"Some rappers can't ride bikes 'cause they can't handle bars."
May 19, 2016 7:38 AM Subscribe
How some of the greatest rappers make rhymes is an impressive video from Vox that explains how the best artists manipulate rhymes, beats, and motifs in exciting ways.
Also Vox: Watch: Daveed Diggs thinks his Hamilton rap is “medium fast.” Here’s what fast-fast looks like.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:47 AM on May 19, 2016
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 7:47 AM on May 19, 2016
I could have done without the breathless adulation angle, but the analysis and visual aids are super helpful. It is also refreshing to see rap given the same level of analytical treatment - including its own meta lexicon - that classical Western music has gotten.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:59 AM on May 19, 2016
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:59 AM on May 19, 2016
Rap explained for middle-aged liberal-arts-educated white-guys like me! I'm only half kidding here, I think this video was great. I'm not an idiot, I've listened to a bunch of rap, but not enough that I really understand it. Seeing it precisely and visually deconstructed like this is really helpful to me. Particularly Biggie. The guy died nearly 20 years ago and I still don't feel like I've ever really understood what the hell he was doing to make his poetry so amazing. Seeing it spelled out in this format taught me something.
To grumpybear69's comment, I'm not sure rap needs analytical treatment; plenty of folks understand rap and produce rap without needing to laboriously spell out the iambs and trochees (although bless Vox for not busting that terminology out.) But for me it helps.
posted by Nelson at 8:01 AM on May 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
To grumpybear69's comment, I'm not sure rap needs analytical treatment; plenty of folks understand rap and produce rap without needing to laboriously spell out the iambs and trochees (although bless Vox for not busting that terminology out.) But for me it helps.
posted by Nelson at 8:01 AM on May 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
There's a great book by Adam Bradley called Book of Rhymes: A Poetics of Hip Hop that talks about rap music in terms of its poetic craft.
posted by goatdog at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by goatdog at 8:09 AM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
This has given me a reason to listen to MF DOOM which I have so far ignored. However I don't want rap to become jazz (or for that matter rock and roll) where the music people want to listen and dance to is derided and music becomes solely recognized for its cerebral value that way an artform dies. Initially I have to dismiss rap analysis for their dismissal of Lil Wayne they probably don't get southern rap and by extension him. They are probably doing analysis of solely percussive elements when with the shift to southern wrap melodic and harmonic extensions of the backing song are just as common as percussive ones. Even more so with trap. I admit their analysis is more sophisticated than mine but its dated.
posted by Rubbstone at 8:15 AM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Rubbstone at 8:15 AM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
To grumpybear69's comment, I'm not sure rap needs analytical treatment; plenty of folks understand rap and produce rap without needing to laboriously spell out the iambs and trochees
No art form requires analysis - but the existence of the analysis is indicative of respect. That's what I like about it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:36 AM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
No art form requires analysis - but the existence of the analysis is indicative of respect. That's what I like about it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:36 AM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I loved the video, both the analysis and graphics, but I had to break out a dictionary to see that apparently "motive" is now apparently an acceptable spelling of "motif." My high school Music Composition teacher would be so sad.
posted by Kortney at 9:09 AM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Kortney at 9:09 AM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reminds me of this great video that analyzes Eminem's rap style (and some other musicians), and specifically his use of rhyme scheme.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 9:12 AM on May 19, 2016
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 9:12 AM on May 19, 2016
"Yo, go get your ticket, your seats snacks and beverages
While we get wicked all in your brain cracks and crevaces"
- Jurassic 5, Great Expectations
Those two lines alone are pure poetry.
posted by prepmonkey at 9:13 AM on May 19, 2016
While we get wicked all in your brain cracks and crevaces"
- Jurassic 5, Great Expectations
Those two lines alone are pure poetry.
posted by prepmonkey at 9:13 AM on May 19, 2016
Aaaaaaand now I have to go listen to Aquemini.
posted by the painkiller at 9:21 AM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by the painkiller at 9:21 AM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
To grumpybear69's comment, I'm not sure rap needs analytical treatment; plenty of folks understand rap and produce rap without needing to laboriously spell out the iambs and trochees
I always enjoy hearing creative people talk about their work. They tend to have a strong understanding of other people who've worked in their field, and how they relate to that history, and a strong understanding of what it is they are doing in their own work. It's not "laborious," it's part of doing the work well. The parts of this video where Open Mike Eagle talked about his and others' work were like that for me. I'd have gladly watched a whole video of him talking, and I was glad to see that the full interview is going to be posted soon.
With regard to things like rap music, or other writing and art by white women and people of color, there's often this dismissive idea by white-dominated establishment figures that the work is "naive," that the artists aren't in control of what they're doing, that anything that is recognizably good from the point of view of that establishment is accidental, or stolen, or an anomaly. Respectful critical analysis is one way to counter that bias, to show that these artists know what they're doing and are in control of it, and that they are working within an art form that has its own well-developed standards and expectations.
Also, as someone who loves poetry and enjoys scansion—really close analysis of the rhythms of a poem—I can attest that doing this kind of work isn't "laborious." It's joyful. And it's a tool for sharing the wonder you feel when an artist you appreciate does something especially well.
I have a very limited aesthetic appreciation for rap music. Which is a fancy way of saying I don't like it much. But thanks to things like this video, I have a healthy respect for it and a great appreciation for the virtuosity of the rhythms and word play.
posted by not that girl at 9:39 AM on May 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
I always enjoy hearing creative people talk about their work. They tend to have a strong understanding of other people who've worked in their field, and how they relate to that history, and a strong understanding of what it is they are doing in their own work. It's not "laborious," it's part of doing the work well. The parts of this video where Open Mike Eagle talked about his and others' work were like that for me. I'd have gladly watched a whole video of him talking, and I was glad to see that the full interview is going to be posted soon.
With regard to things like rap music, or other writing and art by white women and people of color, there's often this dismissive idea by white-dominated establishment figures that the work is "naive," that the artists aren't in control of what they're doing, that anything that is recognizably good from the point of view of that establishment is accidental, or stolen, or an anomaly. Respectful critical analysis is one way to counter that bias, to show that these artists know what they're doing and are in control of it, and that they are working within an art form that has its own well-developed standards and expectations.
Also, as someone who loves poetry and enjoys scansion—really close analysis of the rhythms of a poem—I can attest that doing this kind of work isn't "laborious." It's joyful. And it's a tool for sharing the wonder you feel when an artist you appreciate does something especially well.
I have a very limited aesthetic appreciation for rap music. Which is a fancy way of saying I don't like it much. But thanks to things like this video, I have a healthy respect for it and a great appreciation for the virtuosity of the rhythms and word play.
posted by not that girl at 9:39 AM on May 19, 2016 [7 favorites]
This has given me a reason to listen to MF DOOM which I have so far ignored
This guy has so many good one-liners it's absurd. I still pick out jokes I missed like 10 years later. The deadpan delivery just kills me.
posted by Hoopo at 9:45 AM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
This guy has so many good one-liners it's absurd. I still pick out jokes I missed like 10 years later. The deadpan delivery just kills me.
posted by Hoopo at 9:45 AM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Looking forward to watching when I get off work. Wanted to highlight Rubbstone's point:
However I don't want rap to become jazz (or for that matter rock and roll) where the music people want to listen and dance to is derided and music becomes solely recognized for its cerebral value that way an artform dies. Initially I have to dismiss rap analysis for their dismissal of Lil Wayne they probably don't get southern rap and by extension him. They are probably doing analysis of solely percussive elements when with the shift to southern wrap melodic and harmonic extensions of the backing song are just as common as percussive ones. Even more so with trap. I admit their analysis is more sophisticated than mine but its dated.
Agreed that this has, at least historically, been a huge problem in rap scholarship. Most often it's the rap that fits easily into more conventional (I might even argue Eurocentric?) aesthetic categories that gets celebrated and analyzed, with the implicit assumption that rap forms that don't fit into those molds - usually rap from the South, or rap that is commercially popular - are somehow less than. In the great Lil Wayne documentary Tha Carter, Wayne actually walks out on a journalist who tries asking him about how "jazz" has influenced his "poetry." Wayne's response:
"No I don't want to do poetry, I'm not into poetry, this interview is with a rapper," Wayne tells the reporter in the film before demanding the writer be ejected from the room.
And I get it! Obviously useful comparisons can be drawn but rap also deserves to be understood on its own terms. I also think this is what Nelson is getting at upthread.
posted by black_lizard at 9:52 AM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
However I don't want rap to become jazz (or for that matter rock and roll) where the music people want to listen and dance to is derided and music becomes solely recognized for its cerebral value that way an artform dies. Initially I have to dismiss rap analysis for their dismissal of Lil Wayne they probably don't get southern rap and by extension him. They are probably doing analysis of solely percussive elements when with the shift to southern wrap melodic and harmonic extensions of the backing song are just as common as percussive ones. Even more so with trap. I admit their analysis is more sophisticated than mine but its dated.
Agreed that this has, at least historically, been a huge problem in rap scholarship. Most often it's the rap that fits easily into more conventional (I might even argue Eurocentric?) aesthetic categories that gets celebrated and analyzed, with the implicit assumption that rap forms that don't fit into those molds - usually rap from the South, or rap that is commercially popular - are somehow less than. In the great Lil Wayne documentary Tha Carter, Wayne actually walks out on a journalist who tries asking him about how "jazz" has influenced his "poetry." Wayne's response:
"No I don't want to do poetry, I'm not into poetry, this interview is with a rapper," Wayne tells the reporter in the film before demanding the writer be ejected from the room.
And I get it! Obviously useful comparisons can be drawn but rap also deserves to be understood on its own terms. I also think this is what Nelson is getting at upthread.
posted by black_lizard at 9:52 AM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Relatedly, my GF's daughter had state testing yesterday (Smarter Balanced, 11th grade), and one of her essay questions was about rap as poetry, which she was kind of bummed about because she doesn't listen to rap at all (well, except when I have some on). I wish I could send this back in time so she could watch it.
posted by Huck500 at 10:52 AM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Huck500 at 10:52 AM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is delightful and along the same lines as the recent adding of hip hop mixtapes to archive.org. Simple acts of respect towards the genre.
But it’s not about my personal preferences in music – it’s about the fact this whole set of material has meaning, reality and relevance to many, many people.
http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/4979
posted by mnsc at 1:19 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
But it’s not about my personal preferences in music – it’s about the fact this whole set of material has meaning, reality and relevance to many, many people.
http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/4979
posted by mnsc at 1:19 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
It started out really cringeworthy, but got better. There are numerous incorrect lyrics in the on-screen words, but I tried to look past that and the breathless tone. I'm glad I did, it was great to watch for the most part.
The funniest thing to me is, I know that feeling of discovering rap and going "wow". And I don't think she knows she's just at the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more to see, learn, and understand. And rap is great that way, because a good chunk of it (and this is just talking about the popular stuff) is so full of meaning, there are probably only a handful of people on the face of the earth that could understand it all. As in literally, 5 or less people.
I hope it's the beginning of series called Rapping Deconstructed. Because otherwise it's like saying "Travel, deconstructed" and talking about how horses run and how the steering wheel controls a car. Like, I can't wait to see your face when you learn about the car engine. Wait until you see a jet, or a space shuttle.
Anyway, look around for that new DOOM song with Jay Elect - Light Years. It's unfinished, but worth hearing DOOM talk about Soundwave and Rumble.
posted by cashman at 1:28 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
The funniest thing to me is, I know that feeling of discovering rap and going "wow". And I don't think she knows she's just at the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more to see, learn, and understand. And rap is great that way, because a good chunk of it (and this is just talking about the popular stuff) is so full of meaning, there are probably only a handful of people on the face of the earth that could understand it all. As in literally, 5 or less people.
I hope it's the beginning of series called Rapping Deconstructed. Because otherwise it's like saying "Travel, deconstructed" and talking about how horses run and how the steering wheel controls a car. Like, I can't wait to see your face when you learn about the car engine. Wait until you see a jet, or a space shuttle.
Anyway, look around for that new DOOM song with Jay Elect - Light Years. It's unfinished, but worth hearing DOOM talk about Soundwave and Rumble.
posted by cashman at 1:28 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Are we actually stuck now with calling any form of criticism "deconstruction"? It used to mean something more specific.
posted by thelonius at 1:49 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 1:49 PM on May 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, man. Of COURSE its Rakim, Biggie, Eminem, MF Doom and Kendrick Lamar. My wife from the other room just said "whatever you're watching in there sounds pretty nerdy", she's a big MF Doom fan.
I was actually thinking about this stuff this morning, I guess with regard to The Needle Drop reviews, which are (coincidentally) how I've seen Vox media described as being opinion written as authority.
Stuff like this always gives me pause, I can appreciate the output, but there's always this trace of, like, trying to use science! to prove why your taste in music is the best. Like this thing, from a couple years ago. Interesting, but ultimately meaningless.
Its not really got much to do with HOW rappers write rhymes, but how a select few tracks are similar because they have internal rhyme schemes. The only "how" in there is the Rakim clip saying he puts 16 dots on a page and edits it down.
You know some rappers are pretty good without even writing stuff down?
The truest point was that great rappers tend to be great storytellers as well, but that's a skill that doesn't necessarily correlate with speed or the number of switch-ups.
posted by lkc at 4:37 PM on May 19, 2016
I was actually thinking about this stuff this morning, I guess with regard to The Needle Drop reviews, which are (coincidentally) how I've seen Vox media described as being opinion written as authority.
Stuff like this always gives me pause, I can appreciate the output, but there's always this trace of, like, trying to use science! to prove why your taste in music is the best. Like this thing, from a couple years ago. Interesting, but ultimately meaningless.
Its not really got much to do with HOW rappers write rhymes, but how a select few tracks are similar because they have internal rhyme schemes. The only "how" in there is the Rakim clip saying he puts 16 dots on a page and edits it down.
You know some rappers are pretty good without even writing stuff down?
The truest point was that great rappers tend to be great storytellers as well, but that's a skill that doesn't necessarily correlate with speed or the number of switch-ups.
posted by lkc at 4:37 PM on May 19, 2016
Oh, and here's a nice little analysis of Shakey Dog by Ghostface. The song itself is impressive, stories-within-stories in a single verse, this goes into some depth about that.
posted by lkc at 4:40 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by lkc at 4:40 PM on May 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Loved the simple yet super effective visualizations of the beats and rhymes.
Also the other amazing thing about Doom is that he's prolific as a producer too. He makes his own backing tracks as well as those for friends and label mates. Super talented guy! I think his productions are partly responsible for the modern style of looping beats where the kicks and snares are a little offbeat to make a looser feel. Started back with J Dilla, but Doom took it even looser and his rapping style accentuates it even more.
posted by p3t3 at 5:05 PM on May 19, 2016
Also the other amazing thing about Doom is that he's prolific as a producer too. He makes his own backing tracks as well as those for friends and label mates. Super talented guy! I think his productions are partly responsible for the modern style of looping beats where the kicks and snares are a little offbeat to make a looser feel. Started back with J Dilla, but Doom took it even looser and his rapping style accentuates it even more.
posted by p3t3 at 5:05 PM on May 19, 2016
I had no idea MF Doom was so well respected. I want to ask what they think of MC Frontalot.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:19 PM on May 19, 2016
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 5:19 PM on May 19, 2016
I'm not into MC Frontalot. He's a little too on-the-nose. You can feel the strained effort that went into the whole setup of a joke that lacks any subtlety and is pretty one dimensional despite its clever lyrical bits. Doom feels more thematically multi-directional and the delivery feels more effortless.
I know Doom isn't universally loved though. It's telling that Mos Def compared him to Lil' Wayne as they are both polarizing artists and represent the opposite ends of the hip hop spectrum.
Personally as a Doom lover and Lil' Wayne hater, I would try to describe my hip-hop taste as: smooth trumps hard, humor or self-deprecation trumps serious, and experimentalism trumps style or presentation. Other artists I like include Kool Keith, Prince Paul, ATCQ, ODB, Chance the Rapper, ...
posted by p3t3 at 5:48 PM on May 19, 2016
I know Doom isn't universally loved though. It's telling that Mos Def compared him to Lil' Wayne as they are both polarizing artists and represent the opposite ends of the hip hop spectrum.
Personally as a Doom lover and Lil' Wayne hater, I would try to describe my hip-hop taste as: smooth trumps hard, humor or self-deprecation trumps serious, and experimentalism trumps style or presentation. Other artists I like include Kool Keith, Prince Paul, ATCQ, ODB, Chance the Rapper, ...
posted by p3t3 at 5:48 PM on May 19, 2016
MF Doom, if you are unfamiliar with him, has an interesting and tragic story. He started out at Zev Lover X in the late 80s. He and his brother Subroc were a group called KMD. Their album Black Bastards was shelved and his brother was killed in a freak accident in the early/mid-90s, he quit rap for 5 years and dealt with some pretty serious issues / demons before resurfacing masked and rose anonymously through the NY open mic scene.
Black Bastards was eventually released as well.
Doom has had a remarkable career, but its even crazier that he was doing it almost a decade before Doomsday, which is now 15+ years old. That's where a lot of the respect he gets from other rappers comes from.
I wouldn't recommend seeing him in concert, though. He sometimes sends people who don't even look like him to stand in the mask and lip-sync.
posted by lkc at 6:16 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Black Bastards was eventually released as well.
Doom has had a remarkable career, but its even crazier that he was doing it almost a decade before Doomsday, which is now 15+ years old. That's where a lot of the respect he gets from other rappers comes from.
I wouldn't recommend seeing him in concert, though. He sometimes sends people who don't even look like him to stand in the mask and lip-sync.
posted by lkc at 6:16 PM on May 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I know Doom isn't universally loved though. It's telling that Mos Def compared him to Lil' Wayne as they are both polarizing artists and represent the opposite ends of the hip hop spectrum.
What end does Lil' Wayne represent?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:24 PM on May 19, 2016
What end does Lil' Wayne represent?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:24 PM on May 19, 2016
What end does Lil' Wayne represent?
Maybe less qualified to answer as a non-fan, but I feel like he's more paint-by-numbers, mainstream, ego-tripping, male-centered, southern rap successor to the gangster rap of the 80s and 90s. I'd say other artists on that end of the spectrum could be Ice Cube, Rick Ross, Tupac, Master P, i.e. artists who really embrace hip-hop's "gangster" or "hood" image and play it up to theatrical levels. Granted there is plenty of lyrical mastery in there but stylistically it embraces boundaries rather than pushes them.
Doom end of spectrum I'd say is more looking to expand hip-hop's boundaries or explore its weird corners. Other artists might include far out stuff like Kool Keith or Clouddead, but I'd even say Wu Tang has a similar mind for experimenting by creating a whole fantasy kung-fu world and vocabulary which was really novel at the time. Lil Wayne's idea of experimentation is just adding really bad guitar solos.
posted by p3t3 at 7:06 PM on May 19, 2016
Maybe less qualified to answer as a non-fan, but I feel like he's more paint-by-numbers, mainstream, ego-tripping, male-centered, southern rap successor to the gangster rap of the 80s and 90s. I'd say other artists on that end of the spectrum could be Ice Cube, Rick Ross, Tupac, Master P, i.e. artists who really embrace hip-hop's "gangster" or "hood" image and play it up to theatrical levels. Granted there is plenty of lyrical mastery in there but stylistically it embraces boundaries rather than pushes them.
Doom end of spectrum I'd say is more looking to expand hip-hop's boundaries or explore its weird corners. Other artists might include far out stuff like Kool Keith or Clouddead, but I'd even say Wu Tang has a similar mind for experimenting by creating a whole fantasy kung-fu world and vocabulary which was really novel at the time. Lil Wayne's idea of experimentation is just adding really bad guitar solos.
posted by p3t3 at 7:06 PM on May 19, 2016
Maybe less qualified to answer as a non-fan, but I feel like he's more paint-by-numbers, mainstream, ego-tripping, male-centered, southern rap successor to the gangster rap of the 80s and 90s. I'd say other artists on that end of the spectrum could be Ice Cube, Rick Ross, Tupac, Master P, i.e. artists who really embrace hip-hop's "gangster" or "hood" image and play it up to theatrical levels. Granted there is plenty of lyrical mastery in there but stylistically it embraces boundaries rather than pushes them....
....Lil Wayne's idea of experimentation is just adding really bad guitar solos.
Respectfully, these thoughts are are indicative of the kind of mindset I was criticizing in my earlier comment. Lil' Wayne has done more to change and expand the trajectory of hip-hop - his endless fountains of punchlines, his rangy flow, creating weird hits in the mold of "A Milli," his use of auto-tune (for better or worse) - than MF Doom or just about any other rapper celebrated on this thread. But folks who aren't a part of hip-hop's core audience(s) - or who aren't interested in learning more about the genre as understood by its core listeners - wouldn't necessarily see that.
Also, as much as I love DOOM, he doesn't have it in him to pen something as directly affecting as "Georgia Bush," IMO.
That said, I did watch the video last night and think it was a pretty decent primer. Andre 3000 is so clearly in a class of his own...
posted by black_lizard at 5:19 AM on May 20, 2016
....Lil Wayne's idea of experimentation is just adding really bad guitar solos.
Respectfully, these thoughts are are indicative of the kind of mindset I was criticizing in my earlier comment. Lil' Wayne has done more to change and expand the trajectory of hip-hop - his endless fountains of punchlines, his rangy flow, creating weird hits in the mold of "A Milli," his use of auto-tune (for better or worse) - than MF Doom or just about any other rapper celebrated on this thread. But folks who aren't a part of hip-hop's core audience(s) - or who aren't interested in learning more about the genre as understood by its core listeners - wouldn't necessarily see that.
Also, as much as I love DOOM, he doesn't have it in him to pen something as directly affecting as "Georgia Bush," IMO.
That said, I did watch the video last night and think it was a pretty decent primer. Andre 3000 is so clearly in a class of his own...
posted by black_lizard at 5:19 AM on May 20, 2016
Somewhere along the time De La came out, I began taking points off for just putting words together. So by the time Rap God came out, that was the seemingly logical conclusion of that phenomenon. Granted, you look at some lyrics from Busta & company and it's in that vein, but somehow the force and enthusiasm of the delivery coupled with the visuals of the videos legitimized it for me.
Lil Wayne is garbage to me. I've said that here many times over the years. In his heyday I would listen to the songs, look at the lyrics, and there were often places he was signifying where so many of his fans were hyping him up thinking he was the originator. Thankfully he's largely gone. But regardless, DOOM (remember, all caps when you spell the man's name) isn't trying to do what Wayne is trying to do. If Wayne tried to be DOOM, he'd fail miserably. Bada Bing.
But instead of arguing about that, I'd rather this thread turned into more awesome examples of ridiculous lyrics in very recent songs.
posted by cashman at 6:40 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Lil Wayne is garbage to me. I've said that here many times over the years. In his heyday I would listen to the songs, look at the lyrics, and there were often places he was signifying where so many of his fans were hyping him up thinking he was the originator. Thankfully he's largely gone. But regardless, DOOM (remember, all caps when you spell the man's name) isn't trying to do what Wayne is trying to do. If Wayne tried to be DOOM, he'd fail miserably. Bada Bing.
But instead of arguing about that, I'd rather this thread turned into more awesome examples of ridiculous lyrics in very recent songs.
posted by cashman at 6:40 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Ok so here is an example of why we think Weezy is great listen to Dr.Carter If you listen closely to the opening Weezy is literally constructing the melody with his flow. Like he's scatting. (The premise btw is not some paint by numbers stuff.)
posted by Rubbstone at 6:43 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Rubbstone at 6:43 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Delivery is terrible. Lets just move on. It'll be a much better thread if we share great examples of recent songs that people probably haven't heard, rather than go back and forth on dude.
posted by cashman at 6:52 AM on May 20, 2016
posted by cashman at 6:52 AM on May 20, 2016
Here's a song nobody here has ever heard. Jay Grate - Survivalist. I'm not a fan of the subject matter, but it's a near perfect song in terms of lyrics and content. There are so many combinations, so many concepts, so many awesome descriptive words, with a great hook. It reminds of when Ra says in the video he packed words in a rhyme perfectly so that nothing else would fit.
A piece:
posted by cashman at 7:00 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
A piece:
Quintessentially rawI love how it starts right in too. Straight to the rhymes.
Beef with the law
Beef with the teeth in your jaw
for speaking, peeping the flaw in your plans.
You think it's a game of chance
As if an ordinary man stands a chance
Against an avalanche
posted by cashman at 7:00 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
And now I'm beginning to feel queasy for turning this into an X rapper is better than X rapper thread, which is obviously tiresome and annoying for everyone involved. My basic point is this: it's fine to dislike Wayne or find him to be "garbage," and in fact there are plenty of other rappers I usually prefer to listen to (including DOOM), but I personally think that it's a disservice to him and hip-hop writ large to deny that, in his prime, he was something more than some generic pop rap star. But happy to move on from this point.
To be honest it's hard for me to get as excited by new rap as I used to. Young Thug melts my brain with his flows but I can't do more than half an hour of his stuff at a time, I don't love most of his production. I have nothing but respect and admiration from Chance's skills but so far his most recent tape is a little too happy or something for me, I'm hoping it grows on me (though again, his song with Thug is fun). New A$AP Ferg is uneven but thought Schoolboy Q killed this verse. Kanye the rapper is almost irredeemable in 2016 but this Arthur Russell sample is straight comfort food for me.
posted by black_lizard at 7:07 AM on May 20, 2016
To be honest it's hard for me to get as excited by new rap as I used to. Young Thug melts my brain with his flows but I can't do more than half an hour of his stuff at a time, I don't love most of his production. I have nothing but respect and admiration from Chance's skills but so far his most recent tape is a little too happy or something for me, I'm hoping it grows on me (though again, his song with Thug is fun). New A$AP Ferg is uneven but thought Schoolboy Q killed this verse. Kanye the rapper is almost irredeemable in 2016 but this Arthur Russell sample is straight comfort food for me.
posted by black_lizard at 7:07 AM on May 20, 2016
Something we can probably all agree on is how great the video for Scarface's "On My Block" is. I've listened to the song tons but somehow only watched the video for the first time this weekend.
posted by black_lizard at 7:10 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by black_lizard at 7:10 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Jay Electronica - Googly Eyes.
posted by cashman at 7:11 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
She said Jay, I'm yoursI mean the rhymes are just bananas.
I've been screaming for the past 3 days, I'm hoarse
She was screaming like she'd never seen waves before
So I gave her a boat, and an oar, and a start-
I got her safely to the shore.
She said she'd never believe in Moses & Noah
Unless I showed her. So I showed her.
Gave it right to her like I owed her.
That's when I changed from Shrek the Ogre into Master Yoda she said "Oh I!"
"Can't believe uh...It's a miracle! It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a spiritual-
Object,
hard to ditect,
straight out the projects,
He could move mountains without
Flexin his biceps
He speak a strange dialect
(I start droppin jewelry)
Her eyes went googly
She went home and Googled me
MySpace, friend-requested and YouTubed me
100,000 views of me
Building me a castle on the backs of wack rappers out here spittin that foolery.
posted by cashman at 7:11 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Sorry for fueling the flames on this end too, dangerous territory and I missed that you had already touched on it upthread.
I don't dislike most of the Cash Money guys, and gangster rap was my first love of hip hop, but my tastes changed a lot over the years and by the time Wayne showed up I couldn't see what people saw in him. But may give him another chance. I think we can all agree on Andre 3000.
That Jay Grate track is nice, his flow reminds me of Percee P. And Schoolboy Q is sick, hadn't heard that A$ap Ferg yet.
posted by p3t3 at 7:15 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
I don't dislike most of the Cash Money guys, and gangster rap was my first love of hip hop, but my tastes changed a lot over the years and by the time Wayne showed up I couldn't see what people saw in him. But may give him another chance. I think we can all agree on Andre 3000.
That Jay Grate track is nice, his flow reminds me of Percee P. And Schoolboy Q is sick, hadn't heard that A$ap Ferg yet.
posted by p3t3 at 7:15 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you listen closely to the opening Weezy is literally constructing the melody with his flow.
I think that is called "singing." (rim shot)
But seriously it seems like part of the disconnect w/r/t analysis is that, from what I've seen, people tend only to analyze the text and its relation to the beat. The tonal delivery of the lyrics is mostly ignored because, rightly or wrongly, it is considered distinct from the songcraft. IMHO this is a misstep since there is no rule stating that rap has to be fundamentally amelodic.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:01 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think that is called "singing." (rim shot)
But seriously it seems like part of the disconnect w/r/t analysis is that, from what I've seen, people tend only to analyze the text and its relation to the beat. The tonal delivery of the lyrics is mostly ignored because, rightly or wrongly, it is considered distinct from the songcraft. IMHO this is a misstep since there is no rule stating that rap has to be fundamentally amelodic.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:01 AM on May 20, 2016 [3 favorites]
When they were doing the line-splitting part in the video, it reminded me of perhaps my favorite line-split. It wasn't perfect like Ra's, but I love Redman's "Startin arsons, from Jerz to Arkan....(saw) me coughin out that dread' apartment." Wasn't till years after I heard that til I got what he was doing.
posted by cashman at 8:13 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 8:13 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
More music that is rare, because I can't even seem to dig it up on Google, though I have the mp3 - Royce 5'9's verse on the (p)remix of Dirt off Your Shoulders.
posted by cashman at 8:29 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
"If you can look inside of my mindThe delivery is just fantastic. Some of these lyrics, including in the other posts, have all kinds of meaning in the lyrics that go past what's on the screen, so like when Jay Electronica says "she was screaming like she'd never seen waves before", he's talking about his hairstyle. But right now we're just focusing on the rhymes.
It's like a monitor showing honesty
Prime time shine to blind you ebonically-my
Blurrier picture if he heard you dissed him
Disturbing mental serving potential murder victims
They'll turn you to curb sniffers to concrete listeners
When I'm delivering my absurd word-smithism"
posted by cashman at 8:29 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
One of my favorite underrated new guys who does a lot of soul-jazz flavored hip-hop is Oddisee. He put out a free EP recently, but my fav is still last year's album. Incorporates plenty of these newfangled rhyming techniques, but also with some jazzy play on the vocal rhythms to match the drum phrasing.
posted by p3t3 at 8:30 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by p3t3 at 8:30 AM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
But seriously it seems like part of the disconnect w/r/t analysis is that, from what I've seen, people tend only to analyze the text and its relation to the beat. The tonal delivery of the lyrics is mostly ignored because, rightly or wrongly, it is considered distinct from the songcraft. IMHO this is a misstep since there is no rule stating that rap has to be fundamentally amelodic.
Yeah, I agree fully with this, and my favorite rappers tend to have mastery of tone and rhythm/flow. All of the Freestyle Fellowship/Project Blowed dudes were amazing at both. In fact, a lot of 90s West Coast MCs were very deliberate about both aspects of rhyming: starting to think about Saafir, the Hieroglyphics crew, Pharcyde, I'm sure there are lots of others that I'm forgetting...
posted by black_lizard at 8:30 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I agree fully with this, and my favorite rappers tend to have mastery of tone and rhythm/flow. All of the Freestyle Fellowship/Project Blowed dudes were amazing at both. In fact, a lot of 90s West Coast MCs were very deliberate about both aspects of rhyming: starting to think about Saafir, the Hieroglyphics crew, Pharcyde, I'm sure there are lots of others that I'm forgetting...
posted by black_lizard at 8:30 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
And thanks for the reminder about Oddisee! I'm not as familiar with his solo stuff as I'd want to be, but he often teams up with another DC rapper I really like, Uptown XO. One of their more recent tracks.
posted by black_lizard at 8:40 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by black_lizard at 8:40 AM on May 20, 2016 [1 favorite]
Older, but one of my favorites:
posted by lkc at 4:29 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Two Weeks before my old man busted up in herPharoah Monch should be a case study for people interested in cramming syllables sensically into a line. He's the guy fast talkers like Kweli and Eminem grew up listening to.
My moms never walked slow
Now she smoke crack, sit back, and listen to talk shows
I hope she don't eat pork fried rice tonight
See, the cholesterol already got my arteries tight
I might select even before she injects her lethal chemicals
To wrap the umbilical cords around my neck
Shit, I'm pissin' in the abdomen
Two and a half weeks old, already thoughts of stabbin' men
Unravelin' plots and plans for thievin' and shit
Immune to the gospel, not believin' in shit
Where the fuck do I go from here
Cuz when the afterbirth disperse it's hard to persevere
I swear I can't fuck with it
She hits about two packs of cigarettes a day and I'm stuck with it
The asthmatic, internally scarred from crack addicts
Who share needles outside in the rain on Craftmatics
And laugh at it
I guess for them it seems funny but soon
I'll be the nigga who kills for petty money presume
Inside this temple of doom we throw the womb
I bloom to be emitted in june, considered a coon
Livin' my life incomplete though
On the edge of destruction, Invetro
posted by lkc at 4:29 PM on May 20, 2016 [2 favorites]
Interesting video but... surely she means 'motif' and not 'motive' which is a very different word.
And also, come on, no mention of Kool Keith? The Dr Octagon album came out in 1996 and for me, its insanely intricately twisting non-sequiturs have never been beat. I mean just listen to Keith and Menelik battle it out over Q-Bert's scratching on this little number
posted by Shatner's Bassoon at 10:48 AM on May 21, 2016
And also, come on, no mention of Kool Keith? The Dr Octagon album came out in 1996 and for me, its insanely intricately twisting non-sequiturs have never been beat. I mean just listen to Keith and Menelik battle it out over Q-Bert's scratching on this little number
posted by Shatner's Bassoon at 10:48 AM on May 21, 2016
Thanks for posting this, and thanks for all the comments. I've been wanting this kind of rap scansion primer, and this is a helpful start. I agree I'd be interested to hear the artists talk more about their process in composing.
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:45 PM on May 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten at 12:45 PM on May 21, 2016 [3 favorites]
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posted by blahblahblah at 7:46 AM on May 19, 2016