"I like guns because guns are fun," said 9-year-old Kaykay Mace.
May 7, 2013 12:13 PM Subscribe
This post was deleted for the following reason: Apologies for what feels like a late delete, but this seems like it's basically just a short Wonkette rundown on "NRA Are Still Terrible, Guns Still Problematic Part Of American Culture" and we've had these discussions an awful lot already. -- cortex
With the headlines about a five-year-old using a gun marketed as "My First Rifle" barely faded, the NRA invited attendees to "[s]hare the excitement with spectacular displays and fun-filled events for the entire family".
Eh, there's always a new headline: Boy, 8, accidentally kills self at gun show
posted by cjorgensen at 12:19 PM on May 7, 2013
Eh, there's always a new headline: Boy, 8, accidentally kills self at gun show
posted by cjorgensen at 12:19 PM on May 7, 2013
You know, I saw this and thought, "Man I'm tired of this 'let's laugh at the slack jawed yokels' approach to right-wing/gun-rights media coverage we've seen lately," then opened the article and saw You could buy a "zombie" Obama to shoot at and was like...ok then.
posted by sweetkid at 12:20 PM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
posted by sweetkid at 12:20 PM on May 7, 2013 [7 favorites]
And a vampire Obama, but you need a stake to kill that one.
posted by cjorgensen at 12:22 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by cjorgensen at 12:22 PM on May 7, 2013
Or lots of bullets. I'd like to see vampire Obama come back to life after being shredded by my 3-barrel shotgun!
Fun facts: Gun ownership in general is down by almost 10% since the 1970s, and down 20% among men. But don't worry, gun owners are picking up the slack -- the US, with 5% of the world's population, now owns 50 percent of all guns.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:23 PM on May 7, 2013
Fun facts: Gun ownership in general is down by almost 10% since the 1970s, and down 20% among men. But don't worry, gun owners are picking up the slack -- the US, with 5% of the world's population, now owns 50 percent of all guns.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:23 PM on May 7, 2013
[Glenn Beck] also let loose with a metaphor regarding the "full armor of God" astonishing for its cohesiveness, if not its imagery:Yes, it might be. That's just Ephesians 6.13-17, briefly elided.
[W]e will fight by strapping on the full armor of God. We will stand firm with the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit.
It sounds pretty fearsome – and very Biblical – until you remember that Beck's "helmet of salvation" is made of tin foil. While my knowledge of scripture might be subpar,
posted by shakespeherian at 12:25 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
sweetkid: "You know, I saw this and thought, "Man I'm tired of this 'let's laugh at the slack jawed yokels' approach to right-wing/gun-rights media coverage we've seen lately," then opened the article and saw You could buy a "zombie" Obama to shoot at and was like...ok then."
I had a similar reaction. Of course, if left wingers had done this while George W. Bush was in office, Republicans would have been screaming treason and shipping anyone responsible off to Guantanamo.
posted by zarq at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2013
I had a similar reaction. Of course, if left wingers had done this while George W. Bush was in office, Republicans would have been screaming treason and shipping anyone responsible off to Guantanamo.
posted by zarq at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2013
Television and radio host Glenn Beck warned NRA members that the "freedom of all mankind is at stake" and the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
posted by filthy light thief at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by filthy light thief at 12:26 PM on May 7, 2013
[W]e will fight by strapping on the full armor of God. We will stand firm with the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation
The full armor of God leaves them open at the groin. Now we know where to strike!
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:29 PM on May 7, 2013 [18 favorites]
The full armor of God leaves them open at the groin. Now we know where to strike!
posted by Steely-eyed Missile Man at 12:29 PM on May 7, 2013 [18 favorites]
Compare and contrast: Beck's statement, and Fox News' thoughts on the other amendments (article with embedded Daily Show clip).
posted by filthy light thief at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by filthy light thief at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013
"I like guns because guns are fun," said 9-year-old Kaykay Mace.
Well, she's right. They are fun. And some of the best times of my young life were me and my dad plinking empty soda/beer cans with a .22.
But this nonsense of a 5 year old having easy access to a gun - and then playing with it around the house ? That would never have flown where I grew up.
We'd be better off as a nation if we treated "accidental" shootings and discharges as what they are - criminal negligence and prosecuted them like they crime they are.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013 [24 favorites]
Well, she's right. They are fun. And some of the best times of my young life were me and my dad plinking empty soda/beer cans with a .22.
But this nonsense of a 5 year old having easy access to a gun - and then playing with it around the house ? That would never have flown where I grew up.
We'd be better off as a nation if we treated "accidental" shootings and discharges as what they are - criminal negligence and prosecuted them like they crime they are.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:30 PM on May 7, 2013 [24 favorites]
As of today, there have been 3,852 gun deaths in the US since the Newtown tragedy on December 12, 2012. That figure includes 71 children and 195 teens.
posted by zarq at 12:33 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by zarq at 12:33 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Glenn Beck? AGAIN? He's like a turd that won't flush!
posted by entropicamericana at 12:34 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 12:34 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
Steely-eyed Missile Man: "[W]e will fight by strapping on the full armor of God. We will stand firm with the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation
The full armor of God leaves them open at the groin. Now we know where to strike"
There's the codpiece of homophobia, of course.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:34 PM on May 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
The full armor of God leaves them open at the groin. Now we know where to strike"
There's the codpiece of homophobia, of course.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:34 PM on May 7, 2013 [14 favorites]
With Fuzzybutt all the way on this one. My dad used to take me and my brother shooting as young as the age of 7, and before he even let us touch a rifle he drilled the basic gun safety rules into our heads over and over. Even at the age of 7, I sure as hell was conditioned not to play around with a gun, never aim it at anything I didn't intend to shoot, and always treat it as loaded. We were taught to respect guns and not treat them as toys. (and btw, the company marketing guns to children in pretty colors, I find that despicable.)
Our guns were ALWAYS locked up in a proper gun cabinet in the house, not laying around fucking loaded. The incident with the five year old should have had fuck all to do with the political gun control issue and everything to do with criminally neglectful, full out retarded parenting.
It's like trying to ban knives because some idiot parent let a five year old run around with a switch blade and he buried it in his sister.
posted by WhitenoisE at 12:37 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Our guns were ALWAYS locked up in a proper gun cabinet in the house, not laying around fucking loaded. The incident with the five year old should have had fuck all to do with the political gun control issue and everything to do with criminally neglectful, full out retarded parenting.
It's like trying to ban knives because some idiot parent let a five year old run around with a switch blade and he buried it in his sister.
posted by WhitenoisE at 12:37 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
54 Things I Learned At The Biggest Gun Show In The World
posted by homunculus at 12:38 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by homunculus at 12:38 PM on May 7, 2013
We will stand firm with the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation...
The gauntlets of virtue! The hauberk of steadfastness! The cuirass of politeness! The gorget of hilarity! The sabaton of credulity! The milk of magnesia! The fear of a black planet! The top hat, wheelbarrow, race car and thimble! CAN ANYONE ELSE HEAR THOSE VOICES OR IS IT JUST MEEEE?
posted by PlusDistance at 12:39 PM on May 7, 2013 [25 favorites]
The gauntlets of virtue! The hauberk of steadfastness! The cuirass of politeness! The gorget of hilarity! The sabaton of credulity! The milk of magnesia! The fear of a black planet! The top hat, wheelbarrow, race car and thimble! CAN ANYONE ELSE HEAR THOSE VOICES OR IS IT JUST MEEEE?
posted by PlusDistance at 12:39 PM on May 7, 2013 [25 favorites]
Glenn Beck? AGAIN? He's like a turd that won't flush!
Which makes sense, since that's a sign of too much fat in your diet, I think.
That's just Ephesians 6.13-17, briefly elided.
Oh, religion. Is there nothing destructive or idiotic people can't use you as a crutch to prop up?
posted by maxwelton at 12:39 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Which makes sense, since that's a sign of too much fat in your diet, I think.
That's just Ephesians 6.13-17, briefly elided.
Oh, religion. Is there nothing destructive or idiotic people can't use you as a crutch to prop up?
posted by maxwelton at 12:39 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
The full armor of God leaves them open at the groin.
Well yes, but there's a good reason.
"Ephesians Sequence Ready!"
"Activate! Boots! of! The Gospel!"
posted by FatherDagon at 12:40 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Well yes, but there's a good reason.
"Ephesians Sequence Ready!"
"Activate! Boots! of! The Gospel!"
posted by FatherDagon at 12:40 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Jon Stewart Tears Apart NRA’s False Choice Between Freedom And ‘Obama-Sponsored Government Mom Rape’
posted by homunculus at 12:43 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by homunculus at 12:43 PM on May 7, 2013
Television and radio host Glenn Beck warned NRA members that the "freedom of all mankind is at stake" and the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Beck is going to get along great with the NRA's new president, Jim Porter:
New NRA Head Not Fan Of ‘Fake President’ Obama, Thinks Civil War Was ‘Northern Aggression’
posted by homunculus at 12:49 PM on May 7, 2013
Beck is going to get along great with the NRA's new president, Jim Porter:
New NRA Head Not Fan Of ‘Fake President’ Obama, Thinks Civil War Was ‘Northern Aggression’
posted by homunculus at 12:49 PM on May 7, 2013
Eh, there's always a new headline: Boy, 8, accidentally kills self at gun show
How does a story from 2008 count as a "new headline"?
posted by themanwho at 12:54 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
How does a story from 2008 count as a "new headline"?
posted by themanwho at 12:54 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
WhitenoisE: "The incident with the five year old should have had fuck all to do with the political gun control issue"
Let's just assume for the sake of argument that everyone on either side of the "gun control issue" supports serious criminal penalties for parents who negligently allow their kids to get ahold of guns stored in the home. Does anyone think this will stop these incidents from happening?
Pop quiz. Which of the following products is more of an immediate danger to children if they get their hands on them:
(a) tobacco products
(b) alcohol
(c) firearms
Now, which of these can be legally marketed to children?
Could we maybe all get on board with "let's not market guns to kids" as a bit of common ground?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:02 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
Let's just assume for the sake of argument that everyone on either side of the "gun control issue" supports serious criminal penalties for parents who negligently allow their kids to get ahold of guns stored in the home. Does anyone think this will stop these incidents from happening?
Pop quiz. Which of the following products is more of an immediate danger to children if they get their hands on them:
(a) tobacco products
(b) alcohol
(c) firearms
Now, which of these can be legally marketed to children?
Could we maybe all get on board with "let's not market guns to kids" as a bit of common ground?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:02 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
New NRA Head Not Fan Of ‘Fake President’ Obama, Thinks Civil War Was ‘Northern Aggression’
I've been wondering for a while now when the NRA was going to go full on neo-confederate.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:07 PM on May 7, 2013
I've been wondering for a while now when the NRA was going to go full on neo-confederate.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:07 PM on May 7, 2013
Does anyone think this will stop these incidents from happening?I believe it will stop some, yes. And this thought comes from the deepest, darkest depths of my cynicism, that there are, indeed, parents who would be more careful, not at the threat of losing a child, but at the threat of prosecution.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:08 PM on May 7, 2013
Sigh. The solution to our fire problem is not "more gasoline." Most anti-gun groups refuse to say it because they are petrified of the consequences, but this mess isn't going to end until we dump the 2nd Amendment and beat these swords back into plowshares.
Yes, I want to take away your guns. No, I don't care that you think they're fun or that you believe they make you free. And when this becomes the policy of the state (and it will, because this is becoming a public health crisis too big to ignore) I guess you can try to fight back if you want, but you will lose, thus proving all of your paranoid ranting incorrect.
posted by 1adam12 at 1:11 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
Yes, I want to take away your guns. No, I don't care that you think they're fun or that you believe they make you free. And when this becomes the policy of the state (and it will, because this is becoming a public health crisis too big to ignore) I guess you can try to fight back if you want, but you will lose, thus proving all of your paranoid ranting incorrect.
posted by 1adam12 at 1:11 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
Pop quiz. Which of the following products is more of an immediate danger to children if they get their hands on them:
(a) tobacco products
(b) alcohol
(c) firearms
Yea, while I'm on board with the general idea of not marketing any of the three items to kids and requiring a much higher degree of responsibility out of parents in any/all aspects of child rearing, obviously including firearms safety... this isn't a great example for me.
I grew up in a household that featured all three of these things as did many other family members. I'd say (a) is by far the scarier item in that list to have kids exposed to/marketed to. Both my mother and father have had heart problems and one has COPD from years of smoking. My cousin picked up the habit and it was facilitated by stealing cigs from his parents. Regarding (b), I had plenty of friends/acquaintances (I remember 7 or 8 off the top of my head that died DURING their high school years) that I knew die while driving drunk.
(c) deserves respect but didn't even come close to (a) or (b) with regards to damage done in my neck of the woods, and I'm not from a place where guns are in any way, shape, or form uncommon.
I guess that may not jive with the general opinion in threads like this but I'll just say that all the no-holds-barred no/stop smoking ads I started to see in my later years were a godsend.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:11 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
(a) tobacco products
(b) alcohol
(c) firearms
Yea, while I'm on board with the general idea of not marketing any of the three items to kids and requiring a much higher degree of responsibility out of parents in any/all aspects of child rearing, obviously including firearms safety... this isn't a great example for me.
I grew up in a household that featured all three of these things as did many other family members. I'd say (a) is by far the scarier item in that list to have kids exposed to/marketed to. Both my mother and father have had heart problems and one has COPD from years of smoking. My cousin picked up the habit and it was facilitated by stealing cigs from his parents. Regarding (b), I had plenty of friends/acquaintances (I remember 7 or 8 off the top of my head that died DURING their high school years) that I knew die while driving drunk.
(c) deserves respect but didn't even come close to (a) or (b) with regards to damage done in my neck of the woods, and I'm not from a place where guns are in any way, shape, or form uncommon.
I guess that may not jive with the general opinion in threads like this but I'll just say that all the no-holds-barred no/stop smoking ads I started to see in my later years were a godsend.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:11 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
I believe it will stop some, yes. And this thought comes from the deepest, darkest depths of my cynicism, that there are, indeed, parents who would be more careful, not at the threat of losing a child, but at the threat of prosecution.
Well, sure, people respond to incentives. But in a world where BB guns and pellet guns exist, why are we letting gun manufacturers market full-on potentially lethal firearms to kids?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:11 PM on May 7, 2013
Well, sure, people respond to incentives. But in a world where BB guns and pellet guns exist, why are we letting gun manufacturers market full-on potentially lethal firearms to kids?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:11 PM on May 7, 2013
Wish I could've made it to the convention - I've have bought a couple of those Obama targets for sure!
posted by blaneyphoto at 1:15 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by blaneyphoto at 1:15 PM on May 7, 2013
RolandOfEld: "I grew up in a household that featured all three of these things as did many other family members. I'd say (a) is by far the scarier item in that list to have kids exposed to/marketed to. Both my mother and father have had heart problems and one has COPD from years of smoking. My cousin picked up the habit and it was facilitated by stealing cigs from his parents. Regarding (b), I had plenty of friends/acquaintances (I remember 7 or 8 off the top of my head that died DURING their high school years) that I knew die while driving drunk. "
You're hiding the ball here. The choice isn't between a house with none of these products and a house with all of these products, it's between these products being marketed to kids and them not being marketed to kids.
The long-term effects of smoking and alcohol are obviously a massive problem in society, but the question here is whether there is any good reason to continue to allow firearms to be marketed to children in a society where we've taken steps to ban marketing of these other products, which we both agree cause problems for those who use them and also those who just happen to grow up in houses with them.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:15 PM on May 7, 2013
You're hiding the ball here. The choice isn't between a house with none of these products and a house with all of these products, it's between these products being marketed to kids and them not being marketed to kids.
The long-term effects of smoking and alcohol are obviously a massive problem in society, but the question here is whether there is any good reason to continue to allow firearms to be marketed to children in a society where we've taken steps to ban marketing of these other products, which we both agree cause problems for those who use them and also those who just happen to grow up in houses with them.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:15 PM on May 7, 2013
tonycpsu:
posted by charred husk at 1:16 PM on May 7, 2013
why are we letting gun manufacturers market full-on potentially lethal firearms to kids?I don't think anyone has spoken against not marketing guns to children. At worst they have said, "Sure, but I don't think it will help much."
posted by charred husk at 1:16 PM on May 7, 2013
If the switchblade was sold as an age-appropriate toy in a fun color, sized for kid hands, I think it would be hauled off the market in short order. Rifles apparently are different, as 5 year olds need to defend their country from liberals at gunpoint.
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:17 PM on May 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
posted by Slap*Happy at 1:17 PM on May 7, 2013 [8 favorites]
You're hiding the ball here. The choice isn't between a house with none of these products and a house with all of these products, it's between these products being marketed to kids and them not being marketed to kids.
Nope, I'm saying that when you place them in a list and say "which is a more immediate danger to kids" I think that I come up with a different answer than you. You were the one that literally said to pick one of the choices. No more, no less.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:18 PM on May 7, 2013
Nope, I'm saying that when you place them in a list and say "which is a more immediate danger to kids" I think that I come up with a different answer than you. You were the one that literally said to pick one of the choices. No more, no less.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:18 PM on May 7, 2013
If anyone accidentally points a cigarette or a bottle of booze at someone, pretty much no one's going to die or be injured.
posted by rtha at 1:20 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
posted by rtha at 1:20 PM on May 7, 2013 [6 favorites]
And you kind of made the point here:
I guess that may not jive with the general opinion in threads like this but I'll just say that all the no-holds-barred no/stop smoking ads I started to see in my later years were a godsend.
To actually market the message that those items are inappropriate for children made an impact. I'd like to see the same sort of responsible messaging coming from the gun lobby.
posted by amanda at 1:30 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
I guess that may not jive with the general opinion in threads like this but I'll just say that all the no-holds-barred no/stop smoking ads I started to see in my later years were a godsend.
To actually market the message that those items are inappropriate for children made an impact. I'd like to see the same sort of responsible messaging coming from the gun lobby.
posted by amanda at 1:30 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
If anyone accidentally points a cigarette or a bottle of booze at someone, pretty much no one's going to die or be injured.
I 100% disagree.
To actually market the message that those items are inappropriate for children made an impact. I'd like to see the same sort of responsible messaging coming from the gun lobby.
Totally agree. Again, with respect to kids don't market dangerous things and let them learn about them via routes that lead to responsible, respectful use. We are on the same page here.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:33 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I 100% disagree.
To actually market the message that those items are inappropriate for children made an impact. I'd like to see the same sort of responsible messaging coming from the gun lobby.
Totally agree. Again, with respect to kids don't market dangerous things and let them learn about them via routes that lead to responsible, respectful use. We are on the same page here.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:33 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile in my ever-crazier home state of NC, State House lawmakers voted late Monday night to allow concealed weapons on college campuses, state property, greenways, bike trails, at sporting events and in businesses that serve alcohol.
I just bought a new house, so damned if I'm leaving, but if I was younger I'd be outta here. Republicans running the show in NC since the last election have gone full tilt wacko.
posted by freecellwizard at 1:35 PM on May 7, 2013
I just bought a new house, so damned if I'm leaving, but if I was younger I'd be outta here. Republicans running the show in NC since the last election have gone full tilt wacko.
posted by freecellwizard at 1:35 PM on May 7, 2013
To be clear about my last line, read it like this "with respect to kids we shouldn't market dangerous things at them and should let them learn about them via routes that lead to responsible, respectful use". Sorry if it came across like I was saying things are fine the way they are and this is a non-issue.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:36 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:36 PM on May 7, 2013
The other day I heard about a shooting out West, and as I was googling I discovered a story from a couple weeks ago about a guy in Washington state who killed his girlfriend and then three other residents of his apartment complex. And I thought, how did I not even hear about this? That’s how common gun violence is in this country – blink and you’ve missed a few thousand more gun deaths.
I’ve been a supporter of more intelligent gun control since the awful days of the early 80s after the notorious deaths/ severe injuries of various well-known people, including, of course, Jim Brady. Cut to three decades later, and this insane country is still controlled by people like many I know, who continue to delude themselves that their guns will keep them safe, all evidence to the contrary.
posted by NorthernLite at 1:39 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I’ve been a supporter of more intelligent gun control since the awful days of the early 80s after the notorious deaths/ severe injuries of various well-known people, including, of course, Jim Brady. Cut to three decades later, and this insane country is still controlled by people like many I know, who continue to delude themselves that their guns will keep them safe, all evidence to the contrary.
posted by NorthernLite at 1:39 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I 100% disagree.
Be serious. If I accidentally point a bottle of bourbon at you thinking it's closed but it's open - you might get bourbon on you. I apologize, and offer to clean it up, get your shirt dry-cleaned, etc. If I accidentally bump you with a lit smoke, I get you a bandaid and/or a new shirt and a big, big apology.
What can I do if I am five - for fifty, for that matter - and I accidentally point a loaded gun at you and it goes off?
Smoking and drinking to excess can kill you, usually over a period of decades. A gun accident is pretty immediate and frequently devastating.
posted by rtha at 1:41 PM on May 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
Be serious. If I accidentally point a bottle of bourbon at you thinking it's closed but it's open - you might get bourbon on you. I apologize, and offer to clean it up, get your shirt dry-cleaned, etc. If I accidentally bump you with a lit smoke, I get you a bandaid and/or a new shirt and a big, big apology.
What can I do if I am five - for fifty, for that matter - and I accidentally point a loaded gun at you and it goes off?
Smoking and drinking to excess can kill you, usually over a period of decades. A gun accident is pretty immediate and frequently devastating.
posted by rtha at 1:41 PM on May 7, 2013 [4 favorites]
It all boils down to this: Tragic accidents, ongoing gun violence, and periodic mass shootings are the price we pay for strong Second Amendment rights. Coping strategy: Hope it doesn't happen to us or someone we love. May the odds be ever in your favor!
posted by Daddy-O at 1:49 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Daddy-O at 1:49 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
CAN ANYONE ELSE HEAR THOSE VOICES OR IS IT JUST MEEEE?
Gun Show Vendor Jokes With Insane Customer About How He Hopes He's Not Insane
posted by homunculus at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2013
Gun Show Vendor Jokes With Insane Customer About How He Hopes He's Not Insane
posted by homunculus at 1:57 PM on May 7, 2013
Be serious. If I accidentally point a bottle of bourbon at you thinking it's closed but it's open - you might get bourbon on you. I apologize, and offer to clean it up, get your shirt dry-cleaned, etc. If I accidentally bump you with a lit smoke, I get you a bandaid and/or a new shirt and a big, big apology.
I accidentally point a loaded gun at you and it goes off
Since we were talking about marketing to kids I assumed you were putting forth an argument in that vein.
I'm speaking to improper exposure to any of the three hypotheticals that were put on the table. To ignore the impact of the other two and equate the only danger of exposing/marketing alcohol to kids to that of it spilling on your clothes and the main risk of trying to get kids hooked on tobacco being that of a cigarette burn is painfully obtuse.
A gun being stored improperly, insecurely, and with ready access to ammunition is absolutely a gratuitously unsafe and inexcusable risk but it'd be a bit silly if I said the worst risk of one being marketed to/around a untrained child is a bruised shoulder from the recoil. I'm not saying that. Nor am I saying we should throw our hands up on the issue since people smoke and 'they die every day, Amirite?'.
Heck I even respect and see the merit of people who openly state they want to ban all guns for the reasons they see as valid. However, I guess I can't jive with people who want to put firearms there like it's somehow worse than other items like tobacco or alcohol, as was done above, because *guns*. None of said items serve a real solid purpose in society of today, they're luxuries and dangerous ones at that, as they are able to cause harm both in the immediate moment and in the long term when abused.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:58 PM on May 7, 2013
I accidentally point a loaded gun at you and it goes off
Since we were talking about marketing to kids I assumed you were putting forth an argument in that vein.
I'm speaking to improper exposure to any of the three hypotheticals that were put on the table. To ignore the impact of the other two and equate the only danger of exposing/marketing alcohol to kids to that of it spilling on your clothes and the main risk of trying to get kids hooked on tobacco being that of a cigarette burn is painfully obtuse.
A gun being stored improperly, insecurely, and with ready access to ammunition is absolutely a gratuitously unsafe and inexcusable risk but it'd be a bit silly if I said the worst risk of one being marketed to/around a untrained child is a bruised shoulder from the recoil. I'm not saying that. Nor am I saying we should throw our hands up on the issue since people smoke and 'they die every day, Amirite?'.
Heck I even respect and see the merit of people who openly state they want to ban all guns for the reasons they see as valid. However, I guess I can't jive with people who want to put firearms there like it's somehow worse than other items like tobacco or alcohol, as was done above, because *guns*. None of said items serve a real solid purpose in society of today, they're luxuries and dangerous ones at that, as they are able to cause harm both in the immediate moment and in the long term when abused.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:58 PM on May 7, 2013
However, I guess I can't jive with people who want to put firearms there like it's somehow worse than other items like tobacco or alcohol, as was done above, because *guns* *deaths*.
posted by goethean at 2:03 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by goethean at 2:03 PM on May 7, 2013
However, I guess I can't jive with people who want to put firearms there like it's somehow worse than other items like tobacco or alcohol, as was done above, because *guns*
Speaking of obtuse, that's not even close to what I was saying. I asked the question of which was more of an immediate danger to kids and you came back with mortality statistics for not just kids, but all people who abuse alcohol or use tobacco.
I made a point specifically about marketing to kids. You decided to extrapolate from that to argue against the straw man that guns are inherently worse to society than cigarettes or alcohol. I know it's easier to fight on that terrain, but what we're talking about here is kids killing each other in accidents, and all I was asking for was for agreement that we ought to stop marketing guns to kids. If you're on board with that then we don't really have an argument, but please don't accuse me of making a larger point that I wasn't making.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:04 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Speaking of obtuse, that's not even close to what I was saying. I asked the question of which was more of an immediate danger to kids and you came back with mortality statistics for not just kids, but all people who abuse alcohol or use tobacco.
I made a point specifically about marketing to kids. You decided to extrapolate from that to argue against the straw man that guns are inherently worse to society than cigarettes or alcohol. I know it's easier to fight on that terrain, but what we're talking about here is kids killing each other in accidents, and all I was asking for was for agreement that we ought to stop marketing guns to kids. If you're on board with that then we don't really have an argument, but please don't accuse me of making a larger point that I wasn't making.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:04 PM on May 7, 2013 [3 favorites]
Gun dudes on my Facebook are going utterly apeshit over this article, which states that California is appropriating some money to help deal with a backlog of taking guns away from people who aren't legally allowed to have them, which they already do and have been doing for years but have a backlog due to funding issues. "The confiscation begins!" and all that other nonsense.
I don't actually have strong feelings about guns one way or the other, but goddamn do I find the pro-guns people incredibly obnoxious a lot more than the anti-gun people.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:05 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't actually have strong feelings about guns one way or the other, but goddamn do I find the pro-guns people incredibly obnoxious a lot more than the anti-gun people.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:05 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
As of today, there have been 3,852 gun deaths in the US since the Newtown tragedy on December 12, 2012. That figure includes 71 children and 195 teens.
Got any stats on the guns from US makers that kill in other nations? How about how many have died by the hands of US backed 'kinetic actions'?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:10 PM on May 7, 2013
Got any stats on the guns from US makers that kill in other nations? How about how many have died by the hands of US backed 'kinetic actions'?
posted by rough ashlar at 2:10 PM on May 7, 2013
In other news: Despite Skepticism, Cody Wilson Successfully 3D-Printed an Entire Gun
Cody Wilson's Fully 3D-Printed Gun Works Alarmingly Well
Previously.
posted by homunculus at 2:12 PM on May 7, 2013
Cody Wilson's Fully 3D-Printed Gun Works Alarmingly Well
Previously.
posted by homunculus at 2:12 PM on May 7, 2013
but goddamn do I find the pro-guns people incredibly obnoxious a lot more than the anti-gun people.
They seem about even to me, with this post's article being a case for the second set.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
They seem about even to me, with this post's article being a case for the second set.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:16 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Speaking of obtuse, that's not even close to what I was saying. I asked the question of which was more of an immediate danger to kids and you came back with mortality statistics for not just kids, but all people who abuse alcohol or use tobacco.
When you put them in a list and asked which was the most dangerous you invited the comparison. Also, if we're going to talk about policy then hypotheticals about spilling bourbon and hair-splitting about immediate danger and danger to self vs. others are beside the point, we need to look at the total death toll.
On that count, alchol and tobacco are hardly quaint vices that kill only a few people who overindulge. Alcohol kills about 80,000 people in the US per year according to the CDC. The CDC claims tobacco is responsible for 440,000 (one in five) US deaths per year.
posted by Pyry at 2:22 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
When you put them in a list and asked which was the most dangerous you invited the comparison. Also, if we're going to talk about policy then hypotheticals about spilling bourbon and hair-splitting about immediate danger and danger to self vs. others are beside the point, we need to look at the total death toll.
On that count, alchol and tobacco are hardly quaint vices that kill only a few people who overindulge. Alcohol kills about 80,000 people in the US per year according to the CDC. The CDC claims tobacco is responsible for 440,000 (one in five) US deaths per year.
posted by Pyry at 2:22 PM on May 7, 2013 [2 favorites]
When you put them in a list and asked which was the most dangerous you invited the comparison.
I invited the comparison with respect to their immediate danger to kids, and in relation to marketing those products to kids. You can't remove my question from the context just because doing so lets you make your own points.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:26 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I invited the comparison with respect to their immediate danger to kids, and in relation to marketing those products to kids. You can't remove my question from the context just because doing so lets you make your own points.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:26 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
They seem about even to me, with this post's article being a case for the second set.
Yeah, this is a really stupid article. I don't know whether she thinks I'll be surprised or care that Sarah Palin and Genn Beck made appearances, but I'm not and I don't. Her generalized objection to exposing kids to firearms is understandable but misguided. And mostly I'm struck by how you could write this same "Look at these assholes!" ten-point linkbait about pretty much any convention ever.
More amusingly, I looked up the author and saw this via Wikipedia:
posted by cribcage at 2:26 PM on May 7, 2013
Yeah, this is a really stupid article. I don't know whether she thinks I'll be surprised or care that Sarah Palin and Genn Beck made appearances, but I'm not and I don't. Her generalized objection to exposing kids to firearms is understandable but misguided. And mostly I'm struck by how you could write this same "Look at these assholes!" ten-point linkbait about pretty much any convention ever.
More amusingly, I looked up the author and saw this via Wikipedia:
In 2009 on an Amtrak train from New York to Washington Cox had a severe allergic reaction after eating a lentil salad. Fox News host Greta Van Susteren saw her choking and came to her aid with Benadryl, after which Cox recovered. Cox later personally thanked Van Susteren for saving her life.Wikipedia is awesome and Wikipedians are doing God's work.
posted by cribcage at 2:26 PM on May 7, 2013
I don't understand how the lentil salad anecdote is relevant.
posted by sweetkid at 2:29 PM on May 7, 2013
posted by sweetkid at 2:29 PM on May 7, 2013
Lentil salad is always relevant. Lentils are the new black.
posted by small_ruminant at 2:32 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by small_ruminant at 2:32 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
Just had to point out that the company that makes/sells the bleeding Obama zombie target doll also makes one called The Ex (pictured just to the right of the Obama doll)
Classy bunch, eh?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:38 PM on May 7, 2013
Classy bunch, eh?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:38 PM on May 7, 2013
this article, which states that California is appropriating some money to help deal with a backlog of taking guns away from people who aren't legally allowed to have them
Contrast with this:
In Some States, Gun Rights Trump Orders of Protection
posted by homunculus at 2:39 PM on May 7, 2013
Contrast with this:
In Some States, Gun Rights Trump Orders of Protection
posted by homunculus at 2:39 PM on May 7, 2013
They seem about even to me, with this post's article being a case for the second set.
I've never owned a gun, but Metafilter threads where people discuss them frequently leave me feeling so intensely alienated that I want to go buy one just because I can.
posted by Mars Saxman at 2:40 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I've never owned a gun, but Metafilter threads where people discuss them frequently leave me feeling so intensely alienated that I want to go buy one just because I can.
posted by Mars Saxman at 2:40 PM on May 7, 2013 [1 favorite]
I don't understand how the lentil salad anecdote is relevant.
You can choke up a lentil.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2013
You can choke up a lentil.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:41 PM on May 7, 2013
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posted by jquinby at 12:17 PM on May 7, 2013