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July 24, 2012 1:19 PM   Subscribe

"According to a photo published to the 'Wipe Out Homophobia" Facebook group, Chick-Fil-A has announced a voluntary recall of Jim Henson's Creature Shop Puppet Kids Meal toys, and is blaming it on safety issues. There's no information on when the notice was allegedly put up, but the 'recall' is backdated to one day before the Jim Henson Company cut ties with Chick-Fil-A for its donations to anti-gay groups."* All this comes on the heels of Chick-Fil-A's COO, Dan Cathy, owning up to the company's contributions to anti-gay causes in a recent interview: "Well, guilty as charged."

Months after Northeastern University's Student Senate voted to keep a Chcik-Fil-A franchise from their campus Boston Mayor, Tom Menino last week said: "Chick-fil-A doesn’t belong in Boston.”

Among the many boycotting the restaurant chain is 'Hangover' and 'Office' actor Ed Helms.

Jon Stewart weighs in [video | 06:31], as does former governor of Arkansas and Fox News host Mike Hukabee who is calling for a 'National Chick-Fil-A Appreciation Day.'

Others are organizing a 'National Same Sex Kiss Day' at Chick Fil A's around the country on Friday, August 3RD.
posted by ericb (274 comments total) 21 users marked this as a favorite

 
I don't see what Chick-Fil-A thinks they win out of taking on the Muppets. Maybe Cathy wants his company to be another hateful footnote in American fast food history.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:24 PM on July 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


There's definitely more to the whole story now, but there is already a pretty recent (previously) on here.
posted by Curious Artificer at 1:24 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I wish I ate shite fast food and lived somewhere where there was a Chick-Fil-A so that I could boycott it.
posted by Decani at 1:24 PM on July 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


" ... reports of children getting their fingers stuck in the holes of puppets ..."

I'm sorry. I like that sentence so much I wanted to repeat it.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:24 PM on July 24, 2012 [41 favorites]


What a dick. I don't live near any Chick-Fil-A locations, but I would be pleased if any of you who do are now calling them "Dick-Fil-A."
posted by wenestvedt at 1:26 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


You know I use to be ignorant of the issues with Chick-Fil-A, you know because the kids liked it (and their iced tea is awesome) but this is it.

Fuck those guys.
posted by ShawnString at 1:26 PM on July 24, 2012


Chik fil A's secret recipe. For those in withdrawal.
posted by mrzarquon at 1:26 PM on July 24, 2012 [9 favorites]


Fuck them and the chicken they rode in on.
posted by elizardbits at 1:27 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Here's How to Make Your Very Own 'Chick-Fil-Gay' Sandwich! [video].
posted by ericb at 1:28 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Geez, I wish I could find the reference to the particular combination of items you can order at Chick-Fil-A that, with tax, comes to a total of $6.66 and makes the management go all twitchy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:28 PM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]




There is one store in MA. The first time I attempted to eat there it was Sunday and it was closed. The second time they were open so I was all excited to eat this amazing chicken sandwich I'd been hearing so much about.

It's... a fried chicken sandwich. What the hell? That's it?

Even if their sandwich was made with the tears of angels and cured gout, fuck them and their support of hate. I'm sure Jesus would agree.
posted by bondcliff at 1:31 PM on July 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


"Forget the Muppets; for our next promotional tie-in, we'll just go with the Teletub . . . oh, wait."
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:33 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Christ, what a Chick-Fil-A-hole.
posted by Devils Rancher at 1:34 PM on July 24, 2012 [35 favorites]




There are actually two Chick-Fil-A's in Massachusetts -- Burlington Mall and Peabody's Northshore Mall.
posted by ericb at 1:34 PM on July 24, 2012


Cathy's somewhat glib response: "Well, guilty as charged."

He went on to note, "We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that...we know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles."


Ain't no chicken good enough to support this kind of shit.
posted by Splunge at 1:34 PM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]


From a practical business/law standpoint, somebody please help me understand this, because it seems like people are conflating some issues (quote from the Tom Menino link):

“Chick-fil-A doesn’t belong in Boston,” Menino told the Boston Herald on Thursday. “You can’t have a business in the city of Boston that discriminates against the population."


It's one thing that they're reprehensible and give money to causes that suck, but that's protected free speech. How do they "discriminate against the population"? Is it the case that they won't serve gay customers?
posted by jbickers at 1:34 PM on July 24, 2012


Any woman want to meet me at a Chick-Fil-A in Fredericksburg, VA for the kiss in. Forgive the fact that I'm married to a man.

Seriously, I plan on going to one of the CFAs for on the 3rd of August.
posted by SuzySmith at 1:35 PM on July 24, 2012 [13 favorites]


Yeah, I'd like to see nationwide gay makeouts just over the property line of every single CFA on Labor Day weekend.

MAKE IT HAPPEN, INTERNETS.
posted by elizardbits at 1:37 PM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]


Is it the case that they won't serve gay customers?

In the old thread someone said that a franchise owner who married their partner had to leave their job.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:37 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Due to the pressure deep frying, their chicken really is pretty dang good for fast food.

Doesn't make up for their politics of course.
posted by sotonohito at 1:37 PM on July 24, 2012


oops missed the facebook link because ew facebook
posted by elizardbits at 1:38 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Is it the case that they won't serve gay customers?

It's because they actively support causes that persecute and demonize a section of their customer base.
posted by Old'n'Busted at 1:43 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Chick-fil-LAME!
posted by brundlefly at 1:43 PM on July 24, 2012


The Facebook photo has a typo.

"icedream"

Is this intentional? Or is that supposed to be ice cream? Does the company have a dessert called icedream??

Oh.. wait.. Ice Dream. Not Iced Ream.


....

Carry on.
posted by Malice at 1:43 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


It's one thing that they're reprehensible and give money to causes that suck, but that's protected free speech. How do they "discriminate against the population"? Is it the case that they won't serve gay customers?

Chick-Fil-A refuses to serve gay customers...on Sunday, when all franchises are closed. As far as I know, they pretty much serve anybody chicken.

I think that as long as Chick-Fil-A doesn't refuse someone service or employment based on sexual orientation, they're pretty much free to support bigoted causes. Unfortunately, there is no federal law against assholes operating major fast food franchises.
posted by Roentgen at 1:44 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


It's really nice to see that in this day and age a company can still hold onto its values and valiantly put itself out of business like this.
posted by griphus at 1:44 PM on July 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


There are actually two Chick-Fil-A's in Massachusetts -- Burlington Mall and Peabody's Northshore Mall.

There is one store in MA. The first time I attempted to eat there it was Sunday and it was closed. The second time they were open so I was all excited to eat this amazing chicken sandwich I'd been hearing so much about.


I went to the one in Burlington on a Sunday and remember thinking, wow this really sticks out like a sore thumb, with all the other restaurants in the food court open.
posted by Melismata at 1:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I wish I ate shite fast food and lived somewhere where there was a Chick-Fil-A so that I could boycott it.

I wish I didn't have a girlfriend so I could so totally make out with some guy in front of a Chick-Fil-A.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [20 favorites]


Wait.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


WISH GRANTED
posted by griphus at 1:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [46 favorites]




The Atlantic: In Defense of Eating at Chick-fil-A.
posted by ericb at 1:48 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Also, anyone here have access to the NYU cafeteria? I think that's the only Chick-Fil-A in NYC.
posted by griphus at 1:48 PM on July 24, 2012


Sojourner: Politics and Purchases.
posted by ericb at 1:49 PM on July 24, 2012


griphus, my brother and I have been trying to figure it out. He thinks we need an NYU ID.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 1:49 PM on July 24, 2012


As much as I love the idea of the make-out-in, it ultimately won't change the situation. The loyal following of evangelicals will dig in and support CFA even more for taking an unpopular stand against the Gay Agenda and for Traditional Values.

The only hope of CFA abandoning this position is if the 3rd generation of the family decides to sell out to private equity or wall street for a megaton of cash.
posted by dr_dank at 1:50 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


a quote, from AARON SORKIN SPEECHIFYING (The American President)

"America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free"."

meaning, the 1st Amendment. the one that guarantees freedom of both speech and religion. I do NOT support anti-gay anything, but I have a right to speak against it as much as he and his private company have a right to speak for it.
posted by ninjew at 1:50 PM on July 24, 2012 [10 favorites]


Just to be clear: you guys have a fast food chain run by good ol' boys who all shag their first wives just as God intended and don't fancy men no siree.

And it's called Chick-Fil-A?

Buy shares in satire, I say. This stuff writes itself.
posted by MuffinMan at 1:50 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


You need either an NYU ID or an escort with an NYU ID, from what I recall.
posted by griphus at 1:50 PM on July 24, 2012


Oh, and to quote Ron Luciano from his book "Fall of the Roman Umpire" (early 1980s):

[At the ballpark in Cleveland] I tried the Chicken-Fil-A. When I opened the sandwich my first thought was, this is all I got? One little piece of chicken? Then I took a bite out of it and my next thought was, thank goodness that was all I got.
posted by Melismata at 1:53 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


I think that as long as Chick-Fil-A doesn't refuse someone service or employment based on sexual orientation, they're pretty much free to support bigoted causes. Unfortunately, there is no federal law against assholes operating major fast food franchises.

Oh sure, they definitely have that right. Just like the Boy Scouts. And we all have the right to call them assholes for it.

Related.
posted by emjaybee at 1:53 PM on July 24, 2012 [16 favorites]


Also, anyone here have access to the NYU cafeteria? I think that's the only Chick-Fil-A in NYC.

Back when I lived in New York and still ate Chik-Fil-A, I never had a problem walking into the NYU food court in order to get my fix. Just walk like you know what you're doing, which is the trick to sneaking into 99% of the places you aren't supposed to be.
posted by Bookhouse at 1:54 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


You need either an NYU ID or an escort with an NYU ID, from what I recall.

Nope, I went once ok twice to see what all the kerfuffle was about. Anyone can go.
posted by lalex at 1:56 PM on July 24, 2012


Just walk like you know what you're doing, which is the trick to sneaking into 99% of the places you aren't supposed to be.

Are you my sophomore year sociology professor? He once devoted about 15-20 mins of class time to instructions on how to sneak in anywhere by looking Determined and Important.
posted by griphus at 1:56 PM on July 24, 2012 [22 favorites]


From The Atlantic article: ...because I refuse to contribute to the ineffective boycott culture that's springing up across America...

I'm flummoxed that so many consumers are so quick these days to call for boycotts of any company that deviates from their personal or political views.


Seriously? It's called ethical consumerism, look into it.

Oh, and here's a list of boycotts, many of which you'll find were effective and from a long long time ago.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:56 PM on July 24, 2012 [19 favorites]


If you don't have a Chick-Fil-A to boycott, you could boycott some other anti-marriage corporation, such as Cinemark theaters, which donated a large sum of money to the pro-Prop 8 fight. I've been trying to find a definitive list but Google is all clogged up with the more recent news.
posted by muddgirl at 1:56 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


jbickers, Chick-Fil-A won't sell franchises to openly gay or lesbian business people. Tom Menino is spot on in not wanting their shit in Boston.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:57 PM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


I think that as long as Chick-Fil-A doesn't refuse someone service or employment based on sexual orientation, they're pretty much free to support bigoted causes. Unfortunately, there is no federal law against assholes operating major fast food franchises.

Oh sure, they definitely have that right. Just like the Boy Scouts. And we all have the right to call them assholes for it.


Of course we have the rights to call them assholes. But does the mayor of Boston have the right to deny them the opportunity to do business because of it? That to me is pretty chilling, even from the other side of this issue.
posted by jbickers at 1:58 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


emjaybee: " Related."

Chick Fil A
Carl's Jr.
WHITE CASTLE. Whaaaaaaaat?!
Domino's Pizza
Waffle House.

What the hell, White Castle? What. The. Hell.

I never eat WC ratburgers anymore, but damn.
posted by zarq at 1:59 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


I really don't agree with the agenda they're pushing, but it's really up to them to push it. Perhaps it's my own misconception, but I think that there's really nothing that Chick-Fil-A can do to support the machinations of progressive gay rights and equality that are already in motion. Their owner's beliefs are what they are... I also think it's stupid that they close on Sundays.

That said, despite the fact that I think that they are doing themselves a ignorant disservice by alienating a huge portion of a potential customer base and I think their "biblical family" ideals are futile, I don't plan on boycotting this place, any more than I plan on forcing my wife to get rid of her VW.
posted by Debaser626 at 2:01 PM on July 24, 2012


I think that's the only Chick-Fil-A in NYC.

Which is SO WEIRD.
posted by davidjmcgee at 2:01 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Please rename Metafilter to Chick-Fil-A Eyewitness News Team.
posted by Tanizaki at 2:01 PM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


SHUT YOUR LIBERAL MOUTHS AND BUY OUR PRODUCTS, CONSUMER CITIZENS! OUR CHICKEN IS TASTY AND OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE IS ABOVE REPROACH! and don't forget to fast every sunday
posted by moammargaret at 2:02 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Eat more kale.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [22 favorites]


The Atlantic: In Defense of Eating at Chick-fil-A.

The author of that article neatly jumps back and forth over the line separating "does not support gay marriage" and "opposes gay marriage". That puts him in the "Frum Dilemma": either he is too ignorant to understand that that distinction is at the core of America, or he's being deliberately deceptive. Luckily, no matter which way it resolves we can confidently dismiss his comment.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:04 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


But does the mayor of Boston have the right to deny them the opportunity to do business because of it?

No, he doesn't. I'm sure his comment was meant to be symbolic and an expression of his revulsion vis-a-vis Chick-Fil-A ... and to note his concern:
"We’re an open city, we’re a city that’s at the forefront of inclusion. That’s the Freedom Trail. That’s where it all started right here. And we’re not going to have a company, Chick-fil-A or whatever the hell the name is, on our Freedom Trail."
The Freedom Trail is 'sacred' to many New Englanders. To attempt to put a Chick-Fil-A somewhere along it would likely bring quite an uproar here.
posted by ericb at 2:04 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Chick-Fil-A won't sell franchises to openly gay or lesbian business people.

Do you have a link/citation to any information about this?
posted by andoatnp at 2:04 PM on July 24, 2012


Now I'm sad that I stopped eating any junk/fast food over a decade ago when I read Fast Food Nation.

Because if I hadn't I could boycott these evil snots.
posted by bearwife at 2:04 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Domino's Pizza

That's a bit outdated; the right-wing founder sold off all of his shares in the company some years ago. You can eat there with a clear conscience (or as clear as it can be from buying from a multinational chain with crappy pizza, but that's a different argument).

Any dudes want to smooch me at the Owings Mills Chick-Fil-A next week? My wife will understand.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:07 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


In case anyone is wondering, the right spins it like this: Mainstream media invents gay marriage Chick-fil-A controversy warning: newsmax link

Indeed, all Cathy said was:

I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say 'we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage' and I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about".

Hmm...
posted by King Bee at 2:09 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Anyone who is down on consumer activism should take a page from Cracker Barrel. Even more remarkable was that this was in the 90s when antigay bullshit was much more likely to be tolerated.
posted by moammargaret at 2:09 PM on July 24, 2012


andoatnp: " Do you have a link/citation to any information about this?"

I posted this link to a 2007 Forbes profile of the company in the other thread: The Cult of Chick-fil-A
Loyalty to the company isn't the only thing that matters to Cathy, who wants married workers, believing they are more industrious and productive. One in three company operators have attended Christian-based relationship-building retreats through WinShape at Berry College in Mount Berry, Ga. The programs include classes on conflict resolution and communication. Family members of prospective operators--children, even--are frequently interviewed so Cathy and his family can learn more about job candidates and their relationships at home. "If a man can't manage his own life, he can't manage a business," says Cathy, who says he would probably fire an employee or terminate an operator who "has been sinful or done something harmful to their family members."

The parent company asks people who apply for an operator license to disclose marital status, number of dependents and involvement in "community, civic, social, church and/or professional organizations."
They didn't ask him about gay employees or operators. But considering the extensive vetting process that applicants go through, it seems highly likely that an openly gay, lesbian or transgender applicant would be rejected for other reasons.
posted by zarq at 2:09 PM on July 24, 2012 [9 favorites]


The Freedom Trail is 'sacred' to many New Englanders. To attempt to put a Chick-Fil-A somewhere along it would likely bring quite an uproar here.

So, if something is sacred to somebody, then they're entitled to it and we should respect it.

Wait.

I swear to you, I am NOT on CFA's side and I hate what they're doing, but there really seems to be a double standard here that could cut really deeply both ways.
posted by jbickers at 2:12 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say 'we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage' and I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about".

Honestly the first time I read this quote I thought it was PRO equal marriage rights -- I was like "Yeah, right on! Who the hell are we to say what counts as marriage and what love is? I bet God is pretty pissed at all the people down here saying it's not a real marriage if there're two men or two women in it". Then it turns out it's the other way around. I'm sure I'm hopelessly naive but I feel like this happens to me kind of a lot.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 2:12 PM on July 24, 2012 [22 favorites]


"...thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles."

Thank God we live in a country where we can capitalize on our freedoms to prevent everybody else from getting them.

Would that we lived in a country where assholes like this went swiftly out of business.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:13 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Perhaps it's my own misconception, but I think that there's really nothing that Chick-Fil-A can do to support the machinations of progressive gay rights and equality that are already in motion.

They've donated large sums of money to explicitely anti-gay organizations. Those donation dollars come from their profits. Those profits come from their consumers. Eating at Chick-Fil-A is donating small amounts of money to anti-gay organizations.

Therefore, I avoid eating at Chick-Fil-A (I will confess that when I was a Maid of Honor I took a starving bride there to avoid a future meltdown) and I encourage others to do so as well. Corporate profit is NOT disconnected from consumers, no matter what corporations want us to think.
posted by muddgirl at 2:15 PM on July 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


Please rename Metafilter to Chick-Fil-A Eyewitness News Team.

only if you give me a ride in the Doctor Who sky chopper
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:15 PM on July 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


I wonder if misguided people are going to call for boycotting The Muppets, which is no longer a Henson Company property? I suppose they could boycott Dinosaur Train, but they're probably already boycotting PBS, and well, the show does paleobiology.

Have I mentioned that I have a bit of a culty love for The Hensons? Including that flawed gem Mirrormask? I really need to check out Dinosaur Train one of these days.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:16 PM on July 24, 2012


"A representative for the Jim Henson Company told HuffPost Gay Voices they had no further statement beyond what was posted on their Facebook page, and that those inquiring about what happened with the toys should contact Chick-Fil-A as they 'are at the front of what is currently happening.'"*
posted by ericb at 2:21 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


.... there really seems to be a double standard here that could cut really deeply both ways.

I think the cuts have been going one way for quite some time. What's new is the cutting back.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:22 PM on July 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


I really need to check out Dinosaur Train one of these days.

Eh..it's Muppet-looking, but so frightfully earnest and cheesy and intent on stuffing little brains with facts that there is no conflict, therefore no plot, or stories, to speak of. It's a decent show, but it's really for kids only in a way that many other Henson properties weren't. You would think you couldn't make time-traveling dinosaurs boring, but you'd be wrong. Though it is funnier to watch all the ways they get around "dinosaurs meet other dinosaurs who would normally eat them and don't get eaten."

/derail
posted by emjaybee at 2:25 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


It's great to see the Muppets' commitment to diversity as demonstrated here. I'm glad that there's room for all kinds of people at the Muppets.
posted by Infinity_8 at 2:27 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


"Meanwhile, more inflammatory rhetoric from Chick-fil-A's president and COO Dan Cathy has surfaced.

In audio from a recent event at Hope Community Church in Raleigh, North Carolina, Cathy can be heard telling attendees that Godlessness has led to some 'twisted up kind of stuff' like 'Washington trying to redefine the definition of marriage.'

He continues:
'Because we have not acknowledged God and because we have not thanked God...we have been left victim to the foolishness of our own thoughts, and as result, we are suffering the consequences of a society and culture who has not acknowledged God or not thanked God-he's left us to a deprived mind. It's tragic and we live in a culture of that today.'"*
posted by ericb at 2:27 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


An acquaintance of mine claims he was, in an odd sort of way, directly responsible for there not having been a Chick-Fil-A in my university for a long time. He was the manager of the food service stuff, and unmarried and "living in sin" with a woman. He said Chick-Fil-A wouldn't grant a franchise to the university because of that.

RoentgenI think that as long as Chick-Fil-A doesn't refuse someone service or employment based on sexual orientation, they're pretty much free to support bigoted causes.

Why are there always posts like this?

Of course they're free to be bigoted assholes. And we're free to protest, gripe on the internet, boycott, mock them, etc.
posted by sotonohito at 2:27 PM on July 24, 2012 [16 favorites]


Which is SO WEIRD.

Chick-Fil-As aren't open on Sundays. It wouldn't be economical to operate a franchise in NYC.

The only other place that I know of in the area is Paramus Park mall. Paramus has blue laws, and the whole mall is closed on Sundays.
posted by 1970s Antihero at 2:28 PM on July 24, 2012


Pro-Chick-Fil-A info about the franchisee application process.

A Forbes article about the vetting of franchisees to match the Cathys' flavor of Christianity. A New York Times article about the same.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:28 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I have written a few m4m missed connection on Craigslist for the Chick-Fil-A in Chicago. I hope that I've done my part to make it a great spot to meet a nice guy. I mean it's only half a block off of the Mag Mile. Make it happen people.
posted by mike_bling at 2:28 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


It wouldn't be economical to operate a franchise in NYC.

No, I don't mean it's weird that there aren't others, I mean it's really, really weird that there's one at NYU, a school that banned Coca-Cola and has an enormous gay population; why haven't they kicked these fuckers to the curb yet?
posted by davidjmcgee at 2:30 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Chick-Fil-A's COO, Dan Cathy, owning up to the company's contributions to anti-gay causes in a recent interview: "Well, guilty as charged.

Someone got teased for their last name as a schoolboy and never got over it, methinks.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:30 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


(By which I mean, why hasn't NYU booted Chick-fil-A?)
posted by davidjmcgee at 2:31 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I am...perplexed...by the recent outrage about Chik-Fil-A and the BSA. Not unsupportive of it, mind, just perplexed. These entities have been known bigots for YEARS, and people are only just now getting upset about it?

Better late than never at all, I suppose, and I am glad people are finally starting to call these assholes out for what they are. Still, I can't help but wonder if the people finally getting mad about it only just got internet/information access?
posted by MissySedai at 2:32 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit.... [W]e are married to our first wives.

It never fails to amuse me how the thumpers pick and choose the definition of "definition" when it comes to biblical definitions. The list of men in the Bible (most often in the Old Testament) who have many, many wives is quite long.

"Oh, but that's the OLD Testament. In the NEW Testament, it says (blah blah Timothy blah blah)."

"Ah, but Leviticus, from which you draw all of your homophobia, is the OLD Testament."

"THAT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF REASONS."
posted by tzikeh at 2:32 PM on July 24, 2012 [64 favorites]


Chik fil A's secret recipe. For those in withdrawal.

The southern style chicken sandwich at McD's is close enough for government work.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:32 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


What is the "biblical definition of marriage" anyway? I remember from being forced to read the Bible that people would have like 20 concubines and stone their wives for adultery and shit. Is there anywhere in the Bible where God says "and let the nuclear family be the official God-bless civil union!"?
posted by gagglezoomer at 2:33 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


jbickers: " So, if something is sacred to somebody, then they're entitled to it and we should respect it."

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

My sense of these things has always been that people are entitled to hold their sacred beliefs. But that entitlement ends when they infringe on others. The moment they attempt to legislate their beliefs into law, that's seriously problematic. Chick-Fil-A is funding groups that are attempting to institutionalize discrimination, inequality and intolerance as law in this country. They're doing so to force their religious beliefs on the entire population.

What legal right, what moral right do Evangelical Christians have, to force their intolerant, backwards, bigoted beliefs on other people? None. If they want to fund hate groups that discriminate against people, that's their right. But I'm sorry, it's in no way a double standard to take a stand against it on principle.
posted by zarq at 2:33 PM on July 24, 2012 [31 favorites]


I am...perplexed...by the recent outrage about Chik-Fil-A and the BSA. Not unsupportive of it, mind, just perplexed. These entities have been known bigots for YEARS, and people are only just now getting upset about it?

Before, they just donated money to organizations but claimed to just hold 'personal opinions.' I guess it hits closer to home when the president expresses those opinions explicitely, rather than financially.

PERSONALLY, I'm more turned off by the money (for reasons I've already explained) and companies can verbally express their bigoted notions as long as my dollars aren't going directly to support it.
posted by muddgirl at 2:36 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


MissySedai: "Still, I can't help but wonder if the people finally getting mad about it only just got internet/information access?"

I knew nothing about the Cathy family or their companies until a few days ago. Keeping track of dominionist companies simply isn't one of my priorities. That said, I could probably count the number of times in my life that I've eaten food from a Chick Fil A on one hand. Like Kentucky Frid Chicken, they add msg to their food, which I avoid.

Shopping at Cathy-owned Hobby Lobby, on the other hand... I've done that a lot in the past and won't be doing so again. Also had no idea the same family owned that company.
posted by zarq at 2:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [6 favorites]


CFA sandwiches are too good to not have them just because the CEO expressed his thoughts.
posted by dov3 at 2:47 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I wonder if misguided people are going to call for boycotting The Muppets, which is no longer a Henson Company property?
The Jim Henson representative also noted that the company no longer has any affiliation with "The Muppets," as they were acquired by The Walt Disney Company in 2004, but does maintain ownership of the "Fraggle Rock" franchise. The "Sesame Street" characters are owned by Sesame Workshop.*
posted by ericb at 2:47 PM on July 24, 2012


That Atlantic piece is full of stupidity.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:48 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]




Why are there always posts like this?

Of course they're free to be bigoted assholes. And we're free to protest, gripe on the internet, boycott, mock them, etc.


Exactly. I said they were free to bigoted assholes. The statement that someone has the right under the law to be a jerk does not imply that one condones jerkish behavior.

If Chick-Fil-A has the right to be jerks, we certainly have the right to tell everyone else that they are, loudly and persistently.
posted by Roentgen at 2:51 PM on July 24, 2012


Before, they just donated money to organizations but claimed to just hold 'personal opinions.' I guess it hits closer to home when the president expresses those opinions explicitely, rather than financially.

That's an interesting way to look at it.

My own take on it is along the lines of "put your money where your mouth is" - if you're giving money to something, then it's something you support/agree with, so it's just as bad as spouting off.

PERSONALLY, I'm more turned off by the money (for reasons I've already explained) and companies can verbally express their bigoted notions as long as my dollars aren't going directly to support it.

I've always found the money thing abhorrent, and take care that I don't support businesses that give to causes that I find abhorrent. I can easily eat lunch at and buy craft supplies from businesses that don't support assholery, without regret.

I have fought long and hard with my husband about the BSA, because he was a Scout as a kid and wanted to cling to his "happy memories". We still fight about it, because his bestie is a Scout leader, his bestie's son is a Scout, and I WILL NOT consent to purchasing anything from their fundraisers or giving money to their causes. This causes friction, but I just can't support them.
posted by MissySedai at 2:54 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


(By which I mean, why hasn't NYU booted Chick-fil-A?)

There was a campaign going on at NYU. I (along with every other NYU undergraduate and graduate student) received the following email, entitled the "Chick-Fil-A decision" from the Chair of the Student Services Counsel at NYU on March 1, 2012:
Last year, a concerned student brought to the attention of the Student Senators Council the alleged link between the Chick-Fil-A franchise and organizations that support marriage solely between heterosexual individuals. Over the course of the fall semester, the Student Senators Council spent considerable time and effort investigating this alleged link and discussing a potential ban of Chick-Fil-A on campus.

As a general rule, the Student Senators Council believes that freedom of expression is the most important virtue of an institute devoted to education. The SSC also believes there is a fundamental difference between personal boycott and institutional prohibition. To ban any entity from campus for ideological reasons is, in most every case, to limit freedom of expression. It is because of this fact that the Council takes the weight of evidence very seriously when considering proposed bans.

After extensive deliberation, the Student Senators Council agreed that there was insufficient evidence at this time to justify a ban of Chick-Fil-A. At this point, there have been no reported acts of discrimination on the part of the restaurant chain, according to the information presented to the council and the additional research undertaken. It is for this reason that the Council voted not to support an institutional ban of Chick-Fil-A.

The Student Senators Council encourages concerned students and other community members to continue investigating the issue and further urges them to exercise their right to personally boycott any entity that offends their moral sensibilities.
Possibly things will get re-visited as a result of this business?
posted by likeatoaster at 2:56 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


First there was the Romney retroactive retirement from Bain Capital, and now Chick-Fil-A pulls a retroactive recall. Conservatives love the past so much that they've figured out a way to get there.
posted by hydrophonic at 2:56 PM on July 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


@suzysmith

i wish i could pretend to be homo :(
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 2:57 PM on July 24, 2012


I've been semi-intentionally not looking in to the background of Hobby Lobby, because it's closed on Sundays and unless it's a liquor store, that's a bad sign. I will have to start buying craft supplies at Michael's, even though it's farther away.
posted by muddgirl at 3:00 PM on July 24, 2012


I think that as long as Chick-Fil-A doesn't refuse someone service or employment based on sexual orientation, they're pretty much free to support bigoted causes.

Deciding who to sell a franchise to is as much a business transaction as selling a chicken burger or hiring a fry cook. If a potential franchisee is being discriminated against, then local, state and federal officials should be free to act within the bounds of the law to punish the franchiser, including refusing to grant a license to operate.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:01 PM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]


I said to a gay friend, "Why should you care what they do with their money? You are exchanging some cash for a tasty product. What happens after that exchange shouldn't really be a concern. Do you ask your carpenter where he's planning on spending the money you pay him to build you a deck?"

His answer was, "If there was an al-Qaeda taco stand would you buy a taco from them?"

So the moral of this story is don't tell people how you plan to spend the money they give you.
posted by cjorgensen at 3:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Hobby Lobby was founded and is still owned by a David Green, right? I mean, they're closed on Sundays and are pretty Christian-oriented, but I can't find any evidence that the Cathy's have any connection...
posted by pupdog at 3:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


There is almost always better chicken to be had at an independent restaurant/fast food place than at any franchise.

the best friend chicken I have ever tasted in my entire life is from Main Garden, in New Haven, CT - option S1- 1/2 Fried Chicken with French Fries, $4.95.

I am salivating as I think about it.
posted by jb at 3:03 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


I knew nothing about the Cathy family or their companies until a few days ago. Keeping track of dominionist companies simply isn't one of my priorities. That said, I could probably count the number of times in my life that I've eaten food from a Chick Fil A on one hand. Like Kentucky Frid Chicken, they add msg to their food, which I avoid.

Shopping at Cathy-owned Hobby Lobby, on the other hand... I've done that a lot in the past and won't be doing so again. Also had no idea the same family owned that company.


I've known about the Cathy family's bigotry for a long, long time. Way back when I was a "good Lutheran kid" (age 15), our congregation was invaded by evangelicals. One carried on at length at a Luther League meeting about how awesome CFA was, they were a Christian company who believed in Biblical principles, and wouldn't let "those homos" work there. Never set foot in one ever again.

I didn't learn about Hobby Lobby's problem until about ten years ago. I went shopping with my sister for some crafty things for Halloween. Their Halloween supplies were pretty much non-existent, and when she inquired about that, she was snottily informed that Hobby Lobby was "a family company that doesn't support Satan worship". Right about then was when I noticed the local Christian FM station being piped in. She still bought things. I did not. Hey, what do you know, Michael's is right across the street, and they manage to not get my glitter and popsicle sticks all Jesus-y!

(She still shops there, even though she's Wiccan and bitches all the time about how they don't like "people like her". Eats at CFA, too, with the same bitching. I don't get it. )
posted by MissySedai at 3:07 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Holy cow, that Atlantic article was incredibly dumb. Did anyone get through the whole thing?

First of all, Chick-fil-A is not a hate group. In a statement released yesterday, company leaders made their commitment to equal service clear, "The Chick-fil-A culture and service tradition in our restaurants is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect -- regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender."

So they can't possibly be a hate group (and I'm not suggesting they are) because their PR team released a statement that says they're not?
posted by akaJudge at 3:11 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


I don't mind that Hobby Lobby is Christian owned or has "Christian Values," or even that they donate to dominionist churches. They don't seem to donate directly to anti-gay organizations, however, they do support Harbor House which has been alleged to abuse teens under the banner of "behavior modification" (including teens which are sent there for lesbian or gay "leanings").
posted by muddgirl at 3:12 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


CFA sandwiches are too good to not have them just because the CEO expressed his thoughts.

I'm not sure whether this speaks more poorly of your taste in food or your moral compass.

It certainly doesn't speak highly of your reading comprehension - the reasons that people are outraged are only secondarily because of what the CEO said but what he did - which is to give large donations to anti-gay groups (almost $2 million) and, effectively, refuse to hire LGBT workers.

Regardless, everyone is already aware that a lot of people's desire to eat bad fast food trumps any possible moral concern.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 3:18 PM on July 24, 2012 [17 favorites]


I'm starting wonder if perhaps this is really Gonzo's doing at the behest of Camilla as one step to free her sister chickens from the horrors of mass gallicide.
posted by symbioid at 3:19 PM on July 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


Do you ask your carpenter where he's planning on spending the money you pay him to build you a deck?"

Nope. Most carpenters would tell me it's none of my business what they do with my money. But if my carpenter came right out and told me that he was planning on giving my money to some horrible cause, I'd definitely switch carpenters and warn my friends to stay away from him.
posted by pracowity at 3:19 PM on July 24, 2012 [23 favorites]


Tanizaki: "Please rename Metafilter to Chick-Fil-A Eyewitness News Team."

And Terry with Taco Bells on the Tens.
posted by boo_radley at 3:19 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Boycotts and "voting with your dollars" are not a universal solution to social ills. You vote with your votes, and that's how it should be.

That having been said, there is nothing wrong with applying a bit of personal economic pressure against a source of evil, if they happen to be vulnerable to it.
posted by JHarris at 3:23 PM on July 24, 2012


As a general rule, the Student Senators Council believes that freedom of expression is the most important virtue of an institute devoted to education. The SSC also believes there is a fundamental difference between personal boycott and institutional prohibition. To ban any entity from campus for ideological reasons is, in most every case, to limit freedom of expression. It is because of this fact that the Council takes the weight of evidence very seriously when considering proposed bans.

Ugh, how typical of college liberalism. We're so inclusive that we welcome bigots and hate mongers of all stripes. So open minded that our brains fall out.
posted by indubitable at 3:24 PM on July 24, 2012


There is almost always better chicken to be had at an independent restaurant/fast food place than at any franchise.

This may be true, but I often wonder to what extent any local restaurant owner in my area is holding the same beliefs or donating to the same ridiculous causes. I'm in the deep south and it's highly likely many independent businesses in town would be in the same boat, but they just aren't public about it. I feel sometimes it comes down to a "don't ask don't tell" kind of thing when we pick our retailers -- if it makes it to the media then we have definite cues, but otherwise I'm really just generally unsure about most everything else.
posted by bizzyb at 3:25 PM on July 24, 2012


It's also worth noting that not only did The Henson Company decide that it wasn't going to do future promotions with Chick-Fil-A, they donated the proceeds from the current contract to GLADD. That puts them near the top of my list on doing the right thing.

Just to clarify who owns what intellectual property these days since there's a ton of confusion floating around the Internet on this.

The Jim Henson Company: Most Henson productions post-Muppets including Fraggle Rock, Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, Farscape, and Mirrormask. Also The Creature Shop (JHCS) and production studios.

Sesame Workshop (formerly CTW): Sesame Street. Creature effects are still contracted to JHCS.

Disney: Bought Muppets and Bear in the Big Blue House as The Muppets Studio from The Hensons in 2004.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:25 PM on July 24, 2012 [8 favorites]


Does anyone know why this and the BSA thing suddenly blew up over the past few weeks? It's not like these organizations' homophobic practices were a secret or anything...
posted by schmod at 3:30 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


But if my carpenter came right out and told me that he was planning on giving my money to some horrible cause, I'd definitely switch carpenters and warn my friends to stay away from him.

But what if you asked him what he does with his money and that was his answer? While the Cathy's haven't exactly hidden their beliefs, the public discussion seems to have been sparked by the investigating various people have done.
posted by mullacc at 3:31 PM on July 24, 2012


I drive by a chickflila every day on the way home. I've begun throwing a bird, so to speak, out the window as I go by. Have gotten a few honks but it's not clear what that means.
posted by mikehipp at 3:37 PM on July 24, 2012


Holy cow, that Atlantic article was incredibly dumb.

I've said it before, it's hard to believe this is the same magazine that published Thoreau, Emerson, Dickinson, Twain, ...
posted by mr vino at 3:38 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Does anyone know why this and the BSA thing suddenly blew up over the past few weeks?

As far the Boy Scouts goes, they reviewed their own discriminatory policy and decided to keep it. They made this announcement on their own, so they effectively put themselves in the news.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:38 PM on July 24, 2012


The first and last time I tasted a Chick-Fil-A, more than 20 years ago in a Southern California mall, I thought... "it tastes just like a boneless version of a KFC 'center breast' (the Colonel's old method of cutting the two breasts into 3 pieces to save money - the 'center breast' didn't get any of the skin, but a big piece of bone), in a bun with a piece of pickle. And they're charging THAT MUCH for it?" It's long-term success is based on an image far in excess of the 'specialness' of the food, just like White Castle.

One question regarding the links at the very top: if the Henson Company pledges all the money they made from Chick-Fil-A to GLAAD and Chick-Fil-A is recalling Henson toys, are they going to end up charging back Henson for 'unsold' units, maybe as an assholish way to penalize them or their charity monetarily?
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:40 PM on July 24, 2012


schmod: In both cases, it's due to people going on the record in media statements. Cathy discussed Chick-Fil-A's decision in a recent interview, and the BSA National Board made a public announcement on the 17th regarding a petition to change their policy.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:40 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


[The BSA] made this announcement on their own, so they effectively put themselves in the news.

They must be employing the same dumbass PR firm as the Paterno family.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


As far the Boy Scouts goes, they reviewed their own discriminatory policy and decided to keep it. They made this announcement on their own, so they effectively put themselves in the news.

They appear to have had other motivations.
posted by MissySedai at 3:41 PM on July 24, 2012


There's no information on when the notice was allegedly put up, but the 'recall' is backdated to one day before the Jim Henson Company cut ties with Chick-Fil-A for its donations to anti-gay groups

I don't get it - the bible is actually fuzzy on the whole gay marriage thing; but it's crystal clear on lying. Hell, not lying is a friggen commandment.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:43 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Jennifer Tyrrell, ousted Den Mother and a lesbian, will be presenting the petition to the BSA today at it’s Texas headquarters.

Thank god they booted her before she turned all those thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent boys into lesbians.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [18 favorites]


Has it not yet sunk in with these people that being a homophobe is the best way to declare to the world that you're a closeted homosexual? Or is this just their roundabout way of coming out?
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 3:50 PM on July 24, 2012


But what if you asked him what he does with his money and that was his answer?

If I give money to an asshole who I know uses his spare money to do bad things, I am actively joining him in doing those bad things myself by knowingly enabling him to donate even more money to those bad things.
posted by pracowity at 3:52 PM on July 24, 2012 [10 favorites]


Please look foward to my latest feature film I Hate Huckabee
posted by The Whelk at 3:56 PM on July 24, 2012 [7 favorites]


They appear to have had other motivations.

Whatever other motivations, these organizations willingly keep shooting themselves in the feet on camera all on their lonesome ownsomes. It seems protestors are now just among the many spectators, at this point.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:59 PM on July 24, 2012


SHUT YOUR LIBERAL MOUTHS AND BUY OUR PRODUCTS, CONSUMER CITIZENS! OUR CHICKEN IS TASTY AND OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE IS ABOVE REPROACH! and don't forget to fast every sunday

You know one thing that is really irking the hell out of me? The same conservatives who are throwing a fit because people are boycotting CFA are the ones who were burning Dixie Chicks CDs and demanding that no radio stations play their music. How the hell is that any different?
posted by SuzySmith at 4:04 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


CFA sandwiches are too good to not have them just because the CEO expressed his thoughts.

Perhaps. But neither are they so good that they are worth giving even a few cents to a bunch of socially-retrograde gay-bashing Dominionists.

This is not a matter of a CEO "express[ing] his thoughts," which would have been the case if he'd just been clearly speaking for himself and was the case in the past; it's an outright admission that the company has a hateful stance on an important issue. Coupled with evidence that they funnel profits to organizations that try to codify their hate into law, it's pretty clear that buying their products is materially supporting, in an admittedly small way, some pretty nasty stuff.

Mass produced fried chicken patties on a bun aren't worth it.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:07 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


But what if you asked him what he does with his money and that was his answer?

If I give money to an asshole who I know uses his spare money to do bad things, I am actively joining him in doing those bad things myself by knowingly enabling him to donate even more money to those bad things.


So as long as you don't ask it's okay?
posted by mullacc at 4:16 PM on July 24, 2012


I totally understand hating on Chick-Fil-A because of their owner's opposition to gay marriage.

I can't understand at all hating on Chick-Fil-A because they close on Sunday. I wish more businesses provided a guaranteed stable day off for their employees on the weekend. Not being able to count on a regular schedule is one of the really crappy parts of most service jobs.
posted by straight at 4:17 PM on July 24, 2012 [9 favorites]


I can't understand at all hating on Chick-Fil-A because they close on Sunday.

Who's doing that?
posted by MissySedai at 4:19 PM on July 24, 2012


How the hell is that any different?

Because, um, Jesus. Also: liberals! Gay agenda! Obamabirthcertificatedeathpanel!

There's no intellectual consistency when you get that far into the weirdo right, and the amount of consistency decreases as a result of the Evangelical reality-distortion field the closer you get to anything that's remotely a religious issue (which virtually everything is, or can be if the situation demands it).

There is a vestige of a thoughtful, intellectual conservative tradition in the US, but that's literally nowhere near the Chick-fil-a / gay-hating / "culture war" folks. This is driven by lizard-brain stuff: it's hate and fear and sex and the bloodlust you get when your team is winning or losing versus those other guys, the enemy. There's about as much intellectual consistency and desire for honest discourse in the Dominionist right as there is in the crowd at a bear baiting ring.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:19 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


There surely are people who disapprove of gays because religion leads them to that conclusion.

But for every one of those people, there are five who hate gays first, and then construct a religious justification for it.
posted by tyllwin at 4:22 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


emjaybee: " Related."
Chick Fil A, Carl's Jr.,White Castle, Domino's Pizza, Waffle House.


That article says Domino's is right-wing because it's owned by Tom Monaghan, anti-choice zealot. But he sold the company in 1998 and hasn't been directly involved with the company since.
Mind you, he sold it to Bain Capital, so keep on boycotting their terrible pizza because Mitt Romney, but best to have one's facts straight.
posted by gingerest at 4:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


You can boycott it cause it sucks that is also an option.
posted by The Whelk at 4:45 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


...I often wonder to what extent any local restaurant owner in my area is holding the same beliefs or donating to the same ridiculous causes. I'm in the deep south and it's highly likely many independent businesses in town would be in the same boat, but they just aren't public about it.

In particular, there seems to be a correlation, in the South, between the racism of the business owner and the quality of their BBQ.

Now if you're pretty sure the racist proprietor in question is also too damn selfish to donate to ANYbody, is it still okay to enjoy their BBQ?
posted by LordSludge at 4:51 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mind you, he sold it to Bain Capital, so keep on boycotting their terrible pizza because Mitt Romney, but best to have one's facts straight.

...and I just learned the Bain holds a large stake in Michael's craft stores. Ew. Well, there's still JoAnn, and Crafts 2000.

As far as Domino's goes, I worked for them in college, while Monaghan was still at the helm, and he was a LOT quieter about his nuttery back then.
posted by MissySedai at 4:52 PM on July 24, 2012


So as long as you don't ask it's okay?

Yes, mullacc, so long as you don't ask it's okay.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:01 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


@lupus_yonderboy, it is not a matter of reading comprehension. CFA could give their money to anyone they want as long as that money is not used to kill or legitimately harm other people. Also, if they want to give money to anti-gay groups, well I guess they are wasting their money because the gay agenda is already gaining position in this country. I doubt it could be reversed.
Also, I have never been fond of chicken sandwiches until I ate a CFA.
posted by dov3 at 5:07 PM on July 24, 2012


...and I just learned the Bain holds a large stake in Michael's craft stores. Ew. Well, there's still JoAnn, and Crafts 2000

And Hobby Lobby. But its... closed... on Sunday.

I'm boycotting popsicle stick sculpture.
posted by hal9k at 5:14 PM on July 24, 2012


It's a shame; I've been a sucker for their waffle fries since the mid-nineties when most lunches consisted of a chicken sandwich, waffle fries and sweet tea, along with the mandatory slice of chocolate chip cookie from the Great American Cookie Company.

I hate biotry more than I love waffle fries, though.
posted by Mooski at 5:14 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


... well I guess they are wasting their money because the gay agenda is already gaining position in this country.

Hmm, a non-ironic use of the phrase "gay agenda". I didn't expect to see that today.
posted by benito.strauss at 5:20 PM on July 24, 2012 [10 favorites]


I've lived in states with Blue Laws and it sucks.

I'm glad to see the Muppets take a stand against this. I learned about sharing from the Muppets, and how to count (in Spanish, even!), and what a brownstone was (New York was terribly exotic to a kid growing up in Hawaii). Chik-Fil-A has only taught me that they think I shouldn't have the same rights as straight people, which is a shitty lesson.
posted by rtha at 5:25 PM on July 24, 2012 [12 favorites]


it is not a matter of reading comprehension. CFA could give their money to anyone they want as long as that money is not used to kill or legitimately harm other people.

You're right, it's not reading comprehension that's the problem here. If you think that denying gay people basic human rights isn't legitimately harming them, then the problem is that you are a bigot.
posted by elizardbits at 5:34 PM on July 24, 2012 [16 favorites]


Here's a Forbes article about them that's pretty interesting...

There's a new craft-type store here in So Cal that's also closed on Sundays. We didn't know so we stopped by to check them out, and in the 5 minutes we were there (checking the web for another craft store) ~15 people came and tried to open the door. Closing on Sunday seems like an insane business practice.
posted by Huck500 at 5:40 PM on July 24, 2012


El Sabor Asiatico: "Has it not yet sunk in with these people that being a homophobe is the best way to declare to the world that you're a closeted homosexual? Or is this just their roundabout way of coming out?"

This way of thinking is problematic. It tacitly agrees that being homosexual is a bad thing. You may not think that way but you're basically saying, " If he openly hates faggots that means hes a faggot! Ha ha!"
posted by Splunge at 5:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


And it seems very un-Christian to lie about Muppet toys...
posted by Huck500 at 5:41 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


1- The southern style chicken sandwich at McD's is close enough for government work. Agreed. A Chick-Fil-A opened in Schaumburg, IL, and I tried it. I like the little ketchup bottle/packet things, but the rest was blah. I did not appreciate being aggressively greeted and hounded for my order. Would you let me look at the fucking menu for a goddamned minute?! The sandwich was WAY too fucking salty (and I love salt), the fries were not well enough done, and the Chick-Fil-A "special sauce" is just thousand island+mayo+peanut butter. Also, Jesus wants you to clean your bathrooms better.

2- The pile-on snark and jokiness turns me off a little. This is a serious thing, and the "Chick-Fil-Gay" and kiss-ins for Gay Jesus is not constructive. All that does is reinforce their hateful beliefs. Don't mock them; show them why they are wrong. Being childish isn't going to do that.
posted by gjc at 5:47 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


Closing on Sunday seems like an insane business practice.
Indeed. I love that they do it, though -- I know the suckiness of having a low-wage job and not having any of my weekend free.

Dan Cathy has said that they make more profit per restaurant, on average, in their 6-day work week than McDonalds makes per restaurant in a 7-day work week. If that's true, they must not be hurting too badly.
posted by BurntHombre at 5:48 PM on July 24, 2012


There's a new craft-type store here in So Cal that's also closed on Sundays. We didn't know so we stopped by to check them out, and in the 5 minutes we were there (checking the web for another craft store) ~15 people came and tried to open the door. Closing on Sunday seems like an insane business practice.

God help me, but the cynic in me wonders if they don't do this so they can say to themselves "hey look, we gave up 1/7 of our business for God" and not feel quite so obligated to donate their tithe to their church.

Dan Cathy has said that they make more profit per restaurant, on average, in their 6-day work week than McDonalds makes per restaurant in a 7-day work week. If that's true, they must not be hurting too badly.

Seems like that means they are charging too much. But it also probably means they are paying cheap wages. It's hard to be profitable, and it's really hard to beat McDonald's. And McDonald's teaches whole classes on how to be more profitable, right down to turning equipment on at the last possible second, to save energy costs. I would guess they are playing "we're just a poor christian company" to their employees when they come asking for $$$. Every raise you don't give is profit. Making the employees accept it because they are Christians is terrible. If that's what they are doing.
posted by gjc at 5:55 PM on July 24, 2012


And all the while, In-n-Out continues to quietly print Bible verses on their packaging while paying their employees above minimum wage and donating profits to child abuse prevention charities. All hail our future Animal Style overlords.
posted by book 'em dano at 6:06 PM on July 24, 2012 [14 favorites]


This way of thinking is problematic. It tacitly agrees that being homosexual is a bad thing. You may not think that way but you're basically saying, " If he openly hates faggots that means hes a faggot! Ha ha!"

No it doesn't. It says, "here is this thing you say you hate. You are revealing yourself to be that thing." It's self-condemnation for the bigots, not an agreement about what should be condemned.
posted by OmieWise at 6:07 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


I personally don't have an issue with a business being closed on Sunday if that reflects the beliefs of the owner. The local consignment stores seem to all be closed on Mondays. Our health food store is closed on Saturdays. The main difference here is the religious belief, but even as someone without much of a belief system I'm fine with a business choosing not to open and make money on a certain day or at a certain time.

Moving beyond that to single out specific people that you will/won't hire, serve, or approve of is in a different category for me.
posted by bizzyb at 6:13 PM on July 24, 2012


people should stock up on dildos and toss one in the restaurant's general direction whenever they drive by. that would be a good protest. (also leave dildos lying around in the booths, bathrooms, etc)
posted by camdan at 6:22 PM on July 24, 2012


Seems like that means they are charging too much. But it also probably means they are paying cheap wages. It's hard to be profitable, and it's really hard to beat McDonald's. And McDonald's teaches whole classes on how to be more profitable, right down to turning equipment on at the last possible second, to save energy costs. I would guess they are playing "we're just a poor christian company" to their employees when they come asking for $$$. Every raise you don't give is profit. Making the employees accept it because they are Christians is terrible. If that's what they are doing.

Well that was a flight of fancy support by very little other than "here are some stereotypes I have about Christians." It might well be that they don't pay good wages, most fast food places don't, but you're making an awful lot of assumptions based on nothing.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:27 PM on July 24, 2012


Rarely have I been so grateful to keep kosher. They can't offend me with their homophobia or their xian Dominion supercessionist nonsense. I occasionally miss Gino's burgers, tho (Philly shout-out, yeah).
posted by Dreidl at 6:36 PM on July 24, 2012 [3 favorites]


Closing on Sunday seems like an insane business practice.

There is a family-owned hardware store 5 minutes from my house. We try to give them our business whenever possible. Unfortunately they are closed on Sundays. I don't know how they stay in business because 10 minutes down the road is both a Home Depot and a Lowes. They are far, far cheaper AND they are open on Sunday. If we run out of nails on Sunday we can either stop work or we can go to Home Depot. We usually go to Home Depot.

Also my favorite nursery is closed on Sundays. Do you know how much business they must lose? Again, I don't know how they stay in business because people garden on the weekends. And if they can't get their mulch or their pansies from Logans there are plenty of other nurseries in the area to choose from.

Can you tell I live in the South? My husband tells me that more businesses used to be closed-- there were blue laws in force during his childhood. Most places have accepted that people need to shop and eat out on the weekends. You still can't buy liquor on Sundays, though.

Chic-fil-A ? Yep, got them all over including one right next to my gym and one right next to my grocery store. But I haven't eaten fast food in many years, so a boycott is only theoretical on my part.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:41 PM on July 24, 2012


I spent several years in Texas and never made it to Chick-fil-a, but I sure spent a lot of money in Hobby Lobby. :(
posted by deborah at 6:50 PM on July 24, 2012


So, many people on the internet seem to think this is a fake, especially with the idea of puppet sodomy being a little too on the nose.

I think it's plausible either way, but I am curious of the metapinion.
posted by flaterik at 7:01 PM on July 24, 2012


I really need to check out Dinosaur Train one of these days.

Eh..it's Muppet-looking, but so frightfully earnest and cheesy and intent on stuffing little brains with facts that there is no conflict, therefore no plot, or stories, to speak of. It's a decent show, but it's really for kids only in a way that many other Henson properties weren't. You would think you couldn't make time-traveling dinosaurs boring, but you'd be wrong. Though it is funnier to watch all the ways they get around "dinosaurs meet other dinosaurs who would normally eat them and don't get eaten."


It's currently streaming on Netflix, and my kid has developed an unfortunate fondness for it. It is really, really boring and I say that as someone who suffered through years of Thomas the Tank Engine.

However, it is awesome for one reason: in the obligatory Winter Holiday Episode that all kids shows have, the dinosaurs celebrate Winter Solstice. I haven't seen that in any other kid-oriented pop culture, ever. We celebrate Winter Solstice as our big winter holiday, and we're always left out of the Christmas/Chanuka/Kwanzaa "Aren't we so inclusive even though we all know that Christmas is the REAL holiday" shows.
posted by Daily Alice at 7:15 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


And Hobby Lobby. But its... closed... on Sunday.

No, Hobby Lobby isn't an option for me, because they support Dominionist causes, and that shit does not fly with me.


And all the while, In-n-Out continues to quietly print Bible verses on their packaging while paying their employees above minimum wage and donating profits to child abuse prevention charities. All hail our future Animal Style overlords.

They don't seem to be on the bigotry bandwagon, either. I'd happily patronize them if they were in my area. From everything I've read, they're too busy acting like actual Christians - doing good works, trying to care for their fellow man, giving to those less fortunate and in need of protection - to act like assholes who merely claim the name.

It's not CFA's Christianity I object to, it's their open support of bigotry.
posted by MissySedai at 7:19 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


I have to ask: by citing presumably BS safety concerns, is Chick-fil-A opening themselves up to a legal beatdown?
posted by Decimask at 7:38 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Chik-fil-a has confirmed to Gawker that they issued the voluntary recall on July 19th.
posted by ltracey at 8:13 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


i'd like to add, what's with the christian right's obsession over "the nation" offending god? what's wrong with just practice your religious beliefs without using the government to force others to, i say.
posted by camdan at 8:13 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


OmieWise: "This way of thinking is problematic. It tacitly agrees that being homosexual is a bad thing. You may not think that way but you're basically saying, " If he openly hates faggots that means hes a faggot! Ha ha!"

No it doesn't. It says, "here is this thing you say you hate. You are revealing yourself to be that thing." It's self-condemnation for the bigots, not an agreement about what should be condemned.
"

I think there is room for us to agree to disagree here.
posted by Splunge at 8:25 PM on July 24, 2012


You vote with your votes, and that's how it should be.

And them thar votes may not be counted[1] or your vote isn't actually for who you are voting for, but instead empowers some party operative to cast a vote.[2]

[1] See black box voting
[2] See the presidential selection process both at the party and national level.
posted by rough ashlar at 8:26 PM on July 24, 2012


So this is nearly like that Rand Paul "hypothetically restaurants should be tot-s allowed to be racist, sexist or homophobic... cus... that shift won't fry with modern customers, and we don't need a government, just good citizens who will boycott bad service-outlets- now please elect me", cool, weird, vile to see a variation on the theme "play out" in slow motion a year later.

So, the atlantic says this " From a business standpoint, some might say Cathy's comments were imprudent if not downright dumb. But in a society that desperately needs healthy public dialogue, we must resist creating a culture where consumers sort through all their purchases (fast food and otherwise) for an underlying politics not even expressed in the nature of the product itself."

Which is utter nonsense. The argument appears to be a variation on the theme of "just go back to being good-thoughtless, inconsiderate consumers again already!". The "product itself" doesn't matter (unless it was, say, an anti-gay bumper-sticker, name some other products or services where "the product itself" would be objectionable, hard to think of, right, and really, product policing by choice is a separate issue from the massive money-pool owner using a money pool to effect the actual, immanent, lived lives of humans today, rather than some vague (possibly valid) idea of "using choice to push companies to offer better products", the situation is that if masses of people are buying something because it is "tasty"... and significantly large fractions of the money-pool generated by said business operations goes directly towards attacking humans who are co-citizens... then buying their goods actually, literally, materially, ethically, and "emotively" are "expressed" by the act of enriching, and giving patronage and revenue to a company that expresses, promotes, and uses a voice more powerful than any single human, shouting forth, advertising a "tasty" belief in fundamental human inequality, is a net-negative. Shesh, the Atlantic... the medium is the message. Buy chicken via the medium of Chick-fill-a, and you are buying, funding, and tacitly promoting a very clear, very specific message.

I saw that name in text a while back, and thought it was likely some closet-bigot hipster indie artist... "chick-fill-a"... cus... that is a really foolish name for a restaurant. But there it is.

This is a serious thing, and the "Chick-Fil-Gay" and kiss-ins for Gay Jesus is not constructive. All that does is reinforce their hateful beliefs. Don't mock them; show them why they are wrong. Being childish isn't going to do that.

You cannot logically "reinforce" a fundamentally invalid position. Otherwise one could equally say that tornadoes "reinforce" hateful bigotry, because tornadoes are seen as "signs" that people needed to be punished or some nonsense... Tiptoeing around illogical irrational, self-reinforcing hateful bigots? A waste of time.

No gay person, no matter how 'flamboyant', 'out', 'public', or "obviously gay", is ever "responsible" when there is a feedback-loop of "reinforced" hate within the hateful beliefs espoused by fools fill-a'ed with hate, those pathetic, yesterday-chasing wretches captaining this little ship, which will soon unravel, and undoubtedly shrivel up yesterdays "political", "popular" food selling hole in a wall... A world where people have to live in little boxes because it might "reinforce the HATE in some hateful hate-breed"... to that world, I say whatever, live you life as if you matter, not according to the most hateful voices around you.

People ought not have to hide their ethnicity so as to not "enrage" the KKK or their BFF's in hate (wait, people still do, because that arena is still filled with public bigots too)... why (why should anyone be scared of public love, when so many are made immune to pervasive public hate)? Because 'we' don't bow to racist hate... we counter it with continued PUBLIC kisses, and hugs, hand-holding and public discourse, sit in's, protests, debates, fights, and a hundred other forms of human interaction, but never successfully by just cowering or following along beside those fueled by a belly of hate, the "progressive" arc of civility involves bringing people who were shunned, and pushed aside to the margins, to the outside of the main spaces of change, to bring them right back into the agora, back into our common, shared spaces, our shared world (so that we can all, communally, face down the terror of hungry Roman lions of larger trouble -- ultimately, side by side with Christians).

We eradicate it by demonstrating publicly how entirely normal the targets of hate are, and how vile, pathetic, underhanded, and ultimately weak the hateful truly are.

People kissing their consensual partners is not childish. People kissing their consensual partners at a kiss in to protest against a massive money pool that is using their massive money pool to drown civil rights, "pathologizing" those kisses... calling them "sick"... that is the truly sick form of thinking, can we no allow ourselves to bow to those who oppose equal rights, and denigrate millions of humans, and, by political influence infinitely disproportionate to the validity of their ideas, relegate those millions to second class status (and LGBT folks are today, by force of Law and State, relegated to second class status), with a sub-set of the rights that all other humans in the country happen to have as "natural"; rather than separate and un-equal "accommodation".

People should just do what they want, really. Equally under the Rule of Law.
posted by infinite intimation at 8:29 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


Equally under the Rule of Law.

Say - how does THAT idea work out?
posted by rough ashlar at 8:36 PM on July 24, 2012


"CFA sandwiches are too good to not have them just because ..."

... I honestly think this attitude revolts me more than Cathy's does.
posted by kyrademon at 8:54 PM on July 24, 2012 [4 favorites]


And it seems very un-Christian to lie about Muppet toys...

Christian hatred of gay people is predicated on lies. As far as this goes, this is just one more lie to throw onto their pile of lies.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:57 PM on July 24, 2012 [2 favorites]


Nope. Most carpenters would tell me it's none of my business what they do with my money. But if my carpenter came right out and told me that he was planning on giving my money to some horrible cause, I'd definitely switch carpenters and warn my friends to stay away from him.

...And that Carpenter... he was said to have said things such as this;
And he said unto them, In what place soever ye enter into an house, there abide till ye depart from that place (IOW:Stand By Ur Man).

And then, this tasty, on-topic, and relevant (oft overlooked) nugget;

And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.

Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


IOW, Jesus was reportedly having none of it, in terms of Chick-Fil-A's self-aggrandizing, me, me, me, boastful, incredibly pathetic and overtly prideful failed "faith" (their vile faith in their own prideful 'power' [do they have a handy golden bull to ride in their Kid-play-places too?]). Just Saying.
posted by infinite intimation at 9:15 PM on July 24, 2012 [5 favorites]


(Mark 6:10-11)
posted by infinite intimation at 9:15 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Chik-fil-a has confirmed to Gawker that they issued the voluntary recall on July 19th.

Chick-fil-A is *claiming* to Gawker that it issued the recall on July 19th. I don't think there are many folks who believe that's true.
posted by mediareport at 9:18 PM on July 24, 2012


Which is really all just to say, BP has the bulls-eye, game-over, you lose, vile-bigots, in this point; Christian hatred of gay people is predicated on lies.
posted by infinite intimation at 9:18 PM on July 24, 2012


Ummm, why are we talking about how stupid Chick Fil-A is instead of how AWESOME the Muppets are for telling them to go fuck themselves??
posted by dry white toast at 9:22 PM on July 24, 2012 [18 favorites]


But in a society that desperately needs healthy public dialogue, we must resist creating a culture where consumers sort through all their purchases (fast food and otherwise) for an underlying politics not even expressed in the nature of the product itself."

Since when? It's likely that boycots go back to the Roman Era, and one effect of religious dietary laws traditionally was to keep the economics within the community. Boycots were a form of activism that led to the American Revolution. Ida B. Wells suggested that if blacks can't get a fair deal from whites, they should support each other or move to territories where they could.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:51 PM on July 24, 2012 [1 favorite]


Companies certainly game their relationships with consumers through sponsorship and endorsement of politics, including LGBT-friendly companies.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:58 PM on July 24, 2012


So as long as you don't ask it's okay?

That's not how things work because that would be an unworkable system. If all customers asked before purchasing, customers would be standing in line all day inspecting official statements from businesses, or running home to do research online before returning to purchase, and businesses would just be handing out bullshit PR that bragged about token good practices and hid questionable practices, so most questions wouldn't get the right answers anyway.

Instead, you remain a part of a community of good people who keep an eye out for evil business practices and publicize them when discovered. You depend on journalists and various organizations to expertly dig up and publicize bad dealings in the corporate world.

So it is not a matter of whether you ask. It's a matter of whether you keep your ears open. It's okay if you keep up with the news and you don't hear anything bad about a business you are dealing with. It's a bit pathetic but a typical sin of omission if you don't keep up with the news and have no idea which businesses in your town are good and which are bad. It's not okay at all if you do hear something sufficiently bad about the business and yet continue to be a customer just because you think their sandwiches are delicious.
posted by pracowity at 12:02 AM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


From reddit: Chick-fil-A damage control FAIL
posted by futz at 3:08 AM on July 25, 2012 [10 favorites]


Chick-fil-A damage control FAIL

I don't know if using sockpuppets on Facebook is Christian, but it's definitely dishonest.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:25 AM on July 25, 2012


Recently the owner of the fast food chain Chick-fil-A answered accusations of being anti-gay and putting millions of profits into anti-gay lobbying with "guilty as charged". This ignited a storm of controversy as though this fact had not previously been well known and documented. Folks on the Left called for boycotts while folks on the Right were appalled that, in a Capitalistic society, people would use their buying power to protest actions of a company that they disagreed with. (For the right -- which regularly calls for boycotts against gay-friendly companies -- "free speech" only applies to them and also includes freedom from responsibility for that speech.) Now, for me personally, this is a no-brainer: there aren't any Chick-fil-A stores in my half of this godless Socialist state, so I don't even have to worry about it. But there are people who are really troubled about this because here's the thing: their chicken sandwiches are so tasty! What can be done, short of eating a chicken sandwich somewhere else? (But...but...so tasty!) What I propose is, if you simply must have a Chick-fil-A sandwich, do so, but first take a photo of it and email that photo to a gay friend or relative, or just GLAAD if you don't have one handy, saying, "I am sorry, but I like this chicken sandwich more than I like you." Just let them know that their right to be treated as equal human beings had to be (temporarily, for sure) put aside so you could enjoy a delicious sandwich.
From a post on my blog.
posted by Legomancer at 4:52 AM on July 25, 2012 [4 favorites]


Christian hatred of gay people is predicated on lies. As far as this goes, this is just one more lie to throw onto their pile of lies.

I suspect that the hatred is based on cultural othering, fear, puritanism and perhaps a certain amount of distaste. The structure they build around that, the lies, justifications, proselytization against the GBLT community, etc., seem to be more a result of all that than the driving force.
posted by zarq at 5:06 AM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


I'm pretty sure the CFA sock puppet doesn't actually work for CFA. It's probably just a fan, right?
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 5:20 AM on July 25, 2012


(She still shops there, even though she's Wiccan and bitches all the time about how they don't like "people like her". )

I've heard many pagans doing the same. I stopped shopping at Hobby Lobby, but pretty much everything I ever bought from them went into making offerings or talismans. The last time I went there, I picked up statues of the Egyptian gods Geb and Ma'at. Mmmm, tasty irony.
posted by Foosnark at 5:36 AM on July 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


On the other hand, perhaps you're right, Blazecock. They're being fed a steady diet of lies. It's perfectly possible that many of them believe them uncritically.
posted by zarq at 5:37 AM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Chick-fil-A damage control FAIL.

So "bearing false witness" is cool with Jesus? Good to know.
posted by ericb at 9:35 AM on July 25, 2012


Following each of his two sons' births did did Dan Cathy force his wife Rhonda to bring a lamb less than a year old and a pigeon or dove (or two turtles or two young pigeons, if a lamb is not available) to their church to be sacrificed and burned to purify her of the uncleanliness of giving birth? No? No animal sacrifices for the Cathys? Looks like someone doesn't support traditional Biblical family values.
posted by Rhomboid at 11:30 AM on July 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


What are the anti-gay groups they donated money to? I see a list but the only name I recognise is Exodus International, which got a whopping $1,000. Wikipedia helped with one group, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, but it doesn't say much other than that they support "muscular Christianity". (*)

(*) I'm pretty sure it isn't, but "muscular Christianity" gives me a mental image of well-muscled youths clad in steam rooms, toweling themselves off and giving each other meaningful looks while saying things like "what do you think of St Paul's third edict to the Colossians, brother?"
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:36 AM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Here are lists of anti-gay donations made by Chick-Fil-A's charitable organization, Winshape Foundation: 2010 and 2009.
posted by ericb at 12:34 PM on July 25, 2012


From reddit: Chick-fil-A damage control FAIL

Here is the Shutterstock image.
posted by Daddy-O at 12:44 PM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]




Boston Mayor Menino's letter to Chick-Fil-A.
posted by ericb at 1:04 PM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Chick-fil-A damage control FAIL.

So "bearing false witness" is cool with Jesus? Good to know.


So to be clear, they've already Lied and Bore False Witness. I sure hope they paid for that stock art for their sockpuppet, and didn't just reuse it from the internet. 'Cause that would add Stealing to the list of broken commandments.
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 1:27 PM on July 25, 2012


The Facebook sockpuppet is most likely a hoax.
posted by Ardiril at 1:31 PM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


Here's a bit more on the "real teen girl defends C-A-F on Facebook failure. So someone's attempt to diffuse the situation was by having a fake teen say "her friends" didn't see the muppet puppets in a store 3 weeks ago?

And if it was a hoax, would it be an attempt to show how clueless C-A-F is? That's a lot of work to awkwardly discredit a company that is already without much social credit to its name. Either way, it's a silly side-story that will fade quickly. Unless it gets picked up by major news, then it'll be drummed up into a larger non-story.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:39 PM on July 25, 2012


Making up a fake facebook account is hardly any work at all.
posted by Ardiril at 1:45 PM on July 25, 2012




There is a family-owned hardware store 5 minutes from my house. We try to give them our business whenever possible. Unfortunately they are closed on Sundays. I don't know how they stay in business because 10 minutes down the road is both a Home Depot and a Lowes. They are far, far cheaper AND they are open on Sunday. If we run out of nails on Sunday we can either stop work or we can go to Home Depot. We usually go to Home Depot.

If I ran a family store of any kind, I would definitely pick a different day off than the weekend, because the weekend is when most other people are off work and able to shop. I'd probably take Tuesday off, because fuck Tuesdays. No one wants to do anything on a Tuesday.
posted by FatherDagon at 2:41 PM on July 25, 2012 [3 favorites]


Oh, and pointing out that virulent homophobes are much more likely to be gay (see here) isn't using the concept of 'gay' as a pejorative - it's decrying a state of disgusted self-hatred so intense that one is willing to destroy the fabric of society in order to cover for one's own percieved failings. This state of intense shame and self-loathing is what's being pointed out as a failing.
posted by FatherDagon at 2:47 PM on July 25, 2012 [2 favorites]


Tell Chick-Fil-A to "Cluck Off".
posted by ericb at 3:36 PM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]




The name Chick-Fil-A (chick-filler?) invokes an image of a nozzle being forced into customer's faces and then the pump you full of chicken slurry made from the gunk scrapped off the cutting wheels where they cut chickens into parts. (worked for a day in such a place once).

It's just filler. Chicken-flavored recycled offal.
posted by Goofyy at 10:24 PM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


I like your theory, Goofyy, but no. It's pronounced chick-fill-lay, rather than chick-filler. It's supposed to bring to mind "chick(en) filet", pronounced Frenchishly. And their sandwiches are made with chicken breast fillets and the nuggets and strips of chicken breast tenderloins, not mechanically separated meat ("white slime"). (Ingredients lists for fast food restaurants are closely regulated in the US. The actual ingredients themselves, not so much, hence the existence of white slime, but if you say it's breast fillet on the ingredients, it had better be.)
posted by gingerest at 11:04 PM on July 25, 2012 [1 favorite]


gingerest is right, before this all happened I went to Chic-Fil-A semi-often, and can vouch for the quality of their sandwiches. But that's not enough to overcome the bad taste this leaves in my mouth.
posted by JHarris at 3:19 AM on July 26, 2012


Huckabee talks with Brian Brown of the National Organization for Marriage about the "activist gay community" and its "economic bullying" and "vicious hate speech" toward the company and the Cathy family:
Chick-fil-a just wants to sell chicken; they don't really get into politics all that much, but now they've been drug into it by these groups that want to destroy their business.
I call fowl.
posted by argonauta at 5:32 AM on July 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


They've been drug into it?! I don't know why the religious right is so tolerant of ignorance they actively flash it as a badge of honor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:41 AM on July 26, 2012 [3 favorites]


Rahm Emanuel’s dangerous free speech attack.

Menino and Emmanuel would do well to stand by and let Chick-Fil-A hoist themselves on their own petard of ignorance bigotry instead of engaging in this obvious attempt to use the power of government to punish Dan Cathy for his homophobia. It's not like the chain is selling Traditional Family Value Meals or refusing to serve gay couples -- not yet, anyway.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:43 AM on July 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Why is it acceptable to discriminate against franchisees, but not customers?
(Hint: It's really not.)
posted by muddgirl at 9:48 AM on July 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Sure, but I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that they're doing that -- just some vague references to an interview process and an insinuation that they could use that interview process to deny franchises to gays. Did I miss someone closing the loop on that up-thread somewhere?

Look, I hold no brief for Chick-Fil-A, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were discriminating, but if they are, the correct remedy is to bring a discrimination lawsuit against them, not to keep them from opening restaurants based on what the CEO says.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:59 AM on July 26, 2012






Why is it acceptable to discriminate against franchisees, but not customers?
(Hint: It's really not.)


I fail to see how you can compare A) individual consumer decisions typically limited to a single household, B) corporate policy of a for-profit business that operates in multiple states, and/or C) land-use policy by municipalities.

C) is often a contentious and political process where corporate policy gets pulled in. In my hometown where I was more in-touch with this sort of thing, I've seen debates regarding McDonalds in the pedestrian-tourist district (approved, but later converted to another business), Wallmart's competitive policies (approved), Hooters in the pedestrian-tourist district (denied), and a rather ugly spat with a local business over parking (ugly and nasty politics with multiple small businesses on street level in the crossfire.)

I'm a bit undecided on land-use politics that go beyond the pragmatic quid pro quo of taxes for city services. But I don't think it can be compared to discrimination against customers.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:22 AM on July 26, 2012


Why is it acceptable to discriminate against franchisees, but not customers?
(Hint: It's really not.)
----
I fail to see how you can compare A) individual consumer decisions typically limited to a single household, B) corporate policy of a for-profit business that operates in multiple states, and/or C) land-use policy by municipalities.


That was 'franchisees', not 'franchises' - talking about how some folks are saying 'they aren't actively turning away gay customers, so it's not so bad' vs the documented evidence that they are actively bigoted in their hiring and employment practices.
posted by FatherDagon at 10:42 AM on July 26, 2012


Sure, but I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that they're doing that -- just some vague references to an interview process and an insinuation that they could use that interview process to deny franchises to gays. Did I miss someone closing the loop on that up-thread somewhere?

They've explicitely said that they preferentially franchise to married couples, which is discrimination based on marital status (sometimes a protected class, sometimes not), which is often used as a dodge to cover discrimination against gay people, since gay people can't get married.
posted by muddgirl at 10:57 AM on July 26, 2012


...in general, although a small minority of states allow gay marriage.
posted by muddgirl at 10:57 AM on July 26, 2012


Ahh, my mistake.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:33 AM on July 26, 2012


muddgirl: " They've explicitely said that they preferentially franchise to married couples, which is discrimination based on marital status (sometimes a protected class, sometimes not), which is often used as a dodge to cover discrimination against gay people, since gay people can't get married."

OK, then let a thousand lawsuits bloom, but please to be keeping mayors and zoning boards out of the policing what people say.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:38 AM on July 26, 2012


Don't mayors and zoning boards also have free speech rights? Or is that only reserved for bigots?
posted by muddgirl at 11:43 AM on July 26, 2012


muddgirl: "Don't mayors and zoning boards also have free speech rights? Or is that only reserved for bigots?"

Let Merino and Emmanuel say whatever they want, but when they're explicitly or implicitly threatening to block C-F-A's expansion, that's a bridge too far. At least per the link above, Merino has come to his senses on this.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:49 AM on July 26, 2012


God forbid we verbally threaten the expansion of commerce!
posted by muddgirl at 11:53 AM on July 26, 2012


muddgirl: "God forbid we verbally threaten the expansion of commerce!"

This time it's pro-equality mayors trying to stop a bigoted CEO -- what if it's the reverse next time? You'd be cool with a bigoted mayor telling a gay-friendly company they can't expand into his town?

I don't actually about Chick Fil-A's quarterly profits, but I do care about the danger of establishing a precedent where local officials can threaten businesses based on the views of people involved with those businesses. If C-F-A is breaking laws, then let's sue the piss out of them. If they're not, and their CEO just a retrograde bigot, then let the people decide if they want to frequent his chain.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:00 PM on July 26, 2012 [2 favorites]


If you can't see the difference between a real-life public official actively working to stop bigotry and a hypothetical future official working to support it, I'm not sure what to tell you.
posted by AkzidenzGrotesk at 12:07 PM on July 26, 2012


AkzidenzGrotesk: "If you can't see the difference between a real-life public official actively working to stop bigotry and a hypothetical future official working to support it, I'm not sure what to tell you."

Is your implication that there's not a long history of public officials supporting bigotry?

Look, I want my team to be out there attacking bigots, I just don't want them using the same tactics that wingnuts have used for decades. The proper venue for stopping discrimination is the court system, not the zoning board.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:11 PM on July 26, 2012


Sorry, hit post before completing my thought. Here's the rest:

Menino is on the right side of history here. Some people understand that and some don't.

You spoke of "precedent", implying that there are legal issues in play. If I were in Menino's shoes, I would welcome a potential court action from CFA. Get everything out in the open, make CFA's franchising and hiring policies subject to discovery if possible, and let the chips fall.

On preview, I think we may be agreeing.
posted by AkzidenzGrotesk at 12:13 PM on July 26, 2012


Steve M. nails it.
If socially progressive officeholders establish this as a legitimate governmental approach to business licensing, how is the war going to proceed? It isn't just that red-state mayors and governors will feel entitled to ban gay-owned or pro-Planned Parenthood businesses -- it's that their side is far more united in anger and vindictiveness. When the dust settles, who will have banned more businesses: a few liberal-leaning mayors and governors -- or the entire Bible Belt? What would Rick Perry do with a precedent like this? Or Bobby Jindal? Or Ken Cuccinelli if he wins his gubernatorial campaign? Do we really want to find out?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:33 PM on July 26, 2012 [1 favorite]


Stephen Colbert on Chick-Fil-A.
posted by ericb at 10:01 AM on July 27, 2012 [2 favorites]






Chick-Fil-A's VP of Public Relations Dies of Heart Attack. Poor guy. I can't imagine the last week or so was a good time for him.
posted by yellowbinder at 12:05 PM on July 27, 2012 [2 favorites]


Chick-Fil-A Approval Plummets
YouGov BrandIndex measurement scores range from 100 to -100 and are compiled by subtracting negative feedback from positive. A zero score means equal positive and negative feedback.

On July 16th, the day the Baptist Press published its Dan Cathy interview, Chick-Fil-A's Index score was 65, a very substantial 19 points above the Top National QSR Sector average score that day of 46.

Four days later, Chick-Fil-A had fallen to 47 score, three points below the Top National QSR Sector average score of 50. This past Wednesday, Chick-Fil-A had a 39 score compared to the Top National QSR Sector average score of 43.
posted by ericb at 11:41 AM on July 28, 2012




Chick-Fil-A Has Weird Fans.
posted by ericb at 2:21 PM on July 29, 2012






Amazon vs. Chick-fil-A: Who Wins?
posted by ericb at 10:51 AM on July 30, 2012




Wait, the Berenstain Bears distance themselves? I thought Stan and Jan's kid was a full on fundie who has twisted the Bears into an Evangelical tool? I'd have thought he'd be fully in favor of this.
posted by sotonohito at 12:04 PM on July 31, 2012


Chick-Fil-A President's Anti-Gay Comments Continue To Inspire Movements Across The Country.

Oh the fun you can have by randomly inserting the word "bowel" into things.
posted by JHarris at 8:43 AM on August 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


Conan O'Brien introduces the new 'Chaz The Intolerant Chicken' puppet.
posted by ericb at 8:47 AM on August 1, 2012


Chaz's earlier appearance on Conan's show.
posted by ericb at 8:52 AM on August 1, 2012




Mike Huckabee Declares August 1 ‘Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day’ Says 'Not a protest, he just likes chicken.' And Holy God, does that man like chicken.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:28 AM on August 1, 2012


Cartoon Blog: Pounding Chicken With A Bible
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:33 AM on August 1, 2012








Dear god ericb, he (being Ron Williams, candidate for Mississippi's 4th district -- those words should be stuck to him with glue) wasn't misspeaking. Reprehensible.
posted by JHarris at 3:08 PM on August 1, 2012


"The Constitution is very clear. When government restricts and punishes the people for exercising their First Amendment rights, then we are to default to the Second Amendment (right to keep and bear arms)."

Dude. That's not how it works. You should be disqualified from seeking office for that statement alone.

And every time one of these assholes spouts something like this, I wish people would flood their email inboxes with photos of the aftermath of the Giffords shooting. I mean, okay, the perp was a nut, but this rhetoric is abhorrent and should be socially, politically, and culturally unacceptable, especially by those holding or seeking public office. And they should keep in mind that it's a very sharp double-edged sword they're swinging.
posted by rtha at 3:44 PM on August 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


So just so I'm clear here. He's being called homophobic, a hate monger and a bigot because he supports a non-profit organization that teaches traditional family values?

Seems to be a bit of a sensational and oversensitive reaction.

I've seen nothing condemning, hateful or prejudiced against the homosexual community. We're in a sad world when people are hated for supporting organizations that seek to improve families. Now, if it was an organization dedicated to the eradication of gays, or the subjugation of them, then I'm all on board with the hate talk (e.g. Westboro Baptists) and I'm first in line. But I simply don't see it here.
posted by Descent at 3:49 PM on August 1, 2012


Mike Huckabee Declares August 1 ‘Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day’

Today is also Free Birth Control Day.
posted by homunculus at 3:59 PM on August 1, 2012


You don't see anything prejudiced about an organization that wants to keep gays from getting legally married, and doesn't mind lying through its teeth to do so? Okay. If they want to spend their money supporting heterosexually married couples (counseling? childcare? assistance with medical or housing costs? etc.) then yay for them. They want to spend money lying about how I'm going to destroy America if I marry my partner, well, fuck that. Liars.

In my family, traditional values were things like: be kind, pick up after yourself, share, no yelling when you're mad, no hitting or biting, don't lie. I don't know why that organization gets to define "traditional" family values in ways that seem to exclude everything I was taught.
posted by rtha at 4:09 PM on August 1, 2012 [2 favorites]


Mike Huckabee Declares August 1 ‘Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day’

Apparently, Huckabee thinks he still wields some sort of proclamation power. It's magical, fundamentalist Christian conservative thinking.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:23 PM on August 1, 2012


...he supports a non-profit organization that teaches traditional family values?

Sort of like describing Al Qaeda as supporting traditional Muslim values, no?
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:28 PM on August 1, 2012 [1 favorite]


I actually do see that as prejudiced; an organization bent on preventing equal rights is by definition prejudiced. My point is I don't see it here.

If someone is for the “traditional” family, does that automatically make them against/scared of/hateful towards homosexuals? No, absolutely not. This debate has boiled down to pure “either you’re with us or against us” and people are much much to quick to dramatize stances and jump to calling people homophobes and hateful simply for not being aligned with them. There's a lot more grey in this debate than people want there to be.

And I've seen the circumstantial evidence that points to the CEO's pastor's mom's cousin that founded a non-profit that used to have a "gay therapy" program. It just feeds my argument that people are looking to bucket everyone into one of two categories (i.e. good and hateful).
posted by Descent at 4:39 PM on August 1, 2012


Chick-Fil-A's WinShape Foundation: Now partnering with NOM's Ruth Institute, from 2011.

Investigation Reveals Depth of Chick-Fil-A's Ties to Anti-Gay Causes, also 2011.

Det. Lester Freamon: "You follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. But you start to follow the money, and you don't know where the fuck it's gonna take you."
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:54 PM on August 1, 2012 [3 favorites]


My point is I don't see it here.

Founding an organization that gives money to anti-gay organizations and causes is pretty clear to me.
posted by rtha at 5:34 PM on August 1, 2012 [4 favorites]


Apparently, Huckabee thinks he still wields some sort of proclamation power. It's magical, fundamentalist Christian conservative thinking.

Tell that to the dozens of cars that were wrapped around the Tuscaloosa location all day and night today. Blech.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:18 PM on August 1, 2012


Not that I wish heart disease on anyone, but if some ignorant yokels want to stuff their foodholes with grease and chicken parts, I say go for it.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:15 PM on August 1, 2012


> If someone is for the “traditional” family, does that automatically make them against/scared of/hateful towards homosexuals?

Well, if they were just practicing their traditional marriages behind closed doors and not hurting anyone, I don't have any problem with that.

Unfortunately they are participating in the legal realm to define marriage as only that which they deem appropriate, which is hurting people (such as denying rights to same sex couples that they would otherwise have, like health insurance coverage, retirement benefits, hospital visits, etc). Somehow they view marriage as a finite resource which somehow has to be regulated. I don't see my friends getting gay married (multiple times, to the same people, thanks prop 8!) somehow watering down my marriage (if I ever do get married).

Of course, most of this Traditional Marriage crap started as a dogwhistle to get religious voters aligned with the GOP (DOMA and all that thanks to W), and those elected officials are pretty bad about doing basic governance it appears, so thanks, traditional marriage movement for not only making life difficult for my friends, you've also allowed yourself to be hijacked by corporate interests to ensure government doesn't function at all.
posted by mrzarquon at 8:56 AM on August 2, 2012 [1 favorite]








KFC Loves Gays (with John Goodman).
posted by ericb at 10:58 AM on August 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


that is almost FPP worthy
posted by The Whelk at 11:11 AM on August 2, 2012


They haven't fired Shepard Smith yet?
posted by moammargaret at 11:44 AM on August 2, 2012


I don't see my friends getting gay married (multiple times, to the same people, thanks prop 8!) somehow watering down my marriage (if I ever do get married).

Doing our best to grab all the marriage so you guys can't have any! BWAHAHA!

(And nobody told me that destroying traditional marriage was so much work! All times I've gay-married the same woman, and none of our straight-married friends have had so much as a separation, let alone a divorce. What's a dyke gotta do to wreck someone's traditional marriage already?)
posted by rtha at 11:46 AM on August 2, 2012 [1 favorite]




Yes, our national discourse is messed up; but "this (apparently) isn't the time to talk about that Jon"
The real victims though, of course, (poor innocent and oppressed) CNN tells us all authoritatively;

And yet the controversy over Chick-fil-A is a clear sign that religious liberty is at risk and that this nation has reached the brink of tyrannical intolerance from at least some of our elected leaders.

when people are hated for supporting organizations that seek to improve families
Yeah! Wait, what?
According to the most current AFCARS (Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System Report) Report, released in July 2012, there were approximately 400,540 children in the U. S. in foster care on September 30, 2011
....
In Arizona, where the couple lived at the time, only individuals and legally married couples may adopt from the U.S. foster care system. But because a same-sex couple cannot legally marry in the state, only one parent can be granted legal rights to the child.
....
And to him, that is unacceptable with 107,000 boys and girls waiting for adoption in the United States.
Now, if it was an organization dedicated to the eradication of gays, or the subjugation of them

This appears to me a fundamentally unreasonable bar to set for the 'acceptable' "vileness" of political power before taking notice or action (speaking for me that is, if that is what it takes to drive someone else to 'political action', that is fine, and their free choice)... I am sorry if this is "offensive", or feeds into a preconceived notion that people just want to put other people into buckets; but I will not choose to wait until people are being made literal slaves or put to death to say that I am unhappy with some power-weilding political faction in the guise of a "religion", or some made up phrase like "good" "family" "values"... I believe in the importance of good family values, and that belief accepts, for example, two beloved women, fortunate to be Canadian, married, who are moms and amazing moms at that, obviously, to their daughter, and I consider them, without hesitations as possessing "good traditional family values".

In our wealth, pride and arrogance, winner-take-all, mememe based modern political economy, win, fail, or be-failed; with so unbelievably very many kids homeless, abused, beaten, broken, despised even by the system that is supposed to protect them, essentially thrown away like so much trash... it is the height of prideful arrogance to denounce willing, moral, good parents the ability to care, with love, and sharing good values with those discarded demographics (this is a large part of the the drive behind "good family values".

Seriously though, there is a difference between "disliking that someone doesn't align with views one has", and getting at least a little troubled when people are putting big money into the big pools that are shaping laws, which control, and run the lives of people... you realize that, while, no, we aren't talking about "Death Camps", or "Subjugation/Slavery", people, in Modern America, 2012, have unequal dispensation of rights to protection under the law which is supposed to treat all people as equal.

This is an unacceptable state of play for a modern Nation wishing to participate in a global, diverse economy. Regardless of who one finds themselves aligned with (just try running a business with 'values' like those in Canada, people would laugh you out of the Better Business Bureau). If we were talking attempts to make an illegality of "personal acceptance of JC", or attempts to control lives through the law, that would be equally vile to mind. That is not what 2012 looks like.

Would we want "people who support traditional families" to be barred from adoptions? No? Why not? Why so suddenly serious? Or from being able to visit their "families" in hospital? No? Why not? Why so serious now? From having family health benefit plans? How about total abolition of the legality of marriages between a man and a woman? Would anyone using their money to push for laws making gay folks Legal Second Class Citizens accept any of that lying down (or without some "sensitivity" on the issue)?

My point is that gay folks are not robots... so, wishing that gay folks (who do not "act in lockstep", and don't necessarily 'share' some ideology) would just "suffer in silence", or without emotion, or without sensitivity to the impact of the pools of money rallying against their very rights to equality as citizens, rather than making a big deal about something... is one-sided, and unfair as a "complaint.

If we don't want our politics to be all about "Buckets that we believe other people are in", maybe we could reign in accusations of people simply being "oversensitive". These are issues that actually impact the people that they impact... the point of big issues is that the people that they don't impact... aren't impacted... and thus, tend to be glib about, though we really cannot 'feel' the impact that the issue has on those people whom it impacts.
posted by infinite intimation at 12:34 PM on August 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


They haven't fired Shepard Smith yet?

He does seem to be growing a pair at the same time he's waking up from the Kool-Aid.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:46 PM on August 2, 2012


And nobody told me that destroying traditional marriage was so much work!

Barney Frank on 'Real Time With Bill Maher' (March 11, 2005):
"I try very hard to be a responsible citizen and as a gay man I try very hard to keep track of the marriages I have destroyed, and there really aren't that many. I may have some secret admirers out there and I may have wreaked more havoc than I realize, but they haven't called."
posted by ericb at 3:50 PM on August 2, 2012 [1 favorite]


Oh, looks like the discussion has moved to a new thread.
posted by ericb at 3:58 PM on August 2, 2012


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