Catfishing in Amazon: looking for truth in cloudy waters of fake reviews
October 27, 2015 9:16 PM Subscribe
Do you know Dagny Taggart? She's a character in Atlas Shrugged. She's also a best selling author of language learning ebooks on Amazon. According to her bio, she speaks 15 languages, which she picked up in her life of traveling the world. There's just one problem: the author Dagny Taggart doesn't exist. She is the pen name for a group of anonymous authors who were hired by an Argentine "Amazon entrepreneur" and a follower of k(indle) money get rich schemes.
As noted in the Washington Post article, Amazon has cracked down on fake reviewers in its endless game of whack-a-mole against the myriad of "quick money" schemes, and most recently pulling all Dagny Taggart books.
If you're suspicious of an author and their bio, Caitlin Dewey, who wrote the The Washington Post article, notes these fake authors rarely exist beyond Amazon, so a quick internet search should be enough to debunk their existence, let alone credentials.
As noted in the Washington Post article, Amazon has cracked down on fake reviewers in its endless game of whack-a-mole against the myriad of "quick money" schemes, and most recently pulling all Dagny Taggart books.
If you're suspicious of an author and their bio, Caitlin Dewey, who wrote the The Washington Post article, notes these fake authors rarely exist beyond Amazon, so a quick internet search should be enough to debunk their existence, let alone credentials.
If you're looking for obscure things (e.g., particular villages) on Amazon, your results are swamped by automatically-generated e-books of Wikipedia articles. It's a shame, because Amazon's text-searches would otherwise make it a great research tool.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:48 PM on October 27, 2015
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:48 PM on October 27, 2015
I picked up a travel guide at a bookstore that was a Wikipedia article for a particular city, padded by the entire Wikipedia article for "City". Apparently these exist in meatspace too.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:14 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:14 PM on October 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Atlas Mugged
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:27 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 10:27 PM on October 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
Something something invisible hand.
posted by gottabefunky at 10:55 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by gottabefunky at 10:55 PM on October 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
As much as I've enjoyed Hugh Howey and "The Martian" I'd be extremely happy if Amazon had a checkbox for "Don't show self-published Kindle books" when I search. There's just a ton of shovelware books in their catalog that make it hard to find anything good, and review scams like this don't make it easier.
posted by mmoncur at 11:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by mmoncur at 11:20 PM on October 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
It must be noted, though, that Amazon technically also profits off its catfish: For every dollar someone like Pylarinos or Marrocco makes off the Kindle store, Amazon makes $1.86.
Normally the first point of call when investigating a scam is to look at who stands to make the most. Howerver much the catfishers are making, it is apparently dwarfed by the income their schemes generate for Amazon.
posted by rongorongo at 1:11 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Normally the first point of call when investigating a scam is to look at who stands to make the most. Howerver much the catfishers are making, it is apparently dwarfed by the income their schemes generate for Amazon.
posted by rongorongo at 1:11 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
You will have to pay high indemnizaciones.
I do love a hotshot lawyer.
posted by colie at 1:31 AM on October 28, 2015
I do love a hotshot lawyer.
posted by colie at 1:31 AM on October 28, 2015
Here’s again Foci for Analysis
I expect the moderador to post a public disculpa WITHIN THE NEXT 3 HOURS for allowing this defamatory fpp in the first place. THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE!
have a good day
posted by Foci for Analysis at 2:43 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I expect the moderador to post a public disculpa WITHIN THE NEXT 3 HOURS for allowing this defamatory fpp in the first place. THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE!
have a good day
posted by Foci for Analysis at 2:43 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Do you know Dagny Taggart? She's a character in Atlas Shrugged.
I was skimming and momentarily read that as Daenerys Targaryen, which would add depth to both Atlas Shrugged and Game of Thrones.
I long ago stopped looking at the reviews on Amazon because of their almost universal uselessness; it doesn't surprise me that people are extending that to the books themselves.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:51 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I was skimming and momentarily read that as Daenerys Targaryen, which would add depth to both Atlas Shrugged and Game of Thrones.
I long ago stopped looking at the reviews on Amazon because of their almost universal uselessness; it doesn't surprise me that people are extending that to the books themselves.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:51 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
"He disagrees that this practice is unethical"
(... from Megami's Forbes link)
posted by oheso at 5:01 AM on October 28, 2015
(... from Megami's Forbes link)
posted by oheso at 5:01 AM on October 28, 2015
In the realm of worthlessness of reviews of self-published books, I know someone who mercilessly pressured people she knew to give a positive review on Amazon, which resulted in over 50 five star reviews, many of whom never even read the book, just did it to get her to leave them alone. I would not take so many extravagant praise-laden reviews seriously again for a self-published work.
posted by mermayd at 5:28 AM on October 28, 2015
posted by mermayd at 5:28 AM on October 28, 2015
As a person looking to self-publish some small market, specialized books via Kindle (etc.) and print on demand, this is deeply frustrating. Thanks for helping make my product look bad too.
posted by LastOfHisKind at 5:55 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by LastOfHisKind at 5:55 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
The books she writes are full of errors because they are written by a person (or perhaps a group of people) that doesn't actually speak the language and is just copying and writing in her own words what she learns from free language learning websites.
Which is hardly a new business model.
posted by acb at 7:07 AM on October 28, 2015
Which is hardly a new business model.
posted by acb at 7:07 AM on October 28, 2015
Normally the first point of call when investigating a scam is to look at who stands to make the most. Howerver much the catfishers are making, it is apparently dwarfed by the income their schemes generate for Amazon.
I heard this point made on NPR, but after your comment, I was thinking on this. Amazon makes a ton of money from books, including ebooks. With physical books, there there are a myriad of costs related to receiving, storing and delivering, with an additional percentage that will go to lost or damaged goods, further eating into the revenue. But with ebooks, it's server space, bandwidth, and web store management (displaying and promoting, managing feedback).
I wonder if anyone has rough calculations on what the actual gains are on ebooks? Also, books (physical and digital) are only one aspect of the total Amazon empire. Are ebooks and other digital goods offsetting the break-even sales on things like small items with free shipping to anyone? I know a lot of this information would be protected as trade secrets, but I'm sure someone has done general calculations based on estimations.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:21 AM on October 28, 2015
I heard this point made on NPR, but after your comment, I was thinking on this. Amazon makes a ton of money from books, including ebooks. With physical books, there there are a myriad of costs related to receiving, storing and delivering, with an additional percentage that will go to lost or damaged goods, further eating into the revenue. But with ebooks, it's server space, bandwidth, and web store management (displaying and promoting, managing feedback).
I wonder if anyone has rough calculations on what the actual gains are on ebooks? Also, books (physical and digital) are only one aspect of the total Amazon empire. Are ebooks and other digital goods offsetting the break-even sales on things like small items with free shipping to anyone? I know a lot of this information would be protected as trade secrets, but I'm sure someone has done general calculations based on estimations.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:21 AM on October 28, 2015
The books she writes are full of errors because they are written by a person (or perhaps a group of people) that doesn't actually speak the language and is just copying and writing in her own words what she learns from free language learning websites.
Which is hardly a new business model.
No, it's not a novel approach (heh), but rather the sheer number of books published as a single "author" (tied back to a single real individual) is what makes this different (and something I realize I didn't highlight in the OP). From the Washington Post article:
LastOfHisKind: As a person looking to self-publish some small market, specialized books via Kindle (etc.) and print on demand, this is deeply frustrating. Thanks for helping make my product look bad too.
I agree, this and those Wikipedia compilations are casting a shadow over all self-published books, putting more pressure on self-publishers to promote themselves through other venues (topic-related blogs and websites, conferences and gatherings), which takes a lot more work than sending review copies to elicit reviews.
It would be interesting if Amazon added a "flag media for review" option for registered Amazon users, allowing people to do more than leave bad reviews. But that would require Amazon to dedicate more staff to manage their (e)book section.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:34 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
Which is hardly a new business model.
No, it's not a novel approach (heh), but rather the sheer number of books published as a single "author" (tied back to a single real individual) is what makes this different (and something I realize I didn't highlight in the OP). From the Washington Post article:
In the past year, she has written a new book at the rate of about one every five days: 84 books in total. All of them have gotten glowing reviews from her hordes of Amazon groupies, who leave 5-star reviews on everything she does.But it's all fake, and s/he is just one of many such "shovelware" authors who pump up their own titles with purchased reviews.
LastOfHisKind: As a person looking to self-publish some small market, specialized books via Kindle (etc.) and print on demand, this is deeply frustrating. Thanks for helping make my product look bad too.
I agree, this and those Wikipedia compilations are casting a shadow over all self-published books, putting more pressure on self-publishers to promote themselves through other venues (topic-related blogs and websites, conferences and gatherings), which takes a lot more work than sending review copies to elicit reviews.
It would be interesting if Amazon added a "flag media for review" option for registered Amazon users, allowing people to do more than leave bad reviews. But that would require Amazon to dedicate more staff to manage their (e)book section.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:34 AM on October 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
So... it appears now that the whole enterprise was a greed-driven scam?
This is like, 90% of things tho
posted by The Whelk at 9:09 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
This is like, 90% of things tho
posted by The Whelk at 9:09 AM on October 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
mmoncur: "As much as I've enjoyed Hugh Howey and "The Martian" I'd be extremely happy if Amazon had a checkbox for "Don't show self-published Kindle books" when I search. There's just a ton of shovelware books in their catalog that make it hard to find anything good, and review scams like this don't make it easier."
I've been making an effort to write thorough and detailed reviews for small-press and self-published ebooks I enjoy, partly so that people looking for good indie ebooks can see some real-person reviews, because the bought reviews and the "5-star friends-and-family" reviews just swamp real reviews on small books. Even when the book's quality is so-so, if I am happy I bought it I'll give a three-star review and say so -- the quality control here is eh, but the book was really entertaining and I can forgive the weak characters because the plot was so hugely entertaining, or whatever.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:39 AM on October 28, 2015
I've been making an effort to write thorough and detailed reviews for small-press and self-published ebooks I enjoy, partly so that people looking for good indie ebooks can see some real-person reviews, because the bought reviews and the "5-star friends-and-family" reviews just swamp real reviews on small books. Even when the book's quality is so-so, if I am happy I bought it I'll give a three-star review and say so -- the quality control here is eh, but the book was really entertaining and I can forgive the weak characters because the plot was so hugely entertaining, or whatever.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:39 AM on October 28, 2015
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posted by namespan at 9:38 PM on October 27, 2015 [5 favorites]