It's New! Er!
June 15, 2013 2:24 AM Subscribe
MOOOOOOOM, I'M BOOOOOOORED Really? Didn't I just give you and your sister that thing that adds like 180 tracks to Mario Kart Wii? YEAH BUT SHE'S NOT AROUND AND MARIO KART REALLY BENEFITS FROM ANOTHER PLAYER Well, maybe I could play with you? COME ON MOM YOU'RE, LIKE, OLD OR SOMETHING So? What's your point? I WANT SOMETHING THAT'S JUST AS MUCH FUN BY MYSELF, BUT ALSO FOR WII, AND IDEALLY IT SHOULD ALSO HAVE OVER A HUNDRED LEVELS BECAUSE THAT PART IS ALWAYS IMPORTANT
Well… I actually had one more thing for you. I know your birthday isn't until the end of the summer, but maybe I should give you your present now so you get more time to enjoy it. Clear some space on that SD card, and break out your copy of New Super Mario Bros. Wii, because it's time to play Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii, a completely free new full-length fan-made Mario game that is arguably actually better than New Super Mario Bros. Wii U, and it won't cost you a cent. MOM WHY ARE YOU TALKING KIND OF LIKE A COMMERCIAL ALL OF A SUDDEN I just wanted you to feel like it's a brand new Mario game instead of just a little change to what you're used to. MOM, YOU'RE THE BEST MOM
For the skeptics in the audience, yes, this game is mind-blowingly well made. It scarcely even qualifies as a "hack" so much as a brand new Mario game that just happens to use a (heavily modified) New Super Mario Bros. Wii for its engine. New levels, new music, new enemies(!), an old and familiar power-up(!!), and even MARIO WORLD-STYLE BLOCK SWITCHES(!!!)
Happy birthday!
Well… I actually had one more thing for you. I know your birthday isn't until the end of the summer, but maybe I should give you your present now so you get more time to enjoy it. Clear some space on that SD card, and break out your copy of New Super Mario Bros. Wii, because it's time to play Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii, a completely free new full-length fan-made Mario game that is arguably actually better than New Super Mario Bros. Wii U, and it won't cost you a cent. MOM WHY ARE YOU TALKING KIND OF LIKE A COMMERCIAL ALL OF A SUDDEN I just wanted you to feel like it's a brand new Mario game instead of just a little change to what you're used to. MOM, YOU'RE THE BEST MOM
For the skeptics in the audience, yes, this game is mind-blowingly well made. It scarcely even qualifies as a "hack" so much as a brand new Mario game that just happens to use a (heavily modified) New Super Mario Bros. Wii for its engine. New levels, new music, new enemies(!), an old and familiar power-up(!!), and even MARIO WORLD-STYLE BLOCK SWITCHES(!!!)
Happy birthday!
If there's some way to get self-made content onto a Wii that doesn't involve potentially screwing the machine up, I'd love to hear it.
With the current generation of Wii-softmodding stuff you'd have to be pretty creative to brick your Wii. And given the opportunities you can open up on what's now a pretty old console, it's well worth the small amount time and effort involved.
posted by pipeski at 2:47 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
With the current generation of Wii-softmodding stuff you'd have to be pretty creative to brick your Wii. And given the opportunities you can open up on what's now a pretty old console, it's well worth the small amount time and effort involved.
posted by pipeski at 2:47 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Well....
The Homebrew Channel's installer is pretty safe now. It's been extensively tested on lots of systems and taking into account a number of possible eventualities. I've installed it on multiple Wiis without issues. You can install it without a game disk on fully updated Wii systems (4.3) using Letterbomb. Notably, you can even install the Homebrew Channel on the Wii mode of Wii-U systems.
And it seems that, according to the game's page, you don't have to install any pirate IOSes to play this if you have the original game. So the HBC alone enough should be enough.
There was a previous thread, also posted by Doctor Fedora, about users using similar mechanisms to add tracks to Super Mario Kart Wii. I'm glad he's keeping up with these things and making posts about them, because if he wasn't I'd probably have to.
posted by JHarris at 2:51 AM on June 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
The Homebrew Channel's installer is pretty safe now. It's been extensively tested on lots of systems and taking into account a number of possible eventualities. I've installed it on multiple Wiis without issues. You can install it without a game disk on fully updated Wii systems (4.3) using Letterbomb. Notably, you can even install the Homebrew Channel on the Wii mode of Wii-U systems.
And it seems that, according to the game's page, you don't have to install any pirate IOSes to play this if you have the original game. So the HBC alone enough should be enough.
There was a previous thread, also posted by Doctor Fedora, about users using similar mechanisms to add tracks to Super Mario Kart Wii. I'm glad he's keeping up with these things and making posts about them, because if he wasn't I'd probably have to.
posted by JHarris at 2:51 AM on June 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
(Ah, he linked to the Mario Kart thing he posted before. Sorry, my eyes kind of glaze over when presented with the solid wall of boldface all-caps.)
posted by JHarris at 2:52 AM on June 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 2:52 AM on June 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
If any kid of mine ever spoke to me like that s/he would soon be a very sorry kid indeed.
posted by Decani at 3:07 AM on June 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by Decani at 3:07 AM on June 15, 2013 [4 favorites]
Watched the first walkthrough/show-off video. This is really something. I mean, really something. Most fan games or level hacks are either way too simplistic or difficult in a mean-spirited way (and that's not even getting into Kaizo territory). This looks a lot like something Nintendo put together. That fans were both interested in, and capable of, doing something this professional, and completely for free, says something important, I think.
Watch the video. They did a hell of a lot more than add levels. They did custom music (a lot of it remixes of classic Mario themes), menus, added new tile types, a new powerup (including editing the game's interface to add it to the powerup storage), fixed bugs, finished implementing abandoned features, it uses its own save file, has its own title screen and intro animation, and the world map is made to do things not in NSMBW. This doesn't deserve to be called a mere hack, especially since at E3 Nintendo announced an 80-level pack for New Super Mario Bros. Wii-U that's a lot like this.
If more people were to make hacks like this, I'm saying, then the commercial-good/fanmade-bad dichotomy that underlies many assumptions about the game console industry breaks down in intriguing and exciting ways.
posted by JHarris at 3:18 AM on June 15, 2013 [7 favorites]
Watch the video. They did a hell of a lot more than add levels. They did custom music (a lot of it remixes of classic Mario themes), menus, added new tile types, a new powerup (including editing the game's interface to add it to the powerup storage), fixed bugs, finished implementing abandoned features, it uses its own save file, has its own title screen and intro animation, and the world map is made to do things not in NSMBW. This doesn't deserve to be called a mere hack, especially since at E3 Nintendo announced an 80-level pack for New Super Mario Bros. Wii-U that's a lot like this.
If more people were to make hacks like this, I'm saying, then the commercial-good/fanmade-bad dichotomy that underlies many assumptions about the game console industry breaks down in intriguing and exciting ways.
posted by JHarris at 3:18 AM on June 15, 2013 [7 favorites]
Fuck you, Angry Sun.
This is amazing. Too bad my Wii is already bricked.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:25 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
This is amazing. Too bad my Wii is already bricked.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 3:25 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I hear you EP. I thought mine was too, but then I remembered that I had BootMii/boot2 on it, and was able to successfully recover from an old NAND backup. Some investigation revealed and solved the problem from there, at least long enough to import all my Wii's files and purchases to the Wii-U.
BTW, borderline-relevant:
The channel that transfers your Wii's stuff to SD card is amazingly charming! Nintendo implemented a lengthy 3D scene starring the Pikmin that has them picking up the files from the system, trekking across a weird computery landscape with shafts, ramps, bridged chasms and other stuff, and stowing them all in a rocketship which takes off to a sun marked Wii-U. Then when you put the SD card in your Wii-U, switch to Wii mode, and run the import channel. Another lengthy animation plays as it imports the files, featuring the Pikmin marching through a considerably-more-fancy landscape as they move the icons to their new home. It's awesome, and somewhat saddening that you can only see it once (except on YouTube, of course).
posted by JHarris at 3:35 AM on June 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
BTW, borderline-relevant:
The channel that transfers your Wii's stuff to SD card is amazingly charming! Nintendo implemented a lengthy 3D scene starring the Pikmin that has them picking up the files from the system, trekking across a weird computery landscape with shafts, ramps, bridged chasms and other stuff, and stowing them all in a rocketship which takes off to a sun marked Wii-U. Then when you put the SD card in your Wii-U, switch to Wii mode, and run the import channel. Another lengthy animation plays as it imports the files, featuring the Pikmin marching through a considerably-more-fancy landscape as they move the icons to their new home. It's awesome, and somewhat saddening that you can only see it once (except on YouTube, of course).
posted by JHarris at 3:35 AM on June 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
Too much bold.
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:02 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:02 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Is that first comment a toast?
posted by scrowdid at 4:33 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by scrowdid at 4:33 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
every year we get a crockety bloat?
posted by lalochezia at 4:43 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by lalochezia at 4:43 AM on June 15, 2013
This looks good.
If more people were to make hacks like this, I'm saying, then the commercial-good/fanmade-bad dichotomy that underlies many assumptions about the game console industry breaks down in intriguing and exciting ways.
Isn't part of it about the difficulty of manipulating the files? In games where modding is encouraged, it often becomes one of the most enjoyable factors of the game e.g. Quake, Warcraft 3, Oblivion, ARMA 2 etc. So console makers shoot themselves in the foot by making it harder for other people to make their game better. Compare to Paradox's adding functionality in their DLC that modders asked for.
posted by ersatz at 4:52 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
If more people were to make hacks like this, I'm saying, then the commercial-good/fanmade-bad dichotomy that underlies many assumptions about the game console industry breaks down in intriguing and exciting ways.
Isn't part of it about the difficulty of manipulating the files? In games where modding is encouraged, it often becomes one of the most enjoyable factors of the game e.g. Quake, Warcraft 3, Oblivion, ARMA 2 etc. So console makers shoot themselves in the foot by making it harder for other people to make their game better. Compare to Paradox's adding functionality in their DLC that modders asked for.
posted by ersatz at 4:52 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Isn't Super Mario Brothers trademarked? This project seems to be begging for a cease and desist.
posted by gsteff at 5:00 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by gsteff at 5:00 AM on June 15, 2013
Isn't Super Mario Brothers trademarked? This project seems to be begging for a cease and desist.
Well, yeah, but that's not really at issue here -- they're not trying to pass Mario and Luigi off as their own. These are fan-made levels that still need a copy of the original game to play. Like the Mario Kart levels, or the giant Smash Bros. thing floating around, as long as it's free, I don't foresee Nintendo having any trouble with it.
posted by Amanojaku at 5:18 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, yeah, but that's not really at issue here -- they're not trying to pass Mario and Luigi off as their own. These are fan-made levels that still need a copy of the original game to play. Like the Mario Kart levels, or the giant Smash Bros. thing floating around, as long as it's free, I don't foresee Nintendo having any trouble with it.
posted by Amanojaku at 5:18 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Mod note: I tucked a bit more of this under the fold, since flags indicate that people are very unhappy with lots and lots of CAPS AND BOLD ON THE FRONT PAGE.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:09 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:09 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
> Isn't Super Mario Brothers trademarked?
Yes. Japanese companies tend to take a more relaxed attitude regarding fans reusing their intellectual property, though. It's mostly American companies that threaten lawsuits and ruination on their fans.
posted by ardgedee at 6:22 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Yes. Japanese companies tend to take a more relaxed attitude regarding fans reusing their intellectual property, though. It's mostly American companies that threaten lawsuits and ruination on their fans.
posted by ardgedee at 6:22 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
I dunno if I'd install the Homebrew Channel just for this, or just for Fatal Frame IV... But for both of them? Mmmmm...
Do I have to uninstall it any time I want to play a disc-based game, though?
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 6:32 AM on June 15, 2013
Do I have to uninstall it any time I want to play a disc-based game, though?
posted by ThatFuzzyBastard at 6:32 AM on June 15, 2013
Nope! You just play your disc games like normal!
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:02 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:02 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
No, the Homebrew Channel doesn't interfere with the Disc Channel at all.
posted by jepler at 7:02 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by jepler at 7:02 AM on June 15, 2013
Dammit I also need a Wii now. I loved playing this game coop. It's madness, but so fun. Truly impressive stuff for a fan project and props to Nintendo for not shutting it down.
posted by meta87 at 8:34 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by meta87 at 8:34 AM on June 15, 2013
NOW DO KID ICARUS. AND MAKE WITH THE HIP-TANAKA-LIKE CHOONS. how long I gotta holler til this happens
posted by gusandrews at 8:35 AM on June 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by gusandrews at 8:35 AM on June 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
I think I need to install the HBC. Of course I'd find out about this when I have no time for my normal hobbies, much less Mario, but eh...I could use a distraction at some point.
posted by limeonaire at 8:43 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by limeonaire at 8:43 AM on June 15, 2013
I might have to finally order that component cable. The Wii looks awful on my TV.
posted by ODiV at 8:59 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by ODiV at 8:59 AM on June 15, 2013
Yes, a component cable is worth it. The wii still won't look HD but it'll look better than on a composite cable.
posted by jepler at 9:04 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by jepler at 9:04 AM on June 15, 2013
Also, for those with homebrew enabled Wiis: Super Mario Bros 3+ is worth checking out. It's the NSMB game engine customized with the SMB3 levels (including the pirate ships!) and is available wherever Wii ISOs are found.
posted by porn in the woods at 10:06 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by porn in the woods at 10:06 AM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
Dolphin friendly?
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:39 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:39 AM on June 15, 2013
Searches suggest: official distro, no -- unofficial patched (illicit) ISOs, yes. I won't post links.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:41 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:41 AM on June 15, 2013
Here's a patch to make your own ISO of Newer Super Mario Bros using your storebought copy of NSMB, no need for Riivolution (which apparently doesn't work on the vWii side of the Wii U.)
posted by porn in the woods at 10:55 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by porn in the woods at 10:55 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
So if my desire to make this happen on my Wii is significant, but my knowledge level is low (i.e. do I need an SD card instead of a USB thumb drive? That's different?) where should I go for foolproof instructions on how to make this happen?
posted by sacre_bleu at 10:56 AM on June 15, 2013
posted by sacre_bleu at 10:56 AM on June 15, 2013
the commercial-good/fanmade-bad dichotomy that underlies many assumptions
The...the...what? It's really, really common for fanmade game mods to outshine the original commercial games. Fan mods invented Capture the Flag in first-person-shooters, added multiplayer to games like GTA and Just Cause 2, developed a game variant so popular it increased sales of the original game by 500%, fixed bugs, rebalanced gameplay, improved visuals and added huge amounts of new content to games (Oblivion, Skyrim, Minecraft, Quake, Unreal, Stalker, Thief, Freedom Force, Freespace, GTA, and many others) even created whole new game genres: Counter Strike (a Half-Life mod), Team Fortress (a Quake mod), DOTA (a Warcraft 3 mod which led to League of Legends -- which has more players than World of Warcraft, Minecraft, and Diablo 3 put together).
...about the game console industry
Oh. Poor console gamers.
posted by straight at 11:06 AM on June 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
The...the...what? It's really, really common for fanmade game mods to outshine the original commercial games. Fan mods invented Capture the Flag in first-person-shooters, added multiplayer to games like GTA and Just Cause 2, developed a game variant so popular it increased sales of the original game by 500%, fixed bugs, rebalanced gameplay, improved visuals and added huge amounts of new content to games (Oblivion, Skyrim, Minecraft, Quake, Unreal, Stalker, Thief, Freedom Force, Freespace, GTA, and many others) even created whole new game genres: Counter Strike (a Half-Life mod), Team Fortress (a Quake mod), DOTA (a Warcraft 3 mod which led to League of Legends -- which has more players than World of Warcraft, Minecraft, and Diablo 3 put together).
...about the game console industry
Oh. Poor console gamers.
posted by straight at 11:06 AM on June 15, 2013 [5 favorites]
Answering my own Q: OK, so the Newerteam site has a good installation guide. Now if I could just get please.hackmii.com to respond.
posted by sacre_bleu at 11:20 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by sacre_bleu at 11:20 AM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
My boyfriend and I have been playing this together for the past week. He found it the day it was announced on reddit and we started pretty much immediately. We're about halfway through World 4 now, taking our time to find all the exits and coins.
If you have any interest in this, you really should play it. I can all but promise you won't regret it. Our most common criticism of it is that, if anything, it's a little too much like the original game. Which is really some criticism. The new stuff they added is a joy for any long-time Mario fan. (A remix from the Yoshi's Cookie soundtrack! I thought everyone else forgot about that game.)
I thought the provided installation instructions were reasonably clear, but admittedly I installed the Homebrew Channel years ago, so I might not be a representative audience.
Also of interest: they used a tool called Reggie! to make the levels, which is free and looks polished. Great name, too.
posted by brett at 11:58 AM on June 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
If you have any interest in this, you really should play it. I can all but promise you won't regret it. Our most common criticism of it is that, if anything, it's a little too much like the original game. Which is really some criticism. The new stuff they added is a joy for any long-time Mario fan. (A remix from the Yoshi's Cookie soundtrack! I thought everyone else forgot about that game.)
I thought the provided installation instructions were reasonably clear, but admittedly I installed the Homebrew Channel years ago, so I might not be a representative audience.
Also of interest: they used a tool called Reggie! to make the levels, which is free and looks polished. Great name, too.
posted by brett at 11:58 AM on June 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
straight: The...the...what? It's really, really common for fanmade game mods to outshine the original commercial games.
It's not the same thing. It's....
Using the game's engine to make a different style of game? Sure, but you're not trying to one-up the game's developer, and the game's developer isn't fucking Nintendo, widely revered for their designs.
Most of the games you mention are PC games, where modding is a lot easier, and for some of those titles directly encouraged. And even then, most mods, even the popular ones, are really not up to the professionalism of the official product, and certainly don't touch the game's actual code.
The Newer SMBW guys took the long way around in a number of surprising and awesome ways here. They even hacked the title screen to add an animation to the "new" part, changing it to "newer", and change the opening scene depending on how far the player has gotten! That's great attention to detail, far beyond the call of duty, and exactly the kind of touch Nintendo themselves would add if they had thought of it.
posted by JHarris at 12:27 PM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
It's not the same thing. It's....
Using the game's engine to make a different style of game? Sure, but you're not trying to one-up the game's developer, and the game's developer isn't fucking Nintendo, widely revered for their designs.
Most of the games you mention are PC games, where modding is a lot easier, and for some of those titles directly encouraged. And even then, most mods, even the popular ones, are really not up to the professionalism of the official product, and certainly don't touch the game's actual code.
The Newer SMBW guys took the long way around in a number of surprising and awesome ways here. They even hacked the title screen to add an animation to the "new" part, changing it to "newer", and change the opening scene depending on how far the player has gotten! That's great attention to detail, far beyond the call of duty, and exactly the kind of touch Nintendo themselves would add if they had thought of it.
posted by JHarris at 12:27 PM on June 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
("certainly" might be overstating things, re: changing code, but it's true that once you start changing executables you're getting a lot more in-depth than if you just change assets.)
posted by JHarris at 12:28 PM on June 15, 2013
posted by JHarris at 12:28 PM on June 15, 2013
I need this. HOWEVER. I cannot get the Letterbomb site to respond at all! Help?
posted by capnsue at 12:36 PM on June 15, 2013
posted by capnsue at 12:36 PM on June 15, 2013
It might have gone down from demand from Wii users wanting to play this hack, maybe? Try again later. Alternatively, if you happen to have one of several disk games, you can install the Homebrew Channel using one of those.
posted by JHarris at 12:43 PM on June 15, 2013
posted by JHarris at 12:43 PM on June 15, 2013
Some patching alchemy and I've got a .wbfs package rolling. Played halfway through Level 1 and I am very, very impressed. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend. Can't imagine the amount of work that went into this - the custom soundtrack is excellent.
Way better than earlier NSMB homebrew (Du Super Mario Bros, etc.) Only the first boss battle showed its seams as a homebrew project.
posted by porn in the woods at 12:43 PM on June 15, 2013
Way better than earlier NSMB homebrew (Du Super Mario Bros, etc.) Only the first boss battle showed its seams as a homebrew project.
posted by porn in the woods at 12:43 PM on June 15, 2013
MetaFilter: how long I gotta holler til this happens
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:08 PM on June 15, 2013
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:08 PM on June 15, 2013
Really loving the nods to the excellent New Super Mario Bros. DS - this hits the spot! Between this, next week's DLC for NSMB U, and Super Mario 3D World out in December, gaming's good for Mario addicts like me.
posted by porn in the woods at 3:33 PM on June 15, 2013
posted by porn in the woods at 3:33 PM on June 15, 2013
JHarris, it's true that it's somewhat more impressive hacking a console game (although PC hackers do similar stuff all the time as well, for instance Minecraft which doesn't officially support mods and which has to be cracked anew every time Mojang releases a new version, or the hackers who figured out how to put Mario and a brand new Rainbow Road stage into Sonic Generations, and imported the entire game of Sonic Unleashed -- never released for PC -- into the PC Sonic Generations engine.)
And it's also true that there's not a lot of fan-made knock-offs of games like Mario, Zelda, Castlevania, that approach the quality of the originals (much less surpass them, as often happens in the PC modding scene).
But the idea that there's a stigma that fanmade = bad still seems pretty bizarre to me in a world where easily half my favorite gaming experiences have come from the work of modders and hobbyist game creators.
posted by straight at 7:25 PM on June 15, 2013
And it's also true that there's not a lot of fan-made knock-offs of games like Mario, Zelda, Castlevania, that approach the quality of the originals (much less surpass them, as often happens in the PC modding scene).
But the idea that there's a stigma that fanmade = bad still seems pretty bizarre to me in a world where easily half my favorite gaming experiences have come from the work of modders and hobbyist game creators.
posted by straight at 7:25 PM on June 15, 2013
and Super Mario 3D World out in December, gaming's good for Mario addicts like me.
When I saw that the classic four from SMB2 were playable, even Peach with her trademark float-jump, which bizarrely doesn't appear in half the cases when she's playable -- yes in Smash Bros., no in Super Princess Peach, etc. Not even to mention that she got snubbed in the whole New Super Mario Bros. series in favor of a second Toad, like WTF?
Honestly, it's like there's never any reason in SMB2 to not pick either Peach (for precision) or Luigi (for jump height and distance). Hm, maybe that's why Nintendo doesn't include an un-nerfed, playable Peach often -- she'd kick everyone's asses!
But the idea that there's a stigma that fanmade = bad still seems pretty bizarre to me in a world where easily half my favorite gaming experiences have come from the work of modders and hobbyist game creators.
I should probably clarify. It's not an overt stigma, it's an underlying assumption that people generally don't recognize long enough to speak of. It's like -- if they could do it this well for free, why aren't they looking to get paid? The main justification to making things difficult to mod is basically: we already do it better than you can. And most of the time, for Nintendo, that's true.
In the PC world, the focus (at least back in the Doom and Quake days when modding kicked off) tends to be on technical issues. Not that there aren't some great map designs, but id Software tends to be respected most for its engines.
Nintendo tends to be respected more for game design. While I wouldn't call these levels indistinguishable from Nintendo's own, they are very good. As I said, not too easy, not too hard, just fun to run and bop through in a visceral way. That's really hard to do.
Game design is still regarded as something of a black art; Miyamoto just sort of does a lot of things very right, things that even now people are still working on recognizing. That's the thing Nintendo has always had on their side, and I think it justified some of their corporate attitude, where they've always been reluctant to build off of outside work.
posted by JHarris at 7:59 PM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
When I saw that the classic four from SMB2 were playable, even Peach with her trademark float-jump, which bizarrely doesn't appear in half the cases when she's playable -- yes in Smash Bros., no in Super Princess Peach, etc. Not even to mention that she got snubbed in the whole New Super Mario Bros. series in favor of a second Toad, like WTF?
Honestly, it's like there's never any reason in SMB2 to not pick either Peach (for precision) or Luigi (for jump height and distance). Hm, maybe that's why Nintendo doesn't include an un-nerfed, playable Peach often -- she'd kick everyone's asses!
But the idea that there's a stigma that fanmade = bad still seems pretty bizarre to me in a world where easily half my favorite gaming experiences have come from the work of modders and hobbyist game creators.
I should probably clarify. It's not an overt stigma, it's an underlying assumption that people generally don't recognize long enough to speak of. It's like -- if they could do it this well for free, why aren't they looking to get paid? The main justification to making things difficult to mod is basically: we already do it better than you can. And most of the time, for Nintendo, that's true.
In the PC world, the focus (at least back in the Doom and Quake days when modding kicked off) tends to be on technical issues. Not that there aren't some great map designs, but id Software tends to be respected most for its engines.
Nintendo tends to be respected more for game design. While I wouldn't call these levels indistinguishable from Nintendo's own, they are very good. As I said, not too easy, not too hard, just fun to run and bop through in a visceral way. That's really hard to do.
Game design is still regarded as something of a black art; Miyamoto just sort of does a lot of things very right, things that even now people are still working on recognizing. That's the thing Nintendo has always had on their side, and I think it justified some of their corporate attitude, where they've always been reluctant to build off of outside work.
posted by JHarris at 7:59 PM on June 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
Well, this has convinced me to install the Homebrew channel - as soon as hackmii.com is back up... well this, and the apparent ability to stream videos off my media server!?! Very psyched to look into everything that Homebrew has to offer.
posted by deliquescent at 8:34 PM on June 15, 2013
posted by deliquescent at 8:34 PM on June 15, 2013
Can I get Newer installed on my Wii without whatever voodoo magic please.hackmii.com supplies? JHarris suggests you can install Homebrew Channel with a game disc; does that get you to the same place so you can go ahead and install Newer?
Cause I let the kids know this was possible and now the Cranky Whiny Daaaaaad-O-Meter is at Defcon 4.
Oh and Happy Father's Day.
posted by sacre_bleu at 6:39 AM on June 16, 2013
Cause I let the kids know this was possible and now the Cranky Whiny Daaaaaad-O-Meter is at Defcon 4.
Oh and Happy Father's Day.
posted by sacre_bleu at 6:39 AM on June 16, 2013
sacre_bleu: You don't install it on your Wii, the game's files have to reside somewhere else.
You install the Homebrew Channel first (that is installed on your Wii). That's the only real modding you have to do and makes everything else possible. The basic way to do this is to have the game disk in the Wii and the Newer SMBW patch files on the SD card. Also on the SD card is the Riivolution program. You run that, specify to it the Newer file, and it applies it then runs New Super Mario Bros. Wii, substituting the patched files in real time.
All roads start with the Homebrew Channel. Get that installed first.
posted by JHarris at 9:11 AM on June 16, 2013
You install the Homebrew Channel first (that is installed on your Wii). That's the only real modding you have to do and makes everything else possible. The basic way to do this is to have the game disk in the Wii and the Newer SMBW patch files on the SD card. Also on the SD card is the Riivolution program. You run that, specify to it the Newer file, and it applies it then runs New Super Mario Bros. Wii, substituting the patched files in real time.
All roads start with the Homebrew Channel. Get that installed first.
posted by JHarris at 9:11 AM on June 16, 2013
Yes. Japanese companies tend to take a more relaxed attitude regarding fans reusing their intellectual property, though. It's mostly American companies that threaten lawsuits and ruination on their fans.Sure, just look at Sony. (that was sarcasm)
Anyway, you need to own both a Nintendo console and the original game, so it's not like Nintendo loses any money here, all this does is add value to the game, and might make more people go out and buy it. Why would they send a C&D?
Game companies get a lot of value overall from fans modifying things, on the PC you'll even see companies release entire dev kits just to get people to mod their games.
The other thing is that even if they didn't like this, sending a C&D letter would generate a huge backlash in the gaming world, there's no way it would be worth it for them to try it.
posted by delmoi at 9:50 AM on June 16, 2013
Super Mario 3D World
I was really, really disappointed in Super Mario 3D Land for the 3DS; I played the hell out of Mario 64 back in the day and was hoping for something like that, but instead of the worlds to explore in Mario 64, it was just a sequence of obstacle courses. Imagine for a moment if literally every level in Mario 64 were a Bowser level, and that's what 3D Land is like. It felt like such a huge step backward- as if Mario 64 had been a direct sequel plus 3D to the 2D games, and not a series of places. There isn't a single Mario 3D Land level that has anything resembling a sense of place, and in a world where Mario 64 exists, that's really sad.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:57 AM on June 16, 2013
I was really, really disappointed in Super Mario 3D Land for the 3DS; I played the hell out of Mario 64 back in the day and was hoping for something like that, but instead of the worlds to explore in Mario 64, it was just a sequence of obstacle courses. Imagine for a moment if literally every level in Mario 64 were a Bowser level, and that's what 3D Land is like. It felt like such a huge step backward- as if Mario 64 had been a direct sequel plus 3D to the 2D games, and not a series of places. There isn't a single Mario 3D Land level that has anything resembling a sense of place, and in a world where Mario 64 exists, that's really sad.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:57 AM on June 16, 2013
delmoi: Why would they send a C&D?Because they believe it eats into the market for the Wii U, New Super Mario Bros Wii U, and associated DLC; and they believe it dilutes the Mario trademark.
The other thing is that even if they didn't like this, sending a C&D letter would generate a huge backlash in the gaming worldThe usual blogs and news sites will post about it; and then what? Will anybody buy fewer Nintendo products because of it? Other game companies like EA and Blizzard have shown time and again that they're unafraid of any market consequences for flexing some legal muscle.
I don't like this state of affairs. I've been buying fewer video games in part because of it. But I can't say I share your optimism. I think the question to ask about Nintendo's C&D is not if, but when.
posted by brett at 12:19 PM on June 16, 2013
Because they believe it eats into the market for the Wii U, New Super Mario Bros Wii U, and associated DLC; and they believe it dilutes the Mario trademark.How? Did you miss the part where you have to own the game to play the expansion? Yes, I realize you only need the Wii game, but it seems unlikely that anyone except a superfan is going to download and install this, the kind of person who will probably buy a Wii U and nSMB_U anyway.
Let's break down your argument here - the claim is that the existence of this game will somehow cost Nintendo sales, but that somehow C&Ding it out of existence won't
Think about it this way, there are basically four groups of people who this game's existence could affect:
1) People who already own a Wii and nSMB
2) People who already own a Wii but don't have nSMB
3) People who own neither the Wii or nSMB
4) People who would be pissed off if Nintendo were to shut this down. With a C&D
Now, if the expansion is out there, how will it affect the various groups, if they care at all? For people in group 3, they'll be more likely to buy a Wii U since the Wii U can also play this game and the expansion, so Nintendo will make money.
For people in group 2, They'll be more likely to go out and buy nSMB - so more money for Nintendo.
Only people in group 1, maybe if they're totally dying for more SMB, will put off a purchase of a Wii U and nSMB_U to play this game instead. It seems to me that this is only a tiny slice of group one. (Let's call it group '1x').
It seems to me the amount of extra money Nintendo gets from groups 2 and 3 is going to be a lot more then group 1. Plus, it serves as publicity for the game and platform. I wasn't even aware of these games until just now, for example, and I played 2-D Mario games as a kid.
And then there's group 4.
Will anybody buy fewer Nintendo products because of it?Yes?
What doesn't make much sense about your argument is that you're assuming, somehow the number of people in group 1 who chose not to buy a Wii U or nSMB_U entirely because they can play this instead is larger then the number of people who will be turned off by Nintendo acting like a dick and preventing people from distributing fan-made expansions.
It's not a question of people who really want the new system, but rather people who are maybe a little interested, and this news will be just enough to prevent them from tipping over into the 'meh, I guess I'll buy it' group.
On the other hand, people who go through the trouble of installing and playing this game are going to be much more in love with it, and therefore much less likely to be 'tipped' into not buying the next console.
Finally, the main point is that it's completely ridiculous to say that the number of people who will somehow not buy a Wii U just because this game exists and they can play it instead of upgrading is a bigger number then the number of people who might be turned off from buying a Wii U if Nintendo acts like an asshole to it's own hardest-core fans. I just don't get how you can say that group '1x' is large enough for Nintendo to care, and that group '4' isn't. It seems obvious it's the other way around.
Other game companies like EA and Blizzard have shown time and again that they're unafraid of any market consequences for flexing some legal muscle.EA and Blizzard cater to the hard-core gaming market that's going to be willing to put up with some b.s. to get the games. That said I don't really know much about what EA has done, but Blizzard has gone after people who release hacks for their multiplayer clients - like Maphacks in Starcraft II, if you look at the forums people are generally supportive of those movies since they detract from the game experience. I don't know about WoW or any of their other titles, although I think I remember hearing something about
Most PC game companies actually encourage people to come up with new levels and mods, including Blizzard when it comes to SC2, they actually include a map editor right on the game disk.
posted by delmoi at 1:38 PM on June 16, 2013
Making mods is, in fact, one of the better ways to get a job in the gaming industry, since 99% of getting hired is showing that you can do the job.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:58 PM on June 16, 2013
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:58 PM on June 16, 2013
Anyway, you need to own both a Nintendo console and the original game, so it's not like Nintendo loses any money here, all this does is add value to the game, and might make more people go out and buy it. Why would they send a C&D?
When fans went out and almost finished a startlingly high quality fighting game using characters from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, Hasbro stomped on them hard. They also C&D'd MeFi's own XQUZYPHYR's homebrew Magic The Gathering set based on the characters. Hasbro was losing no money from these projects, and in fact they served to amplify the already rather ludicrous obsession with the show. Their actions almost certainly drove away a good portion of the fanbase. But sometimes, when you're an executive of a huge corporation hearing that the fans have had the temerity to do something original with your intellectual property, kicking over their sandcastles is its own reward.
Of course Japanese corporate culture is different from American, and Nintendo's culture is more unique still (a programmer rose up through the ranks to become president), but I wouldn't put it past any corporation. I'm coming to suspect that that structure exists entirely to insulate executives from humane concerns, so I'm no longer surprised whenever a big company does something anti-social just because.
posted by JHarris at 2:46 PM on June 16, 2013
When fans went out and almost finished a startlingly high quality fighting game using characters from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, Hasbro stomped on them hard. They also C&D'd MeFi's own XQUZYPHYR's homebrew Magic The Gathering set based on the characters. Hasbro was losing no money from these projects, and in fact they served to amplify the already rather ludicrous obsession with the show. Their actions almost certainly drove away a good portion of the fanbase. But sometimes, when you're an executive of a huge corporation hearing that the fans have had the temerity to do something original with your intellectual property, kicking over their sandcastles is its own reward.
Of course Japanese corporate culture is different from American, and Nintendo's culture is more unique still (a programmer rose up through the ranks to become president), but I wouldn't put it past any corporation. I'm coming to suspect that that structure exists entirely to insulate executives from humane concerns, so I'm no longer surprised whenever a big company does something anti-social just because.
posted by JHarris at 2:46 PM on June 16, 2013
Hackmii is back up, for anyone else who's been waiting on it!
posted by jason_steakums at 2:54 PM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by jason_steakums at 2:54 PM on June 16, 2013 [1 favorite]
TO argue against my own comment:
I think the question to ask about Nintendo's C&D is not if, but when.
Neither is it certain that they will. There have long been hacks for Nintendo's games publicly available that they haven't done anything about. They might, but it's not certain.
posted by JHarris at 2:56 PM on June 16, 2013
I think the question to ask about Nintendo's C&D is not if, but when.
Neither is it certain that they will. There have long been hacks for Nintendo's games publicly available that they haven't done anything about. They might, but it's not certain.
posted by JHarris at 2:56 PM on June 16, 2013
my god it's full of stars
(Thanks JHarris and of course the entire Newer team.)
Took 15 minutes. For free. This Internet thingy has some potential.
posted by sacre_bleu at 5:43 PM on June 16, 2013
(Thanks JHarris and of course the entire Newer team.)
Took 15 minutes. For free. This Internet thingy has some potential.
posted by sacre_bleu at 5:43 PM on June 16, 2013
Man after all that waiting for Hackmii to come back up, I've tried three times wiping & reinstalling the game on the SD card and it just won't load. Letterbomb works, Riivolution works, but when I click "launch" it just loads the regular game.
posted by anazgnos at 7:16 PM on June 16, 2013
posted by anazgnos at 7:16 PM on June 16, 2013
For all readers: please MeMail me if you need a hand getting this to work and have Homebrew Channel installed.
posted by porn in the woods at 7:49 PM on June 16, 2013
posted by porn in the woods at 7:49 PM on June 16, 2013
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*click* Tell me more about how to install.
If there's some way to get self-made content onto a Wii that doesn't involve potentially screwing the machine up, I'd love to hear it.
posted by DU at 2:43 AM on June 15, 2013