Cold calling
September 18, 2014 5:21 AM Subscribe
The Grandparent Scam
Every day, phones are ringing in homes across the country. Maybe yours. On the line: organized teams of con artists trying to bilk you out of thousands of dollars by impersonating your loved ones.
I tend to think of these as "personal theater." A good performance is worth a little cash.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
This happened to a client of mine, a lady in her 80s who is very smart and savvy, which is why I was a bit surprised when she told me what had happened. In her case, she got a call from someone claiming to be her grandson and telling her he had been arrested in Mexico and needed $500 sent as soon as possible. As she told it to me, her grandson is the sort who might actually find himself in a Mexican jail, so she thought nothing of it and wired the money immediately.
posted by briank at 5:53 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by briank at 5:53 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
Happened to my parents. Fortunately they had the good sense to contact other family members before replying.
> ..."personal theater." A good performance is worth a little cash.
No. Fuck those guys. I hope they get into horrible car wrecks and their family members had become too cynical to respond in their time of need.
posted by ardgedee at 5:58 AM on September 18, 2014 [63 favorites]
> ..."personal theater." A good performance is worth a little cash.
No. Fuck those guys. I hope they get into horrible car wrecks and their family members had become too cynical to respond in their time of need.
posted by ardgedee at 5:58 AM on September 18, 2014 [63 favorites]
Scammer: Hi Grandpa, do you recognise my voice?
My Retired Guy Friend thinks to himself, "I have no children. Therefore I have no grandchildren. My other retired guy friends told me about this scam."
My Retired Guy Friend says to the scammer, "Yeah, and I'm so sick of hearing about your drinking and drugging and gambling that I have written you right out of my will!"
*click*
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 6:03 AM on September 18, 2014 [98 favorites]
My Retired Guy Friend thinks to himself, "I have no children. Therefore I have no grandchildren. My other retired guy friends told me about this scam."
My Retired Guy Friend says to the scammer, "Yeah, and I'm so sick of hearing about your drinking and drugging and gambling that I have written you right out of my will!"
*click*
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 6:03 AM on September 18, 2014 [98 favorites]
I deal with a variation on these scumbags occasionally, as I have elderly clients. Most recently there was a call center in India claiming to be the IRS, threatening to send sheriffs, seize property, deportation, etc. This happens a lot.
The IRS sends letters; they don't make phone calls for money.
If you want to waste their time, I encourage you to call 888-393-2421 and jerk them around for hours (if that number is even working any more).
posted by leotrotsky at 6:14 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
The IRS sends letters; they don't make phone calls for money.
If you want to waste their time, I encourage you to call 888-393-2421 and jerk them around for hours (if that number is even working any more).
posted by leotrotsky at 6:14 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Seems similar to the "Stranded in London" spam that I've gotten from a few different friends who've had their email accounts hacked.
posted by octothorpe at 6:18 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 6:18 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
When I was in college, a woman called and asked for me by name and pretended to be my mother. I was living off-campus at the time but I think my number was in the student directory. This was years before caller ID was a thing.
The voice was close enough to my mom's to confuse me. She delivered an abusive message and kept going until I realized that the words used were completely out of character for my mom, the tone of voice wasn't quite right, and the caller was a fraud. At that point I hung up on her. To this day it's one of the creepiest things that's ever happened to me.
Throw the book at the creeps, if you can catch 'em.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [10 favorites]
The voice was close enough to my mom's to confuse me. She delivered an abusive message and kept going until I realized that the words used were completely out of character for my mom, the tone of voice wasn't quite right, and the caller was a fraud. At that point I hung up on her. To this day it's one of the creepiest things that's ever happened to me.
Throw the book at the creeps, if you can catch 'em.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 6:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [10 favorites]
What surprises me most about this isn't that the grandparents could be fooled into believing it's their grandson, or that some scammer would do something so heartless. What surprises me most is that the grandfather actually sent money.
Let me clear about this right now, future grandchildren and future scammers: If you drink and drive, I'm leaving your ass in jail.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [16 favorites]
Let me clear about this right now, future grandchildren and future scammers: If you drink and drive, I'm leaving your ass in jail.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [16 favorites]
My grandparents got one of these a year or two back, about my oldest brother who was in jail with a DUI (My brother is, in fact, a teetotaler, lives several states away and would sure as shit not have called my grandparents for cash in that situation). Luckily my grandma is sharp enough to ask some probing questions and whoever was on the line hung up, but I can't imagine what would've happened if she'd been more trusting (or if my brother'd been more of a fuckup).
posted by dismas at 6:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
posted by dismas at 6:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
This is actually so pervasive in japan that there are signs at all of the ATMs insisting that you make sure you definitely know who's on the other end of the line before wiring them cash. It's actually known here as "ore-ore sagi," or the "it's me, it's me" scam. Not surprised but not particularly pleased to hear it's catching on in America too.
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:21 AM on September 18, 2014 [24 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 6:21 AM on September 18, 2014 [24 favorites]
Scammer: Hi Grandpa, do you recognise my voice?
My Retired Guy Friend thinks to himself, "I have no children. Therefore I have no grandchildren. My other retired guy friends told me about this scam."
My Retired Guy Friend says to the scammer, "Yeah, and I'm so sick of hearing about your drinking and drugging and gambling that I have written you right out of my will!"
I'm just picturing the confused look on the face of the poor guy who called his grandfather and accidentally dialed the wrong number.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:22 AM on September 18, 2014 [20 favorites]
My Retired Guy Friend thinks to himself, "I have no children. Therefore I have no grandchildren. My other retired guy friends told me about this scam."
My Retired Guy Friend says to the scammer, "Yeah, and I'm so sick of hearing about your drinking and drugging and gambling that I have written you right out of my will!"
I'm just picturing the confused look on the face of the poor guy who called his grandfather and accidentally dialed the wrong number.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:22 AM on September 18, 2014 [20 favorites]
Japan has a lot of trouble with these. Between the very large population of elderly, and the habit of keeping large amounts of cash in the home, a lot of people have been taken in by this. Here, they're called Ore Ore scams ("It's me, it's me").
Or, on preview, beaten to it Herr DoctorFedora.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:23 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
Or, on preview, beaten to it Herr DoctorFedora.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:23 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
My girlfriend experienced a variant of this last year. We were woken up early, around six a.m., by a phone call from an unlisted number to my girlfriend's phone. The voice on the other end claimed to be her mother. In frail-sounding, quiet tones (presumably the scammer was trying to disguise his or her voice), the scammer told my girlfriend that her mother had been raped and abducted, and that she must do whatever "the man" wants in order to ensure her mother's safety. Luckily, my girlfriend had the presence of mind to ask her for some identifying information, at which point the caller hung up. Of course, she immediately called her actual mother to verify everything was OK too.
> I tend to think of these as "personal theater." A good performance is worth a little cash.
I wouldn't call that entertainment.
posted by sloafmaster at 6:29 AM on September 18, 2014 [22 favorites]
> I tend to think of these as "personal theater." A good performance is worth a little cash.
I wouldn't call that entertainment.
posted by sloafmaster at 6:29 AM on September 18, 2014 [22 favorites]
My mom is 99, and she got one from my "son." It was the Mexican jail one. The only thing that saved her was that she doesn't know how to wire money. She called me, even though my "son" told her I'd be mad, and I said "I'm pretty sure he's not in Mexico. I'll call him." He was in VA, as expected.
I'm with ardgedee. This scam is not "worth a few bucks," and bad things should happen to the people doing it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
I'm with ardgedee. This scam is not "worth a few bucks," and bad things should happen to the people doing it.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
This sort of bullshit is a good part of why I am so relieved we finally got my mom into an Alzheimer's care center. I'm sure she probably fell prey to a few of the door-to-door scammers, but as far as I can tell, no one hit her for all she was worth.
As far as I'm concerned, there is no punishment severe enough for these low-lifes. As pacifistic as I try to be, operators like these make me lean toward being ok with street justice.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
As far as I'm concerned, there is no punishment severe enough for these low-lifes. As pacifistic as I try to be, operators like these make me lean toward being ok with street justice.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:36 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
operators like these make me lean toward being ok with street justice.
Not even so much street justice as old fashioned justice. Pillories, stocks, maybe the chopping off of a hand here and there.
also obvsly wicker mans
posted by poffin boffin at 7:04 AM on September 18, 2014 [16 favorites]
Not even so much street justice as old fashioned justice. Pillories, stocks, maybe the chopping off of a hand here and there.
also obvsly wicker mans
posted by poffin boffin at 7:04 AM on September 18, 2014 [16 favorites]
It makes me so tired and sad and angry that money is the cause of so much heartache and duplicity and treating everyone so awfully. Maybe it's just because I'm getting older, but it seems like the whole world is involved in nothing else, and I mean nothing else but trying to see who can grab the most money from the most people in the most awful ways possible these days. Everywhere you turn, someone's trying to market to you or steal from you or sell to you.
Living in "the future" is cool in so many ways, but I don't know that I expected "the future" to mean that everything would be about taking, taking, taking.
posted by xingcat at 7:04 AM on September 18, 2014 [50 favorites]
Living in "the future" is cool in so many ways, but I don't know that I expected "the future" to mean that everything would be about taking, taking, taking.
posted by xingcat at 7:04 AM on September 18, 2014 [50 favorites]
It makes me wonder what kind of scam I'll be vulnerable to when I'm old but that will be obvious to anyone younger.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:14 AM on September 18, 2014 [28 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 7:14 AM on September 18, 2014 [28 favorites]
Ever since we had my mom's snailmail forwarded to our home, I've been enjoying the parade of mail scams older people regularly get. What I've been impressed with the most is the extent to which the scammers go to design their materials to look as "official" or "governmental" as possible, along with copywriting that comes as close to posing as a government representative as possible without actually claiming to be from the government. As a graphic designer, I can't help but feel a certain amount of respect for a lot of the mailings.
I think you will know you've reached old age when you start getting these in your mail. Sort of like getting your first AARP membership mailing.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
I think you will know you've reached old age when you start getting these in your mail. Sort of like getting your first AARP membership mailing.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:20 AM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
Another sad and dangerous aspect of this is that people really do get held hostage for cash by the courts and the system can really swallow you up if you don't play ball. We're going to hear about someone who gets railroaded to 30 years in solitary over a DUI because their grandpa thought it was the scam.
posted by bleep at 7:21 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
posted by bleep at 7:21 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
There's a wider story here, of course. One about generational inequality. Where 20- and 30-somethings have spent their lives being told that no, they can't rely on there being any jobs and yes, that'll be $160,000 for that college degree, and what do mean you might want to buy a house one day? Have children? Do you know how much that costs? Who then look at the older generation and see lives lived under a different dispensation: one of full employment and free tertiary education and an economic system that didn't automatically screw them over. As one of the scammers puts it in the article, "I figured people making $100,000 a year could lose a couple thousand here and there." So, while the familial connection between these "grandchildren" and their pseudo-grandparents might be a fictional one, the inequality in their access to economic resources reflects an underlying economic truth.
And then you think of how pathetically eager to help the scamees must be to fall victim to the scam in the first place, despite the fact that their grand-kids probably rarely call or respond to the birthday cards they receive each year or even think about them much, and the economic tragedy gains a human face.
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:25 AM on September 18, 2014 [24 favorites]
And then you think of how pathetically eager to help the scamees must be to fall victim to the scam in the first place, despite the fact that their grand-kids probably rarely call or respond to the birthday cards they receive each year or even think about them much, and the economic tragedy gains a human face.
posted by Sonny Jim at 7:25 AM on September 18, 2014 [24 favorites]
Yeah, i worry about my parents as well.
My dad, who used to be as frugal as heck now wants to be a bigshot and spend whatever money he has like an oil tycoon (it doesn't help that his three kids also do this, but they are just trying to prove that they are indeed successful)
every time I go over there, there's some new renovation that's done on the house, but the people I fear the most are those financial planners who come in with all these big promises and then disappear once they have your cash.
posted by bitteroldman at 7:27 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
My dad, who used to be as frugal as heck now wants to be a bigshot and spend whatever money he has like an oil tycoon (it doesn't help that his three kids also do this, but they are just trying to prove that they are indeed successful)
every time I go over there, there's some new renovation that's done on the house, but the people I fear the most are those financial planners who come in with all these big promises and then disappear once they have your cash.
posted by bitteroldman at 7:27 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
Dip Flash, Forbes had an article on that topic earlier this year, Why Do Elderly Parents Fall For Scams That Seem So Obvious To Us?
Their reasons were:
posted by filthy light thief at 7:27 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
Their reasons were:
- isolation and loneliness - any interaction is welcomed
- diminished cognition - the article notes that "at least a third of those aged 85 and above have dementia in some form"
- they feel financially insecure - this matters for lottery scams and the like, where more money is promised for a little money up front, or bank information to wire the funds from oversees or whatnot
posted by filthy light thief at 7:27 AM on September 18, 2014 [9 favorites]
One thing I wonder about this scam is how many calls they make before hitting on the right name to call their grandparents. There are tons of nicknames for grandparents, and if, for example, my daughter called my mother and called her something other than "Mormor" It would set off a red flag. I assume it's like so many scams that even if you try dozens or even hundreds of calls before getting one to fall for it it still pays off.
posted by TedW at 7:33 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by TedW at 7:33 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
I assume it's like so many scams that even if you try dozens or even hundreds of calls before getting one to fall for it it still pays off.
Like email scams, I think it is all about volume. That is why when any real questions are asked they immediately hang up: There is no point wasting a second longer with someone who you don't think will be a good mark.
But if the caller is fake-crying on the other end of the line, man, that could get exhausting as you plow through your call list.
posted by Theta States at 7:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Like email scams, I think it is all about volume. That is why when any real questions are asked they immediately hang up: There is no point wasting a second longer with someone who you don't think will be a good mark.
But if the caller is fake-crying on the other end of the line, man, that could get exhausting as you plow through your call list.
posted by Theta States at 7:44 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Not even so much street justice as old fashioned justice. Pillories, stocks, maybe the chopping off of a hand here and there.
Noses and lips are a good start.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:48 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Noses and lips are a good start.
posted by Pudhoho at 7:48 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
filthy light thief: excellent link. It's really easy to roll one's eyes at folks who get scammed... until it happens to you or a loved one.
Why does social engineering continue to work as a tactic? Because most people are predisposed to believe what they hear and NOT to be wary. I believe David McRaney (who really should be MeFi's own by now) covers this in one of his marvelous "You Are Now..." books.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 7:50 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Why does social engineering continue to work as a tactic? Because most people are predisposed to believe what they hear and NOT to be wary. I believe David McRaney (who really should be MeFi's own by now) covers this in one of his marvelous "You Are Now..." books.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 7:50 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
This scam plays a significant role in a new movie called Two Step.
posted by roll truck roll at 7:50 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by roll truck roll at 7:50 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I am heartily sorry for the difficulties me and my 3 brothers caused our parents growing up. But my siblings and I will take some credit for the finely-calibrated bullshit meter my 85 yo mom retains to this day.
posted by klarck at 7:54 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
posted by klarck at 7:54 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
We've been amazed by the number of vultures circling around my mom since she retired. She's not even dead yet, FFS!
She brought some of it on herself by sending money to some lottery scam in Australia, but old people are sitting ducks for this kind of thing. The part that pisses me off to no end is that there's little support for elderly people, and no recourse once they've been scammed. We've gone to the police and a couple of government agencies, and they offered no help at all. The only people who helped were the bank, who figured out what she was doing (because she lied about it) and suspended her chequing privileges.
We need to learn that there's a whole industry of online scammers waiting to prey on our parents, and when we're done with that, there's another industry of walk-up con men with vacuum cleaners and mortgage scams. Then there are the "legitimate" second mortgage providers who claim that "we don't want your house, we're just providing a service". No, they want the fucking house.
Old people are a growth industry!
posted by sneebler at 7:56 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
She brought some of it on herself by sending money to some lottery scam in Australia, but old people are sitting ducks for this kind of thing. The part that pisses me off to no end is that there's little support for elderly people, and no recourse once they've been scammed. We've gone to the police and a couple of government agencies, and they offered no help at all. The only people who helped were the bank, who figured out what she was doing (because she lied about it) and suspended her chequing privileges.
We need to learn that there's a whole industry of online scammers waiting to prey on our parents, and when we're done with that, there's another industry of walk-up con men with vacuum cleaners and mortgage scams. Then there are the "legitimate" second mortgage providers who claim that "we don't want your house, we're just providing a service". No, they want the fucking house.
Old people are a growth industry!
posted by sneebler at 7:56 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Like email scams, I think it is all about volume. That is why when any real questions are asked they immediately hang up: There is no point wasting a second longer with someone who you don't think will be a good mark.
I got a call on my office phone a few months back with a recorded message saying that because I had travelled through Pearson Airport recently, I had won a prize. Stay on the line to collect. Of course they're calling a Toronto number and there's no definition of "recently" given and how people define recently will be based on how often they fly. There's a decent chance they're correct on any given call that someone there has flown "recently."
So for my amusement I waited on the line and after being asked to confirm by pressing one or such that I wanted my prize, a real person came on the line and said and his jolliest voice "Good morning! Who might I be speaking to?" to which I (to my eternal regret) responded "You called me. You should know." Click.
Yeah, they're not wasting time on anyone who doesn't instantly respond to the scam. Next time I'll give a fake name and play along a while longer. Every minute they waste on me is a minute they're not taking money from someone else's grandma.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
I got a call on my office phone a few months back with a recorded message saying that because I had travelled through Pearson Airport recently, I had won a prize. Stay on the line to collect. Of course they're calling a Toronto number and there's no definition of "recently" given and how people define recently will be based on how often they fly. There's a decent chance they're correct on any given call that someone there has flown "recently."
So for my amusement I waited on the line and after being asked to confirm by pressing one or such that I wanted my prize, a real person came on the line and said and his jolliest voice "Good morning! Who might I be speaking to?" to which I (to my eternal regret) responded "You called me. You should know." Click.
Yeah, they're not wasting time on anyone who doesn't instantly respond to the scam. Next time I'll give a fake name and play along a while longer. Every minute they waste on me is a minute they're not taking money from someone else's grandma.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:05 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
If only I had a penguin: Next time I'll give a fake name and play along a while longer. Every minute they waste on me is a minute they're not taking money from someone else's grandma.In the New Batman, Bruce Wayne sits in his lair all day intercepting cold calls, tying up scammers' time with obfuscatory and confusing emails, and saving innocent bystanders from falling victim to an array of astonishing and lurid cyber crimes. And then maybe sits back with a Coke afterwards and plays a bit of Minecraft. Coming this fall!
posted by Sonny Jim at 8:14 AM on September 18, 2014 [12 favorites]
I tend to think of these as "personal theater." A good performance is worth a little cash.
I sincerely wish you would expand on your position here.
posted by the bricabrac man at 8:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I sincerely wish you would expand on your position here.
posted by the bricabrac man at 8:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
It always makes me nervous when I see people who seem a little too confident that they'd never be defrauded. I mean, sure, there are some pretty transparent scams out there, but there are also a LOT of scams out there, and they don't all seem absurd on their face.
We can all read the article over our coffee, all level headed, and confidently say this would never happen to us, and it won't, because we know about this one and how it works. But as more people tweak to whatever the current scams are, the more the scammers innovate and come up with new ones.
There's a lot of personal information about people on the internet, and it's easy to find. It's also easy to spoof calls so they look like they're coming from whatever number you want. And if you add in the element of surprise and concoct a plausible emergency, you could get suckered too if the conditions are right. Add in all the different, inconsistent, and sometimes confusing ways we conduct business over the internet and purchase goods and services, and some scammer can eventually find just the right combination to ding you eventually.
All the smugness makes it even harder for people who have been scammed to report it. They've heard people talking about "stupid taxes" and saying they deserve it, or characterizing them as feeble minded and gullible and in need of supervision. By admitting they were victimized, they're taking on all of that. So of course, a lot of them just don't tell anyone. And because of that, we don't know nearly enough about the scope and the nature of currently operating scams. The issue doesn't have the urgency it probably should, and we don't know how best to fight it.
posted by ernielundquist at 8:22 AM on September 18, 2014 [12 favorites]
We can all read the article over our coffee, all level headed, and confidently say this would never happen to us, and it won't, because we know about this one and how it works. But as more people tweak to whatever the current scams are, the more the scammers innovate and come up with new ones.
There's a lot of personal information about people on the internet, and it's easy to find. It's also easy to spoof calls so they look like they're coming from whatever number you want. And if you add in the element of surprise and concoct a plausible emergency, you could get suckered too if the conditions are right. Add in all the different, inconsistent, and sometimes confusing ways we conduct business over the internet and purchase goods and services, and some scammer can eventually find just the right combination to ding you eventually.
All the smugness makes it even harder for people who have been scammed to report it. They've heard people talking about "stupid taxes" and saying they deserve it, or characterizing them as feeble minded and gullible and in need of supervision. By admitting they were victimized, they're taking on all of that. So of course, a lot of them just don't tell anyone. And because of that, we don't know nearly enough about the scope and the nature of currently operating scams. The issue doesn't have the urgency it probably should, and we don't know how best to fight it.
posted by ernielundquist at 8:22 AM on September 18, 2014 [12 favorites]
Three of my grandparents fell for this scam. The fourth one recognized my voice while I was playing the lawyer character.
posted by orme at 8:28 AM on September 18, 2014 [33 favorites]
posted by orme at 8:28 AM on September 18, 2014 [33 favorites]
I will never fall for this, you see, because Super King has no need for loved ones!
posted by Monochrome at 8:31 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Monochrome at 8:31 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Where is the NSA's panopticon dystopia when we need it? Seems like they could win some PR by using their powers for good.
It's baffling that these scams are allowed to persist. They go in waves: I get different scam phone calls every day for a few weeks in a row, and then they're silent, and then they come back again. Last I checked, the complaint process asked for no useful information (what number did they call from? It was spoofed. What was the company name? Don't know; they hang up if you ask this) and produced nothing.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 8:49 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
It's baffling that these scams are allowed to persist. They go in waves: I get different scam phone calls every day for a few weeks in a row, and then they're silent, and then they come back again. Last I checked, the complaint process asked for no useful information (what number did they call from? It was spoofed. What was the company name? Don't know; they hang up if you ask this) and produced nothing.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 8:49 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
I mean, sure, there are some pretty transparent scams out there, but there are also a LOT of scams out there, and they don't all seem absurd on their face.
Idk, I never answer my phone if I don't know the number, either at home or at work, and I never answer any emails or click on any email links from unknown senders. It's also super obvious when someone's had their email account fiddled with because the text of the message is so alien. I guess when scammers finally learn how to use the highly localized tumblr-birb-doge shorthand we all use then I might be in for some trouble, but by then our vernacular will have changed accordingly.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:56 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Idk, I never answer my phone if I don't know the number, either at home or at work, and I never answer any emails or click on any email links from unknown senders. It's also super obvious when someone's had their email account fiddled with because the text of the message is so alien. I guess when scammers finally learn how to use the highly localized tumblr-birb-doge shorthand we all use then I might be in for some trouble, but by then our vernacular will have changed accordingly.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:56 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Also I amuse myself greatly on the rare occasions that toner scam people call up, by pretending to really want to buy lots of overpriced printer cartridges, but I'm too dumb to figure out how to transfer the call to our accountant who will give the credit card number immediately, can they call me back at this other number? This other number is either the FBI field office downtown, or the local precinct, or a number carefully selected from one of the more egregious email spams I've received that day.
posted by poffin boffin at 8:56 AM on September 18, 2014 [15 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:56 AM on September 18, 2014 [15 favorites]
They go in waves: I get different scam phone calls every day for a few weeks in a row, and then they're silent
Yeah, for a while there I was getting almost daily voice mails (because I never answer) on my cell phone with recordings telling me that I could claim a [$xx] credit on my AT&T bill. The amount varied, from $99 all the way up to $400. The message directed me to go to shady-sounding URLS like "att99credit.com" (or whatever). I never went to the URLs, obviously, and blocked each number as it came in but each call was from a different number anyway. Then they just stopped.
posted by misskaz at 8:58 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Yeah, for a while there I was getting almost daily voice mails (because I never answer) on my cell phone with recordings telling me that I could claim a [$xx] credit on my AT&T bill. The amount varied, from $99 all the way up to $400. The message directed me to go to shady-sounding URLS like "att99credit.com" (or whatever). I never went to the URLs, obviously, and blocked each number as it came in but each call was from a different number anyway. Then they just stopped.
posted by misskaz at 8:58 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
It's baffling that these scams are allowed to persist.
They're really all but impossible to police, given the nature of modern telephony and the distributed nature of things.
Before you youngsters get all "I could never fall for shit like this", just remember that you, too, will get old, and be subject to the attendant decline in faculties. Things change as you age. And, while you get older, the scammers will tend to be younger and more savvy.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:59 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
They're really all but impossible to police, given the nature of modern telephony and the distributed nature of things.
Before you youngsters get all "I could never fall for shit like this", just remember that you, too, will get old, and be subject to the attendant decline in faculties. Things change as you age. And, while you get older, the scammers will tend to be younger and more savvy.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:59 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
I tend to think of these as "personal theater." A good performance is worth a little cash.
I have some acting experience and a cash shortfall. Send me your phone number and I think we can make a mutually beneficial arrangement.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:08 AM on September 18, 2014 [22 favorites]
I have some acting experience and a cash shortfall. Send me your phone number and I think we can make a mutually beneficial arrangement.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:08 AM on September 18, 2014 [22 favorites]
It makes me wonder what kind of scam I'll be vulnerable to when I'm old but that will be obvious to anyone younger.
*vocoder voice*
"Dip Flash, it's me, your grandson. I've been uploaded to the singularity, but I can't access any of my bitcoin yet, and I'm stuck in a virtual lobby. I need you to transfer some funds from your e-wallet so that I can enable full access to the consensual hallucination of Cyberspace, the graphic representation of data abstracted from banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data..."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [38 favorites]
*vocoder voice*
"Dip Flash, it's me, your grandson. I've been uploaded to the singularity, but I can't access any of my bitcoin yet, and I'm stuck in a virtual lobby. I need you to transfer some funds from your e-wallet so that I can enable full access to the consensual hallucination of Cyberspace, the graphic representation of data abstracted from banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data..."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [38 favorites]
Thorzdad: They're really all but impossible to police, given the nature of modern telephony and the distributed nature of things.
I don't know, I think that's a cop-out. For this to work, money has to change hands digitally, and it should be possible to track that. I think half of the reason this works is that money-wiring agencies are shady and corrupt and work to enable it, and the other half is countries in which the law enforcement is complicit and won't press charges.
#1 could be fixed by making Western Union and the like actually keep some records (do they do anything anymore but enable scams?) and when a country won't play ball with taking care of scammers, it's time for "Oops! Looks like we trawled your undersea cable again!"
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:35 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
I don't know, I think that's a cop-out. For this to work, money has to change hands digitally, and it should be possible to track that. I think half of the reason this works is that money-wiring agencies are shady and corrupt and work to enable it, and the other half is countries in which the law enforcement is complicit and won't press charges.
#1 could be fixed by making Western Union and the like actually keep some records (do they do anything anymore but enable scams?) and when a country won't play ball with taking care of scammers, it's time for "Oops! Looks like we trawled your undersea cable again!"
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:35 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
I had a character whose narrative I developed over the course of many spam phonecalls: an elderly Welshman with a pet owl named Trevor. I'd interrupt the spiel to attend to my fictional owl and try to steer the conversation to be about how fascinating and wonderful owls were.
"Bear with me if you would, my owl is insisting on his tea. Trevor, you've got another hour. Sorry, he's rather greedy. All owls are, I suppose. Quite single-minded at times, but they make lovely pets, they do! Have you stroked an owl? They're softer than you reckon. Rather like a Persian cat!"
My goal was to keep going until the annoyance hung up, but I always got bored before they did. Now I don't bother because whenever I prep myself before answering, it's always seems to be a recording. So I just don't answer if I don't recognize.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:40 AM on September 18, 2014 [22 favorites]
"Bear with me if you would, my owl is insisting on his tea. Trevor, you've got another hour. Sorry, he's rather greedy. All owls are, I suppose. Quite single-minded at times, but they make lovely pets, they do! Have you stroked an owl? They're softer than you reckon. Rather like a Persian cat!"
My goal was to keep going until the annoyance hung up, but I always got bored before they did. Now I don't bother because whenever I prep myself before answering, it's always seems to be a recording. So I just don't answer if I don't recognize.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:40 AM on September 18, 2014 [22 favorites]
My dad plays confused and asks them to repeat themselves until they hang up.
Or he suggests outlandish solutions like sending cash via UPS but,"with brownies because who doesn't like brownies - unless you have a nut allergy, should I send cookies instead? Peanut Butter or Snickerdoodles? Do you know why they call them Snickerdoodles? I sure don't, but boy that's an interesting name for a cookie. If you don't have a nut allergy, I could put Chocolate Chip cookies in there with the money. MawMaw always makes them with pecans. Oh no - don't worry about grease. See, what I'll do is put the money in an envelope and then out that envelope in a Ziploc bag. Those Ziploc bags are really handy...."
So someone is fighting the good fight.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:57 AM on September 18, 2014 [21 favorites]
Or he suggests outlandish solutions like sending cash via UPS but,"with brownies because who doesn't like brownies - unless you have a nut allergy, should I send cookies instead? Peanut Butter or Snickerdoodles? Do you know why they call them Snickerdoodles? I sure don't, but boy that's an interesting name for a cookie. If you don't have a nut allergy, I could put Chocolate Chip cookies in there with the money. MawMaw always makes them with pecans. Oh no - don't worry about grease. See, what I'll do is put the money in an envelope and then out that envelope in a Ziploc bag. Those Ziploc bags are really handy...."
So someone is fighting the good fight.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:57 AM on September 18, 2014 [21 favorites]
My Grandma got one of these scammers pretending to be me. Unfortunately, he called a day after we had spoken on the phone, so there was little chance I had opted for a Mexican jail when we had previously discussed how I was taking my infant son to the zoo.
So she started asking questions and called the cops on her cell so they could trace the call and do whatever else the police do in the movies. Oh, Grandma, savvy enough to see through international scammers, naive enough to think the local cops would be able to do anything about it.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:06 AM on September 18, 2014 [11 favorites]
So she started asking questions and called the cops on her cell so they could trace the call and do whatever else the police do in the movies. Oh, Grandma, savvy enough to see through international scammers, naive enough to think the local cops would be able to do anything about it.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:06 AM on September 18, 2014 [11 favorites]
I got one of the IRS scam calls, and it's amazing how effective they are at producing that "OH NO!" adrenaline rush.
Part of me was in full adrenaline mode and freaking out that the IRS was going to issue a warrant for my arrest on tax fraud charges at midnight if I didn't call this number, even though the rest of me was thinking "Uh, I haven't committed tax fraud, and even if I had, the IRS usually tries to work out tax issues outside the court system these days, and even if they didn't they don't usually notify you beforehand that they're going to issue a warrant for your arrest, and even if they did warn you, they're unlikely to do so with a robocall in poorly constructed English."
So I get how people can fall for these!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:12 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Part of me was in full adrenaline mode and freaking out that the IRS was going to issue a warrant for my arrest on tax fraud charges at midnight if I didn't call this number, even though the rest of me was thinking "Uh, I haven't committed tax fraud, and even if I had, the IRS usually tries to work out tax issues outside the court system these days, and even if they didn't they don't usually notify you beforehand that they're going to issue a warrant for your arrest, and even if they did warn you, they're unlikely to do so with a robocall in poorly constructed English."
So I get how people can fall for these!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 10:12 AM on September 18, 2014 [5 favorites]
Here's a scary story to tell in the dark, by the way.
Overview: There are sketchy CLECs out there that operate as middlemen for phone scams. They collect tariffs from your phone company every time they deliver Caller ID data to your phone. So all those calls from unknown numbers that you don't answer are still making a profit for the con artists. Money they might get from the scams themselves are gravy. They're getting your money just by making your phone ring.
Hell, they might even prefer you don't answer because unanswered calls require fewer resources.
posted by ernielundquist at 10:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Overview: There are sketchy CLECs out there that operate as middlemen for phone scams. They collect tariffs from your phone company every time they deliver Caller ID data to your phone. So all those calls from unknown numbers that you don't answer are still making a profit for the con artists. Money they might get from the scams themselves are gravy. They're getting your money just by making your phone ring.
Hell, they might even prefer you don't answer because unanswered calls require fewer resources.
posted by ernielundquist at 10:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
There was just an AskMe about an IRS phone call scam the other day.
posted by misskaz at 10:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by misskaz at 10:15 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Re: That dumbass crack about "personal theater." The IRS scam happened to my mother-in-law a couple of weeks ago. I spent an hour talking her off the ledge. She was not entertained.
Aside from fraud, seems to me police should be investigating these incidents as criminal threats/extortion.
And this:
Where is the NSA's panopticon dystopia when we need it? Seems like they could win some PR by using their powers for good.
Exactly!
posted by sixpack at 10:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
Aside from fraud, seems to me police should be investigating these incidents as criminal threats/extortion.
And this:
Where is the NSA's panopticon dystopia when we need it? Seems like they could win some PR by using their powers for good.
Exactly!
posted by sixpack at 10:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
"it seems like the whole world is involved in nothing else, and I mean nothing else but trying to see who can grab the most money from the most people in the most awful ways possible these days."
Unless it's raping and abusing those you can get power over. That's a common pass-time, too, xingcat.
posted by greermahoney at 10:53 AM on September 18, 2014
Unless it's raping and abusing those you can get power over. That's a common pass-time, too, xingcat.
posted by greermahoney at 10:53 AM on September 18, 2014
My parents have gotten the IRS scam phone call. Thankfully, they didn't fall for it: my dad had just recently been in contact with the IRS about an amended return, so when he asked for more details about that and they couldn't give any, he knew something was up.
Also thankfully, they totally wouldn't fall for the kid or family member in trouble scam because they'd know it wasn't legit as soon as the person on the other end spoke English instead of our native language. Using "Mom" or "Dad" as the form of address would also immediately give them away as a scammer. I wonder how many of these kinds of cons flounder on that kind of detail. Or do they just avoid obviously "foreign" sounding names figuring it's not worth the risk/effort?
posted by yasaman at 10:53 AM on September 18, 2014
Also thankfully, they totally wouldn't fall for the kid or family member in trouble scam because they'd know it wasn't legit as soon as the person on the other end spoke English instead of our native language. Using "Mom" or "Dad" as the form of address would also immediately give them away as a scammer. I wonder how many of these kinds of cons flounder on that kind of detail. Or do they just avoid obviously "foreign" sounding names figuring it's not worth the risk/effort?
posted by yasaman at 10:53 AM on September 18, 2014
We're going to find out at least some of the scamming is going to funding terrorism.
The variants of the Nigerian Scam are still out there.
So are variants of the Sweetheart Scam.
I had the same friend fall for the Nigerian Scam and get taken for thousands of dollars.
Then she was hit through a dating site with the Sweetheart Scam.
I told her she was being scammed then got 'What have you got against making money?'
So I told her, ' I have nothing against legitimately making money. I have a lot against liars trying to take my money!'
She could not afford the loss.
The Sweetheart Scam was worse.
The guy posed as a White person stuck in a Nigerian hospital until he could pay his hospital bills.
He named a hospital which existed.
I actually got a calling card, and my friend in the same room. I called the real hospital. No such patient existed.
The doctor existed.
Not available to speak with.
She refused to be convinced. She wasn't elderly. She just didn't have the mental wherewithal to check it out. She was hungry for love,( in the swept off her feet sense) and frankly the drama hooked her.
In fact drama is an overlooked hook. People respond to it.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 10:57 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
The variants of the Nigerian Scam are still out there.
So are variants of the Sweetheart Scam.
I had the same friend fall for the Nigerian Scam and get taken for thousands of dollars.
Then she was hit through a dating site with the Sweetheart Scam.
I told her she was being scammed then got 'What have you got against making money?'
So I told her, ' I have nothing against legitimately making money. I have a lot against liars trying to take my money!'
She could not afford the loss.
The Sweetheart Scam was worse.
The guy posed as a White person stuck in a Nigerian hospital until he could pay his hospital bills.
He named a hospital which existed.
I actually got a calling card, and my friend in the same room. I called the real hospital. No such patient existed.
The doctor existed.
Not available to speak with.
She refused to be convinced. She wasn't elderly. She just didn't have the mental wherewithal to check it out. She was hungry for love,( in the swept off her feet sense) and frankly the drama hooked her.
In fact drama is an overlooked hook. People respond to it.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 10:57 AM on September 18, 2014 [7 favorites]
In fact drama is an overlooked hook. People respond to it.
True. There's also the "too ludicrous to not be real" aspect to a lot of these. They are so transparently bogus that a lot of people probably can't imagine that it isn't real.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on September 18, 2014
True. There's also the "too ludicrous to not be real" aspect to a lot of these. They are so transparently bogus that a lot of people probably can't imagine that it isn't real.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on September 18, 2014
Don't think that this type of thing only works on old people. There is a variant of this in Argentina known as "Virtual Kidnapping". You're asleep and at 4:30 on a Saturday morning your phone rings and on the end of the line you hear the sobbing voice of your sister telling you that "They have me, please do what they want". A male voice then comes on telling you to turn off all mobiles and to stay on the line if you want to see your sister again.
They know in which neighbourhood you live and they shout at you over and over asking you how much cash you have in the house. All the time you can hear your sister's sobs in the background. After establishing how much you have in the house your sister comes back on pleading with you to make sure you give them everything. You're told that one of you has to leave the money nearby and the other is to stay in the house on the phone.
One of you leaves the money and staying on the phone you will eventually hear your sister being released in Buenos Aires. They hang up and you phone your sister only to find she has just gone to bed after a nice night out in her hometown 500 miles from Buenos Aires.
This happened to a couple I know, both in their 30s, both smart and plugged in people. A combination of the time, the panicked voices, some vague yet convincing details and the real possibility of kidnapping in Argentina combine to make this a powerful and effective scenario from the robber's perspective.
Add to the fact that due to the economic instability in Argentina many people do keep large sums of cash in the house, this crime works.
posted by jontyjago at 11:08 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
They know in which neighbourhood you live and they shout at you over and over asking you how much cash you have in the house. All the time you can hear your sister's sobs in the background. After establishing how much you have in the house your sister comes back on pleading with you to make sure you give them everything. You're told that one of you has to leave the money nearby and the other is to stay in the house on the phone.
One of you leaves the money and staying on the phone you will eventually hear your sister being released in Buenos Aires. They hang up and you phone your sister only to find she has just gone to bed after a nice night out in her hometown 500 miles from Buenos Aires.
This happened to a couple I know, both in their 30s, both smart and plugged in people. A combination of the time, the panicked voices, some vague yet convincing details and the real possibility of kidnapping in Argentina combine to make this a powerful and effective scenario from the robber's perspective.
Add to the fact that due to the economic instability in Argentina many people do keep large sums of cash in the house, this crime works.
posted by jontyjago at 11:08 AM on September 18, 2014 [4 favorites]
While we're at it, let's talk about the yo-yos with South Asian accents who are always calling me "from Microsoft" at dinnertime to talk about "my Windows computer."
I always ask, which computer? And which version of Windows? And get the same nonsense script until I get bored and hang up. But I'm sure there are non-savvy people handing over whatever keys to the kingdom these jerks ask for.
posted by Gelatin at 11:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
I always ask, which computer? And which version of Windows? And get the same nonsense script until I get bored and hang up. But I'm sure there are non-savvy people handing over whatever keys to the kingdom these jerks ask for.
posted by Gelatin at 11:19 AM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
I asked an AskMe question about a similar scam just a while ago too. For some reason I'm obsessed with how these scams work, so I enjoyed that article. Although it didn't really answer my spoofing question. They must use some program to send out the robocalls that keeps track of how close the fake process server is supposed to be and spoofs the local # on the last call.
posted by interplanetjanet at 11:25 AM on September 18, 2014
posted by interplanetjanet at 11:25 AM on September 18, 2014
My father knows a nice old lady who worked as a volunteer receptionist at a local church. He did IT support for their very small network and found out, through a passing conversation, that she was going to be donating a large sum of money to the church once her 'African friend' sent through the money he had promised.
By the time he got the RCMP involved she had already mortgaged her home and lost something in the range of $70,000.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 11:35 AM on September 18, 2014
By the time he got the RCMP involved she had already mortgaged her home and lost something in the range of $70,000.
posted by WinnipegDragon at 11:35 AM on September 18, 2014
My father (in his 90's) almost fell for one of these scams not so long ago. They claimed my cousin was in jail in Mexico. Fortunately my sister showed up to check on him and put a halt to the process right before he was headed off to wire the money (and I mean right before, he was just getting ready to wire the money and being pig headed about her doubts, when she verified my cousin was at home in Caifornia.) It was not an insignificant amount of money to lose for someone on a fixed income and with health problems. These scammers are scum.
posted by gudrun at 11:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by gudrun at 11:41 AM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
I have spent quite a bit of time talking to various Indian scammers, either trying to get them to admit that what they're doing is fraudulent or immoral, or failing that trying to keep them on the phone long enough that they hang up. Mostly they just hang up when they figure out I'm messing with them. The guy last night with the "your computer is spreading viruses" version was pretty patient until I started explaining why he couldn't possibly be in Toronto, and why "Max Prescott" was a pretty unlikely name for an Indian. I was sorry he hung up though, because I was about to start my rant about what a smart guy he was and if he really wanted to make some money he should actually move to Bangalore or Canada and get a real IT job.
So far my favourites are the guy who absolutely wouldn't deviate from his script for any amount of arguing, even after I swore at him, and the guy who realized 30 minutes too late that I wasn't going to take him seriously and started screaming about how I was wasting his time. I admit I do this with full awareness that these people are as much victims of this nonsense as I am, and are just scrabbling for a few pennies by annoying (to them) wealthy North Americans. There's no satisfaction to be had in any of these exchanges.
Any suggestions for further investigation? If possible, I'd like to just have a nice chat about kids and what it's like in your hometown, but I suppose that's a losing proposition when you work in a sweatshop and there's someone standing over you with a stick.
posted by sneebler at 12:17 PM on September 18, 2014
So far my favourites are the guy who absolutely wouldn't deviate from his script for any amount of arguing, even after I swore at him, and the guy who realized 30 minutes too late that I wasn't going to take him seriously and started screaming about how I was wasting his time. I admit I do this with full awareness that these people are as much victims of this nonsense as I am, and are just scrabbling for a few pennies by annoying (to them) wealthy North Americans. There's no satisfaction to be had in any of these exchanges.
Any suggestions for further investigation? If possible, I'd like to just have a nice chat about kids and what it's like in your hometown, but I suppose that's a losing proposition when you work in a sweatshop and there's someone standing over you with a stick.
posted by sneebler at 12:17 PM on September 18, 2014
Thanks to my step-sisters kids being rotten no-good parasites, My Father had to go through this with his actual grandkids. They had a couple of good years of playing on grandpa's sympathies for cash until he wised up. Anyone attempting this scam at this point is in for a good talking to. He's always been a bit of a miser unless he thought he could help someone. They pretty much turned him into full-time scrooge. It kind of sucks for the younger grandkids who might find themselves needing him someday, because he's pretty jaded about the whole thing.
posted by billyfleetwood at 12:35 PM on September 18, 2014
posted by billyfleetwood at 12:35 PM on September 18, 2014
won't ever happen to me, because i don't take phone calls. my favored correspondents know to email me instead. my phone line is plugged into my computer now, and i leave it plugged in when i turn off my computer. the phone service i pay for exists for me to call out on, not for random strangers to disturb me in my crib. there is one moment of vulnerability, before and after i make an outgoing call and before i reattach the line to my box...
in the last 15 years, one woman, a friend in california, has "exploited" this moment twice, when my phone rang during the moment and i answered it out of curiosity. i shudder to think of how many thousands of times she tried this to make it happen, and i think she's gotten the message now, because i always answer her emails.
posted by bruce at 12:41 PM on September 18, 2014
in the last 15 years, one woman, a friend in california, has "exploited" this moment twice, when my phone rang during the moment and i answered it out of curiosity. i shudder to think of how many thousands of times she tried this to make it happen, and i think she's gotten the message now, because i always answer her emails.
posted by bruce at 12:41 PM on September 18, 2014
There are too many layers of people making money off these things for any sort of real change to happen, from phone companies charging you for the calls you receive and demanding payment for any sort of preventative solution (e.g., getting rid of the antifeature of having your number listed or paying for add-on services to block calls) to sleazy dataminers compiling lists of vulnerable populations to phonebank operators about half a step removed from the scam itself.
Many of these operations are working well outside the law already, but regulatory agencies are too underfunded to keep up, and those who do have the resources to address the problems don't have the motivation.
And I'll just add here that I've had enough legitimate emergency calls, many coming from unrecognized numbers, that I couldn't really be that blase about not answering my phone even if it were super important to me to avoid scammers.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:01 PM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
Many of these operations are working well outside the law already, but regulatory agencies are too underfunded to keep up, and those who do have the resources to address the problems don't have the motivation.
And I'll just add here that I've had enough legitimate emergency calls, many coming from unrecognized numbers, that I couldn't really be that blase about not answering my phone even if it were super important to me to avoid scammers.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:01 PM on September 18, 2014 [3 favorites]
You're asleep and at 4:30 on a Saturday morning your phone rings and on the end of the line you hear the sobbing voice of your sister telling you that "They have me, please do what they want".
Oh how sad they would be if they tried that stunt on me and I laughed merrily and hung up.
posted by winna at 1:44 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Oh how sad they would be if they tried that stunt on me and I laughed merrily and hung up.
posted by winna at 1:44 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
You're asleep and at 4:30 on a Saturday morning your phone rings and on the end of the line you hear the sobbing voice of your sister telling you that "They have me, please do what they want".
In my case, I would wonder when my sole living sibling got a sex change. And then I would be amazed that he knows my phone number. Who calls landlines any more?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:29 PM on September 18, 2014
In my case, I would wonder when my sole living sibling got a sex change. And then I would be amazed that he knows my phone number. Who calls landlines any more?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:29 PM on September 18, 2014
This happened to my grandma. Luckily (?) she doesn't hear well enough to follow exactly what was happening, and eventually the scammer hung up because he got tired of repeating himself. She of course then called my mom in a total panic, and everything was very confusing for about 45 minutes. And those 45ish minutes where it seemed like maybe my brother was in jail? or maybe someone was targeting my grandma? It was really scary! It scared the shit out of her. It scared the shit out of my whole family. It was so baffling and strange and upsetting — and we didn't even get scammed, it was just one crappy phonecall. Ugh, fuck these people. I'm getting twitchy just remembering that day.
posted by Charity Garfein at 3:47 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by Charity Garfein at 3:47 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
There was just an AskMe about an IRS phone call scam the other day.
LOL I intercepted one of those calls when I was housesitting last month. It immediately sounded fishy, so I googled the callback number, yep it's a scam. The next day the local newspaper website announced that the scam was going around locally, not just in the name of the IRS, but also posing as local police, and demanded money be wired by Western Union under threat of arrest.
I would never fall for one of these scams, but I worry that my Dad will get phished or pwned and he'll lose his entire stock trading portfolio. My sister said she had a talk with him about security, but hell, he has trouble with basic operations. He's their ideal target. I wouldn't expect him to be able to detect a scam instantly, some of them are pretty good fakes.
posted by charlie don't surf at 4:04 PM on September 18, 2014
LOL I intercepted one of those calls when I was housesitting last month. It immediately sounded fishy, so I googled the callback number, yep it's a scam. The next day the local newspaper website announced that the scam was going around locally, not just in the name of the IRS, but also posing as local police, and demanded money be wired by Western Union under threat of arrest.
I would never fall for one of these scams, but I worry that my Dad will get phished or pwned and he'll lose his entire stock trading portfolio. My sister said she had a talk with him about security, but hell, he has trouble with basic operations. He's their ideal target. I wouldn't expect him to be able to detect a scam instantly, some of them are pretty good fakes.
posted by charlie don't surf at 4:04 PM on September 18, 2014
This is why you should never trust smokers, particularly when they have a vine of tattoos trailing up one leg. Oh, and people that wear boxer shorts - major bullshit artists.
posted by a non e mouse at 5:23 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
posted by a non e mouse at 5:23 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Japan has a lot of trouble with these.
Yes Japan does! Since I've lived here, for the past ten years or so, the cat is out of the bag and there have been any number of print articles, TV news pieces, even long form documentaries, all warning old folks of this scam. But people still fall for it. This kind of scam is perfect (if that's the word) for Japan because of a strong aversion to any kind of public humiliation, and being arrested by the police brings a whole boatload of shame on the family. So paying huge amounts of money--that old people keep in their houses--is a welcome relief, you avoid all that public scrutiny.
posted by zardoz at 5:48 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Yes Japan does! Since I've lived here, for the past ten years or so, the cat is out of the bag and there have been any number of print articles, TV news pieces, even long form documentaries, all warning old folks of this scam. But people still fall for it. This kind of scam is perfect (if that's the word) for Japan because of a strong aversion to any kind of public humiliation, and being arrested by the police brings a whole boatload of shame on the family. So paying huge amounts of money--that old people keep in their houses--is a welcome relief, you avoid all that public scrutiny.
posted by zardoz at 5:48 PM on September 18, 2014 [1 favorite]
Western Union ... (do they do anything anymore but enable scams?)
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:35 AM on September 18
You can also use them to send money to unstable countries. I have an author in Ukraine I pay book royalties to via Western Union because their banking system is apparently corrupt.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:33 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by Mitrovarr at 11:35 AM on September 18
You can also use them to send money to unstable countries. I have an author in Ukraine I pay book royalties to via Western Union because their banking system is apparently corrupt.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:33 PM on September 18, 2014 [2 favorites]
They do the grandparent scam in Chile. They tried it on an uncle of mine, saying I was the one in jail etc. He's the most paranoid person I know, so he didn't fall for a second of it. They tried it on my mother in law, saying it was her son. Thankfully, she called him before handing over any cash.
posted by signal at 7:35 PM on September 18, 2014
posted by signal at 7:35 PM on September 18, 2014
This scammer with a thick accent claiming to be the FBI kept calling my house. Finally, I started lecturing him at length on how he's a horrible human being for trying to exploit people and that he should try to find a legitimate job. His reaction? It went like this:
"But...can you help me find a job?"
"Sorry man, I can't even find myself a job. Why don't you ask your friends for help?"
"I don't have any friends...will you be my friend?"
"No, sorry."
"Please! I have no friends. I'm very lonely. All that you've said to me is so wise! I want to learn from you! Can I add you on Facebook? Please???"
He kept calling back trying to convince me to add him on Facebook. What a world we live in.
posted by adso at 9:25 PM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
"But...can you help me find a job?"
"Sorry man, I can't even find myself a job. Why don't you ask your friends for help?"
"I don't have any friends...will you be my friend?"
"No, sorry."
"Please! I have no friends. I'm very lonely. All that you've said to me is so wise! I want to learn from you! Can I add you on Facebook? Please???"
He kept calling back trying to convince me to add him on Facebook. What a world we live in.
posted by adso at 9:25 PM on September 18, 2014 [6 favorites]
My grandma got a "stranded-in-London" call from someone pretending to be my younger cousin. At that point, my cousin was involved with a British guy, so it was quite plausible that she could have been in London at that time. Needless to say, my grandma was very freaked out. Luckily, before she sent any money, she called my aunt, who assured her that my cousin was still at school in Alabama and not in London. Thank goodness she thought to do that!
posted by SisterHavana at 10:39 PM on September 18, 2014
posted by SisterHavana at 10:39 PM on September 18, 2014
"There are too many layers of people making money off these things for any sort of real change to happen, from phone companies charging you for the calls you receive and demanding payment for any sort of preventative solution"
"#1 could be fixed by making Western Union and the like actually keep some records (do they do anything anymore but enable scams?) and when a country won't play ball with taking care of scammers, it's time for "Oops! Looks like we trawled your undersea cable again!""
I know MetaFilter enjoys the whole "whatever is bad in the world is all The Man's fault!" thing, but Japan has tremendous problems with this, and 1) records are kept of bank transfers (which is largely how the scam is done here), and 2) phone companies don't charge for receiving calls, just for making them. Banks spend a tremendous amount of time and effort trying to curb these scams, limiting how much you can withdraw at ATMs in order to reduce the impact of scams, putting up signage everywhere warning people about scams, training tellers to investigate when elderly or apparently distraught people withdraw large amounts of cash. The police spend a lot of resources trying to crack down, as well.
Could changes be made in the US to help reduce this kind of crime? Sure, I guess. But would that produce "real change" or "fix" the issue? Precedent seems to indicate "probably not".
posted by Bugbread at 1:18 AM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
"#1 could be fixed by making Western Union and the like actually keep some records (do they do anything anymore but enable scams?) and when a country won't play ball with taking care of scammers, it's time for "Oops! Looks like we trawled your undersea cable again!""
I know MetaFilter enjoys the whole "whatever is bad in the world is all The Man's fault!" thing, but Japan has tremendous problems with this, and 1) records are kept of bank transfers (which is largely how the scam is done here), and 2) phone companies don't charge for receiving calls, just for making them. Banks spend a tremendous amount of time and effort trying to curb these scams, limiting how much you can withdraw at ATMs in order to reduce the impact of scams, putting up signage everywhere warning people about scams, training tellers to investigate when elderly or apparently distraught people withdraw large amounts of cash. The police spend a lot of resources trying to crack down, as well.
Could changes be made in the US to help reduce this kind of crime? Sure, I guess. But would that produce "real change" or "fix" the issue? Precedent seems to indicate "probably not".
posted by Bugbread at 1:18 AM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
These scams have also made it more difficult to get money from parents when you actually are trapped in a foreign country and broke. The last time I had to do this I had to include:
can i wire money to myself. sorry about the awful typing, i am using an algerian keyboard. i am not a scammer. to prove it our cats name is peppermint and she is morbidly obese.
posted by chaiminda at 4:40 AM on September 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
can i wire money to myself. sorry about the awful typing, i am using an algerian keyboard. i am not a scammer. to prove it our cats name is peppermint and she is morbidly obese.
posted by chaiminda at 4:40 AM on September 19, 2014 [4 favorites]
I think you will know you've reached old age when you start getting these in your mail. Sort of like getting your first AARP membership mailing.
shut up SHUT UP
posted by malocchio at 8:02 AM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
shut up SHUT UP
posted by malocchio at 8:02 AM on September 19, 2014 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, I'm looking forward to having a pet owl.
posted by malocchio at 8:03 AM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
posted by malocchio at 8:03 AM on September 19, 2014 [2 favorites]
Sort of like getting your first AARP membership mailing.
I got my first AARP membership mailing when I was 28.
Should I be worried?
posted by yohko at 2:38 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
I got my first AARP membership mailing when I was 28.
Should I be worried?
posted by yohko at 2:38 PM on September 21, 2014 [1 favorite]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
It's easy to get swept up in the emotion of the moment. My in-laws are not naive or unworldly, but when their baby boy was in trouble they let their emotions get the better of them. They ended up losing several thousand dollars, but it's a better ending than it could have been: they were on their way to cash out an RSP to get more money (the story had escalated dramatically) when my wife basically forced them to go to the local police station to explain the situation.
The local cops recognized it right away and told them to call their son, something that seems obvious in retrospect but honestly hadn't occurred to anyone - why call him when he was in jail? But, nope, he picked up the phone and wanted to know why he was getting a call when he was in class.
posted by flipper at 5:31 AM on September 18, 2014 [22 favorites]