"One must imagine Sisyphus happy"
April 2, 2016 11:59 AM Subscribe
The latest episode of Anita Sarkeesian's Tropes Vs. Women has dropped, this time focusing on Laura Mulvey's [pdf] concept of the 'male gaze' in video games.
Gender representation in video games has been recognized as a bit of a longstanding issue. James Therien, technical director at Ubisoft, once claimed that this was partially due to the difficulty of animating women in video games.
While women make up almost half of all gamers, they still make up only a minority of people actually employed in the industry itself. Additionally, women in the industry tend to make less than their male colleagues and tend to be overlooked for promotions. Some corporations are trying to do better. And there are plenty of individual women in the industry who are doing their best to make it more egalitarian.
Previouslies, also, also, also, also, etc
Additionally, Dinosaur Comics has a brief summary of the male gaze and and TVTropes has more than a few examples.
Gender representation in video games has been recognized as a bit of a longstanding issue. James Therien, technical director at Ubisoft, once claimed that this was partially due to the difficulty of animating women in video games.
While women make up almost half of all gamers, they still make up only a minority of people actually employed in the industry itself. Additionally, women in the industry tend to make less than their male colleagues and tend to be overlooked for promotions. Some corporations are trying to do better. And there are plenty of individual women in the industry who are doing their best to make it more egalitarian.
Previouslies, also, also, also, also, etc
Additionally, Dinosaur Comics has a brief summary of the male gaze and and TVTropes has more than a few examples.
I always am so fascinated with everything she says in these videos, even though I'm not at all a gamer.
posted by xingcat at 12:45 PM on April 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by xingcat at 12:45 PM on April 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
I'm subscribed to these so I watch them when they come out. I can't tell you how much I look up to her for the precision, care and integrity in each video. And then on top of it the videos are funny, informative and educational. As mentioned in a previous thread, she has described the cost to her sanity that producing these videos takes. So I appreciate that as well.
posted by cashman at 1:01 PM on April 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by cashman at 1:01 PM on April 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
An alternative, non games-focused take on the male gaze is Rantasmo's video.
posted by sukeban at 1:19 PM on April 2, 2016
posted by sukeban at 1:19 PM on April 2, 2016
"men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves."
I've long held a theory that one of the main things about generalized homophobia is straight men suddenly noticing gay men looking at them and imagining running through in their gay minds what they, the straight men, realize they have running through their own minds when they look at women. And (this is sort of deep patriarchy stuff) being disgusted by what they imagine gay men imagine wanting to do to them based on what they imagine wanting to do to women. (That they react with horror about the man wanting to do this to them but don't think through their own desire to do this to women is another matter entirely.)
This, of course, means that the straight man involved has to have become trained in how to recognize the Male Gaze when it is being directed at him. This is not a skill that many straight men have, I have found. And with the ones that do have it, some of them can be pretty frightening if they notice you Gazing at them.
In fact, back in the street cruising, hanky code days of casual anonymous hookups negotiated in public spaces, it was a mutual recognition of the male gaze, mutually directed, that was often the unspoken signal to begin the dance.
I'm not trying to make this discussion about men instead of about women... I just have thought a lot about this topic and how it applies to the man-on-man dynamic. And across decades have found it interesting to observe who noticed me looking at them and who doesn't and if they do notice, how they react. And this is completely different from the power issues and patriarchy matters entangled to when this is a man looking at a woman.
posted by hippybear at 1:19 PM on April 2, 2016 [60 favorites]
I've long held a theory that one of the main things about generalized homophobia is straight men suddenly noticing gay men looking at them and imagining running through in their gay minds what they, the straight men, realize they have running through their own minds when they look at women. And (this is sort of deep patriarchy stuff) being disgusted by what they imagine gay men imagine wanting to do to them based on what they imagine wanting to do to women. (That they react with horror about the man wanting to do this to them but don't think through their own desire to do this to women is another matter entirely.)
This, of course, means that the straight man involved has to have become trained in how to recognize the Male Gaze when it is being directed at him. This is not a skill that many straight men have, I have found. And with the ones that do have it, some of them can be pretty frightening if they notice you Gazing at them.
In fact, back in the street cruising, hanky code days of casual anonymous hookups negotiated in public spaces, it was a mutual recognition of the male gaze, mutually directed, that was often the unspoken signal to begin the dance.
I'm not trying to make this discussion about men instead of about women... I just have thought a lot about this topic and how it applies to the man-on-man dynamic. And across decades have found it interesting to observe who noticed me looking at them and who doesn't and if they do notice, how they react. And this is completely different from the power issues and patriarchy matters entangled to when this is a man looking at a woman.
posted by hippybear at 1:19 PM on April 2, 2016 [60 favorites]
I have been meaning to donate to fund her videos for a while now. The violent reaction of gamergators to her reasonable points only underscores how messed up gender relations are for a large number of young men. Thanks for this post.
posted by benzenedream at 1:21 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by benzenedream at 1:21 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
As with all their videos, this critique is as much about good game making as it is a feminist critique. This video shows how it's not just that so many games have overly sexualized animations for women characters. It's that the sexy animation is a trap because it makes it hard or impossible for the animators to say anything else about the character other than "look at that butt wiggle!". The juxtaposition of interesting varied male animations against the stereotyped homogenous female animation is really damning.
I don't mean to distract from the feminist point of this critique series; it's powerful and necessary. But a recurring theme of Feminist Frequency is that the sexist stuff we get in games is lazy and tedious. It's disappointing how often a game devolves to "look at the hot chick" instead of doing something more interesting.
posted by Nelson at 1:22 PM on April 2, 2016 [54 favorites]
I don't mean to distract from the feminist point of this critique series; it's powerful and necessary. But a recurring theme of Feminist Frequency is that the sexist stuff we get in games is lazy and tedious. It's disappointing how often a game devolves to "look at the hot chick" instead of doing something more interesting.
posted by Nelson at 1:22 PM on April 2, 2016 [54 favorites]
It's disappointing how often a game devolves to "look at the hot chick" instead of doing something more interesting.
I want to favorite this sentence a zillion times.
posted by hippybear at 1:24 PM on April 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
I want to favorite this sentence a zillion times.
posted by hippybear at 1:24 PM on April 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
A video game version of the Hawkeye initiative is Male Hawke modded to walk like Female Hawk from Dragon Age 2. This was mostly remedied in Inquisition.
This is something I'd noticed, but I'd never thought about the fact that a person needs to be wearing heals to get that kind of hip swagger. It makes a lot more sense now (and also make me think about just how many female characters end up wearing useless high heels).
posted by Hactar at 1:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
This is something I'd noticed, but I'd never thought about the fact that a person needs to be wearing heals to get that kind of hip swagger. It makes a lot more sense now (and also make me think about just how many female characters end up wearing useless high heels).
posted by Hactar at 1:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
While women make up almost half of all gamers the entertainment audience, they still make up only a minority of people actually employed in the industry itself.
Of course, it's more so for gaming. But most of the 'respect' the field receives comes from the boatloads of money it makes. And the people in movies/TV/music love the chance to say "yeah, we're pretty awful, but not as bad as the Games Biz."
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:39 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Of course, it's more so for gaming. But most of the 'respect' the field receives comes from the boatloads of money it makes. And the people in movies/TV/music love the chance to say "yeah, we're pretty awful, but not as bad as the Games Biz."
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:39 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Reminds me of the time my cousin got Tomb Raider for Christmas, and my uncles practically commandeered the game from him.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:51 PM on April 2, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 1:51 PM on April 2, 2016
The prof for my computer science class is a woman and a huge gamer, and she is constantly kind of bouncing up and down on her feet with anticipation about the VR stuff that's apparently coming down the pike very soon. But she told us that one thing she's really worried about is that apparently it's not clear that the VR headsets are going to work well for women, because there are physiological differences between men and women, and all the VR stuff is mostly being tested on men. And I'm pretty sad about that, because I was really excited about Google Cardboard, but it turns out that the headset I got doesn't fit me right, and I get dizzy and nauseous after about 30 seconds.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:16 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:16 PM on April 2, 2016 [4 favorites]
" But she told us that one thing she's really worried about is that apparently it's not clear that the VR headsets are going to work well for women, because there are physiological differences between men and women, and all the VR stuff is mostly being tested on men."
Wait, what? All she needs to do is look up youtube videos of people trying it. There are tons of women who use VR headsets.
"And I'm pretty sad about that, because I was really excited about Google Cardboard, but it turns out that the headset I got doesn't fit me right, and I get dizzy and nauseous after about 30 seconds."
VR sickness is a common problem with VR but, yeah, it kicking in in just 30 seconds is weird. Try getting a Mattel Viewmaster 2. They're just 30 bucks, only downside is that they, like most google cardboard headsets, don't strap on to your head. You have to hold them.
posted by I-baLL at 2:22 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wait, what? All she needs to do is look up youtube videos of people trying it. There are tons of women who use VR headsets.
"And I'm pretty sad about that, because I was really excited about Google Cardboard, but it turns out that the headset I got doesn't fit me right, and I get dizzy and nauseous after about 30 seconds."
VR sickness is a common problem with VR but, yeah, it kicking in in just 30 seconds is weird. Try getting a Mattel Viewmaster 2. They're just 30 bucks, only downside is that they, like most google cardboard headsets, don't strap on to your head. You have to hold them.
posted by I-baLL at 2:22 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's always good to see that Anita Sarkeesian's still at it. She's got a strength and resilience that anybody should envy.
It's amazing how many issues like this are permutations of "men are subjects, women are objects."
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:25 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
It's amazing how many issues like this are permutations of "men are subjects, women are objects."
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:25 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]
No, this is apparently a thing.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:28 PM on April 2, 2016 [37 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:28 PM on April 2, 2016 [37 favorites]
I have a rather sad aside to share. A few weeks ago I mentioned to some of my staff (many of which are enthusiastic gamers) that I enjoy the Feminist Frequency critiques and that its refreshing to read criticism that looks at gender, diversity, bigotry, sexuality, etc in a nuanced way. And the response I received was surprising to me.
I was under the assumption that my staff was a bit more enlightened than they apparently are: "She just cherry picks from video-games to prove her point. It's a bunch of bullshit." "She's not even a real gamer."
There were at least three different people on my staff who made similar comments and their dislike of her was so intense that I had to tell them to calm down (one person in particular had raised his voice), I mentioned that we're just talking about video-games and that everyone is allowed to have their own point of view. It was very depressing to learn that, a few people I work with and who up until now I respected quite a bit, fall into this kind of "gamergate" thinking state of mind.
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 2:39 PM on April 2, 2016 [31 favorites]
I was under the assumption that my staff was a bit more enlightened than they apparently are: "She just cherry picks from video-games to prove her point. It's a bunch of bullshit." "She's not even a real gamer."
There were at least three different people on my staff who made similar comments and their dislike of her was so intense that I had to tell them to calm down (one person in particular had raised his voice), I mentioned that we're just talking about video-games and that everyone is allowed to have their own point of view. It was very depressing to learn that, a few people I work with and who up until now I respected quite a bit, fall into this kind of "gamergate" thinking state of mind.
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 2:39 PM on April 2, 2016 [31 favorites]
That article talks about 1997 technology. And virtual reality sickness isn't just a problem for women but for both sexes (women are more affected by it though). It's been a large hindrance to VR adoption in the 90s and now we seem to be on the verge of making not be present. That article doesn't present any info on the Oculus and seems to just be asking the question of " In other words, are systems like Oculus fundamentally (if inadvertently) sexist in their design?" which is a weird question since VR sickness has been an issue that Oculus has been trying to address from the beginning.
posted by I-baLL at 2:43 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by I-baLL at 2:43 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
danb: "Related: Feminist Frequency is trying to crowdfund a new video series, "Ordinary Women," on a platform called Seed & Spark."
uuuuuh, Thanks for the headsup, danb! I'd throw myself in front of the King's horse for a video series like that!
posted by bigendian at 2:44 PM on April 2, 2016
uuuuuh, Thanks for the headsup, danb! I'd throw myself in front of the King's horse for a video series like that!
posted by bigendian at 2:44 PM on April 2, 2016
> Wait, what? All she needs to do is look up youtube videos of people trying it. There are tons of women who use VR headsets.
Those are demonstrative advertisements, typically not lasting more than a few minutes. They are not the same as actual testing of the product.
> VR sickness is a common problem with VR but, yeah, it kicking in in just 30 seconds is weird. Try getting a Mattel Viewmaster 2.
Not for women. While men do get some VR sickness, women are significantly more susceptible to it. Also, Asians are more prone to it than any other ethnic group, and Asian women are more susceptible to it than Caucasian and African American women. The exact causes are unclear, but it is a problem. It's not something that should be dismissed with snide remarks. Not unless it's your goal to exclude certain segments of the population from using this technology.
posted by timd at 2:47 PM on April 2, 2016 [38 favorites]
Those are demonstrative advertisements, typically not lasting more than a few minutes. They are not the same as actual testing of the product.
> VR sickness is a common problem with VR but, yeah, it kicking in in just 30 seconds is weird. Try getting a Mattel Viewmaster 2.
Not for women. While men do get some VR sickness, women are significantly more susceptible to it. Also, Asians are more prone to it than any other ethnic group, and Asian women are more susceptible to it than Caucasian and African American women. The exact causes are unclear, but it is a problem. It's not something that should be dismissed with snide remarks. Not unless it's your goal to exclude certain segments of the population from using this technology.
posted by timd at 2:47 PM on April 2, 2016 [38 favorites]
Here's an article from 2014 talking about motion sickness. And men don't get "some VR sickness". We get a lot of it too. And I wasn't talking about demonstrative advertisement videos. I was talking about the tens of thousands of people, both men and women, who own the Oculus Rift DK1 or DK2 or the Google Cardboard or the OSVR headsets. It's a huge amount of people out there. And I don't really see where I made any snide remarks. I just pointed out that there are tons of women using VR headsets these days.
posted by I-baLL at 2:52 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by I-baLL at 2:52 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
When they say the stat of women being half of gamers, what is the definition of gamer? Are they saying that women are nearly half of console gamers, or are they including my mom that sometimes plays Candy Crush on her iPad? I always feel like I'm in a minority on consoles, I've never felt like there were equal boys and girls.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 3:14 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Hazelsmrf at 3:14 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
And I don't really see where I made any snide remarks. I just pointed out that there are tons of women using VR headsets these days.
Yes, we're aware of that. And while that's nice for the women who don't puke on their shoes whilst using an Occulus Rift, the rest of us who do puke are a statistically significant group of people. This is a problem that occurs for women more than for men, and saying "but there are still lots or women who use VR!" sort of wilfully, stubbornly fails to acknowledge that there is a problem and it is gender based.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:42 PM on April 2, 2016 [28 favorites]
Yes, we're aware of that. And while that's nice for the women who don't puke on their shoes whilst using an Occulus Rift, the rest of us who do puke are a statistically significant group of people. This is a problem that occurs for women more than for men, and saying "but there are still lots or women who use VR!" sort of wilfully, stubbornly fails to acknowledge that there is a problem and it is gender based.
posted by DarlingBri at 3:42 PM on April 2, 2016 [28 favorites]
I have never, ever understood why these videos generate the foaming frothing rage they do. The worst thing one can say about them is that they tend to keep to the shallow end of theory, which makes sense for a series that was billed as a kind of 101-level overview.
Like even the most random people have freakouts. I used to love a video series on YouTube by a guy called Captain Disillusion in which he broke down and debunked fake paranormal/incredible stunt videos that most other venues just kind of pointed to and said "Gee whiz!" Like to the degree of identifying the specific stock effect animation used, sometimes. They were great.
And then the last video, he made a joke about useless/crazy people on social media feeds, and included images of the Fine Brothers (of "X Reacts!" fame), a couple of ranting (probably actually mentally ill) people, and... Anita Sarkeesian. And when I commented to express my dismay, I got a shouting rant casting me out of the skeptic fanbase forever from Captain Disillusion himself for being divisive and destructive.
The guy who a little bit lower in the comment thread said that he'd enjoyed "seeing Anita Sarkeesian finally flushed down a tube like she belongs" was apparently fine.
(I'm *still* getting e-mails from the gamergators in the comment thread replying to insult me for being fat. One of them followed me to Twitter and tried to get me to read his insulting limericks he wrote about me.)
posted by Scattercat at 3:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [24 favorites]
Like even the most random people have freakouts. I used to love a video series on YouTube by a guy called Captain Disillusion in which he broke down and debunked fake paranormal/incredible stunt videos that most other venues just kind of pointed to and said "Gee whiz!" Like to the degree of identifying the specific stock effect animation used, sometimes. They were great.
And then the last video, he made a joke about useless/crazy people on social media feeds, and included images of the Fine Brothers (of "X Reacts!" fame), a couple of ranting (probably actually mentally ill) people, and... Anita Sarkeesian. And when I commented to express my dismay, I got a shouting rant casting me out of the skeptic fanbase forever from Captain Disillusion himself for being divisive and destructive.
The guy who a little bit lower in the comment thread said that he'd enjoyed "seeing Anita Sarkeesian finally flushed down a tube like she belongs" was apparently fine.
(I'm *still* getting e-mails from the gamergators in the comment thread replying to insult me for being fat. One of them followed me to Twitter and tried to get me to read his insulting limericks he wrote about me.)
posted by Scattercat at 3:51 PM on April 2, 2016 [24 favorites]
I have never, ever understood why these videos generate the foaming frothing rage they do.
And that's what happened in the office when I mentioned my appreciating her for the work she does for both criticism as well as gaming. So much under the surface ready to be released rage and hatred. It's sad and also frightening.
posted by Fizz at 3:57 PM on April 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
And that's what happened in the office when I mentioned my appreciating her for the work she does for both criticism as well as gaming. So much under the surface ready to be released rage and hatred. It's sad and also frightening.
posted by Fizz at 3:57 PM on April 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
That was really interesting, and resonated with me a lot. I especially liked her comments about how the camera enforces male gaze. I remember playing Mass Effect 2 some years ago and getting really frustrated with the way that the game set Miranda up in a hyper-sexualised way, and then compounded the problem by forcing Shepard to stare at her arse for no reason. It's gross and game-breaking. I was trying to play Shepard as a grumpy 50-something bisexual woman. It's not inconceivable that she would find Miranda attractive, but I had always thought of Shepard as a consummate military professional: Miranda was both a subordinate to Shepard and served as the voice of a terrorist organisation that Shepard had no reason to trust. It made no sense at all for Shepard to be ogling Miranda, but the game required her (or him) to do so. The overwhelming childishness of the camera didn't just break Miranda as a character, it broke Shepard too. The whole thing is annoying and creepy, and I wish game designers would cut that shit out. It's awful at every possible level.
posted by langtonsant at 4:01 PM on April 2, 2016 [26 favorites]
posted by langtonsant at 4:01 PM on April 2, 2016 [26 favorites]
I talked to a guy recently at work who explained that video games are his whole life, and they're who and what he is. That's the kind of person gamergate attracts- somebody who so thoroughly identifies with the video game industry that any sort of criticism of a game (that hits games he identifies with, of course- games which don't speak directly to this sort of individual look like an intrusion at best) looks like a personal attack on his identity.
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:21 PM on April 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 4:21 PM on April 2, 2016 [8 favorites]
How much is it up to the game developer to change the culture vs the audience? If games with a female main character sell less than games with a male main character, is it wrong for a company to cater to the most profitable segment?
I'll just throw it out there that I identify closer to GG than not. My husband does work at a large game company, and I've identified as a gamer for a long time. I do not mind criticism of a game, but I also do not like censorship of the medium. I think dollars are the votes there, if there is no market for a type of game then that game will do poorly.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 4:27 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'll just throw it out there that I identify closer to GG than not. My husband does work at a large game company, and I've identified as a gamer for a long time. I do not mind criticism of a game, but I also do not like censorship of the medium. I think dollars are the votes there, if there is no market for a type of game then that game will do poorly.
posted by Hazelsmrf at 4:27 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
Because the medium is the message and the question is the answer. The choices you don't make and the things you don't say are just as significant as the actions you take. If people don't think critically about how they speak and what they say, that can lead to skewed or undesirable outcomes, and just because something IS doesn't mean it HAS to be.
Also, fuck right off with any comment about censorship. That's nonsense. No one has ever said no one is permitted to do gross things. People are complaining about the gross things that are being done and saying we should consider trying collectively to improve our habits. Basically this comic, forever and done.
posted by Scattercat at 4:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [50 favorites]
Also, fuck right off with any comment about censorship. That's nonsense. No one has ever said no one is permitted to do gross things. People are complaining about the gross things that are being done and saying we should consider trying collectively to improve our habits. Basically this comic, forever and done.
posted by Scattercat at 4:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [50 favorites]
VR sickness is a common problem with VR but, yeah, it kicking in in just 30 seconds is weird. Try getting a Mattel Viewmaster 2.
Not for women. While men do get some VR sickness, women are significantly more susceptible to it. Also, Asians are more prone to it than any other ethnic group, and Asian women are more susceptible to it than Caucasian and African American women. The exact causes are unclear, but it is a problem. It's not something that should be dismissed with snide remarks. Not unless it's your goal to exclude certain segments of the population from using this technology.
Okay so a few things. I'm sidestepping the gender difference.
Simulation sickness is immensely common. There are a bunch of theories on cause, but let's talk through what actually makes people sick with the current round of headsets.
3dof vs. 6dof
Cardboard, Gearvr, Viewmaster, Oculus DK1 and a few others are all 3dof devices. They show rotation, but no translation. You can turn your head, but if you move your head side to, no motion. This causes a conflict between what you see and you vestibular system. Personally i find it hugely unpleasant.
Vection
This one is a doozy. Vection is the concept that your visual system perceives motion purely from imagery. Basically, it looks like your moving, but your inner ear doesn't feel movement. This one suuuuucks, and makes me feel the worst overall. It's a big problem with a lot of vr content, particularly if it's ported from a non-vr experience.
Motion to Photon
This is sort of a corollary to the other 2. Basically, if you turn your head, and it takes too long to update the visual representation in the headset, you suddenly have a visual/vestibular conflict. This was the classic problem with most of the earlier headsets. PSVR @ 60fps (16ms per frame) makes me uncomfortable. The rift/vive are 90fps (11ms), and there's a high speed psvr mode @120fps.
It's kinda funky, because it's more than just framerate. It's when you sample the headset position. For example, if you check check the headset position at the beginning of a 90fps frame, you end up with data that is a minimum of 11ms out of sync (assuming there's no time to send the image to the screen and refresh). Even that can suck for viewers. Async Timewarp, late latching, and a few other methods can be used to grab headset position either very late in a frame, or multiple times.
Anyhoo, these are a few causes of simulation sickness. The effects and sensitivity definitely vary by male/female, ethnicity, age, etc. Hell, if you're sitting on the wrong height chair and go into a game, you can make yourself sick.
posted by Lord_Pall at 4:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
Not for women. While men do get some VR sickness, women are significantly more susceptible to it. Also, Asians are more prone to it than any other ethnic group, and Asian women are more susceptible to it than Caucasian and African American women. The exact causes are unclear, but it is a problem. It's not something that should be dismissed with snide remarks. Not unless it's your goal to exclude certain segments of the population from using this technology.
Okay so a few things. I'm sidestepping the gender difference.
Simulation sickness is immensely common. There are a bunch of theories on cause, but let's talk through what actually makes people sick with the current round of headsets.
3dof vs. 6dof
Cardboard, Gearvr, Viewmaster, Oculus DK1 and a few others are all 3dof devices. They show rotation, but no translation. You can turn your head, but if you move your head side to, no motion. This causes a conflict between what you see and you vestibular system. Personally i find it hugely unpleasant.
Vection
This one is a doozy. Vection is the concept that your visual system perceives motion purely from imagery. Basically, it looks like your moving, but your inner ear doesn't feel movement. This one suuuuucks, and makes me feel the worst overall. It's a big problem with a lot of vr content, particularly if it's ported from a non-vr experience.
Motion to Photon
This is sort of a corollary to the other 2. Basically, if you turn your head, and it takes too long to update the visual representation in the headset, you suddenly have a visual/vestibular conflict. This was the classic problem with most of the earlier headsets. PSVR @ 60fps (16ms per frame) makes me uncomfortable. The rift/vive are 90fps (11ms), and there's a high speed psvr mode @120fps.
It's kinda funky, because it's more than just framerate. It's when you sample the headset position. For example, if you check check the headset position at the beginning of a 90fps frame, you end up with data that is a minimum of 11ms out of sync (assuming there's no time to send the image to the screen and refresh). Even that can suck for viewers. Async Timewarp, late latching, and a few other methods can be used to grab headset position either very late in a frame, or multiple times.
Anyhoo, these are a few causes of simulation sickness. The effects and sensitivity definitely vary by male/female, ethnicity, age, etc. Hell, if you're sitting on the wrong height chair and go into a game, you can make yourself sick.
posted by Lord_Pall at 4:31 PM on April 2, 2016 [17 favorites]
I think dollars are the votes there, if there is no market for a type of game then that game will do poorly.
But this then turns into a sick cycle where the only games that are being made are the ones that no longer target the disenfranchised (women, LGBTQ, visible minorities, etc). So how are they to "vote with their dollars" if there are no games to vote for. They're completely removed from the equation and so you only have one particular group of gamers/developers who are determining how the industry functions. They are the target and so those are the only games that continue to keep on being made, in the same exclusionary/divisive way. Nothing ever evolves or is improved upon.
posted by Fizz at 4:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [29 favorites]
But this then turns into a sick cycle where the only games that are being made are the ones that no longer target the disenfranchised (women, LGBTQ, visible minorities, etc). So how are they to "vote with their dollars" if there are no games to vote for. They're completely removed from the equation and so you only have one particular group of gamers/developers who are determining how the industry functions. They are the target and so those are the only games that continue to keep on being made, in the same exclusionary/divisive way. Nothing ever evolves or is improved upon.
posted by Fizz at 4:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [29 favorites]
Irritation aside, I think it's reasonable to say that a large company does not have a direct legal obligation to do anything other than continue to shit out unthinking sexy-lady claptrap. However, I'm also comfortable saying that I think companies that take that stance are asshole companies run by asshole people. Peter Parker's mantra comes to mind.
posted by Scattercat at 4:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
posted by Scattercat at 4:33 PM on April 2, 2016 [16 favorites]
If games with a female main character sell less than games with a male main character, is it wrong for a company to cater to the most profitable segment?
Big if.
But also, yes, I think it's wrong for companies to say "well, prejudice sells, we have no choice!"
posted by jeather at 4:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
Big if.
But also, yes, I think it's wrong for companies to say "well, prejudice sells, we have no choice!"
posted by jeather at 4:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
Bioware developer Manveer Heir gave a talk at GDC a couple of years ago that addressed that topic. As I remember, he had data indicating that games with female leads get less marketing support, which makes their generally poorer sales a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. I'll see if I can dig it up…
posted by danb at 4:40 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by danb at 4:40 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I remember playing Mass Effect 2 some years ago and getting really frustrated with the way that the game set Miranda up in a hyper-sexualised way
Mass Effect 2, feat: Miranda's assssssss. I found her terrorist-apologetics deeply annoying and skipped through her cutscenes.
On the plus side ME2's femshep, via the incomparable voice stylings of Jennifer Hale and some tightly grounded mocap, is one of the great female characters in gaming.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:41 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mass Effect 2, feat: Miranda's assssssss. I found her terrorist-apologetics deeply annoying and skipped through her cutscenes.
On the plus side ME2's femshep, via the incomparable voice stylings of Jennifer Hale and some tightly grounded mocap, is one of the great female characters in gaming.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:41 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mod note: Hazelsmrf, we've been down this road with you in gaming threads before. You've stated your opinion, I think it's best you leave it at that instead of digging in and serially commenting such that you're more than 10% of comments in a small thread. People are not going to agree with your POV and repeating it several times will not make them agree; it will just derail the thread. Thanks.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:41 PM on April 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 4:41 PM on April 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
They are the target and so those are the only games that continue to keep on being made, in the same exclusionary/divisive way. Nothing ever evolves or is improved upon.
But games are evolving, and they are being improved upon.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:43 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
But games are evolving, and they are being improved upon.
posted by Sebmojo at 4:43 PM on April 2, 2016 [1 favorite]
And then the last video, he made a joke about useless/crazy people on social media feeds, and included images of the Fine Brothers (of "X Reacts!" fame), a couple of ranting (probably actually mentally ill) people, and... Anita Sarkeesian. And when I commented to express my dismay, I got a shouting rant casting me out of the skeptic fanbase forever from Captain Disillusion himself for being divisive and destructive.
Godsdammit. I liked his vids. Not entirely surprised though, since the skeptic community harbors a lot of sexist people, oddly.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:52 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Godsdammit. I liked his vids. Not entirely surprised though, since the skeptic community harbors a lot of sexist people, oddly.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 4:52 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Game developers make fewer games with female protagonists, are even told to remove them from games to appeal to the larger market: "well, publishers are just making what sells, can you blame them?"
Game developers remove more prurient or lolita-esque elements from games to appeal more to the Western market: "this is blatant censorship and I refuse to support this on principle"
posted by chrominance at 4:55 PM on April 2, 2016 [22 favorites]
Game developers remove more prurient or lolita-esque elements from games to appeal more to the Western market: "this is blatant censorship and I refuse to support this on principle"
posted by chrominance at 4:55 PM on April 2, 2016 [22 favorites]
somebody who so thoroughly identifies with the video game industry that any sort of criticism of a game [...] looks like a personal attack
But games culture is actually full of criticism, some of it directed at games people hold very, very dear. The fact that people take these games seriously can't explain their outsized reaction to people like Sarkeesian. They aren't for the most part storming the Youtube channels of reviewers who disliked Dark Souls II and organizing hate campaigns while threatening to rape and kill them.
It's only when the criticism is about issues of representation and fairness--especially with regards to women--that they explode into this frothy, entitled rage. That's when they become so vengeful.
And hatred of specifically feminist and "SJW" criticism of games is incredibly normalized within games culture--even among men who are not at all associated with gamergate. Look at Fizz's example above. Gamergate is an especially toxic outgrowth of more general toxic culture of misogyny and masculine fragility.
Identification with games only amplifies the general problem of sexism among men.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:56 PM on April 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
But games culture is actually full of criticism, some of it directed at games people hold very, very dear. The fact that people take these games seriously can't explain their outsized reaction to people like Sarkeesian. They aren't for the most part storming the Youtube channels of reviewers who disliked Dark Souls II and organizing hate campaigns while threatening to rape and kill them.
It's only when the criticism is about issues of representation and fairness--especially with regards to women--that they explode into this frothy, entitled rage. That's when they become so vengeful.
And hatred of specifically feminist and "SJW" criticism of games is incredibly normalized within games culture--even among men who are not at all associated with gamergate. Look at Fizz's example above. Gamergate is an especially toxic outgrowth of more general toxic culture of misogyny and masculine fragility.
Identification with games only amplifies the general problem of sexism among men.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:56 PM on April 2, 2016 [25 favorites]
I'll just throw it out there that I identify closer to GG than not.
GameerGate is a hate group; it wouldn't exist, and couldn't function, without hatred of women. Its core mission is to keep women in games in their place.
I'm deeply sorry that you identify with it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:06 PM on April 2, 2016 [55 favorites]
GameerGate is a hate group; it wouldn't exist, and couldn't function, without hatred of women. Its core mission is to keep women in games in their place.
I'm deeply sorry that you identify with it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 5:06 PM on April 2, 2016 [55 favorites]
I have never, ever understood why these videos generate the foaming frothing rage they do.
I spent a lot of time last year pondering this question, because I'm a white gay guy and just didn't understand where the GamerGate misogyny was coming from. If you watch even a little of her videos it's clear they are written by someone who is making a serious study of games as art, or craft, and even if you disagree with the feminist critique there's a lot to learn from the videos.
Anyway I read a bunch of GamerGate stuff, and finally came to the conclusion the backlash is really simple. Straight guys really hate being told by women that sexual objectification is creepy. That's it. Some subset of gamer guys have had this wonderful fantasyland of controlling sexy women in games and it makes them really mad when someone calls them on their shit. Particularly a strong, intelligent women.
There's nothing more complicated. It's just straight guys protecting their privilege for the most part.
(Whether this is a metaphor for the 2016 presidential election is up to you.)
posted by Nelson at 5:26 PM on April 2, 2016 [34 favorites]
I spent a lot of time last year pondering this question, because I'm a white gay guy and just didn't understand where the GamerGate misogyny was coming from. If you watch even a little of her videos it's clear they are written by someone who is making a serious study of games as art, or craft, and even if you disagree with the feminist critique there's a lot to learn from the videos.
Anyway I read a bunch of GamerGate stuff, and finally came to the conclusion the backlash is really simple. Straight guys really hate being told by women that sexual objectification is creepy. That's it. Some subset of gamer guys have had this wonderful fantasyland of controlling sexy women in games and it makes them really mad when someone calls them on their shit. Particularly a strong, intelligent women.
There's nothing more complicated. It's just straight guys protecting their privilege for the most part.
(Whether this is a metaphor for the 2016 presidential election is up to you.)
posted by Nelson at 5:26 PM on April 2, 2016 [34 favorites]
Sebmojo,
Oh absolutely, I agree. My comment was more in direct response to the question that Hazelsmrf was raising. I absolutely see that the gaming industry is changing (slowly but surely) and there are developers who are getting it and thinking critically and I'm glad it's happening. I hope it continues.
posted by Fizz at 5:26 PM on April 2, 2016
Oh absolutely, I agree. My comment was more in direct response to the question that Hazelsmrf was raising. I absolutely see that the gaming industry is changing (slowly but surely) and there are developers who are getting it and thinking critically and I'm glad it's happening. I hope it continues.
posted by Fizz at 5:26 PM on April 2, 2016
Somewhat apropos, I just finished Assassin's Creed: Syndicate. It's a fine game, nothing great, suffers from the samey-sameness that comes from Ubisoft churning out one AC game a year. What's nice is the game features twin sibling leads, one man and one woman. They're equal but have some differences and most of the game you can choose to play one or the other. (Some sequences require you to play as one or the other for story reasons).
The woman character is so nicely written, and stylishly animated, and it's just so adult compared to the animated Barbie dolls that pass for women leads in most games. She's attractive but not cartoonish, she has a romance plot that's played for interest and not vapidity, she's feminine while also being strong and kick-ass as appropriate for her character. It's refreshing.
Feminist Frequency got an advance review copy, here's their review which is mostly positive but points out a few flaws.
posted by Nelson at 5:27 PM on April 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
The woman character is so nicely written, and stylishly animated, and it's just so adult compared to the animated Barbie dolls that pass for women leads in most games. She's attractive but not cartoonish, she has a romance plot that's played for interest and not vapidity, she's feminine while also being strong and kick-ass as appropriate for her character. It's refreshing.
Feminist Frequency got an advance review copy, here's their review which is mostly positive but points out a few flaws.
posted by Nelson at 5:27 PM on April 2, 2016 [9 favorites]
Pope Guilty: I talked to a guy recently at work who explained that video games are his whole life, and they're who and what he is. That's the kind of person gamergate attracts- somebody who so thoroughly identifies with the video game industry that any sort of criticism of a game (that hits games he identifies with, of course- games which don't speak directly to this sort of individual look like an intrusion at best) looks like a personal attack on his identity.
The thing is, the people who REALLY live and breathe games are the people who work in the game industry. I am such a person. And as far as I can tell, nearly all of us like the Tropes vs Women in Videogames series. That is, I've heard of exceptions, but I've never met any.
Basically, Sarkeesian gives us something that we crave: thoughtful criticism. That's something everyone in a creative profession wants, if only because it shows that someone is actually paying attention. It doesn't seem like an attack to us, because we can't afford to think of the stuff we make as uncriticizable -- that's a surefire way to wind up making crappy stuff.
There's also another factor: the people who harass Sarkeesian tend to go after game devs too. I mean, people are talking about GG here with respect to Sarkeesian, but the GG hashtag wasn't invented for Sarkeesian, it was invented for a character assassination of a game developer. So there's definitely some sympathy derived from a sense that we're in the same boat there.
posted by baf at 5:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [44 favorites]
The thing is, the people who REALLY live and breathe games are the people who work in the game industry. I am such a person. And as far as I can tell, nearly all of us like the Tropes vs Women in Videogames series. That is, I've heard of exceptions, but I've never met any.
Basically, Sarkeesian gives us something that we crave: thoughtful criticism. That's something everyone in a creative profession wants, if only because it shows that someone is actually paying attention. It doesn't seem like an attack to us, because we can't afford to think of the stuff we make as uncriticizable -- that's a surefire way to wind up making crappy stuff.
There's also another factor: the people who harass Sarkeesian tend to go after game devs too. I mean, people are talking about GG here with respect to Sarkeesian, but the GG hashtag wasn't invented for Sarkeesian, it was invented for a character assassination of a game developer. So there's definitely some sympathy derived from a sense that we're in the same boat there.
posted by baf at 5:35 PM on April 2, 2016 [44 favorites]
Aw, that was so short! I appreciated how meaty her previous episodes were, but it looks like the Season 2 videos are all going to be under 10 minutes. I understand they must take a ton of work to produce. Still, it's a shame. The length of the Season 1 episodes made them feel compendious and academic.
posted by painquale at 5:49 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by painquale at 5:49 PM on April 2, 2016 [3 favorites]
Re: sex differences in VR:
It's completely plausible that there could be sex related differences in how depth cues are perceived. However, if you actually read danah boyd's paper (rather than just her blog post about it), the actual magnitude of the effect is small, the sample sizes are small (10 men and women in the largest experiment), and there do not appear to be consistent trends.
The biggest observed difference between men and women in the study is only six percentage points (see the tables on page 15 and 17). In her own words, "In the threshold part of the experiment [experiment 1], individual variation was apparent, but no statistically significant differences were found based on either individual differences or sex differences", and in the second experiment sex differences aren't even mentioned in the discussion.
posted by Pyry at 6:44 PM on April 2, 2016
It's completely plausible that there could be sex related differences in how depth cues are perceived. However, if you actually read danah boyd's paper (rather than just her blog post about it), the actual magnitude of the effect is small, the sample sizes are small (10 men and women in the largest experiment), and there do not appear to be consistent trends.
The biggest observed difference between men and women in the study is only six percentage points (see the tables on page 15 and 17). In her own words, "In the threshold part of the experiment [experiment 1], individual variation was apparent, but no statistically significant differences were found based on either individual differences or sex differences", and in the second experiment sex differences aren't even mentioned in the discussion.
posted by Pyry at 6:44 PM on April 2, 2016
It's completely plausible that there could be sex related differences in how depth cues are perceived.
Given women are more susceptible to car sickness, sea sickness, and any other kinds of motion sickness I would be shocked if there weren't. I'm finding conflicting reports on the magnitude of the effect, though. Very conflicting.
posted by Justinian at 6:59 PM on April 2, 2016
Given women are more susceptible to car sickness, sea sickness, and any other kinds of motion sickness I would be shocked if there weren't. I'm finding conflicting reports on the magnitude of the effect, though. Very conflicting.
posted by Justinian at 6:59 PM on April 2, 2016
The thing is, the people who REALLY live and breathe games are the people who work in the game industry. I am such a person.
You have something in your life- a career, skills, outside interests. You've got an identity, even identities. You're a creator.
The kind of person I'm talking about? Not so much. This is a person whose identity is "I consume the products of this particular industry". That's not a healthy position.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:57 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
You have something in your life- a career, skills, outside interests. You've got an identity, even identities. You're a creator.
The kind of person I'm talking about? Not so much. This is a person whose identity is "I consume the products of this particular industry". That's not a healthy position.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:57 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I have never, ever understood why these videos generate the foaming frothing rage they do.
I think this video series (By, Metafilters own Peevish) does a really good job of deconstructing it.
posted by St. Sorryass at 8:23 PM on April 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
I think this video series (By, Metafilters own Peevish) does a really good job of deconstructing it.
posted by St. Sorryass at 8:23 PM on April 2, 2016 [7 favorites]
The kind of person I'm talking about? Not so much. This is a person whose identity is "I consume the products of this particular industry". That's not a healthy position.
That's not a healthy position full stop.
posted by Sebmojo at 8:52 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
That's not a healthy position full stop.
posted by Sebmojo at 8:52 PM on April 2, 2016 [2 favorites]
I should clarify, I suppose, that I mean I cannot viscerally grasp the mindset of those who are enraged by Anita's videos. I can understand not liking them or disagreeing with their overall points, perhaps feeling that they exaggerate or nitpick (and honestly I've been less than thrilled with some of her chosen examples, which really do sometimes feel a little forced; it's the wide montage ones that have the most impact, the million small instances... anyway, kind of irrelevant). But they're bland. They're not making particularly grand or controversial claims. They're not even super-firebrandy feminist. Just like basic ordinary-person feminist.
I can even understand why someone might feel threatened by the greater visibility of women and feminism in "male" pursuits like video games. Goodness knows I get cranky and irritable when I feel like "outsiders" are invading "my" spaces, but like, that's the part of you that is bad that has those feelings? Like, the selfish, "I'm the best," "How dare they?" feelings, those are things you're supposed to try to suppress, like when someone jostles you and you feel angry but you suppress instead of like shouting profanity or punching them because otherwise you're ruining society? And I don't really get how someone feels those feelings and doesn't notice that they're doing that? And it makes me uptalk apparently?
posted by Scattercat at 9:15 PM on April 2, 2016 [11 favorites]
I can even understand why someone might feel threatened by the greater visibility of women and feminism in "male" pursuits like video games. Goodness knows I get cranky and irritable when I feel like "outsiders" are invading "my" spaces, but like, that's the part of you that is bad that has those feelings? Like, the selfish, "I'm the best," "How dare they?" feelings, those are things you're supposed to try to suppress, like when someone jostles you and you feel angry but you suppress instead of like shouting profanity or punching them because otherwise you're ruining society? And I don't really get how someone feels those feelings and doesn't notice that they're doing that? And it makes me uptalk apparently?
posted by Scattercat at 9:15 PM on April 2, 2016 [11 favorites]
Scattercat, I think that's a nicely accurate reading. The last decade has seen a significant cultural shift for games and the internet from being dominated by poorly socialised young men to being for everyone.
I think for a lot of guys it feels like feminism is sort of like, idk, climbing up into the boys treehouse, poking round its piles of dirty socks and erotic comic books and making tut-tut noises. For most people that's no big deal - but for a few people whose lives are otherwise utterly barren, it's code red end of the fucking world.
Anita's essential blandness is what makes her into such a delightful troll-queen - she's politely saying obvious, inarguable stuff (e.g. video games were historically designed by and for poorly socialised young men) and it's driving people out of their minds.
posted by Sebmojo at 9:59 PM on April 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
I think for a lot of guys it feels like feminism is sort of like, idk, climbing up into the boys treehouse, poking round its piles of dirty socks and erotic comic books and making tut-tut noises. For most people that's no big deal - but for a few people whose lives are otherwise utterly barren, it's code red end of the fucking world.
Anita's essential blandness is what makes her into such a delightful troll-queen - she's politely saying obvious, inarguable stuff (e.g. video games were historically designed by and for poorly socialised young men) and it's driving people out of their minds.
posted by Sebmojo at 9:59 PM on April 2, 2016 [10 favorites]
Not everyone can offer a return on kickstarters like Jordan Owen and Davis Aurini or the Honey Badger Brigade do.
posted by sukeban at 2:41 AM on April 3, 2016
posted by sukeban at 2:41 AM on April 3, 2016
Nintendo Firing a Female Gamer Only Makes the Trolls More Rabid
The campaign against Rapp revolved around criticism of changes made to games as they’re adapted to various regions or countries, something called localization. For the role-playing game Xenoblade Chronicles X, this included removing some of the skimpy outfits worn by teenaged characters and eliminating the so-called “boob slider” that let players change the bust size of various characters. [...] “Over the last few [weeks], I’ve had to talk safety measures [with] my family- including talks [with] police about possible suspicious activity,” she wrote on Twitter yesterday. “Throughout all this, [GamerGate] has been digging up all kinds of things about my personal life and contacting Nintendo about them.”posted by runt at 6:53 AM on April 3, 2016
The people who actually gave Sarkeesian money mostly seem satisfied with her work. It's the people who never gave her a cent, who objected to the very idea of her making videos, who are inexplicably upset at how she's managed the money they didn't give her.
Yeah... It's almost as if the people who actually wanted to see a Feminist Frequency spin-off based on video games are basically OK with a) the greater complications caused by massive overfunding, which required the creation of new stretch goals etc, and b) the further complications caused by a mass of harassment by obsessed people who have in many cases kept this up for years.
Conversely, those dudes seem to be terribly upset that this terrible fraudster, who is also consistently wrong about video games, is also not putting out more videos quickly enough. Which, yeah, seems strange to me.
However, this may have also had some unintended positive effects. For example, this "con artist" is unusual for publishing an annual report, which tracks achievements for the year and also explains how the org's funding is being spent. This could of course be a confection, but it certainly seems to stand in some contrast to, for example, The Sarkeesian Effect, the crowdfunded counterblast that asked for $15,000 a month for an indefinite period, and achieved transparency of a sort only when the creators fell out and started publishing their Skype chat transcripts.
Of course, there are perfectly valid criticisms of Tropes versus Women in Video Games, and interesting and useful discussions of where it draws more or less reasonable conclusions, and indeed plenty of questions of personal taste and how it relates to the use of tropes. Sarkeesian herself acknowledges this in the much-ignored but ever-present disclaimer about how it is not just possible but totally normal to enjoy media which does not achieve a perfect score on its treatment to gender.
However, you can't say something like "actually, I think that Bayonetta's relationship with sex and sexuality is a lot more complicated and interesting than TvWiVG's take on it would suggest" without have a bunch of these people jumping on it and barking that yes, absolutely, and also Anita (they always call her Anita, which is sort of creepy) is a con artist and a censor, and also perhaps a racial infiltrator who has bleached her skin and trained herself to smile like a white person. This may be accompanied with some more or less So, those discussions in the main take place in private, while the people who have made it impossible to have them in public by defecating in the pool take that as proof of her terrifying Stalinist stranglehold on the games industry.
It's sad, but there probably isn't a way to fix it - the level of commitment required to believe this stuff in the first place means that huge effort goes into patching it in the face of reality.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:10 AM on April 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah... It's almost as if the people who actually wanted to see a Feminist Frequency spin-off based on video games are basically OK with a) the greater complications caused by massive overfunding, which required the creation of new stretch goals etc, and b) the further complications caused by a mass of harassment by obsessed people who have in many cases kept this up for years.
Conversely, those dudes seem to be terribly upset that this terrible fraudster, who is also consistently wrong about video games, is also not putting out more videos quickly enough. Which, yeah, seems strange to me.
However, this may have also had some unintended positive effects. For example, this "con artist" is unusual for publishing an annual report, which tracks achievements for the year and also explains how the org's funding is being spent. This could of course be a confection, but it certainly seems to stand in some contrast to, for example, The Sarkeesian Effect, the crowdfunded counterblast that asked for $15,000 a month for an indefinite period, and achieved transparency of a sort only when the creators fell out and started publishing their Skype chat transcripts.
Of course, there are perfectly valid criticisms of Tropes versus Women in Video Games, and interesting and useful discussions of where it draws more or less reasonable conclusions, and indeed plenty of questions of personal taste and how it relates to the use of tropes. Sarkeesian herself acknowledges this in the much-ignored but ever-present disclaimer about how it is not just possible but totally normal to enjoy media which does not achieve a perfect score on its treatment to gender.
However, you can't say something like "actually, I think that Bayonetta's relationship with sex and sexuality is a lot more complicated and interesting than TvWiVG's take on it would suggest" without have a bunch of these people jumping on it and barking that yes, absolutely, and also Anita (they always call her Anita, which is sort of creepy) is a con artist and a censor, and also perhaps a racial infiltrator who has bleached her skin and trained herself to smile like a white person. This may be accompanied with some more or less So, those discussions in the main take place in private, while the people who have made it impossible to have them in public by defecating in the pool take that as proof of her terrifying Stalinist stranglehold on the games industry.
It's sad, but there probably isn't a way to fix it - the level of commitment required to believe this stuff in the first place means that huge effort goes into patching it in the face of reality.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:10 AM on April 3, 2016 [7 favorites]
I cannot viscerally grasp the mindset of those who are enraged by Anita's videos.
It's pure defensiveness. These men feel threatened by criticism of their sexual desires. They are being told that the way they look at women is wrong and they lash out against the critics. There's nothing rational about it, certainly nothing that betrays self-awareness. They like their simplistic videogame titties and don't like being told there may be something wrong with that.
Some of the emotional response is probably reaction to Sarkeesian's on-screen style, her unflinching gaze and slightly scolding tone. Not at all suggesting this is her fault or she should alter her style, I like that she's not pandering. But she's challenging the viewer in a way women aren't supposed to. (Good for her!) Also the GamerGate thing is hugely amplified by the disgusting cesspit of sexists reinforcing each other online, goading each other into increasingly irrational man-child opinions.
Still not sure if this is a metaphor for the 2016 presidential election. If we get Trump v Clinton be prepared for a lot of angry white guys whose mindset you can't grasp, spewing bile about their contempt for women.
posted by Nelson at 7:20 AM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
It's pure defensiveness. These men feel threatened by criticism of their sexual desires. They are being told that the way they look at women is wrong and they lash out against the critics. There's nothing rational about it, certainly nothing that betrays self-awareness. They like their simplistic videogame titties and don't like being told there may be something wrong with that.
Some of the emotional response is probably reaction to Sarkeesian's on-screen style, her unflinching gaze and slightly scolding tone. Not at all suggesting this is her fault or she should alter her style, I like that she's not pandering. But she's challenging the viewer in a way women aren't supposed to. (Good for her!) Also the GamerGate thing is hugely amplified by the disgusting cesspit of sexists reinforcing each other online, goading each other into increasingly irrational man-child opinions.
Still not sure if this is a metaphor for the 2016 presidential election. If we get Trump v Clinton be prepared for a lot of angry white guys whose mindset you can't grasp, spewing bile about their contempt for women.
posted by Nelson at 7:20 AM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
(Oops - edit window closed with an unnoticed accidental deletion. That should read "This may be accompanied with some more or less appalling cartoons and caricatures".)
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:34 AM on April 3, 2016
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:34 AM on April 3, 2016
I understand the male gaze. I know it when I see it in movies. I know it when it's directed at me.
I still jolted when watching Mad Max Fury Road. Why? Because the first time Max comes upon the group of young, scantily clad women I was hit how ingrained it is, how women are introduced to the viewer. Especially in an action film. Especially with young, lovely women. I knew exactly how the scene would be filmed, without even thinking about it consciously.
Then the film subverted that trope and shot the women like goddamn humans and instead shot the water with that same possessive view usually reserved for women.
The male gaze is just everywhere, to such a point introducing women with respect in a film is some sort of revolutionary action.
posted by Windigo at 7:50 AM on April 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
I still jolted when watching Mad Max Fury Road. Why? Because the first time Max comes upon the group of young, scantily clad women I was hit how ingrained it is, how women are introduced to the viewer. Especially in an action film. Especially with young, lovely women. I knew exactly how the scene would be filmed, without even thinking about it consciously.
Then the film subverted that trope and shot the women like goddamn humans and instead shot the water with that same possessive view usually reserved for women.
The male gaze is just everywhere, to such a point introducing women with respect in a film is some sort of revolutionary action.
posted by Windigo at 7:50 AM on April 3, 2016 [11 favorites]
I quite enjoyed the comment towards the middle where Sarkeesian clarifies that turning the main character into an object makes it more difficult to relate to them as a subject. Difficult to put yourself in their shoes, difficult to become engaged in the story they are trying to tell.
posted by rebent at 7:51 AM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by rebent at 7:51 AM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Hazelsmrf: "How much is it up to the game developer to change the culture vs the audience? If games with a female main character sell less than games with a male main character, is it wrong for a company to cater to the most profitable segment?"
I hear this a lot in relation to Sarkeesian and other similar criticism. I think the value of criticism doesn't rest solely in whether it changes the thing being criticised. Being more conscious of the sexist elements within a game, even if you don't stop playing it and even if it doesn't stop getting made, helps inoculate against its effects. You think to yourself, "Ah, this game is doing something a bit sexist," and are less likely to assume this is just the inherent natural order of things.
This line of questioning also reminds me of Jay Smooth's "What they did vs. what they are" principle. I think Sarkeesian makes these videos about the "this thing they did is sexist" conversation and you're talking about the developer's motives.
posted by RobotHero at 8:15 AM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I hear this a lot in relation to Sarkeesian and other similar criticism. I think the value of criticism doesn't rest solely in whether it changes the thing being criticised. Being more conscious of the sexist elements within a game, even if you don't stop playing it and even if it doesn't stop getting made, helps inoculate against its effects. You think to yourself, "Ah, this game is doing something a bit sexist," and are less likely to assume this is just the inherent natural order of things.
This line of questioning also reminds me of Jay Smooth's "What they did vs. what they are" principle. I think Sarkeesian makes these videos about the "this thing they did is sexist" conversation and you're talking about the developer's motives.
posted by RobotHero at 8:15 AM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
If games with a female main character sell less than games with a male main character, is it wrong for a company to cater to the most profitable segment?
Off the top of my head, Portal.
And, can't be arsed to find the link right now, research has indicated that not only are women a slight majority of gamers (yes, if memory serves, even on console), women are a solid majority of game buyers. So there's that.
One also needs to take into consideration that when playing multiplayer online stuff, a lot of women assume male personas just so they don't get directly targeted with the toxic misogyny that so many games perpetuate.
I'd like to call out Fallout 4 as doing pretty well on sexist/male gaze metrics. There are some bits here and there, and the robots are grotesquely gendered at times--this seems to be an outgrowth of the starting principles of pre-War Fallout society which the devs are kinda locked into at this point. What I'm trying to say is that interacting with human characters, the genders are largely irrelevant (although not even remotely perfect; the tiny subplot about the guy whose wife is cheating on him is gross, and the scientists in Diamond City, while female, are a) an airhead, and b) a humourless grim person). Breasts are human-sized, there's no boob-and-bikini-bottom armour that I've seen. Not perfect, step in the right direction though.
And now I really want to play Portal again.
Also how does one get on the Macarthur people to get Sarkeesian a grant? I can think of few people who deserve it more. Her bravery in the face of the overwhelming torrent of abuse and threats is humbling.
I think Sarkeesian makes these videos about the "this thing they did is sexist" conversation and you're talking about the developer's motives.
I read Smooth's strategy as more useful in 1-on-1 situations. Sarkeesian is, rightly, pointing out that the sexist things these game devs (I am using game dev as shorthand for "every sexist motherfucker right up to the CEO") are doing is rooted in toxic misogyny that at the very least they are indifferent to examining. So yeah, to a point their motivations come into question. After that point though, it doesn't matter: they are producing nasty toxic sexist (and racist, and queerphobic) shit and they need to get called out on it hard.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:43 AM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Off the top of my head, Portal.
And, can't be arsed to find the link right now, research has indicated that not only are women a slight majority of gamers (yes, if memory serves, even on console), women are a solid majority of game buyers. So there's that.
One also needs to take into consideration that when playing multiplayer online stuff, a lot of women assume male personas just so they don't get directly targeted with the toxic misogyny that so many games perpetuate.
I'd like to call out Fallout 4 as doing pretty well on sexist/male gaze metrics. There are some bits here and there, and the robots are grotesquely gendered at times--this seems to be an outgrowth of the starting principles of pre-War Fallout society which the devs are kinda locked into at this point. What I'm trying to say is that interacting with human characters, the genders are largely irrelevant (although not even remotely perfect; the tiny subplot about the guy whose wife is cheating on him is gross, and the scientists in Diamond City, while female, are a) an airhead, and b) a humourless grim person). Breasts are human-sized, there's no boob-and-bikini-bottom armour that I've seen. Not perfect, step in the right direction though.
And now I really want to play Portal again.
Also how does one get on the Macarthur people to get Sarkeesian a grant? I can think of few people who deserve it more. Her bravery in the face of the overwhelming torrent of abuse and threats is humbling.
I think Sarkeesian makes these videos about the "this thing they did is sexist" conversation and you're talking about the developer's motives.
I read Smooth's strategy as more useful in 1-on-1 situations. Sarkeesian is, rightly, pointing out that the sexist things these game devs (I am using game dev as shorthand for "every sexist motherfucker right up to the CEO") are doing is rooted in toxic misogyny that at the very least they are indifferent to examining. So yeah, to a point their motivations come into question. After that point though, it doesn't matter: they are producing nasty toxic sexist (and racist, and queerphobic) shit and they need to get called out on it hard.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 8:43 AM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mod note: If you have a problem with the moderating, take it to metatalk. And please FIAMO, don't respond to those derails in-thread, thanks.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:08 AM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:08 AM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
Off the top of my head, Portal.
Yep - and of course then you get into the question of whether some of the most successful recent genres - like MOBAs, builders, F2P MMOs and class-based multiplayer shooters - can meaningfully even be said to have male or female protagonists, when there is such a range of playable characters or customisation options. Like, Tracer is definitely one of the most heavily promoted characters in Overwatch, but you could play Overwatch for years without ever playing Tracer.
The other thing there is that it's very hard, really, to have a control group, since it's very rare for two games to be released at the same time with the same marketing budget, strength of brand, review scores etc, but with one having a male main character and one a female main character.
So, like for like is difficult. It looks like Assassin's Creed: Syndicate, which allows you to play most of the game as either Jacob or Evie Frye, had a difficult first week in sales terms, but I am fairly confident that this was primarily because the previous game in the series, Unity, had shipped with many highly memeable bugs, rather than because of the gender balance of its protagonists. That seems to be borne out by the fact that its second week, after word of mouth kicked in, outstripped Unity's, but I guess one could argue that actually this was because people who had stayed away due to the possibility of playing as a woman were persuaded that it was a good enough game experience to overcome that reluctance.
That said, if we're looking at this in terms of that level of market logic, it seems that all third-person environment-scaling action-adventure games would at this point have female protagonists, after the success of Lara Croft: Tomb Raider. After that, why would you even bother thinking about having a male protagonist in a game that involved running, jumping, shooting and puzzle-solving in a third-person perspective, when games featuring Lara Croft sold so well? From that perspective, Naughty Dog took a bold risk by having Nathan rather than Natalie Drake as the protagonist of the Uncharted series.
Of course, in fact all sorts of factors feed into how well a game performs - not least if it's any good (games starring Lara Croft performed progressively less well in the market not because Lara Croft became more female but because the games got worse, until eventually the series had to be handed to a new creative team and rebooted).
If the sole factor in any game design decision was "will this make this game resemble more closely another game that made a lot of money", everyone would currently be trying to make Clash of Clans or League of Legends. Many, of course, are trying to do just that, but it's not the only thing that's happening in game publishing.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:13 AM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yep - and of course then you get into the question of whether some of the most successful recent genres - like MOBAs, builders, F2P MMOs and class-based multiplayer shooters - can meaningfully even be said to have male or female protagonists, when there is such a range of playable characters or customisation options. Like, Tracer is definitely one of the most heavily promoted characters in Overwatch, but you could play Overwatch for years without ever playing Tracer.
The other thing there is that it's very hard, really, to have a control group, since it's very rare for two games to be released at the same time with the same marketing budget, strength of brand, review scores etc, but with one having a male main character and one a female main character.
So, like for like is difficult. It looks like Assassin's Creed: Syndicate, which allows you to play most of the game as either Jacob or Evie Frye, had a difficult first week in sales terms, but I am fairly confident that this was primarily because the previous game in the series, Unity, had shipped with many highly memeable bugs, rather than because of the gender balance of its protagonists. That seems to be borne out by the fact that its second week, after word of mouth kicked in, outstripped Unity's, but I guess one could argue that actually this was because people who had stayed away due to the possibility of playing as a woman were persuaded that it was a good enough game experience to overcome that reluctance.
That said, if we're looking at this in terms of that level of market logic, it seems that all third-person environment-scaling action-adventure games would at this point have female protagonists, after the success of Lara Croft: Tomb Raider. After that, why would you even bother thinking about having a male protagonist in a game that involved running, jumping, shooting and puzzle-solving in a third-person perspective, when games featuring Lara Croft sold so well? From that perspective, Naughty Dog took a bold risk by having Nathan rather than Natalie Drake as the protagonist of the Uncharted series.
Of course, in fact all sorts of factors feed into how well a game performs - not least if it's any good (games starring Lara Croft performed progressively less well in the market not because Lara Croft became more female but because the games got worse, until eventually the series had to be handed to a new creative team and rebooted).
If the sole factor in any game design decision was "will this make this game resemble more closely another game that made a lot of money", everyone would currently be trying to make Clash of Clans or League of Legends. Many, of course, are trying to do just that, but it's not the only thing that's happening in game publishing.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:13 AM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
when games featuring Lara Croft sold so well?
I submit that the reason the Lara Croft games sold so well had approximately fuck all to do with gameplay and rather more to do with digital breasts.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:16 AM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
I submit that the reason the Lara Croft games sold so well had approximately fuck all to do with gameplay and rather more to do with digital breasts.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 9:16 AM on April 3, 2016 [2 favorites]
feckless fecal fear mongering: "So yeah, to a point their motivations come into question. After that point though, it doesn't matter: they are producing nasty toxic sexist (and racist, and queerphobic) shit and they need to get called out on it hard."
But Sarkeesian isn't making a series of call-out videos. She is approaching from the direction of identifying and discussing the "tropes" rather than who is to blame for those tropes being there.
posted by RobotHero at 9:36 AM on April 3, 2016
But Sarkeesian isn't making a series of call-out videos. She is approaching from the direction of identifying and discussing the "tropes" rather than who is to blame for those tropes being there.
posted by RobotHero at 9:36 AM on April 3, 2016
And, can't be arsed to find the link right now, research has indicated that not only are women a slight majority of gamers (yes, if memory serves, even on console), women are a solid majority of game buyers. So there's that.
But spending much less per year than men which means men still account for most revenue and profit. But that doesn't somehow make it okay to be hideously sexist.
posted by Justinian at 11:30 AM on April 3, 2016
But spending much less per year than men which means men still account for most revenue and profit. But that doesn't somehow make it okay to be hideously sexist.
posted by Justinian at 11:30 AM on April 3, 2016
For anyone interested, Here are 2015 stats about gamers from the ESA. The median game-buyer is a early to mid 30s male playing on PC who spends roughly an hour a day playing online against others, with time split evenly between social games, action games, and other types. The best selling and most profitable games are shooters by a decent margin.
posted by Justinian at 11:37 AM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 11:37 AM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd actually disagree that Tomb Raider's success had nothing to do with gameplay. It can be hard to remember this, but Tomb Raider came out fully twenty years ago, and at the time, its gameplay was nothing short of revolutionary. It was a Prince-of-Persia-style platformer in 3D! The only other game resembling it was Mario 64, which was only available on the brand new Nintendo console you probably didn't have yet.
But yeah, over the following years they improved the breasts more than they improved the gameplay.
posted by baf at 12:17 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
But yeah, over the following years they improved the breasts more than they improved the gameplay.
posted by baf at 12:17 PM on April 3, 2016 [5 favorites]
I submit that the reason the Lara Croft games sold so well had approximately fuck all to do with gameplay and rather more to do with digital breasts.
While the Tomb Raider (2009) reboot and the recent Rise of the Tomb Raider (2015) games still contain a number of the problematic tropes that Ms. Anita Sarkesian has identified in previous videos, I would like to point out that there have been noticeable improvements to Lara Croft as a character. She is powerful and intelligent and her story does not ultimately depend upon a love-interest or the need for her to be rescued. Of course the game does still manage to point the camera at her ass for a majority of the time, but Lara Croft as a character has evolved for the better. Still plenty of room for improvement.
posted by Fizz at 12:23 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
While the Tomb Raider (2009) reboot and the recent Rise of the Tomb Raider (2015) games still contain a number of the problematic tropes that Ms. Anita Sarkesian has identified in previous videos, I would like to point out that there have been noticeable improvements to Lara Croft as a character. She is powerful and intelligent and her story does not ultimately depend upon a love-interest or the need for her to be rescued. Of course the game does still manage to point the camera at her ass for a majority of the time, but Lara Croft as a character has evolved for the better. Still plenty of room for improvement.
posted by Fizz at 12:23 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I submit that the reason the Lara Croft games sold so well had approximately fuck all to do with gameplay and rather more to do with digital breasts.
I don't want to perpetuate a chesty derail here, but while I'd agree that Croft was progressively more played up as a sex symbol in the marketing of the games, and that there was a lot of rule 34ing of the character, I don't think it can be said that gameplay played no part, or even a non-significant part, in the game's success. You don't sell 7 million copies of a game in 1996 without that game actually having some appeal beyond ogling polygons. It was also a really good game, for its time, and has been hugely influential on the genre.
And, contrariwise, sales didn't drop because Lara's character model was slimmed down, but because the original Core team burned out making four sequels in four years, and the diminishing return was compounded by the last Core Design game, Angel of Darkness having a lengthy and complicated development process and finally being a stinker when it came out. In fact, the 2013 reboot, in which Croft is younger and distinctly less busty, is still the best-selling Tomb Raider game of all time (although of course it's in a far larger, if also far more crowded, market).
You can certainly sell games on the promise of digital breasts alone (or, these days, the promise of digital breasts and the pleasurable sensation of sticking it to the SJWs who don't want you to enjoy digital breasts), but it's a pretty niche market.
posted by running order squabble fest at 1:11 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't want to perpetuate a chesty derail here, but while I'd agree that Croft was progressively more played up as a sex symbol in the marketing of the games, and that there was a lot of rule 34ing of the character, I don't think it can be said that gameplay played no part, or even a non-significant part, in the game's success. You don't sell 7 million copies of a game in 1996 without that game actually having some appeal beyond ogling polygons. It was also a really good game, for its time, and has been hugely influential on the genre.
And, contrariwise, sales didn't drop because Lara's character model was slimmed down, but because the original Core team burned out making four sequels in four years, and the diminishing return was compounded by the last Core Design game, Angel of Darkness having a lengthy and complicated development process and finally being a stinker when it came out. In fact, the 2013 reboot, in which Croft is younger and distinctly less busty, is still the best-selling Tomb Raider game of all time (although of course it's in a far larger, if also far more crowded, market).
You can certainly sell games on the promise of digital breasts alone (or, these days, the promise of digital breasts and the pleasurable sensation of sticking it to the SJWs who don't want you to enjoy digital breasts), but it's a pretty niche market.
posted by running order squabble fest at 1:11 PM on April 3, 2016 [3 favorites]
It doesn't look like the previous episode ever got posted, so: Feminist Frequency Video Dissects the Trope of “Strategic Butt Coverings”
posted by homunculus at 1:28 PM on April 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 1:28 PM on April 3, 2016 [4 favorites]
Right, the Tomb Raider reboot sold like hotcakes; something like five million copies in six months. EIDOS simply had crazy unrealistic expectations. If the name of your game isn't "Call of Duty" and you are disappointed with sales of 5 million units in 6 months you need to rethink your life.
posted by Justinian at 1:30 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 1:30 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
One thing I didn't realize till after watching this video: there is a lot more on Feminist Frequency than the "tropes in video games" series. Reviews, for instance! Here's a review of Rise of the Tomb Raider (not by Sarkeesian). Here's one of Beyond Good & Evil (this one by Sarkeesian... spoiler, she likes it).
One of Sarkeesian's points in this video is that the objectification isn't necessary, and I think that applies to the Tomb Raider games. I have a male gaze myself and I'm not afraid to use it, but I play the TR games to navigate improbable ruins and shoot arrows at cultists.
posted by zompist at 1:41 PM on April 3, 2016
One of Sarkeesian's points in this video is that the objectification isn't necessary, and I think that applies to the Tomb Raider games. I have a male gaze myself and I'm not afraid to use it, but I play the TR games to navigate improbable ruins and shoot arrows at cultists.
posted by zompist at 1:41 PM on April 3, 2016
Ok so hyperbole to prove a point didn't work today
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:41 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:41 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Accidentally stated the reboot was from 2009 in my comment earlier, which is incorrect it's 2013. Apologies for the error.
posted by Fizz at 3:28 PM on April 3, 2016
posted by Fizz at 3:28 PM on April 3, 2016
As an aside - that review of Rise of the Tomb Raider is by Carolyn Petit, who also reviewed the new Hitman game on video for Feminist Frequency, and is part of Femfreq's editorial staff.
Petit, in one of those laugh-or-you'll-cry moments, was subjected to a ton of abuse, much of it transphobic, and a petition to get her fired, because she only gave Grand Theft Auto V 9 out of 10..
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:46 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
Petit, in one of those laugh-or-you'll-cry moments, was subjected to a ton of abuse, much of it transphobic, and a petition to get her fired, because she only gave Grand Theft Auto V 9 out of 10..
posted by running order squabble fest at 5:46 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I am in my mid 40s, and I was raised on Atari 2600 and arcade games. When Tomb Raider was released, I was mid 20s, and pretty much the only video games my friends & I played were the various Mario Bros & World games on rented consoles. I remember seeing promos for TR and the screencaps and video all featured Lara Croft, and it was honestly jarring, turning an adventure game into an excuse to leer at the Barbie-doll shaped avatar. I mean it seemed lurid and gross, like this was meant to appeal to 12 year old boys, and it was obviously not for me. It seemed like a pretty big shift in terms of making T&A acceptable in video games which aren't otherwise sexual. It helped normalize the idea that women in games were sexualized and objectified, and always for the use and amusement of men, who were presumed to be holding the game controllers. So, I'm grateful for Sarkeesian, and I wish I had done more to explore feminist critiques in the '90s.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:01 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by krinklyfig at 6:01 PM on April 3, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think this video series (By, Metafilters own Peevish) does a really good job of deconstructing it.
I had no idea that video was done by a mefite! I link to it all. the. time. It's description of the just world "bubble" works well for various other discriminatory mindsets as a nice concise way of describing why people are so hell bent on racism being dead as well.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:01 AM on April 4, 2016
I had no idea that video was done by a mefite! I link to it all. the. time. It's description of the just world "bubble" works well for various other discriminatory mindsets as a nice concise way of describing why people are so hell bent on racism being dead as well.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 9:01 AM on April 4, 2016
In other GamerGate news: Baldur’s Gate: Siege of Dragonspear Expansion Earns Ire of Gamers Angry at “SJW Issues” and Trans Inclusion
posted by homunculus at 8:35 PM on April 5, 2016
posted by homunculus at 8:35 PM on April 5, 2016
RobotHero: "I think the value of criticism doesn't rest solely in whether it changes the thing being criticised."
Something I just read expresses some similar thoughts very well.
Something I just read expresses some similar thoughts very well.
The job of criticism isn’t to interrupt or encourage commercial prospects. (“Batman vs Superman smashes Box Office, despite critic complaints!”) Criticism should push our imagination and help us understand what is actually possible in art and, I’d argue, even what is moral.posted by RobotHero at 9:45 AM on April 22, 2016
And homunculus, I'm not blaming you, but I'm vaguely annoyed at how Sarkeesian releasing a video has to be followed up with "other GamerGate news." Imagine if every time Jodie Foster did something we had to check in with John Hinckley Jr. Or every time there's an advance in gay rights we have to see what Westboro Baptist Church has to say about it. These aren't perfect analogies; Gamergate is more widespread, but I still worry whether we compound the problem by reinforcing this association between Sarkeesian and Gamergate.
posted by RobotHero at 9:45 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by RobotHero at 9:45 AM on April 22, 2016
Fair enough, RobotHero. I posted it because I assume people in this thread would be interested in it as well (as I would have been if someone else had posted it,) but I totally see your point about reinforcing the association between Sarkeesian and Gamergate, so I'll desist.
posted by homunculus at 11:45 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by homunculus at 11:45 AM on April 22, 2016
It's not like you were the first to bring up Gamergate in the thread, and Gamergate is relevant to the culture around video games and doing feminist criticism of games. It was just the phrase "other GamerGate news" so perfectly fit something that has been bothering me.
posted by RobotHero at 11:55 AM on April 22, 2016
posted by RobotHero at 11:55 AM on April 22, 2016
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posted by danb at 12:38 PM on April 2, 2016 [5 favorites]