Skip

There are those who said this day would never come...
June 10, 2014 8:20 AM   Subscribe

A year ago, Microsoft was crucified in the press for the PR fiasco of the Xbox One, with rival Sony winning thunderous applause for its PS4 by simply maintaining the status quo. But after doing a 360 180 on its hated policies, Redmond is attempting to close the gap with the most valuable package deal since The Orange Box. A remarkable feat of engineering, Halo: The Master Chief Collection will feature on a single disc the complete HD-remastered campaigns of Halos 1-4 alongside Ridley Scott's Nightfall, the Halo 5 beta, and the holy grail of Xbox gaming: every last one of the series' 100+ multiplayer maps in a single unified matchmaking system incorporating the original engines, gameplay mechanics, and idiosyncrasies of each. Ten years after Halo 2 (and four years after MS shut the taps), IGN suspects a plan by 343 to rekindle (and data-mine) Bungie's magic for an uncertain Halo 5, while Eurogamer welcomes the return of what it calls online FPS's peak. [More reaction: NeoGAF - Ars Technica - Reddit] Bungie, meanwhile, stood with Sony to showcase its upcoming Destiny, the vaunted space epic that will beta this summer before facing its revamped forerunners later this year. More E3 coverage: Microsoft (5min) - Sony (5min) - Nintendo (airing noon EST) - SW: Battlefront - AC: Unity - MGS5: The Phantom Pain - Evolve - No Man's Sky - The Order: 1886 - Sunset Overdrive - Grim Fandango - Bloodborne - Arkham Knight - Scalebound - Mortal Kombat X - The Division - LittleBigPlanet 3 - Inside - Uncharted 4 - Crackdown
posted by Rhaomi (176 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite

 
Grim Fandango is coming back as a PlayStation exclusive so everything else in this post is meaningless by comparison.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:21 AM on June 10 [30 favorites]




I am as excited as anyone about the Grim Fandango remake, but it makes no damn sense. I assume some executive at Sony just loves the game and called in some favors to get it done, but still.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:24 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


I too, will post about Grim Fandango for some reason.
posted by eriko at 8:25 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


Blah blah blah, where's my goddamn Fallout 4?
posted by Rangeboy at 8:25 AM on June 10 [17 favorites]


My lips were sweet as mango once too, but you don't see me going on about it
posted by angerbot at 8:26 AM on June 10 [4 favorites]


Oh god bless you. I caught up on Twitter at like 10 PM last night and just had to scroll through comment after comment about E3 and I was really hoping to see it wrapped up like this. So far I've only seen the MKX trailer and I am super-excited about it in a way that concerns me slightly.

I am as excited as anyone about the Grim Fandango remake, but it makes no damn sense.

Schaefer got, what, like nearly $5M for his Kickstarter for a game that didn't even exist? I think they're looking at this as easy money.
posted by griphus at 8:26 AM on June 10


Sorry: $3.3M.
posted by griphus at 8:27 AM on June 10


brb finding my ASK ME ABOUT GRIM FANDANGO badge
posted by fight or flight at 8:27 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]




I also love Grim Fandango a whole bunch, but I'd kind of like them to make a new game that's as fun and unexpected and different as Grim Fandango rather than just making Grim Fandango again. I guess that's too much to ask for?

Whatever.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 8:29 AM on June 10


The MS press conference was good but pedestrian, Sony had weird highs and lows (I like Bendis but why is he speaking at length at E3? Save that for Comic-Con), Ubisoft has a super grim view of the world, and EA was basically a house on fire. Like... I'm excited about Dragon Age and all the Battlefront/Criterion/Bioware stuff was interesting, but 75% of that press conference was concept designs.

And you missed the best trailer by far: Super Ultra Dead Rising 3 Arcade Remix Hyper Edition EX + Alpha.
posted by kmz at 8:31 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


DRAGON AAAAGE
posted by elizardbits at 8:32 AM on June 10 [6 favorites]


Ugh I made so many unwise purchases last night.
posted by elizardbits at 8:32 AM on June 10 [4 favorites]


I also love Grim Fandango a whole bunch, but I'd kind of like them to make a new game that's fun and unexpected and different as Grim Fandango rather than just making Grim Fandango again. I guess that's too much to ask for?

Yeah, but making Grim Fandango again is cheap because you don't have to come up with a concept, design, script, voice actors, etc, etc - you just have to port the damn thing.

Also, I haven't gotten to play Grim Fandango in years so Grim Fandango Grim Fandango.
posted by Tomorrowful at 8:32 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


I mean, I am seriously considering buying a PS4 just to play it, don't get me wrong (I lost my CDROM in a move), so I guess it does make sense after all. The Renaissance of Point and Click Adventure Games on the PS4 Confirmed!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:34 AM on June 10


Also, not really surprising, but E3 is still hella violent.
posted by kmz at 8:35 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


Blah blah blah, where's my goddamn Fallout 4 Half Life 3?
posted by Fizz at 8:35 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


On a different note, I'm hoping Nintendo's presentation isn't as bad as I'm expecting it to be, because I love my Wii U, but I have basically every worthwhile game for it (Pikmin 3, NSMB U, Mario Kart 8, SM 3D World, and the Wind Waker remake) and I want something new, and it's not coming from a third party.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 8:36 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Metal Gear Solid 5 Metal Gear Solid 5 Metal Gear Solid 5.
posted by Twain Device at 8:37 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


I also love Grim Fandango a whole bunch, but I'd kind of like them to make a new game that's as fun and unexpected and different as Grim Fandango rather than just making Grim Fandango again. I guess that's too much to ask for?

Double Fine has pretty much been a fount of new ideas for the past 10 years. I won't hold it against them if they remake one game (especially if that game doesn't run well anymore!). I just really, really hope they bring it to PC too.

I really love what they're doing with the Halo combo-remake. It's what I really want to happen, even though I know it won't, with the Timesplitters games. Combine them all and give me a re-release! Wish you could mix and match the weapons from the different games though.
posted by No One Ever Does at 8:37 AM on June 10


Also, not really surprising, but E3 is still hella violent.

Someone on my Twitter feed pointed out that there were more decapitations onscreen during Microsoft's presentation than there were female characters.

Which is also not really surprising.
posted by fight or flight at 8:37 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


For serious where are my lady assassins ubisoft

did u think one was enough YOU WERE WRONG
posted by elizardbits at 8:39 AM on June 10 [7 favorites]


Even if you had the CD-ROM, it wouldn't run properly unless you have a Windows XP machine and a late-90s video card lying around (ask me how I know!). The remaster would be welcome just for the promise of maybe fixing the control scheme a little, but the fact that it's basically impossible to play the game anymore even for people who own it means this is one of the ports whose time has genuinely come.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:41 AM on June 10


More importantly, though, the fact that one of the biggest cheers at the most crowd-pleasing presentation at E3 came in response to GRIM FANDANGO warms my heart like you would not believe. Calls Of Duty and Grizzled White Guy Creed be damned - it's a new golden age of gaming, I tell you!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:42 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


There's a Grim Fandango wrapper you can use to run the game on modern PCs. Not sure how well it works, though.
posted by griphus at 8:43 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Grim Fandango coming to the PS4 most certainly gave me tingles in my sensitive areas, but there's only one thing out of the entire MSFT lineup that has me even remotely interested, and that's Sunset Overdrive. It's so cartoon-y and over-the-top that it just might work, although it definitely has massive potential to over-promise and under-deliver. An Xbone still isn't on my radar unless they can expand past that, though.

I was sad but not surprised that the trailers for both the new Uncharted and Tomb Raider were almost identical, but I'll be damned if I won't probably end up getting both of them, because I'm a sucker for 3rd-person treasure hunting, witty quips, and excellent storylines.

And you bet your sweet bajingo that I already have AC: Unity pre-ordered. That storming of the Bastille footage from the single-player demo was sweet, and I will no doubt have a ton of fun playing a roguishly charming yet also brooding enemy of the bourgeoisie. Double points to Ubisoft if he has to fop and/or dandy it up at some point.

Also, to people concerned about Grim Fandango, apparently Shaefer said it was coming to "multiple platforms," which means we'll probably see it on at least the PC.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:47 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


For serious where are my lady assassins ubisoft

did u think one was enough YOU WERE WRONG


Yes please. Having less bland, annoying male protagonists is always welcome.
posted by No One Ever Does at 8:48 AM on June 10


I think I've ruined the disc of every Halo game I've ever owned. Finally, the opportunity to scratch them all at once!
posted by forgetful snow at 8:49 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


The prospect of having real Halo CE online multiplayer is giving me chills. I don't want to have to buy a new console - especially this new console - but if anything could get me to do that, it would be this. Halo CE multiplayer has a really prominent place in my high school and college years. I still occasionally go to local LANs, and I feel that same magic every time.
posted by Corinth at 8:50 AM on June 10


I jumped ship from the consoles and went back to PC gaming a few years ago and never looked back (thanks, ArmA), and the whole XBone "Home Surveillance System" debacle last year did nothing but affirm I made the right choice.

However, I know that there is one thing that could bring me back to consoles, and each time E3 comes around, in the back of my mind is a little fear that Bungie will announce their decision to return to the Marathon series as a Halo prequel and blow my mind, and I'll just have to come back.
posted by chambers at 8:51 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


I think I've ruined the disc of every Halo game I've ever owned. Finally, the opportunity to scratch them all at once!

Or buy it digitally and finally have a scratch-proof version?
posted by evilangela at 8:52 AM on June 10




Inside, Ori, and Phantom Dust at least were outside that. (Scalebound too, but that one just ties into fantasy cliches.)
posted by kmz at 8:55 AM on June 10


For serious where are my lady assassins ubisoft

did u think one was enough YOU WERE WRONG


I can't even seem to buy that one anywhere. (no internet on my ps3)
posted by GrapeApiary at 9:00 AM on June 10


"I'm not gonna drink dirty hookah water."

*click*

"I'm not gonna drink dirty hookah water."

*click*

"I'm not gonna drink dirty hookah water."
posted by notyou at 9:02 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


omg mii fighters in the new super smash bros
posted by elizardbits at 9:03 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Well, Nintendo is starting out without playing Smash Brothers with the Gamepad and the Mii character. You can't fault them for not believing in themselves, I guess.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:03 AM on June 10


Manny, Manny, Calavera!
Got no skin, got no hair-a!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:04 AM on June 10


punching your friends in their virtual faces
posted by elizardbits at 9:04 AM on June 10


Did somebody tell Nintendo about Robot Chicken?
posted by kmz at 9:05 AM on June 10


PROBLEM: Miis are not Mega Man or Little Mac.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:05 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


I just need TLOU Remastered and Dragon Age. But I need them nowwwwwww. I want to play a lady qunari!

Destiny looks beautiful, but I'm not big on multiplayer and I don't know how much of it is.

And yes, a main-game lady assassin plz, ubisoft? Is that too much to ask when you release a game a year?
posted by lovecrafty at 9:05 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


OK, WTF is going on.
posted by kmz at 9:05 AM on June 10


"I'm not gonna drink dirty hookah water."

I think you mean, "Run, you pigeons, it's Robert Frost!"
posted by uncleozzy at 9:08 AM on June 10 [5 favorites]


this amiibo thing is really bizarre
posted by elizardbits at 9:09 AM on June 10


Tomorrowful:
Yeah, but making Grim Fandango again is cheap because you don't have to come up with a concept, design, script, voice actors, etc, etc - you just have to port the damn thing.
Not necessarily, contractually it might count as a completely new game and the rights to use the voices would have to be renegotiated. Generally they are but it's not cheap or guaranteed. See also Silent Hill 3's HD remaster.

I always felt Grim Fandango's control scheme was weird on PC--like they had it in mind for a controller all along.

Overall, I appreciated Sony's press conference but the pacing decisions were terrible. If the strategy discussion and Bendis' appearance was moved up to near the head of the show and the game reveals were allowed to end the show on a bang I think it would have worked better.

I had a feeling The Last Guardian would be a no-show because a couple days ago there was a false report that it'd been cancelled and Sony PR (and a bunch of execs and other studio dev members on twitter) immediately and forcefully contradicted it . I remember thinking that if they were set to show it off in a day or so, they'd let the incorrect report stand to maximize the surprise.

The fact that they're not showing CGI trailers and "prototype concept" footage of their 2015 lineup like Guerilla's rumoured RPG or whatever Media Molecule's working on (LittleBigPlanet 3's being handled by Sumo Digital) I (hope) indicates confidence that they don't need to tip their entire hand.* There's a bunch of anticipated games they could have included but didn't for whatever reason (either to save them for Gamescom/TGS or because they'd get crowded out) like Driveclub, The Chinese Room's Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, Rime, and Murasaki Baby. Heck, I've been dying for more information on the next Gravity Rush and there's been complete and total radio silence since the announcement trailer at the last TGS.


*On the counterpoint, they've gone really quiet on their PS4 sales numbers after releasing them practically every three weeks. The last reported worldwide sales number is from April. Maybe the momentum's finally slowed (or hit the 'I need you to show some games I'm interested in' moment).
posted by whittaker at 9:10 AM on June 10


I do have a lot of questions about amiibo, but all of them are "Why?" and I doubt you'll answer it.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:12 AM on June 10


Can I romance Varric in Dragon Age this time?
Goddammit Anders
posted by Lemmy Caution at 9:15 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


Additional:

You have no idea how chapped I was that there was all this namedropping of Vib Ribbon leading up to some big announcement...and that announcement was a damned Mortal Kombat trailer.

The Last of Us: Remastered is a buy for me...even without the visual upgrades just because of the included developer commentary tracks. Creative Director Neil Druckmann is a very intelligent, insightful person when talking about his creative process and, provided you've played through The Last of Us and Gone Home, this is an amazing podcast episode conducted by Steve Gaynor about the creative decisions in both games.
posted by whittaker at 9:19 AM on June 10


why are they not called "Amiigos"
posted by boo_radley at 9:19 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Ha, I was watching the Giant Bomb guys talk over the Sony event and they were so excited and then angry about the Vib Ribbon tease.
posted by kmz at 9:20 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


At this exact moment, I am watching the Nintendo E3 Digital Event. They've just shown (after what looks like RFID-enabled figurings) a new Yoshi game based around ... knitting and yarn. And it's possibly the cutest video game ever.

And now onto the next Zelda game. Oooooo. Screw your Shoot-Everyone-In-The-Face games, other console manufacturers. This is where gaming is at.
posted by Wordshore at 9:21 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


The Yoshi game was adorable, and so were the little Goombas in floaties chasing Toad around, even if I'm not likely to buy a Toad game.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:22 AM on June 10


Looking at the SW:Battlefront in game footage of the speeder bikes on Endor, I hope there is a 1st person view option, because if it's only 3rd person, it's either going to be insanely difficult, or nerfed to the point where it only looks difficult to a spectator, and will be a much less rewarding challenge for the player.
posted by chambers at 9:23 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU the new Zelda game. Epona. The moving grass.

Must have.

Must have now.
posted by Wordshore at 9:25 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


Whole lot of love for Grim Fandango here.


Grim Fandango! Grim Fandango! Grim Fandango!
posted by flippant at 9:26 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Oh hey I totally forgot about Hyrule Warriors. It's like the game I used to dream about when I was 14.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:29 AM on June 10


In other news, SteamOS/Steam-for-Linux has reached 500 games: Phoronix
posted by rosswald at 9:29 AM on June 10


I'm really interested in No Man's Sky. I like the "go swimming/exploring, jump in my spaceship and then fly to space" thing. Like tons. Reminds me of what something like Noctis could've become with a Kickstarter. Now there are dinosaurs, so that's even more coolness.
Grim Fandango would be nice - I've got the original CD so being able to play it without a huge song-and-dance setup would be a plus.
I haven't seen anything for Raindrop, so perhaps they didn't have enough content for E3. I hope that one takes off, too.
posted by Zack_Replica at 9:29 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Dang, I might just be able to forgive Nintendo for the hideous design choices of their new female Zelda villain. Maybe. Perhaps.
posted by fight or flight at 9:29 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


Kirby!

hideous design choices

WTF Nintendo?!
posted by kmz at 9:35 AM on June 10


Dang, I might just be able to forgive Nintendo for the hideous design choices of their new female Zelda villain. Maybe. Perhaps.


Not that it forgives anything, but I think we're talking about two different games, right? That's the big-bad for the Hyrule Warriors game, not the new Legend of Zelda game that is making everyone's jaw drop.
posted by kbanas at 9:38 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


You know what the Wii U really needs? Endless Ocean 3. The first two games needed the HD that the original was lacking, and there's even a use for the gamepad. It can be a camera or scanner or clipboard with fish facts depending on the context.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:40 AM on June 10 [8 favorites]


What the Wii U needs is a Wario Ware game that has Oculus Rift support. Contemporary video game violence has gotten stale, we need to push the envelope and literalize game-related harm.
posted by cortex at 9:44 AM on June 10 [5 favorites]


Between No Man's Sky and Phantom Pain, I'm pretty excited.

Also I will probably buy the new Assassin's Creed and play it and probably enjoy it, because I am a sucker and I can pretty much guarantee it's the same game I've been buying every year since Assassin's Creed 2 (with the exception of Black Flag, because the ship really did change the game up and I'd like more of that please).
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 9:46 AM on June 10


Is this the Zelda trailer everybody is slobbering over? Because ... I'm slobbering, too. Holy wow.
posted by uncleozzy at 9:47 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Wow maybe WiiU will limp to modest success? I might buy one after I finish getting divorced, mostly for Monster Hunter.
posted by Mister_A at 9:48 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


So these amiibo are like real-life Pokemon? Am I understanding this?
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:51 AM on June 10


Damn is that really a gameplay trailer or just a bad label? Cuz damn!
posted by Mister_A at 9:52 AM on June 10


You know what the Wii U really needs? Endless Ocean 3.

That might almost get me to buy a Wii U. Such soothing games, much more so than, say, Animal Crossing, where you don't really have to do anything but your villagers get all weird if you don't.

Also, Grim Fandango on Vita? Yes, please. Manny Calavera needs to ride the bus with me.
posted by asperity at 9:54 AM on June 10


As excited as I am about the new Zelda, I will believe the game looks like then when I play it. The history of E3 is "gameplay trailers" that look way better than the game does.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 9:54 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


That's my concern, ElemPen. Still might get one of 'em though, you know, for the kids!

SRSLY I am addicted to Mario.
posted by Mister_A at 9:56 AM on June 10


A Zelda game that looks like a Studio Ghibli film?!

Yes. Yes, I think I will.
posted by Wordshore at 9:58 AM on June 10


My main question about the Phantom Pain is whether any of the stuff from that fake announcement trailer a while back will be in the game. That stuff was so cool.
posted by azarbayejani at 10:00 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


azarbayejani: When that trailer dropped I was hoping for a long shot where it wasn't actually the next Metal Gear game because it's honestly such a cool idea for an unnerving horror game that I'd rather it not have MGS baggage.
posted by whittaker at 10:02 AM on June 10


My main question about Phantom Pain is whether it will have the same number of rapes per gameplay hour as Ground Zeroes.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:03 AM on June 10


Haven't even played Ground Zeroes yet, but I hope not because that game was, what, five hours long?
posted by azarbayejani at 10:06 AM on June 10


I think most people finished the Ground Zeroes campaign in less than 2 hours. The grossness however stays with you for much longer.
posted by kmz at 10:08 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


More like one to two.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:08 AM on June 10


I would buy a PS4 just for a Grim Fandango remake.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:15 AM on June 10


I loved the first Halo game and played it a lot and gee it was fun... but, I don't generally buy a console just to play a specific game*. Which meant I missed out on a lot after that first one. I'd love to see what the rest of Halo was all about, but no Xbox for me, so not going to happen any time soon.

*With the exception of Nintendo I guess, given that Ocarina of Time got me to pick up the N64, Windwaker got me to buy the GameCube, and while I didn't buy the Wii specifically to get Twilight Princess, it didn't hurt. Which reminds me, I never finished that game. Probably because I had a kid right around the time I was playing it, and suddenly my free time went away. I never even BOUGHT Skyward Sword. The only games I actually have time to play any more are things like the Lego games, because my kid is now old enough to play along with me. Expansive adventure games, how I miss you...
posted by caution live frogs at 10:16 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Rhaomi I am in awe of your giant and excellent post.
posted by stoneweaver at 10:16 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


I have less time to access tumblr lately, which is good for people following me who didn't want to be inundated with Dragon Age: Inquisition and Mass Effect tidbits (though really if they're not interested in those they're pretty much out of luck every single day).

As it is, if we get more info on Dorian Pavus today they'd best be prepared for the deluge.
posted by rewil at 10:19 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Ahahaha, poor Patrick Klepek just found out that the interview about Zelda which he was super excited about is actually about Hyrule Warriors instead.
posted by kmz at 10:24 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Yay Starfox! I'll take it.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:34 AM on June 10


Grim Fandango is wonderful in a way few games can afford to be anyway. It's intensely frustrating that it's a "Playstation exclusive" though, the game is tailor made for Steam.

The Let's Play for it remains a highlight of the genre.
posted by JHarris at 10:34 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


I'm not wrong that the trailer for the Zelda U game is NOT Hyrule Warriors. Please I hope? Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued by HW, but I want a true to the series Zelda game.

(I'm basing this on the 2015 in the trailer. HW is supposed to be out this year)
posted by Twain Device at 10:36 AM on June 10


Other things I am super excited about:
- Bloodborne (SHOW US MORE GAMEPLAY PLZ)
- Sunset Overdrive (a.k.a. the only reason I'd want an Xbox One)
posted by azarbayejani at 10:40 AM on June 10


They are separate games, Twain Device. Separate awesome games.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 10:43 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Dragon Age: Inquisition! I shall tastefully make love to everyone.
posted by echocollate at 10:44 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


A Zelda game that looks like a Studio Ghibli film?!

A lot of fans remember the action movie-styled E3 Gamecube trailer, the expectations for which were thwarted by the cel-shaded, cartoony Wind Waker, which disheartened a lot of players.

Eventually of course Nintendo did release Twilight Princess on Gamecube, which was more clearly inspired by the trailer, as that platform's swan song. But it is interesting to note, in retrospect, that Wind Waker seems to be now generally regarded as the superior game. I can remember most of the important moments in Wind Waker (and not just because I've played the game on Wii-U), whereas most of Twilight Princess just sort of fades together in my head, and that's despite Midna's general awesomeness.

The thing about that trailer is, the best moment of it is at the start, with that scene with Link and Epona (I suppose) standing in a field surrounded by nature. That's a great shot. Are there hidden caves in that forest? What's in that grass? Can you bomb those rocks? Is there anything in those crags to the left? What's that structure in the distance to the right? Mystery! Adventure! That's what makes a good Zelda game.

Then the damn monster shows up and it becomes a fight scene with all the usual action movie cliches, with two long slow motion beats that don't fucking work in video games.

I hope Nintendo remembers their promise to make the next (real) Zelda a breaking away of the series.
posted by JHarris at 10:47 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


Twain Device - Yes, that Zelda clip was introduced as gameplay footage from an actual Zelda game. Apparently you can walk all the way to those mountains in the background if you want, making it much more open than previous worlds.

I really want to love Zelda games, but my playing habits are too sporadic. I was obsessed with Skyward Sword for a few weeks (seriously, it's a fantastic game), then got a bit busy with other things, came back a month later and couldn't remember where I'd already been and what I was trying to achieve. Maybe I need to keep notes or something...
posted by metaBugs at 10:50 AM on June 10


The No Man's Sky trailer has me more excited than any preview since the Spore preview. It will either be the greatest game in the history of it's genre or the next Spore. I cannot see any in-between.
posted by samworm at 10:51 AM on June 10 [8 favorites]


Dang, I might just be able to forgive Nintendo for the hideous design choices of their new female Zelda villain. Maybe. Perhaps.

It should be noted that the Hyrule Warriors villain, Cia, was designed by Team Ninja, who are producing Hyrule Warriors much like they produced Metroid: Other M. Why is Nintendo paying these guys?
posted by JHarris at 10:52 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


I do have a lot of questions about amiibo, but all of them are "Why?" and I doubt you'll answer it.

From the clip I've seen so far, the real answer is "We wanted our own piece of the Skylanders pie."
posted by JHarris at 10:59 AM on June 10


Amiibo is physical DLC
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:02 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


Twain Device - Yes, that Zelda clip was introduced as gameplay footage from an actual Zelda game.

That is not gameplay footage, not if Nintendo has any sense. The sudden camera angle changes alone would make it impossible to control unless it was fucking Dragon's Lair or made up entirely of quick time events. I can believe the rendering style, but I can't believe the design.
posted by JHarris at 11:09 AM on June 10


From the clip I've seen so far, the real answer is "We wanted our own piece of the Skylanders pie."

Basically. Back in the day, Nintendo was offered an exclusive deal for Skylanders. They turned it down be ause Nintendo makes business decisions with a dartboard. Skylanders turned into one of the single most profitable IPs in videogaming. So this makes a lot of sense.
posted by griphus at 11:13 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


That Zelda thing is awfully pretty.

However, I don't think anybody will ever make smoke that looks better than the smoke in Wind Waker.
posted by aubilenon at 11:14 AM on June 10 [5 favorites]


Also, as a longterm fan of Halo, the Halo box might have been the most boring part of the entire conference. It's a great value and very convenient, but yawn.
posted by 2bucksplus at 11:15 AM on June 10


I don't like the whole sell-physical-unlock-token scheme whether it's called Skylanders or Amiibo or Disney Infinity. At least with Skylanders, however, it's a truckload of money for the eternally-deserving Toys For Bob; the longer that company stays afloat, the more likely we'll get Star Control III. (A real one.)
posted by JHarris at 11:16 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


More on Nintendo/Skylanders including dollar figures.
posted by griphus at 11:16 AM on June 10 [3 favorites]


JHarris - That is not gameplay footage...

You're right. I agree with you about the camera angles and slow-mo looking unplayable, but I (wrongly) thought that they'd claimed it as in-game. The relevant bit of the announcement starts here (jump backwards a few minutes for a bit of preamble about previous Zelda games).
posted by metaBugs at 11:20 AM on June 10


"In-engine" can mean "in-game" but it can also mean "we had the engine render a scene at four times normal detail and then sped up the video so you can't see the slowdown."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:26 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


I gotta say both the Uncharted 4 trailer and the involvement of the Last of Us devs over the original crew make me think this entry in the series is gonna be an uncharacteristic downer. I disapprove.

Probably still gonna play it, though.
posted by asperity at 11:37 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Yeah it's kind of funny how the tide shifted from (back in 2002) MORE LIKE CELDA AMIRITE to (since probably at least 2010) WIND WAKER IS ONE OF THE BEST ZELDA GAMES EVER

I was sort of out of the country/away from gaming when Wind Waker came out, and I didn't get to play it until well after the hype/letdown had played out. I had zero expectations, and the last Zelda game I had really played was Link to the Past.

I sat down to play Wind Waker and was just completely enthralled. The remake is the reason I bought a Wii U, though I have to admit it's almost too shiny...because for me part of the thing that made WW so great was that it felt so much like a scratchy little saturday morning kids cartoon. It evoked that sense of wonder and possibility that really is at the heart of the Zelda franchise.

When Twilight Princess came out I was excited by the idea of the more dramatic, more "mature" look but in the end it just couldn't hold my attention like WW or LttP. SkyWard Sword seemed like (at first) a lessons-learned where Nintendo was attempting to combine the much better visual style of WW with the "maturity" of TP, but again, I found I that I lost interest in finishing the game. It just couldn't hold me, I think partly because it seemed like it wasn't a Zelda game anymore, too many weird things that didn't quite fit? I'm not sure.

I'm with JHarris on this one, I really hope this "more open world" concept helps Nintendo reaally hone back into what Zelda is about.

Also Minish Cap is a pretty fantastic game in its own right.
posted by Doleful Creature at 11:41 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


I gotta say both the Uncharted 4 trailer and the involvement of the Last of Us devs over the original crew make me think this entry in the series is gonna be an uncharacteristic downer. I disapprove.

Probably still gonna play it, though.


Yeah, that looks dark and serious, which is definitely not the point of Uncharted. It's pulp, just let it be pulp.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:43 AM on June 10 [2 favorites]


Finally feeling really good about my Wii U launch purchase!

More Wii U goodies for Smash Bros: New 'Retro' GameCube Controller and Adapter Pricing

Maybe this is the first step towards GameCube titles on the Virtual Console?
posted by porn in the woods at 11:45 AM on June 10


While I was bummed the Division was bumped back to 2015, the Snowdrop engine and the gameplay trailer for it made me glad it was another year off. Otherwise, I'd have just wasted serious coin on Planetside Station Cash.
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:55 AM on June 10


A Gamecube controller adapter is interesting. It'd be very nice if they released an update for Pikmin 3 that put the Gamecube controls back in the game, because the one thing about it that I really miss is swishing my guys around with the C stick. (And I have like four Gamecube controllers bumping about still.)

Gamecube games for Virtual Console would be terrific. Hindsight is shaping the system up like a second Dreamcast, commercial also-ran that was home to a surprising number of must-play games.
posted by JHarris at 11:57 AM on June 10 [1 favorite]


SkyWard Sword seemed like (at first) a lessons-learned where Nintendo was attempting to combine the much better visual style of WW with the "maturity" of TP, but again, I found I that I lost interest in finishing the game.

The Motion Plus-supported swordfighting that could have been so great became mostly just a sequence of directions to slash from when fighting certain opponents. "Oh, this flower is opened up horizontally, let's slash it that way -- oops, was a few degrees off, try again -- oops..." etc. But the places it really fell apart are that it sought, finally, to do what multiple Zelda games have tried to do since Link to the Past, which is provide a foundation for the series chronologically, and it sucked at that, and the "overworld" of the game, the "sky," was terrible.

The reason the Sky sucked so much was that it was too visible, and the unnaturalness of the setting made it all seem more arbitrary and artificial than the standard Zelda overworld. What's interesting is that another game has done the sky exploration thing a whole lot better, and it was on the Gamecube: Skies of Arcadia has a terrific exploration game.
posted by JHarris at 12:11 PM on June 10


porn in the woods: "More Wii U goodies for Smash Bros: New 'Retro' GameCube Controller and Adapter Pricing"

I lost interest in the Wii after I realized how many add on things that I had accumulated for it -- classic controllers, motion control+, the wii fit board, all of the old game cube and wavebird controllers I still had. I'm just not interested in gathering up more ways to interface with a console.
posted by boo_radley at 12:25 PM on June 10


The thing about the Xbone that still discourages me from even considering getting one is that not only did MS change direction on their policies--after insisting that they were somehow necessary for the Xbone to function properly--but that they did so pretty close to the official launch, which implies that all they had to do was toggle a few things... which in turn implies that they could choose to toggle them back in a future "update." That's not worth any sort of package deal for Halo or whatever.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:39 PM on June 10 [6 favorites]


My understanding is that the initial XBox One firmware was basically flaming wreckage, especially in regards to online functionality, so it wouldn't surprise me if they did have to completely retool the system after the policy change.
posted by kmz at 1:04 PM on June 10


Still no massive surprise announcement, from anyone, about Shenmue III. Le sigh.

A man can dream.
posted by Wordshore at 1:29 PM on June 10 [3 favorites]


Valve is proud to announce The Oranger Box, featuring Half-Life 3, Shenmue III, The Last Guardian, and Titan. Yes, with the fuck-off money they have from Steam and Dota 2, they bought Sega, Sony, and Activision.

Pre-orders come with a reskin for Dota 2 that makes all the characters a different knife from Gaben's collection.
posted by kmz at 1:41 PM on June 10 [2 favorites]


Blah blah blah, where's my goddamn Fallout 4?

Bethesda needs to shit out Fallout 4 so Obsidian can make a followup to New Vegas. Preferably with as much time and money as they need.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:51 PM on June 10 [4 favorites]


The trailer for Grim Fandango is probably the best video game trailer.
posted by straight at 1:56 PM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Considering the gaming industry blows away Hollywood in total revenue year after year (the first day the latest Grand Theft Auto installment was released it made $800 million in one day, and Microsoft's traditional desktop software is only slowly being adopted as a service model, Microsoft appears to be doubling down on their Halo Machine.
posted by four panels at 2:56 PM on June 10


Just on Sunday night, our old gang gathered in front of a 360 to play Halo Prisoner Rockets multiplayer splitscreen, just like back in the day. Brought back so many good memories.
posted by praiseb at 3:05 PM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Bloodborne (SHOW US MORE GAMEPLAY PLZ)

This is the only thing that's excited me so far. Wasn't there a gameplay demo leaked at some point?

With a bit of searching: yes. Fog doors, packs of zombies and giant bosses. At least in a super early stage, it's seems like Souls 2.5. Shame about PS4 exclusivity.
posted by codacorolla at 3:56 PM on June 10


Grim Fandango is good but it's no Day of the Tentacle. It's not even a Monkey Island.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:57 PM on June 10


I played Fallout 3 and New Vegas on the Xbox 360 years ago. I'm replaying them on my piece-of-shit PC now, and they run better and look better and are more fun. I sometimes can't believe how much I like Fallout, it's like I'm going crazy.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:58 PM on June 10 [2 favorites]


praiseb, shotguns with shields disabled and a gentleman's agreement that you must jump down to the bottom after spawning is also a wonderful way to enjoy Prisoner with friends.
posted by Corinth at 5:06 PM on June 10 [1 favorite]


Bayonetta 2, which is a wii U exclusive for reasons, will also apparently include the entire first game as either a preorder bonus or part of the package forever. I don't think it's really been confirmed yet but it sounds like a forever deal.

Between that, the Zelda game, the other Zelda game where you can play as Zelda sometimes, the cartoony paintball squad FPS where you turn into a squid (Splatoon), Captain Toad, and a bunch of other smaller games (we'll see about Devil's Third) I'm pretty happy about the Wii U right now. And smash 4. Smash 4 looks so great.

Might pick up a PS4 once the finally-announced Kingdom Hearts 3 comes out, depending on finances. I'll look into those exclusives a little more then.
posted by sandswipe at 5:52 PM on June 10


♪ ♫ BUM-BA-DA-BAAAAAAA, BUM-BA-DA-BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, BUM-BA-DA-BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, BUM-BA-DA-BA, BUM-BA-DA-BAA-BAA-BAA♩♪
posted by Chutzler at 6:09 PM on June 10


wort wort wort!
posted by Chutzler at 6:09 PM on June 10


I really really want to believe with relation to battlefront, but they're making it awfully hard by showing a bunch of foreplay promo video stuff and no actual gameplay. Me and my friends still to this day crack beers and play battlefront and battlefront 2 on a thrift store sourced original xbox one of my friends picked up. It's seriously one of the best split screen multiplayer games of all time, right up there with mario kart/party/smash bros/etc for being able to show someone in 5 minutes or so how to play and just letting them have at it.

My excitement is tampered by yea, the lack of gameplay... and also that it's by dice who seem to be great at fucking up everything they touch. The old ones were lucasarts games, FFS. I want to freak out, but i just can't quite bring myself to.

I have similar feeling about zelda, honestly. You get one shot of a ZOMG HUGE open world, then a quit almost cutscene-like shot of a battle in... a narrow corridor that looks almost exactly like something from the early parts of twilight princess. I'm supposed to be pooping my pants over this?

On the other hand though, nintendo always manages to make something that doesn't leave you feeling like you wasted your money. It's always at least pretty damn fun, even if it isn't exactly what you thought/they implied it would be. EA/dice on the other hand...
posted by emptythought at 6:39 PM on June 10


More Wii U goodies for Smash Bros: New 'Retro' GameCube Controller and Adapter Pricing

From TFA:

If you want the full set, meanwhile, there'll be a special bundle that includes the Wii U game, adapter and new controller for $99.99,

Oh come on, that is directly out of the back side of the horse. I figured the game would be like $60 and include both of those things, like Starfox 64 and the rumble pack. They should at least include that adapter.

$20 for the adapter is honestly as low as i expected them to go, but $30 for the controller is... annoying at best. It's also worrying that they don't have the "nintendo" imprints and such the old controller did. There's a lot of crappy clones that look exactly like that on the market right now that just... aren't the same as old gamecube controllers in quality or performance.

I guess i'm just annoyed that even though i have controllers already, this is going to be an $80 game. Seriously, $60 for the game and $20 for the adapter? can't you guys just throw the damn thing in if it's going to be $60 anyways? that's $10 more than nintendo games even used to be!
posted by emptythought at 6:46 PM on June 10


JHarris: "...What's interesting is that another game has done the sky exploration thing a whole lot better, and it was on the Gamecube: Skies of Arcadia has a terrific exploration game."

Hell no.

I really really wanted to love Skies. It's one of my friends all time favorites. I sorta liked it at the start, but... as is typical with the turn-based RPGs, it just felt so all consuming that if I dared take a break I forgot how it worked and then if I didn't level up enough, I ended up getting caught in the southern area of the sky? Ugh. And turn based battles are sooooooo boring. But ultimately, the sky? I just... I hated the ship to ship battles more than the regular battles, and it was always this Final Fantasy random enemy pops up and...

That said, I do admit that Skyward Sword really hooked me at first, and I still have it waiting to jump back in, but ... I haven't. Maybe it's the same thing where I just kinda got tired of it? I'm not sure. It sure is beautiful though. I really didn't like TP after it got going, even though it seemed interesting at first. WW, well... I had absolutely NO problem with the graphics and in fact felt the opposite that a lot of people did (well I may have kvetched a little at first), but to see it in motion, so smooth removed any concerns on the visual front. But dear god the open world water traversal to the islands and back and forth and so annoying.

I'm not a fan of open world games and this is the first open world Zelda on the Wii U, so, to me it's a bit scary, not only in the fact that I always *want* to love Zelda games, but honestly I've only ever beat Zelda 2 (is that really even a Zelda game?) and WW.

But damn if this new one isn't beautiful.

And am I the only one who wants to play Splatoons? That looked so damn awesome! I don't think it will stack up to Powerstone (seriously, Capcom... POWERSTONE I WANT THAT NOW!), but it seems to have some of that same multiplayer fun, that's cartoony and just wild all over with a unique spin (area control) that many of these other types of games just don't have (oh, look, another "capture 3 random thingies to win" or "get as many kills as you can in 2 minutes").

I used to have Grim Fandango on disc (I have no clue where it got lost in my many moves). The machine I had it on always always always failed, or I forgot where I was so I never got very far in the game, and I don't know if I would really like the style of play anymore. Psychonauts was more up my alley.

Between Mario Kart 8, Wonderful 101, Splatoons and the new Zelda (and the Sonic racing game is pretty damn fun, even though I can get it on PC (and cheaper) if I wanted)... I might almost want to get a Wii U. This is the first sign I had that Nintendo might be able to turn the ship around. They really really really need to start getting new IP, or like what they're doing with Hyrule Warrios (ha! I typod that, Hyrule Wario?? MWAHHAHAHA) and Mario Maker... Use the old IP in new and interesting ways instead of just "one more of the same as before"... Honestly, I wish they'd make another Kid Icarus for console, not handheld. I think that might help me to pick it up (if you get rid of the annoying "we think 5 year old kids want teenage mutant ninja turtles as their voiceovers RADICAL TUBULAR DUDE" voice)...

I just would love to see a Nintendo console that had solid third party support, and I think Ubi is the only company that even makes a half-assed attempt let alone a real attempt(?)

I'm a PC dude though. Just how I roll.
posted by symbioid at 7:56 PM on June 10


All this remastered Halo, and they leave out ODST?

BOO.

BOOOOOOOOOO.
posted by mhoye at 8:05 PM on June 10


I played Fallout 3 and New Vegas on the Xbox 360 years ago. I'm replaying them on my piece-of-shit PC now, and they run better and look better and are more fun. I sometimes can't believe how much I like Fallout, it's like I'm going crazy.

We should talk mods sometime, particularly for New Vegas.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:29 PM on June 10 [1 favorite]


I said that the exploration game was terrific in Skies. I was annoyed as anyone with the random battles.
posted by JHarris at 8:34 PM on June 10


If Nintendo wants to produce a Zelda with large explorable scenery, and not hire on a small army of 3d modelers, they should probably figure out the whole procedural generation thing.
posted by pwnguin at 8:36 PM on June 10


I have similar feeling about zelda, honestly. You get one shot of a ZOMG HUGE open world, then a quit almost cutscene-like shot of a battle in... a narrow corridor that looks almost exactly like something from the early parts of twilight princess.

This is exactly my fear, it's how 3D Zeldas have been designed since OOT: big "rooms" connected by corridors. The net result is very different from a true open world, and it greatly limits exploration.
posted by 2bucksplus at 10:40 PM on June 10


There's a link to an interview with series producer Eiji Aonuma on YouTube (not linked because it's Gamespot) that says it's going to be very open-worldish, that the distant terrain in the video is reachable and explorable, and can be approached from any direction. That would be just the thing, I think, to satisfy my own recent disappointments with Zelda games, and those of others.
posted by JHarris at 10:45 PM on June 10




"Female lead [in Assassin's Creed Unity] was planned, but canned as it would have doubled development efforts."
Then it wasn't planned very well was it.
posted by fullerine at 11:57 PM on June 10 [5 favorites]


Eh. I've been suggesting to anyone who's asked to basically wait it out. In 3 years the games will be $30, and the consoles will be cheaper as well. Assuming there isn't a PC port available in that time. Anyone who "pre-orders" games is kind of tossing their money away.

Meanwhile, assuming you already have a desktop PC, you can buy a very good graphics card for $250 -- and you have many more games to choose from. Not to mention the oculus rift coming around the corner, which will most likely not work very satisfactorily[1] on the current consoles. (Yes, Virginia, there will be a PS5, and a TV set may not be its primary output device).

I'll stick with Steam for now. Thanks.

[1] Oculus requires (at least) 60fps with no frame drops, at high resolution, so it doesn't make you sick. Oh, and that's for *2* views, one for each eye.
posted by smidgen at 1:06 AM on June 11


Of course, I write that and then read this not 10 minutes later. I still remain skeptical the experience will live up to the hype without a hardware upgrade.
posted by smidgen at 1:14 AM on June 11


There's a new Borderlands game coming out in October. Unless Fallout 4 was announced at E3, I'm all set for the year.
posted by Legomancer at 6:10 AM on June 11


Then it wasn't planned very well was it.

Yeah, I had the tiniest glimmer of hope when they said "each character is FULLY CUSTOMIZABLE" because idk maybe they really meant it? Like with sims? Maybe we could make nonwhite and/or nonmale characters? But no, it's changing the color of their fancy cravats.

sigh
posted by elizardbits at 7:26 AM on June 11


I played Fallout 3 and New Vegas on the Xbox 360 years ago. I'm replaying them on my piece-of-shit PC now, and they run better and look better and are more fun.

I'm having the same experience with the Mass Effect games; I'm actually enjoying ME1 on the PC, which I never really did on the 360 (I originally jumped into the series with ME2, and played the first game just to get a decent saved game to import). I was disappointed at first by the character design on ME3 for 360, especially the way that the characters' eyes looked, but it looks so much better on the PC, and that's with a not-particularly-great graphics card.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:43 AM on June 11


I played Fallout 3 and New Vegas on the Xbox 360 years ago. I'm replaying them on my piece-of-shit PC now, and they run better and look better and are more fun.

I can't speak for the 360 version, but the PS3 versions of F3 and F:NV are absolutely crippled by the lack of RAM. More or less equalizing memory between consoles and budgetish PCs is one of the things I'm looking forward to most about the new console cycle.

If you want fully customizable characters, you want the Saints Row series.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:49 AM on June 11


"Female lead [in Assassin's Creed Unity] was planned, but canned as it would have doubled development efforts."

I'm pretty sure that means they're bad developers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:50 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]


The reasoning makes it even more craven:
To be very honest, originally we had planned to have female assassins in the game. And, essentially, we ran into the reality of production. We had to...because it's double the animations, double the voices, all that stuff, double the visual assets—especially because we have customizable assassins.
This is a game currently being worked on by ten different studios spending millions of dollars. And it's not as if they're re-inventing the wheel with assets and animations, either, seeing as how they have at least one game with a female (and PoC) protagonist, and IIRC every single AC that came with multiplayer had at least one female avatar. Hiring a female voice actor or four would have been a mere pittance compared to the rest of the budget, so that's not a viable excuse either. The good news is that this excuse is getting a relatively high amount of criticism in the gaming press, so they're not getting by that easy.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:24 AM on June 11


Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: "
I'm pretty sure that means they're bad developers.
"

It could also mean they didn't do very much work for Unity.
posted by pwnguin at 8:46 AM on June 11


it's double the animations, double the voices, all that stuff, double the visual assets

If Volition could afford it, so can you.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:00 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]


That too. As far as I can tell the protagonists of Unity are Ezio, Ezio Holding An Axe, Ezio With A Tan, and Ezio In A Different Hat.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:01 AM on June 11 [3 favorites]


my preciousssssss
posted by elizardbits at 9:17 AM on June 11


Opinions will vary on whether that constitutes a flaw, of course.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:20 AM on June 11


I'm kind of holding out hope that they might have an assassin who doesn't fit into the white male mold quite as neatly in the rumored last-gen AC game being developed alongside Unity. Although I should probably just finally get around to downloading Liberation.
posted by figurant at 9:29 AM on June 11


That Zelda looked fantastic, wow.

Even if you had the CD-ROM, it wouldn't run properly unless you have a Windows XP machine and a late-90s video card lying around

You can get it to run on Win7! I played it on my computer last year maybe.

but I have basically every worthwhile game for it (Pikmin 3, NSMB U, Mario Kart 8, SM 3D World, and the Wind Waker remake)

I'd add Wonderful 101 and Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze to that list.

Bayonetta 2, which is a wii U exclusive for reasons


Mainly because Nintendo gave them a publishing offer and the game wouldn't exist otherwise. Nintendo what Sega don't.
posted by ersatz at 9:52 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]


"Female lead [in Assassin's Creed Unity] was planned, but canned as it would have doubled development efforts."

The Mary Sue: Ubisoft Blames Lack of Female PCs in Assassin’s Creed on “Reality of Production”

Related: Join Me For Unabashed Gushing Over Assassin’s Creed: Liberation‘s Female Protagonist
posted by homunculus at 9:52 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]


There's a link to an interview with series producer Eiji Aonuma on YouTube (not linked because it's Gamespot) that says it's going to be very open-worldish, that the distant terrain in the video is reachable and explorable, and can be approached from any direction. That would be just the thing, I think, to satisfy my own recent disappointments with Zelda games, and those of others

I just remain really skeptical. I have pretty clear memories of the previews for OoT showing hyrule field as some enormous impressive open space like that which went on like, ZOMG forever. Nintendo isn't sony or anything where they'll completely lie about a system or game and what it's capable of, but they have in the past gotten a little over excited and kinda flubbed/exaggerated about what something exactly was.

As for that writeup you linked, I just have a hard time taking anything seriously that craps on OoT. It's just such a contrarian edgy Internet need thing to do. I realize he tries to qualify it, but it's like saying "nirvana is a really shitty band and here's why" or something. It's not just a minority opinion, it's very easy to come off as disagreeing for the sake of playing devils advocate or "bucking the norm" or whatever. I'm also especially surprised to hear it from someone who actually played it when it came out, and not someone who was born in the late 90s.

That game, along with Mario 64 was as significant to 3d gaming as the original Mario bros and Zelda were to 2d gaming. For all its silly forced perspective trickery, not really massive hyrule field, and limitations in general... It was not only really impressive even now when taken in context, but essentially set the stage for every other console rpg after it that wasn't turn based. Games still come out today, for current systems that are essentially OoT clones with sharper graphics.

So yea, I don't disagree with his criticisms or deny their truth, but I think they're along the lines of going to a Michelin star restaurant and saying it's shit because the portions are small.

I also think the next big leap for Zelda is being fucking huge like they're claiming. I can't really think of anywhere else for it to go. I don't know if I believe them that they're really doing it right now though.
posted by emptythought at 12:03 PM on June 11


I just remain really skeptical. I have pretty clear memories of the previews for OoT showing hyrule field as some enormous impressive open space like that which went on like, ZOMG forever.

It should be remembered that Ocarina ran originally on an N64, and even the original Zelda and Link to the Past, which are the benchmarks for open-world design in the series, were separated into "rooms," that is, regions where the scroll ended, which could be considered analogous with Ocarina's rooms.

Nintendo isn't sony or anything where they'll completely lie about a system or game and what it's capable of, but they have in the past gotten a little over excited and kinda flubbed/exaggerated about what something exactly was.

All game companies do this to a degree. Nintendo, however, is one of the most laid back. They've never named a chip the Emotion Engine, or engaged in the kind of hype Sony did to amp it up, which Google/Bing/DuckDuckGo are failing me in remembering examples of which right now because of search static from E3. I did find a claim that a Japanese minister was worried that PS3s were super-computery enough that they might be used to guide missiles or something, which is remarkably bullshitty.

As for that writeup you linked, I just have a hard time taking anything seriously that craps on OoT. It's just such a contrarian edgy Internet need thing to do.

This isn't the first time Saving Zelda has come up on the blue, which I originally linked. Suffice to say, you aren't alone in ragging on it for dissing Ocarina, but I remain convinced that it's accurate, and repeat once again my conviction that it mirrors my pre-existing attitudes about Zelda so well that I could have written the whole thing myself. It is, literally, contrarian to reject the popular opinion on something, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

Ocarina does have many good points, including pretty interesting dungeons and being the foundation of the modern version of Hyrule lore. The thing about Ocarina is that, in retrospect, it can be viewed as kind of the beginning of the trends that more obviously harmed Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. It does have Hyrule Field, which was a very large space to explore for such a game, but very little happened in it. In the day the only danger there was the giant Peahats, which actually only existed in Young Link's time; whatever Ganon's failings as a ruler, the man cleared Hyrule Field of those damn things. At night there were the Stalchildren, which were a little more aggressive but completely bland. And, despite the size, the number of interesting locations in Hyrule Field could be counted on one hand.

(I say "kind of the beginning," because some other trends date back to Link to the Past or Zelda II. You could even say the original Zelda, but mostly that game remains remarkably distinct from its successors for its non-linearity and free-roaming nature.)

Anyway, this is all water under the bridge, and I've had plenty of arguments about it around these parts before. I only bring them up now because, interestingly, Nintendo seems to have thought something similar, because that interview with Aonuma is just about the most heartening thing a Zelda fan with my opinions could hear.
posted by JHarris at 1:12 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]


I was literally thinking "JHarris will be pleased to ear Aonuma say that"... and yeah, that's the kind of overworld where exploring without telltale signs would be quite appealing.

The thing I miss about older Zeldas is more, meaningful, exploration i.e. being able to go places even if you can't access the dungeons in them yet and, most importantly, being able to find items in the overworld. In ALTTP you can get the Ice Rod (which is used in the penultimate dungeon), the medals (used to access some dungeons), the Cape etc. In Link's Awakening there's that exchange game, the shell sword and shield powerups, the bow and shovel from the shop. I guess I see the first scene of the original Zelda as the promise of the series: if you walk into that cave you can find interesting things (items!)

The later Zeldas feel more dependent on the "see half the dungeon, get item, use every riddle with item" template although that might be nostalgia speaking.

The other major factor for me in Zeldas is that items need to have multiple uses. For instance the spinning cog in Twilight Princess was very cool in its dungeon and then... nothing. Same for the ball and chain.

I have to admit though that Nintendo keeps tinkering with Zelda even though its big-tent profile makes it hard to do so and even though I do get a sense of deja vu now and then. I take as good signs:

*ALBW shook up the formula by allowing you access to items outside of dungeons
*Skyward Sword gave Link greater mobility and tried to make the overworld (on the ground) more interesting even though by turning it into a puzzle it made it feel more constrained. (I haven't finished it due to a bug)
*Twilight Princess shows that it was rushed and it often took the road more followed, massive but empty overworld etc. but it did two things well: Its world was more cohesive and it managed to give old items a new breath of air - the Iron Boots (!) and the Bow became interesting and the double hookshot was a breath of fresh air. It felt overly long at times, but the dungeons were fantastic.

So yeah, I'd love to see some changes to the formula and I think Aonuma could do it - he followed Ocarina of Time with Majora's Mask, which was a major upset to the formula, after all.
posted by ersatz at 1:51 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]




The other major factor for me in Zeldas is that items need to have multiple uses. For instance the spinning cog in Twilight Princess was very cool in its dungeon and then... nothing.

Well there was one other use. A hilariously obvious use, that trail in the overworld with cog rails on the walls. "Huh, I wonder what I'm supposed to use here!"
posted by JHarris at 3:03 PM on June 11


Per last year's E3, I purchased a PS4 as quickly as I could, solely so that I could play Kingdom Hearts 3. Still waiting. I don't even NEED a goddamn console, I have at least two PCs that will run anything at max frame rate. MAKE THIS GAME FOR ME.
posted by Purposeful Grimace at 3:24 PM on June 11


(I haven't finished it due to a bug)

If this is THAT bug, check the Channels section of the Wii Shop Channel, there's a free download there to fix bugged Skyward Sword saves.
posted by JHarris at 3:31 PM on June 11


The thing I miss about older Zeldas is more, meaningful, exploration i.e. being able to go places even if you can't access the dungeons in them yet and, most importantly, being able to find items in the overworld. In ALTTP you can get the Ice Rod (which is used in the penultimate dungeon), the medals (used to access some dungeons), the Cape etc.

I hear ya.

The thing here is, all these games have an intrinsic structure of nested areas of accessibility. Earlier games could also rely on difficulty to gradually increase player exploration range. Like, in Metroid, you can Norfair and Kraid's Lair pretty early, but you're going to have a tough time surviving unless you've picked up at least a couple of energy tanks. Likewise, in Zelda, those three hearts you start with mean you die after taking just six hits in a game where you're frequently taking damage. Those fairy fountains are lifesavers to new players, giving them a region to explore outward from. Later games, by being much less difficult, have to use a stronger sequence locking system to prevent the player from finishing late dungeons right off the bat.

The later Zeldas feel more dependent on the "see half the dungeon, get item, use every riddle with item" template although that might be nostalgia speaking.

It is not. I've speed run the original Zelda many times (I'm not particularly serious about it so a good time for me is sub-hour), and you can do all kinds of crazy things there if you're good enough. The Magic Key, which obsoletes all dungeon keys found throughout all the rest of the game, is free for the taking with two normal keys and a bomb in Level 8. The catch is that you have to clear a room of Blue Darknuts to get it and then traverse a couple other rooms of strong enemies (one of which is a Blue Gohma, needing the Bow and the Arrow) which is difficult even for very good players. The current world record time starts off in Level 3 to get the Raft, then goes to Level 4 to get the Ladder, which are the two primary sequence blockers in the game. There are others (Bow, Silver Arrow, Whistle, the Triforce pieces needed for Level 9) but nearly half the dungeons (2, 6, 7, 8) don't have an item other than the Triforce piece that you need to win. Zelda II was the game that changed this, although I have gone as far as traversing Death Mountain and getting the Hammer before going back and doing Level 1. (That's right, it is possible to finish it without the Candle. It is very hard though.)

The other major factor for me in Zeldas is that items need to have multiple uses. For instance the spinning cog in Twilight Princess was very cool in its dungeon and then... nothing. Same for the ball and chain.

It's not just multiple uses, it's....

Well, this is something I've thought about for a long time. Basically, it is a job of the game designer to misdirect the player as to the nature of the game. There is a level of deception there. Part of that is presenting the game world as a place that has a life outside of just being a course for the player to navigate. A dungeon isn't supposed to be a place that guides the player to the solution, even if for gameplay purposes it should be. It was supposedly made by forces that at best are apathetic to, and at worst want to kill, the player's character. The overworld isn't supposed to appear to be a nested system of exploration areas. By its nature it has to be, for design purposes, but the player is supposed to feel like he's on an adventure, not walking through a guided tour.

Item design is another part of this. Most items in earlier Zeldas present the combat or utility applications of items as the primary uses, and the navigation use as secondary. This is not something that's consistent throughout the series (the Ladder and Raft, for instance, are mostly navigational) but by downplaying the essentialness of items, the game feels more "organic," a term I try to avoid, but is useful here to describe something in the sense of seeming natural instead of artificial. It doesn't matter to the overt design of the game, but it does help with the illusion of adventuring, which is part of the great founding fiction of video gaming.
posted by JHarris at 4:03 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]


Of all the companies to pull the "adding female characters is too much extra work" line, Ubisoft has to be the most ridiculous. Look at the insane amounts of content they create for games like Assassin's Creed, Far Cry, and Watch Dogs.

"That island gave you an enormous area to explore, right? Well guess what? There's an entire second island that's even bigger! Oh, but adding female characters would have been way too much work."
posted by straight at 5:35 PM on June 11


The Magic Key, which obsoletes all dungeon keys found throughout all the rest of the game, is free for the taking with two normal keys and a bomb in Level 8

Do games like this still work in a post-GameFAQs world, though? Directions to warp zones that used to be passed around in hurried whispers in schoolyards are now the top promoted results in Google searches.

...I'm exaggerating.

I came to MeFi today to find the Nintendo-won-E3 thread, but found a Halo thread, instead. Some word counts from this thread, not including the original post:

Halo: 14
Microsoft: 4
Xbox: 8
Sony: 9
Wii: 22
Nintendo: 32
Zelda: 65
posted by tapesonthefloor at 6:18 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]


It's a valid concern, the Zelda design thing, and worth keeping in mind tapesonthefloor. But FAQs are above all game ruiners, it is not a good idea to pay too much attention to their existence, especially in a game like the original Zelda, which is a lot more about the journey than the destination.

And anyway, most people don't get the Magic Key out of level 8 early because you have to clear a room of Blue Darknuts to get it, which people find plenty hard enough even when encountered in the "official" route through the game, let alone when you only have three or four hearts. It does make the game a lot more interesting to speedrunners though. Zelda sometimes seems like it was made for speedrunning, there's all kinds of awesome stuff you can do there to hurry through it.
posted by JHarris at 8:59 PM on June 11


tapesonthefloor: "I came to MeFi today to find the Nintendo-won-E3 thread, but found a Halo thread, instead."

It started out as a Halo thread, because I love Halo to a disturbing degree and this was glorious, beyond-all-wildest-expectations news in that fandom, but I reckoned the bigger story was Microsoft more or less reversing the ridiculous amounts of self-inflicted damage from last year's E3 with this one announcement. There were many, many quarters of the web that had a serious chip on their shoulder regarding the Xbone that were suddenly (begrudgingly) calling this a killer app and system seller, myself included. Halo has probably single-handedly saved the Xbox here (again).

That, and it's funny how Bungie's newest project will be competing directly with the resurrection of their own glory days. No pressure!

Also:

Grim Fandango: 43
posted by Rhaomi at 8:59 PM on June 11


If this is THAT bug, check the Channels section of the Wii Shop Channel, there's a free download there to fix bugged Skyward Sword saves.

It's not that bug where you can do three quests in order; in the desert/time-travel area (er, been a while) when I meet a certain enemy, Link starts going right on his own. Triforce of courage, ha! Actually I suspect the nunchuck might be bust, so I'll be giving it another try at some point.

the player is supposed to feel like he's on an adventure, not walking through a guided tour.


Certainly. It's a reason why I liked the Twilight Princess dungeons: the best of them were disorienting and it felt like the dungeon was a bad place to be that you stumbled in and had to make do instead of a fancy knot unraveled by pulling at the right point (which they all ultimately are). I agree with your point about the utility/exploration potential of items.

As for difficulty keeping exploration in check, it also makes it feel more rewarding. One of the best thing about Zeldas is when you can discover dungeons and do them in any order because it preserves the feeling of exploration. You stumble upon the second dungeon in Zelda and nothing prevents you from going in and finishing it, no owl landing on your head to point you to dungeon number one. ALTTP gives you some leeway in the dark world too. Want to go to #6 after #2? Be the game's guest if you can survive!
posted by ersatz at 4:17 AM on June 12


Re: Kingdom Hearts 3

Hate to break this to you, guys, but that's the game scheduled for the team to work on after they wrap up Final Fantasy Versus XIII XV--the most vapourous vapourware title that doesn't star a blond in sunglasses.

The two pieces of KH3 footage they've shown so far are hilariously exactly like those Kickstarter fund-my-game trailers: Old enemy assets and animations rigged into the new renderer Square-Enix uses. All it says is "we have a few guys and some concept artists assigned to this while the rest of the team continues to get Nomura's disaster into releasable shape". Said disaster didn't even get a mention at this year's E3. That's the state of things.

In happier news: Sony just released this short documentary on Schafer and Grim Fandango. From what it mentions in the video and from other sources, it sounds like Sony put up some money and helped Double-Fine negotiate the rights from Disney in exchange for timed exclusivity. Seems fair to me.
posted by whittaker at 11:23 AM on June 12


That link is broken. The documentary is here.
posted by aubilenon at 11:34 AM on June 12 [1 favorite]


ALTTP gives you some leeway in the dark world too. Want to go to #6 after #2? Be the game's guest if you can survive!

Elements of this persist as late as Ocarina. Adult Link's dungeons can be done in multiple orders without the use of glitches even, although the game strongly suggests an order, and by doing them in the suggested order some things can be done that are not strictly necessary.
posted by JHarris at 1:20 PM on June 12


Oh fantastic! Everybody's Gone to the Rapture was a palpable no-show at the Sony press conference but hey, a couple days later and a new trailer and details drop for it!
Rapture is inspired by the fiction of John Wyndham, J. G. Ballard, John Christopher and other authors who deal with ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances. There’s a very particular English feel that we wanted to capture in the game, a combination of the epic and the intimate. Rapture also came from our obsession with post-apocalyptic gaming, and the simple idea that whilst we normally play as the hero, in reality, most of us would be the piles of ash and bone littering the game world. That’s an interesting place to start telling a story.
...and this time I tested the link first.
posted by whittaker at 1:27 PM on June 12


Is Jurrasic Mark going to be in it?
posted by JHarris at 1:32 PM on June 12


Boy y'all sure are using a bunch of odd words to describe what i can only imagine is our shared excitement for the new Mirror's Edge game.
posted by softlord at 4:40 PM on June 19 [3 favorites]




Huzzah!
posted by Elementary Penguin at 2:14 AM on July 10


« Older 40 Maps about food in America   |   Not Alone. Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments



Post