Yup, Frank Miller goes Full Godwin on Superman
April 24, 2015 5:51 PM   Subscribe

Holy fascist retrograde, Batman! DC Comics announces "The Dark Knight Rises: The Master Race". Because the comics universe apparently needs to have karmic balance for the progress of Bobby Drake (Previously on Mefi), which is why DC is making yet another Miller/Azzarello The Dark Knight comic book. Frank Miller, author of The Dark Knight, Sin City, The 300, and Holy Terror! shall once more be working with Brian Azzarello (100 Bullets, Wonder Woman). Various reactions at Polygon and at io9.
posted by LeRoienJaune (84 comments total) 11 users marked this as a favorite
 
It seems like it's just The Dark Knight III: The Master Race, no Rises anywhere?

Anyway, at least Miller isn't drawing it this time. That creepy goblin man can't do a human figure. Or write a human person, but that's beside the point.
posted by kafziel at 5:55 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Mainly I pretend he died sometime around 2001.
posted by Artw at 5:55 PM on April 24, 2015 [13 favorites]


You can't deny "The Spirit" existed ArtW.
(That also leaves you facing the reality of Robocop III).
posted by Mezentian at 5:59 PM on April 24, 2015


Oh boy I can't wait for the excellent pacing, believable dialog, cultural sensitivity and sane worldview that Frank Miller has employed for the past 15 yea-*sobs uncontrollably.*
posted by shmegegge at 6:04 PM on April 24, 2015 [12 favorites]


(That also leaves you facing the reality of Robocop III).

Robocop II is one of those films I rewrite in my head because it could have and should have been better. Honestly I think tighter editing and heavy reuse of the original soundtrack would count for a lot.

Robocop III is unsalvagably bad. Not sure that can really be blamed on Miller though.

But you know what is far better than it needs to be and actually kind of great? The Frank Miller/walter Simonson Robocop Versus Terminator.

He really had it in him back in the day, it really makes me sad to see the weird shadow of himself he is today.
posted by Artw at 6:14 PM on April 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


WHORESWHORESWHORESWHORES
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:24 PM on April 24, 2015 [30 favorites]


You know, I don't want want to provoke anybody here, but I remember showing some pages of DK to someone of approximately the boomer generation and them immediately saying "that's not the Batman I knew." At the time I thought we were so much better than that prior generation, so much more worldly and sophisticated. Honestly we were really just getting off on Batman kicking ass in an unrestrained fashion.

Having said that, I hope it's a long time between now and when my young son discovers such comics. I think times change, but people change more.
posted by newdaddy at 6:30 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


"See, it's going to be like that Krigstein comic, but with cranky Batman and some whores!"
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:31 PM on April 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


And in other WTFDC news, the first official photo of Jared Leto as the Joker in Suicide Squad has just been released...
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:33 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Frank Miller's Batman may be living in the Death Wish universe.
posted by Uppity Pigeon #2 at 6:34 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Did they ever make Robocop vs. Predator?
posted by thelonius at 6:34 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


and when my young son discovers such comics.

Like the one where the Joker cuts his own face off and wears it as a mask? (Or something).
posted by Mezentian at 6:34 PM on April 24, 2015


And in other WTFDC news, the first official photo of Jared Leto as the Joker in Suicide Squad has just been released...

That.... is consistent with the quality I have come to expect from the cinematic DC universe.
posted by Mezentian at 6:35 PM on April 24, 2015 [20 favorites]


Like the one where the Joker cuts his own face off and wears it as a mask? (Or something).

God, a coworker tried to use that storyline as proof that Batman comics were good again. I will never trust his opinion on anything ever again.
posted by shmegegge at 6:36 PM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


WHORESWHORESWHORESWHORES

Reference
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:54 PM on April 24, 2015 [15 favorites]


Artw nailed it. Robocop vs Terminator is a fantastic comic. Miller's mid-90's run at Dark Horse was the last time he'd do anything worth reading (RvT, Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot, some Martha Washington stuff before it went off the rails). But it was also when he was cranking out Sin City and going full out with the themes he started on with Daredevil and Batman in the 80's: prostitutes and tough guys enacting teen-aged vigilante fantasies in the mean streets.
posted by thecjm at 6:54 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


That Joker-cuts-off-his-face thing made my daughter not want to come to the comic shop with me for months.

I've been reading from David Brothers that maybe the Dark Knight Strikes Again isn't as bad as everyone thought. I've never read it but I'll probably read it this weekend.

I think that Pop-punk, Hot Topic Jared Leto Joker is the perfect foil for endlessly grim Affleck Batman.
posted by sleeping bear at 6:55 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


And if you're a fan of Deborah Ann Woll's Karen Page in the new (and heavily Miller influenced) Daredevil series, do yourself a favour and never look up what Miller did with that character.
posted by thecjm at 6:58 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


While I did somewhat enjoy his portrayal of the Kryptonian, even I think Frank Miller is a terrible person.
posted by Alexander J. Luthor at 7:03 PM on April 24, 2015 [6 favorites]


The Moz says DKSA is a hidden masterpeice as well... I suspect that's bollocks but I may read it again to test that.

IIRC it was also his last collaboration with Lynn Varley, who was his anchor to sanity.
posted by Artw at 7:04 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Let's rememeber better times... Dourdevil.
posted by Artw at 7:05 PM on April 24, 2015 [7 favorites]


I've read DKSA many, many times and unless something has changed it is not good and often creepy.
posted by griphus at 7:07 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


plz i feel my name has been drug thru muds enuff plz my update name filter is tired from reminders of movies that did not needs to beeeees
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:08 PM on April 24, 2015 [8 favorites]


Jesus...had days like this.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:11 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Oh, go electrocute your prime directive, you'll feel better again.
posted by Artw at 7:12 PM on April 24, 2015


Frank Miller in the 80's and '90s is like Dennis Miller in the '80s and '90s. Razor sharp, prescient, never failing to include or punch up. I'll never forgive Al Qaeda for unleashing the Brain Eater on them.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:12 PM on April 24, 2015 [15 favorites]


A year of free beer to the person who splinters Frank Miller to a different time line.

Free.

Beer.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:12 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


also there is the new joker so there we are
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:17 PM on April 24, 2015


I feel the company he keeps these days explains a lot.
posted by Artw at 7:18 PM on April 24, 2015


The “THE DARK KNIGHT III: THE MASTER RACE” is the sequel to Miller’s 1986 classic THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS – heralded by TIME Magazine as one of the 10 greatest graphic novels of all time – and its 2001-2002 follow-up series BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT STRIKES AGAIN.

...heralded by no one.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:19 PM on April 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


Faint of Butt: "And in other WTFDC news, the first official photo of Jared Leto as the Joker in Suicide Squad has just been released.."

That's bad, but so close to being good. They're just overdoing it. Drop the tattoos and the grill, and that looks a lot inspired by Conrad Veidt in The Man Who Laughs, which is the only reference you should ever need for a scary, creepy Joker.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:23 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Yeah, but add the tattoos and the grill, and he's something out of a Prodigy video. Or Die Antwoord. Not good reference material.
posted by kafziel at 7:26 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Haven't read any of the Dark Knight trilogy, but Frank Miller did the Batman issue where he and Robin have to fight Green Lantern for some reason, so they paint everything yellow, right? That was fun. No obvious political message one way or the other, just not-quite-serious playing around with the rules of super powers.
posted by Rangi at 7:28 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


I feel the company he keeps these days explains a lot.

Ignoring the company, in that photo Miller totally looks like a musician who gave me a total diva act a few years ago when suchatreat and I owned an event business. He was an electronic musician who played a didgeridoo. So you can imagine how closely I listened.

Frank Miller is a wonderful gift to teenage males. Once you realize his stuff is from hunger you find you have started to grow up. The only problem is his shit still sells.
posted by yerfatma at 7:30 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


He looked better then than he does now. Last time he showed up at a con there was much speculation he might he about to drop dead.
posted by Artw at 7:32 PM on April 24, 2015


in that photo Miller totally looks like a musician who gave me a total diva act

He looks a heckuva lot better there than he does now. He was never particularly good-looking, but the guy's only 58, what the hell happened? He looks like he's aged 30 years in the last 10, and I didn't notice the two canes until just now.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:40 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Or what that other guy said.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:42 PM on April 24, 2015


I had to google Ms Halliburton Cox (apparently she's been in two dreadful films I suffered through) and the first link described her as "a Shakespeare scholar, and purportedly a hairless, pasty chimp."

I assume with a name like that she's related to the Family Halliburton (and that there is a Family Halliburton)... but then I realised the current president of Halliburton is one Jeff Miller.
Co-incidence?
I think not.
It's all connected: 9/11, Iraq, Blackwater, ISIS.

It's all falling into place now.
posted by Mezentian at 7:42 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


but the guy's only 58, what the hell happened?

Whores.
Whores got their hooks into him.
And too many nights on the road, in lonely bars.
posted by Mezentian at 7:44 PM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


Rumor is cancer. I dunno, he's always been a hateful little goblin, maybe the truth is finally shining through.
posted by kafziel at 7:48 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


kafziel: "Rumor is cancer. I dunno, he's always been a hateful little goblin, maybe the truth is finally shining through"

Yeah, that looks like cancer or some sort of other horrible disease. Which, honestly, I don't wish on him or anyone, no matter how horrible people they are (and he's pretty horrible).
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:56 PM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


kafziel: "Yeah, but add the tattoos and the grill, and he's something out of a Prodigy video. Or Die Antwoord. Not good reference material."

I could even live with the grill, but the "HA HA HA HA HA HA" tattoos and the gangsta "J" on his face just ruins everything.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 7:57 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Wait till you see his monster truck!
posted by Artw at 8:00 PM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


He's being made up to look like Mayrlin Manson. Who cares. The best actor to ever inhabit the role was a tiny little blonde 70's reject who played Luke Skywalker... the second best, yeah Heath Ledger looked the part even after Makeup got done with him, but Nicholson? They should have left the prosthetic smile off, but they didn't, he was awesome anyway.

Fourth Best? They tried to paint over his mustache. He still nailed it.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:09 PM on April 24, 2015 [6 favorites]


"See, it's going to be like that Krigstein comic, but with cranky Batman and some whores!"

Cranky whores?

God, that Leto Joker is garbage.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:16 PM on April 24, 2015


A few things to respond to here.

Mainly I pretend he died sometime around 2001.

That's being a little generous IMO; the last things that he did that I can still enjoy are Batman: Year One and Daredevil: Born Again. TDKR really hasn't aged well, and I found aspects of it problematic even back in the eighties; the Martha Washington books seemed very much like Miller trying his best to do his own version of Howard Chaykin's American Flagg!, in which one of the characters, Medea Blitz, is a black woman with close-cropped blonde hair in uniform. (Chaykin is someone else who was a big star in the eighties whose star has since faded, but he hasn't said or done anything egregiously offensive like Miller, and American Flagg! holds up surprisingly well.) I gave up on Miller before Sin City, which showcased both his enduring ability to achieve some really striking things with visual design and his increasingly-puerile writing. DKSA was just awful; it might make a bit of sense if for whatever reason Miller wanted to do a Pat Mills-Kevin O'Neill Marshal Law-style pisstake on his own work in TDKR, but it's not nearly as good as what Mills and O'Neill could have done.

[rumors about his health]

The Sin City 2 premiere pics certainly look like chemo. This profile from Wired (which include the pictures that make him look about 100) says that "a columnist for Portland's Oregonian mentioned rumors that the writer 'is really struggling with health and dependency issues' and that 'friends and colleagues are fearing the worst.' Miller has no comment."
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:21 PM on April 24, 2015 [2 favorites]


Chris Sims on TDKR:

See, here’s the thing about DKR: A lot of people see it as a companion piece to Miller’s other groundbreaking work with the character (alongside the incredible David Mazzucchelli), Year One. They view them as the Alpha and Omega of Batman stories, a beginning and an ending that every other Batman story can (and must) fall between. David Brothers even wrote a very compelling piece about this idea, and even managed to fit All Star Batman & Robin in there somehow, and at first glance, it all really makes sense. But, at least in the way I look at things, that’s only half right.

Year One and The Dark Knight Returns are bookends, but not to each other. They’re in the other order: DKR is the ending of everything that came before it, and Year One is the start of something new, the version of Batman that we have today.

posted by Artw at 9:05 PM on April 24, 2015 [7 favorites]


I love that Miller announced this with a photoshop of a drawing from 1996 and a bitchy tweet. Fingers crossed for a whole comic like that. Two hundred and fifty or so versions of this page.

Leto Joker looks like a Juggalo. It'd be awesome if in the Jerk Superman Batfleckiverse, our introduction to Joker is a movie where Deadshot makes fun of his tattoos for two hours.
posted by EatTheWeak at 9:23 PM on April 24, 2015 [8 favorites]


Robocop III is unsalvagably bad.

No it's brilliant. I don't just say that because Frank wrote the opening scenario about me and my eviction battle, when I lived right across the street from his loft. It's insanely awesome. Only a madman would write a movie about the Japanese nuking Detroit. And the final battle scene is one of the first really great works of surround sound.

Yeah, like any movie, it has problems. One of the biggest ones was the pressure to reduce the body count. If you want to see something really bad, you should see the Robocop TV series where he used non-lethal weapons only.
posted by charlie don't surf at 9:35 PM on April 24, 2015


I like to think his contribution was writing the word "NINJAS" on a card and sticking it to the wall.
posted by Artw at 9:42 PM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


I'm really hoping Azarello mediates Millers more rabid tendencies but I'm not hopeful.
posted by doctor_negative at 9:51 PM on April 24, 2015


For those wondering how long Miller was writing Daredevil before introducing ninjas and/or a doomed love interest Elektra shows up four pages in. It's another issue before we get to a grid page of televisions and another after that before there is a scene set in Japan. Bullseye gets throwing stars soon after - though even before he started writing it he was drawing random street thugs as having ninja weapons.
posted by Artw at 9:57 PM on April 24, 2015 [5 favorites]


I'm really hoping Azarello mediates Millers more rabid tendencies but I'm not hopeful.

I'm not speculating on what happened, but if I was a high-up DC mucky-muck who wanted to get Miller's name/blessing on a DKR/DKSA sequel and needed someone who could ape his style closely enough to be plausible without actually winding up with a Holy Terror-style abomination on my hands, Azzarello would be the "co-author" I'd tap.
posted by kagredon at 10:21 PM on April 24, 2015


Artw: "Wait till you see his monster truck!"

Is it this one?
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:43 PM on April 24, 2015 [4 favorites]


Halloween Jack: "This profile from Wired (which include the pictures that make him look about 100)"

...and where he mentions Ayn Rand as an influence. Yeah, I'm done.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 10:49 PM on April 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


Anyone wanna take bets on how many copies of DK3 will be purchased just to see what a trainwreck it is? I'm guessing at least 50%.

Me, I'm not sure I even want to bother torrenting it. I'll just skim over reviews and let someone else find all the mind-bogglingly bugfuck bits for me.
posted by egypturnash at 10:50 PM on April 24, 2015


Anyone wanna take bets on how many copies of DK3 will be purchased just to see what a trainwreck it is?

If we're going for an apples to apples comparison, how did Batman: Odyssey sell?
posted by Mezentian at 10:56 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


Worked with FM on a couple of projects recently, and spoke to him last a few months ago; his inner crank and fading health notwithstanding, concerns about his toxic entourage are not misplaced.
posted by progosk at 10:58 PM on April 24, 2015 [6 favorites]


Speechless. Chris Evans, as Ghost Rider, meets the sultry noir heroine from the Fringeverse's version of Speed Racer and they make out to Depeche Mode.

Never have so many things I theoretically like been mixed together thus .... to sell perfume?
posted by Mezentian at 11:03 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


New Bruce Wayne
posted by Artw at 11:14 PM on April 24, 2015 [14 favorites]


It should probably be pointed out that that new Joker is for a Suicide Squad movie, not a Batman movie. I'm not personally familiar with Suicide Squad, but I'm told this interpretation of Joker is entirely in line with that series' aesthetic.
posted by rifflesby at 11:26 PM on April 24, 2015 [1 favorite]


"Holy silent coup, Batman! Those liberals were rotten all along!"
"That's right, old chum. Now Gotham is counting on us ... to tell it like it is."
posted by EatTheWeak at 11:50 PM on April 24, 2015 [3 favorites]


I like to think his contribution was writing the word "NINJAS" on a card and sticking it to the wall.

There were fucking Al Qaeda Ninjas in Holy Terror.
Didn't 300 have ninjas too, or am I misremembering?
NINJAS!
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 12:33 AM on April 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


"That's right, old chum. Now Gotham is counting on us ... to tell it like it is. yt "

I can't tell you how many times I have played that clip, over and over.
And then been saddened by NuHarley at the end.

Man.
posted by Mezentian at 3:11 AM on April 25, 2015


Every time I hear a story about something new Frank Miller is doing it gets harder and harder to believe it's the same person who wrote Daredevil 191.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:37 AM on April 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


I liked Dark Knight Strikes Back a lot. I was super skeptical that it would be any good, and was surprised that I liked it (not because Frank Miller, but because typically, most great reads that have a sequel so long afterwards, imho, seem rarely anywhere as good). It's true that there is zanier art stuff going on, the cast of (superhero) characters is increased, and the weird "Joker" subplot, but those all appealed to me.

Still.... going round for a 3rd try seems extra iffy. I will still check it out.

Batman: Year 80?
posted by bitterkitten at 8:12 AM on April 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Batman: Year 80

That reminds me! Neu 52 Batman is the sort of comic where Joker cuts his face off and Alfred's hand off and me off from wanting to read any more of it but in the recent Detective Comics #27 75th anniversary issue, there is a great short called Better Days about Bruce and his family celebrating his 75th birthday. It's a tribute to DKR, but it transcends it with just a handful of pages. It's warm and sweet and funny - an old man Batman story without any of Miller's reactionary horseshit. I considered it worth the cover price alone.
posted by EatTheWeak at 9:59 AM on April 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


No Varley, though.
posted by Bigfoot Mandala at 3:55 PM on April 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


So... grimdark Miracleman in other words?
posted by kokaku at 4:36 PM on April 25, 2015


Miracle Man is like the ur-Grimdark already.
posted by Artw at 4:41 PM on April 25, 2015 [1 favorite]


Artw: "Miracle Man is like the ur-Grimdark already."

Beaten. SooooooOOOOOOOOOOooooo grimdark.
posted by Samizdata at 4:52 PM on April 25, 2015


#OhFrankMillerNo!
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 5:51 PM on April 25, 2015


ILU GREG
posted by middleclasstool at 8:25 PM on April 25, 2015 [2 favorites]




Speaking of darkness, DC have released their first image of the new Suicide Squad.

Well they are insane, and a posse. And they have a clown.
posted by Mezentian at 12:41 AM on May 4, 2015


I don't like how the women are unarmed and coquettish. I do like that the three men without Scary Big Guns are likely the most dangerous. I love that Will Smith is playing an irredeemable villain with only the barest of anti-hero figleafs, and that Captain Boomerang looks out of place, an ill-put-together schlub. That character always works best when surprising the hell out of everyone.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:25 AM on May 4, 2015


It almost feels like some kind of prank that Suicide Squad will be the first Bat-related movie Schumacher to acknowledge Robin ...

... because JuggaJoker MURDERED him before the MOVIE STARTS, bwahahahaha, #darkness #noparents
posted by EatTheWeak at 7:06 AM on May 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


. I love that Will Smith is playing an irredeemable villain

Man, the CW verision scores better again.
posted by Mezentian at 7:08 AM on May 4, 2015


On the other hand, Katana rules and it's rad as heck that she's gonna be in a movie. If she survives Suicide Squad and the DC movies gradually build up a Batfleck and the Outsiders entry, that would be extremely impressive. Would anyone but me go to see it? Unknown. But I'd be super impressed.
posted by EatTheWeak at 7:13 AM on May 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


The best decision Arrow made about Katana is to not call her fucking Katana, jesus christ. Also getting rid of the Japanese flag costume. Generally making there be aspects of character that aren't "is Japanese".
posted by kafziel at 12:53 PM on May 4, 2015 [3 favorites]


Man, the CW verision scores better again.

Oh, don't get me wrong. This is what Deadshot does. He makes you feel sorry for a superhuman who puts poison bullets into people for money and/or fun, and maybe - this time - he gets his shit together. No. He saves the day by putting poison bullets into people, and not caring very much if he dies or not in the process, while maundering on about his ill-spent life, and what coulda been.

Then he comes back from certain death to do it all over again.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:44 PM on May 4, 2015 [1 favorite]


Original look Deadshot - I could have gone with this TBH.
posted by Artw at 7:53 PM on May 4, 2015 [2 favorites]


I'm surprised by how much I don't hate Harley's costume. I mean, it's still no jester outfit, I sort of feel like she's probably getting cold hanging out in a drafty-looking prison in booty shorts and tights, and there's still the going-overboard with tatts (DC plz it is 2015 tattoos are not edgy tattoos have not been edgy for at least a decade), but I think between their handling of her in the nu-52 and the earlier Joker picture I was expecting much worse. Keep lowering those expectations, guys! It's working!
posted by kagredon at 8:07 PM on May 4, 2015


The best decision Arrow made about Katana is to not call her fucking Katana, jesus christ. Also getting rid of the Japanese flag costume. Generally making there be aspects of character that aren't "is Japanese".

Well, prepare to be disappointed!

I'm not as up on the Nu52 version, and by Outsiders reading is from decades ago, but while I still kinda like the classic look, I prefer the new version.

Now, if only her sword was possessed by her dead ex-husband, or whoever.
posted by Mezentian at 3:21 AM on May 5, 2015


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