Poor Man's Pappy
December 14, 2013 10:40 AM Subscribe
Pappy Van Winkle, the white whale of bourbons, uses the same mash bill, spirit, and barrels as a cheaper, considerably easier-to-find bourbon (previously). When you mix that with yet another, even cheaper (but higher proof) bourbon, you get a whiskey that tastes pretty damn close to the highly-coveted PVW 15.
My office holiday party was at a local gastropub earlier this week. There is a small cabal of people at work who really, really like bourbon and whisk(e)y, and one sent out an email before the party noting that this pub had just acquired a selection of PVW.
Two of the most senior in this cabal ordered four to share amongst us - the rye, the 12-year, the 15-year, and the 20. The consensus was that we liked the rye the best, then the 15, and then the 12. The 20 was declared unremarkable. Personally, I'm happy to love Booker's and other good bourbons and ryes that are gettable by ordinary mortals like me.
posted by rtha at 11:05 AM on December 14, 2013
Two of the most senior in this cabal ordered four to share amongst us - the rye, the 12-year, the 15-year, and the 20. The consensus was that we liked the rye the best, then the 15, and then the 12. The 20 was declared unremarkable. Personally, I'm happy to love Booker's and other good bourbons and ryes that are gettable by ordinary mortals like me.
posted by rtha at 11:05 AM on December 14, 2013
The last time I was able to buy any PVW, about 2 years ago, the liquor stores in Boston were allocating it (a bottle or two to their best customers, mostly), but not charging an abnormal premium for it. The 12 was $49.95, the 15 something like $75. I skipped the 23 because it seemed too expensive at over $100 (but less than $200 as I recall)
Only in the last year have I started seeing it for $500 or even $5000 a bottle.
posted by mr vino at 11:16 AM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Only in the last year have I started seeing it for $500 or even $5000 a bottle.
posted by mr vino at 11:16 AM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
While we're discussing bourbon...many that I've tried are a tad sweet for my taste (overall I generally prefer scotch), but sometimes they really hit the spot. However, certain ones have this aftertaste that I think of as "banana" - or perhaps more accurately, "artificial banana flavor". I'd like to avoid those brands as much as possible. Is anyone else familiar with the taste I'm trying to describe, and knows where it comes from (e.g. is it a specific type of grain being used) and how to avoid it?
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:32 AM on December 14, 2013
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:32 AM on December 14, 2013
I've unwittingly done this by alternating several glasses of the 12 and the antique over the course of an evening …am I a wizard?
posted by danny the boy at 11:44 AM on December 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by danny the boy at 11:44 AM on December 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Old Weller Antique is good stuff. My favorite is the 90 proof version of Old Fitzgerald, also a wheated product of the same Spitzel-Weller distillery. For an everyday bourbon I like George Dickel or when I can find it, Fighting Cock 103.
Never tried PVW. But I'm a scotch drinker mostly, and find all bourbon too sweet most of the time.
Banana (or banana bread) is a classic descriptor for Bourbon, by the way.
posted by spitbull at 11:47 AM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Never tried PVW. But I'm a scotch drinker mostly, and find all bourbon too sweet most of the time.
Banana (or banana bread) is a classic descriptor for Bourbon, by the way.
posted by spitbull at 11:47 AM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Greg_Ace, pretty sure you mean this compound which is an ester and I have always thought was a result of the kind of yeast used. . . since I can smell it in Belgian ales frequently. In whisky I mostly associate it with Jim Beam, which I actually don't mind. . . but since the scent is by nature a compound of an acid and alcohol it's probably pretty hard to categorically avoid. It's also the alarm pheromone for honeybees, incidentally.
posted by TheTingTangTong at 11:48 AM on December 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by TheTingTangTong at 11:48 AM on December 14, 2013 [2 favorites]
Old Weller Antique 107 by itself is an excellent product. Twenty bucks, same as in town, and absolutely delicious. It's now the bang-for-buck top choice and house bourbon at our whisky tasting society. When it comes to the pricier stuff I'll take a George T Stagg over a Pappy any day. Both are so hard to come by unfortunately. K&L here in CA actually raffles of the right to purchase those and a few other bottles they only get a few off every year.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:56 AM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:56 AM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
As a 30 year bourbon drinker who's got a dozen whiskys in my cabinet at any given time, i am thrilled that the recent hipness of american spirits has made a wonderful variety of cask strength, small batch, hard to get and even immature bourbons available to me like never before.
the fetishization of PVW was inevitable, and I am certain that this too will pass as aged rums become the next big thing.
the advantage, as others have noted, to the value of PVW is that there is only so much of the original pre-buffalo trace stuff out there.
I'm a fan of Elijah Craig, Four Roses Small batch and Woodford Reserve, but tend toward scotch if I want to sip whisky.
Auchentoshan 3 wood is my current fave.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:56 AM on December 14, 2013
the fetishization of PVW was inevitable, and I am certain that this too will pass as aged rums become the next big thing.
the advantage, as others have noted, to the value of PVW is that there is only so much of the original pre-buffalo trace stuff out there.
I'm a fan of Elijah Craig, Four Roses Small batch and Woodford Reserve, but tend toward scotch if I want to sip whisky.
Auchentoshan 3 wood is my current fave.
posted by OHenryPacey at 11:56 AM on December 14, 2013
BANANAS!!! I've been saying this for years and most people act surprised when I mention it. Then they sample some cheap stuff and note it, as well. It's made it impossible for me to drink inexpensive 'whiskey'-slash-'bourbon' and Belgian whites are completely anathema. Nice to know what's causing it so the next time I can drop that tidbit of knowledge.
posted by artof.mulata at 12:16 PM on December 14, 2013
posted by artof.mulata at 12:16 PM on December 14, 2013
TheTingTangTong: ... it's probably pretty hard to categorically avoid.
And yet, some bourbons have it and some don't. I'd still love to know what the deciding factor is - it doesn't seem to be price.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:18 PM on December 14, 2013
And yet, some bourbons have it and some don't. I'd still love to know what the deciding factor is - it doesn't seem to be price.
posted by Greg_Ace at 12:18 PM on December 14, 2013
Does anyone know where to get Weller Antique in the SF Bay Area?
For those of you who find bourbon too sweet, you should really try a good rye.
posted by mikeand1 at 12:24 PM on December 14, 2013
For those of you who find bourbon too sweet, you should really try a good rye.
posted by mikeand1 at 12:24 PM on December 14, 2013
My point was that the banana bread notes are found in excellent bourbons and the note is considered classic, like caramel. There are hundreds of bourbon/banana recipes that are traditional by now.
One may not like the flavor but it is not at all diagnostic of cheap or bad bourbon.
posted by spitbull at 12:29 PM on December 14, 2013
One may not like the flavor but it is not at all diagnostic of cheap or bad bourbon.
posted by spitbull at 12:29 PM on December 14, 2013
Woot! I am a trendsetter. I have been drinking aged rums since I was a little kid. My mother comes from a sugarcane family (more ejido than plantation), I grew up with everything from 95% cane alcohol to aguardiente to barrel aged rums.
I had an uncle, dead now for many years, who after losing his eyesight in a distillery accident became a professional spirit taster. His party trick was to get someone to put a single drop of coca cola in a liter of rum. He would taste five or six rums and find the altered one.
The best thing for the scientifically and sibaritycally inclined nephews was his case of extracts. It was full of small unlabeled dropper bottles filled with his collection of bought and made natural extracts. You would letbhim try your spirit. He would take plain grain alcohol, mix some water in and add a few drops of this and that, and the end result would be a very close replica. He turned bottles of vodka into Chivas for my grandma, and turned white Bacardi into 12 year old aged Guatemalan rum.
I have not been to a good rum shop in ages, so all I have right now is a 23 year old Zacapa and an 18 Flor de Caña from the duty free. Unsuprisingly, one can mix older and youger rums to achieve a rum that tastes like one that costs several times more than the original ingredients. That is how solera rums are made. Lately I have been adding a little bit of inexpensive cachaça to the flor the caña, and the sweet dirty vegetable flavors of the cheap rum make the whole thing better for me.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 12:37 PM on December 14, 2013 [39 favorites]
I had an uncle, dead now for many years, who after losing his eyesight in a distillery accident became a professional spirit taster. His party trick was to get someone to put a single drop of coca cola in a liter of rum. He would taste five or six rums and find the altered one.
The best thing for the scientifically and sibaritycally inclined nephews was his case of extracts. It was full of small unlabeled dropper bottles filled with his collection of bought and made natural extracts. You would letbhim try your spirit. He would take plain grain alcohol, mix some water in and add a few drops of this and that, and the end result would be a very close replica. He turned bottles of vodka into Chivas for my grandma, and turned white Bacardi into 12 year old aged Guatemalan rum.
I have not been to a good rum shop in ages, so all I have right now is a 23 year old Zacapa and an 18 Flor de Caña from the duty free. Unsuprisingly, one can mix older and youger rums to achieve a rum that tastes like one that costs several times more than the original ingredients. That is how solera rums are made. Lately I have been adding a little bit of inexpensive cachaça to the flor the caña, and the sweet dirty vegetable flavors of the cheap rum make the whole thing better for me.
posted by Doroteo Arango II at 12:37 PM on December 14, 2013 [39 favorites]
Greg_Ace, my suggestion is that it is the strain of yeast used to ferment the mash that causes the variability in isoamyl acetate levels. While I cannot find any information on distilled liquor, this page on esters in beer seems to support that hypothesis (and temperature seems to be related).
posted by TheTingTangTong at 12:39 PM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by TheTingTangTong at 12:39 PM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Looked it up... Banana seems to derive from certain yeast strains used to ferment the mash. Can't find details, but I'm sure the exact biochemistry is known. It's common in German beers too.
posted by spitbull at 12:43 PM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 12:43 PM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
Also, kickass aged rums in American shops: Rhum Barbancourt 15 yr Aged Reserve, or Goslings Black Seal.
Thank me later.
posted by spitbull at 12:45 PM on December 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Thank me later.
posted by spitbull at 12:45 PM on December 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
mikeand1: "Does anyone know where to get Weller Antique in the SF Bay Area?"
It's not that hard to find. K&L has it. My local speciality liquor store has it, but charges too much. Bevmo stocks several Wellers, but they were out of the 12 when I last went, and only had the special reserve.
posted by danny the boy at 12:49 PM on December 14, 2013
It's not that hard to find. K&L has it. My local speciality liquor store has it, but charges too much. Bevmo stocks several Wellers, but they were out of the 12 when I last went, and only had the special reserve.
posted by danny the boy at 12:49 PM on December 14, 2013
This is making me think that perhaps we're due for another Bay Area bourbon meetup.
posted by gingerbeer at 1:22 PM on December 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 1:22 PM on December 14, 2013 [4 favorites]
Is it time for my weekly Bourbon flashback already?
posted by mikelieman at 2:50 PM on December 14, 2013
posted by mikelieman at 2:50 PM on December 14, 2013
this has inspired me to get drunk, it's snowing like crazy here, why not
posted by Teakettle at 2:51 PM on December 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Teakettle at 2:51 PM on December 14, 2013 [3 favorites]
Funny, I haven't been able to find any Weller around Seattle either. PVW I've given up on until I find it in a bar somewhere and I'm feeling flush. And...bourbon meetups? Brilliant. Anyone up for one around here?
posted by sapere aude at 3:35 PM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by sapere aude at 3:35 PM on December 14, 2013 [1 favorite]
I'm in!
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:12 PM on December 15, 2013
posted by OHenryPacey at 12:12 PM on December 15, 2013
This is all well & good as far as bourbon is concerned, but does anybody know how to do something similar with scotch?
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:44 PM on December 15, 2013
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:44 PM on December 15, 2013
What, to make it taste like a trendy bourbon?
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:10 PM on December 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:10 PM on December 15, 2013 [1 favorite]
No, I got that part: just add some sugar & banana ester.
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:32 PM on December 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 8:32 PM on December 15, 2013 [2 favorites]
In that case, take some Dewar's and throw in a healthy dollop of Liquid Smoke and a drop or two of iodine tincture - hey presto, Ardbeg!
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:47 PM on December 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:47 PM on December 15, 2013 [3 favorites]
« Older In the City of Brotherly Love ... | Unusual weather Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 10:46 AM on December 14, 2013 [9 favorites]