a guy who’s giving 150 percent, and yet you’re not sure if he means it
August 2, 2015 7:08 PM Subscribe
"I’m not here, however, to adjudicate Cruise’s religious views or mental health or even, really, his public image, which seems to be a complicated one. I’m here to say: It’s time to start liking Tom Cruise, movie star and actor, again." - Bilge Ebiri, Vulture
If you have not seen Jack Reacher, I want to reiterate something from the link in the FPP: The villain is Werner Herzog. It's amazing. The movie is a pitch perfect adaptation of the airport-reading technothriller it is adapting. There were lines of dialogue that would sound completely stupid spoken in real life that somehow worked in the movie.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
He's really good at picking movies to be in, or really good at recognizing talent, or something like that. I like nearly all his movies, but not because he's in them. He just somehow manages to put himself only in good movies.
posted by painquale at 7:17 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by painquale at 7:17 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I also love Jack Reacher. He's always been a sharp writer, but McQuarrie is turning into a hell of a good director.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:19 PM on August 2, 2015
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:19 PM on August 2, 2015
Edge of Tomorrow was great. Lots of Tom Cruise movies are great. But if I had to say what's shifting between now and the Tom Cruise heyday, honestly, it's that...Tom Cruise isn't hot. Like, he's not sexually attractive to me anymore. I think it's a combination of all the Oprah/Scientology stuff and the fact that he used to be really dependent on boyish charm, which is harder to pull off in your 50s. So now, if a Tom Cruise movie gets rave reviews and it's in a genre I otherwise enjoy, I'll totally go. But if the movie seems like it's dependent on his charisma, like a rom com, I probably won't. A movie with Chris Hemsworth in it? Yes, indeed I will.
I say this not to call attention to my shallowness, but because it's kind of mindblowing that the author doesn't even mention that as a reason why women might be turning away in droves. It's like, imagine if the genders in this situation were reversed. Where's the think piece about why Julia Roberts isn't opening 200 million dollar rom coms anymore?
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:20 PM on August 2, 2015 [71 favorites]
I say this not to call attention to my shallowness, but because it's kind of mindblowing that the author doesn't even mention that as a reason why women might be turning away in droves. It's like, imagine if the genders in this situation were reversed. Where's the think piece about why Julia Roberts isn't opening 200 million dollar rom coms anymore?
posted by pretentious illiterate at 7:20 PM on August 2, 2015 [71 favorites]
Tom Cruise and Leonardo Dicaprio are two actors that I always thought I disliked until I went through their bodies of work and realized that I more or less love every movie they have ever made.
posted by Literaryhero at 7:21 PM on August 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
posted by Literaryhero at 7:21 PM on August 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
Elementary Penguin> The movie is a pitch perfect adaptation of the airport-reading technothriller it is adapting.
It's only pitch perfect to the extent that every time the movie diverged from One Shot, it was an improvement. I mean every time and in every way.
But yeah, I also enjoyed the crap out of that movie, and probably saw it 5 times before Netflix yanked it from Instant.
posted by UrineSoakedRube at 7:23 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's only pitch perfect to the extent that every time the movie diverged from One Shot, it was an improvement. I mean every time and in every way.
But yeah, I also enjoyed the crap out of that movie, and probably saw it 5 times before Netflix yanked it from Instant.
posted by UrineSoakedRube at 7:23 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tom Cruise and Leo DiCaprio are talented actors, but the talent was always disguised by their star power. Will Smith is suffering a pretty serious fall from A-lister grace as well, but that's deserved. He's an awful actor.
posted by painquale at 7:23 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by painquale at 7:23 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Tropic Thunder is the best tom cruise movie
those hands
those terrible, hairy hands
posted by Sebmojo at 7:28 PM on August 2, 2015 [28 favorites]
those hands
those terrible, hairy hands
posted by Sebmojo at 7:28 PM on August 2, 2015 [28 favorites]
A Few Good Men. Not even mentioned in the article.
posted by AugustWest at 7:31 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 7:31 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Eponysterical bit of writing there, Bilge!
posted by barnacles at 7:32 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by barnacles at 7:32 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Edge of Tomorrow was great.
But no.
At best Cruise may be tolerated.
posted by Artw at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
But no.
At best Cruise may be tolerated.
posted by Artw at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Seeing a Tom Cruise movie amounts to financially supporting scientology and sorry, but no.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015 [56 favorites]
posted by LastOfHisKind at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015 [56 favorites]
It's only pitch perfect to the extent that every time the movie diverged from One Shot, it was an improvement. I mean every time and in every way.
I didn't mean it was a perfect adaptation of the book (I've never read it). I just meant it had all the weird tonal quirks of the technothriller.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015
I didn't mean it was a perfect adaptation of the book (I've never read it). I just meant it had all the weird tonal quirks of the technothriller.
posted by Elementary Penguin at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015
It's been "trendy" to dislike Tom Cruise for sooo long. And I've honestly never really understood why. I sometimes wonder, given all of the money and media oomph in Hollywood, if people sometimes fund private hate campaigns against people they don't like for some reason. Like: Cruise once cut in front of someone in the buffet line, and that person has been sore enough ever since to drop a few hundred thousand dollars a year on badmouthing TC. It's probably the same person who won't let the entire Richard Gere / gerbil thing die.
But Tom Cruise: he's an actor, and I don't give a shit about his screwball religion or his sexuality or political views. But as an actor, I think he's better than many, and I enjoyed him enough in Edge of Tomorrow to forgive him whatever minor acting sins he's committed in the past.
posted by doctor tough love at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
But Tom Cruise: he's an actor, and I don't give a shit about his screwball religion or his sexuality or political views. But as an actor, I think he's better than many, and I enjoyed him enough in Edge of Tomorrow to forgive him whatever minor acting sins he's committed in the past.
posted by doctor tough love at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
It helps that he at least starts out a bit despicable in it rather than being all "hey, look at me, I'm the coolest most self actualised guy there is" for the entire running time.
posted by Artw at 7:35 PM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:35 PM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Two hour audio interview with Cruise and McQuarrie.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:36 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 7:36 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Seeing a Tom Cruise movie amounts to financially supporting scientology and sorry, but no.
Exactly. I've always loved him as an actor, but the guy berated Brooke Shields for her post-partum depression, saying she should have managed it with vitamins. Scientology is evil and abusive, Cruise has absolutely used his wealth to further Scientology's agenda and image, and I'm not going to contribute financially to that.
posted by jaguar at 7:39 PM on August 2, 2015 [71 favorites]
Exactly. I've always loved him as an actor, but the guy berated Brooke Shields for her post-partum depression, saying she should have managed it with vitamins. Scientology is evil and abusive, Cruise has absolutely used his wealth to further Scientology's agenda and image, and I'm not going to contribute financially to that.
posted by jaguar at 7:39 PM on August 2, 2015 [71 favorites]
... Which is to say, I think the article seriously glosses over why Tom Cruise is a problematic human being, and how supporting him as an actor is still supporting him as a human being.
posted by jaguar at 7:40 PM on August 2, 2015 [29 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 7:40 PM on August 2, 2015 [29 favorites]
There seems to be a huge concerted media push going on right now to rehabilitate Tom Cruise's image. Somebody has dropped big coin with a major PR firm I think. This is more than just Mission Impossible promotion.
posted by srboisvert at 7:40 PM on August 2, 2015 [94 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 7:40 PM on August 2, 2015 [94 favorites]
Born of the Fourth of July is still probably Cruise's best flick, as performer and works well as a counter-weight to Jerry Maguire. One of those actors who gives himself over to it completely, body and soul, even if it isn't always what the material requires. Personal fave of his is still Minority Report, though.
Scientology & losing family because of it, is the albatross around the neck, though.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 7:42 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Scientology & losing family because of it, is the albatross around the neck, though.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 7:42 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Elementary Penguin> I didn't mean it was a perfect adaptation of the book (I've never read it). I just meant it had all the weird tonal quirks of the technothriller.
That it did, fair enough. I'd note that One Shot wasn't a good book that needed to be changed significantly to make a good movie; it was a crappy book (even by the standards of Jack Reacher novels) that was adjusted skillfully to make for a good movie.
posted by UrineSoakedRube at 7:42 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
That it did, fair enough. I'd note that One Shot wasn't a good book that needed to be changed significantly to make a good movie; it was a crappy book (even by the standards of Jack Reacher novels) that was adjusted skillfully to make for a good movie.
posted by UrineSoakedRube at 7:42 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
If Tom Cruise wants to rehabilitate his image at least as far as I'm concerned, he can save himself a lot of money on PR firms and just loudly publicly disavow the Church of Scientology. It's long past time.
posted by mstokes650 at 7:49 PM on August 2, 2015 [41 favorites]
posted by mstokes650 at 7:49 PM on August 2, 2015 [41 favorites]
Do we have to care about Cruise's image in order to appreciate his movies? It's not like I have to join Scientology to watch him blow away alien graboids.
posted by Justinian at 7:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 7:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
.....and contribute a fortune to anti scientology efforts, AT A MINIMUM
posted by lalochezia at 7:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 7:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
>“How YouTube and Internet Journalism Destroyed Tom Cruise, Our Last Real Movie Star"
Really, someone wrote something with that title? Is destroying Our Last Movie Star supposed to be equivalent to burning down the last tree in the world or killing the last Spotted Ostrich or something? Am I supposed to be mad that those awful plebeians and their OPINIONS made Tom Cruise stop being a movie star (except in so far as that he's still staggeringly rich, famous, probably able to have sex with most people in the world just by asking, and living a lifestyle that would embarrass most of history's emperors)?
Yep--I peeked at that link and I was right, it's gonna make me mad. It's about how everybody thinks Tom Cruise is a fruitcake because he jumped on Oprah's couch and people took it out of context.
Everybody thinks Tom Cruise is a fruitcake because he has raisins for eyes. But his movies are surprisingly decent. These are uncontroversial ideas, most people can hold both of them in their heads at the same time, and I'm not sure why we need these articles.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:53 PM on August 2, 2015 [20 favorites]
Really, someone wrote something with that title? Is destroying Our Last Movie Star supposed to be equivalent to burning down the last tree in the world or killing the last Spotted Ostrich or something? Am I supposed to be mad that those awful plebeians and their OPINIONS made Tom Cruise stop being a movie star (except in so far as that he's still staggeringly rich, famous, probably able to have sex with most people in the world just by asking, and living a lifestyle that would embarrass most of history's emperors)?
Yep--I peeked at that link and I was right, it's gonna make me mad. It's about how everybody thinks Tom Cruise is a fruitcake because he jumped on Oprah's couch and people took it out of context.
Everybody thinks Tom Cruise is a fruitcake because he has raisins for eyes. But his movies are surprisingly decent. These are uncontroversial ideas, most people can hold both of them in their heads at the same time, and I'm not sure why we need these articles.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 7:53 PM on August 2, 2015 [20 favorites]
Do we have to care about Cruise's image in order to appreciate his movies? It's not like I have to join Scientology to watch him blow away alien graboids.
Box office revenue helps determine, and pay, Cruise's salary. Which he uses to support Scientology. Yes, we should care.
posted by jaguar at 7:53 PM on August 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
Box office revenue helps determine, and pay, Cruise's salary. Which he uses to support Scientology. Yes, we should care.
posted by jaguar at 7:53 PM on August 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
I never held the couch jumping thing against him. I mean, if we are all honest, we've done weirder things. He just happened to do it on TV. The anti-meds thing did turn me off, as well as the scientology connections.
However, I will watch almost any movie with him in it because he's just a really good actor. He plays characters that you care about, and they are often pretty entertaining and compelling. I understand that for a lot of people, it's hard to separate art from a person's real life persona when they act unbecomingly, but for some reason I'm able to do that with him, so I'll keep watching his movies. I totally get it that some people cannot, as there are people I have a hard time separating from their art, as well.
I'm not sure what the different variables are, but I'm pretty sure that it's an issue of accepting that people can be weird vs. not wanting to support people who do more social harm than I'm willing to accept outside of their art contributions. Cruise falls into the well-intentioned albeit misdirected area of my awareness that even if you could argue some harm from his errant ideas (although I have a hard time believing that enough people take scientology seriously enough to see it as an impending social concern, outside of their lawsuits and such, which are admittedly troubling), it's not enough for me to not want him doing his art any more. Part of me suspects he's pretty much blackmailed into staying with scientology these days rather than really believing in it whole-heartedly. But I could be wrong about that.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
However, I will watch almost any movie with him in it because he's just a really good actor. He plays characters that you care about, and they are often pretty entertaining and compelling. I understand that for a lot of people, it's hard to separate art from a person's real life persona when they act unbecomingly, but for some reason I'm able to do that with him, so I'll keep watching his movies. I totally get it that some people cannot, as there are people I have a hard time separating from their art, as well.
I'm not sure what the different variables are, but I'm pretty sure that it's an issue of accepting that people can be weird vs. not wanting to support people who do more social harm than I'm willing to accept outside of their art contributions. Cruise falls into the well-intentioned albeit misdirected area of my awareness that even if you could argue some harm from his errant ideas (although I have a hard time believing that enough people take scientology seriously enough to see it as an impending social concern, outside of their lawsuits and such, which are admittedly troubling), it's not enough for me to not want him doing his art any more. Part of me suspects he's pretty much blackmailed into staying with scientology these days rather than really believing in it whole-heartedly. But I could be wrong about that.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I suspect the damn the engines rehabilitation effort is down to the fact that with Edge of Tomorrow his "star factor" actually worked against the movies box office chances.
posted by Artw at 7:55 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:55 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
The anti-meds thing and the Scientology thing are the same thing, by the way; Scientology is a massive propaganda force trying to discredit psychiatry and mental-health care in general. I wish the writer of this piece had done a bit more dot-connecting, because Cruise doesn't have a bunch of unrelated quirks -- almost every one of those "image" issues is due to him working to advance the ideology of Scientology.
posted by jaguar at 7:57 PM on August 2, 2015 [45 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 7:57 PM on August 2, 2015 [45 favorites]
Metafilter: Everybody thinks Tom Cruise is a fruitcake because he has raisins for eyes.
posted by JHarris at 7:57 PM on August 2, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 7:57 PM on August 2, 2015 [26 favorites]
My own theory is that Tom Cruise got diverted from his destiny as a comedic actor by Top Gun. He really plays one of the best scoundrels out there.... Risky Business, Rain Man, Tropic Thunder, Jerry Maguire, Collateral. If he just recognized and embraced the fact that his schtick works so much better when he's playing a bad guy, a character that does not in fact get the redemption arc, he'd be an indisputable national treasure.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 8:00 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by LeRoienJaune at 8:00 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
I do agree with the article - Tom Cruise chooses good movies and knows he's an arsehole, so plays with that image. Doesn't mean he's not an arsehole though.
posted by wilful at 8:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by wilful at 8:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
jaguar: "I've always loved him as an actor, but the guy berated Brooke Shields for her post-partum depression, saying she should have managed it with vitamins. "
I was not such a fan after the break from Nicole Kidman and the creepy dating of much younger co-stars, and the part where Nicole Kidman wasn't allowed to wear heels for their entire marriage because he has a thing about being short, but the part where apparently Katie Holmes had to take an acting hiatus to be his less-famous, less-tall, 20-years-younger wife who talked about how she had Tom Cruise posters on her wall as a little girl (creepy!), and then the part where Katie Holmes had to secretly line up her divorce through middlemen, secretly rent an apartment, secretly contact her parents, and drop the divorce bomb after she disappeared with their daughter -- I'm noped out. And then all the legal documents that have come out since, about how Holmes left to protect Suri from Scientology, and how Holmes has full legal and physical custody and Cruise is forbidden from teaching Suri about Scientology or taking her to Scientology stuff -- there's a REASON the court restricted just Holmes to making those decisions, and that reason is basically that Katie Holmes spent six years in a ridiculously controlling, emotionally abusive marriage where her every action was controlled by Cruise's religion. He has also fought Kidman, a "suppressive person," having any contact with their children and has allegedly actively worked to estrange them from Kidman.
So I'm noped out. I won't see anything with Cruise in it. I don't care how good an actor he is. He is a TERRIBLE PERSON and he uses his fame to manipulate and abuse women who have the misfortune to get romantically involved with him, and then uses it to attempt to manipulate and abuse his children.
Going to a Cruise movie is like voting for Donald Trump because he makes politics more entertaining. Do not encourage the terrible people.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:02 PM on August 2, 2015 [198 favorites]
I was not such a fan after the break from Nicole Kidman and the creepy dating of much younger co-stars, and the part where Nicole Kidman wasn't allowed to wear heels for their entire marriage because he has a thing about being short, but the part where apparently Katie Holmes had to take an acting hiatus to be his less-famous, less-tall, 20-years-younger wife who talked about how she had Tom Cruise posters on her wall as a little girl (creepy!), and then the part where Katie Holmes had to secretly line up her divorce through middlemen, secretly rent an apartment, secretly contact her parents, and drop the divorce bomb after she disappeared with their daughter -- I'm noped out. And then all the legal documents that have come out since, about how Holmes left to protect Suri from Scientology, and how Holmes has full legal and physical custody and Cruise is forbidden from teaching Suri about Scientology or taking her to Scientology stuff -- there's a REASON the court restricted just Holmes to making those decisions, and that reason is basically that Katie Holmes spent six years in a ridiculously controlling, emotionally abusive marriage where her every action was controlled by Cruise's religion. He has also fought Kidman, a "suppressive person," having any contact with their children and has allegedly actively worked to estrange them from Kidman.
So I'm noped out. I won't see anything with Cruise in it. I don't care how good an actor he is. He is a TERRIBLE PERSON and he uses his fame to manipulate and abuse women who have the misfortune to get romantically involved with him, and then uses it to attempt to manipulate and abuse his children.
Going to a Cruise movie is like voting for Donald Trump because he makes politics more entertaining. Do not encourage the terrible people.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:02 PM on August 2, 2015 [198 favorites]
The only unforgivable thing Tom Cruise has ever done is have that haircut from Mission Impossible 2.
posted by shakespeherian at 8:03 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 8:03 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's nothing there, and it's creepy. He's like a doll, a doll filled with mania, goofy ideas, grotesque levels of fame, and a public image that tries to hide the stink with expensive perfume.
I don't think his privacy should be held against him, though. His career launched in the 80s. That might as well be an alternate universe compared to now. He really didn't have a choice but to live his life they way he did, and how can you flip the script when you've been fanatically and famously hammering away at the exact same narrative for over thirty years?
He's trapped. I don't pity him, but I think there's a lot of baggage that holds him down, and regardless of anything else, he's easily the most disciplined star of his generation.
posted by Beholder at 8:08 PM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I don't think his privacy should be held against him, though. His career launched in the 80s. That might as well be an alternate universe compared to now. He really didn't have a choice but to live his life they way he did, and how can you flip the script when you've been fanatically and famously hammering away at the exact same narrative for over thirty years?
He's trapped. I don't pity him, but I think there's a lot of baggage that holds him down, and regardless of anything else, he's easily the most disciplined star of his generation.
posted by Beholder at 8:08 PM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
I never held the couch jumping thing against him. I mean, if we are all honest, we've done weirder things. He just happened to do it on TV.
He didn't "just happen" to be on a promotional tour for his latest movie and use his very public marriage with another Hollywood star (whom we have since learned was basically a prisoner for the entirety of that "relationship") as tabloid fodder to make himself seem more human-relatable (and to keep the rumors of his sexuality from damaging his box office earning power) and then accidentally take that way too far in a fit of pure, truest, unfiltered luuuv. At the time he did that, he had been an A-list actor for nearly half his life, constantly in the public eye. It was a calculated publicity move that backfired on him. It doesn't make him evil, but it sure as hell wasn't a thing that "just happened".
posted by Etrigan at 8:11 PM on August 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
He didn't "just happen" to be on a promotional tour for his latest movie and use his very public marriage with another Hollywood star (whom we have since learned was basically a prisoner for the entirety of that "relationship") as tabloid fodder to make himself seem more human-relatable (and to keep the rumors of his sexuality from damaging his box office earning power) and then accidentally take that way too far in a fit of pure, truest, unfiltered luuuv. At the time he did that, he had been an A-list actor for nearly half his life, constantly in the public eye. It was a calculated publicity move that backfired on him. It doesn't make him evil, but it sure as hell wasn't a thing that "just happened".
posted by Etrigan at 8:11 PM on August 2, 2015 [13 favorites]
I'm always amazed people put up with Sean Penn.
posted by Artw at 8:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [20 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [20 favorites]
I'm tired of fighting, I'm tired of fighting
Fighting for a lost cause
- Beck (a scientologist)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:20 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Fighting for a lost cause
- Beck (a scientologist)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:20 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I have to agree with a lot of the above: I really like Tom Cruise as an actor, not merely in spite of thinking he's whack in real life, but even when I hate the film itself. I'm one of the three people on Earth who thought Top Gun was an awful film in numberless ways. But he was still good in it. He has a way of committing to the material, of embedding himself in the role that I find utterly convincing.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:20 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:20 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Edge of Tomorrow was okay but it was better the first time when it was called Source Code.
I hear they're just going to do it over and over until they get the formula exactly right.
But if I had to say what's shifting between now and the Tom Cruise heyday, honestly, it's that...Tom Cruise isn't hot.
Seconded. Not that I ever consider Tom Cruise in the "hot or not" portion of my brain, but the newest Mission Impossible poster brought it home - he's not in the eye candy action star range anymore. Part of me was surprised he'd do the movie at all.
posted by solarion at 8:21 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
I hear they're just going to do it over and over until they get the formula exactly right.
But if I had to say what's shifting between now and the Tom Cruise heyday, honestly, it's that...Tom Cruise isn't hot.
Seconded. Not that I ever consider Tom Cruise in the "hot or not" portion of my brain, but the newest Mission Impossible poster brought it home - he's not in the eye candy action star range anymore. Part of me was surprised he'd do the movie at all.
posted by solarion at 8:21 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
BTW does anyone know of any real-life reason why the plane in the much-hyped stunt at the end of the first trailer for MI:RN would have big handholds welded onto the side in apparent defiance of every plausible aerodynamic principle?
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:26 PM on August 2, 2015
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:26 PM on August 2, 2015
It's been "trendy" to dislike Tom Cruise for sooo long. And I've honestly never really understood why.
- He plays an asshole in every. single. movie
- Those creepy, creepy dead eyes
- That weird manic energy. It's like he's studying humans around himself and modeling his actions on them but there's always something just off.
- Scientology
- He's one of those actors that you can't forget is an actor, acting. It's always "Tom Cruise as a NINJA," or "Tom Cruise as a COWBOY," or "Tom Cruise as a BAD FATHER."
posted by Windigo at 8:29 PM on August 2, 2015 [37 favorites]
Oblivion was okay but it was better the first time when it was called Moon.
posted by cazoo at 8:29 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by cazoo at 8:29 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Mmm, thank you, Article Writer, but I will decide when it is and is not "time to start liking Tom Cruise again," and that time was quite a while ago.
Tom Cruise is the best sprinter in movies. No one on film runs like Tom Cruise, unless maybe you include Olympic footage. All other actors look like they've maybe heard what running is supposed to look like, but none of them look like they are putting every single last ounce of their poor character's spirit and will into propelling their body through space. When "stakes" are as high as they are in Hollywood movies, you need someone who moves at Tom Cruise's pace in order to sell those stakes.
Collateral showed up on Netflix not long ago, and I'm disappointed in myself for not having watched it til just now. It's excellent, as are the apparently under-the-radar gems Jack Reacher and Edge of Tomorrow. Look, I was skeptical about Jack Reacher too, but man, it's great.
(Disclaimer: I liked Oblivion, which was interesting and good-looking for the majority of its run time.)
posted by TangoCharlie at 8:31 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tom Cruise is the best sprinter in movies. No one on film runs like Tom Cruise, unless maybe you include Olympic footage. All other actors look like they've maybe heard what running is supposed to look like, but none of them look like they are putting every single last ounce of their poor character's spirit and will into propelling their body through space. When "stakes" are as high as they are in Hollywood movies, you need someone who moves at Tom Cruise's pace in order to sell those stakes.
Collateral showed up on Netflix not long ago, and I'm disappointed in myself for not having watched it til just now. It's excellent, as are the apparently under-the-radar gems Jack Reacher and Edge of Tomorrow. Look, I was skeptical about Jack Reacher too, but man, it's great.
(Disclaimer: I liked Oblivion, which was interesting and good-looking for the majority of its run time.)
posted by TangoCharlie at 8:31 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tom Cruise is the best sprinter in movies.
If it's the running you're after, let me introduce you to Chris Evans in Captain America and Snowpiercer. Added bonus: he's not creepy.
posted by Windigo at 8:34 PM on August 2, 2015 [29 favorites]
If it's the running you're after, let me introduce you to Chris Evans in Captain America and Snowpiercer. Added bonus: he's not creepy.
posted by Windigo at 8:34 PM on August 2, 2015 [29 favorites]
The Firm was okay but it was better the first time when it was called The Flaccid.
Am I doing it right?
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:37 PM on August 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
Am I doing it right?
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:37 PM on August 2, 2015 [11 favorites]
Haha, I can't start liking him again because I never liked him. I have seen and even been entertained by some of his movies, because it's difficult not to when he has been so omnipresent, but his presence was something I just sighed and put up with.
But hey! I also strongly dislike America's other omnipresent beloved actor named Tom (Hanks) so maybe it's just me.
posted by emjaybee at 8:38 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
But hey! I also strongly dislike America's other omnipresent beloved actor named Tom (Hanks) so maybe it's just me.
posted by emjaybee at 8:38 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
I wish the writer of this piece had done a bit more dot-connecting, because Cruise doesn't have a bunch of unrelated quirks --
You're assuming that this article isn't a PR piece ultimately paid for by Tom Cruise's agent and/or the Church of Scientology.
I don't think good faith writing research had anything to do with it- it was intended to make people like Cruise again, and as such, inconvenient facts are going to be left out.
posted by happyroach at 8:40 PM on August 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
You're assuming that this article isn't a PR piece ultimately paid for by Tom Cruise's agent and/or the Church of Scientology.
I don't think good faith writing research had anything to do with it- it was intended to make people like Cruise again, and as such, inconvenient facts are going to be left out.
posted by happyroach at 8:40 PM on August 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
Edge of Tomorrow was okay but it was better the first time when it was called Source Code.
Eh? They share some similar SF tropes but they're not even remotely the same plot. I like both, but would give Edge of Tomorrow bigger thumbs up. Source Code has some frustrating problems with its dramatic pacing; that last act reveal should've had some punch to it, but the filmmakers seemed a bit too tired to give it that punch.
posted by zardoz at 8:41 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Eh? They share some similar SF tropes but they're not even remotely the same plot. I like both, but would give Edge of Tomorrow bigger thumbs up. Source Code has some frustrating problems with its dramatic pacing; that last act reveal should've had some punch to it, but the filmmakers seemed a bit too tired to give it that punch.
posted by zardoz at 8:41 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
The technology exists to enjoy Cruise's films without supporting him financially. Sometimes piracy is the best morality.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 8:41 PM on August 2, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 8:41 PM on August 2, 2015 [17 favorites]
He rings false to me. Always. Interestingly, he's more believable in movies than he is when he makes personal appearances on talk shows. He definitely gives the impression that there is no "there" there. Clearly he works super hard on all his movies. The effort is right there in your face every millisecond he's onscreen. But the best acting isn't supposed to show any effort. I blame Scientology because I feel like we've seen the same thing happen with John Travolta. He was a great, natural talent. But he isn't anymore. An actor's job is to observe and reflect the human condition and they fail because they rely on the Scientology "tech" to codify human behavior and emotions. They believe that it helps them understand themselves and others but it clearly just doesn't work. I bet if you studied every actor who took up Scientology you'd see the same erosion of believability over time. What a waste.
posted by wabbittwax at 8:42 PM on August 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by wabbittwax at 8:42 PM on August 2, 2015 [15 favorites]
I like Cruise movies, but Tom Cruise is always Tom Cruise in his movies.
posted by furtive at 8:43 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by furtive at 8:43 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
> Tom Cruise is the best sprinter in movies. No one on film runs like Tom Cruise
Tom Cruise running: a youtube playlist.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:45 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Tom Cruise running: a youtube playlist.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:45 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Ditto that he's fantastically unreal in interviews. He was on The Daily Show the other day -- fancy Jon Stewart wasting one of his last interview opportunities on him ferfuxsake -- and Stewart did him the enormous favor of not ever really letting him speak.
(Though as much as I like Stewart it must be said that he does this a lot anyway, including when it's not called for or welcome or indeed a kindness as it was here.)
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:51 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
(Though as much as I like Stewart it must be said that he does this a lot anyway, including when it's not called for or welcome or indeed a kindness as it was here.)
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:51 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think everyone else has pretty much covered it: his personal life drama is creepy and unsettling. While he's a good actor, we have a hard time forgetting about all the creepy religion/ex-wives/kid drama at this point. Unless he flees said religion and apologizes up the wazoo for buying into it, people aren't likely to get over that stuff. Once your reputation is ruined, there isn't any coming back from that most of the time unless you start reforming, a la Robert Downey r.
On a similar note, I think Gwyneth Paltrow is a good actress and I've liked her in everything I've seen her in, but don't think I'd want to deal with her in real life because she sounds pretentious as shit--but at least she's not doing anything more icky than writing a pretentious mailing list. I can forget about whatever she has going on in real life while watching her. At this point I think most of us can't do that about Tom. And yeah, supporting $cientology is a good reason to not want to see his movies at this point as well.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:51 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
On a similar note, I think Gwyneth Paltrow is a good actress and I've liked her in everything I've seen her in, but don't think I'd want to deal with her in real life because she sounds pretentious as shit--but at least she's not doing anything more icky than writing a pretentious mailing list. I can forget about whatever she has going on in real life while watching her. At this point I think most of us can't do that about Tom. And yeah, supporting $cientology is a good reason to not want to see his movies at this point as well.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:51 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
I like Cruise movies, but Tom Cruise is always Tom Cruise in his movies.
It's the same reason I have a hard time truly liking DiCaprio as an actor, or Mel Gibson (before he gave us a million other reasons) even though they're 100 times the actor Cruise is. Some actors are genuine actors, and some actors are ~movie stars~ and you can't forget it for a moment while watching them.
posted by Windigo at 8:55 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
It's the same reason I have a hard time truly liking DiCaprio as an actor, or Mel Gibson (before he gave us a million other reasons) even though they're 100 times the actor Cruise is. Some actors are genuine actors, and some actors are ~movie stars~ and you can't forget it for a moment while watching them.
posted by Windigo at 8:55 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Early Mel Gibson's a schtick of always getting beaten up in movies works a lot better than late Mel Gibson's schtick of being an utter asshole.
posted by Artw at 8:59 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:59 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Some actors are genuine actors, and some actors are ~movie stars~ and you can't forget it for a moment while watching them.
Eh, I mean it's not like Jack Nicholson or Denzel Washington or Cary Grant ever disappear into a character.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Eh, I mean it's not like Jack Nicholson or Denzel Washington or Cary Grant ever disappear into a character.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Those of you who say you shun Cruise because "if I give him money he'll give it to Scientology so no" -
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
Or the Zucker brothers works on the grounds they'd give it to right wing causes?
Or Paul Newman films, if you dislike his work with Hole In The Wall?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:07 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
Or the Zucker brothers works on the grounds they'd give it to right wing causes?
Or Paul Newman films, if you dislike his work with Hole In The Wall?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:07 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
How YouTube and Internet Journalism Destroyed Tom Cruise, Our Last Real Movie Star
I saw A Few Good Men back in '92
Sat thru Last Samurai to focus in on you
If it was dumb it didn't stop you coming thru
Oh ohhhh
They hacked the details of your Scientology
Spread it around the world with new technology
And we all saw your crazy laugh about SPs.
Oh ohhh
Katie and Kidman
Oh ohhh
What did you tell them?
Internet killed the last movie star
Internet killed the last movie star
On the web and on South Park
You can't go back, you're too bizarre
And now you're back in Mission Impossible... 5?
Or is it 6? How is this franchise still alive?
Well, I like Simon Pegg, I guess that I'll survive.
Oh ohhh
I saw first one
Oh ohhh
Why not the next one?
Internet killed the last movie star
Internet? killed? the last movie star?
We all thought we'd said au revoir
Oprah's off air yet here you are
You Tube came to break your heart
But studios don't watch that part...
posted by maryr at 9:13 PM on August 2, 2015 [33 favorites]
I saw A Few Good Men back in '92
Sat thru Last Samurai to focus in on you
If it was dumb it didn't stop you coming thru
Oh ohhhh
They hacked the details of your Scientology
Spread it around the world with new technology
And we all saw your crazy laugh about SPs.
Oh ohhh
Katie and Kidman
Oh ohhh
What did you tell them?
Internet killed the last movie star
Internet killed the last movie star
On the web and on South Park
You can't go back, you're too bizarre
And now you're back in Mission Impossible... 5?
Or is it 6? How is this franchise still alive?
Well, I like Simon Pegg, I guess that I'll survive.
Oh ohhh
I saw first one
Oh ohhh
Why not the next one?
Internet killed the last movie star
Internet? killed? the last movie star?
We all thought we'd said au revoir
Oprah's off air yet here you are
You Tube came to break your heart
But studios don't watch that part...
posted by maryr at 9:13 PM on August 2, 2015 [33 favorites]
If Tom Cruise's personal life were as opaque as other actors of his age, we'd be fitting him for a crown.
But because he speaks up for a harmful, exploitative cult, one which he earnestly believes in, he's castigated.
If you really, really hate Tom Cruise, ask yourself this: If Tom Cruise were a rah-rah Catholic, would you think more or less of him? Or would it be the same?
If you said, "more," I'd say, welcome to MeFi, Sister Catherine. Good to have you here. Remember, everyone needs a hug.
If you said, "less," then I'd know you thought someone's personal life mattered in how you thought of their artistic output, and I'd point out some terrible, terrible people that are critically acclaimed artists, many of whom you probably like.
If you said, "it'd be the same," you're a liar, because, come on, it's the Scientology. There are other actors with his skill and public profile and you don't give a shit about their preferred cults and how destructive they can be. But this guy...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
But because he speaks up for a harmful, exploitative cult, one which he earnestly believes in, he's castigated.
If you really, really hate Tom Cruise, ask yourself this: If Tom Cruise were a rah-rah Catholic, would you think more or less of him? Or would it be the same?
If you said, "more," I'd say, welcome to MeFi, Sister Catherine. Good to have you here. Remember, everyone needs a hug.
If you said, "less," then I'd know you thought someone's personal life mattered in how you thought of their artistic output, and I'd point out some terrible, terrible people that are critically acclaimed artists, many of whom you probably like.
If you said, "it'd be the same," you're a liar, because, come on, it's the Scientology. There are other actors with his skill and public profile and you don't give a shit about their preferred cults and how destructive they can be. But this guy...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:15 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
the guy berated Brooke Shields for her post-partum depression, saying she should have managed it with vitamins
Brooke Shields' response to that was that she thought it was really irresponsible for Cruise to be speaking out on a serious health issue when he had neither relevant personal experience nor medical training, and in any case she wasn't about to take medical advice from someone who believed in aliens. My respect for Shields' intelligence underwent a sudden, massive surge (I hadn't known she was a Yale graduate). I mean, how unbelievably damn good is that rejoinder? She covers all the bases and lays down a finesse burn in one sentence.
But about Cruise. I have never found him attractive at all. He's one of a handful of actors (see also: Mel Gibson, Richard Dreyfuss, Clark Gable) who repel me because they give off something I call the jerk vibe. Even when they're supposed to be playing good guys, they set my teeth on edge because they seem like such assholes. My theory is that it's because although they aren't talentless, they aren't quite good enough at acting to keep their essential natures from coming through their performance. There are also actors who have the same problem in reverse because they're nice guys who aren't the best actors and therefore can't successfully play bad guys (i.e., John Goodman). I never thought Bill Cosby was much of an actor but it turns out he was an incredibly good one who convinced millions of people that he was lovable Cliff Huxtable when he is actually a monster in real life.
posted by orange swan at 9:16 PM on August 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
Brooke Shields' response to that was that she thought it was really irresponsible for Cruise to be speaking out on a serious health issue when he had neither relevant personal experience nor medical training, and in any case she wasn't about to take medical advice from someone who believed in aliens. My respect for Shields' intelligence underwent a sudden, massive surge (I hadn't known she was a Yale graduate). I mean, how unbelievably damn good is that rejoinder? She covers all the bases and lays down a finesse burn in one sentence.
But about Cruise. I have never found him attractive at all. He's one of a handful of actors (see also: Mel Gibson, Richard Dreyfuss, Clark Gable) who repel me because they give off something I call the jerk vibe. Even when they're supposed to be playing good guys, they set my teeth on edge because they seem like such assholes. My theory is that it's because although they aren't talentless, they aren't quite good enough at acting to keep their essential natures from coming through their performance. There are also actors who have the same problem in reverse because they're nice guys who aren't the best actors and therefore can't successfully play bad guys (i.e., John Goodman). I never thought Bill Cosby was much of an actor but it turns out he was an incredibly good one who convinced millions of people that he was lovable Cliff Huxtable when he is actually a monster in real life.
posted by orange swan at 9:16 PM on August 2, 2015 [23 favorites]
After seeing the new Mission: Impossible, I can safely say that Tom Cruise is better for movies than Donald Trump is for politics (and certainly better than Trump ever would be for governance should his talent for politics prove to be stellar, which is not likely). But he's by no means the best or most appealing actor in the movie. He's a brand floating around and doing crazy stunts in it, and Alec Baldwin gets to emit pompously campy (and self-aware campy) stuff about his Ethan Hunt character and the actor playing him.
In any case, by funding his action films you're probably funding a death that will arrive before a natural one ever possibly would. I'd say the chances are 80 to 90 percent at this point. I'm not joking.
Want Cruise to die? Watch his action films in a theater.
posted by raysmj at 9:17 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
In any case, by funding his action films you're probably funding a death that will arrive before a natural one ever possibly would. I'd say the chances are 80 to 90 percent at this point. I'm not joking.
Want Cruise to die? Watch his action films in a theater.
posted by raysmj at 9:17 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Eh, I mean it's not like Jack Nicholson or Denzel Washington or Cary Grant ever disappear into a character.
Well, I'm not a huge fan of any of their acting either, for that very reason.
posted by Windigo at 9:18 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Well, I'm not a huge fan of any of their acting either, for that very reason.
posted by Windigo at 9:18 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Grantland: TOM CRUISE WEEK - Which Tom Cruise Is the Best Tom Cruise? - "Maverick? Jerry Maguire? Ethan Hunt? That delirious couch-jumper on ‘Oprah’? Vote in our bracket to determine the best Cruise that ever Cruised."
‘The Cruisecast’: Quintessential Scenes From Tom Cruise’s Filmography
Tom Cruise Week Second-Round Recap: A Salute to Lt. Daniel Kaffee
Major Tom: ‘Rogue Nation’ and the Exhilarating Masochism (and Exasperating Narcissism) of Tom Cruise
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:26 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
‘The Cruisecast’: Quintessential Scenes From Tom Cruise’s Filmography
Tom Cruise Week Second-Round Recap: A Salute to Lt. Daniel Kaffee
Acting isn’t a competition, but there is something inherently competitive about watching two people share a scene. There may not be a final score, a winner, or a loser, but in some ways the result of watching two actors face off can have more profound and long-lasting effects beyond winning and losing. It can change the way you see an actor. This is especially true for Cruise.The Making of Les Grossman: An Oral History
He hasn’t had his lunch money taken, head’s up, in a film since Philip Seymour Hoffman strapped him to a chair and put a gun to his girlfriend’s head in Mission: Impossible III.
Cruise can’t handle the contempt Hoffman has for him in this scene. I can barely handle it. It’s too real. You ever want to really shut someone down? Just say, “It’s not in Paris. Five.” The remarkable thing about this scene — the highlight of what is a largely incomprehensible movie — is how Hoffman seems to be critiquing Cruise as an actor.
Major Tom: ‘Rogue Nation’ and the Exhilarating Masochism (and Exasperating Narcissism) of Tom Cruise
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:26 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
... glosses over why Tom Cruise is a problematic human being ...
posted by jaguar at 7:40 PM on August 2
[4 favorites +] [!]
hate to break it to you, but all human beings are "problematic"
posted by jayder at 9:27 PM on August 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 7:40 PM on August 2
[4 favorites +] [!]
hate to break it to you, but all human beings are "problematic"
posted by jayder at 9:27 PM on August 2, 2015 [12 favorites]
Cruise has been in a string of winners though. MI4, Oblivion, Jack Reacher, Edge of Tomorrow, and apparently MI5 is dynamite. Collateral - Mann's last good film - was good only because of Cruise. War of the Worlds was helped immensely by Cruise. Minority Report was of course great, way back when. Tropic Thunder was stupid but it wasn't because of him. All the Missions: Impossible, really. Valkyrie was great, again mostly because of him. I love Tom Cruise even though he is a mentalist. Plus, for a guy who's, what, over 50, he still busts out some insane moves. Tom Cruise is great. I am all for Tom Cruise. He's not as good as a dog, but he's still pretty good.
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:30 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:30 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Have you people never heard of Pirate Bay? Or the damned library? You like Tom Cruise movies but don't want to support Scientology? Here you go.
posted by evilDoug at 9:30 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by evilDoug at 9:30 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Those of you who say you shun Cruise because "if I give him money he'll give it to Scientology so no" -
I do avoid giving my money to other actors and directors who are abusive assholes, yes. I won't pay to see Cosby, or Polanski, or Allen. Someone who just contributes money to other political causes might not necessarily trigger me to stop paying their salary (my innate hatred of most mainstream blockbuster movies probably covers that accidentally) but someone who actively and personally harms other human beings, yes, I will shun their artistic output.
posted by jaguar at 9:34 PM on August 2, 2015 [28 favorites]
I do avoid giving my money to other actors and directors who are abusive assholes, yes. I won't pay to see Cosby, or Polanski, or Allen. Someone who just contributes money to other political causes might not necessarily trigger me to stop paying their salary (my innate hatred of most mainstream blockbuster movies probably covers that accidentally) but someone who actively and personally harms other human beings, yes, I will shun their artistic output.
posted by jaguar at 9:34 PM on August 2, 2015 [28 favorites]
Magnolia, very well played. Risky Business, I really don't care what he eats for breakfast.
posted by Oyéah at 9:42 PM on August 2, 2015
posted by Oyéah at 9:42 PM on August 2, 2015
If you really, really hate Tom Cruise, ask yourself this: If Tom Cruise were a rah-rah Catholic, would you think more or less of him? Or would it be the same?
Yes, I am saying that Scientology is beyond the pale. Cruise isn't a Polanski level creep, and he's done fewer publicly and objectively bad things than Mel (so there are shades of hypercatholicism meets asshole that'd meet or exceed my distaste for Cruise the Scientologist. But it's one of those things that takes effort. Scientology makes me believe in the difference between cult and not cult.
posted by wotsac at 9:43 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yes, I am saying that Scientology is beyond the pale. Cruise isn't a Polanski level creep, and he's done fewer publicly and objectively bad things than Mel (so there are shades of hypercatholicism meets asshole that'd meet or exceed my distaste for Cruise the Scientologist. But it's one of those things that takes effort. Scientology makes me believe in the difference between cult and not cult.
posted by wotsac at 9:43 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
I don't know about this article, I've always found Tom Cruise's performances solid but kind of uninspiring -- I don't remember ever having been really fascinated by a character he played.
posted by en forme de poire at 9:44 PM on August 2, 2015
posted by en forme de poire at 9:44 PM on August 2, 2015
BTW does anyone know of any real-life reason why the plane in the much-hyped stunt at the end of the first trailer for MI:RN would have big handholds welded onto the side in apparent defiance of every plausible aerodynamic principle?
It took me a while because I was misidentifying it as a C-130 Hercules (it's actually a C-17), but yep, apparently it's an airbrake.
posted by traveler_ at 9:46 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
It took me a while because I was misidentifying it as a C-130 Hercules (it's actually a C-17), but yep, apparently it's an airbrake.
posted by traveler_ at 9:46 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you said, "it'd be the same," you're a liar, because, come on, it's the Scientology.
Right because it's not like the Catholic Church has had a problematic history or anything...
posted by evilDoug at 9:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
Right because it's not like the Catholic Church has had a problematic history or anything...
posted by evilDoug at 9:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
no wait the best tom cruise movie is collateral because there's a bit where he jumps through a pane of glass being all badass and then he completely busts his ass on a chair, just falls the hell all over it like an idiot
posted by Sebmojo at 9:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 9:50 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
Once your reputation is ruined, there isn't any coming back from that most of the time unless you start reforming, a la Robert Downey r
Well, I think there is another way for a troubled celebrity's reputation to recover very quickly. Michael Jackson almost instantly transformed from a weird pariah that was the butt of every molestation joke to a venerated pop star icon relatively shortly after his death. I can possibly see something similar happening to Tom Cruise. (Of course, I do not want Tom Cruise to pass away and hope he lives a long time.)
posted by FJT at 9:50 PM on August 2, 2015
Well, I think there is another way for a troubled celebrity's reputation to recover very quickly. Michael Jackson almost instantly transformed from a weird pariah that was the butt of every molestation joke to a venerated pop star icon relatively shortly after his death. I can possibly see something similar happening to Tom Cruise. (Of course, I do not want Tom Cruise to pass away and hope he lives a long time.)
posted by FJT at 9:50 PM on August 2, 2015
BTW does anyone know of any real-life reason why the plane in the much-hyped stunt at the end of the first trailer for MI:RN would have big handholds welded onto the side in apparent defiance of every plausible aerodynamic principle?
The A400M doesn't seem to have them, but from still photos they seem to be pretending to be dive brakes like on the Stuka or Dauntless(?).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:51 PM on August 2, 2015
The A400M doesn't seem to have them, but from still photos they seem to be pretending to be dive brakes like on the Stuka or Dauntless(?).
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:51 PM on August 2, 2015
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
No, I avoid his movies because he's racist, misogynist, and anti-semitic.
I mean, Stephen Colbert is devout Catholic, it's not religion that's an issue. It's how it's used.
posted by Windigo at 9:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [46 favorites]
No, I avoid his movies because he's racist, misogynist, and anti-semitic.
I mean, Stephen Colbert is devout Catholic, it's not religion that's an issue. It's how it's used.
posted by Windigo at 9:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [46 favorites]
hate to break it to you, but all human beings are "problematic"
I do have a breaking point, though, in which I wouldn't support someone any more. But it doesn't seem to follow any well thought out calculus. Maybe it should. But I tend to hang out with imperfect people (and sometimes very imperfect people) whom I like, and I don't hang out with some people who are morally quite decent, for reasons that I can't always articulate (we just don't click or something). Similarly, I will support artistically imperfect people whom I like for reasons other than their imperfections, and there are artists who are probably pure as the driven snow and I wouldn't spend a dime.
We spend time with people we can stand to spend time with, even though they are imperfect, and we support people we can stand to support despite their imperfections because we like their art. Sometimes those imperfections are things that make us want to stop spending time and money (totally legit), and sometimes they are not. As much as I'd like it to always be about well thought out social justice, it tends not to be the way that I operate in my personal relationships, and as such, it tends not to be the way I operate towards people who produce art (perhaps in part because I don't think social change works best by primarily boycotting stuff). That being said, though, everyone has a breaking point, but I'm not always sure, until the moment, whether or not that's a line that makes me not able to stand them any more or the things that they stand for, probably because relationships (real or transactional) are kind of complicated, and there's often a subjective element that directs whether or not relationships still feel worth giving our ongoing attention.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:56 PM on August 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
I do have a breaking point, though, in which I wouldn't support someone any more. But it doesn't seem to follow any well thought out calculus. Maybe it should. But I tend to hang out with imperfect people (and sometimes very imperfect people) whom I like, and I don't hang out with some people who are morally quite decent, for reasons that I can't always articulate (we just don't click or something). Similarly, I will support artistically imperfect people whom I like for reasons other than their imperfections, and there are artists who are probably pure as the driven snow and I wouldn't spend a dime.
We spend time with people we can stand to spend time with, even though they are imperfect, and we support people we can stand to support despite their imperfections because we like their art. Sometimes those imperfections are things that make us want to stop spending time and money (totally legit), and sometimes they are not. As much as I'd like it to always be about well thought out social justice, it tends not to be the way that I operate in my personal relationships, and as such, it tends not to be the way I operate towards people who produce art (perhaps in part because I don't think social change works best by primarily boycotting stuff). That being said, though, everyone has a breaking point, but I'm not always sure, until the moment, whether or not that's a line that makes me not able to stand them any more or the things that they stand for, probably because relationships (real or transactional) are kind of complicated, and there's often a subjective element that directs whether or not relationships still feel worth giving our ongoing attention.
posted by SpacemanStix at 9:56 PM on August 2, 2015 [9 favorites]
-Those creepy, creepy dead eyes
Black, like a doll's eyes?
posted by thelonius at 9:57 PM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
Black, like a doll's eyes?
posted by thelonius at 9:57 PM on August 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
When it comes to problematic media, I enjoyed Metafilter's own Lorena Cupake's take on it:
The Art is Not The Artist: On Holding Abusers Accountable & Enjoying Problematic Media
posted by Windigo at 10:00 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
The Art is Not The Artist: On Holding Abusers Accountable & Enjoying Problematic Media
posted by Windigo at 10:00 PM on August 2, 2015 [8 favorites]
Polanski doesn't get any proceeds from a viewing of an older movie like "Chinatown," much less earlier films such as 1962's "Knife in the Water," which came out of then-Soviet-dominated Poland. Don't be ridiculous. Directors did not get eternal percentages in those days, that I know of, certainly not in the Eastern Bloc nations. I only see Woody Allen listed as a producer for one film, meanwhile ("What's Up, Tiger Lily?"). Does anyone know if he would get a percentage for any older films? He was also an actor in many of those, of course, but he not a billionaire or anything. I read him saying somewhere that he made most of his money by selling one piece of long-held real estate in NYC.
Tom Cruise, by contrast, is a producer of the M:I series, as well as an actor in them. So you'd be on firmer ground in boycotting his films there although, again, there is the library and pirating.
posted by raysmj at 10:01 PM on August 2, 2015
Tom Cruise, by contrast, is a producer of the M:I series, as well as an actor in them. So you'd be on firmer ground in boycotting his films there although, again, there is the library and pirating.
posted by raysmj at 10:01 PM on August 2, 2015
"Those of you who say you shun Cruise because "if I give him money he'll give it to Scientology so no" -
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?"
Absolutely 100% because Gibson is a fucking gross antisemite who makes antisemitic religious movies and -- RECORD SET STRAIGHT -- gives his money to a SCHISMATIC Catholic group founded by his father primarily for the express purpose of denying the Holocaust after the Pope recognized it. (Also to oppress women more than Rome allows.)
Tom Cruise makes fucking adventure movies. I can see fun adventure movies that DONT HAVE TOM CRUISE in them. If he were making Schindler's List or Selma it might be a bigger dilemma for me. But I'm not really missing out by skipping Tom and Mel!
There are definitely stars I've been disappointed to hear about their crazy-ass beliefs without feeling like I can't enjoy their movies any longer, but Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson are definitely so far over the line into spousal abuse and Holocaust denial, respectively, that I'm out.
I also only shop at unionized supermarkets. I don't feel like these are weird decisions to make. When I have an ethically better choice, I try to make that choice.
If Tom Cruise appeared in an artistically and socially important movie about the oppression of women in the third world, I'd probably have to see it and suffer the Cruise and maybe even improve my opinion of him in the process. BUT I THINK I'M IN NO DANGER OF THAT. The universe of disposable action movies with satisfying explosions is essentially infinite, so I'm really not missing out by avoiding Tom Cruise. It's barely a cultural decision. It's not, "I hate him, but ..." It's, "He's awful, AND I can see a million similar movies without him in them."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [43 favorites]
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?"
Absolutely 100% because Gibson is a fucking gross antisemite who makes antisemitic religious movies and -- RECORD SET STRAIGHT -- gives his money to a SCHISMATIC Catholic group founded by his father primarily for the express purpose of denying the Holocaust after the Pope recognized it. (Also to oppress women more than Rome allows.)
Tom Cruise makes fucking adventure movies. I can see fun adventure movies that DONT HAVE TOM CRUISE in them. If he were making Schindler's List or Selma it might be a bigger dilemma for me. But I'm not really missing out by skipping Tom and Mel!
There are definitely stars I've been disappointed to hear about their crazy-ass beliefs without feeling like I can't enjoy their movies any longer, but Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson are definitely so far over the line into spousal abuse and Holocaust denial, respectively, that I'm out.
I also only shop at unionized supermarkets. I don't feel like these are weird decisions to make. When I have an ethically better choice, I try to make that choice.
If Tom Cruise appeared in an artistically and socially important movie about the oppression of women in the third world, I'd probably have to see it and suffer the Cruise and maybe even improve my opinion of him in the process. BUT I THINK I'M IN NO DANGER OF THAT. The universe of disposable action movies with satisfying explosions is essentially infinite, so I'm really not missing out by avoiding Tom Cruise. It's barely a cultural decision. It's not, "I hate him, but ..." It's, "He's awful, AND I can see a million similar movies without him in them."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:01 PM on August 2, 2015 [43 favorites]
When it comes to problematic media, I enjoyed Metafilter's own Lorena Cupake's take on it:
The Art is Not The Artist: On Holding Abusers Accountable & Enjoying Problematic Media
Windigo, I was braced to hate that, but I really liked it! (There should be some word to describe the pre-emptive stomach clenching before reading what looks like it will be a problematic article followed by the halting and then joyful relaxation of realizing the article is actually very nuanced and thoughtful, leading to the exhalation of the breath you didn't even know you were holding.)
posted by jaguar at 10:05 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
The Art is Not The Artist: On Holding Abusers Accountable & Enjoying Problematic Media
Windigo, I was braced to hate that, but I really liked it! (There should be some word to describe the pre-emptive stomach clenching before reading what looks like it will be a problematic article followed by the halting and then joyful relaxation of realizing the article is actually very nuanced and thoughtful, leading to the exhalation of the breath you didn't even know you were holding.)
posted by jaguar at 10:05 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
(I mean I double plus boycott Gibson BECAUSE I'm Catholic. He's way more offensive when he's being his antisemitic self AND is in schism telling you how you're going to hell for Vatican II but btw his personal divorce doesn't count. It's pretty safe to assume any devout Catholics you run into hate Gibson MORE than average. Personally, he's ruined his movies all the way back to Gallipoli for me with his incessant bigotry and "but I'm yhe right sort of Catholic!"-ing, and his proclamations in articles for Playboy, of all places, that Catholics are going to hell for going to vernacular Mass. And his wife is going to hell for being Episcopalian. And I really liked that movie but NOPE.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:09 PM on August 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:09 PM on August 2, 2015 [16 favorites]
Oh, wait, is Lorena Cupcake the same person as Juliet Banana? Then there may also need to be a word for the pre-emptive stomach clenching before reading what looks like it will be a problematic article followed by the halting and then joyful relaxation of realizing the article is actually very nuanced and thoughtful, leading to the exhalation of the breath you didn't even know you were holding, followed a few moments later by the wave of realization that you're an idiot for not trusting the author, because the author is lovely.
posted by jaguar at 10:12 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 10:12 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Ok, I take that back because it is clearly an A400M. And after digging through way too many pictures of that one stunt scene, I finally managed to find a picture of a real-for-working A400M with one by its rear side door. Although apparently a better term would be deflector since it's there to protect parachutists from wind buffeting.
posted by traveler_ at 10:13 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by traveler_ at 10:13 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
If you really, really hate Tom Cruise, ask yourself this: If Tom Cruise were a rah-rah Catholic, would you think more or less of him? Or would it be the same?
You mean instead of a Scientologist, and you mean some Roman Catholic diocese in the US? I'd think better of him. Same as if he were a rah-rah Methodist or rah-rah Hindu or rah-rah Hare Krishna or rah-rah vodun or rah-rah Bahai.
Because all of those are real actual religions that, to the extent they're run by anyone, are run by sincere believers in the faith. Even when I disagree with what they're doing or believe that what they're saying is false, I'm happy to admit that most of the time they're making as-sincere-as-anything-else-humans-do attempts to do some kind of good and getting things horrifyingly, tragically wrong.
Scientology is not like the Roman Catholic church. Not like Methodism. Not like Bahai or vodoun or Hare Krishna or Islam or Hinduism or Sikh or even the Southern Baptist Convention. It's not an actual, real, no-shit religion. It's an organized crime ring, created by and run by horrifying cynics. Even if Cruise's belief is sincere, in my estimation Hubbard's wasn't and Miscavige's isn't.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:14 PM on August 2, 2015 [28 favorites]
You mean instead of a Scientologist, and you mean some Roman Catholic diocese in the US? I'd think better of him. Same as if he were a rah-rah Methodist or rah-rah Hindu or rah-rah Hare Krishna or rah-rah vodun or rah-rah Bahai.
Because all of those are real actual religions that, to the extent they're run by anyone, are run by sincere believers in the faith. Even when I disagree with what they're doing or believe that what they're saying is false, I'm happy to admit that most of the time they're making as-sincere-as-anything-else-humans-do attempts to do some kind of good and getting things horrifyingly, tragically wrong.
Scientology is not like the Roman Catholic church. Not like Methodism. Not like Bahai or vodoun or Hare Krishna or Islam or Hinduism or Sikh or even the Southern Baptist Convention. It's not an actual, real, no-shit religion. It's an organized crime ring, created by and run by horrifying cynics. Even if Cruise's belief is sincere, in my estimation Hubbard's wasn't and Miscavige's isn't.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:14 PM on August 2, 2015 [28 favorites]
I'm surprised no one brought up that Christian Bale based his performance in American Psycho on Tom Cruise.
"The actor struggled with the role until he noticed Tom Cruise in an interview on Late Night with David Letterman, being struck by Cruise's energy and "intense friendliness with nothing behind the eyes."
posted by Windigo at 10:21 PM on August 2, 2015 [45 favorites]
"The actor struggled with the role until he noticed Tom Cruise in an interview on Late Night with David Letterman, being struck by Cruise's energy and "intense friendliness with nothing behind the eyes."
posted by Windigo at 10:21 PM on August 2, 2015 [45 favorites]
I'll watch a Tom Cruise movie, I just won't pay to watch a Tom Cruise movie.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:23 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:23 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
(Or let's talk about Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ which seemed like it might be a two-hour, kinda-cool epic showing the actual last hours of Christ, complete with Aramaic ... But turned out to be a hot fucking mess of mixed-up gospel timelines and details, extra-biblical demon babies and odin's crows, focused on two hours of torture porn with an antisemitic underpinning that made for the most graphically violent movie of the year. Even when he's doing Catholicism favors, he's doing us no favors.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:29 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:29 PM on August 2, 2015 [6 favorites]
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
Or the Zucker brothers works on the grounds they'd give it to right wing causes?
Or Paul Newman films, if you dislike his work with Hole In The Wall?
Not to derail entirely, but what's wrong with Paul Newman's camp for kids with illnesses? Was there something I missed?
posted by thetortoise at 10:32 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
Or the Zucker brothers works on the grounds they'd give it to right wing causes?
Or Paul Newman films, if you dislike his work with Hole In The Wall?
Not to derail entirely, but what's wrong with Paul Newman's camp for kids with illnesses? Was there something I missed?
posted by thetortoise at 10:32 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure I really know how to word this correctly. I mean hmm, I think Scientology is completely crazy and I seriously wonder at those that believe in it. And yet, I have to also admire the tenacity of someone who remains true to their religion no matter the personal cost to their career and family. I mean he's wrong, but he really believes he's right. He really believes he's helping people by demonizing psychiatry. He says things, things that we can ignore. He's not bombing buildings in the name of religion like others have and will do. He's great at his job and so I don't feel guilty for paying him for doing that job well, what he does in his own private time is his own business. That we raise him up on a pedestal and give his words more power than they should have is due to our celebrity culture, that's not his fault.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 10:32 PM on August 2, 2015
posted by Hazelsmrf at 10:32 PM on August 2, 2015
If you really, really hate Tom Cruise, ask yourself this: If Tom Cruise were a rah-rah Catholic, would you think more or less of him? Or would it be the same?
Well that depends- are e talking about rah-rah Catholic as in Pope Francis? Or rah-rah Catholic as in John C. Wright? Because Pope Francis I could probably have a friendly dinner with, in site of our ideological differences. Wright on the other hand, being a rabid sexist and homophobe who promotes violence, I would probably want to have a gun on me in any meeting.
I know it's trendy to say that the personal beliefs of people don't matter, but someone who wants me and mine beaten to death with a crowbar has put themselves beyond the realm of politeness. The same goes for someone like Cruise, based on the beliefs he's espoused.
Anyway, there's more movies out there than I can watch in a lifetime. It's not as though I'm losing anything by passing on Cruise's movies.
posted by happyroach at 10:36 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Well that depends- are e talking about rah-rah Catholic as in Pope Francis? Or rah-rah Catholic as in John C. Wright? Because Pope Francis I could probably have a friendly dinner with, in site of our ideological differences. Wright on the other hand, being a rabid sexist and homophobe who promotes violence, I would probably want to have a gun on me in any meeting.
I know it's trendy to say that the personal beliefs of people don't matter, but someone who wants me and mine beaten to death with a crowbar has put themselves beyond the realm of politeness. The same goes for someone like Cruise, based on the beliefs he's espoused.
Anyway, there's more movies out there than I can watch in a lifetime. It's not as though I'm losing anything by passing on Cruise's movies.
posted by happyroach at 10:36 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
Eh, he's the 1%. If we all stop seeing his movies tomorrow (and we won't -- I know I won't even start, because I haven't seen anything of his since Tropic Thunder and he was pretty incidental to my going to see it), he will land on his feet. There are rehabilitation campaigns I care about and agree with; some rich white guy with dangerous beliefs is not one of them.
posted by mirepoix at 10:37 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mirepoix at 10:37 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are also actors who have the same problem in reverse because they're nice guys who aren't the best actors and therefore can't successfully play bad guys (i.e., John Goodman).
Oh, I think if you look unto him, he will show you the life of the mind.
posted by Shepherd at 10:38 PM on August 2, 2015 [30 favorites]
Oh, I think if you look unto him, he will show you the life of the mind.
posted by Shepherd at 10:38 PM on August 2, 2015 [30 favorites]
I would have gone to watch Edge of Tomorrow if the protagonist was a teenage Japanese kid called Keiji Kiriya as it was in the book instead of a 50+ year old white man.
I'm somewhat amazed that the whitewashing of EoT hasn't become as infamous as the American Akira that shall never happen or the Avatar The Last Airbender movie.
posted by sukeban at 10:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
I'm somewhat amazed that the whitewashing of EoT hasn't become as infamous as the American Akira that shall never happen or the Avatar The Last Airbender movie.
posted by sukeban at 10:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [5 favorites]
I know Mel Gibson is a complete abusive and antisemitic asshole, but there's Mad Max series. I discovered those films when I was young, so those movies are very important to me. I understand that watching and talking about them I'm indirectly supporting him, but I love Mad Max. It's my favorite action movie series of all time.
And the same is kind of true to an extent for Tom Cruise. I think cutting out Mission: Impossible would make my life a little more dim. It something else I enjoy a lot.
I know action movies are silly and disposable, but they're actually kind of important to me. But I also know I should always strive to make a more moral or ethical choice.
To me, it's kind of like choosing not to eat meat. Thinking about the comparison a bit more, I have kind of become a "flexitarian" on media. The only Mel Gibson movies I watch are the Mad Max series. And other than Edge of Tomorrow and M:I, I haven't seen any other Cruise films.
posted by FJT at 11:04 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
And the same is kind of true to an extent for Tom Cruise. I think cutting out Mission: Impossible would make my life a little more dim. It something else I enjoy a lot.
I know action movies are silly and disposable, but they're actually kind of important to me. But I also know I should always strive to make a more moral or ethical choice.
To me, it's kind of like choosing not to eat meat. Thinking about the comparison a bit more, I have kind of become a "flexitarian" on media. The only Mel Gibson movies I watch are the Mad Max series. And other than Edge of Tomorrow and M:I, I haven't seen any other Cruise films.
posted by FJT at 11:04 PM on August 2, 2015 [1 favorite]
obligatory mention of the neighbor with the beautiful rose garden who is discovered to be a predatory pedophile. Should you no longer look at his roses?
posted by philip-random at 11:09 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 11:09 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's fortunate that there's so much call in the big movies that Tom Cruise (notice - even at this point in the conversation: full name) is know for, there's so much call for charismatic ciphers for whom personality is a technology.
posted by wotsac at 11:14 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by wotsac at 11:14 PM on August 2, 2015 [3 favorites]
The Evolution Of Ethan Hunt, That Poor, Invincible Rag Doll Of A Man
posted by cendawanita at 11:33 PM on August 2, 2015
posted by cendawanita at 11:33 PM on August 2, 2015
I've been watching some of his publicity work for this new M:I movie (which I did make the decision to watch in the cinema), and I know this isn't the first time I've felt it, but I can't help but notice there is a persistent sadness to the guy. He's clearly well-off, the top of his world, but I can't shake off my notion that Scientology's anti-psychology/psychiatry stand has done him an enormous disfavour in helping him figure himself out. He's lucky he's functional as far as they're concerned, but I keep feeling he's been holding on now by the skin of his teeth for a while now.
(mind you, this shouldn't absolve any of his own direct actions. But it's just startling to notice.)
posted by cendawanita at 11:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
(mind you, this shouldn't absolve any of his own direct actions. But it's just startling to notice.)
posted by cendawanita at 11:54 PM on August 2, 2015 [2 favorites]
obligatory mention of the neighbor with the beautiful rose garden who is discovered to be a predatory pedophile. Should you no longer look at his roses?
Isn't that a false analogy though? Looking at roses doesn't contribute to funding a vast network of pedophiles. Buying his roses might, but the existence of the network isn't part of your premise.
posted by JHarris at 11:58 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
Isn't that a false analogy though? Looking at roses doesn't contribute to funding a vast network of pedophiles. Buying his roses might, but the existence of the network isn't part of your premise.
posted by JHarris at 11:58 PM on August 2, 2015 [7 favorites]
What I find pathetic about the M:I movies is that they're a star vehicle / vanity project for one guy, which is completely not what the series was. It certainly wasn't an excuse for Peter Graves to toss his hair in a comely way and in slow motion the way Cruise did incessantly in MI:2 like it was some kind of Prell commercial. Jim Phelps received the mission and assembled the team, and then it was about the team after that, not about the camera tongue-kissing that one guy.
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:04 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by George_Spiggott at 12:04 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
what manner of shittily-argued hagiography is this
PepsiBluise.
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:21 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
PepsiBluise.
posted by Celsius1414 at 12:21 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
He's lucky he's functional as far as they're concerned, but I keep feeling he's been holding on now by the skin of his teeth for a while now.Uh, yeah, no, don't mention the teeth…
But I'm puzzled by all the agreement that he's good actor. I mean, he's not a bad actor - but he's not playing with a great range.
He is good at choosing movies that explore his limited range, though, and that turn out to be better than expected.
posted by Pinback at 12:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
George, while Cruise is clearly the focus of the M:I films there is a reasonably strong team element to most of them, the exception being the second one, which I would also argue was the weakest, and also the most masturbatory with a view to Cruise. Rhames turns up in most of them, Pegg in three, Renner in two. (That list makes you wonder about why the female characters don't recur doesn't it?)
posted by biffa at 1:05 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by biffa at 1:05 AM on August 3, 2015
How is it possible that maryr's song hasn't got so many favorites that pb had to rewrite the MeFi source code to make that field 64 bits wide? It rhymes and scans perfectly, and will now be stuck in my head for the rest of the week.
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 1:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 1:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
I think Tom Cruise is great at playing assholes who are less charming than they think they are, which is not really a kind of character I love. I have no opinion on whether he's a great actor or is playing to type because I try not to watch actors being interviewed out of character.
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Edge of Tomorrow was miles better than Source Code.
posted by markr at 1:09 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by markr at 1:09 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Edge of Tomorrow was miles better than Source Code.
Was it bollocks.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 1:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Was it bollocks.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 1:20 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Have you people never heard of Pirate Bay? Or the damned library? You like Tom Cruise movies but don't want to support Scientology? Here you go.
Aside from a librarian: the library buys their Tom Cruise movies with real money just like anybody else does. And when they notice that something is popular, they buy more of it in the future.
Depending on how hard a line you draw about financially supporting folks' bad acts, the library might be more of a compromise than it is a wholly satisfying solution.
posted by box at 2:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Aside from a librarian: the library buys their Tom Cruise movies with real money just like anybody else does. And when they notice that something is popular, they buy more of it in the future.
Depending on how hard a line you draw about financially supporting folks' bad acts, the library might be more of a compromise than it is a wholly satisfying solution.
posted by box at 2:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Not to derail entirely, but what's wrong with Paul Newman's camp for kids with illnesses? Was there something I missed?
Nah, nothing, I just figured that odds were good in this thread that you may actually find some people who thought that actors shouldn't muck around in charity or something like that.
Pope Francis? Or rah-rah Catholic as in John C. Wright? Because Pope Francis I could probably have a friendly dinner with, in site of our ideological differences. Wright on the other hand, being a rabid sexist and homophobe who promotes violence, I would probably want to have a gun on me in any meeting.
So with a Catholic Person, it depends on how the person themself conducts themself, but with a Scientologist, it doesn't. Hmmm.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:21 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Nah, nothing, I just figured that odds were good in this thread that you may actually find some people who thought that actors shouldn't muck around in charity or something like that.
Pope Francis? Or rah-rah Catholic as in John C. Wright? Because Pope Francis I could probably have a friendly dinner with, in site of our ideological differences. Wright on the other hand, being a rabid sexist and homophobe who promotes violence, I would probably want to have a gun on me in any meeting.
So with a Catholic Person, it depends on how the person themself conducts themself, but with a Scientologist, it doesn't. Hmmm.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:21 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
That aura that bad celebrities have that everyone sorta notices but balances off against the fame and work , and when they're dead and all the terrinle things come out everyone goes "Oh, yes, I always knew they were like that"?
That.
But mostly: raisins for eyes. And, my God, the Scientology. And the void.
I thank the Hollywood Gods that this man is too handsome for politics, because it is broken black holes of ego like this which crush everything that stumbles towards them and are never satiated. At least in the movie system it is contained.
posted by Devonian at 3:24 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
That.
But mostly: raisins for eyes. And, my God, the Scientology. And the void.
I thank the Hollywood Gods that this man is too handsome for politics, because it is broken black holes of ego like this which crush everything that stumbles towards them and are never satiated. At least in the movie system it is contained.
posted by Devonian at 3:24 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Edge of Tomorrow was fantastic and terribly marketed (to the point where it seemed like the title was actually LIVE DIE REPEAT).
posted by effugas at 3:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by effugas at 3:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I can think of two Tom Cruise movies I liked: Color of Money, and Eyes Wide Shut. Both fine movies, with Cruise successfully cast as an oblivious jerk.
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Dr Dracator at 3:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
I just watched the $cientology doc 'Going Clear' the other day, and ugh, Jesus. That whole thing with Nazanin Boniardi...Cruise is a fucking despicable human being. I for one, won't be liking smarmy, gross, unhinged Tom Cruise again, even though some guy on the internet told us it's ok to do so.
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 3:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by Klaxon Aoooogah at 3:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
People really liked Jack Reacher? We watched it just because it was filmed near our house and a friend was an extra but we couldn't stop laughing as we watched it. The whole plot was nonsensical and tiny Tom Cruise was ludicrous as a tough guy that everyone is instantly terrified of.
posted by octothorpe at 3:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 3:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Tom Cruise has eyes that are a reflection of the void. Perfect horrifying nothingness like an embodiment of chaos on earth. They've always looked that way. He is my mental image of Nyarlathotep disguised as a man.
Add in his incredibly ugly hands and the fact he cannot successfully portray a human being and I don't understand why anyone wants to watch him.
posted by winna at 4:21 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Add in his incredibly ugly hands and the fact he cannot successfully portray a human being and I don't understand why anyone wants to watch him.
posted by winna at 4:21 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Anyone up for some Jimmy Saville? You just have to separate the act from the actor.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:25 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by five fresh fish at 4:25 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Just read The Atlantic piece on Cruise, I'd thought it odd how all of a sudden the media suddenly seemed to love him as well: The Media Whitewash of Tom Cruise.
[Jon] Stewart, who during his career has won two Peabody Awards for public service and the Orwell Award for “distinguished contribution to honesty and clarity in public language,” represented the most challenging interviewer Cruise has faced on the tour, during a challenging year for the actor. In April, HBO broadcast Alex Gibney’s documentary Going Clear, a film based on the book of the same title by Lawrence Wright exploring the Church of Scientology, of which Cruise is a high-profile member. The movie alleges, among other things, that the actor personally profited from slave labor (church members who were paid 40 cents an hour to outfit the star’s airplane hangar and motorcycle), and that his former girlfriend, the actress Nazanin Boniadi, was punished by the Church by being forced to do menial work after telling a friend about her relationship troubles with Cruise. For Cruise “not to address the allegations of abuse,” Gibney said in January, “seems to me palpably irresponsible.” But in The Daily Show interview, as with all of Cruise’s other appearances, Scientology wasn’t mentioned.posted by MarionnetteFilleDeChaussette at 4:27 AM on August 3, 2015 [14 favorites]
Cruise has still made no official response to Going Clear, which was recently nominated for seven Emmy Awards. During the media tour for Rogue Nation, not a single interviewer has asked him a question that in any way deviates from the approved topics regarding the film. [...]
Edge of Tomorrow was okay but it was better the first time when it was called Source Code.Source Code was okay but it was better the first time when it was called Quantum Leap.
(factoid: when Gyllenhaal's character calls his father, the voice on the phone is Scott Bakula)
posted by Riki tiki at 4:36 AM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
Wasn't Source Code with Cruise called Vanilla Sky? It wasn't very good.
posted by Artw at 4:55 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:55 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
So with a Catholic Person, it depends on how the person themself conducts themself, but with a Scientologist, it doesn't. Hmmm.
Nope. See the descriptions in this thread about his behaviour towards Katie Holmes, Nicole Kidman, Brooke Sheilds. Several ex-Scientologists have spoken about how although he is always personally polite to Sea Org staff/cult members he treats them like his own personal sweatshop, expecting vast quantities of free labour so he can have cool vintage motorcycles and nice landscaping.
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist. Or Laura Prepon or any number of other celebrity Scientologists. Because to the best of the public's knowledge, they haven't used their religion to abuse and denigrate other people.
Mind you, I've disliked Tom Cruise since he first became famous. Over-confident guys who think flashing a smile will excuse their crappy behaviour aren't appealing to me either on-screen or off, and I was always more into the shy guy types anyway. But his off-screen behaviour took me from never bothering to see his movies unless my friend who was a fan was picking the film, to actively making sure I don't pay for anything he's in. (Except Tropic Thunder cos I didn't know he was in it). I've seen his stuff on free-to-air TV, and he seems like a hard-working actor. But so what? There are other actors, other movies. I don't expect everyone to boycott him, but we can't possibly watch everything out there and this is where I personally draw a line.
posted by harriet vane at 5:19 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Nope. See the descriptions in this thread about his behaviour towards Katie Holmes, Nicole Kidman, Brooke Sheilds. Several ex-Scientologists have spoken about how although he is always personally polite to Sea Org staff/cult members he treats them like his own personal sweatshop, expecting vast quantities of free labour so he can have cool vintage motorcycles and nice landscaping.
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist. Or Laura Prepon or any number of other celebrity Scientologists. Because to the best of the public's knowledge, they haven't used their religion to abuse and denigrate other people.
Mind you, I've disliked Tom Cruise since he first became famous. Over-confident guys who think flashing a smile will excuse their crappy behaviour aren't appealing to me either on-screen or off, and I was always more into the shy guy types anyway. But his off-screen behaviour took me from never bothering to see his movies unless my friend who was a fan was picking the film, to actively making sure I don't pay for anything he's in. (Except Tropic Thunder cos I didn't know he was in it). I've seen his stuff on free-to-air TV, and he seems like a hard-working actor. But so what? There are other actors, other movies. I don't expect everyone to boycott him, but we can't possibly watch everything out there and this is where I personally draw a line.
posted by harriet vane at 5:19 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Yeah Tom Cruise is (at least allegedly, but in some ways unavoidably) way more complicit in the worst of Scientology than a random rich Catholic would be in the worst of the Roman Catholic Church. I mean, I do think a lot of people who make a big deal about their moral opposition to CoS focus on it because it's an easy target - it's not something I personally think about too much when deciding to spend $15 on a movie. But you'd have a hard time convincing me not to believe the numerous reports that it's a thoroughly rotten organization. And Tom Cruise had its leader as the best man at his wedding, so either he's in on it or he's their biggest dupe.
posted by atoxyl at 5:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 5:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Wasn't Source Code with Cruise called Vanilla Sky?
No, Vanilla Sky was the American remake of Abre los Ojos.
posted by sukeban at 5:39 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
No, Vanilla Sky was the American remake of Abre los Ojos.
posted by sukeban at 5:39 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
What works in Edge of Tomorrow is that you get to see Cruise killed about a thousand times.
What works about the new Mission Impossible is that at the start a politician accused Cruise of relying on brinksmanship and luck, and the entire film proves that point. This is a film where Cruise's life is saved three times by the female supporting actress, fundamentally making him the damsel in distress. when do you see that?
posted by maxsparber at 5:42 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
What works about the new Mission Impossible is that at the start a politician accused Cruise of relying on brinksmanship and luck, and the entire film proves that point. This is a film where Cruise's life is saved three times by the female supporting actress, fundamentally making him the damsel in distress. when do you see that?
posted by maxsparber at 5:42 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
This is a film where Cruise's life is saved three times by the female supporting actress, fundamentally making him the damsel in distress. when do you see that?
This is called The Trinity Syndrome, so actually we've seen it before.
posted by sukeban at 5:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is called The Trinity Syndrome, so actually we've seen it before.
posted by sukeban at 5:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I mean, Stephen Colbert is devout Catholic, it's not religion that's an issue. It's how it's used.
I too generally believe this. However, I also add an asterisk and a note saying "excuse excludes Irish Catholic Church and many Catholic interactions with minorities and women" at which point I realize that the list of exclusions goes on and on and the Catholics that I appreciate are the ones who are in some sense conscientiously and practically unfaithful to their religion's official doctrines.
posted by srboisvert at 5:52 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I too generally believe this. However, I also add an asterisk and a note saying "excuse excludes Irish Catholic Church and many Catholic interactions with minorities and women" at which point I realize that the list of exclusions goes on and on and the Catholics that I appreciate are the ones who are in some sense conscientiously and practically unfaithful to their religion's official doctrines.
posted by srboisvert at 5:52 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Rebecca Ferguson doesn't suffer the Trinity Syndrome. She's important throughout the film -- so much so that at the film's climax, the movie essentially stops following Cruise to show that his climactic plan would be impossible without her support.
posted by maxsparber at 6:02 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maxsparber at 6:02 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, don't go see Tom Cruise movies because he's evil, thus punishing the other actors who happen to be in the movie with him, as well as the crew, etc.
Yeah, that's not problematic AT ALL. Sigh.
posted by gsh at 6:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, that's not problematic AT ALL. Sigh.
posted by gsh at 6:07 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yes, and she's still the supporting character, not the protagonist. Which is what makes her the Trinity.
posted by sukeban at 6:10 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by sukeban at 6:10 AM on August 3, 2015
I don't pay to watch Tom Cruise movies because of his flagrant Scientology connections and the general craziness that he was actively spouting. I actually want to watch his action movies, though, because they give the high energy, things go boom, silly, adrenaline feeling I like sometimes. So when "Edge of Tomorrow" was the cardio cinema showing at my Gold's Gym I watched most of it while on the treadmill. I really enjoyed it. And Emily Blunt...the new Sarah Conner arm ideal...
However, as much as I hate Scientology, I haven't given up movies in general. I know many actors are members and for whatever reason I choose to ignore their connection. I will say that I used to be a huge fan of Beck and I've never quite gotten over his membership in that "church".
posted by bluespark25 at 6:15 AM on August 3, 2015
However, as much as I hate Scientology, I haven't given up movies in general. I know many actors are members and for whatever reason I choose to ignore their connection. I will say that I used to be a huge fan of Beck and I've never quite gotten over his membership in that "church".
posted by bluespark25 at 6:15 AM on August 3, 2015
I'll never be able to get over the fact the "pretty boy" of film has a central incisor literally in the center of his dentition. It's like the Megan toe-thumb thing. I just can't unsee it. Normally I'd be apt to like "flaws", but not when you present yourself as perfect perfection. Maybe I'm shallow. Don't care.
posted by readyfreddy at 6:23 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by readyfreddy at 6:23 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, all the very real reasons to hate this vile motherfucker are still true, and its not like he's apologized or changed at all, but they're kind of old news now and come on, there's a new movie out!
Nope. Fuck Tom Cruise.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Nope. Fuck Tom Cruise.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
At some point Cruise will have to admit that he's middle-aged and that these action movies are starting to look more and more silly as he ages into his fifties.
posted by octothorpe at 6:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 6:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Hazelsmrf: "And yet, I have to also admire the tenacity of someone who remains true to their religion no matter the personal cost to their career and family. I mean he's wrong, but he really believes he's right. He really believes he's helping people by demonizing psychiatry. He says things, things that we can ignore. He's not bombing buildings in the name of religion like others have and will do. He's great at his job and so I don't feel guilty for paying him for doing that job well, what he does in his own private time is his own business."
Even when he's keeping his wife a prisoner for six years and she has a stage a dramatic secretly-planned escape?
Or are you still buying Cosby records?
FJT: "I know action movies are silly and disposable, but they're actually kind of important to me. But I also know I should always strive to make a more moral or ethical choice."
Yeah, and I don't really feel like, "OMG YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MEIN KAMPF THE MOVIE" about it ... they're just action movies! Of the sort many people enjoy! That make quite a bit of money! I personally "boycott" Tom Cruise movies because I don't want to give him money, but I actually don't think it's really a reflection on anyone else if they go see his movies. (I also think it barely matters with older movies ... I can't watch Gallipoli any more because all I can think about when he's on screen is how terrible Mel Gibson is as a human being, not because I'm worried he'll get significant money from it at this point. Anyone who can still watch it without that problem should, it is a great movie!) I also think it's totally possible to enjoy a movie while still recognizing it as problematic because of its actors' personal lives, or how it constructs gender roles, or whatever. I'm trying to think of a movie but all I can think of are kiddie movies ... so I'll mention David Eddings' Belgariad novels, which I love the shit out of, despite recognizing that they're super-problematic w/r/t construction of sex and race within his fantasy world. Would I wholeheartedly recommend it to naive reader? No. Would I say to a sophisticated reader, "If you can get past the suuuuuuper old-fashioned and lazy use of tropes around sex and race in the fantasy genre, it's pretty entertaining."? Sure. And I would also understand if my friend came back and said, "I tried, but dude, your boy Eddings is creepy, can't get past it." Fair enough point. It's a series I read at a certain age where it hit me in the feels, and I can both love it and recognize that it's very problematic and that I probably wouldn't love it if exposed to it as an adult. Culture is always complicated, and I think it's okay to engage with that complication in different ways.
I do, however, object to people being like, "Tom Cruise is not that bad." NO HE IS THAT BAD STOP EXCUSING HIM. He is that bad and you still enjoy his movies? That's okay, and I'm sure you probably have a nuanced way of engaging with that. Me, his Tom Cruise-ness is way too much of a distraction. That's okay too. Since all my pop-culture media sources are doing the Tom Cruise Hagiography/PR Rescue this week (well-coordinated, Cruise's PR guy!), I feel free to be extra grumpy about how NO, HE'S ACTUALLY TERRIBLE, STOP TRYING TO MAKE HIM PALATABLE AS A CELEBRITY.
gsh: "thus punishing the other actors who happen to be in the movie with him, as well as the crew, etc.
Yeah, that's not problematic AT ALL. Sigh."
Oh please. Like they didn't all look up his Q score and go, "Wow, this guy's got a really low Q score for such a recognizable actor," and didn't make their decisions about whether to hire him to the movie and whether to work on the movie based on an informed calculation about the number of people like me who loathe the man and are dragging down his Q score and will automatically hate any movie he's in. My hatred for him is already baked into all the Hollywood business decisions being made about Cruise, so the point where it's a quantifiable number and they can factor it into their salary decisions and their earnings predictions. I'm sure the executives and Cruise himself are all rolling around in their piles of money feeling super, super bad that I hate their actor and won't go see their movie.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:49 AM on August 3, 2015 [18 favorites]
Even when he's keeping his wife a prisoner for six years and she has a stage a dramatic secretly-planned escape?
Or are you still buying Cosby records?
FJT: "I know action movies are silly and disposable, but they're actually kind of important to me. But I also know I should always strive to make a more moral or ethical choice."
Yeah, and I don't really feel like, "OMG YOU'RE GOING TO SEE MEIN KAMPF THE MOVIE" about it ... they're just action movies! Of the sort many people enjoy! That make quite a bit of money! I personally "boycott" Tom Cruise movies because I don't want to give him money, but I actually don't think it's really a reflection on anyone else if they go see his movies. (I also think it barely matters with older movies ... I can't watch Gallipoli any more because all I can think about when he's on screen is how terrible Mel Gibson is as a human being, not because I'm worried he'll get significant money from it at this point. Anyone who can still watch it without that problem should, it is a great movie!) I also think it's totally possible to enjoy a movie while still recognizing it as problematic because of its actors' personal lives, or how it constructs gender roles, or whatever. I'm trying to think of a movie but all I can think of are kiddie movies ... so I'll mention David Eddings' Belgariad novels, which I love the shit out of, despite recognizing that they're super-problematic w/r/t construction of sex and race within his fantasy world. Would I wholeheartedly recommend it to naive reader? No. Would I say to a sophisticated reader, "If you can get past the suuuuuuper old-fashioned and lazy use of tropes around sex and race in the fantasy genre, it's pretty entertaining."? Sure. And I would also understand if my friend came back and said, "I tried, but dude, your boy Eddings is creepy, can't get past it." Fair enough point. It's a series I read at a certain age where it hit me in the feels, and I can both love it and recognize that it's very problematic and that I probably wouldn't love it if exposed to it as an adult. Culture is always complicated, and I think it's okay to engage with that complication in different ways.
I do, however, object to people being like, "Tom Cruise is not that bad." NO HE IS THAT BAD STOP EXCUSING HIM. He is that bad and you still enjoy his movies? That's okay, and I'm sure you probably have a nuanced way of engaging with that. Me, his Tom Cruise-ness is way too much of a distraction. That's okay too. Since all my pop-culture media sources are doing the Tom Cruise Hagiography/PR Rescue this week (well-coordinated, Cruise's PR guy!), I feel free to be extra grumpy about how NO, HE'S ACTUALLY TERRIBLE, STOP TRYING TO MAKE HIM PALATABLE AS A CELEBRITY.
gsh: "thus punishing the other actors who happen to be in the movie with him, as well as the crew, etc.
Yeah, that's not problematic AT ALL. Sigh."
Oh please. Like they didn't all look up his Q score and go, "Wow, this guy's got a really low Q score for such a recognizable actor," and didn't make their decisions about whether to hire him to the movie and whether to work on the movie based on an informed calculation about the number of people like me who loathe the man and are dragging down his Q score and will automatically hate any movie he's in. My hatred for him is already baked into all the Hollywood business decisions being made about Cruise, so the point where it's a quantifiable number and they can factor it into their salary decisions and their earnings predictions. I'm sure the executives and Cruise himself are all rolling around in their piles of money feeling super, super bad that I hate their actor and won't go see their movie.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:49 AM on August 3, 2015 [18 favorites]
He's the 21st Centuries Charlton Heston. Serviceable actor, nothing to write home about...
posted by judson at 6:54 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by judson at 6:54 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
This thread has been fascinating for me as I had no idea people held such strong opinions about Tom Cruise. (I'm fairly indifferent to him; his films have never been anything I've been interested in seeing so he appears on my radar as more "crazy Scientologist" than "legit actor".)
posted by Kitteh at 7:02 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 7:02 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
It feels pretty good to have never liked Tom Cruise as an actor so I don't have to worry about whether I'm okay with his personal behavior. There are a couple of movies that I have liked in spite of him, but his Tom Cruiseyness always overwhelms anything else about his characters and I just can't stand watching him. Every time he's on screen he just oozes asshole out of his pores. I've felt that way since his bit role in The Outsiders and I think I may have been the only girl in my high school that didn't have a crush on Maverick. I really don't understand why other people enjoy watching him.
posted by Dojie at 7:05 AM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Dojie at 7:05 AM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
Well, not to speak for anyone else, but I agree with harriet vane upthread:
Nope. See the descriptions in this thread about his behaviour towards Katie Holmes, Nicole Kidman, Brooke Sheilds. Several ex-Scientologists have spoken about how although he is always personally polite to Sea Org staff/cult members he treats them like his own personal sweatshop, expecting vast quantities of free labour so he can have cool vintage motorcycles and nice landscaping.
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist. Or Laura Prepon or any number of other celebrity Scientologists. Because to the best of the public's knowledge, they haven't used their religion to abuse and denigrate other people.
posted by gaspode at 7:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
Nope. See the descriptions in this thread about his behaviour towards Katie Holmes, Nicole Kidman, Brooke Sheilds. Several ex-Scientologists have spoken about how although he is always personally polite to Sea Org staff/cult members he treats them like his own personal sweatshop, expecting vast quantities of free labour so he can have cool vintage motorcycles and nice landscaping.
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist. Or Laura Prepon or any number of other celebrity Scientologists. Because to the best of the public's knowledge, they haven't used their religion to abuse and denigrate other people.
posted by gaspode at 7:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
Amy Nicholson and Devin Faraci talk about the first Mission: Impossible on today's episode of The Canon, and they have a lot of smart and interesting things to say about Tom Cruise. Amy has written a Cahiers du Cinema book on Cruise.
Characteristic of the podcast, it's a great discussion. (Also characteristic of the podcast, it's simultaneously improved and marred by a lot of bullheaded combativeness.)
posted by painquale at 7:12 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Characteristic of the podcast, it's a great discussion. (Also characteristic of the podcast, it's simultaneously improved and marred by a lot of bullheaded combativeness.)
posted by painquale at 7:12 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
just a small note from upthread - mel gibson is antisemitic AND he's a domestic abuser. there's lots and lots of reasons to avoid mel gibson that have nothing to do with the catholic church.
as for tom cruise - there's lots to find in action movies that i can avoid an abusive ass like him. the only movie of his i rewatch anymore is magnolia but that's because i feel like paul thomas anderson was actually doing a public service by writing a role that is at its core showing what sort of creepazoid cruise really is.
also as to the scientology thing, i feel like a lot of people in this thread have been very clear that it's the position cruise holds in scientology, and the way he's used the church to be abusive, that is the problem so i'm not sure why people keep coming up with some version of "so ALL scientologists???" because, no - annie clark seems generally fine - i don't think she's used the church to harm her girlfriend, which makes her very different from tom cruise in that regard.
posted by nadawi at 7:14 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
as for tom cruise - there's lots to find in action movies that i can avoid an abusive ass like him. the only movie of his i rewatch anymore is magnolia but that's because i feel like paul thomas anderson was actually doing a public service by writing a role that is at its core showing what sort of creepazoid cruise really is.
also as to the scientology thing, i feel like a lot of people in this thread have been very clear that it's the position cruise holds in scientology, and the way he's used the church to be abusive, that is the problem so i'm not sure why people keep coming up with some version of "so ALL scientologists???" because, no - annie clark seems generally fine - i don't think she's used the church to harm her girlfriend, which makes her very different from tom cruise in that regard.
posted by nadawi at 7:14 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
I prefer to believe that's literally the reason it exists . . . cyclops
I like your healthy mix of cynicism and tabloid curiosity.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:25 AM on August 3, 2015
I like your healthy mix of cynicism and tabloid curiosity.
posted by SpacemanStix at 7:25 AM on August 3, 2015
It's because of the folks with the rationale that paying to see Cruise is giving money to the organization.
it seems weird to fight against the rational that the only objectionable thing about tom cruise and scientology is his mere membership since there's a lot more explanation here.
posted by nadawi at 7:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
it seems weird to fight against the rational that the only objectionable thing about tom cruise and scientology is his mere membership since there's a lot more explanation here.
posted by nadawi at 7:26 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Edge of Tomorrow was fantastic and terribly marketed (to the point where it seemed like the title was actually LIVE DIE REPEAT).
I have a friend who believes this is true. I showed him evidence to the contrary and he held fast, claiming that "they changed the name after the release."
posted by a dangerous ruin at 7:28 AM on August 3, 2015
I have a friend who believes this is true. I showed him evidence to the contrary and he held fast, claiming that "they changed the name after the release."
posted by a dangerous ruin at 7:28 AM on August 3, 2015
Nope. See the descriptions in this thread about his behaviour towards Katie Holmes, Nicole Kidman, Brooke Sheilds. Several ex-Scientologists have spoken about how although he is always personally polite to Sea Org staff/cult members he treats them like his own personal sweatshop, expecting vast quantities of free labour so he can have cool vintage motorcycles and nice landscaping.
Add sending his teenage niece to do "amends" across the country for "treasonous" acts to all the other appalling scientology related stuff Cruise has done (that video is super interesting as is the whole series). For all I know Laura Prepon is as controlling and abusive and brainwashed as Cruise is as well as paying COS for playing with clay tables, but there don't seem to be the same in-the-know leaks about her and the other scientologist celebs.
I saw Trainwreck this weekend and the MI trailer came on beforehand and there was lots of chatter behind me about Tom looking too old and what happened to his hair and oh oprah-interview and so on. I'm sure this one will still make a bazillion dollars , but I think pretentious illiterate's comment about the "hotness factor" is right too.
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Add sending his teenage niece to do "amends" across the country for "treasonous" acts to all the other appalling scientology related stuff Cruise has done (that video is super interesting as is the whole series). For all I know Laura Prepon is as controlling and abusive and brainwashed as Cruise is as well as paying COS for playing with clay tables, but there don't seem to be the same in-the-know leaks about her and the other scientologist celebs.
I saw Trainwreck this weekend and the MI trailer came on beforehand and there was lots of chatter behind me about Tom looking too old and what happened to his hair and oh oprah-interview and so on. I'm sure this one will still make a bazillion dollars , but I think pretentious illiterate's comment about the "hotness factor" is right too.
posted by jamesonandwater at 7:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have a friend who believes this is true. I showed him evidence to the contrary and he held fast, claiming that "they changed the name after the release."
They did.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
They did.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 7:33 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
The World Famous: "Wait. Are y'all boycotting all media featuring any performer who is a Scientologist, or just the stuff with stars as big as Cruise or Travolta? "
Personally, just Cruise. Like, I think it's too bad Travolta is a Scientologist, but he seems cool. Laura Prepon makes me physically cringe when she starts talking about it in interviews (which she mostly quit doing probably because her PR person is NOT DUMB), but, again, she doesn't seem that bad. I'm aware of the complicated ways Scientology works in Hollywood and how stars are insulated from the group's bad behavior in a lot of ways.
Cruise, otoh, has authority in the church, which is a bit more troubling. But my REAL problem with Cruise is the way he abused his wives. I mean, Katie Holmes had to secretly get a burner phone from one of the few friends she was allowed to still see (because it made for good paparazzi pictures), to call her parents, who arranged for her to talk to law firms on the burner, to secretly arrange her divorce. Because Cruise had had her entirely surrounded with Scientologists loyal to him, and they checked her phone records, and she wasn't allowed to contact "suppressive persons" like her parents. Or divorce lawyers.
It was like some crazy shit out of medieval Europe, packing the queen's ladies-in-waiting with spies and controlling her access to the outside world. After the divorce they followed her around for a couple of years spying on her. It was all extremely crazy.
(Actually, there should be a Mission Impossible: Katie Holmes Escapes movie because she was pretty badass about getting out of there!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [22 favorites]
Personally, just Cruise. Like, I think it's too bad Travolta is a Scientologist, but he seems cool. Laura Prepon makes me physically cringe when she starts talking about it in interviews (which she mostly quit doing probably because her PR person is NOT DUMB), but, again, she doesn't seem that bad. I'm aware of the complicated ways Scientology works in Hollywood and how stars are insulated from the group's bad behavior in a lot of ways.
Cruise, otoh, has authority in the church, which is a bit more troubling. But my REAL problem with Cruise is the way he abused his wives. I mean, Katie Holmes had to secretly get a burner phone from one of the few friends she was allowed to still see (because it made for good paparazzi pictures), to call her parents, who arranged for her to talk to law firms on the burner, to secretly arrange her divorce. Because Cruise had had her entirely surrounded with Scientologists loyal to him, and they checked her phone records, and she wasn't allowed to contact "suppressive persons" like her parents. Or divorce lawyers.
It was like some crazy shit out of medieval Europe, packing the queen's ladies-in-waiting with spies and controlling her access to the outside world. After the divorce they followed her around for a couple of years spying on her. It was all extremely crazy.
(Actually, there should be a Mission Impossible: Katie Holmes Escapes movie because she was pretty badass about getting out of there!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [22 favorites]
It's because of the folks with the rationale that paying to see Cruise is giving money to the organization.
Cruise uses his fame and wealth to publicize Scientology and legitimize Scientology in ways that other famous people don't seem to do, except maybe Travolta. It's not just a "He happens to be a member" sort of commitment to the organization. Helping to make Cruise more famous directly helps legitimize Scientology.
posted by jaguar at 7:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Cruise uses his fame and wealth to publicize Scientology and legitimize Scientology in ways that other famous people don't seem to do, except maybe Travolta. It's not just a "He happens to be a member" sort of commitment to the organization. Helping to make Cruise more famous directly helps legitimize Scientology.
posted by jaguar at 7:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
I actually do make an effort to avoid films starring Scientologists. I also try to make purchasing decisions based on country of origin and/or working conditions — no more East Asian fishery products for me, because of slavery, for instance.
It's a bit of a pain in the ass to try to consider how my purchases affect this world, but I try to make the effort anyway.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:37 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
It's a bit of a pain in the ass to try to consider how my purchases affect this world, but I try to make the effort anyway.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:37 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have a friend who believes this is true. I showed him evidence to the contrary and he held fast, claiming that "they changed the name after the release."
They sort of did? It's unclear? Anyway, it's a fucking mess.
I believe when I watched it on streaming its listed title was "Live Die Reapeat Edge of Tomorrow".
posted by Artw at 7:37 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
They sort of did? It's unclear? Anyway, it's a fucking mess.
I believe when I watched it on streaming its listed title was "Live Die Reapeat Edge of Tomorrow".
posted by Artw at 7:37 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wait. Are y'all boycotting all media featuring any performer who is a Scientologist, or just the stuff with stars as big as Cruise or Travolta? Because there are a lot of Scientologists in Hollywood, and if you're boycotting all of them, I had no idea there were people who put such strict restrictions on their media consumption based on something like that.
I weakly boycott stuff from anyone I remember at the time is a scientologist, because I don't *like* supporting organized crime when I don't have to. I live in NY, so presumably some portion of my taxes goes to mafia businesses, but I don't get any direct say in who does the garbage collection.
It's easier than you make it out to be because there really are only a couple of a-list people there -- it's not like it's hard to avoid movies with *google* Laura Prepon or Jeff Conaway or Jason Lee. And it's certainly not the biggest thing in my head, so I forget sometimes except for Cruise, Travolta, and Elizabeth Moss, and sometimes I end up going to see the movie anyway because it seems good and then just feel a little bad about myself. Like I did for Edge of Tomorrow and might end up doing for the current one.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:46 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I weakly boycott stuff from anyone I remember at the time is a scientologist, because I don't *like* supporting organized crime when I don't have to. I live in NY, so presumably some portion of my taxes goes to mafia businesses, but I don't get any direct say in who does the garbage collection.
It's easier than you make it out to be because there really are only a couple of a-list people there -- it's not like it's hard to avoid movies with *google* Laura Prepon or Jeff Conaway or Jason Lee. And it's certainly not the biggest thing in my head, so I forget sometimes except for Cruise, Travolta, and Elizabeth Moss, and sometimes I end up going to see the movie anyway because it seems good and then just feel a little bad about myself. Like I did for Edge of Tomorrow and might end up doing for the current one.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:46 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Mostly I just kind of avoid his films because I find him creepy, and his history and his screen presence kind of intertwine on that so it's hard to say which is the cause, and that makes watching films with him in less pleasant than they would be otherwise.
Not really a grandiose stand for ethics, I know.
posted by Artw at 7:50 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Not really a grandiose stand for ethics, I know.
posted by Artw at 7:50 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Thanks kirkaracha, I knew he was in at least 4 but couldn't be arsed to look up whether he'd done all of them.
posted by biffa at 8:05 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by biffa at 8:05 AM on August 3, 2015
Yes, and she's still the supporting character, not the protagonist. Which is what makes her the Trinity.
This is what the link you provided said:
For the ordinary dude to be triumphant, the Strong Female Character has to entirely disappear into Subservient Trophy Character mode.
That doesn't happen in the new Mission Impossible. There are certainly criticisms that can be leveled against the film, but, thinking back on it, in the past three films Tom Cruise's character may be the lead, but he's part of a team, and the team has always included strong women who actually have a significant role in completing the narrative. This is especially true in this film, where, if anybody has a Subservient Trophy Character, it is Ving Rhames, who shows up as a badass at the start of the film and is shown using a screwdriver at the end.
posted by maxsparber at 8:06 AM on August 3, 2015
This is what the link you provided said:
For the ordinary dude to be triumphant, the Strong Female Character has to entirely disappear into Subservient Trophy Character mode.
That doesn't happen in the new Mission Impossible. There are certainly criticisms that can be leveled against the film, but, thinking back on it, in the past three films Tom Cruise's character may be the lead, but he's part of a team, and the team has always included strong women who actually have a significant role in completing the narrative. This is especially true in this film, where, if anybody has a Subservient Trophy Character, it is Ving Rhames, who shows up as a badass at the start of the film and is shown using a screwdriver at the end.
posted by maxsparber at 8:06 AM on August 3, 2015
I don't need this article to justify my long-abiding appreciation for Tom Cruise the actor.
My appreciation for Tom Cruise the actor doesn't infringe on my distaste for Tom Cruise the father, husband, and celebrity kook.
posted by echocollate at 8:16 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
My appreciation for Tom Cruise the actor doesn't infringe on my distaste for Tom Cruise the father, husband, and celebrity kook.
posted by echocollate at 8:16 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Add me to the list of people who was much more interested in Edge of Tomorrow when it was called All You Need Is Kill. (To the point where I was legitimately upset Emily Blunt was in it, because ARGH THE WHITEWASHING STILL PISSES ME OFF.)
The fact that I wasn't paying money to see Tom Cruise was honestly just bonus. And I say that as someone who likes him in A Few Good Men.
posted by ultranos at 8:27 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
The fact that I wasn't paying money to see Tom Cruise was honestly just bonus. And I say that as someone who likes him in A Few Good Men.
posted by ultranos at 8:27 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Those "I hate to break it to you but people are flawed" people in this thread are broadcasting loud and clear how little they know about scientology and the role cruise plays. Start with the HBO documentary if nothing else. We will accept your apology when you are informed.
posted by aydeejones at 8:31 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by aydeejones at 8:31 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
And no, it's not the absurdity of Xenu but the indentured servitude / slavery and separation of children from mothers that gets me most.
posted by aydeejones at 8:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by aydeejones at 8:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
while Cruise is clearly the focus of the M:I films there is a reasonably strong team element to most of them, the exception being the second one, which I would also argue was the weakest, and also the most masturbatory with a view to Cruise.
I only saw the first, which ends with a reveal which I suppose I shouldn't spoil even now, but which seemed to be a "piss on the original I own this beeyatch now" move, and the second which as you say was all "damn I love me and so do you". So if it somehow has become more in the mode of the original -- which I find a little hard to imagine given that all the publicity is for Cruise and his character alone -- yeah, I missed that.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:44 AM on August 3, 2015
I only saw the first, which ends with a reveal which I suppose I shouldn't spoil even now, but which seemed to be a "piss on the original I own this beeyatch now" move, and the second which as you say was all "damn I love me and so do you". So if it somehow has become more in the mode of the original -- which I find a little hard to imagine given that all the publicity is for Cruise and his character alone -- yeah, I missed that.
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:44 AM on August 3, 2015
item: "Edge of Tomorrow was okay but it was better the first time when it was called Source Code."
Not so much. Try searching for "All You Need Is Kill" and Hiroshi Sakurazaka before you argue with me.
posted by Samizdata at 9:03 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Not so much. Try searching for "All You Need Is Kill" and Hiroshi Sakurazaka before you argue with me.
posted by Samizdata at 9:03 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
UrineSoakedRube: "Elementary Penguin> The movie is a pitch perfect adaptation of the airport-reading technothriller it is adapting.
It's only pitch perfect to the extent that every time the movie diverged from One Shot, it was an improvement. I mean every time and in every way.
But yeah, I also enjoyed the crap out of that movie, and probably saw it 5 times before Netflix yanked it from Instant."
What the hell was that about? I waited to see it until after finishing reading one of the books, and BAM! It was gone.
posted by Samizdata at 9:04 AM on August 3, 2015
It's only pitch perfect to the extent that every time the movie diverged from One Shot, it was an improvement. I mean every time and in every way.
But yeah, I also enjoyed the crap out of that movie, and probably saw it 5 times before Netflix yanked it from Instant."
What the hell was that about? I waited to see it until after finishing reading one of the books, and BAM! It was gone.
posted by Samizdata at 9:04 AM on August 3, 2015
I've mentioned this a few times here before, but I was raised a Scientologist. I was friends with Tom Cruise's niece as a child and met him briefly on a couple of occasions. I think there's even a picture at my parents' house of him with bunch of my friends and me on the set of Jerry Maguire when I was about 12 or so.
Articles like these always make me uncomfortable, because Cruise was just about the closest thing to royalty or sainthood my isolated, little world had as a kid. He was always perfectly nice to me personally, but there is no doubt in my mind that he truly BELIEVES, and within Scientology, folks view all his successes as a direct result of his religious dedication. Although I know for a fact that his experiences within the Church have been almost wholly different than mine, I'm also certain that it would be near impossible to determine where Cruise ends and the Church begins.
Today, I tend to avoid his movies, not because I feel strongly about boycotting them, but because they are awkward reminders of a world I left behind. Watching a movie is hardly an endorsement of the lead actor's creepy beliefs, and I don't begrudge people their choice of entertainment. But my heart still breaks a little when I think about how all the attention, money, and devotion he has raised for Scientology over the years and recall how many of my lost friends he inspired to join the Sea Org and help "clear the world."
posted by Diagonalize at 9:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [25 favorites]
Articles like these always make me uncomfortable, because Cruise was just about the closest thing to royalty or sainthood my isolated, little world had as a kid. He was always perfectly nice to me personally, but there is no doubt in my mind that he truly BELIEVES, and within Scientology, folks view all his successes as a direct result of his religious dedication. Although I know for a fact that his experiences within the Church have been almost wholly different than mine, I'm also certain that it would be near impossible to determine where Cruise ends and the Church begins.
Today, I tend to avoid his movies, not because I feel strongly about boycotting them, but because they are awkward reminders of a world I left behind. Watching a movie is hardly an endorsement of the lead actor's creepy beliefs, and I don't begrudge people their choice of entertainment. But my heart still breaks a little when I think about how all the attention, money, and devotion he has raised for Scientology over the years and recall how many of my lost friends he inspired to join the Sea Org and help "clear the world."
posted by Diagonalize at 9:11 AM on August 3, 2015 [25 favorites]
The whole plot was nonsensical and tiny Tom Cruise was ludicrous as a tough guy that everyone is instantly terrified of.
The Reacher novels are a guilty pleasure of mine (so bad, yet so fun); I can't watch the Jack Reacher movie for the simple fact that Tom Cruise does not match up with the description of Jack Reacher from the books - dirty blond hair; blue eyes; 6'5"; 220-250lbs; heavily muscled (without exercise, natch); irreligious; aggressive (in one book, he's described as "feral" by another character); trained in unarmed & armed combat (and brutally practical in the application of the same); and a former MP; i.e., the kind of guy who would be physically intimidating on his own, and as a result of his career knows how to use that intimidation, if he's not outright just kicking the shit out of whoever is in his way. (As a fictional character, I don't want to say that Reacher is a Marty Stu, but he appears to be a combination of a lot of stereotypical masculine physical traits, tendencies and capabilities that represents some level of wish fulfillment for the author and/or the audience).
Tom Cruise (and he has several films that I enjoy, despite knowing that he's a troubled and troubling man) is not, in my mind's conception of the character, Jack Reacher in terms of physical build, appearance, or mannerisms. I can't get past that casting decision.
posted by nubs at 9:12 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
The Reacher novels are a guilty pleasure of mine (so bad, yet so fun); I can't watch the Jack Reacher movie for the simple fact that Tom Cruise does not match up with the description of Jack Reacher from the books - dirty blond hair; blue eyes; 6'5"; 220-250lbs; heavily muscled (without exercise, natch); irreligious; aggressive (in one book, he's described as "feral" by another character); trained in unarmed & armed combat (and brutally practical in the application of the same); and a former MP; i.e., the kind of guy who would be physically intimidating on his own, and as a result of his career knows how to use that intimidation, if he's not outright just kicking the shit out of whoever is in his way. (As a fictional character, I don't want to say that Reacher is a Marty Stu, but he appears to be a combination of a lot of stereotypical masculine physical traits, tendencies and capabilities that represents some level of wish fulfillment for the author and/or the audience).
Tom Cruise (and he has several films that I enjoy, despite knowing that he's a troubled and troubling man) is not, in my mind's conception of the character, Jack Reacher in terms of physical build, appearance, or mannerisms. I can't get past that casting decision.
posted by nubs at 9:12 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Windigo: "Tom Cruise is the best sprinter in movies.
If it's the running you're after, let me introduce you to Chris Evans in Captain America and Snowpiercer. Added bonus: he's not creepy."
Double bonus: Between those and the vastly under-appreciated Push, I have a massive mancrush on Chris Evans.
posted by Samizdata at 9:13 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
If it's the running you're after, let me introduce you to Chris Evans in Captain America and Snowpiercer. Added bonus: he's not creepy."
Double bonus: Between those and the vastly under-appreciated Push, I have a massive mancrush on Chris Evans.
posted by Samizdata at 9:13 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
So where does one go to find a complete and exhaustive rundown of Tom Cruise's many sins? The Vanity Fair piece just after the divorce lacks many of these juicy details.
posted by amber_dale at 9:18 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by amber_dale at 9:18 AM on August 3, 2015
EmpressCallipygos: "Those of you who say you shun Cruise because "if I give him money he'll give it to Scientology so no" -
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
Or the Zucker brothers works on the grounds they'd give it to right wing causes?
Or Paul Newman films, if you dislike his work with Hole In The Wall?"
Ummmm, because Scientology is pretty much an unrepentantly evil enterprise that pretty much only exists to defraud people looking for something beyond themselves and/or are having major life issues?
(To the best of my knowledge, I have one prejudice in me. Want to guess what it is?)
posted by Samizdata at 9:19 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
Or the Zucker brothers works on the grounds they'd give it to right wing causes?
Or Paul Newman films, if you dislike his work with Hole In The Wall?"
Ummmm, because Scientology is pretty much an unrepentantly evil enterprise that pretty much only exists to defraud people looking for something beyond themselves and/or are having major life issues?
(To the best of my knowledge, I have one prejudice in me. Want to guess what it is?)
posted by Samizdata at 9:19 AM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
I didn't get into the grooming of Boniardi or the abuse of Holmes because the slavery and child abuse revealed in "Going Clear" stuck with me the most. Cruise is a monster. Laura Prepon might be, but I'm ok with "misguided" because she isn't the de facto face of a monstrous organization and likely has not seen the depths of depravity within.
posted by aydeejones at 9:29 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by aydeejones at 9:29 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
All movies will just be Chris Pratt now, Polar Express style, forever.
posted by Artw at 9:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:32 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
i wonder how much tom cruise knows about the whereabouts and treatment of shelly miscavige.
posted by nadawi at 9:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist. Or Laura Prepon or any number of other celebrity Scientologists.
Ohhhh, they certainly do. I've even seen people - people here on the blue - do a 180 in the middle of a thread about Neil Gaiman when someone else mentioned his father was a Scientologist, and they went from singing his name to the skies to saying "dammit, now I have to give away all my Sandman back issues, FUUUUUUUCK."
Frankly, I think anyone's free to like or dislike anyone's artistic work for any reason, but it's always struck me as profoundly odd just how bent out of shape the anti-Scientologists get; not that they get bent out of shape, but the degree to which they do. It's almost like they think that everything Tom Cruise or Elizabeth Moss or John Travolta or Kirstie Alley or whoever even just touches has Xenu Cooties or something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:38 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ohhhh, they certainly do. I've even seen people - people here on the blue - do a 180 in the middle of a thread about Neil Gaiman when someone else mentioned his father was a Scientologist, and they went from singing his name to the skies to saying "dammit, now I have to give away all my Sandman back issues, FUUUUUUUCK."
Frankly, I think anyone's free to like or dislike anyone's artistic work for any reason, but it's always struck me as profoundly odd just how bent out of shape the anti-Scientologists get; not that they get bent out of shape, but the degree to which they do. It's almost like they think that everything Tom Cruise or Elizabeth Moss or John Travolta or Kirstie Alley or whoever even just touches has Xenu Cooties or something.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:38 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
for what it's worth, gaiman is very much not a scientologist and the most he's said about about it when asked is "i love my family very much." people who hate scientology and use that to get their hate on for gaiman (or amanda palmer) are seriously barking up the wrong tree.
posted by nadawi at 9:40 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:40 AM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
people who hate scientology and use that to get their hate on for gaiman (or amanda palmer) are seriously barking up the wrong tree.
Precisely. And yet I've seen people do precisely that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:42 AM on August 3, 2015
Precisely. And yet I've seen people do precisely that.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:42 AM on August 3, 2015
To the point where I was legitimately upset Emily Blunt was in it, because ARGH THE WHITEWASHING STILL PISSES ME OFF.
Rita Vrataski was a Caucasian American in the book, they just changed her to a Brit in the movie because hey she has to be a little exotic. But in All You Need Is Kill the action was set in Japan, the protagonist was Japanese, there was a Native American woman in the military base that I think they cut from the movie too and Keiji's sergeant was Brazilian Japanese.
posted by sukeban at 9:42 AM on August 3, 2015
Rita Vrataski was a Caucasian American in the book, they just changed her to a Brit in the movie because hey she has to be a little exotic. But in All You Need Is Kill the action was set in Japan, the protagonist was Japanese, there was a Native American woman in the military base that I think they cut from the movie too and Keiji's sergeant was Brazilian Japanese.
posted by sukeban at 9:42 AM on August 3, 2015
nubs: The Reacher novels are a guilty pleasure of mine (so bad, yet so fun); I can't watch the Jack Reacher movie for the simple fact that Tom Cruise does not match up with the description of Jack Reacher from the books - dirty blond hair; blue eyes; 6'5"; 220-250lbs; heavily muscled (without exercise, natch); irreligious; aggressive (in one book, he's described as "feral" by another character)....
This was one of the first big signs that I was going to hate Minority Report. The short story The Minority Report opens:
"The first thought Anderton had when he saw the young man was: I'm getting bald. Bald and fat and old."
Story Anderton was a tired, insecure, disillusioned man in his 50s. And for this travesty of a (visually exciting) film, they cast an action hero. Ugh.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2015
This was one of the first big signs that I was going to hate Minority Report. The short story The Minority Report opens:
"The first thought Anderton had when he saw the young man was: I'm getting bald. Bald and fat and old."
Story Anderton was a tired, insecure, disillusioned man in his 50s. And for this travesty of a (visually exciting) film, they cast an action hero. Ugh.
posted by mountmccabe at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2015
some people are uninformed, whatcha gonna do? seems like most of the people in this thread we're having presently are making distinctions about tom cruise specifically vs some random who just belongs to the church in less visibly problematic ways.
posted by nadawi at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
He's the 21st Centuries Charlton Heston. Serviceable actor, nothing to write home about...
I beg to differ. The 20th Century just isn't reconcilable without these eight seconds.
posted by philip-random at 9:52 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I beg to differ. The 20th Century just isn't reconcilable without these eight seconds.
posted by philip-random at 9:52 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist.
It's a little different when you're raised in a group like that, though. He didn't willingly become a member and he doesn't seem to put a huge spin on it.
posted by psoas at 10:03 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
It's a little different when you're raised in a group like that, though. He didn't willingly become a member and he doesn't seem to put a huge spin on it.
posted by psoas at 10:03 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
This was one of the first big signs that I was going to hate Minority Report. The short story The Minority Report opens
Wait, you're saying Hollywood took some liberties with a Philip K. Dick story?!
posted by entropicamericana at 10:17 AM on August 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
Wait, you're saying Hollywood took some liberties with a Philip K. Dick story?!
posted by entropicamericana at 10:17 AM on August 3, 2015 [9 favorites]
Somehow I don't think that Dick envisioned Douglas Quail looking like Arnold either. And Asimov didn't exactly describe Susan Calvin as looking like a 32 year old Bridget Moynahan.
posted by octothorpe at 10:28 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by octothorpe at 10:28 AM on August 3, 2015
Wait Laura Prepon's one? Beck? Wow.
I bet people don't get on their cases because they don't know they're Scientologists.
posted by daninnj at 10:47 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
I bet people don't get on their cases because they don't know they're Scientologists.
posted by daninnj at 10:47 AM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Wait Laura Prepon's one? Beck? Wow.
I bet people don't get on their cases because they don't know they're Scientologists.
Largely because they aren't as in-your-face about it as Cruise (though they're also not nearly as famous, and therefore less able to be in-one's-face about anything).
posted by Etrigan at 10:50 AM on August 3, 2015
I bet people don't get on their cases because they don't know they're Scientologists.
Largely because they aren't as in-your-face about it as Cruise (though they're also not nearly as famous, and therefore less able to be in-one's-face about anything).
posted by Etrigan at 10:50 AM on August 3, 2015
Wait. Annie Clark is a Scientologist?
posted by bluespark25 at 10:50 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by bluespark25 at 10:50 AM on August 3, 2015
huh i was sure she was (and wondered how her sexuality played into that) but now i'm struggling to find confirmation except for her occasionally in interviews saying things like, "not to use a scientology term..." - maybe it was just assumed because of her friendship with beck? i know dodgy message boards used her as a link to say that one of her producers is a scientologist (which is hilariously not true). sorry for maybe spreading bad information like that.
posted by nadawi at 11:02 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by nadawi at 11:02 AM on August 3, 2015
but it's always struck me as profoundly odd just how bent out of shape the anti-Scientologists get; not that they get bent out of shape, but the degree to which they do. It's almost like they think that everything Tom Cruise or Elizabeth Moss or John Travolta or Kirstie Alley or whoever even just touches has Xenu Cooties or something.
Calling it cooties seems really dismissive when people right in this thread are pointing out some pretty horrific behavior on Cruise's part.
(I didn't really know all of that, Eyebrows McGee, thanks for the info! I'm really glad Holmes and Suri made their escape)
posted by JenMarie at 11:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Calling it cooties seems really dismissive when people right in this thread are pointing out some pretty horrific behavior on Cruise's part.
(I didn't really know all of that, Eyebrows McGee, thanks for the info! I'm really glad Holmes and Suri made their escape)
posted by JenMarie at 11:34 AM on August 3, 2015 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist.
It's a little different when you're raised in a group like that, though. He didn't willingly become a member and he doesn't seem to put a huge spin on it.
Well he endorsed Narconon and its "90 percent success rate" which is uhhhh but he doesn't really spout off about it unprompted. You do have to feel for people who were born into it like that - and of course for regular people who get sucked into it - because no matter what it's not easy to leave. There are some legit reasons people distrust celebrity/wealthy Scientologists, though, because CoS has a calculated strategy of rolling out the red carpet (at the expense of ordinary members) in order leverage them for recruitment, PR, money and influence.
I mean, I get feeling that the likes of 4chan are in this for lulz and petty moral superiority over any lasting commitment to helping people. I just don't have that much patience for "how are they different from any other religion??" at this point. Read/watch some ex-member testimony.
posted by atoxyl at 11:38 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
It's a little different when you're raised in a group like that, though. He didn't willingly become a member and he doesn't seem to put a huge spin on it.
Well he endorsed Narconon and its "90 percent success rate" which is uhhhh but he doesn't really spout off about it unprompted. You do have to feel for people who were born into it like that - and of course for regular people who get sucked into it - because no matter what it's not easy to leave. There are some legit reasons people distrust celebrity/wealthy Scientologists, though, because CoS has a calculated strategy of rolling out the red carpet (at the expense of ordinary members) in order leverage them for recruitment, PR, money and influence.
I mean, I get feeling that the likes of 4chan are in this for lulz and petty moral superiority over any lasting commitment to helping people. I just don't have that much patience for "how are they different from any other religion??" at this point. Read/watch some ex-member testimony.
posted by atoxyl at 11:38 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Do Beck's lyrics make more sense to Scientologists? #nojoke I'm genuinely interested in criticism of media by & for Scientologists. Freedom, the voice of Scientology, seems only to care about media in the context of the organization being attacked. Maybe there's some shadowy corner of the blogosphere where people discuss the spiritual import of cold brains but my googling so far has come up short.
posted by Lorin at 11:40 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by Lorin at 11:40 AM on August 3, 2015
Do Beck's lyrics make more sense to Scientologists?
Beck's lyrics aren't particularly weird. Beck's weird lyrics are weird, but it's pretty clearly just an aesthetic mode he fucks around in sometimes. For every Midnight Vultures there's a Sea Change. The guy's a thoughtful, coherent songwriter at the baseline.
posted by cortex at 11:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Beck's lyrics aren't particularly weird. Beck's weird lyrics are weird, but it's pretty clearly just an aesthetic mode he fucks around in sometimes. For every Midnight Vultures there's a Sea Change. The guy's a thoughtful, coherent songwriter at the baseline.
posted by cortex at 11:44 AM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
And if you believe the claims of people like former head creep Marty Rathbun, Cruise isn't Joe-Caught-Up-in-the-Scam or Beck-Born-Into-It but Tom in an odd paranoid bro-dance with a mercurial, controlling cult leader who aids and abets his own abusive behavior.
posted by atoxyl at 11:46 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by atoxyl at 11:46 AM on August 3, 2015
Will Smith is not a Scientologist.
posted by girlmightlive at 11:51 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by girlmightlive at 11:51 AM on August 3, 2015
Do Beck's lyrics make more sense to Scientologists?
They started making more sense to me once I discovered he was a Scientologist. That is, with the exception of some of the heartfelt relationship stuff, I'm pretty sure there's not really anything there beyond mucking around with wordplay etc. In other words, I'm left cold.
posted by philip-random at 11:53 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
They started making more sense to me once I discovered he was a Scientologist. That is, with the exception of some of the heartfelt relationship stuff, I'm pretty sure there's not really anything there beyond mucking around with wordplay etc. In other words, I'm left cold.
posted by philip-random at 11:53 AM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Calling it cooties seems really dismissive when people right in this thread are pointing out some pretty horrific behavior on Cruise's part.
On the other hand, it seems awfully apt when you see someone go from "gee, I love [insert actor name here], did you see them in that movie where - wait, what? S/he's a Scientologist? EEWWWWWW!"
Again, this isn't a specific comment on Cruise's behavior at all. This is a specific comment on other people's reactions I've seen when they find out about someone being a Scientologist. Not necessarily anyone in this thread, and not necessarily Tom Cruise, but I have indeed seen this. Which, to me, suggests that for whatever reason, some people think it is acceptable to condemn someone based on a religion rather than condemning them for their actions. Hating Tom Cruise "because he kept Nicole from seeing her own kids" or "because he dissed Brooke Shields" is actually different than "because he's a Scientologist".
Hell, at least samizdata admits that this is a prejudiced reaction, which somehow feels more intellectually honest.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:53 AM on August 3, 2015
On the other hand, it seems awfully apt when you see someone go from "gee, I love [insert actor name here], did you see them in that movie where - wait, what? S/he's a Scientologist? EEWWWWWW!"
Again, this isn't a specific comment on Cruise's behavior at all. This is a specific comment on other people's reactions I've seen when they find out about someone being a Scientologist. Not necessarily anyone in this thread, and not necessarily Tom Cruise, but I have indeed seen this. Which, to me, suggests that for whatever reason, some people think it is acceptable to condemn someone based on a religion rather than condemning them for their actions. Hating Tom Cruise "because he kept Nicole from seeing her own kids" or "because he dissed Brooke Shields" is actually different than "because he's a Scientologist".
Hell, at least samizdata admits that this is a prejudiced reaction, which somehow feels more intellectually honest.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:53 AM on August 3, 2015
Yikes. I seem to have stepped onto a soapbox without looking; I'll get out of here. Sorry.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:55 AM on August 3, 2015
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:55 AM on August 3, 2015
the smith family seem to pick up a lot of different beliefs and philosophies without being members or die hards for any one thing. i wouldn't be surprised if they found something in scientology that they found useful, in much the same way that the idea of indigo children seems to have inspired willow.
posted by nadawi at 12:03 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 12:03 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Beck's lyrics aren't particularly weird. Beck's weird lyrics are weird, but it's pretty clearly just an aesthetic mode he fucks around in sometimes.
Totally, not meant as your typically reflexive dismissal of Beck as a songwriter. I love his songwriting. Heck I love it enough to go digging through the Scientology garbage pile. Not that I'm digging for reasons not to like him—I'm satisfied with my own private calculus regarding problematic media ... Anyways! He's just been so silent about his relationship with the CoS, there's this itch about the possibility of some hidden structure, meaning, references only available to the faithful. The whole thing about going clear and my vague images of a disciple going through the dictionary word by word, I see how that kind of obsessive attention to language is appealing to actors, and songwriters. There are no nonsense words.
posted by Lorin at 12:17 PM on August 3, 2015
Totally, not meant as your typically reflexive dismissal of Beck as a songwriter. I love his songwriting. Heck I love it enough to go digging through the Scientology garbage pile. Not that I'm digging for reasons not to like him—I'm satisfied with my own private calculus regarding problematic media ... Anyways! He's just been so silent about his relationship with the CoS, there's this itch about the possibility of some hidden structure, meaning, references only available to the faithful. The whole thing about going clear and my vague images of a disciple going through the dictionary word by word, I see how that kind of obsessive attention to language is appealing to actors, and songwriters. There are no nonsense words.
posted by Lorin at 12:17 PM on August 3, 2015
it's always struck me as profoundly odd just how bent out of shape the anti-Scientologists get; not that they get bent out of shape, but the degree to which they do
Why does it surprise you that people get bent out of shape that someone is a vocal and public supporter of an oppressive criminal organization?
You keep seeming to want to equate scientology with catholicism or hindu or some other actual no-shit religion. This is a factual error; you should be equating scientology with mafia organizations, outlaw cycle clubs, or white-power networks.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:19 PM on August 3, 2015 [17 favorites]
Why does it surprise you that people get bent out of shape that someone is a vocal and public supporter of an oppressive criminal organization?
You keep seeming to want to equate scientology with catholicism or hindu or some other actual no-shit religion. This is a factual error; you should be equating scientology with mafia organizations, outlaw cycle clubs, or white-power networks.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:19 PM on August 3, 2015 [17 favorites]
Hating Tom Cruise "because he kept Nicole from seeing her own kids" or "because he dissed Brooke Shields" is actually different than "because he's a Scientologist".
Well the point is that his treatment of the women in his life seems to be bound up with his particular (unique) position within CoS. But I said my bit already and I may be taking you as being the "how is this different from every other religion" person when you're just sticking up for people like Neil Gaiman, you sympathy for whom committed anti-Scientologists seem to share.
posted by atoxyl at 12:21 PM on August 3, 2015
Well the point is that his treatment of the women in his life seems to be bound up with his particular (unique) position within CoS. But I said my bit already and I may be taking you as being the "how is this different from every other religion" person when you're just sticking up for people like Neil Gaiman, you sympathy for whom committed anti-Scientologists seem to share.
posted by atoxyl at 12:21 PM on August 3, 2015
Edge of Tomorrow was great.
Yeah, no. I'm still not sure how they butchered All You Need Is Kill that badly.
posted by pan at 12:41 PM on August 3, 2015
Yeah, no. I'm still not sure how they butchered All You Need Is Kill that badly.
posted by pan at 12:41 PM on August 3, 2015
"Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise Crazy
Just be glad it's him, not you.
If you had Tom Cruise's troubles
You might be Tom Cruise Crazy too"
Had this in my head during this entire thread.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Just be glad it's him, not you.
If you had Tom Cruise's troubles
You might be Tom Cruise Crazy too"
Had this in my head during this entire thread.
posted by LEGO Damashii at 12:42 PM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
I found Cruise creepy and dull even back when he was young and not publicly a Xenuphile, and he's only gotten worse over the years. Top Gun was slickly directed enough to be tolerable, but I still didn't love it, and Risky Business failed to make me think he was in the slightest bit sexy.
This isn't anything retroactive, either -- I fully admit that I thought Mel Gibson was compelling and sexy back in the day, enough that I watched some of his more obscure stuff like Gallipolli and Mrs. Soffel.
posted by tavella at 12:45 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
This isn't anything retroactive, either -- I fully admit that I thought Mel Gibson was compelling and sexy back in the day, enough that I watched some of his more obscure stuff like Gallipolli and Mrs. Soffel.
posted by tavella at 12:45 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
"Tom Cruise is Tom Cruise Crazy
how I wish Beck wrote lyrics like this ...
posted by philip-random at 12:47 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
how I wish Beck wrote lyrics like this ...
posted by philip-random at 12:47 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Yeah, no. I'm still not sure how they butchered All You Need Is Kill that badly.
"This movie doesn't reflect that book I loved" isn't nearly the same thing as "This movie is objectively terrible." Most critics and audiences (this Cruise-averse individual included) liked it.
posted by psoas at 12:47 PM on August 3, 2015
"This movie doesn't reflect that book I loved" isn't nearly the same thing as "This movie is objectively terrible." Most critics and audiences (this Cruise-averse individual included) liked it.
posted by psoas at 12:47 PM on August 3, 2015
"This movie doesn't reflect that book I loved" isn't nearly the same thing as "This movie is objectively terrible." Most critics and audiences (this Cruise-averse individual included) liked it.
They've turned it into distilled Hollywood product and Tom Cruise vehicle. Normally, I deal, but it looks just enough like the original that I get this uncanny-valley-corpse thing for that movie.
Like, Hobbit Trilogy bad.
posted by pan at 1:22 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
They've turned it into distilled Hollywood product and Tom Cruise vehicle. Normally, I deal, but it looks just enough like the original that I get this uncanny-valley-corpse thing for that movie.
Like, Hobbit Trilogy bad.
posted by pan at 1:22 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Those of you who say you shun Cruise because "if I give him money he'll give it to Scientology so no"
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
But there's an important difference here. Tom Cruise's donations apparently make up a significant chunk of the Churgh of Scientology's income. If Tom Cruise stopped giving them money tomorrow, they'd feel the pain. On the other hand, if Mel Gibson stopped giving the Catholic Church money tomorrow, it wouldn't hurt the church financially at all.
Also, Tom Cruise's star power really helps with Scientology recruiting. The Church of Scientology has a whole sub-organization dedicated to making their celebrity members happy, because they know that the celebrities help them recruit paying rank and file members.
And then there's the fact that Scientology really is evil in a way that the Catholic Church is not (at least not nowadays).
tl;dr: Giving money to Tom Cruise directly helps the Church of Scientology to hurt its victims.
posted by The pets.com Mascot at 2:25 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
Do you also avoid Mel Gibson movies on the grounds that he'll just give his money to the Cathilic Church?
But there's an important difference here. Tom Cruise's donations apparently make up a significant chunk of the Churgh of Scientology's income. If Tom Cruise stopped giving them money tomorrow, they'd feel the pain. On the other hand, if Mel Gibson stopped giving the Catholic Church money tomorrow, it wouldn't hurt the church financially at all.
Also, Tom Cruise's star power really helps with Scientology recruiting. The Church of Scientology has a whole sub-organization dedicated to making their celebrity members happy, because they know that the celebrities help them recruit paying rank and file members.
And then there's the fact that Scientology really is evil in a way that the Catholic Church is not (at least not nowadays).
tl;dr: Giving money to Tom Cruise directly helps the Church of Scientology to hurt its victims.
posted by The pets.com Mascot at 2:25 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
And then there's the fact that Scientology really is evil in a way that the Catholic Church is not (at least not nowadays).
Well I suspect people who are making that comparison are thinking of the cover-up of sexual abuse by clergy, as well as stuff like Magdelene Asylums not all that long ago. But the thing about Scientology is that it starts drawing any ordinary person who signs up into an abusive incessant hard sell pretty much right away, pushes members to isolate themselves from outside influence, harasses those who leave, allegedly mines "confession" sessions for blackmail material and so on. All exploitation all the time. It's not that the Xenu story is silly - it's that you don't get to read it "officially" until you've "donated" something like ~$200,000. Or if you don't have that money, don't worry, you can always sign away your whole life to the church for "a billion years!" Has a representative of the Catholic Church ever told you that you won't be ready to learn the real deal about the Immaculate Conception until you've either tithed enough to buy a house or agreed to become a monk?
posted by atoxyl at 3:47 PM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
Well I suspect people who are making that comparison are thinking of the cover-up of sexual abuse by clergy, as well as stuff like Magdelene Asylums not all that long ago. But the thing about Scientology is that it starts drawing any ordinary person who signs up into an abusive incessant hard sell pretty much right away, pushes members to isolate themselves from outside influence, harasses those who leave, allegedly mines "confession" sessions for blackmail material and so on. All exploitation all the time. It's not that the Xenu story is silly - it's that you don't get to read it "officially" until you've "donated" something like ~$200,000. Or if you don't have that money, don't worry, you can always sign away your whole life to the church for "a billion years!" Has a representative of the Catholic Church ever told you that you won't be ready to learn the real deal about the Immaculate Conception until you've either tithed enough to buy a house or agreed to become a monk?
posted by atoxyl at 3:47 PM on August 3, 2015 [6 favorites]
How can you read something like this and NOT feel creeped and disgusted by Scientology?
posted by Windigo at 3:52 PM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Windigo at 3:52 PM on August 3, 2015 [5 favorites]
Some people in the news may excuse his abuse, but I refuse to be confused by Tom Cruise's ruse.
posted by dephlogisticated at 4:48 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dephlogisticated at 4:48 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, people don't get up in Beck's face about being a Scientologist. Or Laura Prepon or any number of other celebrity Scientologists. Because to the best of the public's knowledge, they haven't used their religion to abuse and denigrate other people.
Honestly they probably do? The Scientology community is not that big, and getting smaller, so anyone involved with it is probably complicit.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:01 PM on August 3, 2015
Honestly they probably do? The Scientology community is not that big, and getting smaller, so anyone involved with it is probably complicit.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:01 PM on August 3, 2015
JenMarie: "but it's always struck me as profoundly odd just how bent out of shape the anti-Scientologists get; not that they get bent out of shape, but the degree to which they do. It's almost like they think that everything Tom Cruise or Elizabeth Moss or John Travolta or Kirstie Alley or whoever even just touches has Xenu Cooties or something.
Calling it cooties seems really dismissive when people right in this thread are pointing out some pretty horrific behavior on Cruise's part.
(I didn't really know all of that, Eyebrows McGee, thanks for the info! I'm really glad Holmes and Suri made their escape)"
There's was a Scientology recruiting center on the same block as the coffee shop I used to hang out in when I lived in Santa Barbara. Think Hitler Youth that would not take no for an answer and never remembered you from the previous day. That's where my bile starts. Then there was spending money on L. Ron's scifi books. That's where it intensified. And that's before it transitioned from weird to evil as I learned more.
People can bitch about various churches being evil, but, other than say Westboro, I don't feel any of those churches have war plans for dealing with critics, the litigious background, or the history of abuses and deaths in the modern age (when we, in theory, know better.)
posted by Samizdata at 6:48 PM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Calling it cooties seems really dismissive when people right in this thread are pointing out some pretty horrific behavior on Cruise's part.
(I didn't really know all of that, Eyebrows McGee, thanks for the info! I'm really glad Holmes and Suri made their escape)"
There's was a Scientology recruiting center on the same block as the coffee shop I used to hang out in when I lived in Santa Barbara. Think Hitler Youth that would not take no for an answer and never remembered you from the previous day. That's where my bile starts. Then there was spending money on L. Ron's scifi books. That's where it intensified. And that's before it transitioned from weird to evil as I learned more.
People can bitch about various churches being evil, but, other than say Westboro, I don't feel any of those churches have war plans for dealing with critics, the litigious background, or the history of abuses and deaths in the modern age (when we, in theory, know better.)
posted by Samizdata at 6:48 PM on August 3, 2015 [3 favorites]
Hadn't read that Gawker article, but have done plenty of reading over the years about Scientology.
All I can say at this point is that so many people previously associated have come out saying bad things (that mesh coherently) and so many documents have been leaked that there must be some major issues.
I may admit I am prejudiced against Scientology, but I will also admit it is NOT from ignorance. This is why I am as SP as SP can be.
(Seriously, at this point, I could most probably convince anyone I was ex-Co$ if I wanted to.)
posted by Samizdata at 7:04 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
All I can say at this point is that so many people previously associated have come out saying bad things (that mesh coherently) and so many documents have been leaked that there must be some major issues.
I may admit I am prejudiced against Scientology, but I will also admit it is NOT from ignorance. This is why I am as SP as SP can be.
(Seriously, at this point, I could most probably convince anyone I was ex-Co$ if I wanted to.)
posted by Samizdata at 7:04 PM on August 3, 2015 [2 favorites]
"so anyone involved with it is probably complicit."
We do know from stories of a few actors and actresses who have left Scientology, that it is VERY DIFFICULT to do so. They often grab young actors and actresses, introduce them to famous people, agents, help their career along, and a lot of the early Scientology stuff is pretty useful self-help for someone in a creative profession. Then the e-readings you do, where you basically confess all your sins to a church official while hooked up to a low-grade lie detector, as you start purging yourself -- they save all of that. Meanwhile they surround you with scientologists in the entertainment industry and try to make your career dependent upon them, while cutting you off from people outside Scientology. Five years later, when you're like, look, this is getting a little too creepy for me, they remind you they have recordings of every bad thing you ever did in your life and do you REALLY want to leave the church and have those stories become public? There's even quite a bit of chatter that John Travolta (who hardly ever mentions Scientology any more) is only still a member because of the blackmail. Several young actor and actresses have said they basically had to allow Scientology to blow up their careers to get out. So when especially a younger actor is identified as a scientologist but doesn't ever want to talk about it in interviews, I suspect they may not want to be scientologists any more but it's easier to just go quiet and let Scientology crow about having you as a famous member than to actually leave.
(And yeah, I know a surprising amount about Katie Holmes' s divorce, I must have been intensively reading gossip magazines during that period!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:06 PM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
We do know from stories of a few actors and actresses who have left Scientology, that it is VERY DIFFICULT to do so. They often grab young actors and actresses, introduce them to famous people, agents, help their career along, and a lot of the early Scientology stuff is pretty useful self-help for someone in a creative profession. Then the e-readings you do, where you basically confess all your sins to a church official while hooked up to a low-grade lie detector, as you start purging yourself -- they save all of that. Meanwhile they surround you with scientologists in the entertainment industry and try to make your career dependent upon them, while cutting you off from people outside Scientology. Five years later, when you're like, look, this is getting a little too creepy for me, they remind you they have recordings of every bad thing you ever did in your life and do you REALLY want to leave the church and have those stories become public? There's even quite a bit of chatter that John Travolta (who hardly ever mentions Scientology any more) is only still a member because of the blackmail. Several young actor and actresses have said they basically had to allow Scientology to blow up their careers to get out. So when especially a younger actor is identified as a scientologist but doesn't ever want to talk about it in interviews, I suspect they may not want to be scientologists any more but it's easier to just go quiet and let Scientology crow about having you as a famous member than to actually leave.
(And yeah, I know a surprising amount about Katie Holmes' s divorce, I must have been intensively reading gossip magazines during that period!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:06 PM on August 3, 2015 [7 favorites]
He's the 21st Centuries Charlton Heston. Serviceable actor, nothing to write home about...
Heston was more versatile, and it's not even close. I don't think Heston was as good as the amazingly underrated Burt Lancaster, but I'd put him a rung above Kirk Douglas, and I think he's every bit the equal of Paul Newman. As for Cruise, I'd put him on the same level as Tony Curtis.
posted by Beholder at 8:07 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
Heston was more versatile, and it's not even close. I don't think Heston was as good as the amazingly underrated Burt Lancaster, but I'd put him a rung above Kirk Douglas, and I think he's every bit the equal of Paul Newman. As for Cruise, I'd put him on the same level as Tony Curtis.
posted by Beholder at 8:07 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
He's not bad at all in Khartoum, even working an upper class Brit accent.
posted by philip-random at 8:53 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by philip-random at 8:53 PM on August 3, 2015
Just..... read Going Clear. Because I just finished it, and I can't really enjoy a Cruise movie ever again.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:01 PM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by lumpenprole at 9:01 PM on August 3, 2015 [4 favorites]
He was brilliant as Lestat. Everything else? Meh.
I absolutely love that he was Bale's inspiration for the Patrick Bateman character. Makes total sense. IIRC from the horrifying Bret Easton Ellis book, Cruise lived in Bateman's building and Bateman once said something to Cruise like "I loved you in Bartender."
posted by hush at 10:10 PM on August 3, 2015
I absolutely love that he was Bale's inspiration for the Patrick Bateman character. Makes total sense. IIRC from the horrifying Bret Easton Ellis book, Cruise lived in Bateman's building and Bateman once said something to Cruise like "I loved you in Bartender."
posted by hush at 10:10 PM on August 3, 2015
> As for Cruise, I'd put him on the same level as Tony Curtis.
I was about to get pretty huffy about this denigration of a fine actor who's no longer alive to defend himself, but then I realized I was actually thinking of Jack Klugman instead of Tony Curtis and now I have to figure out how I got those two mixed up.
posted by cardioid at 10:17 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was about to get pretty huffy about this denigration of a fine actor who's no longer alive to defend himself, but then I realized I was actually thinking of Jack Klugman instead of Tony Curtis and now I have to figure out how I got those two mixed up.
posted by cardioid at 10:17 PM on August 3, 2015 [1 favorite]
in Tony Curtis's defense, he wasn't a Scientologist. Also, the Great Leslie ...
posted by philip-random at 10:37 PM on August 3, 2015
posted by philip-random at 10:37 PM on August 3, 2015
At some point Cruise will have to admit that he's middle-aged and that these action movies are starting to look more and more silly as he ages into his fifties.
In a universe where A Good Day to Die Hard didn't get made and Liam Neeson's Non-Stop was a Flomax commercial, that argument would carry more weight.
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:47 AM on August 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
In a universe where A Good Day to Die Hard didn't get made and Liam Neeson's Non-Stop was a Flomax commercial, that argument would carry more weight.
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:47 AM on August 4, 2015 [4 favorites]
Just..... read Going Clear. Because I just finished it, and I can't really enjoy a Cruise movie ever again.
True story: when Going Clear was released, Amazon.co.uk was not selling it so I had to purchase a copy here in Canada to bring to a good friend in London who is fascinated with the trainwreck that is Scientology.
posted by Kitteh at 6:22 AM on August 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
True story: when Going Clear was released, Amazon.co.uk was not selling it so I had to purchase a copy here in Canada to bring to a good friend in London who is fascinated with the trainwreck that is Scientology.
posted by Kitteh at 6:22 AM on August 4, 2015 [3 favorites]
As for Cruise, I'd put him on the same level as Tony Curtis
Watch Sweet Smell Of Success and say that again.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:16 AM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Watch Sweet Smell Of Success and say that again.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:16 AM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Tom Cruise would be perfect for the Sidney Falco role in Sweet Smell of Success. He has the amoral ambition the character requires.
posted by maxsparber at 9:22 AM on August 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maxsparber at 9:22 AM on August 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Tom Cruise would be perfect for the Sidney Falco role in Sweet Smell of Success. He has the amoral ambition the character requires.
But never the desperation. Never the fluidity of character. Never the undercurrent of terror.
Tom Cruise had one trick for years. He was reasonably good at going from a boy to a man on screen. That's why every film had him go from a boy to a man by use of his BLANK. Jet flying skills, race car skills, cocktail skills, ability to handle the truth.
His mature years have shown some interesting roles. I liked Collateral, but he was just playing an extreme version of the end state in all his earlier movies. Same with Magnolia. He was funny in Tropic Thunder, for sure.
But these later ones are desperation moves to be taken more seriously as an actor. And seriously, read Going Clear. The church has operated as a personal Tom Cruise life vehicle for a long time while condoning torture and child abuse among it's members.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:29 AM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
But never the desperation. Never the fluidity of character. Never the undercurrent of terror.
Tom Cruise had one trick for years. He was reasonably good at going from a boy to a man on screen. That's why every film had him go from a boy to a man by use of his BLANK. Jet flying skills, race car skills, cocktail skills, ability to handle the truth.
His mature years have shown some interesting roles. I liked Collateral, but he was just playing an extreme version of the end state in all his earlier movies. Same with Magnolia. He was funny in Tropic Thunder, for sure.
But these later ones are desperation moves to be taken more seriously as an actor. And seriously, read Going Clear. The church has operated as a personal Tom Cruise life vehicle for a long time while condoning torture and child abuse among it's members.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:29 AM on August 4, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh, I think he could do the desperation. Although, in fairness, he would represent it mostly by running really, really, really fast for far longer than you think necessary.
Watch me run a 50-yard dash with my legs cut off!
posted by maxsparber at 9:40 AM on August 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Watch me run a 50-yard dash with my legs cut off!
posted by maxsparber at 9:40 AM on August 4, 2015 [1 favorite]
Going to a Cruise movie is like voting for Donald Trump because he makes politics more entertaining. Do not encourage the terrible people.
Argh. You're right of course. In my defense, I do only...uhh...purloin his films.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:41 PM on August 4, 2015
Argh. You're right of course. In my defense, I do only...uhh...purloin his films.
posted by turbid dahlia at 4:41 PM on August 4, 2015
Extremely foul-mouthed bald-headed Hollywood producer who does this weird rhumba dance about buying expensive airplanes in Tropic Thunder, that's totally brilliant!
My not knowing who portrays him until the credits roll therefore absolves me from any ethical conundrum relating to the possibility of my aesthetic appreciation of an artist's talent being tainted by the artist's dubious ethical/political non-artistic associations!
(I used to think that Cruise was very over-rated as a super-star-actor. Now I'm beginning to think that he's actually really good at the craft that he does for a living. But no love for the COS, of course.)
posted by ovvl at 6:14 PM on August 4, 2015
My not knowing who portrays him until the credits roll therefore absolves me from any ethical conundrum relating to the possibility of my aesthetic appreciation of an artist's talent being tainted by the artist's dubious ethical/political non-artistic associations!
(I used to think that Cruise was very over-rated as a super-star-actor. Now I'm beginning to think that he's actually really good at the craft that he does for a living. But no love for the COS, of course.)
posted by ovvl at 6:14 PM on August 4, 2015
(Paul F. Tompkins at a script reading for Magnolia)
Tom Cruise: Hi! I'm Tom.
Paul: Hi, THE MOST FAMOUS PERSON IN THE WORLD. I'm Paul.
(later, after Paul misses a few lines)
Tom Cruise: You gotta pick up on those cues, buddy! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Paul (to self): do i really need this from you right now
posted by ostranenie at 8:39 PM on August 4, 2015
Tom Cruise: Hi! I'm Tom.
Paul: Hi, THE MOST FAMOUS PERSON IN THE WORLD. I'm Paul.
(later, after Paul misses a few lines)
Tom Cruise: You gotta pick up on those cues, buddy! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Paul (to self): do i really need this from you right now
posted by ostranenie at 8:39 PM on August 4, 2015
While I don't like Cruise as a person, and not only because of the Metafilter incident, I don't boycott his work. Just seems like too blunt of a tool. But I don't search out his work either. However I ended up watching Jack Reacher by accident one night on Netflix and enjoyed it enough to read Lee Child's back catalogue. Amazingly the movie was IMO better than the book it was derived from and is also one of the weakest books in the Jack Reacher canon.
posted by Mitheral at 5:14 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 5:14 PM on August 9, 2015 [1 favorite]
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