"Can I look at it?" "No, no - you've seen enough of that one..."
March 28, 2015 11:10 AM Subscribe
Les Paul's 1954 Custom: The One & Only Original by Michael Molenda, Guitar Player. More on Les Paul, and his partnership with Mary Ford, at Gibson.com. YouTube: How High The Moon (1951).
Previously: How High The Moon
Previously: How High The Moon
Did you ever notice that the theme song of "Malcolm In The Middle" quotes the melody of "How High The Moon" (at the "life is unfair" coda)?
posted by thelonius at 11:25 AM on March 28, 2015
posted by thelonius at 11:25 AM on March 28, 2015
Simply the purest rock guitar of all time. My fingers are vibrating.
posted by colie at 11:56 AM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by colie at 11:56 AM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
When Gibson started doing thinner necks, he asked me what I thought, and I said, “You lose a lot of timber...."
OH COME ON
posted by rhizome at 12:26 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
OH COME ON
posted by rhizome at 12:26 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
“You lose a lot of timber...."
I have read that through a dozen times and I still can't tell whether he's talking about timbre, or about the neck having less wood. Either one would work, in the context. Seems odd that he would refer to wood as timber, though.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:31 PM on March 28, 2015
I have read that through a dozen times and I still can't tell whether he's talking about timbre, or about the neck having less wood. Either one would work, in the context. Seems odd that he would refer to wood as timber, though.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:31 PM on March 28, 2015
In the context of The Log, "timber" kinda makes sense.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:34 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:34 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
From the first link:
"He loved the feel of that guitar—it was a perfect fit for his hands—and he knew its black finish would look fantastic on the terrible television pictures of the day. Les was very aware that people could easily see his hands moving across the black body and ebony fretboard. He said, “Movement is very important. A guy can play great, but if his hands stay in one spot, it looks like anybody can do it. I have to let people see my hands flying all over the place.” He was a very good salesman. He knew what he had and he knew how to sell it. He’d tell me, “Tom, whatever you do, it has to be hock-able.” Those were his words."
That's really interesting. Thanks for posting this.
Kinda related early-50s Les Paul model-wise, Neil Young's Old Black.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:48 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
"He loved the feel of that guitar—it was a perfect fit for his hands—and he knew its black finish would look fantastic on the terrible television pictures of the day. Les was very aware that people could easily see his hands moving across the black body and ebony fretboard. He said, “Movement is very important. A guy can play great, but if his hands stay in one spot, it looks like anybody can do it. I have to let people see my hands flying all over the place.” He was a very good salesman. He knew what he had and he knew how to sell it. He’d tell me, “Tom, whatever you do, it has to be hock-able.” Those were his words."
That's really interesting. Thanks for posting this.
Kinda related early-50s Les Paul model-wise, Neil Young's Old Black.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:48 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Did you ever notice that the theme song of "Malcolm In The Middle" quotes the melody of "How High The Moon" (at the "life is unfair" coda)?
Or "How Dry I Am" if someone named John is more of a Looney Tunes guy.
posted by lothar at 1:12 PM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Or "How Dry I Am" if someone named John is more of a Looney Tunes guy.
posted by lothar at 1:12 PM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
In the context of The Log, "timber" kinda makes sense.
It makes even more sense to me. I used to have a 1961 Les Paul Jr, it was the first year they made the Junior in the SG body, it was wonderfully thin and light and really easy to play.
A few years ago, I was at a bar when a band was playing. During a break, I asked the guy if that was a 1960 Les Paul Jr. and he said it was, and wondered how the hell did I know that? Well of course I knew that. He said, "hey try it out" and handed it to me, it was very very heavy. I played it a bit (unplugged, mercifully for the audience) and it had the thickest neck of any Gibson I ever played. My 1976 Les Paul Deluxe "Old Norlin" has a neck about halfway between the two.
Anyway, the article mentions that Les Paul wanted the stop piece to be slanted, just like the bridge. In all the decades I played guitar, I never noticed that little detail, that the bridge is slanted. I am sure I saw this but it never registered with me. I checked out my Deluxe, it has the classic Tune-o-matic bridge, but I noticed the individual saddles are adjusted so it almost completely eliminates the angle. I am sure this is the cause of some of my intonation problems (which are not that bad, but noticeable, now that I use a digital tuner). Now I need to get that fixed by a guy who actually knows what he's doing (unlike the guy who last worked on my guitar).
posted by charlie don't surf at 1:30 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
It makes even more sense to me. I used to have a 1961 Les Paul Jr, it was the first year they made the Junior in the SG body, it was wonderfully thin and light and really easy to play.
A few years ago, I was at a bar when a band was playing. During a break, I asked the guy if that was a 1960 Les Paul Jr. and he said it was, and wondered how the hell did I know that? Well of course I knew that. He said, "hey try it out" and handed it to me, it was very very heavy. I played it a bit (unplugged, mercifully for the audience) and it had the thickest neck of any Gibson I ever played. My 1976 Les Paul Deluxe "Old Norlin" has a neck about halfway between the two.
Anyway, the article mentions that Les Paul wanted the stop piece to be slanted, just like the bridge. In all the decades I played guitar, I never noticed that little detail, that the bridge is slanted. I am sure I saw this but it never registered with me. I checked out my Deluxe, it has the classic Tune-o-matic bridge, but I noticed the individual saddles are adjusted so it almost completely eliminates the angle. I am sure this is the cause of some of my intonation problems (which are not that bad, but noticeable, now that I use a digital tuner). Now I need to get that fixed by a guy who actually knows what he's doing (unlike the guy who last worked on my guitar).
posted by charlie don't surf at 1:30 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
A stunning beauty. I see it. But in truth all my life I have found Les Pauls unplayable ...by me. The cheapest knockoff Tele, set up right, is preferable for my style of playing (which among other things never entails a pick). I've always wanted to buy a LP to see if I could change that over time, because I so admire their sustain and I've known players who could make them play expressively as hell. Maybe when I retire.
posted by spitbull at 3:07 PM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by spitbull at 3:07 PM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
spitbull, I am just the opposite. My first electric guitar was a cheap Strat, I remember trading up to a late 60s Tele but I just could not play the damn thing. The neck was too narrow, and I hated the shrill sound. But it all depends on your style, of course. I think a lot of this depends on the design, if I had first played that 60 Les Paul Jr with the monstrously thick neck, I surely would have written off Gibsons as unplayable. Anyway, after thinking about your comments on your playing style, I spent half an hour watching old performances on Fender lap steels and comparing the playing style on electrics like the Strat. I always thought the Tele was built to be a 6 string lap steel, I have even seen old videos of people playing them on their lap. Darn if I can find those videos now.
posted by charlie don't surf at 10:46 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by charlie don't surf at 10:46 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Telecasters are very versatile, at least if you are willing to mod them. (Greene also says that Leo Fender was going for a lap steel sound in the design, btw).
posted by thelonius at 1:46 AM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 1:46 AM on March 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, another aspect of my home style on the tele that I find impossible to get going on a Les Paul is what country players call "steel licks," hammer-ons and bends within arpeggiated chord forms up the neck, and a good player can make a Tele sound an awful lot like it's being played with a slide and pedals, moving fluidly between chord forms and playing vocal-style melodies within them. You need chiming, ringing high harmonics for that to sound right, and a very punchy attack (especially if you play with your fingers as I do, it entails nearly snapping the string on the accented slides, bends, and hammer-ons/offs). Nothing sounds like a Tele for this.
I did know a guy who played a LP (with humbuckers!) in the classic country tele style, and he could get the tone and the slinkiness just fine, so it's do-able. (And there definitely have been country players who use them.)
posted by spitbull at 1:37 PM on April 7, 2015
I did know a guy who played a LP (with humbuckers!) in the classic country tele style, and he could get the tone and the slinkiness just fine, so it's do-able. (And there definitely have been country players who use them.)
posted by spitbull at 1:37 PM on April 7, 2015
a good player can make a Tele sound an awful lot like it's being played with a slide and pedals, moving fluidly between chord forms and playing vocal-style melodies within them. You need chiming, ringing high harmonics for that to sound right, and a very punchy attack
Yeah, I remember Roy Buchanan once said he played steel guitar until he discovered he could do all that stuff on a tele with just his fingers. Oh how that man could play, but I can't listen to his records for long, that shrill Tele sound hurts my ears after a few minutes.
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:54 PM on April 7, 2015
Yeah, I remember Roy Buchanan once said he played steel guitar until he discovered he could do all that stuff on a tele with just his fingers. Oh how that man could play, but I can't listen to his records for long, that shrill Tele sound hurts my ears after a few minutes.
posted by charlie don't surf at 5:54 PM on April 7, 2015
Also, Danny Gatton. He used lots of pedal-steel-esque volume swells and on his tele as well.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:10 AM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:10 AM on April 8, 2015 [1 favorite]
He can really play, and that's the one thing that just baffles me, how people can run up and down the scales so fast and easy. But ouch, right at the beginning, it sounds like his Tele is out of tune. That is the one thing I hate most about Teles and Strats: they won't stay in tune. Most people take the tremelo bar off (touch it once and you're out of tune) and even take out the springs so the bridge is fixed (which is probably an even worse solution since the only thing holding it in position is the tension of the strings, and it's in the wrong position). That Rockpalast concert with Roy Buchanan I linked to, oh man he starts out by tuning and then he tunes up over and over between songs. On the other hand, my Les Paul (fixed bridge) stays in tune forever (once I put better tuners on it) and when I pick it up to play and start out by tuning, I can tell if the ambient temperature was higher or lower the last time I tuned it.
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:33 AM on April 8, 2015
posted by charlie don't surf at 8:33 AM on April 8, 2015
Uh, Teles are almost always fixed bridge guitars, so trem is pretty irrelevant to tuning there. Sometimes the catch is that "classic" or "vintage" Tele bridges use 3 bridge saddles instead of six, so setting the intonation (how well the guitar stays in tune the whole length of the fretboard) can be a little tricky and staying 100% in tune on every note requires some subtleties of touch from the player. At around 11 minutes into that video you can see that Buchanan is definitely using a Tele with a fixed bridge and 3 saddles. Tons of modern Teles have 6 bridge saddles, though, which can provide better intonation.
Then again, since the guitar is essentially inherently constructed as a equal temperament compromise, every guitar requires some subtleties of touch to keep every note 100% in tune. Fret height plus hand pressure can have a huge effect on whether a note is in tune or not.
Most people take the tremelo bar off
I would in no way say that "most" players take the trem arm off, and it's entirely possible to properly set up a Strat trem so it stays in tune. It's not designed to do extreme pitch bends, which is why various people developed locking tremolo systems. Tuning issues on trem or non-trem guitars are most often a problem with the tuning machines slipping or the string binding on the nut and/or the bridge saddles. Les Pauls are not intrinsically immune from these issues, you just got a good one.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:28 AM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
Then again, since the guitar is essentially inherently constructed as a equal temperament compromise, every guitar requires some subtleties of touch to keep every note 100% in tune. Fret height plus hand pressure can have a huge effect on whether a note is in tune or not.
Most people take the tremelo bar off
I would in no way say that "most" players take the trem arm off, and it's entirely possible to properly set up a Strat trem so it stays in tune. It's not designed to do extreme pitch bends, which is why various people developed locking tremolo systems. Tuning issues on trem or non-trem guitars are most often a problem with the tuning machines slipping or the string binding on the nut and/or the bridge saddles. Les Pauls are not intrinsically immune from these issues, you just got a good one.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:28 AM on April 10, 2015 [1 favorite]
it's entirely possible to properly set up a Strat trem so it stays in tune
Most definitely.
Although I'm one of those non-trem Strat players. The setup on my Strat bridge is such that it's a de facto hardtail.
It stays in tune very well.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:20 PM on April 10, 2015
Most definitely.
Although I'm one of those non-trem Strat players. The setup on my Strat bridge is such that it's a de facto hardtail.
It stays in tune very well.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:20 PM on April 10, 2015
Hm.. well apparently I am confusing my old Strat with my old Tele, but then, it has been decades since I had them. I do recall my Tele had the chromed pickup cover (removed when I got it and stayed in the case forever). I do see some aftermarket Strat-style systems with the back side routered out for springs, and some thin surface mount cam systems that look cool.
it's entirely possible to properly set up a Strat trem so it stays in tune.
So how do you do that? My experience was that once you hit the tremelo bar, you are instantly out of tune.
Tuning issues on trem or non-trem guitars are most often a problem with the tuning machines slipping or the string binding on the nut and/or the bridge saddles. Les Pauls are not intrinsically immune from these issues, you just got a good one.
It depends on the tuners. Mine came with Kluson tuners. They are cheaply built and they suck. I replaced them with Schaller tuners. I love Schaller. A few years ago, I emailed them seeking a replacement for an obscure metric nut. The owner of the company wrote back and he personally mailed me an envelope with the parts for free, with a little handwritten note.
Anyway, I don't think my guitar was set up very well, the grooves in the nut and bridge pieces are crudely filed, but at least they don't bind. I want to replace the nut and then reset the intonation with a Plek machine. But Norlin-era Les Paul isn't really worth the expense, and I am getting just deaf enough that I probably couldn't hear the difference. If I play loud for 15 minutes, I can't even hear what note I'm playing.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:33 PM on April 10, 2015
it's entirely possible to properly set up a Strat trem so it stays in tune.
So how do you do that? My experience was that once you hit the tremelo bar, you are instantly out of tune.
Tuning issues on trem or non-trem guitars are most often a problem with the tuning machines slipping or the string binding on the nut and/or the bridge saddles. Les Pauls are not intrinsically immune from these issues, you just got a good one.
It depends on the tuners. Mine came with Kluson tuners. They are cheaply built and they suck. I replaced them with Schaller tuners. I love Schaller. A few years ago, I emailed them seeking a replacement for an obscure metric nut. The owner of the company wrote back and he personally mailed me an envelope with the parts for free, with a little handwritten note.
Anyway, I don't think my guitar was set up very well, the grooves in the nut and bridge pieces are crudely filed, but at least they don't bind. I want to replace the nut and then reset the intonation with a Plek machine. But Norlin-era Les Paul isn't really worth the expense, and I am getting just deaf enough that I probably couldn't hear the difference. If I play loud for 15 minutes, I can't even hear what note I'm playing.
posted by charlie don't surf at 6:33 PM on April 10, 2015
it's entirely possible to properly set up a Strat trem so it stays in tune.
So how do you do that?
I honestly can't say from personal experience - I've never been a Strat guy, so I've never owned one and I've not really mucked around with them besides some wiring/electronics stuff for friends. I've certainly seen and heard plenty of players use the whammy in all sorts of ways and stay in tune.
But from a variety of things I've read in books/online, it's basically about finding the correct balance point between the strings pulling one way and the springs in the back pulling the other way as everything hinges on the screws holding the bridge in place. See here (for example) for a fairly detailed blog post about doing a Strat trem set up. The catch seems to be that string gauge and personal player preference really determine the "best" set-up, so a Strat set so it stays in tune for one player could be all wrong for the next.
reset the intonation with a Plek machine.
Yeah, that Plek machine sounds totally amazing as described, I'd love to see one in action.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:52 PM on April 11, 2015
So how do you do that?
I honestly can't say from personal experience - I've never been a Strat guy, so I've never owned one and I've not really mucked around with them besides some wiring/electronics stuff for friends. I've certainly seen and heard plenty of players use the whammy in all sorts of ways and stay in tune.
But from a variety of things I've read in books/online, it's basically about finding the correct balance point between the strings pulling one way and the springs in the back pulling the other way as everything hinges on the screws holding the bridge in place. See here (for example) for a fairly detailed blog post about doing a Strat trem set up. The catch seems to be that string gauge and personal player preference really determine the "best" set-up, so a Strat set so it stays in tune for one player could be all wrong for the next.
reset the intonation with a Plek machine.
Yeah, that Plek machine sounds totally amazing as described, I'd love to see one in action.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:52 PM on April 11, 2015
And by "finding the correct balance point" I mean I've read about/heard about/ talked to guitar techs and repair guys where they're going through a whole process of changing the number of springs, and the placement of the springs, and bending springs, and finding different springs with different tensions, and on and on and on. So yeah, I could see that any random Strat that hasn't been thoroughly poked at could wind up out of tune if you looked at it cross-eyed.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:58 PM on April 11, 2015
posted by soundguy99 at 7:58 PM on April 11, 2015
Yeah, I fiddled with removing springs, it doesn't really do much except change how much pressure you need to press on the tremolo bar. AFAIK the bridge position doesn't really float or balance at a spot depending on tension of strings on the front vs springs on the back. If you pull the springs out, the bridge drops to one end. With all the springs in, the spring tension takes it hard to the other end of the travel. You know, now that we were talking about strings binding in the groove of the nut or the bridge, I was thinking that could be the problem. There are more sharp turns that could bind in the string path through the body of a Strat, than on other systems.
posted by charlie don't surf at 9:58 PM on April 11, 2015
posted by charlie don't surf at 9:58 PM on April 11, 2015
AFAIK the bridge position doesn't really float or balance at a spot depending on tension of strings on the front vs springs on the back.
Sure it does, look at the link I posted above about setting up a Strat, which includes an image of Leo's patent drawings. The front of the bridge is held down by screws, the back isn't attached to anything. The tension of the strings will pull the bridge "up" towards the nut along the plane of the top, and the springs pull the bridge "down", or towards the nut along the plane of the back. The whole bridge assembly pivots on the line of the screws that attach the front of the bridge to the guitar.
You know, now that we were talking about strings binding in the groove of the nut or the bridge, I was thinking that could be the problem.
Yeah, any time you bend a string, by hand or by whammy bar, you're stretching the string. Some of that stretching is going to happen between the nut & the tuners, and between the bridge saddles and wherever the "rear" end of the string is in the guitar. If the nut and/or bridge saddle slots are rough or not shaped properly, friction will prevent the stretched string from returning 100% to its original length. (Old strings will also lose elasticity and not return to pitch properly, too.) Locking trems got developed in an attempt to reduce or eliminate the chance of the string bending above the nut or behind the bridge saddles.
Hey, I found a couple of Plek videos (I love the Internet)!
Here's an intro video from the Plek company that's got some cool closeups.
Here's a rather more amateur video from a Florida guitar shop that shows one in action - not too many cool shots of the machine, but it gives a good look at the software interface and how to read the data.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:40 AM on April 12, 2015
Sure it does, look at the link I posted above about setting up a Strat, which includes an image of Leo's patent drawings. The front of the bridge is held down by screws, the back isn't attached to anything. The tension of the strings will pull the bridge "up" towards the nut along the plane of the top, and the springs pull the bridge "down", or towards the nut along the plane of the back. The whole bridge assembly pivots on the line of the screws that attach the front of the bridge to the guitar.
You know, now that we were talking about strings binding in the groove of the nut or the bridge, I was thinking that could be the problem.
Yeah, any time you bend a string, by hand or by whammy bar, you're stretching the string. Some of that stretching is going to happen between the nut & the tuners, and between the bridge saddles and wherever the "rear" end of the string is in the guitar. If the nut and/or bridge saddle slots are rough or not shaped properly, friction will prevent the stretched string from returning 100% to its original length. (Old strings will also lose elasticity and not return to pitch properly, too.) Locking trems got developed in an attempt to reduce or eliminate the chance of the string bending above the nut or behind the bridge saddles.
Hey, I found a couple of Plek videos (I love the Internet)!
Here's an intro video from the Plek company that's got some cool closeups.
Here's a rather more amateur video from a Florida guitar shop that shows one in action - not too many cool shots of the machine, but it gives a good look at the software interface and how to read the data.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:40 AM on April 12, 2015
Yeah, I was looking at that patent diagram even before you mentioned it, and I did watch that bridge setup video. Hmm.. I am going to have to visit a music shop and play some Strats.. just so I can remind myself what a silly idea this whole apparatus is.
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:40 PM on April 12, 2015
posted by charlie don't surf at 3:40 PM on April 12, 2015
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