the end of Grantland
October 30, 2015 11:21 AM Subscribe
ESPN is suspending publication of Grantland, effective immediately. The ambitious website hosted writing from a long list of witty, intelligent contributors on sports and pop culture, including Rembert Browne, Katie Baker, Mark Harris, Molly Lambert, and Mark Lisanti. Grantland was launched by Bill Simmons, whose contract with ESPN was not renewed earlier this year after almost 15 years with the company after Simmons was publicly critical of ESPN and the NFL.
Unfortunate but not at all surprising. Disney is an unrelenting scumbag corporation. Long live Bill Simmons.
posted by nevercalm at 11:25 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by nevercalm at 11:25 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Pretty startling decision. Whether or not Grantland is profitable (unsure on this point), it's definitely got a substantial web presence and impact. I predict this is just another in a series of missteps for ESPN.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:26 AM on October 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 11:26 AM on October 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
You'd think that there would be value in a sale, at a minimum.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:27 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Existential Dread at 11:27 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
That's tragic.
posted by chavenet at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Grantland distinguished itself with quality writing, smart ideas, original thinking and fun.
And we here at ESPN do not want anyone to think we support that.
posted by The Bellman at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2015 [52 favorites]
And we here at ESPN do not want anyone to think we support that.
posted by The Bellman at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2015 [52 favorites]
Does ESPN have any competition for sports programming coverage?
posted by Going To Maine at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2015
posted by Going To Maine at 11:28 AM on October 30, 2015
Also: The Hairpin's editors are leaving.
posted by maudlin at 11:29 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by maudlin at 11:29 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does ESPN have any competition for sports programming coverage?
The networks still have a bit more money to throw around for the big items (NFL football, World Series), and Fox Sports is trying, but essentially, no. ESPN is the game.
posted by Etrigan at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015
The networks still have a bit more money to throw around for the big items (NFL football, World Series), and Fox Sports is trying, but essentially, no. ESPN is the game.
posted by Etrigan at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015
(Their final blog entry has a very sad "LIke us on Facebook" pop-up.)
posted by maudlin at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015
posted by maudlin at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015
Molly Lambert's writing on Mad Men and Rembert Browne's writing on everything (but my favorites were his traveling to Ferguson and his piece about the Grown Folks dance night) were consistently great. Thankfully I suspect they both have very long careers ahead of them.
posted by sallybrown at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
It's a shame, and it's really heartless of Disney to do this without directly speaking to their staff and without warning. I hope many of the talented writers they had find new gigs soon (Zach Lowe especially since the NBA season just started and he's in a class by himself when it comes to writing about the league).
Outside of live games, I now officially have zero use for the shitpot ESPN has become, which is kind of nice.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Outside of live games, I now officially have zero use for the shitpot ESPN has become, which is kind of nice.
posted by Ufez Jones at 11:30 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
We certainly do seem to be in the great "getting paid for thoughtful writing on the internet" collapse.
Does ESPN have any competition for sports programming coverage?
Plenty, but ESPN has always distinguished themselves in being their own most effective adversary.
posted by selfnoise at 11:32 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Does ESPN have any competition for sports programming coverage?
Plenty, but ESPN has always distinguished themselves in being their own most effective adversary.
posted by selfnoise at 11:32 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also: The Hairpin's editors are leaving.
My understanding is that the Hairpin is meant to have an ever-changing set of editors - as kind of a springboard for women who write online to higher-profile platforms. Haley and Alex were like their fourth set of editors since 2010.
posted by muddgirl at 11:32 AM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
My understanding is that the Hairpin is meant to have an ever-changing set of editors - as kind of a springboard for women who write online to higher-profile platforms. Haley and Alex were like their fourth set of editors since 2010.
posted by muddgirl at 11:32 AM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Grantland was the only time I ever hit up an ESPN website. They published really great stuff. This is crap, but there are a lot of people who are going to write amazing things elsewhere, and I'm happy to click elsewhere.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:33 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 11:33 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Does ESPN have any competition for sports programming coverage
SI.com for one; there are a number of boutique sites gaining impact (Smart Football, kenpom.com, etc) for various sports.
A bigger question now is what fate does ESPN have in store for FiveThirtyEight?
posted by Existential Dread at 11:34 AM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
SI.com for one; there are a number of boutique sites gaining impact (Smart Football, kenpom.com, etc) for various sports.
A bigger question now is what fate does ESPN have in store for FiveThirtyEight?
posted by Existential Dread at 11:34 AM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, at least ESPN is honoring the Grantlanders' contracts and not cutting them loose.
posted by Cash4Lead at 11:35 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Cash4Lead at 11:35 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Noooooo. I loved Grantland - in particular Brian Phillips.
I suppose it was inevitable after Simons left but it is still sad.
Are there any other comparable sites I can read instead?
posted by nolnacs at 11:37 AM on October 30, 2015
I suppose it was inevitable after Simons left but it is still sad.
Are there any other comparable sites I can read instead?
posted by nolnacs at 11:37 AM on October 30, 2015
Disney is an unrelenting scumbag corporation. Long live Bill Simmons.
Disney didn't do this. I seriously doubt Disney would even bother to step in, give the size of Grantland. This is entirely on John Skipper at ESPN itself.
posted by eriko at 11:38 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Disney didn't do this. I seriously doubt Disney would even bother to step in, give the size of Grantland. This is entirely on John Skipper at ESPN itself.
posted by eriko at 11:38 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Wondering Sound, The Dissolve, now Grantland. Thoughtful, quality writing on the net appears to be unsustainable. How sad.
posted by naju at 11:39 AM on October 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by naju at 11:39 AM on October 30, 2015 [8 favorites]
Well, at least ESPN is honoring the Grantlanders' contracts and not cutting them loose.
I wonder what bizarre corner they're going to put the pop culture writing in.
posted by Copronymus at 11:39 AM on October 30, 2015
I wonder what bizarre corner they're going to put the pop culture writing in.
posted by Copronymus at 11:39 AM on October 30, 2015
This is so shitty. I love Grantland. (I don't want to use the past tense.)
Where will you go, Sean McIndoe? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you...
posted by saturday_morning at 11:40 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Where will you go, Sean McIndoe? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you...
posted by saturday_morning at 11:40 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I work in technology for ESPN at a satellite office in Seattle, and they're moving my team back to the headquarters in Bristol, CT as part of the recent restructuring. (It's a layoff by proxy; Bristol is not a great place to live and the tech market is slim pickings if we were to get caught in the inevitable 2017 layoffs, so I'm sure they're not expecting many of us to move)
Grantland is headquartered in Los Angeles. There's a definite push across the company to centralize operations to cut costs. FiveThirtyEight is in New York and ESPN needs to maintain a New York office, so I imagine that they're safe for now.
posted by Kwine at 11:40 AM on October 30, 2015 [13 favorites]
Grantland is headquartered in Los Angeles. There's a definite push across the company to centralize operations to cut costs. FiveThirtyEight is in New York and ESPN needs to maintain a New York office, so I imagine that they're safe for now.
posted by Kwine at 11:40 AM on October 30, 2015 [13 favorites]
Also, it appears that the writers found out via the twitter announcement like everyone else. What the fuck...
posted by naju at 11:41 AM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by naju at 11:41 AM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
This stinks, but we knew it was coming. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:42 AM on October 30, 2015
posted by kevinbelt at 11:42 AM on October 30, 2015
Grantland is headquartered in Los Angeles. There's a definite push across the company to centralize operations to cut costs. FiveThirtyEight is in New York and ESPN needs to maintain a New York office, so I imagine that they're safe for now.
2017 layoffs for FiveThirtyEight makes sense; it's after the election and Nate Silver's analysis is going to be valuable and high profile throughout 2016.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:43 AM on October 30, 2015
2017 layoffs for FiveThirtyEight makes sense; it's after the election and Nate Silver's analysis is going to be valuable and high profile throughout 2016.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:43 AM on October 30, 2015
A bigger question now is what fate does ESPN have in store for FiveThirtyEight?
Apparently it's still being supported, although who knows why since it's pretty mediocre overall. More hilariously, that tweet affirms ESPN's ongoing support for the incredible mess that is Black Grantland. I wouldn't count on either to last very long, though. I suspect the only reason they didn't get axed today is that they're cheaper.
posted by Copronymus at 11:44 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Apparently it's still being supported, although who knows why since it's pretty mediocre overall. More hilariously, that tweet affirms ESPN's ongoing support for the incredible mess that is Black Grantland. I wouldn't count on either to last very long, though. I suspect the only reason they didn't get axed today is that they're cheaper.
posted by Copronymus at 11:44 AM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
This sucks, but you could tell Grantland was still kind of trying to figure stuff out after Simmons left.
On the plus side, there's now nothing stopping Simmons from getting those folks back together at HBO. He was basically stealing all of Grantland's staff, anyway.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 11:44 AM on October 30, 2015
On the plus side, there's now nothing stopping Simmons from getting those folks back together at HBO. He was basically stealing all of Grantland's staff, anyway.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 11:44 AM on October 30, 2015
Disney is an unrelenting scumbag corporation. Long live Bill Simmons.
Disney didn't do this.
Disney is at least indirectly responsible for it:
posted by Etrigan at 11:46 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Disney didn't do this.
Disney is at least indirectly responsible for it:
Speculation about Grantland’s future also ramped up last week after ESPN laid off around 300 employees — many of them on the production and talent-development side — as a cost-cutting move in the wake of the spiraling television-rights costs combined with a shrinking subscriber base and demands from parent company Disney to maintain ESPN’s massive profits.Also from that article, I hadn't heard that Rembert Browne and Wesley Morris had actually left Grantland before this, but apparently that's the case.
posted by Etrigan at 11:46 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
You all can miss grantland, but I sure as hell don't
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:46 AM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:46 AM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Not surprising, but still disappointing. My corner of the internet continues to get smaller and smaller...
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:46 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:46 AM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
You all can miss grantland, but I sure as hell don't
We all failed. And ultimately, I failed the most because it’s my site and it was my call.posted by Etrigan at 11:50 AM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Moving forward, we appreciated the dialogue, we fully support everyone who expressed displeasure with the story, and we understand why some people mistakenly focused their criticisms on the writer instead of Grantland as a whole. We will learn from what happened. We will remember what Wooden said — “If you’re not making mistakes, you’re not doing anything” — and we’re going to keep trying to get better. That’s all we can do.
naju: "Wondering Sound, The Dissolve, now Grantland. Thoughtful, quality writing on the net appears to be unsustainable. How sad."
Ugh, you had to mention The Dissolve. That one still hurts.
posted by octothorpe at 11:50 AM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Ugh, you had to mention The Dissolve. That one still hurts.
posted by octothorpe at 11:50 AM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Disney is an unrelenting scumbag corporation. Long live Bill Simmons.
Disney didn't do this.
Disney is at least indirectly responsible for it
I've worked for Disney (at ABC) on and off for at least 20 years. Their ability to micromanage the smallest details from the farthest reaches of the Poisoned Kingdom is pretty legendary, right down to the size of the bagels in the studios. Once when a bank teller thought it was charming that I had Mickey Mouse on my check I asked her how she'd feel being fucked by a cartoon mouse. I'm sure this situation is no different, but perhaps the cause is a few levels removed.
posted by nevercalm at 11:51 AM on October 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
Disney didn't do this.
Disney is at least indirectly responsible for it
I've worked for Disney (at ABC) on and off for at least 20 years. Their ability to micromanage the smallest details from the farthest reaches of the Poisoned Kingdom is pretty legendary, right down to the size of the bagels in the studios. Once when a bank teller thought it was charming that I had Mickey Mouse on my check I asked her how she'd feel being fucked by a cartoon mouse. I'm sure this situation is no different, but perhaps the cause is a few levels removed.
posted by nevercalm at 11:51 AM on October 30, 2015 [11 favorites]
We certainly do seem to be in the great "getting paid for thoughtful writing on the internet" collapse.
Is this really surprising? The norms surrounding the economics of internet publishing are such that it is almost impossible to ask readers to pay anything (in fact they are bizarrely hostile to the very idea) and so we have a competition for advertising dollars, which necessitates lowest-common denominator bullshit and crappy user-hostile tech tricks (pop overs, autoplaying video ads, multi-page articles) to try and keep the business going another year. For editors that don't want to play that game, well, enjoy your intelligent highbrow publication for as long as you can keep it going.
posted by Automocar at 11:53 AM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Is this really surprising? The norms surrounding the economics of internet publishing are such that it is almost impossible to ask readers to pay anything (in fact they are bizarrely hostile to the very idea) and so we have a competition for advertising dollars, which necessitates lowest-common denominator bullshit and crappy user-hostile tech tricks (pop overs, autoplaying video ads, multi-page articles) to try and keep the business going another year. For editors that don't want to play that game, well, enjoy your intelligent highbrow publication for as long as you can keep it going.
posted by Automocar at 11:53 AM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Different reaction on Metafilter today than when it launched.
Obviously there were flaws, and fortunately Bill Simmons turned over editorial control over to other folks because he has mad flaws, but some really really great writing came out of that place and some really really good writers did some amazing things there. Not at all just sports, if anything it was their pop culture writing, especially Molly Lambert's, that made it shine. I'm for some reason devastated. Let's pray the archives don't all get deleted in a fit of pique by Skip Bayless.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:55 AM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
Obviously there were flaws, and fortunately Bill Simmons turned over editorial control over to other folks because he has mad flaws, but some really really great writing came out of that place and some really really good writers did some amazing things there. Not at all just sports, if anything it was their pop culture writing, especially Molly Lambert's, that made it shine. I'm for some reason devastated. Let's pray the archives don't all get deleted in a fit of pique by Skip Bayless.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 11:55 AM on October 30, 2015 [4 favorites]
If this marks the end of Sean McIndoe's singular hockey column I will shed bitter tears of sorrow.
posted by Fezboy! at 11:56 AM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Fezboy! at 11:56 AM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Can Simmons get Zach Lowe out to LA and find a platform for Molly Lambert? Ugh, sadness. That's about half of my podcast lineup gone in the past month too.
posted by MillMan at 12:00 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by MillMan at 12:00 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Long live Bill Simmons.
I've always wonder what exactly was Simmons's skill that allowed him to create such a quality website. Lord knows, his writing wasn't what was making Grantland great, but he apparently had a real skill for finding talented writers or managing them or something. Hopefully his HBO deal results in more of that and less of him forcing famous people to sit with him on camera while he awkwardly talks about the 80s Celtics.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:01 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've always wonder what exactly was Simmons's skill that allowed him to create such a quality website. Lord knows, his writing wasn't what was making Grantland great, but he apparently had a real skill for finding talented writers or managing them or something. Hopefully his HBO deal results in more of that and less of him forcing famous people to sit with him on camera while he awkwardly talks about the 80s Celtics.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:01 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
This guy I follow on twitter has some good responses to his question about the best Grantland pieces ever. (including my link to Metafilters 88 Grantland posts)
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:01 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:01 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Etrigan: I had heard that Rembert left, but they just published a "Rembert Explains" a couple of days ago, so maybe he had a backlog?
I've seen a few of Wesley Morris's pieces for the Times already. I haven't seen anything of Rembert's post-Grantland stuff yet, though.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:06 PM on October 30, 2015
I've seen a few of Wesley Morris's pieces for the Times already. I haven't seen anything of Rembert's post-Grantland stuff yet, though.
posted by kevinbelt at 12:06 PM on October 30, 2015
230 Metafilter posts mentioning Grantland.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:06 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:06 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've always wonder what exactly was Simmons's skill that allowed him to create such a quality website
I thought it was mostly having the power to get it funded and protect it from upper management in a world where online publishing is a guaranteed loss maker.
posted by MillMan at 12:06 PM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
I thought it was mostly having the power to get it funded and protect it from upper management in a world where online publishing is a guaranteed loss maker.
posted by MillMan at 12:06 PM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
I never got into Grantland the way some people seem to have. I appreciate the idea of sports longforms more than I actually enjoy them. At least for me, part of it is how they don't fit into the rigid structure of sports writing.
For instance, The NFL week has become a predictable thing. You have game predictions on Thursday before the first game, reaction to that game on Friday, previews for Sunday's games on Saturday, in-game and wrap-ups on Sunday, analysis on Monday, power rankings on Tuesday, and bupkis on Wednesday. Football-oriented sites like The MMQB manage to do in-depth pieces by working around this schedule. Grantland always seemed out of step with that journalism, and I wonder if that hurt it.
FiveThirtyEight I hope sticks around a while, I really enjoy it. Their statistic-oriented approach sometimes is governed by the maxim Garbage In / Garbage Out, but it provides a really fascinating angle on sports and politics. Their ongoing World Series coverage is terrific.
posted by graymouser at 12:07 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
For instance, The NFL week has become a predictable thing. You have game predictions on Thursday before the first game, reaction to that game on Friday, previews for Sunday's games on Saturday, in-game and wrap-ups on Sunday, analysis on Monday, power rankings on Tuesday, and bupkis on Wednesday. Football-oriented sites like The MMQB manage to do in-depth pieces by working around this schedule. Grantland always seemed out of step with that journalism, and I wonder if that hurt it.
FiveThirtyEight I hope sticks around a while, I really enjoy it. Their statistic-oriented approach sometimes is governed by the maxim Garbage In / Garbage Out, but it provides a really fascinating angle on sports and politics. Their ongoing World Series coverage is terrific.
posted by graymouser at 12:07 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I thought it was mostly having the power to get it funded and protect it from upper management in a world where online publishing is a guaranteed loss maker.
Well sure, but he also used that power to produce something other than commentary on Boston sports and yarns about the topless pool at the Bellagio.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:08 PM on October 30, 2015
Well sure, but he also used that power to produce something other than commentary on Boston sports and yarns about the topless pool at the Bellagio.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:08 PM on October 30, 2015
Huh. This is interesting - it does feel like Grantland without Bill Simmons was sort of an incubator space for writers he hadn't been able to hire away yet. I certainly wouldn't envy an incoming permanent editor on that title, although that of course is no longer a problem...
I guess, as someone who sort of likes sports but tends not to follow them closely enough to understand the minutiae, that the big Grantland thing for me was the Dr V incident, and Simmons' difficulty finding an appropriate register to respond to that.
Huh. And I was about to wax lyrical about Breaking Madden, but it turns out that was sbnation, so ignore me.
posted by running order squabble fest at 12:09 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I guess, as someone who sort of likes sports but tends not to follow them closely enough to understand the minutiae, that the big Grantland thing for me was the Dr V incident, and Simmons' difficulty finding an appropriate register to respond to that.
Huh. And I was about to wax lyrical about Breaking Madden, but it turns out that was sbnation, so ignore me.
posted by running order squabble fest at 12:09 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Different reaction on Metafilter today than when it launched.
It seems most likely to me that people who never really liked Grantland (like me) are not bothering to comment in this thread. Except I've gone ahead and ruined it.
I thought the way Simmons rationalized the outing of a trans woman both before and after her death were gross, and his exhortation to not blame all of Grantland for the failure of its editor to be rather shallow. Making it a personal failing means that he never has to examine if his concept of author-as-fan sportswriting has a dark side.
For other sports writing platforms, sbnation.com does more than host the best writer of all time Jon Bois.
posted by muddgirl at 12:13 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
It seems most likely to me that people who never really liked Grantland (like me) are not bothering to comment in this thread. Except I've gone ahead and ruined it.
I thought the way Simmons rationalized the outing of a trans woman both before and after her death were gross, and his exhortation to not blame all of Grantland for the failure of its editor to be rather shallow. Making it a personal failing means that he never has to examine if his concept of author-as-fan sportswriting has a dark side.
For other sports writing platforms, sbnation.com does more than host the best writer of all time Jon Bois.
posted by muddgirl at 12:13 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
If anyone in NYC wants to stop by Old Town Bar and buy some former employees a drink looks like they are. Funny thing, it's the same place my entire old company gathered when everyone got laid off in 2013. Apparently its the go-to "We just got fired" bar.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:21 PM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 12:21 PM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I don't like Simmons much on a personal level, but Grantland was always a few notches above other middlebrow venues of repute on the Internet. They did occasionally have some really top notch writing, and their baseline was always pretty good too. I'll miss it.
posted by codacorolla at 12:21 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by codacorolla at 12:21 PM on October 30, 2015
230 Metafilter posts mentioning Grantland.
Including not one, but two MetaTalk posts about how Grantland is being posted too much. I guess that's one specific dumb fight that won't be happening again.
posted by Copronymus at 12:27 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Including not one, but two MetaTalk posts about how Grantland is being posted too much. I guess that's one specific dumb fight that won't be happening again.
posted by Copronymus at 12:27 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I also was never really a big fan of Bill Simmons (the Boston homerism was obnoxious and tiresome, and the author photo at the end of his Grantland pieces looked unnervingly like my high school boyfriend) but the other writing on that site was so strong, I read it every single day. I especially like Sean McIndoe, Katie Baker, and Mark Harris. Harris' Oscar season prediction pieces, specifically, were must reads for me. I hope he continues to do them somewhere. His blend of insider-y expertise, film history knowledge, and pure affection for movies is really something.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 12:30 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by everybody had matching towels at 12:30 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Grantland is the only (mostly) sports site I have ever bookmarked. I am never surprised when one of their often excellent stories shows up on metafilter. I was surprised this week's Greg Hardy story did not. It is one of those pieces where the author waxes philosophically about what the popularity of our violent sports says about the corruption in our souls. NFL people hate that stuff and ESPN is for all practical purposes a member of the NFL entertainment cartel.
Bill Simmons taunting his management calling Goodell a liar and saying I don't care who gets pissed was almost as entertaining as anything that happened on the field that season. (Unless you are a Seahawks fan of course.)
posted by bukvich at 12:39 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Bill Simmons taunting his management calling Goodell a liar and saying I don't care who gets pissed was almost as entertaining as anything that happened on the field that season. (Unless you are a Seahawks fan of course.)
posted by bukvich at 12:39 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Rembert was leaving at the end of the month (so, today anyway). Apparently Andy Greenwald was also leaving next week.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:50 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:50 PM on October 30, 2015
I strongly dislike Bill Simmons (who, for all his support of Molly Lambert and other female writers, seems to have some issues with women), but I'm sorry that Molly and Rembert won't have this platform. I hope they show up somewhere soon.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:56 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by pxe2000 at 12:56 PM on October 30, 2015
Look, there's plenty of evidence that Bill Simmons is not perfect. There's also plenty of evidence that he parlayed what started as some guy's sports blog into a site (at ESPN/Disney for crying out loud) that went out of its way to give voice to women like Molly Lambert and Emily Yoshida and Katie Baker and Louisa Thomas, people of color like Rembert Browne and Wesley Morris and Jason Conception and Shea Serrano and Jay Caspian Kang, and even middle aged white dudes with whom he had strong differences of opinion like Charles P. Pierce. Often on pieces that have zero to do with sports or even pop culture but rather longform commentary on the world at large. For example: Rembert's trip with the President on the way to the 50th anniversary of Selma. That's a far cry from what could have been a vanity site filled with pieces from other middle aged white dudes from Boston (though to be fair, those guys get not insignificant airtime on Simmon's podcasts) .
For the haters - and this is a serious ask - please point me to where that Selma piece gets published today. Please point me to other white dudes anywhere in the mainstream media doing the same kind of hiring, giving the same kind of freedom. Because right now my feed has a giant smoking crater in it where Grantland used to be and while I'm definitely going to be pouring some out for the homies, I'm also curious as to whom you think traffic should be going while you're dancing on Grantland's grave. Not just longform text - the Girls in Hoodies podcast was amazing. The Do You Like Prince Movies podcast was amazing. Please point me to what you're reading/listening to that's better.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 1:23 PM on October 30, 2015 [34 favorites]
For the haters - and this is a serious ask - please point me to where that Selma piece gets published today. Please point me to other white dudes anywhere in the mainstream media doing the same kind of hiring, giving the same kind of freedom. Because right now my feed has a giant smoking crater in it where Grantland used to be and while I'm definitely going to be pouring some out for the homies, I'm also curious as to whom you think traffic should be going while you're dancing on Grantland's grave. Not just longform text - the Girls in Hoodies podcast was amazing. The Do You Like Prince Movies podcast was amazing. Please point me to what you're reading/listening to that's better.
posted by NoRelationToLea at 1:23 PM on October 30, 2015 [34 favorites]
I liked their sports writing, but their music columns were pretty awful.
Generally of the form "Band1, Band2, Band3 and the new face of the turning tide of the pop-culture social revolution." stuff that wasn't particularly based in reality. Mostly it seemed like interns writing essays on why their music was more important than other peoples.
Anyway, this seems like it was a long time coming, and it sucks, but boy it seems like people have been hating ESPN for a long time (like how LeBron's back to Cleveland essay was under wraps and dropped exclusively on SI.com).
Hoping everyone affected lands on their feet ok.
posted by lkc at 1:51 PM on October 30, 2015
Generally of the form "Band1, Band2, Band3 and the new face of the turning tide of the pop-culture social revolution." stuff that wasn't particularly based in reality. Mostly it seemed like interns writing essays on why their music was more important than other peoples.
Anyway, this seems like it was a long time coming, and it sucks, but boy it seems like people have been hating ESPN for a long time (like how LeBron's back to Cleveland essay was under wraps and dropped exclusively on SI.com).
Hoping everyone affected lands on their feet ok.
posted by lkc at 1:51 PM on October 30, 2015
I'll be missing my regular dose of David Shoemaker AKA The Masked Man. His coverage of wrestling and his analysis of it as a hybrid art form of sports competition and live theater has been a great extended read.
posted by Eikonaut at 1:54 PM on October 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by Eikonaut at 1:54 PM on October 30, 2015 [6 favorites]
He's come up a few times in the thread, but I wanted to make special mention of Wesley Morris, one of the best cultural critics working today. I think that his moving from the Boston Globe, where he'd just won a Pulitzer as a film critic, to Grantland was instrumental in allowing him to shift from reviewing films to writing more broadly about culture and society. For an example of his genius, check out this piece connecting Ferguson and "Let's Be Cops".
Of course, he already decamped for the New York Times; notably, he was hired as a cultural critic-at-large, allowing him to continue to write in the vein of his Grantland work - his first piece for the Times was the brilliant The Year We Obsessed Over Identity.
posted by Awkward Philip at 2:09 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Of course, he already decamped for the New York Times; notably, he was hired as a cultural critic-at-large, allowing him to continue to write in the vein of his Grantland work - his first piece for the Times was the brilliant The Year We Obsessed Over Identity.
posted by Awkward Philip at 2:09 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
"Wondering Sound, The Dissolve, now Grantland. Thoughtful, quality writing on the net appears to be unsustainable. How sad."
Using the plural you, since I wanna respond to this complaint but not dog on you specifically: How much did you pay to support them? Somebody's gotta pay, and advertising online is incredibly dubious. Distribution costs have fallen, but content creation costs haven't declined by much over the last decade, and have maybe even increased as digital video has (paradoxically) become more accessible. Doing professional work costs money, but monetizing thoughtful, quality writing is really difficult especially because most people savvy enough to be interested know how to do shit like ad block and route around paywalls. Having a third party subsidize the content (i.e. not the audience, but advertisers) is always going to be fraught, and the data mining of the internet makes that more true (as the low direct returns are much more apparent).
Honestly, it's a shame there's no way to create a substantial endowment and just run a c3 with a similar mission to Grantland, minus the ESPN shit.
" incredible mess that is Black Grantland"
The Uncompleted, aka Blankland?
posted by klangklangston at 2:21 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Using the plural you, since I wanna respond to this complaint but not dog on you specifically: How much did you pay to support them? Somebody's gotta pay, and advertising online is incredibly dubious. Distribution costs have fallen, but content creation costs haven't declined by much over the last decade, and have maybe even increased as digital video has (paradoxically) become more accessible. Doing professional work costs money, but monetizing thoughtful, quality writing is really difficult especially because most people savvy enough to be interested know how to do shit like ad block and route around paywalls. Having a third party subsidize the content (i.e. not the audience, but advertisers) is always going to be fraught, and the data mining of the internet makes that more true (as the low direct returns are much more apparent).
Honestly, it's a shame there's no way to create a substantial endowment and just run a c3 with a similar mission to Grantland, minus the ESPN shit.
" incredible mess that is Black Grantland"
The Uncompleted, aka Blankland?
posted by klangklangston at 2:21 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Well, Wesley Morris is already at NYT, and Sean McIndoe was still putting all his stuff on his old blog, so he should be alright until he gets picked up somewhere else. Those are the two that had me visiting daily. Although I know I'll miss Mark Harris's series when Oscar season rolls around.
posted by mannequito at 2:30 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by mannequito at 2:30 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Oh no - no more ask the maester? I'm going to be lost for next season's game of thrones.
posted by double bubble at 2:32 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by double bubble at 2:32 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
ESPN The Magazine is notoriously awful, and has been since its inception. ESPN somehow lucked into Bill Simmons (of all people) building them a much much much better version of it, a proper 2015-style magazine, blending sports and pop culture and providing great insight into the both, and ESPN said "no thanks this is trash."
posted by benbenson at 2:34 PM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by benbenson at 2:34 PM on October 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
I have a special place in my heart for legit, stand-up guys like Simmons who run up against some something-or-other Corporate Horseshit and decide to, even at the expense of their very own livelihood, at maybe the expense of being able to support their families - risk it all to say "No."
Not on his watch.
He wasn't going to let the charade continue. Granted, his wasn't the tallest moral hill to do final battle on, but it was a mound of utter shit, nonetheless. Anybody who's ever watched 10 minutes of ESPN could tell you with absolute certainty that they exist because of MAYBE a handful of professional sports leagues in the US and the NFL is the thumb, index finger, and palm of that plump, pink hand - with ESPN resting delicately in the center of it like a beautiful butterfly. Except the colors of the butterfly are a side-scroll of the upcoming stories and a top-ten countdown.
ESPN has depended on the NFL for its existence for most if not all of it's existence. This was clear long before examples like Simmon's departure. Citation: NFL pressures ESPN to shut down Playmakers - a show that happened to be about, oh, I dunno...rampant drug use by players, player association with or commission of violent criminal acts - often domestic abuse covered up by the team itself, questionable financial dealings by team ownership, collusion with and corruption by league governing authorities...
You know, just the things that we see pretty much every day unfolding in the news as the fucking reality of what the NFL is.
ESPN and the NFL have a twisted, co-dependent relationship where they both protect the shitty things that the other is doing in a desperate attempt to never be found wrong of anything and have their corporate entity threatened. A voice like Simmons' and his ilk was not long for the guillotine in those parts.
And of course they won't even own up to the real reason for letting him go, the fucking cowards - because doing so would at least in part prove Simmons right.
Fucking shame, but that's what you should expect when you try to go up against The Man. Sorry Bill - glad you landed on your feet at HBO. Let me know if you're hiring. I can normally write with less "fucks."
posted by allkindsoftime at 2:36 PM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Not on his watch.
He wasn't going to let the charade continue. Granted, his wasn't the tallest moral hill to do final battle on, but it was a mound of utter shit, nonetheless. Anybody who's ever watched 10 minutes of ESPN could tell you with absolute certainty that they exist because of MAYBE a handful of professional sports leagues in the US and the NFL is the thumb, index finger, and palm of that plump, pink hand - with ESPN resting delicately in the center of it like a beautiful butterfly. Except the colors of the butterfly are a side-scroll of the upcoming stories and a top-ten countdown.
ESPN has depended on the NFL for its existence for most if not all of it's existence. This was clear long before examples like Simmon's departure. Citation: NFL pressures ESPN to shut down Playmakers - a show that happened to be about, oh, I dunno...rampant drug use by players, player association with or commission of violent criminal acts - often domestic abuse covered up by the team itself, questionable financial dealings by team ownership, collusion with and corruption by league governing authorities...
You know, just the things that we see pretty much every day unfolding in the news as the fucking reality of what the NFL is.
ESPN and the NFL have a twisted, co-dependent relationship where they both protect the shitty things that the other is doing in a desperate attempt to never be found wrong of anything and have their corporate entity threatened. A voice like Simmons' and his ilk was not long for the guillotine in those parts.
And of course they won't even own up to the real reason for letting him go, the fucking cowards - because doing so would at least in part prove Simmons right.
Fucking shame, but that's what you should expect when you try to go up against The Man. Sorry Bill - glad you landed on your feet at HBO. Let me know if you're hiring. I can normally write with less "fucks."
posted by allkindsoftime at 2:36 PM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
longform.metafilter.com
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:55 PM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by robocop is bleeding at 2:55 PM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
From the comments in the Deadspin article linked above:
NBA season just started -- I need to figure out who Zach Lowe's writing for now, and I hope I'll figure out where to read profiles by Jonathan Abrams, too. (Kirk Goldsberry, meh. His graphics are beautiful, he offers thoughtful number crunching... but his 'NBA-as-bean-counting' vs. 'NBA-as-dramatic-human-competition' ratio is a bit off, for me.) In the meantime, reading up on the NBA for me will involve the more fanboy/vine-intensive coverage from the folks at sbnation. Tom Ziller's daily NBA newsletter has a solid roundup of links.
posted by Theophrastus Johnson at 2:59 PM on October 30, 2015
For when the One Sports Network comesHeh.
To write against your skills
It marks not that you won or lost
But if you paid the bills
NBA season just started -- I need to figure out who Zach Lowe's writing for now, and I hope I'll figure out where to read profiles by Jonathan Abrams, too. (Kirk Goldsberry, meh. His graphics are beautiful, he offers thoughtful number crunching... but his 'NBA-as-bean-counting' vs. 'NBA-as-dramatic-human-competition' ratio is a bit off, for me.) In the meantime, reading up on the NBA for me will involve the more fanboy/vine-intensive coverage from the folks at sbnation. Tom Ziller's daily NBA newsletter has a solid roundup of links.
posted by Theophrastus Johnson at 2:59 PM on October 30, 2015
I'll miss Grantland, and just about all of it. I'd guess that the parts I won't miss are the parts that I just never really had time to read. Characterizing it as a sports site is maybe 60% accurate, since I consider myself a sports fan but read plenty of non-sports writing there. I even read articles about things I don't really care about, but just enjoyed how they were presented.
I've actually missed Simmon's weekly NFL columns. I think he's a doofy Boston homer with ridiculous ideas, but I get that sense that he kind of feels the same way and mostly writes his columns in kind of a goofy mode, constantly coming up with new ideas about who's going to win games that have nothing to do with how good a team actually is, but are still somewhat insightful. So, it was good for Grantland that he went out and got Bill Barnwell, who is just about the polar opposite, and writes absolute data-wonkery, which seems to be the general house style to justify the longform articles. Barnwell's picks columns are ok, but feel too serious, while Simmons was just good for a laugh on Fridays.
I suspect that most of the people I read there will find work elsewhere - Keri on baseball, Phillips and Pierce on just about anything, Greenwald on TV...but I don't know where my favorite college basketball writer ever will end up. I don't know that Mark Titus' most powerful power rankings will ever really fit in anywhere else, but I'd rather read his stuff than the majority of the college basketball bloggers on ESPN's site.
posted by LionIndex at 4:20 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've actually missed Simmon's weekly NFL columns. I think he's a doofy Boston homer with ridiculous ideas, but I get that sense that he kind of feels the same way and mostly writes his columns in kind of a goofy mode, constantly coming up with new ideas about who's going to win games that have nothing to do with how good a team actually is, but are still somewhat insightful. So, it was good for Grantland that he went out and got Bill Barnwell, who is just about the polar opposite, and writes absolute data-wonkery, which seems to be the general house style to justify the longform articles. Barnwell's picks columns are ok, but feel too serious, while Simmons was just good for a laugh on Fridays.
I suspect that most of the people I read there will find work elsewhere - Keri on baseball, Phillips and Pierce on just about anything, Greenwald on TV...but I don't know where my favorite college basketball writer ever will end up. I don't know that Mark Titus' most powerful power rankings will ever really fit in anywhere else, but I'd rather read his stuff than the majority of the college basketball bloggers on ESPN's site.
posted by LionIndex at 4:20 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
My thoughts exactly, the NBA season just started, and I've been patiently waiting for all of the Zach Lowe goodness to burst forth. He's one of the best writers on the game, and I'd hate to see him end up like Henry Abbot (Truehoop used to be the best writing about basketball, now it just seems to be a series of annoying auto play videos).
posted by Ghidorah at 4:24 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Ghidorah at 4:24 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I wanted to call out how much I'll miss Andy Greenwald's television insights. I know he'll land somewhere else, but I think I'll feel a bit adrift until then. I've started watching many quality shows because of his analysis, including The Americans and You're the Worst.
On another note, I was appalled by the callous treatment of the remaining employees by ESPN. Yes, many of the big names had already lined up their next gig, but there were plenty of people still on staff that found out with the rest of the world. Michael Baumann, a freelancer who wrote for Grantland, tweeted "Well that's the first time I've ever found out I was laid off via Twitter." Everything else that's wrong with ESPN aside, that alone is enough for me to have no interest in patronizing them.
posted by bluloo at 4:41 PM on October 30, 2015
On another note, I was appalled by the callous treatment of the remaining employees by ESPN. Yes, many of the big names had already lined up their next gig, but there were plenty of people still on staff that found out with the rest of the world. Michael Baumann, a freelancer who wrote for Grantland, tweeted "Well that's the first time I've ever found out I was laid off via Twitter." Everything else that's wrong with ESPN aside, that alone is enough for me to have no interest in patronizing them.
posted by bluloo at 4:41 PM on October 30, 2015
Damn I was there, like, yesterday even though I wasn't a super regular reader except at the very beginning.
posted by atoxyl at 4:58 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by atoxyl at 4:58 PM on October 30, 2015
Oh no - no more ask the maester? I'm going to be lost for next season's game of thrones.
I don't know that the maester would be much good for the next season, since they'll be beyond the books in all but a couple storylines.
posted by LionIndex at 5:04 PM on October 30, 2015
I don't know that the maester would be much good for the next season, since they'll be beyond the books in all but a couple storylines.
posted by LionIndex at 5:04 PM on October 30, 2015
You all can miss grantland, but I sure as hell don't
Good point about the Dr. V. article, I forgot that was them. I didn't actually think Grantland was great overall but they had a handful of very good writers. And something just feels really weird to me about it being gone so suddenly though I can't quite put my finger on it.
posted by atoxyl at 5:05 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
Good point about the Dr. V. article, I forgot that was them. I didn't actually think Grantland was great overall but they had a handful of very good writers. And something just feels really weird to me about it being gone so suddenly though I can't quite put my finger on it.
posted by atoxyl at 5:05 PM on October 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'll be missing my regular dose of David Shoemaker AKA The Masked Man. His coverage of wrestling and his analysis of it as a hybrid art form of sports competition and live theater has been a great extended read.
His original "Dead Wrestler of the Week" series was on Deadspin. If they don't want him back I bet somewhere will.
posted by atoxyl at 5:08 PM on October 30, 2015
His original "Dead Wrestler of the Week" series was on Deadspin. If they don't want him back I bet somewhere will.
posted by atoxyl at 5:08 PM on October 30, 2015
Doing professional work costs money, but monetizing thoughtful, quality writing is really difficult especially because most people savvy enough to be interested know how to do shit like ad block and route around paywalls. Having a third party subsidize the content (i.e. not the audience, but advertisers) is always going to be fraught, and the data mining of the internet makes that more true (as the low direct returns are much more apparent).
As a web developer I should probably know this but - is anyone doing per-article payment processing yet? Should I be working on this?
posted by atoxyl at 5:17 PM on October 30, 2015
As a web developer I should probably know this but - is anyone doing per-article payment processing yet? Should I be working on this?
posted by atoxyl at 5:17 PM on October 30, 2015
Sean McIndoe (their resident hockey writer) on twitter:
@DownGoesBrown 4h ago I wrote roughly one million words at Grantland, and the last were a YouTube breakdown of a 1970's enforcer trying to sing. That feels right.
posted by mannequito at 5:24 PM on October 30, 2015
@DownGoesBrown 4h ago I wrote roughly one million words at Grantland, and the last were a YouTube breakdown of a 1970's enforcer trying to sing. That feels right.
posted by mannequito at 5:24 PM on October 30, 2015
Aw man, no more Dave Schilling Empire recaps.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:43 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:43 PM on October 30, 2015
I'll be missing my regular dose of David Shoemaker AKA The Masked Man. His coverage of wrestling and his analysis of it as a hybrid art form of sports competition and live theater has been a great extended read.
His original "Dead Wrestler of the Week" series was on Deadspin. If they don't want him back I bet somewhere will.
Simmons is a huuuge fan of wrestling. If Shoemaker doesn't show up at HBO, it'll be by his own choice.
posted by Etrigan at 6:12 PM on October 30, 2015
His original "Dead Wrestler of the Week" series was on Deadspin. If they don't want him back I bet somewhere will.
Simmons is a huuuge fan of wrestling. If Shoemaker doesn't show up at HBO, it'll be by his own choice.
posted by Etrigan at 6:12 PM on October 30, 2015
i just listened to the NFL podcast today --- which was recently the subject of its own mini-drama --- and it's clear Barnwell and Mays had no idea this was going down. So sad. That and the Game of Thrones podcast, i had that good-radio relationship with, where i felt like I was hanging with friends and listening to them shoot the shit about a subject I found interesting. I shall miss them, and the many great features they did over the years.
As for Grantland's demise as portent, on the one hand it does seem like the product of personal executive level drama --- clearly at least some of the brass at ESPN thought of it as a sop to placate Simmons, and once they decided they were no longer interested in doing that its days were numbered.
But on the other hand, it also seems like yet another exhibit in the Trial of Quality on the Internet, and it is becoming clear that the verdict is Only Garbage Pays. If ESPN, which makes and spends billions on its TV programming, isn't willing to toss a couple million a year at a handful of good writers just for a bit of reputation-burnishing, who possibly would be? If the only thing capable of supporting quality is triggering the right combo of guilt, pity and sanctimony among your audience I fear we won't see very much of it. God save us from a world where it's NPR Pledge week all-day everyday, everywhere.
posted by Diablevert at 6:22 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
As for Grantland's demise as portent, on the one hand it does seem like the product of personal executive level drama --- clearly at least some of the brass at ESPN thought of it as a sop to placate Simmons, and once they decided they were no longer interested in doing that its days were numbered.
But on the other hand, it also seems like yet another exhibit in the Trial of Quality on the Internet, and it is becoming clear that the verdict is Only Garbage Pays. If ESPN, which makes and spends billions on its TV programming, isn't willing to toss a couple million a year at a handful of good writers just for a bit of reputation-burnishing, who possibly would be? If the only thing capable of supporting quality is triggering the right combo of guilt, pity and sanctimony among your audience I fear we won't see very much of it. God save us from a world where it's NPR Pledge week all-day everyday, everywhere.
posted by Diablevert at 6:22 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
"As a web developer I should probably know this but - is anyone doing per-article payment processing yet? Should I be working on this?"
How do you mean? Micropayments? The post-Gawker model where authors get paid per pageview?
posted by klangklangston at 6:25 PM on October 30, 2015
How do you mean? Micropayments? The post-Gawker model where authors get paid per pageview?
posted by klangklangston at 6:25 PM on October 30, 2015
I'm so sad to hear this. I learned about the site via a link from the Blue and it had become my go-to source when I wanted to read good articles about aspects of contemporary American sports or TV that I was unfamiliar with. So many talented writers. I'd become a fan of Andy Greenwald's writing after reading his take on Sherlock. So sad.
posted by misozaki at 6:36 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by misozaki at 6:36 PM on October 30, 2015
.
posted by Jeff Morris at 6:41 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Jeff Morris at 6:41 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Grantland being trashed is a shame, as the mothership website is damned waste of bandwidth.
ESPN is in major cost-cutting mode thanks to paying ridiculously high rights fees. No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people, so Disney is happy to let ESPN, led by headache inducing Screamin' A Smith, shameless Skip Bayless, idiotic Chris Berman, the insipid Mike and Mike, and their ilk, pander to the lowest common denominator. There's no room for intelligent, long form writing in that kind of environment.
posted by bawanaal at 7:02 PM on October 30, 2015
ESPN is in major cost-cutting mode thanks to paying ridiculously high rights fees. No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people, so Disney is happy to let ESPN, led by headache inducing Screamin' A Smith, shameless Skip Bayless, idiotic Chris Berman, the insipid Mike and Mike, and their ilk, pander to the lowest common denominator. There's no room for intelligent, long form writing in that kind of environment.
posted by bawanaal at 7:02 PM on October 30, 2015
How do you mean? Micropayments?
A one-time micropayment for "permanent" access to each (ad-free) article would be my preferred model as a user. Obviously it would be the least hassle if you just had to set up an account with a third-party payment processor/platform provider. My question is does that third party exist? Does nobody else think this is worth gambling on? I could probably code the fucking thing.
posted by atoxyl at 7:18 PM on October 30, 2015
A one-time micropayment for "permanent" access to each (ad-free) article would be my preferred model as a user. Obviously it would be the least hassle if you just had to set up an account with a third-party payment processor/platform provider. My question is does that third party exist? Does nobody else think this is worth gambling on? I could probably code the fucking thing.
posted by atoxyl at 7:18 PM on October 30, 2015
A one-time micropayment for "permanent" access to each (ad-free) article would be my preferred model as a user. Obviously it would be the least hassle if you just had to set up an account with a third-party payment processor/platform provider. My question is does that third party exist? Does nobody else think this is worth gambling on? I could probably code the fucking thing.
I think Clay Shirky got this right 15 years ago, still. Unfortunately, perhaps. It's the inherent friction of it. You either set up an invisible toll --- in which I'm being tracked everywhere and charged for everything, hard to imagine lots of people volunteering for that --- or you set up a pay wall, a point before consumption where I must choose whether or not to consume. Any kind of barrier, you're going to see huge drop off in hits and visitors, which will cripple your ability to get ads. Just look at the data on abandoned shopping carts --- people who go to a site, see something they like, make the decision to purchase, usually for a not-at-all-micro-payment --- and you still lose 50% of 'em if the cart page doesn't load quick enough.
I've gotta assume that the bounce rate on blog posts of dubious entertainment value is going to be even higher than they one on tangible goods I've already decided I covet. And while all retail competitors in a sector have to ship actual products --- thus my gratification is delayed no matter who I buy from --- with content as soon as someone else in that space of roughly comparable quality goes fully ad-supported, it's game over. They get the traffic.
If there is no barrier to the content, why pay? Or at least, the micropayment system then just becomes Tip Jar 2.0, a space Patreon seems to have covered pretty well.
posted by Diablevert at 8:09 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think Clay Shirky got this right 15 years ago, still. Unfortunately, perhaps. It's the inherent friction of it. You either set up an invisible toll --- in which I'm being tracked everywhere and charged for everything, hard to imagine lots of people volunteering for that --- or you set up a pay wall, a point before consumption where I must choose whether or not to consume. Any kind of barrier, you're going to see huge drop off in hits and visitors, which will cripple your ability to get ads. Just look at the data on abandoned shopping carts --- people who go to a site, see something they like, make the decision to purchase, usually for a not-at-all-micro-payment --- and you still lose 50% of 'em if the cart page doesn't load quick enough.
I've gotta assume that the bounce rate on blog posts of dubious entertainment value is going to be even higher than they one on tangible goods I've already decided I covet. And while all retail competitors in a sector have to ship actual products --- thus my gratification is delayed no matter who I buy from --- with content as soon as someone else in that space of roughly comparable quality goes fully ad-supported, it's game over. They get the traffic.
If there is no barrier to the content, why pay? Or at least, the micropayment system then just becomes Tip Jar 2.0, a space Patreon seems to have covered pretty well.
posted by Diablevert at 8:09 PM on October 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
it's clear Barnwell and Mays had no idea this was going down.
ESPN announced a pretty fat round of layoffs earlier in the week so if they really had no idea this was going down that is not a credit to them.
posted by bukvich at 8:26 PM on October 30, 2015
ESPN announced a pretty fat round of layoffs earlier in the week so if they really had no idea this was going down that is not a credit to them.
posted by bukvich at 8:26 PM on October 30, 2015
ESPN announced a pretty fat round of layoffs earlier in the week so if they really had no idea this was going down that is not a credit to them.
To be clear, I don't know them, and have no Nixonian what did they know and when did they know it insight into their situation. But there was some weirdness with the podcast recently --- allegedly, when several staff members jumped ship to Simmon's new gig earlier this month, Barnwell and Mays included a few kinds words about how much they'd miss them at the end of an episode. The interim editor in chief had their farewell to their colleagues cut from the podcast. The podcast then went missing for two weeks, with no public comment as to why or when it'd be back from either the hosts or ESPN. Both continued to write as normal for Grantland.
This Monday it was back, still without any comment from the hosts or ESPN as to what was up with the hiatus. But the Monday episode did open with Barnwell saying "So, as I was saying..." and then giving about 30 seconds of appreciation for the departed editors. The rest of the episode proceeded as normal. Wednesday episode they usually have a guest --- this week it was Rembert, who had already announced he was leaving, and they talked about his time at Grantland, and football, etc. Today's podcast was as usual, including the same pre-recorded cold open and their habitual closing speil about what their podcast schedule would be for the followng week and other reminders about upcoming content.
It seems clear that everyone and their mother was well aware that something was rotten in the state of Denmark. But the ultimate decision to axe the site seems to have been abrupt to say the least. I mean, if they knew they were going to have the hammer drop even a week ago, why allow the podcast to resume? Whether the hosts were balking in protest or ESPN was disciplining them, to have two weeks of weirdness and radio silence and a week of pretend normalcy doesn't make sense unless the presumption was that they were at least going to finish out the season.
posted by Diablevert at 8:53 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
To be clear, I don't know them, and have no Nixonian what did they know and when did they know it insight into their situation. But there was some weirdness with the podcast recently --- allegedly, when several staff members jumped ship to Simmon's new gig earlier this month, Barnwell and Mays included a few kinds words about how much they'd miss them at the end of an episode. The interim editor in chief had their farewell to their colleagues cut from the podcast. The podcast then went missing for two weeks, with no public comment as to why or when it'd be back from either the hosts or ESPN. Both continued to write as normal for Grantland.
This Monday it was back, still without any comment from the hosts or ESPN as to what was up with the hiatus. But the Monday episode did open with Barnwell saying "So, as I was saying..." and then giving about 30 seconds of appreciation for the departed editors. The rest of the episode proceeded as normal. Wednesday episode they usually have a guest --- this week it was Rembert, who had already announced he was leaving, and they talked about his time at Grantland, and football, etc. Today's podcast was as usual, including the same pre-recorded cold open and their habitual closing speil about what their podcast schedule would be for the followng week and other reminders about upcoming content.
It seems clear that everyone and their mother was well aware that something was rotten in the state of Denmark. But the ultimate decision to axe the site seems to have been abrupt to say the least. I mean, if they knew they were going to have the hammer drop even a week ago, why allow the podcast to resume? Whether the hosts were balking in protest or ESPN was disciplining them, to have two weeks of weirdness and radio silence and a week of pretend normalcy doesn't make sense unless the presumption was that they were at least going to finish out the season.
posted by Diablevert at 8:53 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
There are two websites that I will involuntarily type into a browser tab when I am "trying to get work done, no seriously." Metafilter is one, Grantland is the other. I initially came for the sports, but I'll be damned if the cultural stuff didn't become the best part of it. Everything Brian Phillips wrote was brilliant, even the dumb stuff was brilliant. He also did the impossible and made me care about Premier League soccer, same thing for Louisa Thomas and tennis. Wesley Morris and Andy Greenwald are the two best cultural critics for their respective mediums. Molly Lambert's Mad Men recaps were often better than the show itself. Charlie Pierce's columns just make me think of my dad waxing political after a few rounds of bourbon, in the best way possible. Whenever Rembert decides to come back to Atlanta and run for mayor, I will be more than willing to offer my services as campaign manager. The signal to noise ratio on Grantland was higher than just about anything else out there, doubly so for anything in the realm of sports. It will be missed.
posted by dudemanlives at 9:06 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by dudemanlives at 9:06 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks the daytime ESPN talent is pretty poor. It's like everyone is trying to do a sports version of AM political talk radio.
posted by persona au gratin at 9:17 PM on October 30, 2015
posted by persona au gratin at 9:17 PM on October 30, 2015
I think Clay Shirky got this right 15 years ago, still. Unfortunately, perhaps. It's the inherent friction of it. You either set up an invisible toll --- in which I'm being tracked everywhere and charged for everything, hard to imagine lots of people volunteering for that --- or you set up a pay wall, a point before consumption where I must choose whether or not to consume.
The best point that he makes that I am underrating the importance of in my proposal is the unpredictability of price. If I could be assured things would cost [something that seems reasonable to me] universally I would absolutely turn of the paywall prompt. But without that guarantee you of course want to have it on and then you get the deterrent effect. Having to authorize once per site (or change in rate) wouldn't be that bad though - or ideally multiple content providers could be persuaded to agree on a common pricing scheme. The other possibility that is opened up that I think most people would hate if it's not kept under control is price discrimination based on type/length/author of content. Again you somehow have to convince publishers that it's better not to go fucking nuts with that - which seems kind of impossible.
But personally I am far more averse to subscriptions than tolls. Being able to just follow a link and read what's on the other side seems pretty fundamental to the web experience - it's called a browser for a reason - and who wants to pay (repeatedly) for a bunch of bundled stuff they don't want?
posted by atoxyl at 9:22 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
The best point that he makes that I am underrating the importance of in my proposal is the unpredictability of price. If I could be assured things would cost [something that seems reasonable to me] universally I would absolutely turn of the paywall prompt. But without that guarantee you of course want to have it on and then you get the deterrent effect. Having to authorize once per site (or change in rate) wouldn't be that bad though - or ideally multiple content providers could be persuaded to agree on a common pricing scheme. The other possibility that is opened up that I think most people would hate if it's not kept under control is price discrimination based on type/length/author of content. Again you somehow have to convince publishers that it's better not to go fucking nuts with that - which seems kind of impossible.
But personally I am far more averse to subscriptions than tolls. Being able to just follow a link and read what's on the other side seems pretty fundamental to the web experience - it's called a browser for a reason - and who wants to pay (repeatedly) for a bunch of bundled stuff they don't want?
posted by atoxyl at 9:22 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm kind of glad they just axed it instead of attempting to "repurpose the asset so that it more fully aligns with existing digital-content best practices and network-wide editorial guidelines" (or whatever they might actually say).
Grantland was the best general-interest, North-American-sports-journalism website. It did so many things right, big things and little things, in a sports and sports-media environment that treats fans like the moneymaking dogshit they are because non-fans are the key to fat ad buys and bidding wars over merchandising rights. Grantland was dogshit through and through.
posted by clorox at 11:18 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Grantland was the best general-interest, North-American-sports-journalism website. It did so many things right, big things and little things, in a sports and sports-media environment that treats fans like the moneymaking dogshit they are because non-fans are the key to fat ad buys and bidding wars over merchandising rights. Grantland was dogshit through and through.
posted by clorox at 11:18 PM on October 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
Blendle uses micropayments and seems to be getting some traction.
posted by doiheartwentyone at 1:06 AM on October 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by doiheartwentyone at 1:06 AM on October 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
Does anyone have any links to alternative sites to Grantland? Any place that has similar vibe? Please share. Grantland will be missed.
posted by Fizz at 7:17 AM on October 31, 2015
posted by Fizz at 7:17 AM on October 31, 2015
Simmons' created two incredible things for ESPN, besides Grantland, there's also the "30 for 30" series. The series is inconsistent but its best documentaries are amazing. It seems like ESPN is making a huge mistake by letting him go.
posted by drezdn at 9:07 AM on October 31, 2015
posted by drezdn at 9:07 AM on October 31, 2015
ESPN Just Killed Grantland — Here Are Some Of Our Favorite Stories
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:16 AM on October 31, 2015
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:16 AM on October 31, 2015
Katherine Cross on Twitter:
It's been interesting watching the split reaction to the Grantland closure: trans women on the one hand, and everybody else.posted by running order squabble fest at 10:50 AM on October 31, 2015 [2 favorites]
What of the trans men?
posted by Going To Maine at 11:21 AM on October 31, 2015
posted by Going To Maine at 11:21 AM on October 31, 2015
I wonder what's going to happen to Charles Pierce. I know he's still got his column at Esquire but I'm really going to miss his sports pieces.
I hope that when HBO promises multiplatform they mean it and we'll see stuff like Ask the Maester and so on online. I could care less if some of the pop culture pieces carry water for HBO as long as we got those writers back to doing what they do best.
I just had another thought and it's a pipe dream but... There's another ESPN alum that's homeless right now. Picture this, next year as the election heats up Simmons show has Keith Olbermann dissecting things with Pierce. Oh.god.damn. That would be worth a HBO subscription right there. Maybe John Oliver could poke his head in the door now and then... I know, it's a dream but damn, that would be some great television.
posted by Ber at 1:14 PM on October 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I hope that when HBO promises multiplatform they mean it and we'll see stuff like Ask the Maester and so on online. I could care less if some of the pop culture pieces carry water for HBO as long as we got those writers back to doing what they do best.
I just had another thought and it's a pipe dream but... There's another ESPN alum that's homeless right now. Picture this, next year as the election heats up Simmons show has Keith Olbermann dissecting things with Pierce. Oh.god.damn. That would be worth a HBO subscription right there. Maybe John Oliver could poke his head in the door now and then... I know, it's a dream but damn, that would be some great television.
posted by Ber at 1:14 PM on October 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
What of the trans men?
Well, I can't speak to Katherine Cross' experience, but in this case I think the outlier reaction from trans women in particular is born from the publication of "Dr V's Magical Putter".
(The sortapology Simmons subsequently published is itself a fascinating document, and SXSW more recently could probably have learned something from it - in particular, if you've screwed up, try to minimize how long you spend in your apology talking about how amazing you are, and how mean people have been to you.)
So, Cross is probably speaking both as a trans woman and from her conversations with trans women, who find themselves being presented as carnivalesque entertainments for cisgender male curiosity on a pretty regular basis.
Simmons' apology gets very upset about the implication that Grantland would ever have outed her, which is a bit odd given that the writer of the article already had, and that Grantland subsequently did post mortem. The much, much more effective and clear-eyed examination of the issues by ESPN baseball reporter Christina Kahrl is very strong on this:
(That said, it's obviously still a generalization - and there are no doubt people outside the set of trans women - myself included - who lamented the closing of a site that supported high-quality writing, hoped that the staff found new work quickly and also recalled that the way they felt about Grantland was fundamentally affected by events around that one story.)
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:23 PM on October 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Well, I can't speak to Katherine Cross' experience, but in this case I think the outlier reaction from trans women in particular is born from the publication of "Dr V's Magical Putter".
(The sortapology Simmons subsequently published is itself a fascinating document, and SXSW more recently could probably have learned something from it - in particular, if you've screwed up, try to minimize how long you spend in your apology talking about how amazing you are, and how mean people have been to you.)
So, Cross is probably speaking both as a trans woman and from her conversations with trans women, who find themselves being presented as carnivalesque entertainments for cisgender male curiosity on a pretty regular basis.
Simmons' apology gets very upset about the implication that Grantland would ever have outed her, which is a bit odd given that the writer of the article already had, and that Grantland subsequently did post mortem. The much, much more effective and clear-eyed examination of the issues by ESPN baseball reporter Christina Kahrl is very strong on this:
It was not Grantland’s job to out Essay Anne Vanderbilt, but it was done, carelessly. Not simply with the story’s posthumous publication; that kind of casual cruelty is weekly fare visited upon transgender murder victims in newspapers across the country. No, what Hannan apparently did was worse: Upon making the unavoidable discovery that Vanderbilt’s background didn’t stand up to scrutiny, he didn’t reassure her that her gender identity wasn’t germane to the broader problems he’d uncovered with her story. Rather, he provided this tidbit to one of the investors in her company in a gratuitous “gotcha” moment that reflects how little thought he’d given the matter. Maybe it was relevant for him to inform the investor that she wasn’t a physicist and probably didn’t work on the stealth bomber and probably also wasn’t a Vanderbilt cut from the same cloth as the original Commodore. But revealing her gender identity was ultimately as dangerous as it was thoughtless.So, I think the trans women Cross is hearing from have a particular perspective on Grantland - that it demonstrated that this new wave of intelligent, longform sports writing was still going to treat their lives and their deaths as points of narrative interest, and that this would have no negative consequences whatsoever. I'd imagine that if a trans man had been the target, that outlier response would have skewed more towards trans men.
(That said, it's obviously still a generalization - and there are no doubt people outside the set of trans women - myself included - who lamented the closing of a site that supported high-quality writing, hoped that the staff found new work quickly and also recalled that the way they felt about Grantland was fundamentally affected by events around that one story.)
posted by running order squabble fest at 3:23 PM on October 31, 2015 [4 favorites]
Has anyone answered the Grantland-readalike question?
From sites I read regularly, I think that looking at the stuff posted on longform and this, augmenting with AV Club and the start-at-Deadspin Gawkerverse, is about as close as I can come off the top of my head, and it's not that close.
Better, I think, to wait and see where Rembert and Shea and Katie and Charlie and Shoemaker and Hyden (or, y'know, your own faves) end up.
posted by box at 3:40 PM on October 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
From sites I read regularly, I think that looking at the stuff posted on longform and this, augmenting with AV Club and the start-at-Deadspin Gawkerverse, is about as close as I can come off the top of my head, and it's not that close.
Better, I think, to wait and see where Rembert and Shea and Katie and Charlie and Shoemaker and Hyden (or, y'know, your own faves) end up.
posted by box at 3:40 PM on October 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yeah, someone needs to hire Shea Serrano immediately. I frequently went to Grantland just to see if he had anything new there, what a delightful writer and dude he is.
Nthing the requests for similar destination sites, though given that there was a lot of quality in many areas there (definitely not just limited to the kickass sports focused stuff), that might be difficult.
posted by pseudonymph at 7:20 PM on October 31, 2015
Nthing the requests for similar destination sites, though given that there was a lot of quality in many areas there (definitely not just limited to the kickass sports focused stuff), that might be difficult.
posted by pseudonymph at 7:20 PM on October 31, 2015
There are pop culture Grantland replacements, for TV like HitFix or Vulture, for Music like Pitchfork's new longform articles, and there are sports replacements like the Classical or SI's the Cauldron, but there is no one place like Grantland.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:35 AM on November 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:35 AM on November 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
Oh and Vice's Sports and culture reporting is a far cry from the cocaine douchery that used to be it's raison d'etre. For instance, the delightful David Roth.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:37 AM on November 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:37 AM on November 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just hope Ask the Maester finds a new home.
posted by homunculus at 10:29 AM on November 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 10:29 AM on November 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I never really read Grantland the site, but I loved their pop culture podcasts (and that's actually what made me remember that this post was here and I hadn't read it yet - after I looked at my podcasts today and saw for the third week that there was no new Food News. I didn't realize until now that Juliet Litman was one of the ones that left). Anyway, Juliet & Jacoby were so good together that I would listen to their Reality TV podcast even though I didn't watch any of the shows. And I've only just recently discovered the Andy Greenwald podcast. So this makes me sad.
I've listened to other pop culture podcasts and while I've found some that are decent, none of them have even come close to the ones on Grantland Pop Culture, with the exception of Pop Culture Happy Hour. I hope that Bill Simmons gets something comparable up and running (and it looks like David Jacoby might be going over too, which makes me happy.)
posted by triggerfinger at 8:20 PM on November 2, 2015
I've listened to other pop culture podcasts and while I've found some that are decent, none of them have even come close to the ones on Grantland Pop Culture, with the exception of Pop Culture Happy Hour. I hope that Bill Simmons gets something comparable up and running (and it looks like David Jacoby might be going over too, which makes me happy.)
posted by triggerfinger at 8:20 PM on November 2, 2015
Still, the fact remains that Vox is by all accounts thriving while Grantland, which eschewed filler, is dead. Moreover, the only destination sites that really seem to be working either have massive brand equity that is being leveraged into subscriptions (The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Financial Times), or are tiny one-person operations that leverage the Internet to keep costs sustainably low while monetizing through small-scale native advertising (e.g. Daring Fireball and the now-retired Dooce.com, for example) or subscriptions (e.g. The Timmerman Report and the site you’re reading). It certainly seems that the lesson of Grantland is that there is no room in the middle: not enough scale for advertising, and costs that are far too high for a viable subscription business.posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:07 AM on November 8, 2015 [2 favorites]
Disney CEO Robert Iger joins Chargers, Raiders L.A. stadium project
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:17 PM on November 11, 2015
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:17 PM on November 11, 2015
FYI for those missing the HP podcasts, Simmons had Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald on his show this week. Ryan's there permanently while I believe Greenwald has a book contract so I dunno if it'll be a weekly thing, but definitely seems like he's looking to have them back again in future.
posted by Diablevert at 5:06 AM on November 12, 2015
posted by Diablevert at 5:06 AM on November 12, 2015
Oh, hey --- just finished listening to the actual episode w. Ryan and Greenwald and they're definitely doing a new pop culture podcast together for Simmon's HBO thing! It will be twice a week, didn't give a start date but it seems like soon.
posted by Diablevert at 7:13 PM on November 15, 2015
posted by Diablevert at 7:13 PM on November 15, 2015
Zach Lowe is writing for espn.com and is still doing "The Lowe Post" podcast (searchable on itunes etc).
posted by MillMan at 11:06 PM on November 19, 2015
posted by MillMan at 11:06 PM on November 19, 2015
« Older the Grindr Rebbe is ushering in a new age of... | Twitch Installs Arch Linux Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Several of the writers departed a few weeks ago, many of them allegedly to join Simmons at HBO, where he landed a "multiyear, multiplatform pact" in July.
posted by Etrigan at 11:25 AM on October 30, 2015 [5 favorites]