One wore a shirt that extolled the virtues of waterboarding.
January 15, 2016 3:16 PM Subscribe
It was, in some sense, intended to be a memorial. People filtered into the stadium under giant waving flags on the stadium’s external jumbotrons. But once inside, they were greeted with the giant floating head of John Krasinski, better known as Jim from The Office, who plays the movie’s protagonist, a security contractor named Jack Da Silva.I Watched Michael Bay's Benghazi Movie at Cowboys Stadium With 30,000 Pissed-Off Patriots
When [Krasinski] was interviewed on the stadium’s immense on-field red carpet, as part of the pre-show, he spoke about working with the real-life Da Silva to develop his character. A man in front of me groaned. “Oh, so now we know that character doesn’t die,” he said. “Great spoiler, dude.” Yes: Jim from The Office spoiled Benghazi.
David Greene spoke to Justin Chang in Morning Edition this morning about this movie.
GREENE: Sounds like you're saying I should go see it.posted by hippybear at 3:23 PM on January 15, 2016
CHANG: (Laughter) I - you know, as a self-respecting film critic, I always check myself before I make the mistake of recommending a Michael Bay movie.
GREENE: (Laughter).
CHANG: But I think that this is definitely the most serious-minded and responsible thing he's done in a very long time, and I came away with kind of grudging admiration for it, I have to say.
hahaha, more:
CHANG: The other ones, I think that with Michael Bay, he's almost stumbled on an ideal choice of subject matter here because he has this sort of genius for incoherence. The way he directs action, he very much is kind of not giving you a very clear picture of what's happening.posted by indubitable at 3:31 PM on January 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
I remember in the 1980s when Hollywood went back and won the Vietnam War for America. Bay's a little early out of the starting blocks but right on target.
posted by benito.strauss at 3:36 PM on January 15, 2016 [85 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 3:36 PM on January 15, 2016 [85 favorites]
So... is Bay a republican, or hard-pressed for work, or just completely mercenary? (Or some combination?)
The motivation to spend your days making this movie (the way it was described) is a confusing choice to me without some other factor like that in play.
Or (tinfoil hat) was the original studio plan to go full-bore political-conspiracy-nutter, and by taking the job he was able to pull it back a bit from that and more towards explosions, and thus Benghazi (the movie) is AN INSIDE JOB!?!
posted by anonymisc at 3:37 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
The motivation to spend your days making this movie (the way it was described) is a confusing choice to me without some other factor like that in play.
Or (tinfoil hat) was the original studio plan to go full-bore political-conspiracy-nutter, and by taking the job he was able to pull it back a bit from that and more towards explosions, and thus Benghazi (the movie) is AN INSIDE JOB!?!
posted by anonymisc at 3:37 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Starting a bit early with the Swift Boating, aren't they.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by a lungful of dragon at 3:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I doubt it will make any difference politically. People who are going to think Benghazi is an evil cover-up by Clinton and Co. already do, and people who aren't won't be swayed by this.
posted by Sangermaine at 3:44 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Sangermaine at 3:44 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I saw the preview for this as an online ad somewhere and it took me a long time to realize it wasn't some sort of Onion joke. A Michael Bay Benghazi movie, that has to be an SNL skit right?
And I used to like Jon Krasinski. But I'll never pay money for another project he's involved with. Which, if he's stooped to doing Micheal Bay movies, probably won't be all that many more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:49 PM on January 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
And I used to like Jon Krasinski. But I'll never pay money for another project he's involved with. Which, if he's stooped to doing Micheal Bay movies, probably won't be all that many more.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:49 PM on January 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
It'll have as much effect as shouting the word BENGHAZI repeatedly against a backdrop of explosions, eagles, evil terrorists and American flags waving gently in the wind.
I don't know, with some people that is enough.
posted by Artw at 3:50 PM on January 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
I don't know, with some people that is enough.
posted by Artw at 3:50 PM on January 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
It'll have as much effect as shouting the word BRNGHAZI repeatedly against a backdrop of explosions, eagles, evil terrorists and American flags waving gently in the wind.
So it's a full length in-kind ad for Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:53 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
So it's a full length in-kind ad for Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:53 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, if I was Clinton I can't imagine this concerning me. The only people who think Benghazi is relevant to the election are the true-believer Clinton haters. I've never even met a Republican or Libertarian who cares about it (obviously they exist, but I'm pretty sure its a minority even inside those groups). Its tinfoil hat stuff like 9/11 truthers.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:53 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by thefoxgod at 3:53 PM on January 15, 2016
Others were less sanguine. “Oh yeah. I’d shoot Hillary Clinton in the fuckin’ head. I don’t like the bitch at all,” said Len Toomey, who identified himself as a veteran of Desert Storm and Somalia. He’d seen the movie with some VFW friends. “Choke her. She should be in the pisser and I should be pissin’ on her every night.”
Uhhh, Secret Service?
posted by Drinky Die at 3:55 PM on January 15, 2016 [66 favorites]
Uhhh, Secret Service?
posted by Drinky Die at 3:55 PM on January 15, 2016 [66 favorites]
Especially after the failure of the House to make a dent in Hillary with the hearings, you saw more of the mainstream Republicans distance themselves from the whe thing. I'm sure Trump supporters love it, but theyre not going to vote for Hillary under any circumstances.
posted by thefoxgod at 3:56 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 3:56 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Chris Cornell? Really?
Things took a turn for the worse. Chris Cornell of Soundgarden rose to sing a song. Things again took a turn for the worse: He sang another. This one, he said, was “inspired by the people who fell and who stood their ground” in Benghazi. As Cornell sung his Benghazi song, footage from the movie played—jets, wrecked military equipment, handsome men in a foreign land. A Benghazi music video.
posted by NoMich at 3:56 PM on January 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Things took a turn for the worse. Chris Cornell of Soundgarden rose to sing a song. Things again took a turn for the worse: He sang another. This one, he said, was “inspired by the people who fell and who stood their ground” in Benghazi. As Cornell sung his Benghazi song, footage from the movie played—jets, wrecked military equipment, handsome men in a foreign land. A Benghazi music video.
posted by NoMich at 3:56 PM on January 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
What a pack of assholes.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:57 PM on January 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:57 PM on January 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
This is every bit the right-wing jerkoff fantasy about fabricated, nonexistent moral rectitude as Zach Snyder's 300, and every bit as contemptible.
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:58 PM on January 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 3:58 PM on January 15, 2016 [14 favorites]
Chris Cornell? Really?
The Audioslave reunion is going to be Awkward
posted by drezdn at 3:59 PM on January 15, 2016 [55 favorites]
Also, the Cowboys suck. I'm glad the Eagles are associated with this movie instead.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:01 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 4:01 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Chris Cornell? Really?
If they can get Janis Joplin's reanimated corpse to sell Mercedes, they can get former grunge musicians to sell whatever SKU this falls under.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:01 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
If they can get Janis Joplin's reanimated corpse to sell Mercedes, they can get former grunge musicians to sell whatever SKU this falls under.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:01 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
May this film be as successful as the Dallas Cowboys were this season.
posted by drezdn at 4:04 PM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by drezdn at 4:04 PM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
At least he gave us Pain & Gain.
posted by shakespeherian at 4:06 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 4:06 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I doubt it will make any difference politically. People who are going to think Benghazi is an evil cover-up by Clinton and Co. already do, and people who aren't won't be swayed by this.
Well, I think a lot of the issue is that there's a third option - staying home and not voting for anyone. There's a fine line to be walked by Republicans as far as picking a candidate that has decent mass appeal while not alienating the Tea Party 'Hillary is a terrorist' types. Get them angry enough and they might show up regardless of whether it's Trump or Rubio at the helm.
posted by jimmythefish at 4:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Well, I think a lot of the issue is that there's a third option - staying home and not voting for anyone. There's a fine line to be walked by Republicans as far as picking a candidate that has decent mass appeal while not alienating the Tea Party 'Hillary is a terrorist' types. Get them angry enough and they might show up regardless of whether it's Trump or Rubio at the helm.
posted by jimmythefish at 4:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Loved the first two comments over on Gawker:
Christopher Hooks
1/15/16 4:06pm
I saw this movie. And the one thing I don’t understand is how come Congress has yet to investigate what happened at Benghazi. Makes no sense to me. We need to find out what really happened there.
410
Reply
cepalg
ThenSA
1/15/16 4:11pm
Agreed. Can’t believe congress has yet to investigate this in any way, shape or form. You’d think they’d be all over it, thanks to the Clinton connection.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [46 favorites]
Christopher Hooks
1/15/16 4:06pm
I saw this movie. And the one thing I don’t understand is how come Congress has yet to investigate what happened at Benghazi. Makes no sense to me. We need to find out what really happened there.
410
Reply
cepalg
ThenSA
1/15/16 4:11pm
Agreed. Can’t believe congress has yet to investigate this in any way, shape or form. You’d think they’d be all over it, thanks to the Clinton connection.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [46 favorites]
I think "malformed" is the word you're looking for.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:11 PM on January 15, 2016 [46 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:11 PM on January 15, 2016 [46 favorites]
Or being sarcastic.
posted by hippybear at 4:12 PM on January 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 4:12 PM on January 15, 2016 [37 favorites]
If only there wasn't a black guy as President and a woman as the Secretary of State. All of this could have been avoided.
/s
posted by Talez at 4:12 PM on January 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
/s
posted by Talez at 4:12 PM on January 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
Those comments (well, at least the second one) are definitely sarcasm. He becomes increasingly sarcastic the more he's believed.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:14 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:14 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Those comments (well, at least the second one) are definitely sarcasm. He becomes increasingly sarcastic the more he's believed.
I think you may be misunderestimating them.
posted by jimmythefish at 4:14 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I think you may be misunderestimating them.
posted by jimmythefish at 4:14 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Fucking Poe and his stupid law.
posted by Talez at 4:18 PM on January 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Talez at 4:18 PM on January 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
Or being sarcastic.
Oh, I should have read the prior comments. I thought we were talking about the 30,000 people described in the article, not the sarcastic dudes in the Gawker comment section.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:18 PM on January 15, 2016
Oh, I should have read the prior comments. I thought we were talking about the 30,000 people described in the article, not the sarcastic dudes in the Gawker comment section.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:18 PM on January 15, 2016
So it's a full length in-kind ad for Trump.
Yep - Trump rents Iowa theater to show Benghazi movie
posted by zakur at 4:21 PM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yep - Trump rents Iowa theater to show Benghazi movie
posted by zakur at 4:21 PM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Gawker commenter ThenSA is pure sarcastic gold:
I thought maybe Bengazi thing was something that happened like 40 years ago.
Maybe they should do another one to see if they can find more details about what happened. We should not have to rely on Hollywood to investigate this!
I thought Ben Ghazi was actually going to be Michael Bay as like an extra in the movie. Like how in the new Star Wars, the one guy is named “Ello Atsy” and has a Beastie Boys reference on his helmet.
Well, they might have had hearings in 2014, 2015 and 2016, but I didn’t see any reports. Maybe instead of a hearing, they need an investigation.
I CARE BECAUSE I SAW THE MOVIE! THIS IS AMERICA! THERE IS NO LIMIT TO CARING!
pICK UP A NEWSPAPER?
yEA, WHATEVER, GRAMPS!
Maybe I should just wait to hear a telegraph about it too!
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:21 PM on January 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
I thought maybe Bengazi thing was something that happened like 40 years ago.
Maybe they should do another one to see if they can find more details about what happened. We should not have to rely on Hollywood to investigate this!
I thought Ben Ghazi was actually going to be Michael Bay as like an extra in the movie. Like how in the new Star Wars, the one guy is named “Ello Atsy” and has a Beastie Boys reference on his helmet.
Well, they might have had hearings in 2014, 2015 and 2016, but I didn’t see any reports. Maybe instead of a hearing, they need an investigation.
I CARE BECAUSE I SAW THE MOVIE! THIS IS AMERICA! THERE IS NO LIMIT TO CARING!
pICK UP A NEWSPAPER?
yEA, WHATEVER, GRAMPS!
Maybe I should just wait to hear a telegraph about it too!
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:21 PM on January 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
Bay has always been a US Military(well anyone who gives him money really) shill. His transformers movies are chock full of rah rah tanks and jets and American Military might fuck yeah.
I will admit I had a ton of fun with finding all the product placement in transformers 4 though. My favorites: Tucci drinking Yili Milk and the Oreo vending transformer. Which I missed watching the movie and thought it was just an internet joke but no, it was real.
posted by M Edward at 4:22 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I will admit I had a ton of fun with finding all the product placement in transformers 4 though. My favorites: Tucci drinking Yili Milk and the Oreo vending transformer. Which I missed watching the movie and thought it was just an internet joke but no, it was real.
posted by M Edward at 4:22 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Fucking Poe and his stupid law.
"Record 2 albums and disappear." Poe is a she by the way.
posted by hippybear at 4:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
"Record 2 albums and disappear." Poe is a she by the way.
posted by hippybear at 4:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [13 favorites]
There is some might fine trolling in the comments.
posted by kanewai at 4:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by kanewai at 4:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I found this article pretty terrifying. The willful ignorance!
> I doubt it will make any difference politically. People who are going to think Benghazi is an evil cover-up by Clinton and Co. already do, and people who aren't won't be swayed by this.
Based on that argument, no position or policy taken by a candidate will have any effect, because voters so very rarely change their voting affiliation.
But this argument is wrong. Modern politics is about getting the vote out. Anyone who sees that movie and "agrees" with it will be sure to get out and vote against Ms. Clinton if she is one of the candidates.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
> I doubt it will make any difference politically. People who are going to think Benghazi is an evil cover-up by Clinton and Co. already do, and people who aren't won't be swayed by this.
Based on that argument, no position or policy taken by a candidate will have any effect, because voters so very rarely change their voting affiliation.
But this argument is wrong. Modern politics is about getting the vote out. Anyone who sees that movie and "agrees" with it will be sure to get out and vote against Ms. Clinton if she is one of the candidates.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 4:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think that if I don't somehow come to understand the parts of my fellow citizens that respond strongly to this kind of church-service-like event, and to the loud explody yelling martial sentiment and presentation of the movie, then I will never be able to communicate with them well enough for us to work together to make the world _actually_ safer and better.
posted by amtho at 4:24 PM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by amtho at 4:24 PM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
Chris Cornell? Really?
As we superknow, there are superknown superknowns; there are things we superknow we superknow. We also superknow there are superknown superunknowns; that is to say we superknow there are some things we do not superknow. But there are also superunknown superunknowns – the ones we don't superknow we don't superknow.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:24 PM on January 15, 2016 [108 favorites]
As we superknow, there are superknown superknowns; there are things we superknow we superknow. We also superknow there are superknown superunknowns; that is to say we superknow there are some things we do not superknow. But there are also superunknown superunknowns – the ones we don't superknow we don't superknow.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:24 PM on January 15, 2016 [108 favorites]
Also, Krasinski seems to have zero lines in the trailers for this film. What is up with that?
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on January 15, 2016
Not that the trailers are dialogue-heavy.
I just think there are clues there. Clues about how other people think, and how to communicate with them.
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I just think there are clues there. Clues about how other people think, and how to communicate with them.
posted by amtho at 4:25 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
O Bay can you see by the dawn's early fight...
posted by FallowKing at 4:25 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by FallowKing at 4:25 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Also, Krasinski seems to have zero lines in the trailers for this film. What is up with that?
He doesn't have any lines. He just spends the whole movie raising his eyebrows at the camera.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:26 PM on January 15, 2016 [65 favorites]
He doesn't have any lines. He just spends the whole movie raising his eyebrows at the camera.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:26 PM on January 15, 2016 [65 favorites]
Oh man, I am bummed John Krasinski is in this. I like to nurture a little lifelong crush on him, due to watching the Jim-and-Pam -centric seasons of the Office during a vulnerable and impressionable time in my life, but him agreeing to be in a jingoistic and racist (I've heard) Bay movie kind of takes the shine off.
posted by aka burlap at 4:33 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by aka burlap at 4:33 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
As we superknow, there are superknown superknowns...
*gives Sys Rq the badmotorfinger*
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:33 PM on January 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
*gives Sys Rq the badmotorfinger*
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:33 PM on January 15, 2016 [21 favorites]
I would be annoyed by this if I were Clinton, three weeks out from two primaries she is very likely to lose. She still has a very good shot at the nomination, but narrative is everything, and if people simply stay home, that's not good for her.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:35 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 4:35 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
*gives Sys Rq the badmotorfinger*
Face it, you've been outshined.
posted by dr_dank at 4:37 PM on January 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Face it, you've been outshined.
posted by dr_dank at 4:37 PM on January 15, 2016 [12 favorites]
Who plays Vile Rat?
Guess what internet forum is deeply unamused by this movie.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:38 PM on January 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Guess what internet forum is deeply unamused by this movie.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:38 PM on January 15, 2016 [15 favorites]
Modern politics is about getting the vote out. Anyone who sees that movie and "agrees" with it will be sure to get out and vote against Ms. Clinton if she is one of the candidates.
Not if they were already upset about Benghazi. Thats the question, does anyone who wasn't already angry about it get angry about it because of this? I'm sure the number of such voters is not 0, but I do not think it will be a significant factor. I guess that depends if we're talking about a razor-thin margin election like 2000 or a blowout like 2008. (The part of me that has not given up on life hopes that if Trump is the nominee we'll have something more like 2008, but who knows)
posted by thefoxgod at 4:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Not if they were already upset about Benghazi. Thats the question, does anyone who wasn't already angry about it get angry about it because of this? I'm sure the number of such voters is not 0, but I do not think it will be a significant factor. I guess that depends if we're talking about a razor-thin margin election like 2000 or a blowout like 2008. (The part of me that has not given up on life hopes that if Trump is the nominee we'll have something more like 2008, but who knows)
posted by thefoxgod at 4:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Just by existing this movie will keep people talking about the Benghazi "conspiracy", and you can bet your ass there are plenty of dopes who will come out of the theater believing that what they saw onscreen is true. People believe shit in the movies. We ALL believe stupid shit we've seen in the movies.
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:43 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by Ursula Hitler at 4:43 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Who plays Vile Rat
That was my first thought when I first saw the trailer.
Looks like Christopher Dingli
posted by Jalliah at 4:43 PM on January 15, 2016
Guess what internet forum is deeply unamused by this movie.
No shit. I developed a lifelong loathing for Romney after watching him smirk after that press conference—the idea of this movie is just infuriating.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:47 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
No shit. I developed a lifelong loathing for Romney after watching him smirk after that press conference—the idea of this movie is just infuriating.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:47 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I would be annoyed by this if I were Clinton, three weeks out from two primaries she is very likely to lose
538 blog is saying Hillary has an 82% chance of winning Iowa.
posted by sweetkid at 4:52 PM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
538 blog is saying Hillary has an 82% chance of winning Iowa.
posted by sweetkid at 4:52 PM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Also, Krasinski seems to have zero lines in the trailers for this film. What is up with that?
It's Michael Bay, only the explosions have dialogue.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:56 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
It's Michael Bay, only the explosions have dialogue.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:56 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
Modern politics is about getting the vote out.
Yeah, but the vote is as out as it's going to get amongst this third of the right. What does this kind of propaganda do except act as a pseudo-two-minutes-hate? The base has been sufficiently ginned up - at this point they risk either losing control of the tiger they're riding (some would argue the Trump phenom is exactly that), or setting themselves up for dashed hopes, unrealistic expectations, or frothing-at-the-mouth fatigue. What happens when their much-vaunted base gets to the end of August and is just tapped-out: financially, emotionally, spiritually? I find it hard to believe that they've got that kind of energy, even if I'm grossly underestimating the amount of crazy they have stored up.
Of course 'the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent' is a terrifying concept in the marketplace of ideas, too.
*shudders*
posted by eclectist at 4:57 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
Yeah, but the vote is as out as it's going to get amongst this third of the right. What does this kind of propaganda do except act as a pseudo-two-minutes-hate? The base has been sufficiently ginned up - at this point they risk either losing control of the tiger they're riding (some would argue the Trump phenom is exactly that), or setting themselves up for dashed hopes, unrealistic expectations, or frothing-at-the-mouth fatigue. What happens when their much-vaunted base gets to the end of August and is just tapped-out: financially, emotionally, spiritually? I find it hard to believe that they've got that kind of energy, even if I'm grossly underestimating the amount of crazy they have stored up.
Of course 'the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent' is a terrifying concept in the marketplace of ideas, too.
*shudders*
posted by eclectist at 4:57 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
I would be annoyed by this if I were Clinton, three weeks out from two primaries she is very likely to lose. She still has a very good shot at the nomination, but narrative is everything, and if people simply stay home, that's not good for her.
I'm pretty sure Democratic primary voters are neither the intended nor the resultant audience for this particular kind of weirdness. I mean, Clinton's primary antagonists at this stage are to her left, the sort of folks who figure we shouldn't have been in Benghazi or anywhere near it in the first place. Whereas the main thrust of the film seems to be the lack of guns, soldiers (the main characters are military contractors for the CIA base up the street) and manly courage on the ground. This isn't the sort of "narrative" that anyone considering boarding the Bernie Bus is going to find attractive.
posted by AdamCSnider at 4:58 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm pretty sure Democratic primary voters are neither the intended nor the resultant audience for this particular kind of weirdness. I mean, Clinton's primary antagonists at this stage are to her left, the sort of folks who figure we shouldn't have been in Benghazi or anywhere near it in the first place. Whereas the main thrust of the film seems to be the lack of guns, soldiers (the main characters are military contractors for the CIA base up the street) and manly courage on the ground. This isn't the sort of "narrative" that anyone considering boarding the Bernie Bus is going to find attractive.
posted by AdamCSnider at 4:58 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
The O'Malley surge is coming!
posted by Drinky Die at 5:03 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 5:03 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
I like O'Malley.
posted by sweetkid at 5:10 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sweetkid at 5:10 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I find it hard to imagine that there's a whole lot of intersection between people who would go to this movie and Democratic primary voters and it will be pretty well forgotten by November.
posted by octothorpe at 5:19 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 5:19 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
So, I wonder how many of them were carrying a card with the Texas laws on statutory rape?
posted by eriko at 5:22 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by eriko at 5:22 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've heard people saying Trump's issue is he has no Leni Reifenstahl. Like witness the terribad propaganda girl singers from last night or whatever... But I think he does, and Michael Bay is it...
posted by symbioid at 5:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by symbioid at 5:23 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
I've heard people saying Trump's issue is he has no Leni Reifenstahl.
Hitler's mechanisms.. the mass choreographed torchlight parades and the gigantic tightly militaristic gatherings... were already in place before Riefenstahl came along to film them for Triumph Of The Will. It's not like Riefenstahl was in the bierhalle the nights Hitler was giving speeches trying to foment his first attempt at government overthrow... She came along well after his entire organization had gotten to full throttle.
It's a bad comparison, and a Godwin, and isn't worth our time.
posted by hippybear at 5:26 PM on January 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Hitler's mechanisms.. the mass choreographed torchlight parades and the gigantic tightly militaristic gatherings... were already in place before Riefenstahl came along to film them for Triumph Of The Will. It's not like Riefenstahl was in the bierhalle the nights Hitler was giving speeches trying to foment his first attempt at government overthrow... She came along well after his entire organization had gotten to full throttle.
It's a bad comparison, and a Godwin, and isn't worth our time.
posted by hippybear at 5:26 PM on January 15, 2016 [11 favorites]
Thanks, Citizens United!
posted by gyc at 5:31 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gyc at 5:31 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
The idea of "Godwin's Law" is an artifact of an earlier and better time. This shit's fascist.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [63 favorites]
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [63 favorites]
Former CIA chief in Benghazi challenges the story line of the new movie “13 Hours”
It is the most fateful moment in a movie that purports to present a searingly accurate account of the 2012 attacks that left four Americans dead in Benghazi, Libya: a scene in which the highest-ranking CIA operative at a secret agency compound orders his security team to “stand down” rather than rush off to rescue U.S. diplomats under siege less than a mile away.posted by peeedro at 5:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
According to the officer in charge of the CIA’s Benghazi base that night, the scene in the movie is entirely untrue.
"Dawn. Leni Riefenstahl And her cameras slowly inflate the immense Nuremberg Rally. The Colorado looks up in awe at the Grand Canyon It has made. Hitler. European clouds. 1934. Empty Thought-balloons high above Lascaux Without a thought inside. The Fuhrer Is ice that's fire, physically small. They all were. Stalin. Trotsky's little glasses Disappear behind a cloud From which he won't emerge alive. The small plane carrying The Grail to Nuremberg got Wagnerian clouds To fly through, enormous, enormous. Mine eyes have seen the glory, it Taxis to a stop. The cabin door swings open. Leni schussed from motion pictures To still photography after the war. From the Aryan ideal, climbed out In Africa to shoot the wild shy people of Kau, Small heads, tall, the most beautiful animals in the world. Artistically mounted them into ideal Riefenstahl. Riefenstahl! Riefenstahl! Riefenstahl! Really, From blonds in black-and-white to blacks in color. Now Pol Pot came to power. Now in London Sylvia Plath Nailed one foot to the floor; And with the other walked And walked and walked through the terrible blood."
-Frederick Seidel.
posted by clavdivs at 5:45 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
-Frederick Seidel.
posted by clavdivs at 5:45 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
These people are 'patriots' in the same way North Korea is a 'democratic republic.'
posted by Zalzidrax at 6:33 PM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 6:33 PM on January 15, 2016 [7 favorites]
Is that with politics and virtue, or the amount of nuclear weapons they control.
posted by clavdivs at 6:40 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by clavdivs at 6:40 PM on January 15, 2016
you can bet your ass there are plenty of dopes who will come out of the theater believing that what they saw onscreen is true
That is the only reason this movie exists.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
That is the only reason this movie exists.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:41 PM on January 15, 2016 [17 favorites]
This all part of Bay's plan to create the largest explosion the world has ever seen.
posted by srboisvert at 6:45 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 6:45 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
As a proud resident of the weirdness of Dallas... (I thought I would hate this place 18 years ago, but kind of love it now that I got in cheap in Oak Cliff)
But Arlington is more than just the home of a bad football team: It’s the spiritual center of the Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex, a great galactic plane of young suburbs home to some of the most reactionary politics in the country. What happens here steers America, but it’s often less visible in the wider culture than what happens elsewhere.
Arlington IS NOT any sort of "spiritual center" of the metroplex. Arlington is not a cultural destination. It is the Six Flags, candy coated, every chain restaurant imaginable, place that is a good central location to put a stadium. I hate that the metroplex gets characterized this way... there is some amazing shit here.
posted by Benway at 6:53 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
But Arlington is more than just the home of a bad football team: It’s the spiritual center of the Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex, a great galactic plane of young suburbs home to some of the most reactionary politics in the country. What happens here steers America, but it’s often less visible in the wider culture than what happens elsewhere.
Arlington IS NOT any sort of "spiritual center" of the metroplex. Arlington is not a cultural destination. It is the Six Flags, candy coated, every chain restaurant imaginable, place that is a good central location to put a stadium. I hate that the metroplex gets characterized this way... there is some amazing shit here.
posted by Benway at 6:53 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Oddly, when I was going to school in Sherman TX back in the 80s, it was widely recognized that Ft Worth was the cultural center of the metroplex.
posted by hippybear at 6:59 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 6:59 PM on January 15, 2016 [4 favorites]
It would appear that ultra-nationalism is once again profitable and now neo-fascism is cool. Anyone else getting a little jittery about all this??
posted by Muncle at 7:17 PM on January 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Muncle at 7:17 PM on January 15, 2016 [16 favorites]
Oddly, when I was going to school in Sherman TX back in the 80s, it was widely recognized that Ft Worth was the cultural center of the metroplex.
This was true before Dallas made the arts district a thing. Which has had some stumbles...but got it right with Clyde Warren Park...which ties the arts community together. It's not perfect, but the park is bustling instead of a freeway dividing downtown and uptown.
posted by Benway at 7:18 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
This was true before Dallas made the arts district a thing. Which has had some stumbles...but got it right with Clyde Warren Park...which ties the arts community together. It's not perfect, but the park is bustling instead of a freeway dividing downtown and uptown.
posted by Benway at 7:18 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I have not seen the movie so it is hard to comment on it, but for those who have, what about it is inaccurate? Are the facts wrong? Is it distortion by omission? Is it a different interpretation of the same facts?
What always struck me about criticism about events like what happened in Benghazi, is that it is easy to 2nd guess decisions, especially ones that don't have positive endings, in hindsight. Isn't it possible that with the information available to the decision makers at the time, that the decision to not send help immediately was a reasonable one even if in hindsight we might do things differently?
I have a son in the Marines and I happen to think that a large response is best, but I totally appreciate that there are so many more factors that go into decisions like this and that I am coming to that conclusion after the fact, not during it. I guess I am predisposed to say, "What?! Send in the Marines!" but if I were President or Secretary of State or Defense Secretary, I am not so sure that I would make the same decision.
Having said that, I still wouldn't vote for Sen Clinton or Madame Secretary, but not because of Benghazi.
posted by AugustWest at 7:32 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
What always struck me about criticism about events like what happened in Benghazi, is that it is easy to 2nd guess decisions, especially ones that don't have positive endings, in hindsight. Isn't it possible that with the information available to the decision makers at the time, that the decision to not send help immediately was a reasonable one even if in hindsight we might do things differently?
I have a son in the Marines and I happen to think that a large response is best, but I totally appreciate that there are so many more factors that go into decisions like this and that I am coming to that conclusion after the fact, not during it. I guess I am predisposed to say, "What?! Send in the Marines!" but if I were President or Secretary of State or Defense Secretary, I am not so sure that I would make the same decision.
Having said that, I still wouldn't vote for Sen Clinton or Madame Secretary, but not because of Benghazi.
posted by AugustWest at 7:32 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just when we thought the B word would become a meh Libyan town again, after the investigations and money spent, nope, it is the duh plank the right uses for traction. Guys who get their adrenalin up listening to shock radio can't live without it, a powerful drug, that makes them feel like heroes, like wise men when they say it. We are in terrible times that have not yet unfolded, we have so many unemployed trained killers who answered the call of Bush's two wars, the combination of internet and radio magic voodoo, has these people taking themselves seriously. They will be hard to outsmart, these steroidal, maniac, gun totin' freaks who know what's best for the rest of us. Then added to that those glued to combat games, who have been sitting in front of killing screens for 20 years now. I worry there is an unchanneled army just waiting for the secret prompt.
I can't help hooking this up with what is happening over on that bird refuge. I am worried it is just a warm up for the civil war that is coming. People forget that war is the stupidest thing we do.
posted by Oyéah at 7:37 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
I can't help hooking this up with what is happening over on that bird refuge. I am worried it is just a warm up for the civil war that is coming. People forget that war is the stupidest thing we do.
posted by Oyéah at 7:37 PM on January 15, 2016 [9 favorites]
God:
Others were less sanguine. “Oh yeah. I’d shoot Hillary Clinton in the fuckin’ head. I don’t like the bitch at all,” said Len Toomey, who identified himself as a veteran of Desert Storm and Somalia. He’d seen the movie with some VFW friends. “Choke her. She should be in the pisser and I should be pissin’ on her every night.”
One of the women with him laughed. “She’s just like G.I. Jane,” Toomey said. “She needs to be kissin’ my ass.
This is the strongest I've wanted Hillary Clinton to become president ever.
posted by JHarris at 7:42 PM on January 15, 2016 [55 favorites]
Others were less sanguine. “Oh yeah. I’d shoot Hillary Clinton in the fuckin’ head. I don’t like the bitch at all,” said Len Toomey, who identified himself as a veteran of Desert Storm and Somalia. He’d seen the movie with some VFW friends. “Choke her. She should be in the pisser and I should be pissin’ on her every night.”
One of the women with him laughed. “She’s just like G.I. Jane,” Toomey said. “She needs to be kissin’ my ass.
This is the strongest I've wanted Hillary Clinton to become president ever.
posted by JHarris at 7:42 PM on January 15, 2016 [55 favorites]
Also, they're thinking of Hanoi Jane.
G.I. Jane was a Demi Moore movie.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:48 PM on January 15, 2016 [84 favorites]
G.I. Jane was a Demi Moore movie.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:48 PM on January 15, 2016 [84 favorites]
Based only on seeing the preview, this looks like Black Hawk Down minus every iota of realism, smartness, and craft. Not just bad, but stultifyingly, terribly bad.
And sadly, probably it will be seen by future historians as influential on this election.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:54 PM on January 15, 2016
And sadly, probably it will be seen by future historians as influential on this election.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:54 PM on January 15, 2016
I have not seen the movie so it is hard to comment on it, but for those who have, what about it is inaccurate? Are the facts wrong? Is it distortion by omission? Is it a different interpretation of the same facts?
You should check out the link from this comment. There wasn't really any support in range, if there was it would have been sent. America does not abandon our people unless there really isn't a choice, especially when you are talking about someone as high profile as an ambassador.
The criticism that the contractors should have moved faster is hindsight. You just can't run out guns blazing in that situation when you don't know what the hell is going on, they moved as fast as they reasonably could.
If there is a valid criticism of the whole thing, to my eyes, it's more about our approach to military intervention in general. In my estimation, if you feel it is essential to launch a military attack on a nation with the goal of overthrowing a government, you should do it with overwhelming force in the air and on the ground. But modern America doesn't want that, we want to intervene without anybody dying and do it all on the cheap.
If the cause isn't worth American deaths or American money because of fear of political backlash, to my eyes, it's not worth American intervention. We should not have been in that country in the first place if it wasn't worth having resources in range to defend our people. Put the boots on the ground in numbers if you absolutely have to go. If you have to go to war, doing it halfass is a really dumb way to do it.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:55 PM on January 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
You should check out the link from this comment. There wasn't really any support in range, if there was it would have been sent. America does not abandon our people unless there really isn't a choice, especially when you are talking about someone as high profile as an ambassador.
The criticism that the contractors should have moved faster is hindsight. You just can't run out guns blazing in that situation when you don't know what the hell is going on, they moved as fast as they reasonably could.
If there is a valid criticism of the whole thing, to my eyes, it's more about our approach to military intervention in general. In my estimation, if you feel it is essential to launch a military attack on a nation with the goal of overthrowing a government, you should do it with overwhelming force in the air and on the ground. But modern America doesn't want that, we want to intervene without anybody dying and do it all on the cheap.
If the cause isn't worth American deaths or American money because of fear of political backlash, to my eyes, it's not worth American intervention. We should not have been in that country in the first place if it wasn't worth having resources in range to defend our people. Put the boots on the ground in numbers if you absolutely have to go. If you have to go to war, doing it halfass is a really dumb way to do it.
posted by Drinky Die at 7:55 PM on January 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
Surprise surprise, Twitter is full of people who think they just saw a documentary.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:06 PM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:06 PM on January 15, 2016 [6 favorites]
You Can't Tip a Buick: "The idea of "Godwin's Law" is an artifact of an earlier and better time. This shit's fascist."
Yeah but at least Hugo Boss designed snazzy uniforms.
posted by symbioid at 8:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
Yeah but at least Hugo Boss designed snazzy uniforms.
posted by symbioid at 8:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [8 favorites]
This is where we are now as Americans. A lot of people spent a lot of time and effort and money programming a lot of Americans to buy into a country-song narrative, where Real Americans gnash their teeth while liberals are simultaneously too stupid to manage a hot dog cart (let alone foreign affairs) and demonically crafty criminal masterminds, selling out American lives in the name of kowtowing to Islam and twirling their Snidely Whiplash mustaches while spinning coverups that no Congressional investigation can pierce.
At least when the left painted Dick Cheney and his fellow neocons as being Darth Vaders causing wars in the name of power, oil and money, we had some evidence to go on. Like their own words.
I have not seen the movie so it is hard to comment on it, but for those who have, what about it is inaccurate? Are the facts wrong? Is it distortion by omission? Is it a different interpretation of the same facts?
I have not seen the movie either. I have no way of knowing precisely what happened that night, and neither does anyone who wasn't (a) there or (b) wired extremely heavily into the intelligence community. In lieu of that, I have to consider this; the attack and what led to it have been investigated by Congress EIGHT TIMES from a variety of perspectives. No one has presented credible evidence of a 'stand down' order, of immediate responses that could have been made but were prevented, or of the State Department deliberately endangering the Benghazi embassy.
There is a big divide separating "the State Department made some mistakes" and "the State Department were whimpering simps who sold out Brave Americans to maintain its Middle Eastern narrative and win the 2012 election, and prevented Real Men from saving the day." From all descriptions I have read, take a guess which way this movie leans.
posted by delfin at 8:08 PM on January 15, 2016 [33 favorites]
At least when the left painted Dick Cheney and his fellow neocons as being Darth Vaders causing wars in the name of power, oil and money, we had some evidence to go on. Like their own words.
I have not seen the movie so it is hard to comment on it, but for those who have, what about it is inaccurate? Are the facts wrong? Is it distortion by omission? Is it a different interpretation of the same facts?
I have not seen the movie either. I have no way of knowing precisely what happened that night, and neither does anyone who wasn't (a) there or (b) wired extremely heavily into the intelligence community. In lieu of that, I have to consider this; the attack and what led to it have been investigated by Congress EIGHT TIMES from a variety of perspectives. No one has presented credible evidence of a 'stand down' order, of immediate responses that could have been made but were prevented, or of the State Department deliberately endangering the Benghazi embassy.
There is a big divide separating "the State Department made some mistakes" and "the State Department were whimpering simps who sold out Brave Americans to maintain its Middle Eastern narrative and win the 2012 election, and prevented Real Men from saving the day." From all descriptions I have read, take a guess which way this movie leans.
posted by delfin at 8:08 PM on January 15, 2016 [33 favorites]
"you absolutely have to go. If you have to go to war, doing it halfass is a really dumb way to do we get him on?"
Sun-Tzu could disagree.
Half-assed is a basic tenet of deceptive warfare. Planned Half-assed is an entirely legitimate strategy and thriving industry world wide!
For example, Panama. About the stupidest invasion in "modern" history. Why, don't let generals run the canal especially when they pull the YA-YEH whistle.
Personally, it's a bi-partisan problem in "modern" times to trust 90% of BIG SAMS' coffee table book of brokered history and oil fired dreams.
posted by clavdivs at 8:16 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sun-Tzu could disagree.
Half-assed is a basic tenet of deceptive warfare. Planned Half-assed is an entirely legitimate strategy and thriving industry world wide!
For example, Panama. About the stupidest invasion in "modern" history. Why, don't let generals run the canal especially when they pull the YA-YEH whistle.
Personally, it's a bi-partisan problem in "modern" times to trust 90% of BIG SAMS' coffee table book of brokered history and oil fired dreams.
posted by clavdivs at 8:16 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
This is where we are now as Americans. A lot of people spent a lot of time and effort and money programming a lot of Americans to buy into a country-song narrative, where Real Americans gnash their teeth while liberals are simultaneously too stupid to manage a hot dog cart (let alone foreign affairs) and demonically crafty criminal masterminds, selling out American lives in the name of kowtowing to Islam and twirling their Snidely Whiplash mustaches while spinning coverups that no Congressional investigation can pierce.
Cognitive dissonance is part and parcel of the whole, and has been for a while. See also: the blacks are lazy and stupid but also a desperate threat to white society, the mexicans are lazy but also stealing all the jobs.
But it doesn't matter. This movie is another shibboleth. It'll make bank and people will believe it and truth will be sacrificed on the altar of marketability. Everything will just always get worse.
posted by kafziel at 8:17 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
Cognitive dissonance is part and parcel of the whole, and has been for a while. See also: the blacks are lazy and stupid but also a desperate threat to white society, the mexicans are lazy but also stealing all the jobs.
But it doesn't matter. This movie is another shibboleth. It'll make bank and people will believe it and truth will be sacrificed on the altar of marketability. Everything will just always get worse.
posted by kafziel at 8:17 PM on January 15, 2016 [3 favorites]
The book was pretty good, and non partisan. It will be interesting to contrast and compare with the movie.
posted by theorique at 8:49 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by theorique at 8:49 PM on January 15, 2016
A culture in which sacrifice is glorified, but the reason for the sacrifice—and the wisdom of it—need not be addressed.
Remember the Alamo!
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Remember the Alamo!
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:07 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
"She should be in the pisser and I should be pissin’ on her every night."
What a sick, misogynist fuckhead this US veteran is.
posted by markkraft at 9:38 PM on January 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
What a sick, misogynist fuckhead this US veteran is.
posted by markkraft at 9:38 PM on January 15, 2016 [19 favorites]
"When people say fascism in the modern age won't look exactly the same as it did previously, this is what they mean."
At least Leni Riefenstahl was more subtle, with a better eye for cinematography and strong imagery.
posted by markkraft at 9:58 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
At least Leni Riefenstahl was more subtle, with a better eye for cinematography and strong imagery.
posted by markkraft at 9:58 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Krasinski was on Bill Maher tonight. He obviously hadn't read either the Washington Post or Vox pieces linked above.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:02 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by ob1quixote at 10:02 PM on January 15, 2016
Does Maher or somebody on the panel challenge him or do I want to just skip this episode?
posted by Drinky Die at 10:04 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by Drinky Die at 10:04 PM on January 15, 2016
Mod note: One deleted; go ahead and repost with a shorter excerpt rather than a text dump, and in general please use the blockquote tag rather than the code tag for that kind of quoting. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:05 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:05 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Geez, guys, it's a Michael Bay movie. He probably had the whole thing storyboarded years before the actual attack on the Libyan embassy. There is no subtext to his movies beyond "and shit got blowed up real goddam good".
posted by sideshow at 10:29 PM on January 15, 2016
posted by sideshow at 10:29 PM on January 15, 2016
"what about it is inaccurate? Are the facts wrong? Is it distortion by omission?"
It has several elements which fundamentally disagree on the established facts... even disagreeing with the Republican-led committee's findings, with apparent attempt to provoke scandal and throw red meat to the conspiracy theorists.
posted by markkraft at 10:31 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
It has several elements which fundamentally disagree on the established facts... even disagreeing with the Republican-led committee's findings, with apparent attempt to provoke scandal and throw red meat to the conspiracy theorists.
posted by markkraft at 10:31 PM on January 15, 2016 [5 favorites]
Drinky Die: “Does Maher or somebody on the panel challenge him or do I want to just skip this episode?”Well, the other guests are Nicolle Wallace, Cornel West, and Ralph Reed so it has its moments. But, no, nobody really disputes the idea of the CIA station chief calling for a "stand down." Maher even sets Krasinski up with a softball on that subject. To his credit, he doesn't rise to the bait. He says, paraphrasing, "It was so crazy that night, it was like a car wreck. While it was happening, everybody was just reacting and nobody had any real idea what was going on."
The "Overtime" segment is up, and it gets a little Maher-y, but it's got a great moment where Dr. West gets a standing ovation from Krasinski. So there's that.
posted by ob1quixote at 10:32 PM on January 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
It has several elements which fundamentally disagree on the established facts... even disagreeing with the Republican-led committee's findings, with apparent attempt to provoke scandal and throw red meat to the conspiracy theorists.
This is a really good breakdown, worth clicking through and reading the whole thing.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:33 PM on January 15, 2016
This is a really good breakdown, worth clicking through and reading the whole thing.
posted by Drinky Die at 10:33 PM on January 15, 2016
It would appear that ultra-nationalism is once again profitable and now neo-fascism is cool. Anyone else getting a little jittery about all this??
r/canada has become a cesspool, suddenly invaded by bigoted trolls. Harper incited them during the election, several news sites got rid of the comments section, and I think there's spillover from American superPAC and media manipulation machines.
I don't think we've seen the worst of this Presidential election yet. Get ready for The Fear. Voters are going to be rallied to a war candidate.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:39 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
r/canada has become a cesspool, suddenly invaded by bigoted trolls. Harper incited them during the election, several news sites got rid of the comments section, and I think there's spillover from American superPAC and media manipulation machines.
I don't think we've seen the worst of this Presidential election yet. Get ready for The Fear. Voters are going to be rallied to a war candidate.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:39 PM on January 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
So.. .can we look forward to a $100M Hollywood blockbuster documenting the intentional disregard for intelligence and the numerous failings involved in the hijacking of US planes that went into 9/11, followed by the mendacity and venal, self-serving lies that went into the invasion of Iraq?
What about the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut that killed 241 U.S. military personnel, under Reagan's watch? Or maybe the backstory on how Reagan and the CIA created Osama Bin Laden and spread Islamic radicalism throughout the Islamic world, leading to the death of well over 100,000 civilians worldwide from terrorism?
... or perhaps it is still too soon?!
posted by markkraft at 10:53 PM on January 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
What about the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut that killed 241 U.S. military personnel, under Reagan's watch? Or maybe the backstory on how Reagan and the CIA created Osama Bin Laden and spread Islamic radicalism throughout the Islamic world, leading to the death of well over 100,000 civilians worldwide from terrorism?
... or perhaps it is still too soon?!
posted by markkraft at 10:53 PM on January 15, 2016 [29 favorites]
The "Overtime" segment is up, and it gets a little Maher-y, but it's got a great moment where Dr. West gets a standing ovation from Krasinski. So there's that.
posted by ob1quixote 41 minutes ago [1 favorite +] [!]
I usually don't think Bill Maher comes off best in an exchange, especially against Cornell fucking West, but...that whole thing was weird. Really rethinking Krasinski right now.
posted by sweetkid at 11:21 PM on January 15, 2016
It's kind of funny we're making a movie that sincerely portrays security contractors as heroes trying to save the lives of US State Dept staff, because just a few more years ago security contractors threatened to straight up kill State Dept staff members for wanting to investigate them for killing civilians.
posted by FJT at 12:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [36 favorites]
posted by FJT at 12:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [36 favorites]
At this point, Benghazi is akin to the birther movement for Obama and 9-11 conspiracy theories before that, right? Like, you can stop listening to an argument when Benghazi is brought up?
posted by snwod at 12:31 AM on January 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by snwod at 12:31 AM on January 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Michael Bay has a long history of having excellent actors in his movies. Will Smith, Ed Harris, David Morse, Steve Buscemi, William Fincher, Cuba Gooding Jr, Sean Bean, Scarlett Johansson, John Turturro, Francis McDormand, John Malkovich, Tony Shalhoub, Stanley Tucci, Leonard Nimoy, and many many more.
I don't think it's fair to judge Jon Krasinski harshly for taking a paycheck from Bay. Even Buzz Aldrin has done it.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 12:42 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
I don't think it's fair to judge Jon Krasinski harshly for taking a paycheck from Bay. Even Buzz Aldrin has done it.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 12:42 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Pfft, like we should care what some moon landing faker thinks. Bay is just covering for the deeper conspiracy.
posted by Drinky Die at 12:48 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 12:48 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
At this point, Benghazi is akin to the birther movement for Obama and 9-11 conspiracy theories before that, right? Like, you can stop listening to an argument when Benghazi is brought up?
The primary difference is that unlike Birthers and Truthers, no one has come up with a pithy way to describe Benghazi conspiracy enthusiasts.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:45 AM on January 16, 2016
The primary difference is that unlike Birthers and Truthers, no one has come up with a pithy way to describe Benghazi conspiracy enthusiasts.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:45 AM on January 16, 2016
This fetishisation of the military and desperate belief in one's own cultural superiority - this is what end of empire looks like. Like late on in a mid-life crisis, when you've gone beyond the red sports car, combing over the bald spot and trying to pick up blondes in bars; when you've moved on to intimidating callow youths and blameless shop assistants to prove to yourself that you've still got it. Whatever it is.
posted by Grangousier at 2:03 AM on January 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 2:03 AM on January 16, 2016 [17 favorites]
Oh, and aren't "military contractors" essentially mercenaries?
posted by Grangousier at 2:09 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 2:09 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
I dunno, when you are talking about CIA employed contractors. Separating them from US service seems like accepting a CIA prefered fiction.
posted by Drinky Die at 2:18 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by Drinky Die at 2:18 AM on January 16, 2016
I know it's alarming when you realize how nutty some in the US are. I can't listen to the GOP candidates without wondeing wtf is wrong with people. Same with reading this article--how are there so many who think this way. There are enough of these fascists to cause serious problems at the state and local level. There are enough to seriously gum up the national politics. But there aren't enough of them to deliver the White House for the GOP. And soon there won't be enough of them to deliver the Senate, and then the House. The good guys are winning. It's excruciatingly slow at times, but we are.
posted by persona au gratin at 3:23 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by persona au gratin at 3:23 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
there aren't enough of them to deliver the White House for the GOP
There actually is enough of them. The Democratic demographic advantage is not all it's cracked up to be.
posted by Drinky Die at 3:40 AM on January 16, 2016
There actually is enough of them. The Democratic demographic advantage is not all it's cracked up to be.
posted by Drinky Die at 3:40 AM on January 16, 2016
That article hinges on part on college age Hispanics swinging Republican. That might be plausible if they listened to the RNC self assessment after 2012, but now? After the shit Trump has said? Are you fucking kidding me?
It also attributes a shift in seniors due to policy choices. That's also nonsense. Any shift in seniors is due almost entirely to reliable democratic voters dying, and younger more conservative voters aging into the demographic. There's a cohort of folk who actually remember the New Deal and what it did, they're all dying.
The article is contrarian garbage for page views.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:35 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
It also attributes a shift in seniors due to policy choices. That's also nonsense. Any shift in seniors is due almost entirely to reliable democratic voters dying, and younger more conservative voters aging into the demographic. There's a cohort of folk who actually remember the New Deal and what it did, they're all dying.
The article is contrarian garbage for page views.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:35 AM on January 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
That article hinges on part on college age Hispanics swinging Republican. That might be plausible if they listened to the RNC self assessment after 2012, but now? After the shit Trump has said? Are you fucking kidding me?
No, I'm not. Republicans being anti-Mexican is not even close to new and yet Wendy Davis could not turn out Latinos and only got a bit over half their vote.
I know, it sounds absurd, but it is what is is.
Any shift in seniors is due almost entirely to reliable democratic voters dying, and younger more conservative voters aging into the demographic.
Liberals lose out because the voters aren't old enough? Well, if you say so.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:55 AM on January 16, 2016
No, I'm not. Republicans being anti-Mexican is not even close to new and yet Wendy Davis could not turn out Latinos and only got a bit over half their vote.
I know, it sounds absurd, but it is what is is.
Any shift in seniors is due almost entirely to reliable democratic voters dying, and younger more conservative voters aging into the demographic.
Liberals lose out because the voters aren't old enough? Well, if you say so.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:55 AM on January 16, 2016
Liberals lose out because the voters aren't old enough? Well, if you say so.
It's not me that says so. It's Pew Research and the Columbia Statistics Department.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's not me that says so. It's Pew Research and the Columbia Statistics Department.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh, and aren't "military contractors" essentially mercenaries?
There are a lot of "contractors" that provide various essential services for the military and other government branches (e.g. google "LOGCAP" or "logistics civilian augmentation program").
Usually what people mean when referring to "contractors" in this context is former military or law enforcement staff (often former special operations such as SEAL, Delta, Recon Marine, etc) who are working as part of a private security detail for State, CIA, or other government agency.
Not precisely "mercenary" because they are still working for the US government - they aren't hiring out their services to the Rwandans or the Filipinos. But they are definitely civilians, not military.
posted by theorique at 7:01 AM on January 16, 2016
There are a lot of "contractors" that provide various essential services for the military and other government branches (e.g. google "LOGCAP" or "logistics civilian augmentation program").
Usually what people mean when referring to "contractors" in this context is former military or law enforcement staff (often former special operations such as SEAL, Delta, Recon Marine, etc) who are working as part of a private security detail for State, CIA, or other government agency.
Not precisely "mercenary" because they are still working for the US government - they aren't hiring out their services to the Rwandans or the Filipinos. But they are definitely civilians, not military.
posted by theorique at 7:01 AM on January 16, 2016
Poor Chris Stevens. That is a man who should be celebrated, and from what I've read this film really doesn't. Maybe because he liked brown people too much.
posted by angrycat at 7:06 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by angrycat at 7:06 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Gee, I wonder when it will be released on disc and streaming? Maybe October/November?
Fuck everyone involved with this project forever.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:19 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Fuck everyone involved with this project forever.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:19 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes, it's propagandish.
So, what do a bunch of educated people _do_ to try to counter it?
posted by amtho at 7:38 AM on January 16, 2016
So, what do a bunch of educated people _do_ to try to counter it?
posted by amtho at 7:38 AM on January 16, 2016
Has anyone commenting in this thread actually seen the movie?
posted by hippybear at 8:00 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by hippybear at 8:00 AM on January 16, 2016
I think we are all relying on summaries, track record and our predictive here. TBH I would not really expect a surprise masterpeice.
posted by Artw at 8:08 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by Artw at 8:08 AM on January 16, 2016
Bay's got a very distinctive style, if you've seen any of his other films it's pretty easy to predict what it would be like.
posted by octothorpe at 8:18 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 8:18 AM on January 16, 2016
Or maybe the backstory on how Reagan and the CIA created Osama Bin Laden and spread Islamic radicalism throughout the Islamic world, leading to the death of well over 100,000 civilians worldwide from terrorism?
i'm no fan of reagan but this is a ridiculously wild distortion
posted by p3on at 8:21 AM on January 16, 2016
i'm no fan of reagan but this is a ridiculously wild distortion
posted by p3on at 8:21 AM on January 16, 2016
IIRC it was actually Carter.
what the fuck are you talking about?
posted by p3on at 8:26 AM on January 16, 2016
what the fuck are you talking about?
posted by p3on at 8:26 AM on January 16, 2016
islamic radicalism is an ideological movement that sprung out of the arab world. sayyid qutb, an egyptian, laid the foundational texts in the 1950s and 60s, and a small handful of disaffected youths of the following generation, including ayman al-zawahiri and osama bin laden, picked up the mantle, and joined the insurgency opposing the soviets in afghanistan in the 1980s. the US aided the indigenous resistance movements in afghanistan, elements of which would later establish the taliban, but did not work with the arab fighters who would return upon the soviets' defeat with an unearned claim to it. in the background during all of this was the saudi regime's funding of fundamentalist madrasas across the muslim world, which would spread islamist ideology that lent itself to radicalism. the US is not responsible for the rise of salafism, it is squarely on the shoulders of the arab world.
posted by p3on at 8:37 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by p3on at 8:37 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
In times like these, I often fantasize about implementing some kind of cognitive firewall on the American public.
posted by Eikonaut at 8:38 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by Eikonaut at 8:38 AM on January 16, 2016
Slate: Reagan's Osama Connection.
The tl;dr is that it's pretty darn "what-iffy", but one consequence of Reagan's support for the Afghan mujahideen was that Osama gained a lot of cred after he survived a particularly nasty battle with the Soviets. It was, arguably, the first real step towards eventually becoming, y'know, Osama Bin Laden.
Carter may have started the support for the Afghan rebels, but Reagan definitely ramped it way the fuck up, and (as per the article) kept it going even after Gorbachev had made it clear that the Soviets wanted out.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:38 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The tl;dr is that it's pretty darn "what-iffy", but one consequence of Reagan's support for the Afghan mujahideen was that Osama gained a lot of cred after he survived a particularly nasty battle with the Soviets. It was, arguably, the first real step towards eventually becoming, y'know, Osama Bin Laden.
Carter may have started the support for the Afghan rebels, but Reagan definitely ramped it way the fuck up, and (as per the article) kept it going even after Gorbachev had made it clear that the Soviets wanted out.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:38 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, never mind, I see your wall of text, let's not bother having this conversation.
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by Artw at 8:42 AM on January 16, 2016
Oh, never mind, I see your wall of text, let's not bother having this conversation.
afghans aren't exactly the core contingent of international terrorism my man, and five sentences is a pretty modest wall of text
posted by p3on at 8:46 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
afghans aren't exactly the core contingent of international terrorism my man, and five sentences is a pretty modest wall of text
posted by p3on at 8:46 AM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Benghazi is the equivalent of a little blue pill for those more comfortable with radio, than print media, or even, the web. It is definitely the cheapest instrument of mass propaganda ever, as the American public has been forced to pay for it, due to the stridency of party politics, set on fire by oil and weapons interests.
posted by Oyéah at 9:06 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by Oyéah at 9:06 AM on January 16, 2016
Trying to disentangle the actions of the west from the rise of violent extremism in the Middle East is like trying to unscramble an egg.
posted by maxsparber at 9:07 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 9:07 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted. p3on, Artw, stop going after each other, your points have been made
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:07 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:07 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
All movies are political? Even the Spongebob Squarepants movie?
posted by Splunge at 9:13 AM on January 16, 2016
posted by Splunge at 9:13 AM on January 16, 2016
Especially Spongebob.
posted by maxsparber at 9:26 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 9:26 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
The far right kooks hate Spongebob, ostensibly because it's gay or Marxist or whatever (seriously, google it, there's TONNES of screeds to that effect), but really probably just because it's popular with kids and that scares the bejeezus out of control-freak parents who don't like their kids being exposed to anything ever. I wouldn't say Spongebob is political per se, but career trolls whose job it is to yell "YOUR CHILDREN ARE BEING INDOCTRINATED" for a paycheque can grind their axes on absolutely anything, yes.
posted by Sys Rq at 9:32 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 9:32 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
BIG SAMS' coffee table book of brokered history and oil fired dreams.
goddam. clav is in the zone!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:05 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
goddam. clav is in the zone!
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:05 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think the idea is more that calling a movie political or apolitical isn't really useful, as ideology and politics permeate everything.
For example, GamerGate used "Get politics out of video games!" as a dog-whistle to complain about games that included gay and female characters that didn't fit the few stereotypes they were comfortable with, as well as independent games that received positive press. Of course, that gets dumb when you realize a lot of big games are political in other ways. Call of Duty depicts war in the Middle East, an incredibly political subject. Bioshock is Ayn Rand fanfiction. And pretty much every first person shooter has implicit messages about when violence is okay, albeit just in the context of the game's fiction.
Complaining about politics in media is overly broad and a distraction. Complain about the messages you disagree with specifically. Otherwise, you're actually saying "I only want my politics in media."
posted by mccarty.tim at 10:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
For example, GamerGate used "Get politics out of video games!" as a dog-whistle to complain about games that included gay and female characters that didn't fit the few stereotypes they were comfortable with, as well as independent games that received positive press. Of course, that gets dumb when you realize a lot of big games are political in other ways. Call of Duty depicts war in the Middle East, an incredibly political subject. Bioshock is Ayn Rand fanfiction. And pretty much every first person shooter has implicit messages about when violence is okay, albeit just in the context of the game's fiction.
Complaining about politics in media is overly broad and a distraction. Complain about the messages you disagree with specifically. Otherwise, you're actually saying "I only want my politics in media."
posted by mccarty.tim at 10:12 AM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
For reasons unknown to me, I spent a good part of my morning arguing with a Benghazi truther on Facebook. I ended up looking up the risk estimate distances for Hellfire missiles and reading all the investigation summaries. I put a lot of work into learning about what happened. Yet the man I was arguing with just kept bringing up stuff from the movie. He clearly thought that it was a documentary.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 10:21 AM on January 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by A Bad Catholic at 10:21 AM on January 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
This movie will have as much impact on the 2016 election as Fahrenheit 9/11 did on the 2004 election: none. They're preaching to the choir. Everyone who's angry about Benghazi is already angry and they wouldn't be voting for Clinton anyway.
I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, they had great branding.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:47 AM on January 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
At least Leni Riefenstahl was more subtle, with a better eye for cinematography and strong imagery.
I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, they had great branding.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:47 AM on January 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm a little more worried about people in my generation getting out to vote for "the good guys" (whoever that may be), although they're all pretty jaded, and the ones voting for "the bad guys" already believe the Benghazi narrative the right is spinning. It's a weird setup because the "left" is too tired to argue about Benghazi because we've all read the articles and reports and know what they say, whereas the other segment of our generation is lapping it up heavily and posting about it nonstop. It's weird to see 27-year-olds talk about Hillary's secret emails about Benghazi and other 27-year-olds not post anything about it.
posted by gucci mane at 10:55 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 10:55 AM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
"Our embassy is under attack. Quick, let's hit it with a Hellfire missile!"
One thing you can rarely get the Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck fans to accede to are realistic expectations of American military power, range and readiness. There are those who believe we could clean out Islam from the region in weeks if we had Real Leadership, that when action is needed the only national sovereignty that matters is ours, and that Obama could have mobilized shock troops, Delta Force, bombers, SWAT teams, Wolverine and Green Lantern in minutes to rescue Our Boys but simply wrote them off instead as acceptable losses.
Which sounds great to the ears of the 27% in sound bites, but betrays the real tragedies of this incident. That America can spend decades meddling in regional politics, toppling leaders and waging military campaigns and still underestimate potential fallout. That bureaucracy and miscommunication and interagency disconnects are allowed to cost lives. That what makes this attack worthy of hyperexhaustive investigation, but not many similar attacks on embassies and consulates in previous years, are the political affiliations and the potential usefulness of Benghazi as a weapon against Hillary Clinton.
But they probably couldn't have gotten the Transformers director to film _that_ movie.
posted by delfin at 11:16 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
One thing you can rarely get the Limbaugh/Hannity/Beck fans to accede to are realistic expectations of American military power, range and readiness. There are those who believe we could clean out Islam from the region in weeks if we had Real Leadership, that when action is needed the only national sovereignty that matters is ours, and that Obama could have mobilized shock troops, Delta Force, bombers, SWAT teams, Wolverine and Green Lantern in minutes to rescue Our Boys but simply wrote them off instead as acceptable losses.
Which sounds great to the ears of the 27% in sound bites, but betrays the real tragedies of this incident. That America can spend decades meddling in regional politics, toppling leaders and waging military campaigns and still underestimate potential fallout. That bureaucracy and miscommunication and interagency disconnects are allowed to cost lives. That what makes this attack worthy of hyperexhaustive investigation, but not many similar attacks on embassies and consulates in previous years, are the political affiliations and the potential usefulness of Benghazi as a weapon against Hillary Clinton.
But they probably couldn't have gotten the Transformers director to film _that_ movie.
posted by delfin at 11:16 AM on January 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
I am just going to assume that Krasinski did this for the paycheck and is doing the publicity as part of the contract. I am just going to assume that. He was passionate about his involvement in the anti-fracking movie he did with Matt Damon and that's not exactly a Republican thing to do. I am just going to assume that.
posted by Ber at 11:39 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 11:39 AM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sean Smith was a friend and colleague of mine and speaking as someone who talked with his grieving widow the night of his death, Michael Bay can eat a big bag of (exploding) dicks.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:57 AM on January 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 11:57 AM on January 16, 2016 [33 favorites]
Did you know him from Eve or SA?
posted by Talez at 12:12 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Talez at 12:12 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I read this entire thread and have no idea of the title of this film... and I'm going to attempt to keep it that way.
posted by infinitewindow at 12:33 PM on January 16, 2016
posted by infinitewindow at 12:33 PM on January 16, 2016
I really really doubt this movie's going to have an effect on the election, despite some of the hand-wringing in this thread. If it opened at #1 this weekend there might be an argument to be made, but everyone's watching Star Wars and Ride Along 2.
This is a movie made on the cheap ($50 mil budget, which is small for Bay), and it's being marketed to a very specific audience. In my mind it's kind of like those Christian movies that get wide releases but most of the public has never heard of. It's not for most people, and most people aren't going to care.
posted by mokin at 12:50 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is a movie made on the cheap ($50 mil budget, which is small for Bay), and it's being marketed to a very specific audience. In my mind it's kind of like those Christian movies that get wide releases but most of the public has never heard of. It's not for most people, and most people aren't going to care.
posted by mokin at 12:50 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was arguing with one of my HS friends on FB. This is what he knows is true.
-Obama is a communist Muslim plant who enacted the ACA to bankrupt patriotic Americans so ISIS can just stroll right in and take over America.
-The U.S. no longer has the largest economy in the world. Japan's (!) is 3 times larger than the U.S. ( Thanks Obama!)
- That photo shopped picture of HRC with Bin Laden is NOT shopped.
He and his ilk will eat this movie up. Their only complaint will be it doesn't show HRC cackling with glee as she declares stand down orders to all the troops in the Mediterranean area while Obama prays to Mecca or something.
posted by Max Power at 1:24 PM on January 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
-Obama is a communist Muslim plant who enacted the ACA to bankrupt patriotic Americans so ISIS can just stroll right in and take over America.
-The U.S. no longer has the largest economy in the world. Japan's (!) is 3 times larger than the U.S. ( Thanks Obama!)
- That photo shopped picture of HRC with Bin Laden is NOT shopped.
He and his ilk will eat this movie up. Their only complaint will be it doesn't show HRC cackling with glee as she declares stand down orders to all the troops in the Mediterranean area while Obama prays to Mecca or something.
posted by Max Power at 1:24 PM on January 16, 2016 [9 favorites]
Max, set your computer or phone on fire. It has been tainted by your HS friend and can no longer be trusted.
posted by delfin at 1:33 PM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by delfin at 1:33 PM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
> In my mind it's kind of like those Christian movies that get wide releases but most of the public has never heard of. It's not for most people, and most people aren't going to care.
You don't need "most people" to seriously screw up a well-running society.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:35 PM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
You don't need "most people" to seriously screw up a well-running society.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:35 PM on January 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I admire anybody who tries to reasonably engage with people so inclined. My MO would be to try to find the right combination of words that would drive them insane.
posted by angrycat at 2:39 PM on January 16, 2016
posted by angrycat at 2:39 PM on January 16, 2016
Facebook has a handy "unfollow" feature that lets you mute someone without having to piss them off by unfriending them.
posted by octothorpe at 2:43 PM on January 16, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 2:43 PM on January 16, 2016
Sean Smith was a friend and colleague of mine and speaking as someone who talked with his grieving widow the night of his death, Michael Bay can eat a big bag of (exploding) dicks
This was my thought on seeing the revolting trailer. I don't think he was Mefi's own (not checking) but he might as well have been, it sounds like. Somehow the repulsiveness of this movie feels extra personal because of that.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:15 PM on January 16, 2016
This was my thought on seeing the revolting trailer. I don't think he was Mefi's own (not checking) but he might as well have been, it sounds like. Somehow the repulsiveness of this movie feels extra personal because of that.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:15 PM on January 16, 2016
I read this entire thread and have no idea of the title of this film...
THE RIDICULOUS SIX.
posted by Artw at 3:24 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
THE RIDICULOUS SIX.
posted by Artw at 3:24 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The Money Pit
posted by Drinky Die at 3:29 PM on January 16, 2016
posted by Drinky Die at 3:29 PM on January 16, 2016
The name of the movie is 13 Days. Hope that helps.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 3:31 PM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by WhackyparseThis at 3:31 PM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
In related news, 24 is back, just in time for the election.
My prediction is a major plot thread will involve an ambitious State Department official (woman of course) cutting deals with Middle East terrorists. That and the black lead will talk about the importance of waterboarding African Muslims.
posted by happyroach at 3:38 PM on January 16, 2016
My prediction is a major plot thread will involve an ambitious State Department official (woman of course) cutting deals with Middle East terrorists. That and the black lead will talk about the importance of waterboarding African Muslims.
posted by happyroach at 3:38 PM on January 16, 2016
The movie is "Pink Flamingos." Ted Cruz makes an uncredited cameo -- listen for Surfin' Bird.
posted by delfin at 3:51 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by delfin at 3:51 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Just saw the trailer. It aligns reasonably well with the picture painted by the book.
One of the things I observed about the book was that it was extremely "boots on the ground" level. Tactical-scale, not strategic. It doesn't go into a lot of the geopolitical context, and certainly doesn't speculate about the actions of politicians.
From the foreword:
Unfortunately, because of the actions of political opportunists and conspiracy theorists, the bravery under fire and heroism of these American men is occluded by all the drama and controversy about what the President and/or the Secretary of State may or may not have done. Which is a shame.
posted by theorique at 6:52 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
One of the things I observed about the book was that it was extremely "boots on the ground" level. Tactical-scale, not strategic. It doesn't go into a lot of the geopolitical context, and certainly doesn't speculate about the actions of politicians.
From the foreword:
“It is not about what officials in the United States government knew, said, or did after the attack, or about the ongoing controversy over talking points, electoral politics, and alleged conspiracies and cover-ups. It is not about what happened in hearing rooms of the Capitol, anterooms of the White House, meeting rooms of the State Department, or green rooms of TV talk shows. It is about what happened on the ground, in the streets, and on the rooftops of Benghazi, when bullets flew, buildings burned, and mortars rained. When lives were saved, lost, and forever changed.”(Mitchell Zuckoff. “13 Hours: The Inside Account of What Really Happened in Benghazi.”)
Unfortunately, because of the actions of political opportunists and conspiracy theorists, the bravery under fire and heroism of these American men is occluded by all the drama and controversy about what the President and/or the Secretary of State may or may not have done. Which is a shame.
posted by theorique at 6:52 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Did you know him from Eve or SA?
Both. We were both mods and talked a great deal. We had planned to meet up for drinks when he was posted in Montreal but the timing never worked out. I regret that terribly.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:43 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Both. We were both mods and talked a great deal. We had planned to meet up for drinks when he was posted in Montreal but the timing never worked out. I regret that terribly.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 7:43 PM on January 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am your dear old auntie angerbot.
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 8:20 PM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by the uncomplicated soups of my childhood at 8:20 PM on January 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
The More You Know *shooting star and NBC logo*
posted by hippybear at 8:45 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:45 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Thanks to some first-rate action, Michael Bay’s 13 Hours only feels 6 hours long
posted by kirkaracha at 9:24 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:24 PM on January 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
The name of the movie is 13 D
LALALACAN'THEARYOU
posted by infinitewindow at 10:59 PM on January 16, 2016
LALALACAN'THEARYOU
posted by infinitewindow at 10:59 PM on January 16, 2016
I feel that I missed something in the whole Benghazi affair and it doesn't seem to be addressed above.
What exactly was the US doing there to begin with? I presume the ambassador was doing ambassadorial stuff, but apparently there was another group of US government workers? What were they there for?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:37 AM on January 17, 2016
What exactly was the US doing there to begin with? I presume the ambassador was doing ambassadorial stuff, but apparently there was another group of US government workers? What were they there for?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:37 AM on January 17, 2016
The CIA was in Libya for the usual. Undermine the government, try and set up a US friendly one.
posted by Drinky Die at 4:49 AM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 4:49 AM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
When has that ever worked for more than five minutes? I mean, we can basically blame Islsmism on that shit (given that it ratcheted up in U.S.-client Egypt's torture chambers on the one hand and the overthrow of U.S. plant the Shah of Iran on the other). Fuck. The CIA. The half-assed fratboys of espionage.
posted by Grangousier at 9:43 AM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 9:43 AM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
And yet, a tea-partier of my very remote acquaintance condemns it as a liberal whitewash.
posted by SLC Mom at 12:01 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by SLC Mom at 12:01 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Guess what internet forum is deeply unamused by this movie.
How laughably Xhosa of them.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:18 PM on January 17, 2016
How laughably Xhosa of them.
posted by Apocryphon at 2:18 PM on January 17, 2016
Box Office Mojo: Landing in fourth position is another one of the weekend's new wide releases, Michael Bay's 13 Hours, which tallied an estimated $16 million for the three-day weekend with Paramount estimating $19 million for the four-day. This is Bay's first film to gross less than $20 million in its first three days since The Island back in 2005. Budgeted at $50 million, it should push to end up grossing somewhere right around $45-50 million for its domestic run, perhaps lower than the $49.8 million Pain and Gain brought in back in 2013.
posted by octothorpe at 2:30 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 2:30 PM on January 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's okay, raking in the millions wasn't really the point.
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:57 PM on January 17, 2016
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:57 PM on January 17, 2016
Yeah, the point was for people to see it. Which they're not.
posted by mokin at 4:02 PM on January 17, 2016
posted by mokin at 4:02 PM on January 17, 2016
Can't imagine the international numbers are going to big on a thing like that either.
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on January 17, 2016
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on January 17, 2016
What if Michael Bay believes his movie—that Hillary was a villain in the Benghazi affair—and he's using his movie-making skills to bring truth to the people? That's certainly how I'd assess Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911. Can't you guys see that there's every chance that Hillary did fuck up royally as there is for Bush having done some of the crazy things he's accused of around 9/11? Once you know someone's political leaning, you 95% know the conclusions they're going to draw from "looking at the facts" about Benghazi or the Iraq War etc. We want the other side to come to their senses and realize their champion is actually a criminal and a douchebag, but we'll never extend the same courtesy. Humanity will turn this franchise around only when we get better at Prisoner's Dilemma.
posted by king walnut at 4:58 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by king walnut at 4:58 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Whatever. Morons have a big bag of nothing and have failed to make a coherent case for anything, but hey they have a flop film.
posted by Artw at 5:10 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 5:10 PM on January 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
As someone who dislikes Hillary and will not vote for her, trust me that I would say there was a scandal here if I saw any evidence to support that. I have not.
posted by Drinky Die at 5:17 PM on January 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Drinky Die at 5:17 PM on January 17, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah, the point was for people to see it. Which they're not.
It's not about convincing the unconvinced, it's about reinforcing the already-held beliefs and getting the choir fired up.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:19 PM on January 17, 2016
It's not about convincing the unconvinced, it's about reinforcing the already-held beliefs and getting the choir fired up.
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:19 PM on January 17, 2016
By why fire the choir up in January, rather than October?
posted by drezdn at 5:23 PM on January 17, 2016
posted by drezdn at 5:23 PM on January 17, 2016
Can't you guys see that there's every chance that Hillary did fuck up royally as there is for Bush having done some of the crazy things he's accused of around 9/11?
There isn't every chance that Hillary fucked up just as royally. The matter has been extensively investigated. Eight separate congressional committees--mostly if not all led by Republicans--have investigated Benghazi, as opposed to two that investigated the 9/11 attacks. Congress has held at least 21 hearings on Benghazi, compared to 22 for the 9/11 attacks. Clinton testified before Congress for six hours in January 2013. She testified before Congress for 11 hours in October 2015. Bush and Cheney appeared before the 9/11 Commission once, for three hours.
President Bush got a briefing entitled Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S. a month before the attacks and his response was to say, "All right. You've covered your ass, now." And stay on vacation. What warning did Clinton get?
posted by kirkaracha at 5:25 PM on January 17, 2016 [27 favorites]
Also, Clinton testified under oath on TV in October 2015. Bush and Cheney were not under oath and there were no recordings or transcriptions of their private conversation with the 9/11 Commission. ("'He is not testifying, he is talking to them,' the adviser said. 'A transcript implies testimony.'")
posted by kirkaracha at 5:34 PM on January 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 5:34 PM on January 17, 2016 [13 favorites]
We want the other side to come to their senses and realize their champion is actually a criminal and a douchebag, but we'll never extend the same courtesy.
There is zero reason for those of us conversant with reality and facts to extend any courtesy to those whose worldviews are based on pure fantasy and hatred.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:25 PM on January 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
There is zero reason for those of us conversant with reality and facts to extend any courtesy to those whose worldviews are based on pure fantasy and hatred.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:25 PM on January 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Looks like the movie is failing at the box office... except in the South.
posted by markkraft at 1:14 AM on January 18, 2016
posted by markkraft at 1:14 AM on January 18, 2016
By why fire the choir up in January, rather than October?
Because this will be on every cable/satellite companies free streaming service, Netflix, and several of the movie channels by then to watch for free. Sure, people will see it now, but plenty more who wouldn't go out to a theater will see it when they're bored or channel surfing.
I'd expect another big push for this then. The home screen banner on Netflix, the promo box on comcast on demand, etc.
"Just added watch now for free!" Is way easier than get in car, go to theater, pay $12(or double that for your spouse person).
Talk radio is free, and is popular with the audience this seems to be trying to reach. Maybe they realized that was the price point this needed to hit by the right time, "free" with a subscription people are already paying for?
I don't think this movie is about just preaching to the choir either. It's about giving them something to show skeptical or receptive friends who would be, and are 70% of the way to being those people but need a little push.
posted by emptythought at 1:30 AM on January 18, 2016
Because this will be on every cable/satellite companies free streaming service, Netflix, and several of the movie channels by then to watch for free. Sure, people will see it now, but plenty more who wouldn't go out to a theater will see it when they're bored or channel surfing.
I'd expect another big push for this then. The home screen banner on Netflix, the promo box on comcast on demand, etc.
"Just added watch now for free!" Is way easier than get in car, go to theater, pay $12(or double that for your spouse person).
Talk radio is free, and is popular with the audience this seems to be trying to reach. Maybe they realized that was the price point this needed to hit by the right time, "free" with a subscription people are already paying for?
I don't think this movie is about just preaching to the choir either. It's about giving them something to show skeptical or receptive friends who would be, and are 70% of the way to being those people but need a little push.
posted by emptythought at 1:30 AM on January 18, 2016
A surprising thoughtful review from the Washington Post's movie critic: '13 Hours,' Benghazi and the slippery definition of 'political'
posted by peeedro at 5:30 AM on January 18, 2016
posted by peeedro at 5:30 AM on January 18, 2016
It's also about showing a particular version of events which a lot of people will absolutely believe was 100% accurate. They'll "remember" that it happened that way.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:31 AM on January 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:31 AM on January 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
c.f. Black Hawk Down, JFK, United 93, Zero Dark Thirty, Full Metal Jacket, Pearl Harbor, Midway (and a zillion other WWII movies)...
Basically any movie about war that isn't Night Will Fall / Memory Of the Camps. Which actually do show how it happened. Or perhaps Conspiracy, which was based on actual transcripts of the meeting about The Final Solution.
posted by hippybear at 4:24 PM on January 18, 2016
Basically any movie about war that isn't Night Will Fall / Memory Of the Camps. Which actually do show how it happened. Or perhaps Conspiracy, which was based on actual transcripts of the meeting about The Final Solution.
posted by hippybear at 4:24 PM on January 18, 2016
"any movie about war"... er... any movie about historical events.
posted by hippybear at 4:31 PM on January 18, 2016
posted by hippybear at 4:31 PM on January 18, 2016
Stranger shoots woman in showing of ‘13 Hours’ at Renton movie theater
posted by homunculus at 12:19 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by homunculus at 12:19 PM on January 22, 2016
So when they convict this guy, does he permanently lose his gun-having privileges?
posted by indubitable at 3:07 PM on January 22, 2016
posted by indubitable at 3:07 PM on January 22, 2016
That would be harmful to the rights of guns.
posted by Artw at 3:08 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 3:08 PM on January 22, 2016 [1 favorite]
In a statement to police quoted by The Seattle Times, 29-year-old Dane Gallion said he brought a firearm to a screening of Michael Bay’s “13 Hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi” in Renton because he was “concerned about recent mass shootings in public places.” Gallion said in the statement that he wore the gun unholstered in his waistband for the same reason.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on January 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on January 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
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ENGINEERED
NO
GRAVITAS,
ALL
ZERO
INTENTIONALITY
posted by Artw at 3:22 PM on January 15, 2016 [13 favorites]