedly lie about what he had actually said was, while not unexpected, supremely depressing. If ever there was a man who needed a little forcible transparency, it's him - he seems entirely capable of any level of self delusion.
posted by Rumple at 11:30 AM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Rumple at 11:30 AM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Liberal MP Justin Trudeau has expressed his support of Toews, tweeting the Twitter account is an "invasion of his privacy" and is "reprehensible."
Aren't divorce records in the public domain? I mean, they may require a court order to examine if you're not a party to the divorce, but it's not as if I would expect that stuff to stay private when some clerk down in the courthouse (or, say, the other party to the divorce) can easily access them.
Whining about privacy invasion is kind of rich in this context.
posted by axiom at 11:30 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Aren't divorce records in the public domain? I mean, they may require a court order to examine if you're not a party to the divorce, but it's not as if I would expect that stuff to stay private when some clerk down in the courthouse (or, say, the other party to the divorce) can easily access them.
Whining about privacy invasion is kind of rich in this context.
posted by axiom at 11:30 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
This kind of despicable tactic is just so typical of Harper and his thugs. Those of us who want the courts to issue warrants to spy on Canadians are therefore child pornographers? Talk about a false dichotomy.
Then today, Vic Toews has the gall to rear up on his hooves and demand that the NDP and Liberals drop their opposition to the dismantling of the long-gun registry, with the excuse that it violates Canadian's privacy?
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 11:31 AM on February 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
Then today, Vic Toews has the gall to rear up on his hooves and demand that the NDP and Liberals drop their opposition to the dismantling of the long-gun registry, with the excuse that it violates Canadian's privacy?
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 11:31 AM on February 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
DOX ALL THE THINGS!
(DOXUPY?)
Seriously, I'm hearing more and more about doxing going on lately against some kinda powerful folks.
The twitter looks more like rumormongering than anything that dangerous.
Anon claims to have doxed Combined Systems a weapons maker allegedly in the market selling nasty things to nasty regimes.
posted by symbioid at 11:34 AM on February 15, 2012
(DOXUPY?)
Seriously, I'm hearing more and more about doxing going on lately against some kinda powerful folks.
The twitter looks more like rumormongering than anything that dangerous.
Anon claims to have doxed Combined Systems a weapons maker allegedly in the market selling nasty things to nasty regimes.
posted by symbioid at 11:34 AM on February 15, 2012
This is a bad idea. Studies have repeatedly shown that voter sympathy for a politician regularly goes up after revelations of sexual impropriety – most notably in the case of Bill Clinton, who became more popular after the scandal of his relationship with Monica Lewinsky broke.
There is a slight chance that the Canadian electorate will turn out to be more sexually conservative than the American electorate was in 1997 and 1998. Maybe a Canadian can lay some odds on whether that chance is very good at all.
Tabloid tactics don't work.
posted by koeselitz at 11:35 AM on February 15, 2012
There is a slight chance that the Canadian electorate will turn out to be more sexually conservative than the American electorate was in 1997 and 1998. Maybe a Canadian can lay some odds on whether that chance is very good at all.
Tabloid tactics don't work.
posted by koeselitz at 11:35 AM on February 15, 2012
It's not really about a sex scandal koeselitz. It's mostly about issues with spousal support and getting a free ride on taxpayer funds.
posted by Hoopo at 11:39 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Hoopo at 11:39 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
We should expose all the personal affairs of any politician who wants to expand wiretapping, preferably violations of campaign financing that send them to jail.
I liked Michael Geist's Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Lawful Access, But Were (Understandably) Afraid To Ask btw, linked in the post.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:40 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I liked Michael Geist's Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Lawful Access, But Were (Understandably) Afraid To Ask btw, linked in the post.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:40 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
To those saying "Canadians don't do this kind of thing", well tell that to the fucking Republicans, oops I mean Conservatives, stuffing all of this extremely uncanadian and totally wasteful legislation down our throats. I hope this will be their last chance in a while, up here we tend to have a fairly reality-based electorate. Maybe that's why they are pushing all of this dogmatic bullshit so hard, they know it will be their only chance in a long time.
posted by Meatbomb at 11:41 AM on February 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 11:41 AM on February 15, 2012 [5 favorites]
Studies have repeatedly shown that voter sympathy for a politician regularly goes up after revelations of sexual impropriety
This is an inaccurate reflection on those studies. Voter sympathy for a politician goes up when sexual impropriety is revealed and it is the only impropriety in question. Newt Gingrich did not become more liked when his affairs were revealed, because Newt Gingrich had also left both of his wives while they were ill, treated them like shit, and was generally a dickhead on top of it. Anthony Weiner did not become more liked when his Twittering-in-underwear was revealed, because his impropriety was callow, stupid and his denials of it were idiotic.
What Toews has been accused of is not merely cheating - which the public can forgive because we're all only human. He's being accused of holding out on child support, which is not generally considered a forgiveable act. Society does not hold the hand of deadbeats.
posted by mightygodking at 11:41 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is an inaccurate reflection on those studies. Voter sympathy for a politician goes up when sexual impropriety is revealed and it is the only impropriety in question. Newt Gingrich did not become more liked when his affairs were revealed, because Newt Gingrich had also left both of his wives while they were ill, treated them like shit, and was generally a dickhead on top of it. Anthony Weiner did not become more liked when his Twittering-in-underwear was revealed, because his impropriety was callow, stupid and his denials of it were idiotic.
What Toews has been accused of is not merely cheating - which the public can forgive because we're all only human. He's being accused of holding out on child support, which is not generally considered a forgiveable act. Society does not hold the hand of deadbeats.
posted by mightygodking at 11:41 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
It isn't defamation. Most of this stuff is affidavit evidence, and all of it is part of the public record.
posted by sfred at 11:43 AM on February 15, 2012
posted by sfred at 11:43 AM on February 15, 2012
The latest from Justin Trudeau's Twitter feed:
I've never voted Liberal in a federal election in my life, but I gotta say I'm quite enjoying watching Pierre's kid find his party's spine after a great many years MIA. When you're opponents are this self-serving and hypocritical and bullying, there's nothing at all wrong with embarassing them every chance you get. I'm beginning to find a dim hope deep in my disappointed Canuck heart that it may be good ole Shakespearian-scale hubris that fells Harper after all.
posted by gompa at 11:45 AM on February 15, 2012 [14 favorites]
Just to reiterate my condemnation of @vikileaks30 (that's @vikileaks30) for being meanies towards the always nice and reasonable @ToewsVic.See what he did there? Hey, largest-Twitter-follower-base of any non-Cabinet MP, please don't go look at what an unreconstructed POS the honourable minister is. Pretty please?
I've never voted Liberal in a federal election in my life, but I gotta say I'm quite enjoying watching Pierre's kid find his party's spine after a great many years MIA. When you're opponents are this self-serving and hypocritical and bullying, there's nothing at all wrong with embarassing them every chance you get. I'm beginning to find a dim hope deep in my disappointed Canuck heart that it may be good ole Shakespearian-scale hubris that fells Harper after all.
posted by gompa at 11:45 AM on February 15, 2012 [14 favorites]
I attribute the nascent resurrection of the Liberal Party to Bob Rae (and not a pompous flake like Trudeau). Rae's a great man, and it's just too bad he is in the right place at the wrong time.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:48 AM on February 15, 2012
posted by KokuRyu at 11:48 AM on February 15, 2012
I'm quite enjoying watching Pierre's kid find his party's spine after a great many years MIA.
Yeah he's been pretty entertaining lately (as has Pat Martin but I don't think he has quite the same appeal.)
posted by Hoopo at 11:48 AM on February 15, 2012
Yeah he's been pretty entertaining lately (as has Pat Martin but I don't think he has quite the same appeal.)
posted by Hoopo at 11:48 AM on February 15, 2012
I've mixed feelings about Justin Trudeau. I kind of like him as an MP, but he certainly isn't the long lost hope for the Grits.
posted by sfred at 11:50 AM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by sfred at 11:50 AM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
a pompous flake like Trudeau
I know this is the official line on Justin, but I've observed him doing retail politics in a church basement in the distant East End wilds of Montreal, and it sure as hell looked like real, genuine hard work by a young man learning the family business from the ground up. Just an anecdote, but whatever he is, I don't think he's a flake. (And being the staggeringly photogenic son of one of the half-dozen most important public figures in your country's history will prob'ly lead to a certain amount of pomposity even in the most centred of souls.)
posted by gompa at 11:53 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
I know this is the official line on Justin, but I've observed him doing retail politics in a church basement in the distant East End wilds of Montreal, and it sure as hell looked like real, genuine hard work by a young man learning the family business from the ground up. Just an anecdote, but whatever he is, I don't think he's a flake. (And being the staggeringly photogenic son of one of the half-dozen most important public figures in your country's history will prob'ly lead to a certain amount of pomposity even in the most centred of souls.)
posted by gompa at 11:53 AM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
It is kind of funny how we never hear from the federal NDP these days.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:55 AM on February 15, 2012
posted by KokuRyu at 11:55 AM on February 15, 2012
Rae's a great man, and it's just too bad he is in the right place at the wrong time.
Has Ontario forgiven him yet? I always thought he was seen as "damaged goods" after his NDP government days, and too easy a target for the simplistic conservative jingoism that defines Harper's election campaigns.
posted by Hoopo at 11:56 AM on February 15, 2012
Has Ontario forgiven him yet? I always thought he was seen as "damaged goods" after his NDP government days, and too easy a target for the simplistic conservative jingoism that defines Harper's election campaigns.
posted by Hoopo at 11:56 AM on February 15, 2012
It is kind of funny how we never hear from the federal NDP these days.
If by that you mean "it's kind of funny how the media never stopped covering the Liberals like they're the opposition," then I agree.
posted by Jairus at 11:58 AM on February 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
If by that you mean "it's kind of funny how the media never stopped covering the Liberals like they're the opposition," then I agree.
posted by Jairus at 11:58 AM on February 15, 2012 [12 favorites]
It is kind of funny how we never hear from the federal NDP these days.
It's because they can't play any clips of Pat Martin until after prime time.
posted by Hoopo at 11:59 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's because they can't play any clips of Pat Martin until after prime time.
posted by Hoopo at 11:59 AM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
There is a slight chance that the Canadian electorate will turn out to be more sexually conservative than the American electorate was in 1997 and 1998. Maybe a Canadian can lay some odds on whether that chance is very good at all.
The odds of that are not very good at all. /canadian
posted by asnider at 12:00 PM on February 15, 2012
The odds of that are not very good at all. /canadian
posted by asnider at 12:00 PM on February 15, 2012
Has Ontario forgiven him yet?
I think that's a secondary problem. The biggest challenge the Libs have is to rebuild their party machine at a local level. And Rae at least seems like he's trying to achieve that.
As for the media and the NDP, how can anyone take them seriously? And I say this as a 2-time NDP election volunteer.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:01 PM on February 15, 2012
I think that's a secondary problem. The biggest challenge the Libs have is to rebuild their party machine at a local level. And Rae at least seems like he's trying to achieve that.
As for the media and the NDP, how can anyone take them seriously? And I say this as a 2-time NDP election volunteer.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:01 PM on February 15, 2012
And I'm derailing this thread. Sorry.
The main threat is the Conservative legislative agenda right now. Thanks to the parliamentary system, it doesn't seem likely there is any way to block these bills.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:01 PM on February 15, 2012
The main threat is the Conservative legislative agenda right now. Thanks to the parliamentary system, it doesn't seem likely there is any way to block these bills.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:01 PM on February 15, 2012
> Maybe that's why they are pushing all of this dogmatic bullshit so hard, they know it will be their only chance in a long time.
My less-optimistic take is that they are pushing the Overton window to the right as fast and as hard as they can in the hope of permanently altering Canadian political dynamics. Look how far things have shifted since theReform Party Conservatives formed their first minority government in 2006.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:02 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
My less-optimistic take is that they are pushing the Overton window to the right as fast and as hard as they can in the hope of permanently altering Canadian political dynamics. Look how far things have shifted since the
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:02 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Tabloid tactics don't work.
posted by koeselitz at 11:35 AM on February 15 [+] [!]
The goal isn't necessarily to stop the guy from getting re-elected. He's using a moral platform to push a heavy handed repressive bill. The goal is to undermine the bill, by questioning its motives and explicit aims.
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:03 PM on February 15, 2012
If by that you mean "it's kind of funny how the media never stopped covering the Liberals like they're the opposition," then I agree.
I don't know, the Globe's managed to publish an op-ed on the issue. Justin Trudeau's tweeted. Where's the NDP's press release or news conference on the issue? One would think this is a no-brainer for them.
posted by sfred at 12:03 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't know, the Globe's managed to publish an op-ed on the issue. Justin Trudeau's tweeted. Where's the NDP's press release or news conference on the issue? One would think this is a no-brainer for them.
posted by sfred at 12:03 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Has Ontario forgiven him yet? I always thought he was seen as "damaged goods" after his NDP government days
More anecdata, but I've never heard anyone outside the Liberal Party's inner circles in Toronto suggest he could win a federal election as leader. (This should forever after be known as the Ignatieff Delusion.) He'd make a fantastic cabinet minister in any number of portfolios, but his political liabilities remain the kind that only being pure laine Quebecois could possibly overcome as leader.
I'd love to be proven wrong on that, by the way; I think Bob Rae's a brilliant, decent man with some excellent ideas who has learned from his many experiences in and out of government. (American Mefites might want to think of him as almost a Jimmy Carter figure - too forthcoming and reasonable for sustained political success.)
posted by gompa at 12:03 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
More anecdata, but I've never heard anyone outside the Liberal Party's inner circles in Toronto suggest he could win a federal election as leader. (This should forever after be known as the Ignatieff Delusion.) He'd make a fantastic cabinet minister in any number of portfolios, but his political liabilities remain the kind that only being pure laine Quebecois could possibly overcome as leader.
I'd love to be proven wrong on that, by the way; I think Bob Rae's a brilliant, decent man with some excellent ideas who has learned from his many experiences in and out of government. (American Mefites might want to think of him as almost a Jimmy Carter figure - too forthcoming and reasonable for sustained political success.)
posted by gompa at 12:03 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Forget about exposing his own dirty laundry, everybody I know who is aware of Toews thinks he's a jerk based on his "you must be a fan of child porn" comments alone. I think even conservative Canadians are loathe to see the political discourse in this country sink so low.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:06 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by stinkycheese at 12:06 PM on February 15, 2012
"[one] can either stand with us or with the child pornographers."
All I feel is rage.
Its working as a better fuel than coffee.
(YMMV)
posted by Slackermagee at 12:10 PM on February 15, 2012
All I feel is rage.
Its working as a better fuel than coffee.
(YMMV)
posted by Slackermagee at 12:10 PM on February 15, 2012
Most of the noise I hear about Rae is 1) he's smart and good, but 2) he pissed off too many elephants. Since everyone says this it must be the usual Canadian "it's good enough for me but not for the neighbours" sort of nonsense that leads to people never cleaning their houses until they have company. Me, I just never clean the fucking house. You don't like my cat hair and dusty trinkets, GTFO.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:10 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:10 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It is kind of funny how we never hear from the federal NDP these days.
Dude, Charlie Angus has been all over this stuff from Day 1, and Charmaine Borg has been really active on this file since the last election as well.
Yesterday's press conference for just one example.
posted by Kurichina at 12:10 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Dude, Charlie Angus has been all over this stuff from Day 1, and Charmaine Borg has been really active on this file since the last election as well.
Yesterday's press conference for just one example.
posted by Kurichina at 12:10 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yesterday's press conference for just one example.
I missed that, but we're still not getting the kind of messaging out of the NDP that Layton could have provided.
posted by sfred at 12:14 PM on February 15, 2012
I missed that, but we're still not getting the kind of messaging out of the NDP that Layton could have provided.
posted by sfred at 12:14 PM on February 15, 2012
Speaking of wikileaks and copyright laws...
In short: every law proposal, every ordinance, and every governmental report hostile to the net, youth, and civil liberties here in Sweden in recent years have been commissioned by the US government and industry interests.
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 12:15 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
In short: every law proposal, every ordinance, and every governmental report hostile to the net, youth, and civil liberties here in Sweden in recent years have been commissioned by the US government and industry interests.
posted by Orange Pamplemousse at 12:15 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
The good news is that now we have a snappy new title for copyright-infringers:
"Internet predators."
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:15 PM on February 15, 2012
"Internet predators."
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:15 PM on February 15, 2012
I <3 Bob Rae, ever since I saw this Rick Mercer and Bob Rae go fishing interview where Rae goes skinnydipping. I don't know if I can fully convey this to the USians in the room but Rick Mercer is like Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert here except even more well-known and beloved. That Rae could so not take himself seriously as to do that for an, essentially, joke report (but one plenty of Canadians were watching on a major network channel), well it's just part of the magic of Canada for me.
(I can't believe Rae gets the heaping scorn from your average Ontarian that Harris should be receiving. Seriously. Harris was a nightmare.)
Anyway, on topic, yes, this bill is pretty much the Canadian SOPA/PIPA, except there are not going to be mass website blackouts for it, so I don't know if the outrage is going to make an impact on the average person enough. I am pessimistic.
posted by flex at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2012
(I can't believe Rae gets the heaping scorn from your average Ontarian that Harris should be receiving. Seriously. Harris was a nightmare.)
Anyway, on topic, yes, this bill is pretty much the Canadian SOPA/PIPA, except there are not going to be mass website blackouts for it, so I don't know if the outrage is going to make an impact on the average person enough. I am pessimistic.
posted by flex at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2012
It is kind of funny how we never hear from the federal NDP these days.
The leadership campaign means that there isn't anybody to take a forceful stand. Nycole Turmel is a placeholder and everybody knows it, so anything she says is basically ignored. Once the NDP decides on a leader in March, things will change - especially because at this point there are five realistic possibilities (Brian Topp, Thomas Mulcair, Peggy Nash, Nathan Cullen and Paul Dewar - with Mulcair, Topp and Dewar being the most likely, in that order), and not a one of them is a shrinking violet.
posted by mightygodking at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
The leadership campaign means that there isn't anybody to take a forceful stand. Nycole Turmel is a placeholder and everybody knows it, so anything she says is basically ignored. Once the NDP decides on a leader in March, things will change - especially because at this point there are five realistic possibilities (Brian Topp, Thomas Mulcair, Peggy Nash, Nathan Cullen and Paul Dewar - with Mulcair, Topp and Dewar being the most likely, in that order), and not a one of them is a shrinking violet.
posted by mightygodking at 12:16 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
A better way to frame this is that you're either standing with Vic Toews or you're not.
I'm not.
posted by mazola at 12:17 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm not.
posted by mazola at 12:17 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Actually, even when Saint Jack was still with us, he led by letting the experts in his caucus be the spokesperson on their critic responsibilities. This is why Angus has been the primary NDP voice on IP, internet issues and online liberties for a very long time now.
(Also, Charlie Angus is just pretty damn awesome, and old leader, interim leader or new leader, that's a constant that makes me feel pretty good.)
posted by Kurichina at 12:19 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
(Also, Charlie Angus is just pretty damn awesome, and old leader, interim leader or new leader, that's a constant that makes me feel pretty good.)
posted by Kurichina at 12:19 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I can't believe Rae gets the heaping scorn from your average Ontarian that Harris should be receiving.
Here's the thing: he doesn't. Back during the last Liberal leadership race there was a lot of polling conducted as to Rae's electability in Ontario since it was a key issue for him, and the takeaway is this: the people who hate him most vocally are the people who never would vote for a non-Tory in any case. The middle of the road voters have mostly forgiven him and would vote on issues and personality; the left loves him.
He's not the electoral disaster he's made out to be and has not been that for a long, long time. (And as for Mike Harris? Mike Harris hurt the Tories so much in Ontario that they have been out of power for a decade and that isn't going to change in the near future - the likely road ahead of Ontario for another decade are NDP/Grit minority cooperation governments.)
posted by mightygodking at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Here's the thing: he doesn't. Back during the last Liberal leadership race there was a lot of polling conducted as to Rae's electability in Ontario since it was a key issue for him, and the takeaway is this: the people who hate him most vocally are the people who never would vote for a non-Tory in any case. The middle of the road voters have mostly forgiven him and would vote on issues and personality; the left loves him.
He's not the electoral disaster he's made out to be and has not been that for a long, long time. (And as for Mike Harris? Mike Harris hurt the Tories so much in Ontario that they have been out of power for a decade and that isn't going to change in the near future - the likely road ahead of Ontario for another decade are NDP/Grit minority cooperation governments.)
posted by mightygodking at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Here is a law that could maybe use changing first.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think even conservative Canadians are loathe to see the political discourse in this country sink so low.
As a possible bellwether, they've lost the support of the Calgary Herald editorial board on this one. This is a bunch as staid, mushy, boosterish, small-c conservative and status quo-mongering as any in Canada. They'd sooner self-immolate en masse than be seen as openly defiant of the Alberta-led CPC.
Hubris, folks. It may deliver what a decimated Liberal Party couldn't - the fall of Stephen Harper.
posted by gompa at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
As a possible bellwether, they've lost the support of the Calgary Herald editorial board on this one. This is a bunch as staid, mushy, boosterish, small-c conservative and status quo-mongering as any in Canada. They'd sooner self-immolate en masse than be seen as openly defiant of the Alberta-led CPC.
Hubris, folks. It may deliver what a decimated Liberal Party couldn't - the fall of Stephen Harper.
posted by gompa at 12:21 PM on February 15, 2012 [7 favorites]
Oh, every Canadian can argue against this, and whatever websites we imagine can black themselves down, but Harper will never, ever back down. He has a majority! He never needs to back down again (not that he did much when he didn't have a majority).
It is nice to see his iron control on members slipping slightly.
I would vote for the Liberals if I could vote for Justin Trudeau. (I am, however, perfectly happy voting for the NDP.)
posted by jeather at 12:23 PM on February 15, 2012
It is nice to see his iron control on members slipping slightly.
I would vote for the Liberals if I could vote for Justin Trudeau. (I am, however, perfectly happy voting for the NDP.)
posted by jeather at 12:23 PM on February 15, 2012
Also worth sharing: Steve Murray is almost making me think the National Post is worth reading again.
posted by gompa at 12:26 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by gompa at 12:26 PM on February 15, 2012
Toews is certainly different in every possible way from Irwin Cotler.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:30 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by KokuRyu at 12:30 PM on February 15, 2012
He's not the electoral disaster he's made out to be and has not been that for a long, long time.
I don't know. These polls don't reflect opinion following a Conservative smear campaign in full swing. I had the same initial feeling about Ignatieff; my first thoughts were "this guy has been out of Canada for almost my entire life and they're going to crucify him for it." With Rae, the Conservatives could go after him for "screwing over the unions" or some other such nonsense. All the Conservatives need to do is encourage the fracture between Liberals and NDP and that would be a really easy way to do it.
posted by Hoopo at 12:31 PM on February 15, 2012
I don't know. These polls don't reflect opinion following a Conservative smear campaign in full swing. I had the same initial feeling about Ignatieff; my first thoughts were "this guy has been out of Canada for almost my entire life and they're going to crucify him for it." With Rae, the Conservatives could go after him for "screwing over the unions" or some other such nonsense. All the Conservatives need to do is encourage the fracture between Liberals and NDP and that would be a really easy way to do it.
posted by Hoopo at 12:31 PM on February 15, 2012
With Rae, the Conservatives could go after him for "screwing over the unions" or some other such nonsense.
The Tories can't attack Rae from the left on unions. They are very much anti-labour; it's part of their base's standards that they're anti-labour.
With the NDP and Grits openly discussing the possibility of partnership in riding competition (e.g. avoiding competing for seats where their competition means a potential Tory victory), fracturing the two parties' bases and setting them against one another is a weaker tactic than ever for the Tories. The left wing of Canada is finally doing electoral math; this should terrify the Conservatives, who can't top 40% of the vote in their best year.
posted by mightygodking at 12:36 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Tories can't attack Rae from the left on unions. They are very much anti-labour; it's part of their base's standards that they're anti-labour.
With the NDP and Grits openly discussing the possibility of partnership in riding competition (e.g. avoiding competing for seats where their competition means a potential Tory victory), fracturing the two parties' bases and setting them against one another is a weaker tactic than ever for the Tories. The left wing of Canada is finally doing electoral math; this should terrify the Conservatives, who can't top 40% of the vote in their best year.
posted by mightygodking at 12:36 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
furiousxgeorge: “Here is a law that could maybe use changing first.”
Didn't that article say that the law did change a few weeks after the videotapes were made? Or are you saying the law should be changed again to be effective retroactively?
posted by koeselitz at 12:37 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Didn't that article say that the law did change a few weeks after the videotapes were made? Or are you saying the law should be changed again to be effective retroactively?
posted by koeselitz at 12:37 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Has Ontario forgiven him yet?
Ontario, particularly left-leaning Ontario, are the ones who owe Rae an apology, not the other way around.
posted by mhoye at 12:37 PM on February 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
Ontario, particularly left-leaning Ontario, are the ones who owe Rae an apology, not the other way around.
posted by mhoye at 12:37 PM on February 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
Bob Rae should publicly clarify why Rae Days were necessary. Then he might start to rebuild his cache in Ontario; but I doubt it.
posted by NiteMayr at 12:42 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by NiteMayr at 12:42 PM on February 15, 2012
Unfortunately, due to the Americanization of Canadian politics, you need to put a face on the opposition. Layton was good at that, much better at it than Ignatieff. While critics like Angus may have provided the substantive response to whatever the issue was, there was Layton hanging around waiting to provide a sound-bite for the media. When you're in opposition, someone has to do that these days. We're dealing with Harper, not Mulroney. The fact that we're even remotely considering the interim Liberal leader might be the de-facto opposition leader speaks volumes, and it isn't just because the press tends to ignore the NDP.
posted by sfred at 12:47 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by sfred at 12:47 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
It is kind of funny how we never hear from the federal NDP these days.
I am far too familiar with Nycole Turmel to share your surprise.
posted by bonehead at 12:52 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
I am far too familiar with Nycole Turmel to share your surprise.
posted by bonehead at 12:52 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Very similar to the "The Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act" in the U.S, from the same person who wrote SOPA.
This is all due to international cooperation on copyright, and I think actually part of ACTA. That's why the bills don't specifically target people suspected of being CP consumers, but rather all internet users. They want to be able to use the data to go after copyright infringers.
posted by delmoi at 12:56 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is all due to international cooperation on copyright, and I think actually part of ACTA. That's why the bills don't specifically target people suspected of being CP consumers, but rather all internet users. They want to be able to use the data to go after copyright infringers.
posted by delmoi at 12:56 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
"Rae's a great man,"
Huh. I wondered when I find something I disagreed with you over, KokoRyu, but never expected it would be over that ignorant fart sack of a man.
posted by docgonzo at 1:06 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Huh. I wondered when I find something I disagreed with you over, KokoRyu, but never expected it would be over that ignorant fart sack of a man.
posted by docgonzo at 1:06 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
avoiding competing for seats where their competition means a potential Tory victory
I am very wary of the effectiveness of this strategy. There are too many NDP voters that would not vote Liberal and too many Liberals voters who would not vote NDP.
posted by Hoopo at 1:09 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I am very wary of the effectiveness of this strategy. There are too many NDP voters that would not vote Liberal and too many Liberals voters who would not vote NDP.
posted by Hoopo at 1:09 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
As a possible bellwether, they've lost the support of the Calgary Herald editorial board on this one.
I keep hoping for the centre of Calgary to turn red or orange. It comes closer every election.
posted by bonehead at 1:15 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I keep hoping for the centre of Calgary to turn red or orange. It comes closer every election.
posted by bonehead at 1:15 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
but never expected it would be over that ignorant fart sack of a man.
Just a single data point, but for several years when I worked for an industry association, and later for a Crown that interfaced with industry, I routinely set up "round tables" between industry (ie, CEOs) and politicians and others trying desperately to achieve some sort of industry validation.
Industry hates these things - whatever pol attends is invariably late, ignorant and arrogant. But the one I did for Bob Rae while he was preparing the Liberal economic platform prior to the 2006 election was not a waste of time.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:23 PM on February 15, 2012
Just a single data point, but for several years when I worked for an industry association, and later for a Crown that interfaced with industry, I routinely set up "round tables" between industry (ie, CEOs) and politicians and others trying desperately to achieve some sort of industry validation.
Industry hates these things - whatever pol attends is invariably late, ignorant and arrogant. But the one I did for Bob Rae while he was preparing the Liberal economic platform prior to the 2006 election was not a waste of time.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:23 PM on February 15, 2012
s a possible bellwether, they've lost the support of the Calgary Herald editorial board on this one.
Completely off topic, but for some reason I kept hearing Rex Murphy's voice while I was reading that editorial.
posted by asnider at 1:24 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Completely off topic, but for some reason I kept hearing Rex Murphy's voice while I was reading that editorial.
posted by asnider at 1:24 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'd like to stand with the us who are neither Vic Toews nor child pornographers, please.
posted by scruss at 1:30 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by scruss at 1:30 PM on February 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Bob Rae should publicly clarify why Rae Days were necessary. Then he might start to rebuild his cache in Ontario; but I doubt it.
You saw the alternative way to cut spending next election. Those folks in Walkerton not dead enough for you?
posted by mobunited at 1:32 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
You saw the alternative way to cut spending next election. Those folks in Walkerton not dead enough for you?
posted by mobunited at 1:32 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
The people who are still mad over Rae Days are not going to be placated now by retroactive explanations. From their point of view, that would be like some guy coming up all smiles and saying, "I'd like to try and put into perspective why I stole your money".
posted by stinkycheese at 2:28 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by stinkycheese at 2:28 PM on February 15, 2012
Just as a point of reference for how deeply those cuts still sting, my dad was one of those who was directly affected by Rae Days, as were his students. He's a life-long NDP voter but he still hasn't forgiven Rae. He didn't vote NDP provincially until Rae left the party.
posted by bonehead at 2:32 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by bonehead at 2:32 PM on February 15, 2012
You saw the alternative way to cut spending next election.
It's true, although I fear that the old Harris "put the welfare bums to work building highways" rhetoric would still resonate with a lot of voters today despite having seen all the fallout from his policies. People loooooove that shit. I really hope people don't fall for the paedo-scare justification for this very intrusive legislation, but it just seems so easy to get people behind bad policy by making it a question of being for or against freeloaders or perverts or drug dealers.
posted by Hoopo at 2:42 PM on February 15, 2012
It's true, although I fear that the old Harris "put the welfare bums to work building highways" rhetoric would still resonate with a lot of voters today despite having seen all the fallout from his policies. People loooooove that shit. I really hope people don't fall for the paedo-scare justification for this very intrusive legislation, but it just seems so easy to get people behind bad policy by making it a question of being for or against freeloaders or perverts or drug dealers.
posted by Hoopo at 2:42 PM on February 15, 2012
Rae Days aren't scary on their own, but they're evidence that Rae will sign off on centrist austerity bullshit. Which makes him right at home with the Liberals these days, but he can stay the hell away from the genuine left, thanks.
posted by mek at 2:49 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by mek at 2:49 PM on February 15, 2012
Hey Mobunited I attended those funerals and attended HS in Walkerton. How about you eat a bowl of humble pie? That wasn't cost cutting; that was fatal idiocy and cronyism.
posted by NiteMayr at 4:07 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by NiteMayr at 4:07 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's amazing how quickly their twitter feed grew. I looked this afternoon, and it was 800 people. Now it's 5500!
posted by a womble is an active kind of sloth at 4:55 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by a womble is an active kind of sloth at 4:55 PM on February 15, 2012
Not sure anyone caught this on the radio etc., but House Leader Peter Van Loan acknowledged the bill may need some more work (a few Tory backbenchers apparently spoke out against it), and so Loew's bill has been moved directly to committee, in order to alter it.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:49 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by KokuRyu at 5:49 PM on February 15, 2012
Christ, I hate these trogs.
That's OK. They hate Canada right back.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:32 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
That's OK. They hate Canada right back.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:32 PM on February 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mike Harris hurt the Tories so much in Ontario that they have been out of power for a decade and that isn't going to change in the near future
Huh? Hudak was en route to a majority before the writ was dropped and he had to start opening his mouth. If Dalton McGuinty takes enough of the economy-shrinking recommendations from Don Drummond and the electorate gets too annoyed, it's not Andrea Horwath who'll be premier.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:47 PM on February 15, 2012
Huh? Hudak was en route to a majority before the writ was dropped and he had to start opening his mouth. If Dalton McGuinty takes enough of the economy-shrinking recommendations from Don Drummond and the electorate gets too annoyed, it's not Andrea Horwath who'll be premier.
posted by one more dead town's last parade at 6:47 PM on February 15, 2012
PareidoliaticBoy writes "Then today, Vic Toews has the gall to rear up on his hooves and demand that the NDP and Liberals drop their opposition to the dismantling of the long-gun registry, with the excuse that it violates Canadian's privacy?"
Which is of course stupid; the best reason to get rid of it is because it is a big old waste of money.
jeather writes "He has a majority! He never needs to back down again (not that he did much when he didn't have a majority).
"It is nice to see his iron control on members slipping slightly."
CBC radio spent 20 minutes this morning on how Stephen Harper isn't going to allow his party to open up the debate on abortion because some back bencher wants to redefine what a human is and thereby back door making abortion illegal again. It 's interesting to me because it seems to signal that party members are expecting Harper to make with the far right agenda and I think they are going to be severely disappointed.
Is there a way to find out how a MP has voted in the past? I suspect my local MP votes the party line pretty well exclusively and I'd like to reference that in my letter to her on this issue.
posted by Mitheral at 7:12 PM on February 15, 2012
Which is of course stupid; the best reason to get rid of it is because it is a big old waste of money.
jeather writes "He has a majority! He never needs to back down again (not that he did much when he didn't have a majority).
"It is nice to see his iron control on members slipping slightly."
CBC radio spent 20 minutes this morning on how Stephen Harper isn't going to allow his party to open up the debate on abortion because some back bencher wants to redefine what a human is and thereby back door making abortion illegal again. It 's interesting to me because it seems to signal that party members are expecting Harper to make with the far right agenda and I think they are going to be severely disappointed.
Is there a way to find out how a MP has voted in the past? I suspect my local MP votes the party line pretty well exclusively and I'd like to reference that in my letter to her on this issue.
posted by Mitheral at 7:12 PM on February 15, 2012
ISPs comply with something like 94% of police requests for information
Exactly this.
Sorry, but I worked on an initiative to help catch child predators online (and off) and Canada is not lacking in law enforcement power or the legal ability to convict - we are a world-leader.
This law smacks of a hidden-agenda. And as someone else mentioned earlier, how is this less privacy invasive than the long-form census?
This is yet again the "Harper Government" (tm) following the US in policy by about a decade - it has become so obvious and boring, one almost wishes they had another page in their playbook instead.
But... what can we do? Nothing, they have a majority now, pretty sure any debate at this point is irrelavent, no? (I admit, I might just not understand the process)
posted by jkaczor at 7:17 PM on February 15, 2012
Exactly this.
Sorry, but I worked on an initiative to help catch child predators online (and off) and Canada is not lacking in law enforcement power or the legal ability to convict - we are a world-leader.
This law smacks of a hidden-agenda. And as someone else mentioned earlier, how is this less privacy invasive than the long-form census?
This is yet again the "Harper Government" (tm) following the US in policy by about a decade - it has become so obvious and boring, one almost wishes they had another page in their playbook instead.
But... what can we do? Nothing, they have a majority now, pretty sure any debate at this point is irrelavent, no? (I admit, I might just not understand the process)
posted by jkaczor at 7:17 PM on February 15, 2012
Is there a way to find out how a MP has voted in the past? I suspect my local MP votes the party line pretty well exclusively and I'd like to reference that in my letter to her on this issue.
They all do. howdtheyvote.ca has a list of MPs sorted by dissension.
posted by sfenders at 7:41 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
They all do. howdtheyvote.ca has a list of MPs sorted by dissension.
posted by sfenders at 7:41 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
KokoRyu, the Globe confirms that report, saying that Harper has blinked.
The climb-down came the same day that some Conservative MPs, in a rare display of candour, went public with their concerns over Bill C-30, which the Harper government has named the Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act.posted by maudlin at 7:46 PM on February 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
“I think it’s too intrusive as it currently stands and does need to be looked at,” said New Brunswick Tory MP John Williamson, one of several MPs to talk to reporters. “There’s a lot of concern, I think, across the country as well.”
This is the first time that the Conservative government has conceded it may need to broadly rewrite legislation since its re-election to a majority in May, 2011. In recent days the Tories had found it difficult to explain why they would back a bill that privacy watchdogs called invasive when they had scrapped both the long-gun registry and the mandatory long-form census in the name of protecting personal freedom.
The Harper government announced Wednesday that it is prepared to send the legislation to committee before a vote on second reading, a rarely-used procedural manoeuvre that allows MPs to make major changes to the legislation.
It probably would have passed first reading today if Toews hadn't made the pedophile comment. I wonder if he will be shuffled out of Cabinet after the summer.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:45 PM on February 15, 2012
posted by KokuRyu at 8:45 PM on February 15, 2012
I have to agree. That's been Harper's challenge - heck, it was Manning's challenge too - to get CRAPP MPs not to open their mouths and say what they're thinking. Because, as soon as they do, average Canadians go "ewwwwwww, is that what you stand for?" and then these governments lose office. It's a weird situation, really.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:46 PM on February 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by stinkycheese at 9:46 PM on February 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Woodworth is from my riding and he's a odious villain who'd like nothing more than to turn back the clock of human rights and social conscience about five decades. I'd feel sorry for him the same way I'd feel sorry for a child who kicks his puppies because I know that his father kicks him harder, except that as an MP he could actually fuck our lives up. The only good thing is that on the hill, as here, he just can't keep his mouth shut so ultimately people will simply get fed up with him revealing the PCs as the demon larvae they are rather than the candystripers they claim to be and vote him the hell out.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:29 AM on February 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:29 AM on February 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Dude, Charlie Angus has been all over this stuff from Day 1,
Swear to god, read that as "Charlies Angels have been over this stuff from Day 1".
posted by MartinWisse at 6:25 AM on February 16, 2012
Swear to god, read that as "Charlies Angels have been over this stuff from Day 1".
posted by MartinWisse at 6:25 AM on February 16, 2012
This couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
posted by chunking express at 7:37 AM on February 16, 2012
posted by chunking express at 7:37 AM on February 16, 2012
Also, today it looks like #TellVicEverything is a thing.
posted by chunking express at 7:40 AM on February 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by chunking express at 7:40 AM on February 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Just as a point of reference for how deeply those cuts still sting, my dad was one of those who was directly affected by Rae Days, as were his students. He's a life-long NDP voter but he still hasn't forgiven Rae. He didn't vote NDP provincially until Rae left the party.
I remember that differently; my mother was a teacher at the time, and I remember those picket lines vividly, as well as the fallout.
Rae took office after a Liberal government that had persistently hidden the size and degree of their fiscal mismanagement, (including some pretty brazen efforts to buy the election, I thought, but I was young and barely formed at the time, so memory is hazy) to the point that drastic action - the Rae Days - needed to be taken to right what was perceived at the time to be a sinking financial ship. But what happened next revealed a lot more about the political left in Canada, and Ontario in particular, than people are comfortable really talking about. Labor unions, to a one, turned against Rae; showing a shocking lack of political smarts and institutional solidarity, they immediately threw his narrowly-won government under a bus, and protested and struck rather than expressing solidarity in the face of this sort of financial adversity.
The Harris conservatives were immediately able to use that to portray unions as selfish, greedy and irresponsible, and here's the thing: despite the fact that the Harris government was led by a dumb, self-important, mendacious person (the Rob Ford of his day) and pursued a selfish, shortsighted and, profoundly irresponsible public agenda that I don't think Ontario has or will ever recover from, they were right about that. It might have been the only thing they were right about, but there it was brought to them on a silver platter.
The conservatives could sell the hell out of that, and the conservatives did. The Ontario political left had picked the hill they were going to die on and that's what they did, bleeding out from the holes they'd shot through their own feet. The left in Canada is only just now starting to recover from that fiasco, nearly two decades later.
posted by mhoye at 7:54 AM on February 16, 2012
I remember that differently; my mother was a teacher at the time, and I remember those picket lines vividly, as well as the fallout.
Rae took office after a Liberal government that had persistently hidden the size and degree of their fiscal mismanagement, (including some pretty brazen efforts to buy the election, I thought, but I was young and barely formed at the time, so memory is hazy) to the point that drastic action - the Rae Days - needed to be taken to right what was perceived at the time to be a sinking financial ship. But what happened next revealed a lot more about the political left in Canada, and Ontario in particular, than people are comfortable really talking about. Labor unions, to a one, turned against Rae; showing a shocking lack of political smarts and institutional solidarity, they immediately threw his narrowly-won government under a bus, and protested and struck rather than expressing solidarity in the face of this sort of financial adversity.
The Harris conservatives were immediately able to use that to portray unions as selfish, greedy and irresponsible, and here's the thing: despite the fact that the Harris government was led by a dumb, self-important, mendacious person (the Rob Ford of his day) and pursued a selfish, shortsighted and, profoundly irresponsible public agenda that I don't think Ontario has or will ever recover from, they were right about that. It might have been the only thing they were right about, but there it was brought to them on a silver platter.
The conservatives could sell the hell out of that, and the conservatives did. The Ontario political left had picked the hill they were going to die on and that's what they did, bleeding out from the holes they'd shot through their own feet. The left in Canada is only just now starting to recover from that fiasco, nearly two decades later.
posted by mhoye at 7:54 AM on February 16, 2012
C-309 - Preventing Persons from Concealing Their Identity during Riots and Unlawful Assemblies Act.
It seems that the Harper government wants to put a stop to V masks.
posted by Talez at 8:01 AM on February 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
It seems that the Harper government wants to put a stop to V masks.
posted by Talez at 8:01 AM on February 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is Blake Richards somehow unaware it gets cold in Canada to the point that not concealing your face during significant portions of the year is an invitation to immediate frost bite?
posted by Mitheral at 8:08 AM on February 16, 2012
posted by Mitheral at 8:08 AM on February 16, 2012
The reason Rae Days were so widely hated was that he was regarded as betraying the fundamental principles of his party. The cuts were viewed as a sell-out to Bay Street, putting big business' interests before those of the common workers, as represented by the unions. He's as much the object of scorn as Harper would be if he raised the HST.
Did the unions do the wrong thing politically? In the view of history, yes, their campaigns certainly made it easy for Harris to paint them as greedy and demonize them. Was their outrage real? Absolutely. They felt betrayed by the one party leader who had always pledged to stand by them.
posted by bonehead at 8:44 AM on February 16, 2012
Did the unions do the wrong thing politically? In the view of history, yes, their campaigns certainly made it easy for Harris to paint them as greedy and demonize them. Was their outrage real? Absolutely. They felt betrayed by the one party leader who had always pledged to stand by them.
posted by bonehead at 8:44 AM on February 16, 2012
From the Department of Broken Clocks: Margaret Wente says "On Internet privacy, I’m with the child pornographers."
I am scarcely the first person to point out that Stephen Harper’s government likes to demonize its opponents, or that it has a nasty authoritarian streak. But in this case, the dissent is unusually widespread. Those with doubts about the bill include opposition politicians, civil libertarians, privacy commissioners and Internet experts – plus more than a few small-c conservatives who wonder why our government insists on whipping up unnecessary moral panic when it doesn’t have to. ...posted by maudlin at 10:05 AM on February 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
So why do I stand with the child pornographers here? Because I’m not convinced the police need new powers to root out online child molesters. Judging by the recent highly publicized busts of child-porn rings, their existing powers seem to be working fine. Nor am I convinced that the police will never abuse their power. History shows they usually do. That’s why they need civilian oversight. That’s not liberal, in my view. That’s prudent.
Damn it. I have that bloated, uncomfortable feeling that generally accompanies agreement with Margaret Wente.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 4:54 PM on February 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 4:54 PM on February 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
Labor unions, to a one, turned against Rae; showing a shocking lack of political smarts and institutional solidarity, they immediately threw his narrowly-won government under a bus, and protested and struck rather than expressing solidarity in the face of this sort of financial adversity.
Back when I still supported (and volunteered for) the federal NDP, I was pretty pissed when Buzz Hargrove and the CAW ditched the NDP in favour of the Liberals during the 2006 election.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:31 PM on February 16, 2012
Back when I still supported (and volunteered for) the federal NDP, I was pretty pissed when Buzz Hargrove and the CAW ditched the NDP in favour of the Liberals during the 2006 election.
posted by KokuRyu at 5:31 PM on February 16, 2012
Ottawa Citizen: Vikileaks30 linked to House of Commons IP address
posted by flex at 7:09 PM on February 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by flex at 7:09 PM on February 16, 2012 [1 favorite]
"It's coming from inside the House!"
*cough*
I couldn't resist
posted by flex at 7:13 PM on February 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
*cough*
I couldn't resist
posted by flex at 7:13 PM on February 16, 2012 [4 favorites]
House Leader Peter Van Loan has asked the Speaker (a known douche bag) to investigate. You'd think the Conservatives would just like to forget the whole thing. Maybe it will blow over, over the weekend.
posted by KokuRyu at 9:57 AM on February 17, 2012
posted by KokuRyu at 9:57 AM on February 17, 2012
While it's impossible to say who is actually the using the address without a full-scale investigation undertaken by the House of Commons, a trace of the IP address shows it is also used by an employee of the House to post comments on a website for fans of the musician Paul Simon.
It just gets better and better.
posted by Fizz at 12:44 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
It just gets better and better.
posted by Fizz at 12:44 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
CBC: Toews steps back from "child pornographers" comment
In an interview with Evan Solomon, host of CBC Radio's The House, Toews said he has given some thought to the comments.
"And I've thought about this very carefully. If fair minded Canadians have come to the conclusion that my comments in that respect that I made in the heat of Parliamentary debate were not appropriate, I'm prepared to accept their judgment," Toews said.
The interview will air Saturday morning.
And more about the Twitter account/IP address discovery:
(tl;dr - the Tories are trying to pin this on the NDP, with no real proof)
The newspaper report said employees working off that IP address also visited Paul Simon fan sites and updated Wikipedia articles to give them a pro-NDP bias, leading to a vicious question period Friday in which the Conservatives accused the NDP of being behind the account.
Despite the wide range of people who use the IP address, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird took several opportunities to avoid answering questions, instead alleging the NDP were behind the Vikileaks30 Twitter account.
"Today we learned, Mr. Speaker, that the official NDP opposition have been caught in a nasty, dirty internet trick," Baird said in question period.
"I call on the NDP to stand up, to take responsibility for these dirty tricks, to apologize, Mr. Speaker, and to identify which one over there is responsible."
NDP Whip Chris Charlton demanded Baird retract the allegations. IT staff at the House of Commons confirmed the IP addresses could belong to any member of House administration or any user from any political party, she said, and the Speaker's office is looking into it.
"I would call on the minister to table in this House any evidence to back up his unfounded claims and if he doesn’t have such evidence, I would like him to immediately apologize and withdraw his statements unconditionally," she said.
Conservative House Leader Peter Van Loan refused to apologize, referring again to the media report.
posted by flex at 4:07 PM on February 17, 2012
In an interview with Evan Solomon, host of CBC Radio's The House, Toews said he has given some thought to the comments.
"And I've thought about this very carefully. If fair minded Canadians have come to the conclusion that my comments in that respect that I made in the heat of Parliamentary debate were not appropriate, I'm prepared to accept their judgment," Toews said.
The interview will air Saturday morning.
And more about the Twitter account/IP address discovery:
(tl;dr - the Tories are trying to pin this on the NDP, with no real proof)
The newspaper report said employees working off that IP address also visited Paul Simon fan sites and updated Wikipedia articles to give them a pro-NDP bias, leading to a vicious question period Friday in which the Conservatives accused the NDP of being behind the account.
Despite the wide range of people who use the IP address, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird took several opportunities to avoid answering questions, instead alleging the NDP were behind the Vikileaks30 Twitter account.
"Today we learned, Mr. Speaker, that the official NDP opposition have been caught in a nasty, dirty internet trick," Baird said in question period.
"I call on the NDP to stand up, to take responsibility for these dirty tricks, to apologize, Mr. Speaker, and to identify which one over there is responsible."
NDP Whip Chris Charlton demanded Baird retract the allegations. IT staff at the House of Commons confirmed the IP addresses could belong to any member of House administration or any user from any political party, she said, and the Speaker's office is looking into it.
"I would call on the minister to table in this House any evidence to back up his unfounded claims and if he doesn’t have such evidence, I would like him to immediately apologize and withdraw his statements unconditionally," she said.
Conservative House Leader Peter Van Loan refused to apologize, referring again to the media report.
posted by flex at 4:07 PM on February 17, 2012
Fucking DHCP, how does it work?
posted by maudlin at 5:20 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by maudlin at 5:20 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
At least this has given the Conservatives the opportunity to actively demonstrate their total inability to grasp basic networking functionality.
posted by mek at 5:32 PM on February 17, 2012
posted by mek at 5:32 PM on February 17, 2012
via Occupy Canada on Facebook:
*BREAKING NEWS* The VikiLeaks30 account is shutting down in light of recent government hunt for the identity of the account holder.
Last 3 tweets:
@vikileaks30: You are showing the government that the people have the real power. Farewell.
@vikileaks30: I am shutting down before any other innocent people are targeted. Please keep up the fight against #C30 Canada.
@vikileaks30: I am not in Ottawa. Many people have access to the email address. The Ottawa Citizen in particular is targeting the wrong person.
posted by flex at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
*BREAKING NEWS* The VikiLeaks30 account is shutting down in light of recent government hunt for the identity of the account holder.
Last 3 tweets:
@vikileaks30: You are showing the government that the people have the real power. Farewell.
@vikileaks30: I am shutting down before any other innocent people are targeted. Please keep up the fight against #C30 Canada.
@vikileaks30: I am not in Ottawa. Many people have access to the email address. The Ottawa Citizen in particular is targeting the wrong person.
posted by flex at 7:00 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
And more via Occupy Canada:
Canadian Privacy Law Blog: The hidden gag order in Bill C-30
"While much attention has been focused on the general problems with Bill C-30 - Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act, we are starting to see some very good commentary on the details.
One detail that hasn't really seen the light (and it may not be an accident) is the hidden gag order. Not only will the police, national security folks and the competition cops be able to get customer names, addresses, IP addresses and e-mail addresses without a warrant, there's a gag order that means you'll likely never find out you've been the subject of such an inquiry even if you ask your ISP."
posted by flex at 7:27 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Canadian Privacy Law Blog: The hidden gag order in Bill C-30
"While much attention has been focused on the general problems with Bill C-30 - Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act, we are starting to see some very good commentary on the details.
One detail that hasn't really seen the light (and it may not be an accident) is the hidden gag order. Not only will the police, national security folks and the competition cops be able to get customer names, addresses, IP addresses and e-mail addresses without a warrant, there's a gag order that means you'll likely never find out you've been the subject of such an inquiry even if you ask your ISP."
posted by flex at 7:27 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
If you're a progressive Canadian and you're still reading this, I think there's a point emerging here that deserves underscoring:
THIS is how vulnerable the big bad Harper Majority is. They've been cowed into backing off key legislation and launching a pointless, ultimately humiliating witch hunt by a single Twitter feed. We've got a mostly neutered press and two major parties on the opposition side of the House in varying degrees of disarray, and they're running scared from a Twitter feed.
I can't help but think they're genuinely afraid of most Canadians, what they want and how they think. They're so much weaker than they seem - that's why they're such posturing bullies. This could be the start of something . . .
posted by gompa at 9:03 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
THIS is how vulnerable the big bad Harper Majority is. They've been cowed into backing off key legislation and launching a pointless, ultimately humiliating witch hunt by a single Twitter feed. We've got a mostly neutered press and two major parties on the opposition side of the House in varying degrees of disarray, and they're running scared from a Twitter feed.
I can't help but think they're genuinely afraid of most Canadians, what they want and how they think. They're so much weaker than they seem - that's why they're such posturing bullies. This could be the start of something . . .
posted by gompa at 9:03 PM on February 17, 2012 [4 favorites]
I see the glass as half empty, gompa. If they will chase down the owner of a twitter feed because one of their politicians is embarrassed at the publication of public record information, just think what they'll do when this law is in place.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:31 AM on February 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Meatbomb at 1:31 AM on February 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Now that idiot Toews has been exposed as having NO CLUE as to the contents of this bill which he so viciously insisted would be supported by everyone except for child pornographers ...
Toews surprised by content of online surveillance bill
In an interview airing Saturday on CBC Radio's The House, Toews said his understanding of the bill is that police can only request information from the ISPs where they are conducting "a specific criminal investigation."
But Section 17 of the 'Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act' outlines "exceptional circumstances" under which "any police officer" can ask an ISP to turn over personal client information.
"I'd certainly like to see an explanation of that," Toews told host Evan Solomon after a week of public backlash against Bill C-30, which would require internet service providers to turn over client information without a warrant.
"This is the first time that I'm hearing this somehow extends ordinary police emergency powers [to telecommunications]. In my opinion, it doesn't. And it shouldn't."
Pro-tip: When you're the freaking Minister in charge, try to have a slight clue about the legislation you're proposing to jam down Canadian's throats.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 11:36 AM on February 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
Toews surprised by content of online surveillance bill
In an interview airing Saturday on CBC Radio's The House, Toews said his understanding of the bill is that police can only request information from the ISPs where they are conducting "a specific criminal investigation."
But Section 17 of the 'Protecting Children from Internet Predators Act' outlines "exceptional circumstances" under which "any police officer" can ask an ISP to turn over personal client information.
"I'd certainly like to see an explanation of that," Toews told host Evan Solomon after a week of public backlash against Bill C-30, which would require internet service providers to turn over client information without a warrant.
"This is the first time that I'm hearing this somehow extends ordinary police emergency powers [to telecommunications]. In my opinion, it doesn't. And it shouldn't."
Pro-tip: When you're the freaking Minister in charge, try to have a slight clue about the legislation you're proposing to jam down Canadian's throats.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 11:36 AM on February 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
It gets better, or worse, depending on your perspective. Now Toews is claiming that the publication of facts that are in the public record constitute "criminal acts" and are a threat to his family, worthy of police investigation.
This is an abuse of power of course, and a complete waste of scarce police resources.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 12:30 PM on February 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
This is an abuse of power of course, and a complete waste of scarce police resources.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 12:30 PM on February 18, 2012 [1 favorite]
All-encompassing searches require no warrant, and don't even have to be in the context of a criminal investigation.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:15 PM on February 19, 2012
posted by jeffburdges at 5:15 PM on February 19, 2012
Canada related : Deadline Day To Speak Out on TPP's Copyright Term Extension
posted by jeffburdges at 5:18 PM on February 19, 2012
posted by jeffburdges at 5:18 PM on February 19, 2012
Very similar to the "The Protecting Children from Internet Pornographers Act" in the U.S, from the same person who wrote SOPA.
This is all due to international cooperation on copyright, and I think actually part of ACTA.
Speaking of which: Protest drags down Europe’s SOPA: Hollywood heads for another defeat as the online world rejects an anti-counterfeiting proposal
posted by homunculus at 10:48 AM on February 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
This is all due to international cooperation on copyright, and I think actually part of ACTA.
Speaking of which: Protest drags down Europe’s SOPA: Hollywood heads for another defeat as the online world rejects an anti-counterfeiting proposal
posted by homunculus at 10:48 AM on February 21, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am surprised they haven't figured out that their best bet would be incremental changes, instead of pushing massive omnibus bills that are wholly unlikable.
posted by Theta States at 12:33 PM on February 21, 2012
posted by Theta States at 12:33 PM on February 21, 2012
They have a majority, and couldn't care less what Canadians think. Yesterday the Police Chiefs came out firmly in support of this ( duh ) and continued with this policy of denying the facts behind what this bill actually requires of ISP companies, and the huge costs of implementing it.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 1:43 PM on February 21, 2012
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 1:43 PM on February 21, 2012
Anonymous has revealed the name of Towes mistress in a YouTube video. Scandalous.
posted by chunking express at 5:07 AM on February 22, 2012
posted by chunking express at 5:07 AM on February 22, 2012
Here's the vid chunking express mentions. Not sure if it is sarcasm - I personally think it is excellent, again I am in awe of the Anonymous phenomenon. The woman he committed adultery with while married to his first wife is Stacey Meek.
"Shall we continue, Mr. Toews? Do we have your attention? How does it feel to have personal information about your family in the hands of people you know nothing about, with no control over who disseminates it or how it will be used? Let it be known that this is only a taste of the information we have access to, and this is only the beginning.... Let oit be known Mr Toews, that Anonymous will do to corrupt politicians exactly what you are attempting to do to the Canadian public. There will be no two tiered system of privacy for the government and the people of this country. You and any public official who spies, or supports spying on Canadian citizens, will reap exactly what you have sown."
posted by Meatbomb at 9:05 AM on February 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
"Shall we continue, Mr. Toews? Do we have your attention? How does it feel to have personal information about your family in the hands of people you know nothing about, with no control over who disseminates it or how it will be used? Let it be known that this is only a taste of the information we have access to, and this is only the beginning.... Let oit be known Mr Toews, that Anonymous will do to corrupt politicians exactly what you are attempting to do to the Canadian public. There will be no two tiered system of privacy for the government and the people of this country. You and any public official who spies, or supports spying on Canadian citizens, will reap exactly what you have sown."
posted by Meatbomb at 9:05 AM on February 22, 2012 [4 favorites]
Here's the full transcript.
"It would appear you have made many political enemies, Mr. Toews. Since Anonymous made an email address available through which the public can submit more Vikileaks, we have received no less than a dozen emails from your peers in Ottawa, several of whom have offered information or have made offers to provide us with information. And that does not include the messages from members of the public who know you in a personal capacity."
posted by Meatbomb at 9:15 AM on February 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
"It would appear you have made many political enemies, Mr. Toews. Since Anonymous made an email address available through which the public can submit more Vikileaks, we have received no less than a dozen emails from your peers in Ottawa, several of whom have offered information or have made offers to provide us with information. And that does not include the messages from members of the public who know you in a personal capacity."
posted by Meatbomb at 9:15 AM on February 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Anonymous take themselves more seriously than Bono. So awesome.
posted by chunking express at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2012
posted by chunking express at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2012
I can't believe the Harper Government has roused the ire of the beast with no heads.
I have a glorious image in my head of Toews wearily getting into his car after work, starting the motor running, maybe scraping his windows. He gets back in the car, tosses the scraper down, rubs his temples, takes a deep breath -- and then beats the crap out of his steering wheel, yelling, "ANONYMOUS BASTARDS!"
posted by stinkycheese at 4:19 PM on February 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
I have a glorious image in my head of Toews wearily getting into his car after work, starting the motor running, maybe scraping his windows. He gets back in the car, tosses the scraper down, rubs his temples, takes a deep breath -- and then beats the crap out of his steering wheel, yelling, "ANONYMOUS BASTARDS!"
posted by stinkycheese at 4:19 PM on February 22, 2012 [2 favorites]
Online surveillance bill setup costs estimated at $80M
That's only the cost to the government, of course. The cost to business will be much, much, higher - but that will all be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher billing rates.
posted by mek at 11:25 PM on February 22, 2012
That's only the cost to the government, of course. The cost to business will be much, much, higher - but that will all be passed on to the consumer in the form of higher billing rates.
posted by mek at 11:25 PM on February 22, 2012
Canada related : Canadian Universities Agree To Email Monitoring For Copyright Agency
posted by jeffburdges at 7:45 AM on February 26, 2012
posted by jeffburdges at 7:45 AM on February 26, 2012
Well TWO Canadian universities. It's just the UWO and UofT at the moment.
posted by Mitheral at 10:31 AM on February 26, 2012
posted by Mitheral at 10:31 AM on February 26, 2012
Breaking: Liberal staffer behind vikileaks fired.
posted by bonehead at 12:40 PM on February 27, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by bonehead at 12:40 PM on February 27, 2012 [1 favorite]
Baird never misses an opportunity to take the low road:
posted by bonehead at 2:58 PM on February 27, 2012
Mr. Baird responded by saying there are times when emotions get strained in the House, especially when colleagues are under attack. He said he “unequivocally and unconditionally” retracted his comments about the NDP.From the G&M.
“And I would also like to retract the comments that I made about the Liberal Party on Friday last as well,” the minister added, “in which I said I wasn’t accusing them of anything.”
posted by bonehead at 2:58 PM on February 27, 2012
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