What A.P.A. stands for
July 11, 2015 6:18 AM Subscribe
An American Psychological Association report highlights how it allowed torture clinicians to operate in its ranks. The 542-page report raises questions about collaboration between A.P.A. psychologists and both the C.I.A. and the Pentagon. According to the report, leaders of the American Psychological Association weakened the association’s ethical guidelines to allow psychologists to take part in coercive interrogation programs after September 11, 2001.
Nobody seems willing to buy the "enhance interrogation" line anymore.
An article I was just reading noted that "enhanced interrogation" is a particularly infelicitous choice of phrasing, given that the Gestapo used the same term. (I think people noted the irony as soon as the phrase became public, but I only just this week read about it.)
But more than that, it is so transparently a euphemism for torture that it fails as a cover up term. If you are going to try to use language to hide your bad behavior, you have to be smarter than that. From what I've read of the APA report, the psychologists involved suffered from the same lack of thought and failed to even consider basic things like their professional code of ethics and that they were being put out in front to be the fall guys when things became public.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:22 AM on July 11, 2015 [25 favorites]
An article I was just reading noted that "enhanced interrogation" is a particularly infelicitous choice of phrasing, given that the Gestapo used the same term. (I think people noted the irony as soon as the phrase became public, but I only just this week read about it.)
But more than that, it is so transparently a euphemism for torture that it fails as a cover up term. If you are going to try to use language to hide your bad behavior, you have to be smarter than that. From what I've read of the APA report, the psychologists involved suffered from the same lack of thought and failed to even consider basic things like their professional code of ethics and that they were being put out in front to be the fall guys when things became public.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:22 AM on July 11, 2015 [25 favorites]
We knew of this quite a while ago, thanks to other NY Times reports, and so the news isn't shocking anymore. Hopefully, the outrage has not abated, and if anything will increase among the APA members with the release of this report. Then maybe the participants and the leaders will at least face some sort of professional sanction, even if the law won't touch them.
posted by haiku warrior at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by haiku warrior at 7:27 AM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
Despite this there are still a lot of good psychologists out there, some of whom have left the APA over this. I know of at least three from my old graduate program who left and joined the American Counseling Association and are identifying primarily as counselors now (they had the option because their Ph.D. was in counseling psych).
posted by Jernau at 7:28 AM on July 11, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by Jernau at 7:28 AM on July 11, 2015 [23 favorites]
@APA uses the term "abusive interrogation techniques". Splitting hairs maybe, but this language still seems to defend torture as an effective interrogation technique.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:36 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:36 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Too little, too late. The APA should be ashamed of itself.
posted by dis_integration at 7:39 AM on July 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 7:39 AM on July 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
If you want to know how we got here, this book is invaluable. The relationship between human rights monitoring in professed democracies and the adoption of "clean" torture techniques in response is mindblowing.
posted by thetortoise at 7:42 AM on July 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by thetortoise at 7:42 AM on July 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
@APA uses the term "abusive interrogation techniques".
Not nearly as effective as "cuddly interrogation techniques" or "tickling interrogation techniques".
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:44 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not nearly as effective as "cuddly interrogation techniques" or "tickling interrogation techniques".
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:44 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Their "enhanced interrogation techniques" didn't even work, and as actual psychologists they had ready access to the materials that would have shown them that. Stupid and evil.
posted by djinn dandy at 7:44 AM on July 11, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by djinn dandy at 7:44 AM on July 11, 2015 [20 favorites]
APA just another organisation. How about naming some of the chief apologists and flag wavers like Stephen Behnke.
The Guardian headlines another article US torture doctors could face charges after report alleges post-9/11 'collusion.
Then there is this sad excuse for a human John Leso.
Torture Accountability makes interesting if chilling reading.
posted by adamvasco at 8:11 AM on July 11, 2015 [26 favorites]
The Guardian headlines another article US torture doctors could face charges after report alleges post-9/11 'collusion.
Then there is this sad excuse for a human John Leso.
Torture Accountability makes interesting if chilling reading.
posted by adamvasco at 8:11 AM on July 11, 2015 [26 favorites]
These chickens...seem to be coming home to roost.
Finally.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:15 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Finally.
posted by LooseFilter at 8:15 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
+1 for adamvasco...its as if people have a lack of capacity for proper names when it comes to policy and outcomes. normally starts and ends with bush / cheney...
real criminals with terrible agendas and policies that deserve complete scrutiny.
reading more now. i bet they were paid handsomely for their lack of humanity
posted by brainimplant at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2015
real criminals with terrible agendas and policies that deserve complete scrutiny.
reading more now. i bet they were paid handsomely for their lack of humanity
posted by brainimplant at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2015
It's amazing to me that people ever think that if you change your organizational ethical guidelines that you change what is ethical. That's not how ethics works.
posted by inturnaround at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2015 [34 favorites]
posted by inturnaround at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2015 [34 favorites]
I think people noted the irony as soon as the phrase became public, but I only just this week read about it.)
because the overwhelmingly onside and jingoistic media of the time chose not to pursue it.
Too little, too late. The APA should be ashamed of itself.
More than just the APA, I hope. This kind of thing implicates an entire nation. Big evil was perpetrated in "our" name, and, in a so-called free society, that takes a pile of cooperation from all around.
posted by philip-random at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
because the overwhelmingly onside and jingoistic media of the time chose not to pursue it.
Too little, too late. The APA should be ashamed of itself.
More than just the APA, I hope. This kind of thing implicates an entire nation. Big evil was perpetrated in "our" name, and, in a so-called free society, that takes a pile of cooperation from all around.
posted by philip-random at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2015 [6 favorites]
An article I was just reading noted that "enhanced interrogation" is a particularly infelicitous choice of phrasing, given that the Gestapo used the same term.
You mean "perfectly apt", given that the USA took in a lot of Nazi scientists and gave them protection and jobs, and that the CIA was headed by the Nazi-associated Bush family.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:33 AM on July 11, 2015 [9 favorites]
You mean "perfectly apt", given that the USA took in a lot of Nazi scientists and gave them protection and jobs, and that the CIA was headed by the Nazi-associated Bush family.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:33 AM on July 11, 2015 [9 favorites]
There is an very peculiar pattern of not naming the presidents of the APA who were involved in this. Major media sources just keep blandly referring to them as "Two former presidents of the APA" as if their names are some kind of secret. This is one of the first reports to prominently use their names but the mainstream reporting is still abstracting them away.
One of them - Gerald Koocher is a Dean at DePaul University and teaches a graduate seminar in ethics for clinical psychology PhD candidates (and has the blandest whitewashed wikipedia page you will ever see).
posted by srboisvert at 9:48 AM on July 11, 2015 [20 favorites]
One of them - Gerald Koocher is a Dean at DePaul University and teaches a graduate seminar in ethics for clinical psychology PhD candidates (and has the blandest whitewashed wikipedia page you will ever see).
posted by srboisvert at 9:48 AM on July 11, 2015 [20 favorites]
I keep seeing headlines like "Torture Doctors May Be Prosecuted" and all I can think is, "Only the doctors?!"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:03 AM on July 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:03 AM on July 11, 2015 [10 favorites]
In 2006 salon published an article psychological warfare about the APA task force report to change it's ethics policy;
six of the 10 psychologists on the task force have close ties to the military. The names and backgrounds of the task force participants were not made public by the APA; Salon obtained them from congressional sources. Four of the psychologists who crafted the permissive policy were involved with the handling of detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, or served with the military in Afghanistan — all environments where serious cases of abuse have been documented..
It's not as if the information and concern was not out there: - see Mad in America. As with so much that is so totally depraved which has happened in America over the last fourteen years all that I can draw as a conclusion is that this was all totally fine with the majority probably because of the systematic fear beamed into living rooms by that new great industry Homeland Security.
posted by adamvasco at 10:09 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
six of the 10 psychologists on the task force have close ties to the military. The names and backgrounds of the task force participants were not made public by the APA; Salon obtained them from congressional sources. Four of the psychologists who crafted the permissive policy were involved with the handling of detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, or served with the military in Afghanistan — all environments where serious cases of abuse have been documented..
It's not as if the information and concern was not out there: - see Mad in America. As with so much that is so totally depraved which has happened in America over the last fourteen years all that I can draw as a conclusion is that this was all totally fine with the majority probably because of the systematic fear beamed into living rooms by that new great industry Homeland Security.
posted by adamvasco at 10:09 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
War criminals. We executed Japanese for these same crimes.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:28 AM on July 11, 2015 [19 favorites]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 10:28 AM on July 11, 2015 [19 favorites]
It's not as if the information and concern was not out there: - see Mad in America. As with so much that is so totally depraved which has happened in America over the last fourteen years fear...beamed into living rooms by that new great industry Homeland Security."
Well Adam, you make it sound like some aberration this interrogation/torture thing America HAS going. Now, historically the Armed Forces used (still does!) the tactic of interrogation first, then torture. I see little difference but there it is.
Now, met Heer Scraff, born in Rastenburg, died in Bear Springs, California!
Ok, what gets me is why did we need to import this guy. My uncle was subjected to his methods for two minutes, love this story because the MF knew uncle was from Chicago.
Called him a "Luft gangster", my uncle asked to place a call to confirm his neighbor was Louis Capone. Scraff just pressed a button for the guard.
I mean WTF, this guy couldn't get shit outta a 19 year old wise guy from the south side. Well, my uncle didn't know anything beyond what was already known. It was like a verification mill with deprivations.
At Stalag, my uncle saw a russian beat to death for trying to trade, strafed by the RAF, his friend killed on and on. But he always hated that we hired him on, it contributed to POWs suffering.
To still love your country while it hired this guy is...
posted by clavdivs at 10:58 AM on July 11, 2015
Well Adam, you make it sound like some aberration this interrogation/torture thing America HAS going. Now, historically the Armed Forces used (still does!) the tactic of interrogation first, then torture. I see little difference but there it is.
Now, met Heer Scraff, born in Rastenburg, died in Bear Springs, California!
Ok, what gets me is why did we need to import this guy. My uncle was subjected to his methods for two minutes, love this story because the MF knew uncle was from Chicago.
Called him a "Luft gangster", my uncle asked to place a call to confirm his neighbor was Louis Capone. Scraff just pressed a button for the guard.
I mean WTF, this guy couldn't get shit outta a 19 year old wise guy from the south side. Well, my uncle didn't know anything beyond what was already known. It was like a verification mill with deprivations.
At Stalag, my uncle saw a russian beat to death for trying to trade, strafed by the RAF, his friend killed on and on. But he always hated that we hired him on, it contributed to POWs suffering.
To still love your country while it hired this guy is...
posted by clavdivs at 10:58 AM on July 11, 2015
Addendum: I mentioned the RAF. No bad there, no casualties and the pilot did a sharp turn exposing himself to let the prisoners know it was a mistake.
posted by clavdivs at 11:07 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 11:07 AM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
The APA should be ashamed of itself.
Yes, but first the APA must want to be ashamed of itself.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:18 AM on July 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yes, but first the APA must want to be ashamed of itself.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:18 AM on July 11, 2015 [8 favorites]
Previously: The APA Grapples with Its Torture Demons: Six Questions for Nathaniel Raymond
posted by carsonb at 11:21 AM on July 11, 2015
posted by carsonb at 11:21 AM on July 11, 2015
Considering the long-established failure of torture to get vital information or achieve other goals, America's Pro-Torture Gang strike me as totally in collusion with and support of The Terrorists. But then, creating and building up dangerous groups like ISIS is what the Military-Industrial Complex call 'job security'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:22 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:22 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
What are the names of these "psychologists" who used their education and experience to torture people?
James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, who are now set for a life of comfort and luxury for the rest of their days, unless something changes.
posted by rhizome at 12:24 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, who are now set for a life of comfort and luxury for the rest of their days, unless something changes.
posted by rhizome at 12:24 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Note how the APA "apologizes for the findings" that they themselves didn't make.
posted by rhizome at 12:26 PM on July 11, 2015
posted by rhizome at 12:26 PM on July 11, 2015
A useful article on who know what, who refused to go along with the govt., and how things were kept secret until they were not can be read HERE
posted by Postroad at 12:50 PM on July 11, 2015
posted by Postroad at 12:50 PM on July 11, 2015
Records show Mitchell, Jessen & Associates became inactive in October 2009. However, four of the company's owners appear to work at other firms that currently consult with the US government. Three of them — Spivey, Sporleder, and Aldrich — are still working together at a company called the Center For Personal Protection & Safety, which counts both the Department of Defense and the FBI among its clients.
posted by adamvasco at 1:03 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by adamvasco at 1:03 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah. Let's go after some dumb ass major instead of , oh, like GWB. The commander in chief.
posted by notreally at 1:32 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by notreally at 1:32 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
The APA needs to be burned to the ground like Sherman leaving Atlanta...
The USA has no need for traitors. These domestic enemies did more damage to this nation than any of the so-called-foreign enemies.
Everyone who was ever involved should have their licenses pulled, and should never be allowed to work professionally again.
posted by mikelieman at 2:43 PM on July 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
The USA has no need for traitors. These domestic enemies did more damage to this nation than any of the so-called-foreign enemies.
Everyone who was ever involved should have their licenses pulled, and should never be allowed to work professionally again.
posted by mikelieman at 2:43 PM on July 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yes, this news is not new, but this latest round of press is reporting on the APA-commissioned independent investigation. So it's news that the independent investigator(s) they themselves commissioned found worse than what the association was apparently expecting.
I worked for APA, alternating between staff and a 1099 contractor, for 10 years. I didn't have much interaction with members after the first few years because I switched roles, and have had no dealings with them since 2007. I'm extremely disappointed in APA for having let their extreme ambition get to the point where they are torture apologists. But I'm not entirely surprised.
There was an arrogance that beggared belief at times, some coming from members and some from staff who were themselves psychologists. (NB: "psychologists" here only sometimes refers to clinicians/counselors. Very often, it refers to the members I myself worked with: research scientists. For example, people who conduct research on drugs or memory or childhood experiences.)
In my experience, which I acknowledge is not at all insidery compared to people still working there and people with much closer member relationships than what I had, many staff and members wanted so much for psychologists to be on the same level of esteem as physicians. "The other APA" (American Psychiatric Association), as we called it, for example, vehemently opposed the psychologists' push for prescribing privileges. But there was zero doubt in the psychologists' minds that they should be entitled to prescribe controlled substances without a medical school diploma, a residency, or a medical license. The Practice Directorate (home to the clinicians) was known, inside and outside of APA, as the worst offenders of this self-aggrandizement and overinflated self esteem. But many others perpetrated it too, from staff with PhDs who thought it was cool to ask everyone else to address them as Dr. So And So, to several of the top publications staff, who made questionable ethical moves, and pretty well admitted he thought he was untouchable, in the name of bringing in APA's bread and butter in the form of database subscription fees (PSYCinfo, etc).
I am very sad about what APA has done to itself, but in retrospect, I guess I could see it coming. I'm upset and weirdly, offended that some of it overlapped with my time there, though by 9/11 I had moved away from working with members. During my tenure, membership was 155,00, and now it's 122,500. Losing 30k+ members in 8 years is evidence that APA's members themselves recognize the association's identity crisis. I wonder if the executive council and the senior staff will recognize it now too, in light of the crow they are now eating after their years of denials.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:03 PM on July 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
I worked for APA, alternating between staff and a 1099 contractor, for 10 years. I didn't have much interaction with members after the first few years because I switched roles, and have had no dealings with them since 2007. I'm extremely disappointed in APA for having let their extreme ambition get to the point where they are torture apologists. But I'm not entirely surprised.
There was an arrogance that beggared belief at times, some coming from members and some from staff who were themselves psychologists. (NB: "psychologists" here only sometimes refers to clinicians/counselors. Very often, it refers to the members I myself worked with: research scientists. For example, people who conduct research on drugs or memory or childhood experiences.)
In my experience, which I acknowledge is not at all insidery compared to people still working there and people with much closer member relationships than what I had, many staff and members wanted so much for psychologists to be on the same level of esteem as physicians. "The other APA" (American Psychiatric Association), as we called it, for example, vehemently opposed the psychologists' push for prescribing privileges. But there was zero doubt in the psychologists' minds that they should be entitled to prescribe controlled substances without a medical school diploma, a residency, or a medical license. The Practice Directorate (home to the clinicians) was known, inside and outside of APA, as the worst offenders of this self-aggrandizement and overinflated self esteem. But many others perpetrated it too, from staff with PhDs who thought it was cool to ask everyone else to address them as Dr. So And So, to several of the top publications staff, who made questionable ethical moves, and pretty well admitted he thought he was untouchable, in the name of bringing in APA's bread and butter in the form of database subscription fees (PSYCinfo, etc).
I am very sad about what APA has done to itself, but in retrospect, I guess I could see it coming. I'm upset and weirdly, offended that some of it overlapped with my time there, though by 9/11 I had moved away from working with members. During my tenure, membership was 155,00, and now it's 122,500. Losing 30k+ members in 8 years is evidence that APA's members themselves recognize the association's identity crisis. I wonder if the executive council and the senior staff will recognize it now too, in light of the crow they are now eating after their years of denials.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:03 PM on July 11, 2015 [4 favorites]
>But there was zero doubt in the psychologists' minds that they should be entitled to prescribe controlled substances without a medical school diploma, a residency, or a medical license.
Was there a push to "professionalize/upgrade" to having the usual medical school degree/residency/license along with prescription privilege? If not, why not?
posted by The arrows are too fast at 3:29 PM on July 11, 2015
Was there a push to "professionalize/upgrade" to having the usual medical school degree/residency/license along with prescription privilege? If not, why not?
posted by The arrows are too fast at 3:29 PM on July 11, 2015
There was, and still is, a push to require some additional amount of education for psychologists who want to prescribe. (And it's not even legal in most states yet.) I didn't know the current status of the education stipulation but found it on Wikipedia. It would require a 2-year masters after getting the PhD. I don't know all the ins and outs of the reasoning behind the masters degree; in fact, when I was there, if I recall correctly, they wanted it to be less schooling than that.
I should add that I worked in communications and am not a psychologist.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:36 PM on July 11, 2015
I should add that I worked in communications and am not a psychologist.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 3:36 PM on July 11, 2015
>There was, and still is, a push to require some additional amount of education for psychologists who want to prescribe...
From what I understand as to how this works in Illinois, the newest state to offer psychologists prescribing privileges, is that it requires a master's degree equivalent in pharmacology, then the prescribing psychologist must work under a Psychiatrist. They are only allowed to prescribe schedule 2+ medications and only for mental disorders. Quite frankly it's as easy to get a Physicians Assistant degree and it wouldn't limit what they can prescribe.
IMO Pharmacology is just another method of treating mental disorders, in the same class of approaches a s Rogerian, CBT, etc. It requires a lot of training, education and supervised experience to do well, and the ramifications of doing it poorly are great. Personally I have no intention of pursing any type of med training, and my own practice involves actively reducing the number of people on sleeping pills though the use of CBT-I, which works better than meds anyway.
>But there was zero doubt in the psychologists' minds that they should be entitled to prescribe controlled substances without a medical school diploma, a residency, or a medical license.
I'm concerned that we're conflating the actions of the APA leadership with psychologists as a whole. APA leadership did some nasty things here. Very few psychologists are part of the APA leadership. I've worked with a lot of psychologists and most saw the change in wording as providing psychologists with the leeway to apply their aspirational ethics to situations where the law and ethics were conflicting. I doubt anyone not involved in this controversy would have seen this coming. The worst I could accuse most psychologists of is occasionally being a bit elitist about their profession.
Disclaimer: I'm a Counselor (not a Psychologist). I'm affiliated with the American Counseling Association not the APA. They are actually my competition :)
posted by Jernau at 5:12 PM on July 11, 2015
From what I understand as to how this works in Illinois, the newest state to offer psychologists prescribing privileges, is that it requires a master's degree equivalent in pharmacology, then the prescribing psychologist must work under a Psychiatrist. They are only allowed to prescribe schedule 2+ medications and only for mental disorders. Quite frankly it's as easy to get a Physicians Assistant degree and it wouldn't limit what they can prescribe.
IMO Pharmacology is just another method of treating mental disorders, in the same class of approaches a s Rogerian, CBT, etc. It requires a lot of training, education and supervised experience to do well, and the ramifications of doing it poorly are great. Personally I have no intention of pursing any type of med training, and my own practice involves actively reducing the number of people on sleeping pills though the use of CBT-I, which works better than meds anyway.
>But there was zero doubt in the psychologists' minds that they should be entitled to prescribe controlled substances without a medical school diploma, a residency, or a medical license.
I'm concerned that we're conflating the actions of the APA leadership with psychologists as a whole. APA leadership did some nasty things here. Very few psychologists are part of the APA leadership. I've worked with a lot of psychologists and most saw the change in wording as providing psychologists with the leeway to apply their aspirational ethics to situations where the law and ethics were conflicting. I doubt anyone not involved in this controversy would have seen this coming. The worst I could accuse most psychologists of is occasionally being a bit elitist about their profession.
Disclaimer: I'm a Counselor (not a Psychologist). I'm affiliated with the American Counseling Association not the APA. They are actually my competition :)
posted by Jernau at 5:12 PM on July 11, 2015
Does anyone have any thoughts on weather the APA should continue to exist?
Would anyone here feel comfortable seeing a Psychologist that was a member of the APA?
Given their declining membership, I would imagine that if enough members left the organization could/would just dissolve. And perhaps this is for the best.
If torture is considered within the ethical boundaries, why should anyone have any trust or faith in anyone that is a member of such an organization?
In case anyone thinks that this is a single black-spot on the credibility of this organization, it's worth noting that the APA has had more than one president of it's organization that was directly involved with MKULTRA. I don't toss around the word 'evil' lightly, but these fuckers are evil.
posted by el io at 9:28 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
Would anyone here feel comfortable seeing a Psychologist that was a member of the APA?
Given their declining membership, I would imagine that if enough members left the organization could/would just dissolve. And perhaps this is for the best.
If torture is considered within the ethical boundaries, why should anyone have any trust or faith in anyone that is a member of such an organization?
In case anyone thinks that this is a single black-spot on the credibility of this organization, it's worth noting that the APA has had more than one president of it's organization that was directly involved with MKULTRA. I don't toss around the word 'evil' lightly, but these fuckers are evil.
posted by el io at 9:28 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think tossing Cheney and Bush into jail would have a bizzare effect of enabling the GOP spin machine to rehabilitate their popularity, by making them into martyrs for 'Merica who were taken out by soft liberal.
posted by humanfont at 9:41 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 9:41 PM on July 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
From what I've heard from various law-enforcement piggies after a few drinks is that torture is as American as hot-dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet. Psychologists? Mere draftees to the effort.
posted by telstar at 9:49 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by telstar at 9:49 PM on July 11, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm concerned that we're conflating the actions of the APA leadership with psychologists as a whole.
Fair point, and I didn't mean to do that. The paragraph where I kept using "psychologists" was to clearly distinguish from the American Psychiatric Association. Time was I was used to doing semantic backflips when writing about the psychological association versus the psychiatric association versus psychologists versus psychiatrists versus physicians in general. Obviously I'm way rusty on that.
APA leadership did some nasty things here. Very few psychologists are part of the APA leadership.
That's not really accurate. APA is a membership association whose members all have careers--as clinical psychologists, research scientists, etc. It has a voluntary governance structure of unpaid elected and appointed positions--the main board, the executive council, the president, and seemingly infinite topic-specific boards and task-specific committees--every single one comprised of psychologists. They are all elected from within the membership of 122,000.
This unpaid governance structure is wholly separate from, and is served by, the paid operational staff of the association. The staff keeps the trains running: publications, electronic databases, websites, membership, PR, conferences, legislative advocacy, accreditation of education programs, IT, it's a big list. When I worked there, the staff numbered 400+. Many of the staff are psychologists, including the CEO, deputy CEO, the heads of all the directorates, the senior staff of all the directorates, the head of publishing, the senior staff of the advocacy groups, and many other positions. It was easily 1/4 of the staff as of 2007, maybe 1/3.
The APA leadership--the president, the executive council, the board, and all the (paid) senior staff of the association--are, to a one, all psychologists.
I was not involved with the PENS Task Force, which is at the center of this ethical nightmare. But all APA task forces are comprised of elected membership--all psychologists--and supported by a small number of operational staff, most of whom would have also been psychologists, except for occasionally admin staff. These task forces, just like all the boards and committees, are charged with determining the course and nature of the profession. Their decisions are usually binding on the rest of the APA membership, though they usually need the support of the elected president. (I'm grossly oversimplifying the process) So, as you can imagine, political winds blow through the active membership and are at the heart of any pendulum that swings back and forth on what is ethical and what is not. If, for example, there's an APA president that isn't in favor of issue X, then that issue is likely to need to wait until that president's term is over and a person in favor of that issue is elected to the position to gain any traction
I doubt anyone not involved in this controversy would have seen this coming. The worst I could accuse most psychologists of is occasionally being a bit elitist about their profession.
What is 2 or 3 steps beyond elitism? That's what I saw of many members and staff, and certain entire groups, while on staff. Not exclusively though, of course. My closest friends on there were Wellstone-loving, Democracy Now-listening de facto socialists.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 6:05 AM on July 12, 2015
Fair point, and I didn't mean to do that. The paragraph where I kept using "psychologists" was to clearly distinguish from the American Psychiatric Association. Time was I was used to doing semantic backflips when writing about the psychological association versus the psychiatric association versus psychologists versus psychiatrists versus physicians in general. Obviously I'm way rusty on that.
APA leadership did some nasty things here. Very few psychologists are part of the APA leadership.
That's not really accurate. APA is a membership association whose members all have careers--as clinical psychologists, research scientists, etc. It has a voluntary governance structure of unpaid elected and appointed positions--the main board, the executive council, the president, and seemingly infinite topic-specific boards and task-specific committees--every single one comprised of psychologists. They are all elected from within the membership of 122,000.
This unpaid governance structure is wholly separate from, and is served by, the paid operational staff of the association. The staff keeps the trains running: publications, electronic databases, websites, membership, PR, conferences, legislative advocacy, accreditation of education programs, IT, it's a big list. When I worked there, the staff numbered 400+. Many of the staff are psychologists, including the CEO, deputy CEO, the heads of all the directorates, the senior staff of all the directorates, the head of publishing, the senior staff of the advocacy groups, and many other positions. It was easily 1/4 of the staff as of 2007, maybe 1/3.
The APA leadership--the president, the executive council, the board, and all the (paid) senior staff of the association--are, to a one, all psychologists.
I was not involved with the PENS Task Force, which is at the center of this ethical nightmare. But all APA task forces are comprised of elected membership--all psychologists--and supported by a small number of operational staff, most of whom would have also been psychologists, except for occasionally admin staff. These task forces, just like all the boards and committees, are charged with determining the course and nature of the profession. Their decisions are usually binding on the rest of the APA membership, though they usually need the support of the elected president. (I'm grossly oversimplifying the process) So, as you can imagine, political winds blow through the active membership and are at the heart of any pendulum that swings back and forth on what is ethical and what is not. If, for example, there's an APA president that isn't in favor of issue X, then that issue is likely to need to wait until that president's term is over and a person in favor of that issue is elected to the position to gain any traction
I doubt anyone not involved in this controversy would have seen this coming. The worst I could accuse most psychologists of is occasionally being a bit elitist about their profession.
What is 2 or 3 steps beyond elitism? That's what I saw of many members and staff, and certain entire groups, while on staff. Not exclusively though, of course. My closest friends on there were Wellstone-loving, Democracy Now-listening de facto socialists.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 6:05 AM on July 12, 2015
Former FBI Director (and professional napper) Louis Freeh signs with former APA head Behnke as a flexbone slotback.
posted by rhizome at 12:10 AM on July 13, 2015
posted by rhizome at 12:10 AM on July 13, 2015
This is a goon squad professional wrestling show now. It would be hard to think offhand of somebody I would less like to have defending me in an ethics dispute than that guy.
posted by bukvich at 5:47 AM on July 13, 2015
posted by bukvich at 5:47 AM on July 13, 2015
I think the intent is to head off any civil and/or criminal disputes.
posted by rhizome at 7:37 AM on July 13, 2015
posted by rhizome at 7:37 AM on July 13, 2015
A nice distillation from David Luban at Just Security
posted by rhizome at 7:39 AM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 7:39 AM on July 13, 2015 [3 favorites]
Would anyone here feel comfortable seeing a Psychologist that was a member of the APA?
Given that the APA is the only real accrediting institution for psychology you'd be crazy to get your counseling snake oil elsewhere (and possibly it'd difficult to be reimbursed by your insurer). A psychology graduate degree from an unaccredited program is barely worth the paper it is printed on.
APA accreditation ensures things like proper course coverage, that diversity issues are taught, that faculty are diverse and properly credentialed, proper work experience and training and so on..
Also the APA publishes most of the top tier journals in both research and clinical psychology.
You're advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. You might as well call for the dissolution of the United States because they also tortured.
Given their declining membership, I would imagine that if enough members left the organization could/would just dissolve. And perhaps this is for the best.
The decline is unlikely to be entirely due to members having ethical qualms about the organization. It is more likely connected to academic departments cutting budget items like allowing professors to expense membership fees and probably also a shift to people joining more specialist societies - The APA is overwhelmingly clinical and research psychologists have been abandoning it because it has become unresponsive to their interests and concerns. Also online journal access has greatly diminished the value of individual journal subscriptions and memberships for researchers.
The people involved in this are enablers of torturers and war criminals and should be treated as such. It is a huge black mark for the APA and strongly suggests that they need some institutional reforms to prevent the leadership from having so much control that they can perpetrate this kind of evil largely unchecked. The APA itself still does many useful things (even if I do disagree with them on many many other issues).
posted by srboisvert at 8:30 AM on July 13, 2015
Given that the APA is the only real accrediting institution for psychology you'd be crazy to get your counseling snake oil elsewhere (and possibly it'd difficult to be reimbursed by your insurer). A psychology graduate degree from an unaccredited program is barely worth the paper it is printed on.
APA accreditation ensures things like proper course coverage, that diversity issues are taught, that faculty are diverse and properly credentialed, proper work experience and training and so on..
Also the APA publishes most of the top tier journals in both research and clinical psychology.
You're advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. You might as well call for the dissolution of the United States because they also tortured.
Given their declining membership, I would imagine that if enough members left the organization could/would just dissolve. And perhaps this is for the best.
The decline is unlikely to be entirely due to members having ethical qualms about the organization. It is more likely connected to academic departments cutting budget items like allowing professors to expense membership fees and probably also a shift to people joining more specialist societies - The APA is overwhelmingly clinical and research psychologists have been abandoning it because it has become unresponsive to their interests and concerns. Also online journal access has greatly diminished the value of individual journal subscriptions and memberships for researchers.
The people involved in this are enablers of torturers and war criminals and should be treated as such. It is a huge black mark for the APA and strongly suggests that they need some institutional reforms to prevent the leadership from having so much control that they can perpetrate this kind of evil largely unchecked. The APA itself still does many useful things (even if I do disagree with them on many many other issues).
posted by srboisvert at 8:30 AM on July 13, 2015
Really good piece by Luban. This gets to the heart of what I was saying about the behavior being beyond elitism: (on a phone, please excuse odd quoting)
"'Then-APA President] Levant told Sidley that a goal of his trip to Guantanamo Bay in October 2005 … was to give a good impression of psychology to DoD officials, which aided his long-term goal of expanding the scope of psychology (233).
Exactly.'
Exactly.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a guild acting to advance the interests of its members—including by developing relationships with government agencies. The problem, however, was that the virtually uniform, unswerving devotion to this aspect of the organization’s mission demagnetized the moral compass of virtually all APA officials—including those whose jobs were to ensure ethical conduct, even when it might mean fewer professional opportunities for the membership."
Many in APA leadership were promoting psychology as a legit profession (something the association exists to do) to DoD at any price, including advocating and devising torture.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 2:33 AM on July 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
"'Then-APA President] Levant told Sidley that a goal of his trip to Guantanamo Bay in October 2005 … was to give a good impression of psychology to DoD officials, which aided his long-term goal of expanding the scope of psychology (233).
Exactly.'
Exactly.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a guild acting to advance the interests of its members—including by developing relationships with government agencies. The problem, however, was that the virtually uniform, unswerving devotion to this aspect of the organization’s mission demagnetized the moral compass of virtually all APA officials—including those whose jobs were to ensure ethical conduct, even when it might mean fewer professional opportunities for the membership."
Many in APA leadership were promoting psychology as a legit profession (something the association exists to do) to DoD at any price, including advocating and devising torture.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 2:33 AM on July 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Koocher's response to the report.
Note the URL and nature of his consultancy.
I suspect this will blow up in the news over the next month with the upcoming APA meeting.
posted by srboisvert at 8:39 AM on July 15, 2015
Note the URL and nature of his consultancy.
I suspect this will blow up in the news over the next month with the upcoming APA meeting.
posted by srboisvert at 8:39 AM on July 15, 2015
I love their, "we told those stuffed-shirts in legal they can cram their confidentiality request with walnuts!" gambit before expounding at length about how it was just happenstance that lots of military-connected people were involved in the decision process and that while bad things might have happened it wasn't due to anything they did. Or something.
posted by rhizome at 1:15 PM on July 15, 2015
posted by rhizome at 1:15 PM on July 15, 2015
Mark Ames: The CIA and the American Psychiatric Association: Partners in Crime
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:33 PM on July 15, 2015
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:33 PM on July 15, 2015
Accused of Enabling Torture, a US Military Psychologist Says He Was Doing the Opposite
posted by rhizome at 2:33 PM on July 15, 2015
posted by rhizome at 2:33 PM on July 15, 2015
Rustic Etruscan, that article is about the American Psychological Association, not the American Psychiatric Association.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 10:59 AM on July 16, 2015
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 10:59 AM on July 16, 2015
...and thanks, RE, for making that article public for the next 23 hours.
The article says, in part, that the CEO, deputy CEO, and the communications director have all resigned/taken early retirement. Good.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 11:09 AM on July 16, 2015
The article says, in part, that the CEO, deputy CEO, and the communications director have all resigned/taken early retirement. Good.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 11:09 AM on July 16, 2015
Due to the prominence of Mitchell and Jessen, the APsychiatricA might be sliding under the radar.
posted by rhizome at 12:13 PM on July 16, 2015
posted by rhizome at 12:13 PM on July 16, 2015
Rustic Etruscan, that article is about the American Psychological Association, not the American Psychiatric Association.
Argh, that was a dumb mistake. Thanks.
...and thanks, RE, for making that article public for the next 23 hours.
That's the archived version I found. That version should be public forever, as far as I know. I'm surprised Pando hasn't made it so the Wayback Machine can't crawl their site, but if their negligence means links like mine won't break after a few days, I won't complain.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:26 PM on July 16, 2015
Argh, that was a dumb mistake. Thanks.
...and thanks, RE, for making that article public for the next 23 hours.
That's the archived version I found. That version should be public forever, as far as I know. I'm surprised Pando hasn't made it so the Wayback Machine can't crawl their site, but if their negligence means links like mine won't break after a few days, I won't complain.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:26 PM on July 16, 2015
The largest association of psychologists in the United States voted to begin reversing its policy of collusion in torture on Friday by prohibiting members of the American Psychological Association from participating in the interrogation of US prisoners on foreign soil.
posted by adamvasco at 11:23 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 11:23 AM on August 8, 2015 [3 favorites]
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