"4. Thou shalt not refrigerate fresh mozzarella"
July 31, 2015 7:59 AM Subscribe
10 Common Crimes Against Cheese You Don't Have to Commit - Serious Eats piece by Niki Achitoff-Gray. Previously: 7 Secrets To a Beautiful Cheese Board
From the Serious Eats link:
From the Serious Eats link:
"Here's the thing: ALL cheeses should be served at room temperature. First off, we perceive flavors better at temperatures nearing our own body temperature. Second, as cheese softens, its fat-soluble flavor compounds get better access to our taste buds. And third, aromas are more volatile at warmer temperatures, which means you can smell (and taste) the cheese better. In other words, the colder a cheese, the less you'll be able to detect its full range of flavors, and you definitely won't be enjoying the same texture the cheesemaker painstakingly engineered. Eating a cold piece of 25-dollar-a-pound cheese is gonna make it taste a whole lot more like its sad flop of a five-dollar-a-pound cousin."
I love a little blue or other "exotic" cheese. But woo is some of that stuff is expensive. So cheep cheese lovers secret: if there's a gourmet cheese store you pass by, a quick duck through for samples can be just enough.
posted by sammyo at 8:13 AM on July 31, 2015
posted by sammyo at 8:13 AM on July 31, 2015
Eating a cold piece of 25-dollar-a-pound cheese is gonna make it taste a whole lot more like its sad flop of a five-dollar-a-pound cousin.
Alternative title for this article: "How to Save Money on Cheese".
posted by demiurge at 8:39 AM on July 31, 2015 [11 favorites]
Alternative title for this article: "How to Save Money on Cheese".
posted by demiurge at 8:39 AM on July 31, 2015 [11 favorites]
I remember seeing a documentary -- actually, in all honesty, it was probably an episode of 20/20 -- about some French marketing guru who said the French consider cheese to be alive, so they leave it out at room temperature, whereas Americans consider cheese to be dead, so they zip it in a plastic bag and put it in a refrigerated drawer.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:41 AM on July 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 8:41 AM on July 31, 2015 [10 favorites]
Pre-grated cheese is DISGUSTING! Scream it from the rooftops! Disgusting!
posted by oceanjesse at 8:44 AM on July 31, 2015
posted by oceanjesse at 8:44 AM on July 31, 2015
Depending on the variety, pre-grated cheese often has an anti-caking agent added to it, intensifying the grossness.
posted by greasy_skillet at 8:53 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by greasy_skillet at 8:53 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Sys Rq, I have the exact same vivid memory. So... it must have been a Televised News Magazine.
I understand all of these rules in theory but in practice I don't know how to integrate them into my life as a single person who likes to eat more than one variety of cheese in a typical week, doesn't want to waste food, and requires more than 50% of nutrition from non-cheese sources.
posted by telegraph at 8:53 AM on July 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
I understand all of these rules in theory but in practice I don't know how to integrate them into my life as a single person who likes to eat more than one variety of cheese in a typical week, doesn't want to waste food, and requires more than 50% of nutrition from non-cheese sources.
posted by telegraph at 8:53 AM on July 31, 2015 [6 favorites]
Anyone who has never had freshly-pulled mozzarella just out of the water bath, so shaggy and juicy that whey runs out when you take a bite, has really never had mozzarella. Once it hits any kind of refrigeration the game is over. It's fine for melting or whatever, but there's really no point in eating it straight.
posted by slkinsey at 9:00 AM on July 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 9:00 AM on July 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'd like to add one rule: "thou shalt not eat cheese before it is ripe". Which, sadly, is very difficult in America. No one here understands affinage, the art of aging a cheese.
The particular offender that vexes me is Cowgirl Creamery, an excellent cheesemaker and shop whose Red Hawk is a worthy competitor to Époisses when it comes to washed-rind cow cheeses. But only when it's ripe! When it's gooey and smelly and strongly flavored and so, so good.
But Cowgirl seems to sell their Red Hawk to stores the moment it's firm enough to transport, where it's immediately placed in the refrigerator case and sold at $45 a pound. And it's so sad in that state, chalky and hard and flavorless. I sort of get that grocery stores don't know how to sell cheese, but I've also been sold underripe Red Hawk by my local fancy cheese shop and by Cowgirl Creamery's retail outlet in the Ferry Building.
In France affinage is taken seriously. Mostly by the cheese shop; they buy the cheese from the manufacturer and then hold it in the shop. It's not even that complicated. The little neighborhood cheese shop I used to go to in Paris just left most of their cheese sitting out overnight on the counter, you could smell it half a block away. But what they sell is sold properly ripe, ready to eat. (I imagine they are more careful with more delicate cheeses).
I'd be grateful for a San Francisco cheese shop that understands affinage. I've had some good luck at Mission Cheese, but they're not exactly retail focussed and only sell American cheeses (albeit excellent ones). I've had good luck of a different sort at Rockridge, where the ninny behind the counter sold me two beautifully ripe chevre's for $1 because "they were old and moldy and we were about to throw it out".
posted by Nelson at 9:06 AM on July 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
The particular offender that vexes me is Cowgirl Creamery, an excellent cheesemaker and shop whose Red Hawk is a worthy competitor to Époisses when it comes to washed-rind cow cheeses. But only when it's ripe! When it's gooey and smelly and strongly flavored and so, so good.
But Cowgirl seems to sell their Red Hawk to stores the moment it's firm enough to transport, where it's immediately placed in the refrigerator case and sold at $45 a pound. And it's so sad in that state, chalky and hard and flavorless. I sort of get that grocery stores don't know how to sell cheese, but I've also been sold underripe Red Hawk by my local fancy cheese shop and by Cowgirl Creamery's retail outlet in the Ferry Building.
In France affinage is taken seriously. Mostly by the cheese shop; they buy the cheese from the manufacturer and then hold it in the shop. It's not even that complicated. The little neighborhood cheese shop I used to go to in Paris just left most of their cheese sitting out overnight on the counter, you could smell it half a block away. But what they sell is sold properly ripe, ready to eat. (I imagine they are more careful with more delicate cheeses).
I'd be grateful for a San Francisco cheese shop that understands affinage. I've had some good luck at Mission Cheese, but they're not exactly retail focussed and only sell American cheeses (albeit excellent ones). I've had good luck of a different sort at Rockridge, where the ninny behind the counter sold me two beautifully ripe chevre's for $1 because "they were old and moldy and we were about to throw it out".
posted by Nelson at 9:06 AM on July 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
some French marketing guru who said the French consider cheese to be alive
q.v.
posted by 7segment at 9:09 AM on July 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
q.v.
posted by 7segment at 9:09 AM on July 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have a fond memory of my Italian grandfather looking through my mom's fridge and throwing a tub of fancy-for-the-'90s grated pecorino over his shoulder and saying "Why in the hell are you paying five dollars for a pint of sawdust?"
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:20 AM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:20 AM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
1. Fuck you
2. Amen
3. Fuck you
4. Not sure, but probably Amen
5. Amen
6. Yeah - pretty much Amen, I guess.
7. Dunno, Amen?
8. Mostly Amen, unless I'm being lazy then Fuck you
9. Meh
10. Amen
AND FUCK YOU I WILL EAT VELVEETA!
posted by symbioid at 9:36 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
2. Amen
3. Fuck you
4. Not sure, but probably Amen
5. Amen
6. Yeah - pretty much Amen, I guess.
7. Dunno, Amen?
8. Mostly Amen, unless I'm being lazy then Fuck you
9. Meh
10. Amen
AND FUCK YOU I WILL EAT VELVEETA!
posted by symbioid at 9:36 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I grab a block of Kraft Extra-Sharp (YES KRAFT) from the fridge and eat it by the hunk. A good solid 10 or 15 year cheddar you don't do that to, but Kraft? Fuck yeah.
posted by symbioid at 9:37 AM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 9:37 AM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also - I eat fresh squeeky curds because I live in Wisconsin. ;)
posted by symbioid at 9:37 AM on July 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 9:37 AM on July 31, 2015 [5 favorites]
Thou shalt not refrigerate fresh mozzarella
No WHEY I would ever do this.
posted by little mouth at 9:38 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
No WHEY I would ever do this.
posted by little mouth at 9:38 AM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would absolutely love to never eat refrigerated fresh mozzarella again. Unfortunately, I do not live in New York City, so yeah. Unless I want to make it myself, it's coming from a cooler.
posted by offalark at 9:39 AM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by offalark at 9:39 AM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Good tips for reviving refrigerated mozzarella here
posted by iotic at 9:51 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by iotic at 9:51 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
So, when I have eaten refrigerated fresh mozzarella and thought "this is very tasty and fresh-tasting and has a wonderful texture", I'm just being a rube, right?
Purely on a selfish level, I would enjoy this type of article more if it were framed as "get moar enjoyment out of [cheese/shellfish/fancy vegan ingredients by doing these things" instead of containing the idea that I can "sin" against a piece of food that I bought at the store.
posted by Frowner at 10:02 AM on July 31, 2015 [20 favorites]
Purely on a selfish level, I would enjoy this type of article more if it were framed as "get moar enjoyment out of [cheese/shellfish/fancy vegan ingredients by doing these things" instead of containing the idea that I can "sin" against a piece of food that I bought at the store.
posted by Frowner at 10:02 AM on July 31, 2015 [20 favorites]
Re: Nelson's comment - are cheese shops in the US allowed to keep cheese out unrefrigerated overnight? How do food service laws apply to US cheese shops, and do they limit how cheese is handled?
posted by baniak at 10:23 AM on July 31, 2015
posted by baniak at 10:23 AM on July 31, 2015
I would enjoy this type of article more if it were framed as "get moar enjoyment out of [cheese/shellfish/fancy vegan ingredients by doing these things" instead of containing the idea that I can "sin" against a piece of food that I bought at the store.
Ehh, that's Serious Eats for you. I've noted a whiff of snobbishness in most of their posts I've read. (Also some rather questionable advice here and there)
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:39 AM on July 31, 2015
Ehh, that's Serious Eats for you. I've noted a whiff of snobbishness in most of their posts I've read. (Also some rather questionable advice here and there)
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:39 AM on July 31, 2015
This article makes me want to bite the point off a wedge of cold brie and put it back in the fridge, plastic-wrapped.
Cheese is one of my favorite foods, but may God smite me with lactose intolerance if I ever become a cheese snob.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:12 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Cheese is one of my favorite foods, but may God smite me with lactose intolerance if I ever become a cheese snob.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:12 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'd like nothing more than to properly treat fresh mozzarella by leaving it on the counter.
But I live with cats.
I want the mozzarella to be eaten by me, not by the cats.
So into the fridge it goes.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:18 AM on July 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
But I live with cats.
I want the mozzarella to be eaten by me, not by the cats.
So into the fridge it goes.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:18 AM on July 31, 2015 [9 favorites]
I, for one, am going straight to my fridge to let my Kraft slices and pre-shredded pepper jack reach room temperature. Baby steps!
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:19 AM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:19 AM on July 31, 2015 [7 favorites]
a lot of this seems overstated. I mean, you buy these cheeses wrapped in plastic FFS.
I can understand the temperature thing for soft cheeses for sure. It can change the entire texture. But for hard cheeses, I don't see it. My fave blue stilton is every bit as delicious fresh out of the fridge as it is lukewarm.
Also yeah, they are right--don't freeze the cheese. We did that once and the results were very very bad.
posted by Hoopo at 11:23 AM on July 31, 2015
I can understand the temperature thing for soft cheeses for sure. It can change the entire texture. But for hard cheeses, I don't see it. My fave blue stilton is every bit as delicious fresh out of the fridge as it is lukewarm.
Also yeah, they are right--don't freeze the cheese. We did that once and the results were very very bad.
posted by Hoopo at 11:23 AM on July 31, 2015
let my Kraft slices and pre-shredded pepper jack reach room temperature
Not sure if this is true or not but I was once told kraft singles can be stored at room temperature but they are not because people would think it's gross
posted by Hoopo at 11:25 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not sure if this is true or not but I was once told kraft singles can be stored at room temperature but they are not because people would think it's gross
posted by Hoopo at 11:25 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd really prefer it if all the cheese I buy, even the fancy hand-sliced from a big wheel stuff from the deli, remain refrigerated until point of sale. I've worked in to many food prep jobs to trust anyone to take care of anything perishable. I assume there is some more base trust and respect for food and cuisine in France that makes that possible, but boy do we not have that here.
Not sure if this is true or not but I was once told kraft singles can be stored at room temperature but they are not because people would think it's gross
I know that that's true because my grandma does it and I've eaten plenty of it over the years. So long as it's not getting hot it'll be fine. Grandma also wasn't so hot on refrigerating milk or eggs and also we canned meat which I later learned to be hugely unsafe so maybe it's not a great point of reference though.
posted by neonrev at 11:35 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not sure if this is true or not but I was once told kraft singles can be stored at room temperature but they are not because people would think it's gross
I know that that's true because my grandma does it and I've eaten plenty of it over the years. So long as it's not getting hot it'll be fine. Grandma also wasn't so hot on refrigerating milk or eggs and also we canned meat which I later learned to be hugely unsafe so maybe it's not a great point of reference though.
posted by neonrev at 11:35 AM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'd be grateful for a San Francisco cheese shop that understands affinage.
Have you tried 24th St Cheese Shop in Noe Valley? (24th near Sanchez.) It's definitely a serious cheese shop, not at all limited to local/American cheeses, and one of their Yelp reviews complains that some of their cheeses are "too moldy."
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:49 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Have you tried 24th St Cheese Shop in Noe Valley? (24th near Sanchez.) It's definitely a serious cheese shop, not at all limited to local/American cheeses, and one of their Yelp reviews complains that some of their cheeses are "too moldy."
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 11:49 AM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Faint of Butt: "I want the mozzarella to be eaten by me, not by the cats.
So into the fridge it goes."
Dude ... The microwave
Cat's can't open that, it has saved our room-temp food from the cats many times
(The cats, they stare at it in disappointment)
posted by caution live frogs at 12:16 PM on July 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
So into the fridge it goes."
Dude ... The microwave
Cat's can't open that, it has saved our room-temp food from the cats many times
(The cats, they stare at it in disappointment)
posted by caution live frogs at 12:16 PM on July 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
Faint of Butt: I'd like nothing more than to properly treat fresh mozzarella by leaving it on the counter.
But I live with cats.
Oh yea. My cat Beatrix will eat any unattended cheese. Also any attended cheese. Actually, she will also eat the cheese wrapper. In fact, she may eat the wrapper first because, in her mind, that's "the best part."
The deal with mozzarella is that time is really not your friend. As soon as it's made it starts to decline in quality. Day-old, refrigerated "fresh" mozzarella is so different from hours-old, never-refrigerated mozzarella that they might as well be called by different names. Once mozzarella tightens up to the point where it can be cut into clean slices, it's really not the same product. So, for me, it's a matter of buying fresh and eating it all before I would need to refrigerate it (no one is suggesting to leave mozzarella out on the counter for 24 hours . . . I hope!). More and more places are getting hip to this. In NYC, for example, stores that produce their own mozzarella such as Fairway, and stores that source locally-made fresh mozzarella daily such as Whole Foods don't put them in refrigerated cases but rather set them out on trays of ice where they will stay cool but won't get cold. These cheeses aren't nearly as good as biting into a knot that was literally spun while you waited at Casa della Mozzarella on Arthur Avenue. But they're clearly related, still having some of the shaggy juiciness that distinguishes the product at its peak. I'm not saying that there aren't things to like about cold refrigerated fresh mozzarella. Like Frowner says, it can be fresh-tasting and have a good texture. But it's not something I'd take a 60 minute subway ride to have, whereas the truly fresh stuff is. I may buy plenty of things when I go up to Arthur Avenue in the Bronx a few times a year, but the reason I go is for the mozzarella.
posted by slkinsey at 12:19 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
But I live with cats.
Oh yea. My cat Beatrix will eat any unattended cheese. Also any attended cheese. Actually, she will also eat the cheese wrapper. In fact, she may eat the wrapper first because, in her mind, that's "the best part."
The deal with mozzarella is that time is really not your friend. As soon as it's made it starts to decline in quality. Day-old, refrigerated "fresh" mozzarella is so different from hours-old, never-refrigerated mozzarella that they might as well be called by different names. Once mozzarella tightens up to the point where it can be cut into clean slices, it's really not the same product. So, for me, it's a matter of buying fresh and eating it all before I would need to refrigerate it (no one is suggesting to leave mozzarella out on the counter for 24 hours . . . I hope!). More and more places are getting hip to this. In NYC, for example, stores that produce their own mozzarella such as Fairway, and stores that source locally-made fresh mozzarella daily such as Whole Foods don't put them in refrigerated cases but rather set them out on trays of ice where they will stay cool but won't get cold. These cheeses aren't nearly as good as biting into a knot that was literally spun while you waited at Casa della Mozzarella on Arthur Avenue. But they're clearly related, still having some of the shaggy juiciness that distinguishes the product at its peak. I'm not saying that there aren't things to like about cold refrigerated fresh mozzarella. Like Frowner says, it can be fresh-tasting and have a good texture. But it's not something I'd take a 60 minute subway ride to have, whereas the truly fresh stuff is. I may buy plenty of things when I go up to Arthur Avenue in the Bronx a few times a year, but the reason I go is for the mozzarella.
posted by slkinsey at 12:19 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
But for hard cheeses, I don't see it. My fave blue stilton is every bit as delicious fresh out of the fridge as it is lukewarm.
Since when is ripe stilton (blue or white) hard?
Ideal temperature may vary with specific cheese — room temperature* seems like it might be too high for some. Cool but not cold, say 55-65, sounds like a decent place for many cheeses: warm enough for full flavour, not so warm they start to go oily.
If forced to choose between cats or decent cheese, I’m afraid it would have to be the cheese.
*I’m presuming this means 72F, though in my un-airconditioned house it is currently closer to 86F
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 12:22 PM on July 31, 2015
Since when is ripe stilton (blue or white) hard?
Ideal temperature may vary with specific cheese — room temperature* seems like it might be too high for some. Cool but not cold, say 55-65, sounds like a decent place for many cheeses: warm enough for full flavour, not so warm they start to go oily.
If forced to choose between cats or decent cheese, I’m afraid it would have to be the cheese.
*I’m presuming this means 72F, though in my un-airconditioned house it is currently closer to 86F
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 12:22 PM on July 31, 2015
2. Thou shalt not return unwrapped or partially exposed cheese to the fridge
So... you throw it away?
posted by smackfu at 1:09 PM on July 31, 2015
So... you throw it away?
posted by smackfu at 1:09 PM on July 31, 2015
Well I've heard that you should only eat mozzarella that you've bought direct from an organic farm in a small village in Campania, preferably in the morning, and that you absolutely must eat it before lunch. Otherwise it's just not the same - though I guess that's not really practical for the seven billion of us who don't live in Campania.
I like the idea of soaking store-bought mozzarella in salted milk, and am looking forward to trying it. I just wish that this author had written an article on 'great ways to enjoy cheese' rather than make a list of rules, many of them silly.
In truth, I have a simple rule: if I've seen them do it in France or Italy, I'm going to assume it's ok. It's my own style of snobbery, I guess. And people in those countries routinely commit these sins. I will defy anyone from Brooklyn or San Francisco (it's always Brooklyn or San Francisco) who promote some artificially correct way to eat.
posted by kanewai at 1:10 PM on July 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
I like the idea of soaking store-bought mozzarella in salted milk, and am looking forward to trying it. I just wish that this author had written an article on 'great ways to enjoy cheese' rather than make a list of rules, many of them silly.
In truth, I have a simple rule: if I've seen them do it in France or Italy, I'm going to assume it's ok. It's my own style of snobbery, I guess. And people in those countries routinely commit these sins. I will defy anyone from Brooklyn or San Francisco (it's always Brooklyn or San Francisco) who promote some artificially correct way to eat.
posted by kanewai at 1:10 PM on July 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
My Kitchen has been around 90F all this week, I'm not sure that I'd want to eat cheese at that temperature.
posted by octothorpe at 1:41 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 1:41 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I love a little blue or other "exotic" cheese. But woo is some of that stuff is expensive. So cheep cheese lovers secret: if there's a gourmet cheese store you pass by, a quick duck through for samples can be just enough.
As the co-owner of a cheese shop, may I cheerfully suggest you go straight to hell?
2. Thou shalt not return unwrapped or partially exposed cheese to the fridge
No, you wrap it properly.
posted by lumpenprole at 1:48 PM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
As the co-owner of a cheese shop, may I cheerfully suggest you go straight to hell?
2. Thou shalt not return unwrapped or partially exposed cheese to the fridge
No, you wrap it properly.
posted by lumpenprole at 1:48 PM on July 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
All I know is that this thread compelled me to hit up the fancy cheese bar for lunch, and I am enjoying a really nice Drunken Goat with some raspberries.
While there I encountered a fellow who was buying soft white cheddar and telling the cheese monger that he didn't understand stinky cheeses and that people who liked them had "terrible palates" and I didn't bean him with a big smelly round of Parmesan but I really wanted to.
posted by angeline at 2:08 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
While there I encountered a fellow who was buying soft white cheddar and telling the cheese monger that he didn't understand stinky cheeses and that people who liked them had "terrible palates" and I didn't bean him with a big smelly round of Parmesan but I really wanted to.
posted by angeline at 2:08 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Ah, Parmesan - The most deadly of all cheeses.
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:41 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:41 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
They were some fairly large and pungent wheels, honestly.
posted by angeline at 2:52 PM on July 31, 2015
posted by angeline at 2:52 PM on July 31, 2015
I can understand the temperature thing for soft cheeses for sure. It can change the entire texture. But for hard cheeses, I don't see it. My fave blue stilton is every bit as delicious fresh out of the fridge as it is lukewarm.
I definitely can't see leaving stilton out - I think it would probably come to life and start to take over the kitchen. But hard cheeses like cheddar, manchego, parmesan, and anything stinky & French really do acquire a whole new dimension if they are left out. And I mean permanently left out, not brought to room temperature an hour before serving.
I find that storing cheese in a piece of tupperware is enough to thwart my cats and yet allow the cheese to breathe. Though this does make the cheese smell and taste much more pungent; I don't think everyone would appreciate the result.
I'm not sure if the serving them warm or chilled would make a difference with the regular cheeses you find at the grocery store. I like 'em well enough, but I suspect they are so processed that there is nothing left alive in them that needs to breathe.
posted by kanewai at 2:59 PM on July 31, 2015
I definitely can't see leaving stilton out - I think it would probably come to life and start to take over the kitchen. But hard cheeses like cheddar, manchego, parmesan, and anything stinky & French really do acquire a whole new dimension if they are left out. And I mean permanently left out, not brought to room temperature an hour before serving.
I find that storing cheese in a piece of tupperware is enough to thwart my cats and yet allow the cheese to breathe. Though this does make the cheese smell and taste much more pungent; I don't think everyone would appreciate the result.
I'm not sure if the serving them warm or chilled would make a difference with the regular cheeses you find at the grocery store. I like 'em well enough, but I suspect they are so processed that there is nothing left alive in them that needs to breathe.
posted by kanewai at 2:59 PM on July 31, 2015
Cheese!
This is my job. Part of it is tasting and dealing with quality both sensory and food safety wise. This article is pretty much right on with what it recommends. The full flavour spectrum comes through much better when it's room temperature, though with harder cheeses, like cheddar, it's not as big a difference as with softer cheeses. With strong tasting cheeses regardless of temperature you'll get the flavour zing but you won't get the full zing.
We make and sell cheese to distributors and stores plus we have our own retail outlet. From a food safety perspective all of our cheese must be refrigerated until sold with the exception of fresh curd. That can be left out for up to 48 hours with no issue. As soon as it's refrigerated it's not technically considered fresh any more. Like fresh mozzarella refrigeration really changes both the flavour and texture. Refrigerated curd doesn't squeak though some of the squeak can be brought back with a short shot in the microwave.
Curd can be left out longer. It used to be 72 hours but it was cut back just to be safe. I've left it on the counter for days with no issue. The same could happen with other cheese especially hard cheese. If your hard cheese gets mold on it just cut it off, it's safe to eat. Soft cheeses not so much as the mold tendrils that you can't see go further into the cheese because it's soft.
We do age cheddars and frankly if most people saw what a lot of blocks of cheddar that's been aging for 5-10 years looked like before cutting they would be disgusted. First time I saw it I freaked out. Covered in mold, crusty lactic crystal crusts and various levels of smelly liquid. If you didn't know you'd think garbage and that it's gone bad but cheese chemistry is super fascinating. As long as it's gone into storage without any of the nasties that are always tested for and kept cool no bad stuff develops. And as mentioned in the article a truely authentically aged cheese is like wine. Each batch ends up with it's own flavour somewhere on the sweet to acid scale. I say authentic because there are ways using different cultures and other tricks to mimic the taste of an older cheese (like old and xtra old) that you would find in grocery stores without it being that old. Once you've eaten a lot of actually aged cheese it's not hard to tell the difference.
I should probably stop now. I could go on and on about this stuff. Cheese making is both science and art and it's pretty neat to see how and ordinary truck of milk can be transformed into so many different varieties and taste experiences.
If anyone has any cheese questions feel free to ask. I don't mind talking about cheese!
posted by Jalliah at 3:01 PM on July 31, 2015 [27 favorites]
This is my job. Part of it is tasting and dealing with quality both sensory and food safety wise. This article is pretty much right on with what it recommends. The full flavour spectrum comes through much better when it's room temperature, though with harder cheeses, like cheddar, it's not as big a difference as with softer cheeses. With strong tasting cheeses regardless of temperature you'll get the flavour zing but you won't get the full zing.
We make and sell cheese to distributors and stores plus we have our own retail outlet. From a food safety perspective all of our cheese must be refrigerated until sold with the exception of fresh curd. That can be left out for up to 48 hours with no issue. As soon as it's refrigerated it's not technically considered fresh any more. Like fresh mozzarella refrigeration really changes both the flavour and texture. Refrigerated curd doesn't squeak though some of the squeak can be brought back with a short shot in the microwave.
Curd can be left out longer. It used to be 72 hours but it was cut back just to be safe. I've left it on the counter for days with no issue. The same could happen with other cheese especially hard cheese. If your hard cheese gets mold on it just cut it off, it's safe to eat. Soft cheeses not so much as the mold tendrils that you can't see go further into the cheese because it's soft.
We do age cheddars and frankly if most people saw what a lot of blocks of cheddar that's been aging for 5-10 years looked like before cutting they would be disgusted. First time I saw it I freaked out. Covered in mold, crusty lactic crystal crusts and various levels of smelly liquid. If you didn't know you'd think garbage and that it's gone bad but cheese chemistry is super fascinating. As long as it's gone into storage without any of the nasties that are always tested for and kept cool no bad stuff develops. And as mentioned in the article a truely authentically aged cheese is like wine. Each batch ends up with it's own flavour somewhere on the sweet to acid scale. I say authentic because there are ways using different cultures and other tricks to mimic the taste of an older cheese (like old and xtra old) that you would find in grocery stores without it being that old. Once you've eaten a lot of actually aged cheese it's not hard to tell the difference.
I should probably stop now. I could go on and on about this stuff. Cheese making is both science and art and it's pretty neat to see how and ordinary truck of milk can be transformed into so many different varieties and taste experiences.
If anyone has any cheese questions feel free to ask. I don't mind talking about cheese!
posted by Jalliah at 3:01 PM on July 31, 2015 [27 favorites]
"Cheese is a living, breathing thing, and without proper oxygen, it will suffocate,"
Seriously what the fuck are you talking about? There are bacteria in cheese yes. But are you saying that you can kill bacteria with clingfilm? Because I think you should test that with some month old sausages and then report back.
posted by howfar at 3:40 PM on July 31, 2015
Seriously what the fuck are you talking about? There are bacteria in cheese yes. But are you saying that you can kill bacteria with clingfilm? Because I think you should test that with some month old sausages and then report back.
posted by howfar at 3:40 PM on July 31, 2015
In relation to serving at "room temperature", I personally regard 18°c as being a good starting point. Modern rooms are usually a lot hotter than rooms used to be, and allowing your cheese to come up that far will often give you something a bit greasy and unbalanced in flavour. I find the same thing is often true with red wine.
posted by howfar at 3:48 PM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by howfar at 3:48 PM on July 31, 2015 [3 favorites]
Seriously what the fuck are you talking about? There are bacteria in cheese yes. But are you saying that you can kill bacteria with clingfilm? Because I think you should test that with some month old sausages and then report back.
Well, as you may or may not know but should if you think about it for five minutes, there are many, many, many, many different kinds of bacteria. The kind that continues aging in cheese requires oxygen. The 'cheese is a living thing' is a a common saying that obviously isn't true, but you need to treat it kind of like a plant, so it's a useful saying.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:14 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, as you may or may not know but should if you think about it for five minutes, there are many, many, many, many different kinds of bacteria. The kind that continues aging in cheese requires oxygen. The 'cheese is a living thing' is a a common saying that obviously isn't true, but you need to treat it kind of like a plant, so it's a useful saying.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:14 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, as you may or may not know but should if you think about it for five minutes, there are many, many, many, many different kinds of bacteria. The kind that continues aging in cheese requires oxygen.
Are you sure that is true? Have you looked it up, or did you just think about it? It is a long time since I gained any qualifications in biology, but it looks to me like lactobacilli are not typically obligate aerobes, so I think the foodies might be fairly wide of the mark on this point.
But, in any case, people aren't aging cheese in their fridges. They're storing it for a short time before eating. A fridge is a terrible environment for aging cheese, given its excessive aridity, low temperature and potential for contamination. The thing to do is buy it from a good source in the state you want to eat it in, and then eat it before it deteriorates.
On a personal level, I've never observed plastic wrap, cheese dish, tin foil or wax paper making a blind bit of difference to the quality of a cheese that's been stored for an appropriate period and allowed to come up to a decent temperature before serving. Maybe a double blind study is called for, but my money would be firmly on the "it makes no difference" possibility.
Wax paper looks nice but usually ends up coming unwrapped and drying out the cheese. I personally go with zip lock bags for convenience. I like to be able to see which cheese I'm taking out before I unwrap it.
posted by howfar at 6:42 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Are you sure that is true? Have you looked it up, or did you just think about it? It is a long time since I gained any qualifications in biology, but it looks to me like lactobacilli are not typically obligate aerobes, so I think the foodies might be fairly wide of the mark on this point.
But, in any case, people aren't aging cheese in their fridges. They're storing it for a short time before eating. A fridge is a terrible environment for aging cheese, given its excessive aridity, low temperature and potential for contamination. The thing to do is buy it from a good source in the state you want to eat it in, and then eat it before it deteriorates.
On a personal level, I've never observed plastic wrap, cheese dish, tin foil or wax paper making a blind bit of difference to the quality of a cheese that's been stored for an appropriate period and allowed to come up to a decent temperature before serving. Maybe a double blind study is called for, but my money would be firmly on the "it makes no difference" possibility.
Wax paper looks nice but usually ends up coming unwrapped and drying out the cheese. I personally go with zip lock bags for convenience. I like to be able to see which cheese I'm taking out before I unwrap it.
posted by howfar at 6:42 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not sure if this is true or not but I was once told kraft singles can be stored at room temperature but they are not because people would think it's gross
Given that hunks of Kraft Velveeta, which is pretty much the same stuff, sit on shelves next to Ro-Tel in the canned food section, you are probably right. Which also shows Velveeta is a lot more sophisticated than people give it credit for, as is Cheese Whiz.
posted by TedW at 7:09 PM on July 31, 2015
While there I encountered a fellow who was buying soft white cheddar and telling the cheese monger that he didn't understand stinky cheeses and that people who liked them had "terrible palates" and I didn't bean him with a big smelly round of Parmesan but I really wanted to.
Stinky cheese makes me queasy but announcing that loudly in a cheese shop is just plain bad manners. Cheese shops are wonderful places, even for a heathen like myself who won't eat the pungent varieties.
I agree with the comments above that "ways to enjoy cheese more!" would be much more awesome than firmly worded rules.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:58 PM on July 31, 2015
Stinky cheese makes me queasy but announcing that loudly in a cheese shop is just plain bad manners. Cheese shops are wonderful places, even for a heathen like myself who won't eat the pungent varieties.
I agree with the comments above that "ways to enjoy cheese more!" would be much more awesome than firmly worded rules.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:58 PM on July 31, 2015
It's a writing conceit meant to be humorous and lighthearted - not to be taken as literal admonishment. At least, that's how it read to me.
Re: moz. I've been enjoying "fresh" mozzarella slices straight from the fridge this week, so I was stunned by the paragraph on keeping it room temperature. Always learning more and more about cheeses (and coffee and chocolate and beer...); one of the delights in reading this sort of thing.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 8:20 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Re: moz. I've been enjoying "fresh" mozzarella slices straight from the fridge this week, so I was stunned by the paragraph on keeping it room temperature. Always learning more and more about cheeses (and coffee and chocolate and beer...); one of the delights in reading this sort of thing.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 8:20 PM on July 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Always learning more and more about cheeses (and coffee and chocolate and beer...)
Just accept the idea that You're Never Going To Do It Right No Matter How Hard You Try, and it becomes easier to read those sorts of things.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:32 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Just accept the idea that You're Never Going To Do It Right No Matter How Hard You Try, and it becomes easier to read those sorts of things.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:32 PM on July 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Cheese left out in our house quickly becomes what would be more accurately called 'bait.'
posted by metagnathous at 12:34 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by metagnathous at 12:34 AM on August 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
So sometimes we use chunks of colby jack or velveeta when catfishing. They love it, but you know what? They don't want it from the fridge, they want it sweating and soft. You gotta leave it out overnight.
I never knew catfishes were such connoisseurs!
You know what else loves to eat cheese? Snapping turtles. Greatest hazard to the causal cheese fisherman. They love cheese and hate being caught, and thus hate you.
posted by neonrev at 10:08 AM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I never knew catfishes were such connoisseurs!
You know what else loves to eat cheese? Snapping turtles. Greatest hazard to the causal cheese fisherman. They love cheese and hate being caught, and thus hate you.
posted by neonrev at 10:08 AM on August 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
So sometimes we use chunks of colby jack or velveeta when catfishing. They love it, but you know what? They don't want it from the fridge, they want it sweating and soft. You gotta leave it out overnight.
You know, given the numerous cat/cheese discussions upthread, I quite honestly tried to parse "catfishing" as the art of extracting cats from behind the couch, and other small cramped spaces, using fishing line and cheese lures.
Greatest hazard to the causal cheese fisherman.
I'm actually much more curious about hazards to the acausal cheese fisherman. Temporal paradoxes seem like the least of it.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 9:04 AM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
You know, given the numerous cat/cheese discussions upthread, I quite honestly tried to parse "catfishing" as the art of extracting cats from behind the couch, and other small cramped spaces, using fishing line and cheese lures.
Greatest hazard to the causal cheese fisherman.
I'm actually much more curious about hazards to the acausal cheese fisherman. Temporal paradoxes seem like the least of it.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 9:04 AM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Are you sure that is true? Have you looked it up, or did you just think about it?
Well, I didn't look it up, but this is what cheese makers tell me. Admittedly, I'm not a biologist of any stripe, but figured they know what they're talking about.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:53 AM on August 3, 2015
Well, I didn't look it up, but this is what cheese makers tell me. Admittedly, I'm not a biologist of any stripe, but figured they know what they're talking about.
posted by lumpenprole at 11:53 AM on August 3, 2015
Covered in mold, crusty lactic crystal crusts and various levels of smelly liquid.
Mmmm, cheeese.
The chocolate and cheese gift shop in Brussels airport has the cheese by the door. I walked past, thinking, This airport has something wrong with it's drains.
posted by glasseyes at 10:54 AM on August 4, 2015
Mmmm, cheeese.
The chocolate and cheese gift shop in Brussels airport has the cheese by the door. I walked past, thinking, This airport has something wrong with it's drains.
posted by glasseyes at 10:54 AM on August 4, 2015
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Thou shalt not talk about "bleu cheese". "Blue cheese", fine. "Fromage bleu", fine.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:07 AM on July 31, 2015 [9 favorites]