Join 3,424 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)


Why do we have blood types?
July 15, 2014 5:01 PM   Subscribe

"Isn't it amazing?" says Ajit Varki, a biologist at the University of California, San Diego. "Almost a hundred years after the Nobel Prize was awarded for this discovery, we still don't know exactly what they're for."
Popular science writer Carl Zimmer investigates: Why do we have blood types?

Topics covered include Karl Landsteiner's Nobel-winning discovery of blood groups in 1901, the history of blood transfusion, the total lack of scientific evidence underpinning "noted naturopath" Peter D'Adamo's bestselling book Eat Right 4 Your Type, non-human blood types, and the ultra-rare Hh blood group, also known as the Bombay phenotype.

Carl Zimmer previously.
posted by divined by radio (64 comments total) 48 users marked this as a favorite

 
I always assumed it was just random mutations, and since it didn't have any effect until the age of transfusions, there wasn't any evolutionary pressure. Didn't realize they had actually found some differences in disease resistance.
posted by tavella at 5:23 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]


I still don't know mine. I know it doesn't do that thing with the mother of my child. Mostly because that thing never happened during pregnancy.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:28 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]


Note this article offers no plausible theories on "why" we have blood types. There's a gene that codes for it, that's what we know. There is a section on some phrenology-level nonsense of blood type diets and ancestry that should be ignored if you want to read science.
posted by Nelson at 5:32 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I don't know mine, either. I had a transfusion once, but I was too out of it to ask them what the type was when they typed it.

Frankly, I'm surprised that there aren't more differences like blood types. Heck, maybe there are, and we just haven't found them yet because there hasn't been a reason for us to investigate.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:33 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]


You know who else haz blood types?
posted by grounded at 5:34 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]


Yay, Rh- kid here. Having kids is gonna be a wild ride for me. :P
posted by Hermione Granger at 5:35 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]


I just find it hilarious that the Wikipedia article on the Hh blood group has that "In Popular Culture" section.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:36 PM on July 15


You might as well ask why we have eye colors.
posted by dilaudid at 5:37 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]


I just find it hilarious that the Wikipedia article on the Hh blood group has that "In Popular Culture" section.

There's a popular belief in Japan that your blood type determines your personality. I'd imagine an anime character with Hh blood was super special and different, like getting your very own house at Hogwarts.
posted by Metroid Baby at 5:52 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]


These mutations have turned blood types from A or B to O. “There are hundreds of ways of being type O,” says Westhoff.

Type O blood only comprises about 40 percent of the population. And that if there are hundreds of ways to mutate to type O, there's a high likelihood of A/B parents with O offpsring, compared with type O parents having A/B kids.

So the question then is why A or B genotypes are so highly preserved. My best layman guess was improved immune cell recognition, but the article suggests that O is better for that. And of course the article's conclusion is correct, but its not very satisfying to anyone familiar with the Red Queen Hypothesis. What I'm curious about is the nature of that selective force -- is it an omnipresent threat, or a series of black swan events like the Spanish Influenza?
posted by pwnguin at 5:52 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]


A French doctor injected calf’s blood into a madman, who promptly started to sweat and vomit and produce urine the colour of chimney soot. After another transfusion the man died.

Hmm, a puzzling case. Perhaps they should have tried a third transfusion to see if it brought him back to life.
posted by The Tensor at 5:54 PM on July 15 [14 favorites]


what do you all think of the idea of eat according to your blood type?
posted by robbyrobs at 6:02 PM on July 15


It's so those of us who are universal donors can look down on the rest of you.
posted by sexyrobot at 6:06 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]


From the description of Eat Right For Your Type:

Noted naturopathic physician

You could stop reading right there and be relatively confident it's quackery, but the whole idea is also nonsense.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:07 PM on July 15 [12 favorites]


This article upset me so much I cut my hand open with an obsidian blade and swore a blood oath to never read science journalism ever again.

There's at least 30 "blood types" that I know of, more properly referred to as minor antigens, here's a fairly concise table.

Which was extracted from the main article here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3245102/


Last medical conference the researchers got a little drunk and were wildly prophesying that there are at least ten more antigens involved in Blood Transfusions Gone Slightly Wrong.

ABO and Rhesus are definitely the big ones, though. That shit'll kill ya.

Not mentioning at least Kell and Duffy factors before launching into a discourse focusing on ludicrous flights of fancy really casts considerable doubt on the author's assertion they performed research on this topic.
posted by hobo gitano de queretaro at 6:09 PM on July 15 [22 favorites]


It's so those of us who are universal donors can look down on the rest of you.

The universal recipients are thinking the same thing!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 6:14 PM on July 15 [4 favorites]


what do you all think of the idea of eat according to your blood type?

Did you read the article? Or the rest of the original post? Or the comments?
posted by Nelson at 6:26 PM on July 15


Did you read the article? Or the rest of the original post? Or the comments?

Oh dear. Their comment seems to have gotten a reaction. Perhaps it was the wrong comment type?
posted by srboisvert at 6:37 PM on July 15 [8 favorites]


i meant to ask if anyone here actually followed the eat for your blood type and would comment on their experience
posted by robbyrobs at 6:39 PM on July 15


robbyrobs, anecdotal experience is about the worst way to evaluate medical practices.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 6:47 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]


I ate for my blood type and gained 50lbs! Thanks Obama!
posted by blue_beetle at 6:52 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]


This probably deserves a pull-quote, because some idiot published a stupid book years ago and mislead so many people, and the actual correction will reach so of those misinformed people:
The researchers did find, in fact, that some of the diets could do people some good. People who stuck to the type A diet, for example, had lower body mass index scores, smaller waists and lower blood pressure. People on the type O diet had lower triglycerides. The type B diet – rich in dairy products – provided no benefits.

“The catch,” says El-Sohemy, “is that it has nothing to do with people’s blood type.” In other words, if you have type O blood, you can still benefit from a so-called type A diet just as much as someone with type A blood – probably because the benefits of a mostly vegetarian diet can be enjoyed by anyone. Anyone on a type O diet cuts out lots of carbohydrates, with the attending benefits of this being available to virtually everyone. Likewise, a diet rich in dairy products isn’t healthy for anyone – no matter their blood type.
posted by Llama-Lime at 6:54 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]


But what about vampires? Can they eat any blood type?

O- here. I'm universal but can't donate in the US due to briefly living in the UK during BSE/mad cow times.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 6:55 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]


My blood type is Diet Coke. I think.
posted by maxwelton at 7:11 PM on July 15 [5 favorites]


I'm A- and had a son who's O+, without complications. Thanks modern medicine!

When I used to donate blood when I was younger, I'd receive letters from the Japanese Red Cross asking me to donate within a certain deadline because they really needed my type. After fainting once while donating, though, they've apparently crossed me off their list.

My grandmother was A- too, and she had a story about getting a blood transfusion from her sister who was A+, back in the days when the Rh blood factor wasn't known yet. She survived it and also had two children without complications, so she always pshawed at the concept of the Rh system. It was something she mentioned in passing and I've never bothered to find out if something like that (transfusion from positive to negative) is possible... is it?
posted by misozaki at 7:29 PM on July 15 [1 favorite]


Not all variation comes from evolution. Sometimes there are other sources.
posted by zennie at 7:38 PM on July 15


My mom is AB-, which is ultra-ultra rare — less than 1% of the population — unless you are watching a television drama, in which case the apparent prevalence is 100%. She was immensely pleased when I informed her that this was duly covered on tvtropes.
posted by nev at 7:45 PM on July 15


Open access paper Evolution of primate ABO blood group genes and their homologous genes. (Mol Biol Evol).

It's a pretty ancient paper (1997), but the conclusions from phylogenetic reconstruction is that blood groups in primates arose a LOOONG time ago. Hundreds of millions of years ago. The authors suggest that blood groups may be something of an "accident" - the reason different blood groups arose and persisted may have something to do with differential responsiveness to different kinds of pathogens.

My perspective is that the immune system evolved from selection pressure to 1) be able to kill cells really well and 2) not kill oneself (autoimmune disorders). Some cells, like NK cells, are really darned good at killing other cells - NK cells are able to recognize "self" antigens and turn themselves off. The strong response against "non-self" blood groups may merely be an unfortunate side effect and possibly "bleed through" from the ability to detect xeno-antigens (non-self). Or possibly, perhaps, was an offbranch of an early system that was similar to HLA/MHC. Blood cells are one of the most numerically abundant cells in our bodies; being able to recognize these very abundant cells as "self" would definitely be beneficial given the way the immune system function had been selected to perform, up to that point.

Very recent paper, but not open access; Host-pathogen co-evolution and glycan interactions. Yeah, blood group glyco-antigens are useful evolutionarily in surviving different kinds of pathogens. The different frequencies of different histo-bloodgroup types could easily be postulated as arising from small-ish regional populations and local prevalence of specific pathogens (ie., smallpox nōnāgintāmated the indigenous peoples of the Americas).

(Sorry, I'm pretty drunk and heat-strokey. If anyone's really interested, I could probably be persuaded to do a better job at this.)
posted by porpoise at 8:04 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]


Noted naturopathic physician

You could stop reading right there and be relatively confident it's quackery, but the whole idea is also nonsense.


Why would that be? NDs take the same coursework and meet the same requirements (internship, residency) as MDs - they take classes in things like acupuncture on top of the standard medical school curriculum. Maybe you're thinking of homeopaths?

Note that this is not a defense of the blood type diet, which I'd never heard of but which does indeed sound silly.
posted by lunasol at 8:53 PM on July 15


My mom is AB-, which is ultra-ultra rare — less than 1% of the population — unless you are watching a television drama, in which case the apparent prevalence is 100%.

I've always wanted some show to go:
"It's an emergency! What's his blood type?"
"O positive!"
"... Really? That common?"
"Yes, why?"
"Whenever I ask that, it's always, like AB negative or Q-antigen-three or some bullshit like that. I've never just had to do a simple transfusion before."
posted by Etrigan at 9:00 PM on July 15 [6 favorites]


Why would that be? NDs take the same coursework and meet the same requirements (internship, residency) as MDs

That may be true, but naturopathy is as quacky as you can get without being a duck. It full-on ignores science. So, yeah, as soon as you read those words you know you are dealing with total bullshit.

Trite but true: you know what they call alternative medicine that works?

Medicine.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:11 PM on July 15 [3 favorites]


Why do we need a theory to explain the difference in blood types? Isn't it possible that there was no selection effect before the invention of blood transfusion, so all we're seeing is the result of a few random mutations way back when? That theory seems to be more consistent with the fact that different blood types are more or less common in different populations than the idea that different blood types are preserved because they each offer different advantages.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:40 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]


I got an A+ on my blood test!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 10:24 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]


i meant to ask if anyone here actually followed the eat for your blood type and would comment on their experience.

I tried it, but I actually got the diet for a calf's blood type, which caused me to sweat, vomit up black bile, and pass urine the color of chimney soot. And then after the second meal, I died. So I really wouldn't recommend it.
posted by happyroach at 11:36 PM on July 15 [7 favorites]


Frankly, I'm surprised that there aren't more differences like blood types....

There are - tons of them in fact, which is why we aren't all pretty much clones of one another.

This is why it's so hard to find a match for transplants and why anti-rejection drugs exist., because unlike blood (which isn't going to be around for long) your body will eventually start making antibodies against anything sufficiently different for the immune system not to recognize as "self".
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:55 PM on July 15


NDs take the same coursework and meet the same requirements (internship, residency) as MDs - they take classes in things like acupuncture on top of the standard medical school curriculum.

The NIH says that residency isn't required.
      Naturopathic physicians generally complete a 4-year, graduate-level program at one of the North American naturopathic medical schools accredited by the Council on Naturopathic Medical Education, an organization recognized for accreditation purposes by the U.S. Department of Education. Admission requirements generally include a bachelor’s degree and standard premedical courses. The study program includes basic sciences, naturopathic therapies and techniques, diagnostic techniques and tests, specialty courses, clinical sciences, and clinical training. Graduates receive the degree of N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor) or N.M.D. (Naturopathic Medical Doctor), depending on where the degree is issued. Although postdoctoral (residency) training is not required, some graduates pursue residency opportunities.

      Some U.S. states and territories have licensing requirements for naturopathic physicians, but others do not. In those jurisdictions that have licensing requirements, naturopathic physicians must graduate from a 4-year naturopathic medical college and pass an examination to receive a license.¹ They must also fulfill annual continuing education requirements. Their scope of practice is defined by law in the state in which they practice (for example, depending on the state, naturopathic physicians may or may not be allowed to prescribe drugs, perform minor surgery, practice acupuncture, and/or assist in childbirth).

...

¹ In states that license naturopathic physicians, that title as well as “naturopathic doctor” or even “naturopath” may be protected by law for practitioners who have completed a 4-year naturopathic medical school program.
If it's really all the same training plus some additional courses it seems odd to me that it occurs at separate schools from the ones that other physicians attend.
posted by XMLicious at 12:20 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]


Why do we need a theory to explain the difference in blood types?

Because science likes to look at things we don't understand and do verifiable experiments to establish firm knowledge about them?

Finding those answers may yield nothing useful at all that helps us with medicine or culture or advancing anything about the existence of the universe and humans within it. Or it might, simply because asking the question "why?" and then searching for the answers is what has basically created the modern world out of its forerunner, full of superstition, conjecture, and ignorant faith.
posted by hippybear at 12:26 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]


Wikipedia has a very neutral* article on Naturopathy:
Practitioners of naturopathy often prefer methods of treatment that are not compatible with evidence-based medicine, and in doing so, reject the tenets of biomedicine and modern science. Naturopathic medicine is considered replete with pseudoscientific, ineffective, unethical, and possibly dangerous practices.[1]


*citation needed
posted by el io at 1:16 AM on July 16


I am O+. And occasionally borderline anemic.

You can't have any of my blood.

Unless you really need it, I guess. And I've had my iron pills.
posted by RainyJay at 1:29 AM on July 16


I'm B+. Not just a blood group, a way of life!
posted by h00py at 3:09 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]


Maybe you're thinking of homeopaths?

No, definitely thinking of naturopaths. Quackwatch on Naturopathy.

(Apparently, the leading Naturopathic school not only offers courses in homeopathy to its naturopathy students, but requires them to take three of them.)
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 3:16 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]


It's not mentioned in the linked article, but i've always loved the story of the man with the golden arm and anti-RhD immunoglobulin. Really cool stuff!
posted by jcm at 4:08 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]


Just got my test results back! Let's see, my blood type is...W?

Oh, right...the werewolf thing
posted by clockzero at 4:57 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]


I thought a naturopath is someone who suffers from a nature-related ailment, e.g. taking a walk in the forest and having a tree fall on you.
posted by Dr Dracator at 6:07 AM on July 16


(Apparently, the leading Naturopathic school not only offers courses in homeopathy to its naturopathy students, but requires them to take three of them.)

duck duck duck duck duck duck duck duck
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:13 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]


Kutsuwamushi: " (Apparently, the leading Naturopathic school not only offers courses in homeopathy to its naturopathy students, but requires them to take three of them.)"

Well you know, they're watered down anyways.
posted by pwnguin at 8:45 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]


For those of you knocking the article for mentioning the blood-type diet, you realize that he is not defending his diet and talks about research that indicates there is no relation to blood type? No need to "stop reading" just because the topic is mentioned.
posted by mach at 8:57 AM on July 16


mach, read the comments again. that's not a response to the article, but to a book by a naturopath promoting the diet. someone in the thread asked about it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 9:31 AM on July 16


porpoise - Sorry, I'm pretty drunk and heat-strokey. If anyone's really interested, I could probably be persuaded to do a better job at this.
Yes. Next time, really try to get drunk *without* the heatstroke. It's worth getting the knack, I promise.

Seriously though, that was very interesting. I'd love to read more if you're in the mood to write.
posted by metaBugs at 9:50 AM on July 16


You can check the pre-reqs and the curriculum for a ND program from the National College of Natural medicine. The pre-reqs look comparable with any other pre-med/pre-nursing/general health sciences track. The curriculum isn't too far off from a regular med school (e.g., Stanford), but seems to spend more time covering basic bio/chem and mixing in a lot of nonsense like "Botanical Materia Medica" and "Homeopathy," which I'm sure cuts into the time available for learning things that would actually be useful.
posted by Panjandrum at 9:52 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]


There's a popular belief in Japan that your blood type determines your personality.

China, too. My mother, who is otherwise as absurdly pragmatic as it's possible to be and who has a Ph.D. in microbiology to boot, is thoroughly convinced that she can tell the blood types of my friends and significant others based on their personalities. Since most of my friends born and raised in the West have no idea what their blood types are, there's really no way of verifying this "skill" of hers.

I'd be curious to know if East Asian cultures are more aware of their own blood type because of the personality superstition, or vice versa. Like, maybe people are more aware of their own blood types in East Asian countries because it's something that's more relevant to hospital care for whatever reason, and the concept of blood-type-as-horoscope arose as an afterthought.
posted by Phire at 10:08 AM on July 16


So I've been feeling guilty for snarking early on this article and again on the repeated question about the quack book.

"Why do we have blood types?" is a fascinating topic. It's a great example of how much we've learned about biology, medicine, genetics and yet still don't know fundamental things. It also drives to the essential teleological fallacy of current thinking on evolution, the idea that everything evolved has a purpose. In practice that often has turned out to be true, in this case it's unclear.

So then the article itself is just so disappointing. The first half covers basic history that hopefully most of us learned in high school. Then there's a big section on a completely nonsensical naturopath diet which has no place in a science article. I guess the author felt the need to debunk a popular theory his readers may have heard of? Whatever the case it just derails the discussion, as it's done here. At least the article concludes with some interesting discussion about disease links and some open questions.

I just want more. Intelligent science reporting. I realize that's a bit of a snobby attitude, sorry.
posted by Nelson at 10:08 AM on July 16


I mean, it's like if an astronomy article about the formation of the solar system had a whole section explaining how it gave rise to astrology.
posted by Nelson at 10:09 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]


As sincerely as possible (hand on my heart, zero snark): Maybe it's worth remembering that not everyone is as smart or well-educated as you are?

I get that it's frustrating for you to have to (?) read what you've repeatedly dismissed as unsophisticated, dumbed-down non-journalism, particularly regarding subjects you believe we -- royal we -- should already understand, but the reason I posted this FPP is because I knew nothing about the topic and thought the article did a fine job of lightly and approachably touching on a number of extremely interesting topics without delving into impenetrably thick academic language. (Also, I had/have a secret wish that MeFi's myriad scientists will come in to drop some of their sekrit knowledge. Hint, hint.)

I didn't learn about any of this stuff in high school and I didn't go to college. Not everyone has access to the level and quality of education required to readily know about stuff like blood groups. But even dummies like me still like to read and learn. I thought the article was great, and still do; I'm sorry if a lack of erudition offends your educated sensibilities.

With that said, if you have some superlative insight or links to share, please do; porpoise did so above and I would love to hear more!
posted by divined by radio at 10:36 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]


I have a blood-related condition for which the recommended treatment is regularly donating blood. So I go in to the local blood bank every 2 months and get my free snacks in a recliner. I've got O+ blood, so occasionally they'll call me to ask for donations, which makes no sense since they know I can't go in more regularly than I already am.
posted by hootenatty at 10:44 AM on July 16


I'm B-.

I guess being a goth for most of my life makes sense now.
posted by starscream at 12:33 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]


Fair enough, divined by radio, and I apologize for being a snob.

One topic that interests me is the distribution of ABO blood types around the world. This Wikipedia article has a nice table with some handy maps that shows some broad trends, but there's quite a lot of mixing. This other Wikipedia article has some hypotheses on the spread of types, with some good citations for further reading.

I'm also curious about the distribution of Rh- / Rh+. Unlike ABO, the Rhesus factor has a very large selective pressure. I wasn't able to find any good info on a quick search; Google is dominated by insane pages about reptilians and aliens. (No, really). I'm way outside my field and not competent to figure it out.
posted by Nelson at 1:42 PM on July 16


Well you know, they're watered down anyways.

But they still contain the memory of medical science.
posted by flyingfox at 1:58 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]


I'd be curious to know if East Asian cultures are more aware of their own blood type because of the personality superstition, or vice versa. Like, maybe people are more aware of their own blood types in East Asian countries because it's something that's more relevant to hospital care for whatever reason, and the concept of blood-type-as-horoscope arose as an afterthought.

The history of the idea in Japan is pretty interesting.

It arose in the 1920s as part of the racist pseudo-science popular at the time, pushed largely by a professor named Takeji Furukawa. It fell out of favor in the 30s, then was revived again in the 1970s by a lawyer named Masahiko Nomi who published a number of popular books on the topic in that decade.

For whatever reason the idea stuck and grew, and spread to the rest of Asia.

Perhaps you could dissuade your mother from this belief in blood types by explaining its origin in Japanese racial imperialism. One of Furukawa's studies to support his blood type ideas was on the native population of Taiwan to "explain" a recent anti-Japanese rebellion; he found that 41.2% of the population had Type O and determined that their reblliousness must be genetic, recommending inter-marriage with the natives to cure this.
posted by Sangermaine at 2:01 PM on July 16


I think debunking the naturopath diet was completely appropriate. There is lots of nonsense out there (that book sold millions of copies) and good science journalists can and should push back.
posted by Area Man at 2:11 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]


Not much more to add other than to give mad props to PubMed and publishers with open access papers. When you get your search results, there's a filter on the left shows only open access (free!) articles.

Ancestry runs deeper than blood: The evolutionary history of ABO points to cryptic variation of functional importance (2013 Bioessays.)

From the paper, the short answer is that we don't really know, but the statistical distribution of blood groups geographically (and very likely, over time) don't make sense if there was random selection, so blood groups must contribute to genetic fitness1. Suggested population fitness gains from having a bunch of different blood groups involve protection from pathogens and parasites.

We co-evolved with the microbes that live on and inside of us. Very simplistically, it's like rock paper scissors (or RPSLS). With poop. We live with a lot of bacteria in our guts and it gets out in the environment. We also get a lot of this environmental bacteria come live with us. We share them with everyone around us. Usually the bugs and us help each other out, but sometimes a bug gets greedy and takes more than we get from them, so we get sick. However, most of the time when a bug goes bad, they're taking advantage of something. In the analogy, bad bug throws scissors and it works on paper. Paper gets sick, but bug gets more free throws (or something) and keeps throwing scissors. Over time, there will be less paper people and more rock people (but a fractionally steady level of tie-inducing scissors people) and bug will then start winning less, and there are overall more "fit" people than if everyone was affected equally).

1or just be close to a gene that is selected for and happens to tag along more often than not. Unlikely here, though.
posted by porpoise at 9:02 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]


Then rock bugs start getting uppity and decimates the scissor people who've just been minding their own business all this time.

Or stranger from another community brings some super paper bugs, takes a poop upstream, and all those now-common rock people get super duper sick (since each person who gets sick makes a hundred more successful bugs/free bug rolls). Stranger Danger!
posted by porpoise at 9:10 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]


It's so nice to read an article that gives the name of the fact checker at the end. More places should make that standard practice, I think, although perhaps I just don't read enough science pieces.
posted by forgetful snow at 4:28 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]


I took 3 semesters of homeopathic medicine. The professor only taught for one class. And whispered the whole time.
posted by sexyrobot at 3:03 PM on July 19 [3 favorites]


« Older A dynamic map of world history since 3000 BC. Link...  |  'Dance party USA teeny bopper'... Newer »


You are not currently logged in. Log in or create a new account to post comments.