Join 3,496 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)


Looks like I'm moving to North Dakota...
February 11, 2014 10:39 PM   Subscribe

National unemployment is high, but business is booming in some states. Vermont needs teachers. Nevada needs bartenders. North Dakota needs truck drivers and just about everything else. Is your job in another state?
posted by marbb (73 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite

 
I might be moving to Montana soon.
posted by this is a thing at 10:44 PM on February 11 [7 favorites]


According to them, my job is nowhere.
posted by klangklangston at 10:48 PM on February 11 [16 favorites]


Huh! Well, at least I know where North Dakota is now.
posted by ominous_paws at 10:58 PM on February 11 [2 favorites]


It looks like things are tough all over for people in humanities, though, since the only job in the category "Arts/Entertainment/Publishing" is "Designer" (and apparently Utah is thirsting for design, but on examination the jobs include UX Designer, Salon Designer, which appears to be the new term for hairdresser, and Roof Truss Designer, which should actually be under "Engineer/Architect" from the description.)

I think the problem here is that the categories (and the geographical data and denominators) are drawn from BLS, which uses the Standard Occupational Classification system, but the job postings are drawn from Indeed.com, which uses the job titles that employers give them.
posted by gingerest at 11:03 PM on February 11 [10 favorites]


Also, no one (except North Dakota) wants cooks (because, Indeed), though craiglist is usually lousy with ads for kitchen staff, and the per 100k number doesn't reflect the ratio of likely (qualified) applicants to vacancies. It's a good rough index, though, for sure, neat to see.
posted by cotton dress sock at 11:10 PM on February 11


Did anyone else have trouble finding flâneur?
posted by b1tr0t at 11:33 PM on February 11 [16 favorites]


Did anyone else have trouble finding flâneur?

You want http://www.ismyjobinanotherfrance.com/
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:42 PM on February 11 [17 favorites]


North Dakota needs truck drivers

Maybe not a good idea
posted by hellojed at 11:44 PM on February 11 [2 favorites]


On my Android phone, the list of job categories was empty, so my prospects look grim.
posted by maryr at 11:59 PM on February 11 [1 favorite]


Sounds like there's an opening for an Android developer
posted by fullerine at 1:01 AM on February 12 [18 favorites]


BTW, don't take a flâneur job if you're a boulevardier - not even temporarily, to see you through a dry patch.
posted by Segundus at 1:42 AM on February 12 [6 favorites]


...wow. Actually, I think mine is, if I stay in my old field. I'm not thrillingly happy as an accountant but a huge part of my problem was that where I live, jobs are extremely thin on the ground and the pay is lousy, after years of having been promised in school that things were going to be fantastic. And it is in fact a light-colored spot. Several of the reddest states? Places that I have family and would be quite happy to live.

I'm pretty sure it can be trusted in this case because 'accountant' is unlikely to ever be code for anything else. Salon Accountant, Roof Truss Accountant, Software Accountant, yup, all still accountants. I don't think it'd ever occurred to me that this would actually be a job that could vary so wildly.
posted by Sequence at 1:59 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Why the fuck does North Dakota need anyone at all, I fondly ask, but Google, to prevent that murmur, soon replies:
California back on growth path, but North Dakota sets the pace
[December 30, 2013]

North Dakota’s population boom, driven by the state’s thriving oil and gas industry, continued in 2013, expanding at nearly twice the rate of the next-fastest-growing state, according to new census estimates released Monday. [...]

North Dakota’s population stood at 723,393 on July 1, according to the census data, a 3.1% increase from 2012. Since the 2010 census, North Dakota’s population has grown 7.6%, far outpacing the national growth rate of 2.4% during that period. [...]
So if you are a professional in a basic service that everyone needs, it looks like North Dakota is (for now, anyway) the place to go.
posted by pracowity at 2:13 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


I think this is my cold weather-angered brain reacting, as well as my anger at fracking, and I really mean no disrespect to the people of N.D., who probably have more moxie than I do, but fuck North Dakota, maaaaaan
posted by angrycat at 3:48 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


No category for social scientists... or just plain scientists... or even "research"... phooey.
posted by psoas at 4:03 AM on February 12 [4 favorites]


Scientists are categorized under Engineering/Architecture. I couldn't find "physical oceanographer" though unfortunately.
posted by oceanjesse at 4:12 AM on February 12 [2 favorites]


They don't seem to list journalism, but I can't imagine that the center for that would be anywhere but NYC or DC.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 4:18 AM on February 12


"Marketing manager" brings up a lot of "product manager" jobs, which is not really the same thing at all.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:21 AM on February 12


They don't even have 'Architect' under Engineering/Architecture so I guess my job is nowhere. I've already kind of figured that out.
posted by Flashman at 4:23 AM on February 12 [2 favorites]


I wonder if this might be the high tech version of the California leaflets in The Grapes of Wrath...
posted by jim in austin at 4:28 AM on February 12 [19 favorites]


They don't even have 'Architect' under Engineering/Architecture so I guess my job is nowhere. I've already kind of figured that out.

Just learn Revit. It's surprising how few people actually know how to use it.
posted by KokuRyu at 4:30 AM on February 12 [3 favorites]


The IT stuff is all around DC/MD and VA because they use categories that nobody else uses but the federal government and government contractors.
posted by empath at 4:42 AM on February 12 [2 favorites]


I suspected the demand for scientists was declining in North Dakota when my CV kept being returned with tractor tire marks all over it.
posted by waving at 5:04 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Huh! Well, at least I know where North Dakota is now.

Not worth going there.

Just....

Don't.
posted by entropone at 5:21 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


North Dakota’s population stood at 723,393 on July 1, according to the census data, a 3.1% increase from 2012. Since the 2010 census, North Dakota’s population has grown 7.6%, far outpacing the national growth rate of 2.4% during that period.

So, they have 1/4th the population of the city of Chicago, yet they get two senators.

And while they're growing, they'll shrink just as fast once the oil is gone.
posted by eriko at 5:25 AM on February 12 [7 favorites]


Not worth going there.

Just....

Don't.


Unless, of course, you want a job...
posted by Dip Flash at 5:25 AM on February 12



I might be moving to Montana soon.

I hear they need dental floss tycoons.
posted by hell toupee at 5:39 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


So, they have 1/4th the population of the city of Chicago, yet they get two senators.

That's the entire point of the senate.
posted by ocherdraco at 5:43 AM on February 12 [30 favorites]


dey durk er flaneurs
posted by mhoye at 5:53 AM on February 12 [7 favorites]


I just recently was up there for work. I got the last hotel room available in Williston on a Tuesday night and paid $450, so be prepared to live in your car. Even the man camps are full. As an example, Williston went from 3000 people to 13000 in five years and is expected to hit 30000 in five more, this on infrastructure for 3000. Why not grow the infrastructure you ask? Because who would build it and where would THEY live? Why would anyone take a $15 an hour construction job when they can drive a gravel truck for $80 an hour?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 5:57 AM on February 12 [2 favorites]


So, they have 1/4th the population of the city of Chicago, yet they get two senators.

That's the entire point of the senate.


What ocherdraco said. Also, as a resident of DC, Chicagoans can kiss our taxed but unrepresented booties.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 5:59 AM on February 12 [5 favorites]


It was -2 in central Michigan this morning, so if "my job" is anywhere north of here, I really don't give a fuck, thanks.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:10 AM on February 12 [4 favorites]


Just learn Revit. It's surprising how few people actually know how to use it.

Well, Revit isn't one of those things that I'd classify as something you can "just learn". Taking a series of classes won't get you job (ask me how I know!). You'd probably need at least a year's practical experience to even get looked at, but most jobs in my area ask for three years and ask for experience in a particular market sector, and that's assuming the have the knowledge already to put the right kinds of walls in the right places. There's a lot less competition than there is for AutoCAD jobs (over 100 applicants most places I've interviewed) but it's still not a guarantee.
posted by LionIndex at 6:28 AM on February 12 [2 favorites]


They don't even have 'Architect' under Engineering/Architecture so I guess my job is nowhere.

Best I can tell they don't have Lawyer at all.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:31 AM on February 12



And while they're growing, they'll shrink just as fast once the oil is gone.


Faster. I recently moved to the western slope of Colorado and judging from the real estate market (~24 months of inventory, lots of foreclosures and short sales) things were pretty good here.

Then 2008 happened. The big oil companies just up and pulled the plug one day and 30k people were unemployed just like that. The 1500 sq ft 1/2 duplex (garage, fenced yard, nice place) I am renting for 800 a month from a guy who bought it for 240k in 2006. He's not even making enough from rent to cover the mortgage, but at least he's got something - Half the places in this subdivision are for rent.

So yeah, move to ND for the jobs. Just remember it's a game of hot potato and you don't want to be the one searching for a chair when the music dies.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:33 AM on February 12 [3 favorites]


So if you are a professional in a basic service that everyone needs, it looks like North Dakota is (for now, anyway) the place to go.

If you want to live in a polluted crime-ridden hellhole where the cost of housing is as high as Manhattan, sure.
posted by aught at 6:40 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Ahem...I live within a fifty mile radius of the hellhole that is Williston North Dakota. I grew up here, got my edumacation at NDSU in Fargo and spent almost twenty years outside the state. There are a lot like me that have moved back. And yes, we have a significant population boom that includes a lot of people looking for work and a fair amount of the scum of the earth (at least the sub-zero winter chases some of them away). That always happens with an oil boom. But the towns around here are hemorrhaging just about anyone close to retirement age because they're the ones that can afford to move out. Living in this boom isn't easy. The small town way of life is being crushed under a filthy oil-soaked steel-toed workboot.

Jobs are a plenty but the needs are specific. The oil industry is a carnivore, eating up the labor force and chewing them out. What they want is men in their 20s-30s, able to stand the physical demands of the work. The young hotshot driver in that article posted above should be moving to driving a rig for one of the big carriers like Power Fuels or Key. You make an insane amount of money but you will be facing down a 70 hour work week. And yes, there is no place to live. We blew by full capacity a couple years ago. Apartment complexes and McMansions are springing up in Williston, Watford City, Tioga...but at some point the drilling will stop (in about ten years) and then it will be nothing but well maintenance. The royalties will still flow but I would hate to be owning a rental property about then.

And for crying out loud (say that in a William H Macy accent), enough with the bitching about fracking. Fracking out here is far different than what is happening in the East. In fact, it's the least of our issues. They're boring down 10000 feet in what is insanely secure pipe. We're not seeing natural gas coming out of our drinking water and never will. I get real tired of people applying the problems seen in the East to the drilling in the West.

That said, oil companies (except for maybe Statoil) are lying, cheating, corrupt pencil dicks with the purity of soul only found in men like Putin. They build shitty pipelines, they conspire to screw landowners and mineral rights owners, they run trains 90 cars long carrying extremely flammable products over rail lines that were swollen with freight before this all started, they treat their employees like crap, they back and buy politicians of the worst sort, they care nothing about the land they're pillaging, and when they get what they came here for, they will leave without a second thought to all the rusty buildings and equipment left in their wake. We've got problems we've never had before: human trafficking, organized crime, gangs, violent crime. Meth is back and it was chased out of this state over a decade ago.

In the mean time, we need teachers, law enforcement, medical personnel, IT, waitstaff, cooks, hotel maids, oh it's a long list. But there's no place for those lower paying jobs to live because landlords think everyone, no matter what their profession, is getting a $100 a day living expense (common on oil rigs, not common anywhere else). So we're fucked. The only thing for most natives to do is ride it out and be thankful if you owned your own house and have a stable job. Or if you have the royalties, move out and never come back.
posted by Ber at 6:46 AM on February 12 [38 favorites]


The Elm Coulie field in the Bakken alone has another 13 years of production in it. The Parshall field has just been tapped and it has about half of the EC and then you've got Stanley, Ross, Mondak, Sanish, and every untapped thing in between and that's just in North Dakota.

So, yeah, hot potato, sure, but you've got at least a decade of $100 million a month pure profit until you have to worry about that.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 6:46 AM on February 12


That's nothing, I hear Mars needs Moms.
posted by The Whelk at 6:47 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


> As it happens, we can’t all be winners. Not even in a boomtown.

WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA, NYT???
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:01 AM on February 12


They don't even have 'Architect' under Engineering/Architecture so I guess my job is nowhere. I've already kind of figured that out.

Just learn Revit. It's surprising how few people actually know how to use it.


most architecture jobs i've found are listed on archinect or craigslist. on archinect you can browse via state/country which as of today list the top three as 419 in New York, 263 in California, and 27 in New Jersey. i'd love to move back to Colorado but there are only three listings there and two are way out in grand junction :(
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 7:02 AM on February 12


Best I can tell they don't have Lawyer at all.

I was going to kvetch about the lack of any kind of legal jobs (Law Enforcement/Security only has Security officer), but then I figured that if I was coding up something like that it could be funny to be all "hurfdurf no one needs lawyers durfhurf" and decided that it was intentional.
posted by sparklemotion at 7:06 AM on February 12


It also doesn't have doctors.
posted by ocherdraco at 7:16 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Why not, Minot?

Freezin's the reason.
posted by jcreigh at 7:28 AM on February 12 [2 favorites]


I really looked, but can someone give me the official approximation of what category I would be in if I was a rat king breeder?
posted by cellphone at 7:42 AM on February 12 [6 favorites]


It must be bizarre to look at this map as, say, a European and wonder why the world of opportunities ends at the border.

Your job is in Alberta. And no, that doesn't just mean Ft McMurray. Though it can.
posted by ethnomethodologist at 7:50 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


One thing people don't realize is the Bakken is big, especially if you're used to New England-sized distances between things. Minot to Williston is farther apart than Philadelphia and New York, and it's some very desolate land in between the two. If you are that far apart and your car breaks down and you can't get to work, you're going to be fired pretty much instantly -- there's enough competitors for your job that it's not hard for employers to demand reliability.

The company I work for is intimately involved in operations out west, so I've driven those roads, and despite all the rhetoric it really is the Wild West: lots of people with barely a penny in their pocket, riding on hopes of easy income for people willing to put in a little effort, finding desolation and lack of housing and other infrastructure and no way to go back to where they came from.

For some excellent context, produced by North Dakota Public Radio, have a look at Black Gold Boom, a series of interviews and documentary pieces from a reporter out living in the boom lands.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:51 AM on February 12 [6 favorites]


BTW, don't take a flâneur job if you're a boulevardier - not even temporarily, to see you through a dry patch.

But there's always demand for flan.

Mmmm. Flan...
posted by ocschwar at 7:59 AM on February 12


It's so interesting that Vermont is bright red in so many categories. I've always wanted to live there, but written it off as the kind of place where you go when you decide "working" isn't really your bag and you're just going to live in the woods making jam.

I wonder what their teacher cert programs are like...
posted by like_a_friend at 8:27 AM on February 12


They don't seem to list journalism, but I can't imagine that the center for that would be anywhere but NYC or DC.

Except that journalism isn't a job anymore. It's something that people do for free in their spare time.
posted by Melismata at 8:27 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Except that journalism isn't a job anymore. It's something that people do for free in their spare time.

Look under "stenography".
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:38 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Except that journalism isn't a job anymore. It's something that people do for free in their spare time.

And yet somehow I can still pay for groceries.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:42 AM on February 12 [5 favorites]


I'm a little confused by this - can anyone tell what the significance of the specific "Job postings to 100K unemployed" is? We obviously can't be talking about 100K unemployed in that field..
posted by corb at 8:57 AM on February 12


I moved away from my job, so I guess I'm doing it backwards.
I need a 'Is your state in another job?' website.
In any case, none of the jobs in Computers are hardware.
posted by MtDewd at 9:01 AM on February 12


I think the Vermont showing up as needing a lot of workers is more a quirk of statistics than anything else. Their metrics are job postings per 100k unemployed since the unemployment rate is 4.5% and they're only 600k people in the state that means that every job counts as 3.7 jobs. A number of the times it shows up as bright red means that there are only 17 jobs. Its probably better to head there to life in the woods and make jam or possibly apple sauce.

on preview I was taking it to mean per 100k unemployed total.
posted by koolkat at 9:01 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


North Dakota’s population stood at 723,393 on July 1, according to the census data, a 3.1% increase from 2012. Since the 2010 census, North Dakota’s population has grown 7.6%, far outpacing the national growth rate of 2.4% during that period. [...]

Wow. When I left in 97, it was 600k and dropping, with the population flight being a major concern.
posted by flaterik at 9:38 AM on February 12


North Dakota, Wyoming, and Nevada all need bartenders.

ND. No. Bless y'all who love it there, but no. I envy you your bison that don't live behind a fence. But no.

Wyoming. No. My heros have never really been cowboys, I just like Waylon & Willie.

If Nevada legalized weed, well... I like me some broiling hot desert weather as much as the next half-lizard naturist-at-heart.

But the only gambling I do is Hold 'Em, and I can get that, along w/ a pre-rolled doobie for after work at the job I already have here.

California loooove...
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 9:41 AM on February 12


So pack up your tarp and bedroll. Don't bother loading yourself down with newspaper to stuff your shoes; it's easier to pick that up along the way.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:35 AM on February 12


What database are they using? There can't possibly be that much work for me in Kansas.*

*said in voice dripping in disdain, disgust and fear.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:06 AM on February 12


In case this can help anybody, Philadelphia desperately needs letter carriers. Some postal stations are 20 short. But you need to be able to pass the drug test which apparently is causing major recruitment difficulties.
posted by Danila at 11:07 AM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Wyoming. No. My heros have never really been cowboys, I just like Waylon & Willie.

Jackson Hole is so totally awesome that you, like, won't even remember what California was.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:09 AM on February 12


What koolkat said. The North Dakota numbers may have similar problems, but with the oil boom there at least it's believable. My siblings in VT have both had longish stretches of unemployment and my sister's field at least is red (...depending on what title you look at, of course).

And don't get too excited about all those VT teaching jobs... if you click through, the first couple pages of links are mostly looking for substitutes. And "Instructor" apparently means you teach people to ski/snowboard.

(It's also strange that the only options under Biotech/pharmacuedicals are Pharmacist while Scientist falls under Engineering.)
posted by maryr at 11:18 AM on February 12


In case this can help anybody, Philadelphia desperately needs letter carriers. Some postal stations are 20 short. But you need to be able to pass the drug test which apparently is causing major recruitment difficulties.

How much does a Philadelphia letter carrier make? Probably not relocation-level money...sigh...

Moving for work is all well and good in theory, but companies almost never pay for relo anymore, and every out-of-state offer I've had has been not only for less than I'm making now, but for less than I'm making now in a state with much higher costs of living. I legit got an offer last week for HALF my 2013 income in a state where the average rent is TWICE what I pay. I'd love to flee to somewhere, but everywhere seems to be equally bad or worse.
posted by like_a_friend at 11:39 AM on February 12



I really looked, but can someone give me the official approximation of what category I would be in if I was a rat king breeder?


I figured they'd have business school professors under Education but you're right; it's not there.
posted by dr. boludo at 11:45 AM on February 12 [4 favorites]


... the hellhole that is Williston ... got my edumacation at NDSU ...

As a former resident of the glorious NoDak, I can verify that it's likely that Ber is a legit NoDaker because of these two phrases.

Altho personally I prefer "armpit" for Williston - and maybe it's not cool to call NDSU "Moo U" any more.

Anyway ... having spent some time in the coal fields ... unless you're rough and tough and hard to surprise and were raised in an attic divided into 12 bedrooms with sheets of panelling, you should better pass. Not to mention that the bitch is col-duh.
posted by Twang at 1:36 PM on February 12


So, the future of employment in America is everyone will become a migrant worker?
posted by Thorzdad at 1:56 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]


"independent freelance explorer" please.
posted by The Whelk at 1:59 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]


Williston went from 3000 people to 13000 in five years and is expected to hit 30000 in five more, this on infrastructure for 3000. Why not grow the infrastructure you ask?

If I recall correctly, that area got burned trying to grow their infrastructure during a prior mini-boom, so they're very wary about creating another long-term problem to fill this short term need. I think that's why they are relying so much on man-camps: they can haul them away once they're unneeded.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 2:53 PM on February 12


Jackson Hole is so good, you won't even remember what Jackson Hole was like.
posted by salishsea at 4:47 PM on February 12


True fact: a friend used to live in a shitty apartment on Jackson St, we called it "The Jackson Hole".

Re: Philly - the BBC made Louis Theroux wear a bullet-proof vest on his ride-alongs with the Philly PD. Something they didn't require of him when he went to Johannesburg for the same purpose.

Wanted: mail carriers who don't watch BBC documentaries, willing to relocate.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 5:48 PM on February 12 [1 favorite]


So, the future of employment in America is everyone will become a migrant worker?

Well, or at least a lot more people will do what has long, long been customary in my field (academe): wherever the job is, that is where you shall go, and hopefully stay. I used to be the odd person out among friends. They'd major in something, pick a place they wanted to live, and then find a job there. Or they'd form a partner-type-relationship and find a job where that person was or a mutually agreeable compromise location. Those scenarios are, to me, as decadently, absurdly pie-in-the-sky as getting up in the morning and putting on mink-lined socks before having breakfast beside my Olympic-sized swimming pool full of Chanel No. 5.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:55 PM on February 12 [3 favorites]


Altho personally I prefer "armpit" for Williston ...

Both of you, your Midwestern politeness is showing. The word you're looking for is "shithole" which, fairly, could be used to describe anywhere in west river Nodak prior to the oil boom.

And on that happy note, my family can offer special Mefi rates on rental of a charming 4-bedroom 1950s farmhouse in Bowman County. It has pipeline water and, given how agressive the RTC has been, might even have fiber internet.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:02 PM on February 12 [2 favorites]


How dare you sir! West river NoDak was somewhat acceptable before the oil boom, provided you had that fiber connection, decent cable and could at least drive to the Twin Cities or Billings now and then. Bowman? I drove through there last summer. Other than oil supplies coming up US 85, it's still a nice quiet little burg. Note, US 85 is the reason you take your life in your hands going south from Williams County to Medora. Absolute highway of death, even in the summer. Especially in the summer because then the truck traffic makes a drive in Chicago or LA look like a picnic.
posted by Ber at 8:19 PM on February 12


« Older Tencent Maps - Look at some of the remotest parts ...  |  "I can't choose whether someon... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments