American Idiocy - Vol.542
May 25, 2015 1:52 PM Subscribe
A recent study served to confirm the patently obvious: song lyrics for the most popular genres of music are ridiculously obtuse — and getting worse over time. Though this might not be a revelation, the figures are distressing indicators of both an intellectually vapid societal and cultural future as well as its apparent inevitability.
So how did this happen and why is it getting even worse? For the sake of brevity, this is a systemic issue being reinforced across the board by pandemic anti-intellectualism. Some have argued there is no harm in a bit of mindless distraction, but this is incontrovertibly false. When just six corporations control 90% of the media, and 80% of radio stations have identical playlists, mindless content isn’t a choice — it’s a virtual mandate. In this self-propelled cycle of banality, the conglomerates dictate content to be promoted by radio, which in turn pushes it endlessly, creating a false perception that what is being played is due to listener demand. But this insidious marketing ploy is more akin to kidnapping and is every bit as dangerous.
So how did this happen and why is it getting even worse? For the sake of brevity, this is a systemic issue being reinforced across the board by pandemic anti-intellectualism. Some have argued there is no harm in a bit of mindless distraction, but this is incontrovertibly false. When just six corporations control 90% of the media, and 80% of radio stations have identical playlists, mindless content isn’t a choice — it’s a virtual mandate. In this self-propelled cycle of banality, the conglomerates dictate content to be promoted by radio, which in turn pushes it endlessly, creating a false perception that what is being played is due to listener demand. But this insidious marketing ploy is more akin to kidnapping and is every bit as dangerous.
But this insidious marketing ploy is more akin to kidnapping and is every bit as dangerous.
Beyond the breathless hyperbole, I genuinely don't see a problem with the increasingly moribund radio format being taken over. My kids find their music via YouTube and ask me to fast-forward through the ads when we listen to the radio (which is itself only when I run out of kid-friendly podcasts and don't feel like finding my kid-friendly playlist on the phone).
posted by Etrigan at 1:58 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Beyond the breathless hyperbole, I genuinely don't see a problem with the increasingly moribund radio format being taken over. My kids find their music via YouTube and ask me to fast-forward through the ads when we listen to the radio (which is itself only when I run out of kid-friendly podcasts and don't feel like finding my kid-friendly playlist on the phone).
posted by Etrigan at 1:58 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
You want an education through music? Listen to classical music. Pop music is meant to be stupid.
posted by Renoroc at 1:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Renoroc at 1:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
See, in the old days the songs told a story, and they had a proper tune. Now it's just boom, boom, boom.
posted by Segundus at 2:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [24 favorites]
posted by Segundus at 2:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [24 favorites]
Tell that to Cole Porter.
posted by blucevalo at 2:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by blucevalo at 2:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
Bonobothegreat won the thread in the first comment. Remarkable.
posted by edheil at 2:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by edheil at 2:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Meaning, in reference to the "Pop music is meant to be stupid" comment above.)
posted by blucevalo at 2:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by blucevalo at 2:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
The best lyrics I hear are often the simplest. Sappho's poems, some of the greatest lyrics the world has ever seen, are often very basic, which is part of their power. Complex vocabulary is not required for complex or profound meaning.
posted by sallybrown at 2:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 2:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
song lyrics for the most popular genres of music are ridiculously obtuse
No, the listeners are obtuse. The lyrics are simpleminded.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:05 PM on May 25, 2015 [58 favorites]
No, the listeners are obtuse. The lyrics are simpleminded.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:05 PM on May 25, 2015 [58 favorites]
Eh, not sure measuring the reading level vocabulary of lyrics over a ten year period is an accurate measure of the intellectual content of the lyrics. I mean, e e cummings wrote poems that could be read by a kindergartner, but the content was a whole other matter.
Now if you'll excuse me, I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike, I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride it where I like.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:06 PM on May 25, 2015 [59 favorites]
Now if you'll excuse me, I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike, I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride it where I like.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:06 PM on May 25, 2015 [59 favorites]
Maybe if they spent less time standing on my lawn they'd have more time to practice their reading.
Huh, just looked up the lyrics for "The Good Life" and those are some pretty easy reading.
I would like a web page that pulls up my last.fm account and tells me the reading level of my own listening materials.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:06 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Huh, just looked up the lyrics for "The Good Life" and those are some pretty easy reading.
I would like a web page that pulls up my last.fm account and tells me the reading level of my own listening materials.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:06 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
I genuinely don't see a problem with the increasingly moribund radio format being taken over. My kids find their music via YouTube and
this from the second paragraph of the article is probably relevant:
If you’ve already moved away from Billboard music, congratulations, you refuse to be insulted. But if you haven’t, or if you’re concerned about pop culture trends acting as portents of systemic dysfunction, you should probably pay attention.
posted by philip-random at 2:07 PM on May 25, 2015
this from the second paragraph of the article is probably relevant:
If you’ve already moved away from Billboard music, congratulations, you refuse to be insulted. But if you haven’t, or if you’re concerned about pop culture trends acting as portents of systemic dysfunction, you should probably pay attention.
posted by philip-random at 2:07 PM on May 25, 2015
From that study:
"While the results are certainly enlightening, it’s important to note that this data doesn’t touch on the meaning of a song, the metaphors, how the words connect with the artist’s personal story, etc. to create deeper meaning."
I dunno if this thing is really solid enough to hang that polemic on.
posted by box at 2:08 PM on May 25, 2015 [22 favorites]
"While the results are certainly enlightening, it’s important to note that this data doesn’t touch on the meaning of a song, the metaphors, how the words connect with the artist’s personal story, etc. to create deeper meaning."
I dunno if this thing is really solid enough to hang that polemic on.
posted by box at 2:08 PM on May 25, 2015 [22 favorites]
This is not a very convincing analysis. For one thing, the actual trends look pretty washed out, particularly broken down by genre. For another, this analysis also depends very heavily on automated "readability tests" -- but the tests used in the article seem to literally only measure how long or "complex" the individual words are in the lyric. They therefore can't measure anything like wordplay, complexity of emotion or storytelling, allusiveness, etc., etc. All this analysis is saying is that pop songs don't use a lot of polysyllabic words and that pop songs from today maybe use slightly fewer than those from ten years ago. The first of these claims is obvious and the second isn't even particularly compelling to me given the data they present.
posted by en forme de poire at 2:09 PM on May 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 2:09 PM on May 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
But ... I don't want to be an American idiot!
Don't want a nation under the new mania!
posted by kyrademon at 2:10 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
Don't want a nation under the new mania!
posted by kyrademon at 2:10 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
I listen to two top 40 rap stations for the most part on my commute (92Q and 95.5) while also switching between NPR. Songs are typically fairly complex in terms of their referencing between other songs and the wordplay of the lyrics. In fact I would often rank it as more intellectually stimulating than whatever NPR is trotting out.
posted by codacorolla at 2:10 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 2:10 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
Steve Allen agrees. yt
also Peter O'Toole
posted by philip-random at 2:12 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
also Peter O'Toole
posted by philip-random at 2:12 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't know if I'm smart but I think I can see
when someone is pullin' the wool over me.
posted by sallybrown at 2:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
when someone is pullin' the wool over me.
posted by sallybrown at 2:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
This favorite music of yours?
It sucks, dummy.
posted by chavenet at 2:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
It sucks, dummy.
posted by chavenet at 2:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hahahahaha, by their metric "Dani California" by RHCP is one of the most intelligent songs of the past 10 years.
You know,
Black bandana sweet Louisiana
Robbin' on a bank in the state of Indiana
She’s a runner, rebel and a stunner
On her merry way sayin’
Baby what you gonna
posted by codacorolla at 2:16 PM on May 25, 2015 [22 favorites]
You know,
Black bandana sweet Louisiana
Robbin' on a bank in the state of Indiana
She’s a runner, rebel and a stunner
On her merry way sayin’
Baby what you gonna
posted by codacorolla at 2:16 PM on May 25, 2015 [22 favorites]
Mariah Carey has to be up there by that measure. (I love Mariah - not knocking her.)
posted by sallybrown at 2:18 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 2:18 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ugh I hate, hate, hate articles like this. It's elitism dressed up as scientific analysis, with the added insult of pretending it's about a concern for the masses.
There are articles like this all the time, too: Science Proves: Pop Music Has Actually Gotten Worse (Smithsonian), Scientists Prove That Pop Music Is Literally Ruining Our Brains (Slate)
It's such condescending bullshit. And for some reason it always comes back to how the good ol' white guys were the ones who made real music: from Vox, "Unsurprisingly, they found that modern pop is a watered-down version of what John, Paul, George and Ringo used to rock the charts with." Never mind that today's pop music is more syncopated than ever, that we're seeing more influences in terms of style and substance, from soul music, to hip hop, to dance music. Never mind that music is experienced in ways beyond, I dunno, how many syllables each word is.
It's patently absurd, and it gets trotted out because people feel out of touch with today's music trends. So everyone gets to pretend that science justifies their hatred of whatever is currently popular, when really it's just that they don't get pop music and don't want to.
posted by teponaztli at 2:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [105 favorites]
There are articles like this all the time, too: Science Proves: Pop Music Has Actually Gotten Worse (Smithsonian), Scientists Prove That Pop Music Is Literally Ruining Our Brains (Slate)
It's such condescending bullshit. And for some reason it always comes back to how the good ol' white guys were the ones who made real music: from Vox, "Unsurprisingly, they found that modern pop is a watered-down version of what John, Paul, George and Ringo used to rock the charts with." Never mind that today's pop music is more syncopated than ever, that we're seeing more influences in terms of style and substance, from soul music, to hip hop, to dance music. Never mind that music is experienced in ways beyond, I dunno, how many syllables each word is.
It's patently absurd, and it gets trotted out because people feel out of touch with today's music trends. So everyone gets to pretend that science justifies their hatred of whatever is currently popular, when really it's just that they don't get pop music and don't want to.
posted by teponaztli at 2:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [105 favorites]
Every generation thinks the generation that comes after it is packed with blithering idiots.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 2:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
the tests used in the article seem to literally only measure how long or "complex" the individual words are in the lyric.
It sort of reminds me of how when, somewhere around junior high, you start to get the notion that using long-ass SAT words when simpler ones will do will make you seem smarter.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:22 PM on May 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
It sort of reminds me of how when, somewhere around junior high, you start to get the notion that using long-ass SAT words when simpler ones will do will make you seem smarter.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:22 PM on May 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
This is wrong. I'm pretty smart. A lot of my friends are pretty smart. And we listen to some really dumb songs. In fact, our appreciation for pop music in general has increased over the last many years; we're all more likely to get down with some killer pop cheese than we were in our (relative) youth. But I'm a lot smarter than I was in high school or college (I would say that, though :)!
We listen to "smart" songs, too, but that's not reflected in the Billboard charts (Weird Al's recent success excepted).
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:23 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
We listen to "smart" songs, too, but that's not reflected in the Billboard charts (Weird Al's recent success excepted).
posted by wemayfreeze at 2:23 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Give Anthony Kiedis an eightball of coke, a rhyming dictionary and a blank composition book if you want some mind rendingly smart music for smart people. He probably gets at least 2 grade levels alone for rhyming California with California.
posted by codacorolla at 2:24 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 2:24 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
See also: "lost my house key" with "I read Bukowski".
(Yes I've mentioned that before; it's an infuriatingly dumb lyric.)
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:26 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
(Yes I've mentioned that before; it's an infuriatingly dumb lyric.)
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:26 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Cut Kiedis some slack, he did have that prophetic dream about David Duchovny getting a new TV show.
posted by cortex at 2:26 PM on May 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex at 2:26 PM on May 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
If you’ve already moved away from Billboard music, congratulations, you refuse to be insulted. But if you haven’t, or if you’re concerned about pop culture trends acting as portents of systemic dysfunction, you should probably pay attention.
Ah, now see, I've kept the Billboard music and moved away from being "concerned about pop culture trends acting as portents of systemic dysfunction." If you live like that, you live with ghosts.
posted by kagredon at 2:27 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ah, now see, I've kept the Billboard music and moved away from being "concerned about pop culture trends acting as portents of systemic dysfunction." If you live like that, you live with ghosts.
posted by kagredon at 2:27 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
> "... the tests used in the article seem to literally only measure how long or 'complex' the individual words are in the lyric."
Because clearly, Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is targeted at the literati and requires a PhD to understand!
posted by kyrademon at 2:29 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
Because clearly, Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious is targeted at the literati and requires a PhD to understand!
posted by kyrademon at 2:29 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
If you’ve already moved away from Billboard music, congratulations, you refuse to be insulted.
Many of us have moved away from Billboard as a useful metric for what's going on in music in the age of youtube.
(While we're mocking, could we put in a plug for Michael Stipe's early improvisational mumbling?)
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:29 PM on May 25, 2015
Many of us have moved away from Billboard as a useful metric for what's going on in music in the age of youtube.
(While we're mocking, could we put in a plug for Michael Stipe's early improvisational mumbling?)
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:29 PM on May 25, 2015
Aren't half the lyrics to "Make It Funky" just JB calling out a lunch order? As Christgau said, you listen to James Brown for music, not songs.
posted by Lorin at 2:30 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Lorin at 2:30 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
If I refused to be insulted, I wouldn't have read this article.
posted by teponaztli at 2:31 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 2:31 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
but who's using parthenogenesis these days?
posted by philip-random at 2:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 2:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Every generation thinks the generation that comes after it is packed with blithering idiots.
And vice versa.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:35 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
And vice versa.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:35 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Even aside from cheesy pop with simple lyrics (which has value of its own!) there are a ton of emotional, heartrending songs with, on a word by word basis, very simple lyrics. To judge them as stupid or vapid without taking into account the music itself, the emotional register, or the vocals, is to entirely miss the point of music as an art form.
How many big words are in a song has no bearing on its emotional impact. None! Nor on its danceability or its catchiness or its ability to tell a story or its musical complexity. It's quite possibly one of the most useless possible metrics for music.
posted by yasaman at 2:36 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
How many big words are in a song has no bearing on its emotional impact. None! Nor on its danceability or its catchiness or its ability to tell a story or its musical complexity. It's quite possibly one of the most useless possible metrics for music.
posted by yasaman at 2:36 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
On non-preview, this exactly: I dunno if this thing is really solid enough to hang that polemic on. The whole thing rests on equating the use of simple language with intellectual vacuity. If that were the entire article, it would already be pretty tenuous -- but then on top of that, the author uses this as the springboard for an even more tenuous rant that links the alleged stupidity of pop music to things like the gutting of the USA's educational system or the normalization of pervasive government spying. Come on. This isn't a serious argument, it's just "get off my lawn" (complete with an uncritical swipe at hip-hop) with a vague spritz of "eau de politics."
posted by en forme de poire at 2:37 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by en forme de poire at 2:37 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Aren't half the lyrics to "Make it Funky" just JB calling out a lunch order
Someone left that cake out in the rain.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:38 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
Someone left that cake out in the rain.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:38 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
Fuck art, let's boogie!
posted by jonmc at 2:39 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 2:39 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Bad news: according to wordcalc.com, there is a mean of only 1.48 syllables per word in this article. Clearly this says terrible things about today's educational system.
posted by teponaztli at 2:40 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by teponaztli at 2:40 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
I agree. What is coming to the youth of today when they prefer the stultifying lyrical inanity of contemporary music to the thought-provoking philosophical musings of days gone by.
posted by KathrynT at 2:41 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by KathrynT at 2:41 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
However, one group of listeners showed a genuine and significant lack of creativity: pop music lovers.
That doesn't necessarily mean that stupid people love pop — just that pop trains us to expect less from our artistic and creative lives.
no, no, no - what it really means is that they want to hear music that won't distract them by making them really listen to it or think about it
---
Researchers have thoroughly documented that pop music is the "heavy equipment" of the adolescent years.
the link is dated 1997 - and in 18 years, pop music isn't heavy equipment anymore, but sonic wallpaper
i had a chance to actually listen to the billboard top 100 a couple of months ago - it's kind of dire for the most part - but it's not as if people are really listening to it
the biggest thing you need to know about pop music is this - it's just another genre these days and isn't that popular
posted by pyramid termite at 2:43 PM on May 25, 2015
That doesn't necessarily mean that stupid people love pop — just that pop trains us to expect less from our artistic and creative lives.
no, no, no - what it really means is that they want to hear music that won't distract them by making them really listen to it or think about it
---
Researchers have thoroughly documented that pop music is the "heavy equipment" of the adolescent years.
the link is dated 1997 - and in 18 years, pop music isn't heavy equipment anymore, but sonic wallpaper
i had a chance to actually listen to the billboard top 100 a couple of months ago - it's kind of dire for the most part - but it's not as if people are really listening to it
the biggest thing you need to know about pop music is this - it's just another genre these days and isn't that popular
posted by pyramid termite at 2:43 PM on May 25, 2015
Fuck art, let's boogie!
Can't. I have a fever. I think it's going around.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:44 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Can't. I have a fever. I think it's going around.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:44 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Please don't overlook the likelihood that both are true: this article is useless and pop music is brainless dreck.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:47 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 2:47 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
Lorin: Aren't half the lyrics to "Make it Funky" just JB calling out a lunch order? As Christgau said, you listen to James Brown for music, not songs.
On the one hand you have a classical tradition where comprehension of the lyrics is secondary to the melodic content, and on the other hand you have the jazz tradition of vocalized instrumental lines on the theory that you can't play it if you can't sing it. (In between, someone put the bomp in the bomp, a bomp a bomp.) Quite possibly the data is skewed by increased popularity of electronic dance music based on the idea that a vocal sample is just another musical instrument to be manipulated.
pyramid termite: no, no, no - what it really means is that they want to hear music that won't distract them by making them really listen to it or think about it
Sure. One of the things I've noticed is that I can't listen to music with heavy lyrical content when I'm working. As much as I love songwriters like Kate Bush, Tom Waits, and Neko Case, my work/study music needs to be classical, downtempo electronica, or non-English lyrics.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:47 PM on May 25, 2015
On the one hand you have a classical tradition where comprehension of the lyrics is secondary to the melodic content, and on the other hand you have the jazz tradition of vocalized instrumental lines on the theory that you can't play it if you can't sing it. (In between, someone put the bomp in the bomp, a bomp a bomp.) Quite possibly the data is skewed by increased popularity of electronic dance music based on the idea that a vocal sample is just another musical instrument to be manipulated.
pyramid termite: no, no, no - what it really means is that they want to hear music that won't distract them by making them really listen to it or think about it
Sure. One of the things I've noticed is that I can't listen to music with heavy lyrical content when I'm working. As much as I love songwriters like Kate Bush, Tom Waits, and Neko Case, my work/study music needs to be classical, downtempo electronica, or non-English lyrics.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 2:47 PM on May 25, 2015
New York, London, Paris, Munich / Everybody talk about pop musik!
posted by comealongpole at 2:49 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by comealongpole at 2:49 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Although I have no idea who is on the Billboard 100 and haven't cared ever I look to the Tea Party and the Republican party for superb examples of absolute idiocy and for prime evidence that the intellectually vapid societal and cultural future talked about is already here and has been for quite some time. Pop music fuck all to do with such things.
posted by juiceCake at 2:51 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by juiceCake at 2:51 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Everything sucks.
posted by rankfreudlite at 2:51 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rankfreudlite at 2:51 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I get no kick from Champagne
mere alcohol
doesn't thrill me at all
so tell me why should it be true
that I get a kick out of you...
(etc)
Mostly one syllable, and representative. Poor Cole wouldn't fare so well. In those days people just didn't know how to write witty, clever lyrics full of wordplay.
posted by librosegretti at 2:52 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
mere alcohol
doesn't thrill me at all
so tell me why should it be true
that I get a kick out of you...
(etc)
Mostly one syllable, and representative. Poor Cole wouldn't fare so well. In those days people just didn't know how to write witty, clever lyrics full of wordplay.
posted by librosegretti at 2:52 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Is there a lawn here we want people to get off of? I'm an old lady but as far back as I can remember the older generation was knocking the music that came after their sainted youth, when songs had a tune and lyrics were sensible, beautiful and real. Probably it has been going on since some cavepeople gave up that old-time stick on rock rhythm for the decadent mindless newfangled bone flute.
posted by mermayd at 2:52 PM on May 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by mermayd at 2:52 PM on May 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
Man, people have said things like this about Rock and Roll, Punk Rock, Metal and Rap for forever. I agree with all the people saying articles like this one are mostly ignorable pap.
However, this is important: When just six corporations control 90% of the media, and 80% of radio stations have identical playlists, mindless content isn’t a choice — it’s a virtual mandate.
Let's not forget that Punk, Rock, Metal and Rap all started out in the 10% of media that isn't controlled by those corporations.
You can listen to Miley Cyrus all you want, just... try to find something that's not on the same radio station as her, too, ok? The next most amazing music you can't live without is probably being invented by people who can't get on the fucking radio, and their youtube links aren't being passed around or listened to at parties and their spotify tracks are in the low hundreds. For now.
posted by shmegegge at 2:54 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
However, this is important: When just six corporations control 90% of the media, and 80% of radio stations have identical playlists, mindless content isn’t a choice — it’s a virtual mandate.
Let's not forget that Punk, Rock, Metal and Rap all started out in the 10% of media that isn't controlled by those corporations.
You can listen to Miley Cyrus all you want, just... try to find something that's not on the same radio station as her, too, ok? The next most amazing music you can't live without is probably being invented by people who can't get on the fucking radio, and their youtube links aren't being passed around or listened to at parties and their spotify tracks are in the low hundreds. For now.
posted by shmegegge at 2:54 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
tbh though the article doesn't strike me as old guy ranting about KIDS THESE DAYS as much as it does precocious high school freshman railing against the poseurs
A recent study served to confirm the patently obvious: song lyrics for the most popular genres of music are ridiculously obtuse — and getting worse over time. Though this might not be a revelation, the figures are distressing indicators of both an intellectually vapid societal and cultural future as well as its apparent inevitability.
It sort of reminds me of how when, somewhere around junior high, you start to get the notion that using long-ass SAT words when simpler ones will do will make you seem smarter.
(the overheated sincerity is actually kind of endearing)
posted by kagredon at 2:56 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
A recent study served to confirm the patently obvious: song lyrics for the most popular genres of music are ridiculously obtuse — and getting worse over time. Though this might not be a revelation, the figures are distressing indicators of both an intellectually vapid societal and cultural future as well as its apparent inevitability.
It sort of reminds me of how when, somewhere around junior high, you start to get the notion that using long-ass SAT words when simpler ones will do will make you seem smarter.
(the overheated sincerity is actually kind of endearing)
posted by kagredon at 2:56 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
Can't. I have a fever. I think it's going around.
And the only cure is more cowbell?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 2:57 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
And the only cure is more cowbell?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 2:57 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wake up little sheeple, wake up!
posted by josher71 at 2:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by josher71 at 2:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
"ten years" is their problem right there. Other studies over longer periods show that the depth and/or vapidity of pop is a kind of cycle corresponding to economic prosperity or hardship of the time. When times are tough, people prefer simple escape. When times are good, people like things they can contemplate, things they can chew on a bit more.
This study span of a mere ten years leading up to 2015 basically just tells us what we already know - when times go from prosperous to tough, that change is reflected in pop music.
posted by anonymisc at 2:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
This study span of a mere ten years leading up to 2015 basically just tells us what we already know - when times go from prosperous to tough, that change is reflected in pop music.
posted by anonymisc at 2:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I can write a Hit Pop Song right now, but it's the same one I could have written you twenty years ago, so I'd be hard pressed to excoriate modern pop.
Tumpty-tumty-you,
Doody-doody-do,
Something-something-too,
[Girl/Boy] you know it's true.
posted by comealongpole at 2:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tumpty-tumty-you,
Doody-doody-do,
Something-something-too,
[Girl/Boy] you know it's true.
posted by comealongpole at 2:59 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
A lot of the music I listen to has lyrics that are hard to make out. Some of it is in languages I don't even understand. For all I know the songs could be about fixed asset depreciation. What does this say about me and my apparent education level?
posted by chrominance at 3:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by chrominance at 3:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [7 favorites]
Obligatory Dylan Moran:
Then this song came on—I will never forget it—it was called "The Funk Soul Brother." And I will always remember that because it was also all of the lyrics... and, er, it was that school of songwriting, you know, very easy on the words in case they get wasted, I don't know what, there's a shortage, and... it sounded like a million fire engines chasing ten million ambulances through a war zone and was played at a volume that made the empty chair beside me bleed. And it went, erm, "Funk soul brother... right about now... yeah... it's the, it's the funk soul brother... check it out. It's, er, well... it's the funk soul brother, essentially. He's, er, he's coming. He's coming at you. It's the... well... it's the funk soul brother." And after a while, I began to penetrate the meaning of this song, you know? I gathered that somebody was about to arrive, and everybody else was terribly excited - maybe he was bringing cake, or something, they didn't say - but the thing was, you see, he wasn't there yet. Ha ha, that was the hook! And I'm not saying it's a bad song, you know, or anything like that. All I'm saying is that if you get, I don't know, a broom, say, and dip it in some brake fluid, put the other end up my arse, stick me on a trampoline in a moving lift, and I would write a better song on the walls. That's all I'm saying.
posted by verstegan at 3:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
Then this song came on—I will never forget it—it was called "The Funk Soul Brother." And I will always remember that because it was also all of the lyrics... and, er, it was that school of songwriting, you know, very easy on the words in case they get wasted, I don't know what, there's a shortage, and... it sounded like a million fire engines chasing ten million ambulances through a war zone and was played at a volume that made the empty chair beside me bleed. And it went, erm, "Funk soul brother... right about now... yeah... it's the, it's the funk soul brother... check it out. It's, er, well... it's the funk soul brother, essentially. He's, er, he's coming. He's coming at you. It's the... well... it's the funk soul brother." And after a while, I began to penetrate the meaning of this song, you know? I gathered that somebody was about to arrive, and everybody else was terribly excited - maybe he was bringing cake, or something, they didn't say - but the thing was, you see, he wasn't there yet. Ha ha, that was the hook! And I'm not saying it's a bad song, you know, or anything like that. All I'm saying is that if you get, I don't know, a broom, say, and dip it in some brake fluid, put the other end up my arse, stick me on a trampoline in a moving lift, and I would write a better song on the walls. That's all I'm saying.
posted by verstegan at 3:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [10 favorites]
oh great I made the mistake of looking up what was topping the charts 10 years ago
NO NO NO NO
DON'T PHUNK WITH MY HEART
(in a nice bit of synergy, "American Idiot" is also just a little past the 10-year-old mark.)
posted by kagredon at 3:06 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
NO NO NO NO
DON'T PHUNK WITH MY HEART
(in a nice bit of synergy, "American Idiot" is also just a little past the 10-year-old mark.)
posted by kagredon at 3:06 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
When I look up to the skies
I see your eyes a funny kind of yellow
I rush home to bed I soak my head
I see your face underneath my pillow
I wake next morning tired still yawning
See your face come peeking through my window
Pictures of matchstick men and you
Mirages of matchstick men and you
All I ever see is them and you
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I see your eyes a funny kind of yellow
I rush home to bed I soak my head
I see your face underneath my pillow
I wake next morning tired still yawning
See your face come peeking through my window
Pictures of matchstick men and you
Mirages of matchstick men and you
All I ever see is them and you
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 3:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm still laying awake at night wondering who put the bomp in the bomp bah bomp bah bomp.
posted by dr_dank at 3:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 3:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I heard the new smash hit outta San Fran the other night, it was pretty ace. It's called Farty Bum. It goes:
"Farty farty bum
My bum is full of farts
I fart them in the tram
I fart them in the BART
Farty farty bum
My farts are just for you
I fart them all day long
I fart until I poo"
It gets better but you gotta subscribe to Tidal to hear it, otherwise the RIAA will sue me.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:10 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
"Farty farty bum
My bum is full of farts
I fart them in the tram
I fart them in the BART
Farty farty bum
My farts are just for you
I fart them all day long
I fart until I poo"
It gets better but you gotta subscribe to Tidal to hear it, otherwise the RIAA will sue me.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:10 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
People who think all great music has already been written don't know contemporary pop and hip hop and indie. Period.
posted by persona au gratin at 3:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 3:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
For all I know the songs could be about fixed asset depreciation.
baby, you've got to boogie
you got to boogie before it's too late
baby, it's time to boogie
before those fixed assets depreciate
posted by pyramid termite at 3:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [11 favorites]
baby, you've got to boogie
you got to boogie before it's too late
baby, it's time to boogie
before those fixed assets depreciate
posted by pyramid termite at 3:14 PM on May 25, 2015 [11 favorites]
And I'll put Ke$ha or Katy Perry up against stuff like "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" any day. There is great and bad pop stuff today. This has been so since the 1950s, and will be so for a long time.
posted by persona au gratin at 3:18 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by persona au gratin at 3:18 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
precocious high school freshman
Clicking on some random headlines, that site sure reads like some 15 year old trying to run their own mashup of various sites from the more braindead parts of the American online left. All the usual anti/indy-stuff, with a sprinkling of raving anti-americanism, pro-russian propaganda, hysterical anti-vax drivel and conspiracy stuff (MH15, GMO, etc), but with that feeling that someone is trying to emulate the real thing (bylines, editorial voice, etc) without quite understanding how real media works.
posted by effbot at 3:21 PM on May 25, 2015
Clicking on some random headlines, that site sure reads like some 15 year old trying to run their own mashup of various sites from the more braindead parts of the American online left. All the usual anti/indy-stuff, with a sprinkling of raving anti-americanism, pro-russian propaganda, hysterical anti-vax drivel and conspiracy stuff (MH15, GMO, etc), but with that feeling that someone is trying to emulate the real thing (bylines, editorial voice, etc) without quite understanding how real media works.
posted by effbot at 3:21 PM on May 25, 2015
Eh, pop music in English is designed to be consumed by people who hardly speak English. That its lyrics trend toward mewling simplicity is to be expected.
(Did you know that Lord Beginner wrote a song about currency devaluation? Sir Stafford Cripps he did explain/ that the pound will climb back again. Truly calypso music is the most cerebral of all genres.)
posted by Thing at 3:22 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
(Did you know that Lord Beginner wrote a song about currency devaluation? Sir Stafford Cripps he did explain/ that the pound will climb back again. Truly calypso music is the most cerebral of all genres.)
posted by Thing at 3:22 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
And the only cure is more cowbell?
I really do need more cowbell. Baby, bring me more cowbell, please?
posted by octobersurprise at 3:23 PM on May 25, 2015
I really do need more cowbell. Baby, bring me more cowbell, please?
posted by octobersurprise at 3:23 PM on May 25, 2015
And I'll put Ke$ha or Katy Perry up against stuff like "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy" any day.
oh, i didn't know ke$ha or katy perry had keith richards licks in their songs - that guitar on the chorus is awfully close to the chorus of midnight rambler
posted by pyramid termite at 3:23 PM on May 25, 2015
oh, i didn't know ke$ha or katy perry had keith richards licks in their songs - that guitar on the chorus is awfully close to the chorus of midnight rambler
posted by pyramid termite at 3:23 PM on May 25, 2015
There's a lot wrong with this article, but I feel like one of the best counter arguments against it is the fact that Kendrick Lamar is insanely popular. Like, To Pimp A Butterfly debuted at #1 and is arguably the most talked about album this year thus far, and good kid, M.A.A.D. city --which listened from beginning to end is a beautiful piece of storytelling about rising up from darkness, confronting your demons, etc -- debuted at #2 a couple years back. Like, Kendrick Lamar is insanely popular and he's brilliant.
Plus it's stupid to use pop music lyrics as a marker of overall intelligence, and compounding that, it's stupid to use some bizarre "reading level" estimation to judge the quality of lyrics.
posted by Gymnopedist at 3:24 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Plus it's stupid to use pop music lyrics as a marker of overall intelligence, and compounding that, it's stupid to use some bizarre "reading level" estimation to judge the quality of lyrics.
posted by Gymnopedist at 3:24 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
honestly, whether or not you like Kanye or his music, putting him in your header illustration for your "pop music is too simple and dumb" article is a great way to undercut your credibility before you even say a word.
posted by kagredon at 3:27 PM on May 25, 2015 [33 favorites]
posted by kagredon at 3:27 PM on May 25, 2015 [33 favorites]
baby, it's time to boogie
before those fixed assets depreciate
Isn't this basically
"then worms shall try
That long preserved virginity,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust"
only using an accounting metaphor? Slightly less lyrical, but the same idea.
In terms of songs about the economy:
Actually, Big Boi observed - in a verse that I don't like much in an otherwise excellent song - that we are going to get back up "like the Dow Jones or the NASDAQ". Sort of, he carries on to opine, like a thong in an ass crack.
The Art Bears have quite a few songs about economics, sort of. "The Song of Investment Capital Overseas" and "The Song of the Dignity of Labor Under Capital"...but they're more about the feel of the thing, if you get me.
I like smart music, of course, but I'm not always quite smart enough to be confident which is the smart music and which is the dumb music.
posted by Frowner at 3:28 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
before those fixed assets depreciate
Isn't this basically
"then worms shall try
That long preserved virginity,
And your quaint honour turn to dust,
And into ashes all my lust"
only using an accounting metaphor? Slightly less lyrical, but the same idea.
In terms of songs about the economy:
Actually, Big Boi observed - in a verse that I don't like much in an otherwise excellent song - that we are going to get back up "like the Dow Jones or the NASDAQ". Sort of, he carries on to opine, like a thong in an ass crack.
The Art Bears have quite a few songs about economics, sort of. "The Song of Investment Capital Overseas" and "The Song of the Dignity of Labor Under Capital"...but they're more about the feel of the thing, if you get me.
I like smart music, of course, but I'm not always quite smart enough to be confident which is the smart music and which is the dumb music.
posted by Frowner at 3:28 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
MetaFilter: portents of systemic dysfunction
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:32 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 3:32 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Like, Kendrick Lamar is insanely popular and he's brilliant.
Yeah, and ditto a guy like Lil Wayne, his almost polar opposite, whose deceptively simple rhymes I imagine rank rather low algorithmically despite being densely packed with inventive vocabulary, wordplay, and more creative ass metaphors than you can shake a stick at.
posted by Lorin at 3:32 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, and ditto a guy like Lil Wayne, his almost polar opposite, whose deceptively simple rhymes I imagine rank rather low algorithmically despite being densely packed with inventive vocabulary, wordplay, and more creative ass metaphors than you can shake a stick at.
posted by Lorin at 3:32 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
Tumpty-tumty-you,
Doody-doody-do,
Something-something-too,
[Girl/Boy] you know it's true.
Love, love me do
You know I love you
I'll always be true
So please, love me do
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:33 PM on May 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
Doody-doody-do,
Something-something-too,
[Girl/Boy] you know it's true.
Love, love me do
You know I love you
I'll always be true
So please, love me do
posted by dephlogisticated at 3:33 PM on May 25, 2015 [9 favorites]
For a website called the "antimedia" it sure is loaded down with advertisements (on mobile). It undercuts their message just a bit when every two paragraphs there's an advertisement telling you what 5 foods doctors hate.
posted by Pyry at 3:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Pyry at 3:34 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I take solace in knowing that Eminem's Rap God earns a readability grade level equivalent of 28.2nd grade ("scores over 22 should generally be taken to mean graduate level text"), while the linked article earns a score of only 12.7.
posted by drlith at 3:37 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by drlith at 3:37 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
there's simply no comparing today's illiterate lyrics to the sublime poetry of the big band era
Down in the meadow in a little bitty pool
Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too
"Swim" said the mama fishie, "Swim if you can"
And they swam and they swam all over the dam
Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu!
Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu!
Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu!
And they swam and they swam all over the dam
posted by pyramid termite at 3:38 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Down in the meadow in a little bitty pool
Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too
"Swim" said the mama fishie, "Swim if you can"
And they swam and they swam all over the dam
Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu!
Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu!
Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu!
And they swam and they swam all over the dam
posted by pyramid termite at 3:38 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
honestly, whether or not you like Kanye or his music, putting him in your header illustration for your "pop music is too simple and dumb" article is a great way to undercut your credibility before you even say a word.
I'm convinced that pretty much anyone with a vehement hate for Kanye West has never actually listened to his music.
Yeah, and ditto a guy like Lil Wayne, his almost polar opposite, whose deceptively simple rhymes I imagine rank rather low algorithmically despite being densely packed with inventive vocabulary, wordplay, and more creative ass metaphors than you can shake a stick at.
my favorite:
"Safe sex is great sex, better wear a latex
Cause you don't want that late text, that 'I think I'm late' text"
posted by Gymnopedist at 3:40 PM on May 25, 2015 [22 favorites]
I'm convinced that pretty much anyone with a vehement hate for Kanye West has never actually listened to his music.
Yeah, and ditto a guy like Lil Wayne, his almost polar opposite, whose deceptively simple rhymes I imagine rank rather low algorithmically despite being densely packed with inventive vocabulary, wordplay, and more creative ass metaphors than you can shake a stick at.
my favorite:
"Safe sex is great sex, better wear a latex
Cause you don't want that late text, that 'I think I'm late' text"
posted by Gymnopedist at 3:40 PM on May 25, 2015 [22 favorites]
Honorable mention re: Lil Wayne being clever:
Bitch, real G's move in silence like lasagna
posted by Gymnopedist at 3:42 PM on May 25, 2015 [14 favorites]
Bitch, real G's move in silence like lasagna
posted by Gymnopedist at 3:42 PM on May 25, 2015 [14 favorites]
Ok, I'll put on my expert hat and say that my completely useless doctoral thesis involved massive number crunching on a corpus of Computer-Mediated Communication to explore a method of interpretation that was completely useless for what I was trying to do. (I don't feel so bad about it since Pamela Gay had exactly the same problem with her doctoral thesis.) So I have the magic letters "PhD" behind my name that enables me to say that tracking trends in word length without looking at context is complete and utter bullshit.
Now, the point about media consolidation is pretty critical, but the article is barely about that.
And looking back a bit, the bit about The Rockefeller Skank is completely missing the point of that song. Not that I think The Rockefeller Skank is the best example of that particular genre of vocal sampling, but the lyrics might as well be delivered in German or Farsi for all that it matters.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:43 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
Now, the point about media consolidation is pretty critical, but the article is barely about that.
And looking back a bit, the bit about The Rockefeller Skank is completely missing the point of that song. Not that I think The Rockefeller Skank is the best example of that particular genre of vocal sampling, but the lyrics might as well be delivered in German or Farsi for all that it matters.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:43 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
At least today's lyrics mostly rhyme. Forty years later, and "Texas" still doesn't rhyme with "facts is", no matter what Steve Miller wants you to believe.
posted by Lokheed at 3:43 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Lokheed at 3:43 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
<>Honorable mention re: Lil Wayne being clever:
I like
Bars all day, no last call
for sheer economy.
posted by Lorin at 3:44 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I like
Bars all day, no last call
for sheer economy.
posted by Lorin at 3:44 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Ow! Ow! Ow! I'm plugged into Big Radio and can't pull the plug. Will somebody hope me?
posted by stirfry at 3:45 PM on May 25, 2015
posted by stirfry at 3:45 PM on May 25, 2015
However, this is important: When just six corporations control 90% of the media, and 80% of radio stations have identical playlists, mindless content isn’t a choice — it’s a virtual mandate.
Commercial radio? Isn't that for people who aren't interested in music as such, but just need some comfort noise to reassure them that they're still in a marketing demographic?
posted by acb at 3:47 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Commercial radio? Isn't that for people who aren't interested in music as such, but just need some comfort noise to reassure them that they're still in a marketing demographic?
posted by acb at 3:47 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
How can we forget when songs had REAL lyrics! Lyrics like:
I said Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na!
I need somebody help me say it one time!
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na!
Wow!
posted by kyrademon at 3:49 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I said Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na!
I need somebody help me say it one time!
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na!
Wow!
posted by kyrademon at 3:49 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
We don't need no education. We don't need no thought control.
We are just another hick in the mall.
signed,
Mairzey Doats
&
Little Lamzy Divey
posted by mule98J at 3:52 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
We are just another hick in the mall.
signed,
Mairzey Doats
&
Little Lamzy Divey
posted by mule98J at 3:52 PM on May 25, 2015 [6 favorites]
I said Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na!
Bee Bappa Lulla
posted by stirfry at 3:52 PM on May 25, 2015
Bee Bappa Lulla
posted by stirfry at 3:52 PM on May 25, 2015
I Feel Love.
And of course, the bird is the word.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:54 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
And of course, the bird is the word.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 3:54 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
A lot of the music I listen to has lyrics that are hard to make out. Some of it is in languages I don't even understand
I only listen to Michael Vetter's Gespräche Ohne Worte.The profundity that those small children bring to the songs they mumble in their entirely made-up languages is heart-breaking.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:54 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I only listen to Michael Vetter's Gespräche Ohne Worte.The profundity that those small children bring to the songs they mumble in their entirely made-up languages is heart-breaking.
posted by octobersurprise at 3:54 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is my surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
posted by Splunge at 3:54 PM on May 25, 2015
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
Surprised face.
posted by Splunge at 3:54 PM on May 25, 2015
For the longest time I never understood what was the big deal about early Beatles. Then, this weekend, I ate at a restaurant that happened to play nothing but pre-Beatles White People Music ("Rubber Ball"! "Cradle of Love"! The remarkably racist "Fujiyama Mama"!) and realized that the Beatles were a big deal when they first hit the scene for basically all of the same reasons I wanted to hang myself
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:56 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:56 PM on May 25, 2015 [8 favorites]
The Billboard #1 song in March through May of 1953 was "How much is that doggie in the window."
posted by CaseyB at 4:00 PM on May 25, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by CaseyB at 4:00 PM on May 25, 2015 [12 favorites]
For a while there, my daughter was listening to that one that goes, "You li'l stupid-ass bitch, I ain't fuckin' witCHOO." Truly a Sounds Of Silence for our time.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:02 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 4:02 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm a blushing bud of innocence
Papa says at big expense
Old maids say I have no sense
Boys declare I'm just immense
Before my song I do conclude
I want it strictly understood
Though fond of fun, I'm never rude
Though not too bad, I'm not too good
Ta-ra-ra boom-de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Papa says at big expense
Old maids say I have no sense
Boys declare I'm just immense
Before my song I do conclude
I want it strictly understood
Though fond of fun, I'm never rude
Though not too bad, I'm not too good
Ta-ra-ra boom-de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
Ta-ra-ra boom de-ay!
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:03 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
You want an education through music? Listen to classical music.
And, boy howdy, what an education!
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:03 PM on May 25, 2015
And, boy howdy, what an education!
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:03 PM on May 25, 2015
No, the listeners are obtuse. The lyrics are simpleminded.
Abstruse.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:03 PM on May 25, 2015
Abstruse.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:03 PM on May 25, 2015
"A little sadder, a little madder, someone get me a ladder".
posted by parki at 4:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by parki at 4:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
A wop bom a loo bop
A lop bam boom
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
A wop bom a loo bop
A lop bam boom
posted by Sys Rq at 4:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
A lop bam boom
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
Tutti frutti ol rooty
A wop bom a loo bop
A lop bam boom
posted by Sys Rq at 4:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
And, boy howdy, what an education!
posted by Rangi at 4:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
One view held by scholars deals with the scatology by seeking an understanding of the role of it in Mozart's family, his society and his times, while another view holds that such humor was the result of an "impressive list" of psychiatric conditions from which Mozart is claimed to have suffered.Or, you know, because jokes about shit (South Park link) have always been funny? No need to overthink this.
posted by Rangi at 4:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's patently absurd, and it gets trotted out because people feel out of touch with today's music trends.
Agree with you. We evolve when we can simplify. Evolution itself is all about simplification. So music got simpler along the way -- that is not necessarily a bad thing.
And for the record, my fortysomething self loves modern tunes as much as the ones I danced to as a teen -- and those that came out before I was born. They were created by some very talented, creative, and brave people! Please appreciate them because music is meant to be enjoyed!
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 4:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Agree with you. We evolve when we can simplify. Evolution itself is all about simplification. So music got simpler along the way -- that is not necessarily a bad thing.
And for the record, my fortysomething self loves modern tunes as much as the ones I danced to as a teen -- and those that came out before I was born. They were created by some very talented, creative, and brave people! Please appreciate them because music is meant to be enjoyed!
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 4:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ctrl-f "Adorno"
Nothing? Come on! You can't have a "you people who like pop music are all big babies because reasons" argument without Adorno. He's the king of the genre.
posted by threecheesetrees at 4:23 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
Nothing? Come on! You can't have a "you people who like pop music are all big babies because reasons" argument without Adorno. He's the king of the genre.
posted by threecheesetrees at 4:23 PM on May 25, 2015 [13 favorites]
If Claire Bernish is saying that pop music lyrics are getting worse over time, she obviously didn't grow up in the early 1970s like I did.
Also: Ms. Bernish needs to realize that the bird is the word.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 4:36 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also: Ms. Bernish needs to realize that the bird is the word.
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 4:36 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
This is bullshit. I love Bob Dylan and hyper-verbal songwriters like Craig Finn and John Darnielle. But the best lyrics are still the simple ones that you can scroll on your notebooks, tattoo on your arms and post on tumblr. "I wanna be your boyfriend". "I'm a nightmare dressed as a daydream". "I'm gonna make it though this year if it kills me".
I used to be the worst kind of rockist. Now I skim r/lewronggeneration and wonder at kids lack of perspective.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:39 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I used to be the worst kind of rockist. Now I skim r/lewronggeneration and wonder at kids lack of perspective.
posted by Charlemagne In Sweatpants at 4:39 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Mares eat oats.
posted by maxsparber at 4:39 PM on May 25, 2015
posted by maxsparber at 4:39 PM on May 25, 2015
*blink* This is the word that the author wants to use to convince us that current music is poorly written?
Obtuse:
a : lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : insensitive, stupid
b : difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression
Any editor with half a brain should have circled that word and said, "You should pick a different word there, considering that word can also mean the exact opposite of what you want to say.
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:45 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Obtuse:
a : lacking sharpness or quickness of sensibility or intellect : insensitive, stupid
b : difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought or expression
Any editor with half a brain should have circled that word and said, "You should pick a different word there, considering that word can also mean the exact opposite of what you want to say.
posted by chainsofreedom at 4:45 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Give Anthony Kiedis an eightball of coke, a rhyming dictionary and a blank composition book if you want some mind rendingly smart music for smart people. He probably gets at least 2 grade levels alone for rhyming California with California.
Heh
Cut Kiedis some slack, he did have that prophetic dream about David Duchovny getting a new TV show.
BELAY THAT REMARK, ENSIGN, DO NOT CUT KIEDIS ANY SLACK
posted by clockzero at 4:48 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Heh
Cut Kiedis some slack, he did have that prophetic dream about David Duchovny getting a new TV show.
BELAY THAT REMARK, ENSIGN, DO NOT CUT KIEDIS ANY SLACK
posted by clockzero at 4:48 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
I listen to Nicki Minaj, Kesha, and the "Aggressive Dubstep" channel on Songza while working on my dissertation. Don't tell the university. They might realize they made an error admitting me to a graduate program.
posted by erlking at 4:51 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by erlking at 4:51 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
Obligatory Dylan Moran
Dylan Moran and David Mitchell both kind of exercise this same schtick, don't they? "I'm middle aged and pretty well off and don't understand the world today, things were much better back when." Unsurprising he can't appreciate the glory of Funk Soul Brother.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:52 PM on May 25, 2015
Dylan Moran and David Mitchell both kind of exercise this same schtick, don't they? "I'm middle aged and pretty well off and don't understand the world today, things were much better back when." Unsurprising he can't appreciate the glory of Funk Soul Brother.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:52 PM on May 25, 2015
Not to derail but Dylan Moran in Black Books is the canonical Dylan Moran and anything outside of that is just slurred rambling that is actually kind of sad to watch. David Mitchell at least remains clear and articulate in his outrage and a lot of his bits are dissecting the inherent stupidity of a thing, rather than just stating that he is confused by them.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:57 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:57 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Lyric Intelligence. Jesus fuck we need the onion.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:02 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by clvrmnky at 5:02 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
There is a dearth in music options over the airwaves,so when vacuous lyrics are foisted on listeners, they become captives under duress.
Sigh. The hyperbole, it burns.
posted by frumiousb at 5:04 PM on May 25, 2015
Sigh. The hyperbole, it burns.
posted by frumiousb at 5:04 PM on May 25, 2015
If the link wasn't here, I would have assumed it *was* some kind of Onion side project.
posted by frumiousb at 5:04 PM on May 25, 2015
posted by frumiousb at 5:04 PM on May 25, 2015
Obligatory Queen yt
Funny, yes. Freddie Mercury also wrote what I think are some of the best simple pop-song lyrics ever:
play the game, fall in love, play the game...
When you think about it, it's actually rather profound in a way...
posted by ovvl at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015
Funny, yes. Freddie Mercury also wrote what I think are some of the best simple pop-song lyrics ever:
play the game, fall in love, play the game...
When you think about it, it's actually rather profound in a way...
posted by ovvl at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015
One song, and only one, has ever approached perfection at both ends of the lyrical spectrum. Where's me jumper?
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Is this the thread where we post Aesop Rock lyrics and laugh at people who dismiss all post-Beatles music with an airy, simplistic fatalism?
posted by fifthrider at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by fifthrider at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I want to know who this "May" girl is, why every song is about her, and why her name turns up every time you expect to hear the word "me."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:07 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Pop music today is not "simpler" there are shitloads of effects and samples and engineering that go into your average hit pop song. You can think that's bad but it's not simple. And much of it is really impressive, in terms of craft.
I would argue that even banal lyrics that are catchy are way harder to write than anyone thinks.
posted by emjaybee at 5:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I would argue that even banal lyrics that are catchy are way harder to write than anyone thinks.
posted by emjaybee at 5:11 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
it took me years to write simple lyrics well
posted by pyramid termite at 5:12 PM on May 25, 2015
posted by pyramid termite at 5:12 PM on May 25, 2015
it took me years to write simple lyrics well
Like we can't tell where you stole the first six words of that comment from.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:15 PM on May 25, 2015
Like we can't tell where you stole the first six words of that comment from.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:15 PM on May 25, 2015
Speaking of Queen, I will always love the metaphors-in-a-blender of Don't Stop Me Now.
I'm a shooting star leaping through the skies
Like a tiger defying the laws of gravity
I'm a racing car passing by like Lady Godiva
posted by biddeford at 5:25 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm a shooting star leaping through the skies
Like a tiger defying the laws of gravity
I'm a racing car passing by like Lady Godiva
posted by biddeford at 5:25 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
One song, and only one, has ever approached perfection ...
For a moment there I thought you were talking about "Gordon Is A Moron."
posted by octobersurprise at 5:36 PM on May 25, 2015
For a moment there I thought you were talking about "Gordon Is A Moron."
posted by octobersurprise at 5:36 PM on May 25, 2015
This is silly. First, a good tune with stupid lyrics is infinitely preferable to a rubbish one with clever lyrics. Music is for the ears. Secondly, if you want to know what's driving trends in pop music, wouldn't it be natural to start by asking people in the industry? I was reading this article in The Atlantic yesterday, which pretty clearly explained that mass market music has become a data-driven industry over the last few years:
posted by topynate at 5:46 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Shazam searches are just one of several new types of data guiding the pop-music business... In fact, all of our searching, streaming, downloading, and sharing is being used to answer the question the music industry has been asking for a century: What do people want to hear next?Tl,dr: turns out that people tend to prefer familiar music, so if you respond to feedback from Shazam searches, youtube plays, etc. you end up promoting music that sounds quite samey.
It’s a question that label executives once answered largely by trusting their gut. But data about our preferences have shifted the balance of power, replacing experts’ instincts with the wisdom of the crowd...
posted by topynate at 5:46 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
I listen to Nicki Minaj, Kesha, and the "Aggressive Dubstep" channel on Songza while working on my dissertation. Don't tell the university. They might realize they made an error admitting me to a graduate program.
The only way they'd think that is if you're somehow getting a living wage out of the deal, I suspect
posted by clockzero at 5:56 PM on May 25, 2015
The only way they'd think that is if you're somehow getting a living wage out of the deal, I suspect
posted by clockzero at 5:56 PM on May 25, 2015
All the kids wanna sniff some glue. All the kids want something to do.
posted by not_on_display at 6:02 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by not_on_display at 6:02 PM on May 25, 2015 [5 favorites]
mass market music has become a data-driven industry over the last few years
yes, radio went that route years ago - the result? - listernership went down
now, they're doing it with music and sales are down
what do people want to hear next only seems like the right question
the real question is what new thing can you convince people they want to hear, even though they don't know it yet?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:12 PM on May 25, 2015
yes, radio went that route years ago - the result? - listernership went down
now, they're doing it with music and sales are down
what do people want to hear next only seems like the right question
the real question is what new thing can you convince people they want to hear, even though they don't know it yet?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:12 PM on May 25, 2015
Is this the thread where we post Aesop Rock lyrics
good old Aesop Rock lyrics
posted by Hoopo at 6:17 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
good old Aesop Rock lyrics
posted by Hoopo at 6:17 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
This hits two of the three great universal shibboleths for meaningless self-righteous arrogance: vocabulary, food and music.
posted by idiopath at 6:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 6:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
People listen to the lyrics of pop songs? People have ever listened to them? "Let's twist again/Like we did last summer." Seriously. "Oh, she was just seventeen/You know what I mean."
Heck, the kids get their music from YouTube, the older kids get it from Spotify and Bandcamp, and lately I've been getting all my music from the weather on "Welcome to Night Vale" with the occasional Soundhound listen to commercials that use interesting music.
posted by Peach at 6:25 PM on May 25, 2015
Heck, the kids get their music from YouTube, the older kids get it from Spotify and Bandcamp, and lately I've been getting all my music from the weather on "Welcome to Night Vale" with the occasional Soundhound listen to commercials that use interesting music.
posted by Peach at 6:25 PM on May 25, 2015
One song, and only one, has ever approached perfection ...
Those aren't the words to The Diarrhea Song at all.
Of COURSE there is a web page devoted to the words to The Diarrhea Song. God bless you, intarwebs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:33 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Those aren't the words to The Diarrhea Song at all.
Of COURSE there is a web page devoted to the words to The Diarrhea Song. God bless you, intarwebs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:33 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
New day rising.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 7:18 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by BitterOldPunk at 7:18 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
So I've been on a road trip the past couple days. And I have my ipod playing on a playlist I call metromix. It consists of top 40 from the past 25 years or so, mostly the latter part of them years. I couldn't help but think of Pachelbel's Canon throughout a bunch of them...
Don't know what to say beyond that
posted by JoeXIII007 at 7:20 PM on May 25, 2015
Don't know what to say beyond that
posted by JoeXIII007 at 7:20 PM on May 25, 2015
In the Age of Enlightenment they had proper and intellectual pop songs that were oh, I can't even begin to pretend. Here, this is what the English were singing about the Americans, and then the Americans were singing about themselves in 1777:
Yankee Doodle Went to Town
Riding upon a pony
Put a feather in his hat
And called it macaroni!
Yankee Doodle keep it up!
Yankee Doodle Dandy!
Mind the rhythm and the step
And with the girls be handy!
Left Shark would dance the hell out of that.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:42 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yankee Doodle Went to Town
Riding upon a pony
Put a feather in his hat
And called it macaroni!
Yankee Doodle keep it up!
Yankee Doodle Dandy!
Mind the rhythm and the step
And with the girls be handy!
Left Shark would dance the hell out of that.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:42 PM on May 25, 2015 [2 favorites]
The syncopation in "Young Nigga Move That Dope" is almost as stimulating to me as my NPR podcasts. This article is horseshit!
posted by todayandtomorrow at 7:56 PM on May 25, 2015
posted by todayandtomorrow at 7:56 PM on May 25, 2015
I've decided that I am okay with the fact that I do not get the music for the young folks these days. Not proud of that, not embarrassed, just okay. I wasn't good at being in tune with the kids when I was one. I wore flannel and listened very hard to Babes in Toyland and Pearl Jam, willing myself to like them better, until one day I stopped bothering. Then I just hung out in my room drawing, listening to show tunes, Oingo Boingo and Weird Al. Nowadays, I pretty much still do. I've added plenty of other artists, but not all of them much more in date, except for TMBG, who are timeless.
It recently came to my attention that I actually had never heard "Wrecking Ball" or "Blurred Lines." I only watched the "Anaconda" video because I heard there was an MST3K reference in it. I am just hopeless in that respect. And that is okay. It is not a sign of moral decay or conspiracy. No one was born in the wrong generation.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
It recently came to my attention that I actually had never heard "Wrecking Ball" or "Blurred Lines." I only watched the "Anaconda" video because I heard there was an MST3K reference in it. I am just hopeless in that respect. And that is okay. It is not a sign of moral decay or conspiracy. No one was born in the wrong generation.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:04 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think one of the main problems with trying to measure lyricism in hip-hop particularly is that it doesn't take into account the massive amounts of intertextuality going on. Many lines will reference another song or simply another thing in particular and therefore can't be accurately judged by the words alone - you've got to look at the relationship between the song and the other thing.
This holds true for most writing (metaphors obviously) but due to hip-hop's particular relationship with both sampling and rapper personalities it comes out particularly strongly.
posted by solarion at 8:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
This holds true for most writing (metaphors obviously) but due to hip-hop's particular relationship with both sampling and rapper personalities it comes out particularly strongly.
posted by solarion at 8:21 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Beyond that, the things that make a song's lyrics creative or vital are not measured in syllables per word or words per sentence. Flesch-Kincaid doesn't measure the creativity of a turn of phrase, the cleverness of word play, or the cadence of a line. If you ignore the rhythm and the substance, what have you measured? Absolutely nothing.
Yeah this was all pretty clear when they gave rap music the lowest rating. How pointless!
posted by easter queen at 8:24 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah this was all pretty clear when they gave rap music the lowest rating. How pointless!
posted by easter queen at 8:24 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wonder how Amon Tobin's "verbal" or Sunship and Warrior Queen's "Almighty Father" stack up.
posted by poe at 8:25 PM on May 25, 2015
posted by poe at 8:25 PM on May 25, 2015
You want an education through music? Listen to classical music. Pop music is meant to be stupid.
posted by Renoroc at 16:59 on May 25
Haha, don't automatically assume classical music to contain deep lyrical content.
posted by sinnesloeschen at 8:30 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Renoroc at 16:59 on May 25
Haha, don't automatically assume classical music to contain deep lyrical content.
posted by sinnesloeschen at 8:30 PM on May 25, 2015 [1 favorite]
And yet, the Wu-Tang Clan compares favorably to Shakespeare and Herman Melville in terms of unique words used.
posted by goatdog at 8:32 PM on May 25, 2015
posted by goatdog at 8:32 PM on May 25, 2015
Thou shalt not make repetitive generic music.
posted by progosk at 11:56 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by progosk at 11:56 PM on May 25, 2015 [3 favorites]
While it's true that you can say a lot using just Simple English, it requires talent and/or a lot of effort to do so without sounding ridiculous. So I think that the average reading level requirement for a body of writing can indicate the average complexity level of ideas it discusses. That would suggest that either the lyrics are getting dumber or their authors are getting better and better at their craft. You choose which one is more likely.
posted by hat_eater at 4:37 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by hat_eater at 4:37 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
How appropriate. I was at the Centre Pompidou yesterday, and one of the art installations was letters cut out of mirrors glued onto steel bars.
THE MUSIC
VERSE
VERSE
VERSE
VERSE
REPEAT
THE END
posted by fraula at 5:18 AM on May 26, 2015
THE MUSIC
VERSE
VERSE
VERSE
VERSE
REPEAT
THE END
posted by fraula at 5:18 AM on May 26, 2015
If you knew Peggy Sue
Then you'd know why I feel blue
About Peggy, 'bout Peggy Sue
Oh well, I love you, gal
Yes, I love you Peggy Sue
Peggy Sue, Peggy Sue
Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, Peggy Sue
Oh, my Peggy, my Peggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
And I need you, Peggy Sue
I love you Peggy Sue
With a love so rare and true
Oh, Peggy, my Peggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
Yes, I want you, Peggy Sue
Peggy Sue, Peggy Sue
Oh how my heart years for you
Oh, Pa-he-ggy, my Pa-he-ggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
And I need you, Peggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
Yes, I want you, Peggy Sue
I miss the old days of profound intellectual stimulation.
posted by crazylegs at 5:19 AM on May 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Then you'd know why I feel blue
About Peggy, 'bout Peggy Sue
Oh well, I love you, gal
Yes, I love you Peggy Sue
Peggy Sue, Peggy Sue
Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, Peggy Sue
Oh, my Peggy, my Peggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
And I need you, Peggy Sue
I love you Peggy Sue
With a love so rare and true
Oh, Peggy, my Peggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
Yes, I want you, Peggy Sue
Peggy Sue, Peggy Sue
Oh how my heart years for you
Oh, Pa-he-ggy, my Pa-he-ggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
And I need you, Peggy Sue
Oh, well, I love you gal
Yes, I want you, Peggy Sue
I miss the old days of profound intellectual stimulation.
posted by crazylegs at 5:19 AM on May 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
...while wading deeply into the ludicrous was Three Days Grace’s “The Good Life”, at a level equivalent to 0.8 — begging the question, did they have to try to craft lyrics a kindergartner could easily read?(emphasis mine)
The first rule of making fun of other people's diction is: don't misuse rhetorical devices when you're making fun of other people's diction.
The author of aptly titled Idiot America, journalist Charles Pierce, thoroughly summed up the issue this way:The second rule of making fun of other people's diction is: do not invoke Charles Pierce's name to make it sound like his book shares your thesis, for he is easily angered and will show you a thing or two about making fun of other people's diction.
posted by Mayor West at 5:43 AM on May 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
People listen to the lyrics of pop songs? People have ever listened to them?
Whoever picked the bell's-about-to-go music that came blasting out of the PA system at the end of my local primary school's lunch break the other day would certainly seem not to have done so.
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 AM on May 26, 2015
Whoever picked the bell's-about-to-go music that came blasting out of the PA system at the end of my local primary school's lunch break the other day would certainly seem not to have done so.
posted by flabdablet at 5:46 AM on May 26, 2015
I'm waiting for all the anti-radio snobs to start saying "well of anyone on the radio, I guess I'll listen to Mariah Carey, since she has the ~smartest lyrics~."
Somehow I doubt it.
It's almost as if anyone who has achieved some level of mainstream success will have something to be mocked for.
posted by nakedmolerats at 6:04 AM on May 26, 2015
Somehow I doubt it.
It's almost as if anyone who has achieved some level of mainstream success will have something to be mocked for.
posted by nakedmolerats at 6:04 AM on May 26, 2015
This is one of the dumbest articles I've ever read. I must have missed the part where the author proves a relationship between simplicity of phrase and corporate control of media, or shows that complexity and quality have a direct relationship, or makes a case for an objective "goodness" in art. If you're going to quote studies and try to draw conclusions, a basic logic class and a couple of science courses wouldn't hurt. The most hurtful thing I can thing of to say here is that this is the sort of reasoning that is constantly in evidence on Fox news and right wing talk radio.
Also, music is supposed to be enjoyable, not a fucking math test. In other news, the little black dress represents a huge cultural decline since giant fucking pompadours and shoe buckles, and a good grilled cheese sandwich is bullshit compared to sniffing the vapor from a bag filled with lobster-infused dihydrogen monoxide.
posted by freecellwizard at 6:39 AM on May 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
Also, music is supposed to be enjoyable, not a fucking math test. In other news, the little black dress represents a huge cultural decline since giant fucking pompadours and shoe buckles, and a good grilled cheese sandwich is bullshit compared to sniffing the vapor from a bag filled with lobster-infused dihydrogen monoxide.
posted by freecellwizard at 6:39 AM on May 26, 2015 [2 favorites]
I am too busy waving my hands in the air to care.
posted by briank at 6:40 AM on May 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by briank at 6:40 AM on May 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
Maybe Bernish can tell me who put the bomp in the bomp bah bomp bah bomp, who put the ram in the rama lama ding dong, who put the bop in the bop shoo bop shoo bop, and, finally and most importantly, who put the dip in the dip da dip da dip.
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:00 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by MrMoonPie at 7:00 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think that a problem with the linked article is that the author doesn't have a clear fix on what she expects popular music to do and how this relates to the role of popular music through (let's say for the sake of argument) modern Western history.
We can infer from the rest of the website (which has some music articles) that the people associated with this project* want popular music to wake up the sheeple, convey important revolutionary information, etc. (Which makes it bizarre that they are not cheering for hip hop, because of all the popular music out there, hip-hop is most in line with popular ballad traditions, the "reporting" kind of ska and calypso, etc.)
This is a sort of hand-wavey argument because it's not really my field, but:
1. Music that "reports" tends to be from below in a low-information situation, created by people who have very little other access to news. So you see ballads that contain history and news, like the Diggers' Song and the Ballad of Captain Swing and Hanging On The Old Barbed Wire. Or various songs about floods and disasters. My guess is that you see a lot more of these after about 1800 because you have a lot more people moving around, more people living in cities, industrialization, etc.
1.5. We have twitter now. The "reporting" function of popular songs has long since moved away from popular songs.
2. There's a lot of "reporting" songs in quasi-popular music, from sort of public service songs like "Luka" (remember that?) to Gil Scott Heron's extremely newsy hit "Johannesberg". But they serve a really different function - they're anomalies and they are much less about "here is news" than they are about "here is something you knew but didn't pay attention to". This is presumably the type of thing that the Antimedia people support, but they're not really seeing that those songs work precisely because they stand out. If every song is about the evils of Monsanto or the security state, you have a David Rovics album, and that's a bit of an acquired taste. (I like David Rovics, actually.)
3. The songs that are the most "reporting" of songs are hip-hop, for a weird convergence of reasons - the genre itself, the fact that we're allowed to speak a certain amount of truth about race in this country if it's framed as entertainment/romantic-tragedy, the need of Big Music for novelty and the fact that extraordinary talent is recognized in all genres some of the time even fi the content is only partially amenable to capital. (Which is why you have the Clash, for instance - "Something About England" and "Washington Bullets" were produced for a major label.)
4. The Antimedia people might actually want to think about how hip-hop has worked and failed to work in politicizing people - that seems like the best real-world way to create an argument about what popular music should do.
5. They might also consider the Chumbas - there was a band that intentionally attempted to go from being a relatively small radical concern to a large-scale propaganda outfit by engaging with capital, and they basically failed. They produced "Tubthumping", true, but that seems to have been equal parts annoying and absorbed by capital. (What's interesting is that it's absolutely in line with their other politics and not that musically different either; I think it's a really interesting song, much better than it gets credit for being.)
6. TL;DR - popular music does not work and has rarely worked in the way that the Antimedia people want it to work.
7. TL;DR part two: I surmise that the Antimedia people have a particular kind of populist politics that isn't based on a deep understanding of populist movements and therefore they think that if you just get "the truth" out there to "the people", then "the people" will "rise up" and bob's your uncle. And therefore anything not geared toward creating the uprising is a waste of time. My general experience of this kind of person in the flesh is that they're pretty likable and willing to put in a lot of effort (especially in local issues) that other people with more sophisticated politics are too busy/lazy to engage in.
*Which seems pretty loosely run, since I saw a spam article get posted and disappear last week; it looks a bit like Old Indymedia but with fewer people and not much original reporting. Also, honestly, when I see a website where one article is all complaining about the hippety hop not being smart enough and another saying that BlackLivesMatter should really be "prison abolition now" I assume that people have not really thought through their politics around race.
posted by Frowner at 7:11 AM on May 26, 2015 [12 favorites]
We can infer from the rest of the website (which has some music articles) that the people associated with this project* want popular music to wake up the sheeple, convey important revolutionary information, etc. (Which makes it bizarre that they are not cheering for hip hop, because of all the popular music out there, hip-hop is most in line with popular ballad traditions, the "reporting" kind of ska and calypso, etc.)
This is a sort of hand-wavey argument because it's not really my field, but:
1. Music that "reports" tends to be from below in a low-information situation, created by people who have very little other access to news. So you see ballads that contain history and news, like the Diggers' Song and the Ballad of Captain Swing and Hanging On The Old Barbed Wire. Or various songs about floods and disasters. My guess is that you see a lot more of these after about 1800 because you have a lot more people moving around, more people living in cities, industrialization, etc.
1.5. We have twitter now. The "reporting" function of popular songs has long since moved away from popular songs.
2. There's a lot of "reporting" songs in quasi-popular music, from sort of public service songs like "Luka" (remember that?) to Gil Scott Heron's extremely newsy hit "Johannesberg". But they serve a really different function - they're anomalies and they are much less about "here is news" than they are about "here is something you knew but didn't pay attention to". This is presumably the type of thing that the Antimedia people support, but they're not really seeing that those songs work precisely because they stand out. If every song is about the evils of Monsanto or the security state, you have a David Rovics album, and that's a bit of an acquired taste. (I like David Rovics, actually.)
3. The songs that are the most "reporting" of songs are hip-hop, for a weird convergence of reasons - the genre itself, the fact that we're allowed to speak a certain amount of truth about race in this country if it's framed as entertainment/romantic-tragedy, the need of Big Music for novelty and the fact that extraordinary talent is recognized in all genres some of the time even fi the content is only partially amenable to capital. (Which is why you have the Clash, for instance - "Something About England" and "Washington Bullets" were produced for a major label.)
4. The Antimedia people might actually want to think about how hip-hop has worked and failed to work in politicizing people - that seems like the best real-world way to create an argument about what popular music should do.
5. They might also consider the Chumbas - there was a band that intentionally attempted to go from being a relatively small radical concern to a large-scale propaganda outfit by engaging with capital, and they basically failed. They produced "Tubthumping", true, but that seems to have been equal parts annoying and absorbed by capital. (What's interesting is that it's absolutely in line with their other politics and not that musically different either; I think it's a really interesting song, much better than it gets credit for being.)
6. TL;DR - popular music does not work and has rarely worked in the way that the Antimedia people want it to work.
7. TL;DR part two: I surmise that the Antimedia people have a particular kind of populist politics that isn't based on a deep understanding of populist movements and therefore they think that if you just get "the truth" out there to "the people", then "the people" will "rise up" and bob's your uncle. And therefore anything not geared toward creating the uprising is a waste of time. My general experience of this kind of person in the flesh is that they're pretty likable and willing to put in a lot of effort (especially in local issues) that other people with more sophisticated politics are too busy/lazy to engage in.
*Which seems pretty loosely run, since I saw a spam article get posted and disappear last week; it looks a bit like Old Indymedia but with fewer people and not much original reporting. Also, honestly, when I see a website where one article is all complaining about the hippety hop not being smart enough and another saying that BlackLivesMatter should really be "prison abolition now" I assume that people have not really thought through their politics around race.
posted by Frowner at 7:11 AM on May 26, 2015 [12 favorites]
Great comment, Frowner. I was too annoyed by the article to be that eloquent :-)
posted by freecellwizard at 7:20 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by freecellwizard at 7:20 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh I get tears in my ears
from layin' on my back
cryin' on my piller
over yew
....
[instr]
pedal steel & fiddle
Um....okay, that was never popular. It never quite rose to Flyin' Purple People Eater standards. (no offense, Sheb)
I'm just saying.
posted by mule98J at 8:08 AM on May 26, 2015
from layin' on my back
cryin' on my piller
over yew
....
[instr]
pedal steel & fiddle
Um....okay, that was never popular. It never quite rose to Flyin' Purple People Eater standards. (no offense, Sheb)
I'm just saying.
posted by mule98J at 8:08 AM on May 26, 2015
The first dozen times or so I heard Taylor Swift's "Shake It Off" it kind of went in one ear and out the other. But, eventually, it grew on me. It's a really catchy song. And then I paid attention to the lyrics and realized it's a really positive message as well. Seriously, it could be the answer to about one-third of the human relations questions in AskMe (falling just behind DTMFA). And now I love it. Does it have complex lyrics? No. Does it need them? No.
"Unsurprisingly, they found that modern pop is a watered-down version of what John, Paul, George and Ringo used to rock the charts with."
Oh, do they mean lyrics like:
"She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:33 AM on May 26, 2015
"Unsurprisingly, they found that modern pop is a watered-down version of what John, Paul, George and Ringo used to rock the charts with."
Oh, do they mean lyrics like:
"She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:33 AM on May 26, 2015
Presented for your consideration....
Napalm Death. "You Suffer."
The lyrics are "You Suffer." The song's 1.316 seconds long. There's a wiki about it.
posted by Zack_Replica at 9:55 AM on May 26, 2015
Napalm Death. "You Suffer."
The lyrics are "You Suffer." The song's 1.316 seconds long. There's a wiki about it.
posted by Zack_Replica at 9:55 AM on May 26, 2015
There's a lady, that I know, and if I didn't know her, she'd be the lady, I don't know.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:37 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:37 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
"baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby baby"
-Led Zeppelin
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:43 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
-Led Zeppelin
posted by Cookiebastard at 10:43 AM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, sure, but the next 18 minutes of the song are all Hobbit references.
posted by maxsparber at 10:48 AM on May 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 10:48 AM on May 26, 2015 [6 favorites]
Some get a kick from cocaine
I'm sure that if
I took even one sniff
That would bore me terrif
ically, too
Yet, I get a kick out of you
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:25 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm sure that if
I took even one sniff
That would bore me terrif
ically, too
Yet, I get a kick out of you
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:25 PM on May 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Cookiebastard, that’s a really limited view of their œuvre. Led Zeppelin performed more than a few songs which are incredibly well-crafted songs conveying the Black experience of the Jim Crow-era American South with profound and touching emotional depth.
posted by Coda at 1:54 PM on May 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Coda at 1:54 PM on May 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
'Performed' is a great word choice there.
posted by box at 4:56 PM on May 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 4:56 PM on May 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
biddeford, no one actually ever calls Freddie Mercury "Mr. Farenheit" either, come to think of it. And 200 degrees isn't really all that hot. It's not even hot enough to boil water. I'm beginning to suspect whoever wrote that song was just on a lot of cocaine.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:27 PM on May 26, 2015
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:27 PM on May 26, 2015
And 200 degrees isn't really all that hot. It's not even hot enough to boil water.
It is if you're high enough.
I'm beginning to suspect whoever wrote that song was just on a lot of cocaine.
No, the other kind of high.
posted by Sys Rq at 6:31 PM on May 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
It is if you're high enough.
I'm beginning to suspect whoever wrote that song was just on a lot of cocaine.
No, the other kind of high.
posted by Sys Rq at 6:31 PM on May 26, 2015 [4 favorites]
Back when me kid live in cave, Og listen good howling from clan sweet-shouters. Grunts were deep and expressive. Me not even self aware then, just Chinese room try to sell Amway. But then me listen to howling from sweet-shouters, and it make me ponder why them shout that, and me think about them, and me think about me thinking about them, and all sudden me wake up and look around and ME IS.
Long story short: music from when me kid in cave make us sentient beings not just meat robots. What your Mariah Carey do for you?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:00 PM on May 26, 2015
Long story short: music from when me kid in cave make us sentient beings not just meat robots. What your Mariah Carey do for you?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:00 PM on May 26, 2015
I dunno, man, that 'All I Want For Christmas is You' remix with the ODB verse is aight.
posted by box at 7:22 AM on May 27, 2015
posted by box at 7:22 AM on May 27, 2015
You want an education through music? Listen to classical music. Pop music is meant to be stupid.
Education in music is wonderful. Why does it have to be laced with lessons about holding one's nose up to other forms?
People listen to the lyrics of pop songs? People have ever listened to them?
It's fascinating how different people's experiences have been. Throughout high school I remember many people listening to lyrics. Perhaps you didn't go to high school or are in a situation where people are not in a good enough space (no money, being exploited, etc) to have even the opportunity to listen to any music, much less the lyrics that accompany the music, or perhaps high school is in your future. Perhaps you're completely unfamiliar with the history of popular music in various cultures (nothing wrong with that, there are a ton of things I have no idea about either). Perhaps you've never heard or seen people singing at sports games in stadiums or at weddings. I'm curious to understand what sort of environment you grew up in where you can actually ask this question as if it's a big surprise.
I am too busy waving my hands in the air to care.
I plan to make millions coming up with the way to wave one's hands in the air like all you do is care. It's been difficult.
I would be surprised to learn that not a lot of people listen to a broad spectrum of popular music, from "activist" type to "bubblegum" depending on moods for example. The very profound and informative are seldom popular but this is nothing new.
I also agree with others that simple is not necessarily stupid. I loved the poetry of the street in the Wire, particularly the way Prop Joe summoned up situations with a few words and a lot of times pop music does the same:
Take all your fears
Pretend they're all true
Take all your plans
Pretend they fell through
That's what it's like
That's what it's like for most people in this world
Simple and succinct. I understand the objection to corporate control but like many others, the radio is pretty much meaningless to me these days because of it. But then I don't pay attention to a ton of businesses out there that do what they do. I find new and old popular music by others means.
posted by juiceCake at 3:43 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Education in music is wonderful. Why does it have to be laced with lessons about holding one's nose up to other forms?
People listen to the lyrics of pop songs? People have ever listened to them?
It's fascinating how different people's experiences have been. Throughout high school I remember many people listening to lyrics. Perhaps you didn't go to high school or are in a situation where people are not in a good enough space (no money, being exploited, etc) to have even the opportunity to listen to any music, much less the lyrics that accompany the music, or perhaps high school is in your future. Perhaps you're completely unfamiliar with the history of popular music in various cultures (nothing wrong with that, there are a ton of things I have no idea about either). Perhaps you've never heard or seen people singing at sports games in stadiums or at weddings. I'm curious to understand what sort of environment you grew up in where you can actually ask this question as if it's a big surprise.
I am too busy waving my hands in the air to care.
I plan to make millions coming up with the way to wave one's hands in the air like all you do is care. It's been difficult.
I would be surprised to learn that not a lot of people listen to a broad spectrum of popular music, from "activist" type to "bubblegum" depending on moods for example. The very profound and informative are seldom popular but this is nothing new.
I also agree with others that simple is not necessarily stupid. I loved the poetry of the street in the Wire, particularly the way Prop Joe summoned up situations with a few words and a lot of times pop music does the same:
Take all your fears
Pretend they're all true
Take all your plans
Pretend they fell through
That's what it's like
That's what it's like for most people in this world
Simple and succinct. I understand the objection to corporate control but like many others, the radio is pretty much meaningless to me these days because of it. But then I don't pay attention to a ton of businesses out there that do what they do. I find new and old popular music by others means.
posted by juiceCake at 3:43 PM on May 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I plan to make millions coming up with the way to wave one's hands in the air like all you do is care.
extend your middle fingers as you're waving them
don't expect to make a million on it, though
posted by pyramid termite at 4:20 PM on May 27, 2015
extend your middle fingers as you're waving them
don't expect to make a million on it, though
posted by pyramid termite at 4:20 PM on May 27, 2015
'Put your hands in the air, and wave them like you just don't care.' Surely a better display of apathy would be not to bother. —Jimmy Carr
posted by Sys Rq at 8:40 PM on May 27, 2015
posted by Sys Rq at 8:40 PM on May 27, 2015
Cool Papa Bell: "Every generation thinks the generation that comes after it is packed with blithering idiots."
They're right, too.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:38 AM on May 28, 2015
They're right, too.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:38 AM on May 28, 2015
You know, yesterday at work someone did something that, though not their fault, was a fool thing and very frustrating, and I found myself waving my hands in the air to indicate that I did not care about making them feel better. (I mean, I did this alone in the office.) It wasn't much of a dance move, though, so I am now skeptical about the whole thing.
posted by Frowner at 6:42 AM on May 28, 2015
posted by Frowner at 6:42 AM on May 28, 2015
don't expect to make a million on it, though
True. I'm not a financial executive or a politician who seem to collect quite a lot of stash for giving millions the middle finger.
posted by juiceCake at 9:21 AM on May 28, 2015
True. I'm not a financial executive or a politician who seem to collect quite a lot of stash for giving millions the middle finger.
posted by juiceCake at 9:21 AM on May 28, 2015
I plan to make millions coming up with the way to wave one's hands in the air like all you do is care. It's been difficult.
Glide by the people as they stop to look and stare.
If we're going to go to the historical roots of pop music, Memphis Minnie could pack three layers of meaning into a fixed form where the first line of every stanza is repeated.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:41 AM on May 28, 2015
Glide by the people as they stop to look and stare.
If we're going to go to the historical roots of pop music, Memphis Minnie could pack three layers of meaning into a fixed form where the first line of every stanza is repeated.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:41 AM on May 28, 2015
A key sign that this analysis is bullshit is that it applies Flesch-Kincaid to poetry. And since a big part of a Flesch-Kincaid score is based on average sentence length, it's limited to prose.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:53 AM on May 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 10:53 AM on May 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
In fact, written and spoken language are fundamentally different and can't really be compared in this manner. You might be able to make an exception for speech that was originally prepared in written form. But good speechwriting should be structurally different from written prose, so Flesch-Kincaid would still be misleading.
In order to make Flesch-Kincaid work, Powell-Morse admits to inserting punctuation, but does not say how or where. This is another big sign that he doesn't know what he's talking about and could be a source of systemic error.
Which gets back to the theme of this discussion. Is a reduced "sentence" or syllable length a sign of idiocy, or an evolution of poetic structure? Can we really say that "old pond / a frog leaps in / water's sound" (Basho) (translated from 17 on) is less intelligent than "I’m with you in Rockland / where we wake up electrified out of the coma by our own souls’ airplanes roaring over the roof they’ve come to drop angelic bombs the hospital illuminates itself imaginary walls collapse O skinny legions run outside O starry-spangled shock of mercy the eternal war is here O victory forget your underwear we’re free " (Ginsburg).
That's not a question that can be answered by inserting punctuation and pasting the text into a Flesch-Kincaid script. In fact, Flesch-Kincaid doesn't measure intelligence at all, it measures readability. In order to assess the intelligence of poetry, you need to use poetics and not abuse structural linguistics.
(For the record, I've come to understand Ginsburg. I'm not confident that I understand Basho.)
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:31 AM on May 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
In order to make Flesch-Kincaid work, Powell-Morse admits to inserting punctuation, but does not say how or where. This is another big sign that he doesn't know what he's talking about and could be a source of systemic error.
Which gets back to the theme of this discussion. Is a reduced "sentence" or syllable length a sign of idiocy, or an evolution of poetic structure? Can we really say that "old pond / a frog leaps in / water's sound" (Basho) (translated from 17 on) is less intelligent than "I’m with you in Rockland / where we wake up electrified out of the coma by our own souls’ airplanes roaring over the roof they’ve come to drop angelic bombs the hospital illuminates itself imaginary walls collapse O skinny legions run outside O starry-spangled shock of mercy the eternal war is here O victory forget your underwear we’re free " (Ginsburg).
That's not a question that can be answered by inserting punctuation and pasting the text into a Flesch-Kincaid script. In fact, Flesch-Kincaid doesn't measure intelligence at all, it measures readability. In order to assess the intelligence of poetry, you need to use poetics and not abuse structural linguistics.
(For the record, I've come to understand Ginsburg. I'm not confident that I understand Basho.)
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 11:31 AM on May 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
basho is much harder to understand
Spider, say again!
It’s so hard to hear your voice
in the autumn wind.
- translated by Dmitri N. Smirnov
posted by pyramid termite at 4:05 PM on May 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Spider, say again!
It’s so hard to hear your voice
in the autumn wind.
- translated by Dmitri N. Smirnov
posted by pyramid termite at 4:05 PM on May 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
You know how to wave your hands in the air like you care, don't you? Jazz hands!
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:53 PM on May 28, 2015
posted by The Underpants Monster at 6:53 PM on May 28, 2015
I wish I could find the Lore comic that goes:
Wave your hands in the air like you just don't care.
[beat]
You call that indifference?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:39 AM on May 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wave your hands in the air like you just don't care.
[beat]
You call that indifference?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:39 AM on May 29, 2015 [1 favorite]
Anyone who thinks breadth of vocabulary is directly related to sophistication of songwriting needs to spend an afternoon with The Complete Hank Williams box set. That man said more about life, love, and the human condition with a second grade vocabulary than virtually any other songwriter who has ever lived could manage with the entire OED. And if you were to ask the songwriters this author presumably holds in high regard--your Dylans and Cohens and Kings and what have you--they will tell you the very same. Cohen once wrote that Hank Williams was "a million floors above [him] in the tower of song." And I adore Cohen. But it was true.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:43 AM on May 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:43 AM on May 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
A high readability score isn't necessarily good. As Tufte points out, excessively complex and technical writing kills people.
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:58 AM on May 30, 2015
posted by CBrachyrhynchos at 9:58 AM on May 30, 2015
ok but while you've been getting down about the obtuse lyrics and simpleminded listeners of the world you could have been getting down to this sick beat
posted by Legomancer at 6:05 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Legomancer at 6:05 AM on May 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
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posted by bonobothegreat at 1:58 PM on May 25, 2015 [33 favorites]