Like Chicago in the 1930s
July 15, 2015 6:08 PM Subscribe
Six Brazilians a day die at the hands of state security forces - the brutal result of a civil war between police death squads and criminal gangs.
In Rio de Janeiro militias are present in 148 communities within 28 neighborhoods.
In Rio de Janeiro militias are present in 148 communities within 28 neighborhoods.
Police violence in Brazil isn't a new issue -- the classic study in English is probably Paul Chevigny's Edge of the Knife: Police Violence in the Americas, and of course the roots of the violence go back to the underlying disparities and inequalities that have been there for generations.
Those places are also interesting counterpoints to the usual gun control arguments, because (as the article notes) Brazil has extremely restrictive and tough gun control laws and yet still has extraordinary levels of gun violence.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:45 PM on July 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Those places are also interesting counterpoints to the usual gun control arguments, because (as the article notes) Brazil has extremely restrictive and tough gun control laws and yet still has extraordinary levels of gun violence.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:45 PM on July 15, 2015 [2 favorites]
Huh. Sounds like it's even worse than the United States.
posted by fredludd at 8:57 PM on July 15, 2015
posted by fredludd at 8:57 PM on July 15, 2015
Dip Flash -- one would almost think that police violence in the Americas is a function of racism and poverty.
posted by wuwei at 9:36 PM on July 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by wuwei at 9:36 PM on July 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Those places are also interesting counterpoints to the usual gun control arguments
they really aren't, unless you think that a developing country where 20% of the population lives on less than four dollars a day, the GDP per capita is $11K, and vast numbers of the urban population live in sprawling slums like this is in any way a valid point of comparison for the USA?
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:42 PM on July 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
they really aren't, unless you think that a developing country where 20% of the population lives on less than four dollars a day, the GDP per capita is $11K, and vast numbers of the urban population live in sprawling slums like this is in any way a valid point of comparison for the USA?
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:42 PM on July 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I agree that one should be careful comparing Brazil to the US. They are similar in that (for instance) there's a lot of racial disparity, but besides the vast economic differences I think that--speaking as someone who hasn't been to the US--the role violence plays in people's lives is different as well: in the US it seems to be more geographically isolated and it can look very "distant" depending on your class. In Brazil, on the other hand, violence affects pretty much everyone. The feeling of safety is only achieved by those who can afford to live behind gated communities.
Interestingly, although Brazil hasn't really become safer in the last decades, the landscape changed a lot when you look into the individual regions. São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, which historically have been two of the richest states, and which 15 years ago were two of the most violent, now are among the safest: they both halved their homicide rate between 2002 and 2012 (although now it seems to be on the rise again).
Unfortunately, violence has increased in most other states. In the north and northeast, where you don't get the iconic favelas, but you do get a lot of poverty--and a lot less media share--, the homicide rate in most states has more than doubled. And in particular in Pará, the state covered by the story.
So, while I don't think Brazilians would support police violence, the situation in many of those places is bad enough that there's a sentiment that it's either that or letting criminals take over the city. It feels a little bit like trying to implement fire safety measures while a fire is already going on. In that sense I think the atmosphere in Brazil is vastly different from the one in the US.
posted by maskd at 2:50 AM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Interestingly, although Brazil hasn't really become safer in the last decades, the landscape changed a lot when you look into the individual regions. São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, which historically have been two of the richest states, and which 15 years ago were two of the most violent, now are among the safest: they both halved their homicide rate between 2002 and 2012 (although now it seems to be on the rise again).
Unfortunately, violence has increased in most other states. In the north and northeast, where you don't get the iconic favelas, but you do get a lot of poverty--and a lot less media share--, the homicide rate in most states has more than doubled. And in particular in Pará, the state covered by the story.
So, while I don't think Brazilians would support police violence, the situation in many of those places is bad enough that there's a sentiment that it's either that or letting criminals take over the city. It feels a little bit like trying to implement fire safety measures while a fire is already going on. In that sense I think the atmosphere in Brazil is vastly different from the one in the US.
posted by maskd at 2:50 AM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure I understand the title. Are the six Brazilians that, on average, are killed every day by state security forces part of the criminal gangs? Or are they civilians caught in the crossfire? If so, why word it that way? Or are criminal gangs in Brazil not considered Brazilian? I am is confused.
posted by enamon at 6:25 AM on July 16, 2015
posted by enamon at 6:25 AM on July 16, 2015
I do wish commentators wouldn´t try and compare everything to USA.
Brazil is what it is and is culterally very different from the N. hemispherical empire. Attempts at comparison don´t really help understand what to most of us is completely foreign.
A year back a new security secretary quietly brought in a new, and at first sight surprising, policy: he forbade police from providing first aid at the scene of shootings. Though he did not come out and say it, the reasoning was simple—and depressing. Such “first aid” is often in reality interference with the scene of a murder by police in order to cover up a crime—or indeed an opportunity to commit that murder on the way to the hospital, where the police can hand over a dead body and lie about the circumstances in which they found it. In the following months the rate at which the state’s police killed in the line of duty fell by two-fifths
To many Brazilians the only good Bandido is a dead Bandido. Police violence against criminal is socially acceptable by a majority. Human rights are not really there for the poor who are most affected by the violence. Amarildo´s bones are still missing. Many are killed or injured by stray bullets. What goes up must come down. There is sizeable portion of the polulation who support fascism.
In the `civilized`world we think nothing of asking a policeman for help or directions. In Brazil a policeman is to be avoided. I am not going into the few bad apples argument, the corruption is endemic and starts at the top; trainng is minimal.
I think social media will slowly bring about change. The totally trash mainstream media is more interested in soaps, bum bum and footie and todays scandal is forgotten because there will be a new one tomorrow. With everyone now having a camera phone hiding things is slightly more difficult; however getting politicians to act is not.
posted by adamvasco at 6:47 AM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
Brazil is what it is and is culterally very different from the N. hemispherical empire. Attempts at comparison don´t really help understand what to most of us is completely foreign.
A year back a new security secretary quietly brought in a new, and at first sight surprising, policy: he forbade police from providing first aid at the scene of shootings. Though he did not come out and say it, the reasoning was simple—and depressing. Such “first aid” is often in reality interference with the scene of a murder by police in order to cover up a crime—or indeed an opportunity to commit that murder on the way to the hospital, where the police can hand over a dead body and lie about the circumstances in which they found it. In the following months the rate at which the state’s police killed in the line of duty fell by two-fifths
To many Brazilians the only good Bandido is a dead Bandido. Police violence against criminal is socially acceptable by a majority. Human rights are not really there for the poor who are most affected by the violence. Amarildo´s bones are still missing. Many are killed or injured by stray bullets. What goes up must come down. There is sizeable portion of the polulation who support fascism.
In the `civilized`world we think nothing of asking a policeman for help or directions. In Brazil a policeman is to be avoided. I am not going into the few bad apples argument, the corruption is endemic and starts at the top; trainng is minimal.
I think social media will slowly bring about change. The totally trash mainstream media is more interested in soaps, bum bum and footie and todays scandal is forgotten because there will be a new one tomorrow. With everyone now having a camera phone hiding things is slightly more difficult; however getting politicians to act is not.
posted by adamvasco at 6:47 AM on July 16, 2015 [2 favorites]
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Good thing the Brazilians have such an efficient police service, yes?
posted by wuwei at 6:21 PM on July 15, 2015