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It's a gurn-off!
March 1, 2012 11:19 PM   Subscribe


 
The British have needed something similar to our Captain Kirk vs. Captain Picard rivalry...

they used to have Beatles vs. Stones but that was in the 60s...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:32 PM on March 1, 2012


Currently, the formulation and release of Sherlock episodes is a Moffat-limited process. That's the true problem.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:06 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Tardis > Watson
posted by I love you more when I eat paint chips at 12:38 AM on March 2, 2012 [7 favorites]


our Captain Kirk vs. Captain Picard

Your Captain Picard? Patrick Stewart is a Yorkshire lad, I'll have you know. Get yer mitts off our stars!
posted by Abiezer at 12:46 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Kirk is a Gaelic word meaning 'church', isn't it. The Scots could potentially claim James T. Kirk as one of them, depending on how far back into lexical history you'd want to go back.
posted by the cydonian at 1:33 AM on March 2, 2012


Picard's French, ain't he?
posted by brundlefly at 1:48 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Kirk is a Gaelic word meaning 'church', isn't it.

I had it in my head that it was viking so I looked it up in the oed, the first recorded use is in the Ormulum in 1200AD, which is written in middle English, in 1209 it was recorded as part of an Englishman's name. It does mean church in Scotland but it's not recorded until 1389.

(I am very much aware that reading this out of the dictionary does not make me an expert.)
posted by biffa at 1:57 AM on March 2, 2012


Okay I'm with you on TARDIS > Watson, but, Mrs. Hudson > K-9. Also, the Doctor always wanted to be a ginger and Benedict Cumberbatch secretly IS a ginger. But, the sonic screwdriver is cooler than a magnifying glass, and fez > deerstalker, so I think we're back at a draw.

The real fight that's been going on among People Who Are Wrong On The Internet is River Song vs Irene Adler. As far as I'm concerned both sides are wrong as soon as they start the argument.
posted by Mizu at 2:10 AM on March 2, 2012 [8 favorites]


I'm sorry I don't understand how is there even a debate over who is better than The Woman, there is no one better than Irene Adler ever ever how can you even write those words down, internet, I thought we understood one another.

(I refer, of course, to the original, written version of Adler. The tv version is a debate I'm not touching with a ten-foot pole.)
posted by kalimac at 2:21 AM on March 2, 2012


This is why they are Wrong On The Internet, kalimac.
posted by Mizu at 2:34 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


It's funny because Moffat seems determined to turn Sherlock into The Doctor and The Doctor into Sherlock.
posted by fight or flight at 2:40 AM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


> they used to have Beatles vs. Stones but that was in the 60s...

They also had Blur vs Oasis in the 1990s.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 2:56 AM on March 2, 2012


Ahem. Capt Kirk is Canadian.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:00 AM on March 2, 2012


William Shatner is Canadian, Captian Kirk is from Iowa.
posted by biffa at 3:48 AM on March 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


Squee!
posted by anotherpanacea at 3:55 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


This is why we need a nationalised army of Moffet-clones. What could possibly go wrong?
posted by rikschell at 4:29 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Schattner is playing someone who is from Iowa, sure, but Shatner is Capt Kirk and Shattner is Canadian ergo Kirk is Canadian.
I hope you can see perfectness (perfectitude?) of my logic.
posted by From Bklyn at 4:45 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


This is why we need a nationalised army of Moffet-clones. What could possibly go wrong?

They run amok, trying to take over the country, only to be soundly defeated by Tom Baker and Jeremy Brett.

(Yes, I know Mr. Brett is no longer with us, but if you get a Moffet-clone army, I get to bring Jeremy Brett back to life.)
posted by chambers at 4:46 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Gene Roddenberry is from the US, therefore both shows are USian.

Also, I'd like the panel to address the question of which of The Doctor and The Sherlock is uglier. They both look like Alice the Goon crossed with a rat, only with worse hair.
posted by DU at 4:47 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Tardis > Watson
But can the Tradis snuggle you in a comfy jumper?!
probably the oddest thing I have ever typed on the internet
posted by pointystick at 5:23 AM on March 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


Did you see "The Doctor's Wife?" Idris can snuggle me in any jumper she wants.
posted by KingEdRa at 6:08 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


DU: "Also, I'd like the panel to address the question of which of The Doctor and The Sherlock is uglier. They both look like Alice the Goon crossed with a rat, only with worse hair."

You take that back. Now.
posted by Gordafarin at 6:10 AM on March 2, 2012 [12 favorites]


The creator's "Wholock" trailer starts a bit clunky, but I was grinning like an idiot by the end.
posted by grabbingsand at 6:15 AM on March 2, 2012


If this is true, EVERYONE'S DREAMS COULD COME TRUE.

(except John Simm fans)
posted by Lucinda at 6:24 AM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Hmm. I've heard of the Hero with a Thousand Faces.

Up til now I never realized that's because they were all The Doctor.
posted by philipy at 6:59 AM on March 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


John Simm as the Master is one of my favorite things of all time. Hell, I even like the accompanying serials.

Cumberbatch would be okay, but it'd feel a bit like the same thing all over again. Handsome youngish white male. I'd love for there to be an older, fatter, more droll, more oleaginous Master. Or a Master who reminds me of the drug kingpin tot from RoboCop 2, or a Master who reminds me of Veruca Salt.
posted by Sticherbeast at 7:03 AM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Tamsin Greig would be my pick.
posted by Artw at 7:58 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Wow, I'm seriously surprised to find both those men's looks defended so vigorously. I assumed they'd chosen someone ugly on purpose to indicate how smart he is. It had not even occurred to me that people might find this nose and eyebrow combo attractive.
posted by DU at 8:01 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Wow, I'm seriously surprised to find both those men's looks defended so vigorously.

Yeah, that whole "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing is a real PITA, amirite?
posted by fight or flight at 8:08 AM on March 2, 2012


Wow, I'm seriously surprised to find both those men's looks defended so vigorously

Both MS & BC in these roles play very intelligent, dry-witted, eminently capable characters. It's sexy as all fuck out. And the actors are pretty cute, too.
posted by pointystick at 8:13 AM on March 2, 2012 [13 favorites]


I once read an interview where Benedict Cumberbatch said he wished he looked less like Sid from Ice Age. I was fairly impressed with the resemblance and can now never un-see it, but this has done nothing to lessen my considerable ardour for him. (He made a documentary about Terence Rattigan! He wants kids! CALL ME!)

I guess the point is, looks aren't everything?
posted by kalimac at 8:23 AM on March 2, 2012


Capt Kirk is Canadian.

Picard's Quebecois.
posted by StickyCarpet at 9:29 AM on March 2, 2012


So between this and the hour, who at the BBC has a thing for high cheekboned fey wunderkinds?
posted by The Whelk at 10:05 AM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Huh. It's literally never occurred to me before that some people legitimately consider Benedict Cumberbatch or Matt Smith unattractive. I mean, I was vaguely aware that they're not conventionally attractive in the Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise sense, maybe, but.... seriously? Just look at him! And him!

I bet you think Joseph Gordon-Levitt is ugly, too. Why do you hate everything that's good in the world?
posted by Phire at 10:06 AM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Benny Crumbles looks a bit like Voldemort and Nagini's love child to me, tbh. Sorry Crumblelovers. And Matt Smith kind of looks like he's claymation.
posted by elizardbits at 10:22 AM on March 2, 2012


River: Have we done Easter Island yet?
The Doctor: Yes, I've got Easter Island.
River: They worshipped you there! Have you seen the statues?
posted by Artw at 10:22 AM on March 2, 2012


Clarification to my first comment (and the ensuing derail): Kirk vs. Picard was never intended as a purely American rivalry, it's a Nerd rivalry (and more specifically a Trek Nerd rivalry) which is a nation to itself. Beatles vs. Stones was a Rock rivalry, but the only all-British pop culture rivalry that went far beyond the UK (Blur vs. Oasis didn't) I could think of at 11:30PM Pacific Time on a Thursday Night after spending all day celebrating the death of Breitbart. Maybe a better example would've been Patrick Stewart as Picard vs. Patrick Stewart as Xavier (which might've provided a better example for everything, but maybe not... it looks like I'm going to have overthinked beans for lunch).
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:39 AM on March 2, 2012


Benedict Cumberbatch is like the lovechild of Cillian Murphy and Alan Rickman. The eyes, the voice, the cheekbones... they add up to more than the sum of their parts.
posted by Gordafarin at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2012 [3 favorites]


Only a dude would like Irene Adler better than River Song.
posted by dame at 12:28 PM on March 2, 2012


I'm going to my Cilian Murphy place. Shhhh, there is no danger here, shhhh
posted by The Whelk at 12:34 PM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


I'm a straight chick, and I prefer Irene Adler to River Song. Especially S5 River Song. God, she was infuriating.
posted by Phire at 12:35 PM on March 2, 2012 [2 favorites]


Sherlock is a Man who wants to be God
The Doctor is a God who wants to be a Man

--Stephen Moffat
I might have the order reversed, I think he tweeted this...
posted by jrishel at 12:46 PM on March 2, 2012 [4 favorites]


Really enjoyed this. I also saw it as a testament to the limits of Moffat's writing abilities--aside from the number of hearts, the two characters are pretty much fungible.

Though Cumberbatch is better looking.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:06 PM on March 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


To anyone professing amazement at Cumberbatch - make sure you see him in motion and hear him speak. These two specifics will make it much easier to understand.

Having never seen him in anything before, the first time he spoke in Sherlock my eyebrows nearly hit my hairline.

Combine that with the biting intelligence and great, sweeping coats he likes to dash around in (in-character, at least) and it's like the writing team knew I had a great, thumping crush on Tim Curry as Cardinal Richelieu when i was 10.
(The growly drawl! And the sweeping around dramatically in robes, throwing out snappy orders! It looked like way more fun than princessing to ten year old me.)
posted by pseudonymph at 6:11 PM on March 2, 2012 [5 favorites]


Mr Crumbles is a testament to motion and sound. Without them he's a serious butterface. It seems sometimes like his forehead is melting or something. But swagger him around and give him a wacky face to make and something to say and damn. Completely different guy. Matt Smith is much the same. I think maybe Moffat grows them in vats.
posted by Mizu at 12:16 AM on March 3, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think Gatiss sets traps for them at English public schools.
posted by The Whelk at 8:11 AM on March 3, 2012 [3 favorites]


Another possible contender.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on March 4, 2012




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