McDonald's: it's the glue that holds communities together
June 9, 2016 8:43 AM Subscribe
I'm not sure if I really buy the idea that McDonald's replaces other more official support outlets, and the article doesn't provide anything to back that up other than 4 or 5 anecdotes. If that WAS the case, then I'd love to see research on it.
Also, I understand that not everyone has the same tastes, but I don't remotely understand how you can call Mc-D's coffee 'good'. I'd sooner take burned rest stop coffee, or even watery diner coffee.
posted by codacorolla at 8:53 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, I understand that not everyone has the same tastes, but I don't remotely understand how you can call Mc-D's coffee 'good'. I'd sooner take burned rest stop coffee, or even watery diner coffee.
posted by codacorolla at 8:53 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
A related term is NORC - Naturally Occurring Retirement Communities.
Here's an article about a NORC at a McDonalds in Flushing, Queens: The Urban Home Away From Home
posted by suedehead at 8:57 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
Here's an article about a NORC at a McDonalds in Flushing, Queens: The Urban Home Away From Home
posted by suedehead at 8:57 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
I always had a soft spot for Dunkin' Donuts as an adopted New Englander going to college in Boston, but it wasn't really until I started traveling to work many years later via commuter rail every morning that I noticed this phenomenon in detail at the DD just adjacent to my station. Whatever complicated bigger-picture feelings one may have about this role falling to fast food restaurants, I'm glad that there is at least someplace where people can have this sense of community, absent other options in their neighborhoods.
posted by mykescipark at 8:57 AM on June 9, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by mykescipark at 8:57 AM on June 9, 2016 [9 favorites]
When we visit my in-laws in North Carolina we see a lot of older people sitting and chatting and drinking coffee in Bojangles and my husband is very proud/defensive of the restaurant as a North Carolina institution; I think there are probably a lot of regional variations on this, like how Dunkin' Donuts is so huge in New England or, as scrittore points out, Tim Hortons' is beloved in Canada. It's interesting to think about how these identities are formed and how a beloved chain, local or otherwise, is about a sense of community and not just individual or brand identity.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:58 AM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:58 AM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
I was coming here to say the same thing scrittore did about Tim Horton's. There are always clusters of old men at them and you can tell that this is a weekly or daily meet-up they have.
posted by Kitteh at 8:59 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 8:59 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
When's the last time you had it, codacorolla? There was a huge campaign, at least in Canada, to improve the perception of their coffee a while ago (10 years? 15?). Hopefully this included improving the actual coffee.
posted by ODiV at 9:00 AM on June 9, 2016
posted by ODiV at 9:00 AM on June 9, 2016
Where are all these clean bathrooms they speak of? Because the only reason I go in to a McDonalds these days is because of a desperate and immediate need for a toilet and I have yet to encounter one I would describe as "clean." On the other hand, kudos to those places that have decent coffee, clean bathrooms and allow people to hang out for hours on end. It seems downright neighborly of franchises to do that. I harbor a lingering, deep seated hatred for McDonalds from the years I worked there while in high school. Employees were treated abysmally, probably still are. At least these customers are treated well.
posted by pjsky at 9:01 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by pjsky at 9:01 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is totally a thing! It happened in the small rural midwest town where I grew up. Mostly retirees or near-retirees there.
I'm not sure if I really buy the idea that McDonald's replaces other more official support outlets
Did it say "replace"? It said this is happening at McDonald's and it isn't happening at official government-run support outlets. To read that as "replace" assumes it ever happened at the official outlets in the first place. Again in the rural midwest context, even people of little means would never in a million years think of themselves as needing government assistance, especially for something as basic, personal, and essentially non-economic as social togetherness.
I understand that not everyone has the same tastes, but I don't remotely understand how you can call Mc-D's coffee 'good'.
To be fair they've improved it a lot in the past few years. It's to the point where I'd frankly prefer it to Starbucks drip; of course that is a pretty low bar.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 9:03 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
I'm not sure if I really buy the idea that McDonald's replaces other more official support outlets
Did it say "replace"? It said this is happening at McDonald's and it isn't happening at official government-run support outlets. To read that as "replace" assumes it ever happened at the official outlets in the first place. Again in the rural midwest context, even people of little means would never in a million years think of themselves as needing government assistance, especially for something as basic, personal, and essentially non-economic as social togetherness.
I understand that not everyone has the same tastes, but I don't remotely understand how you can call Mc-D's coffee 'good'.
To be fair they've improved it a lot in the past few years. It's to the point where I'd frankly prefer it to Starbucks drip; of course that is a pretty low bar.
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 9:03 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
No mention of Third Place yet? Well, alright.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:06 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:06 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
I don't think it's that people love McDonald's - it's that McDonald's is the cheap and widespread version of a coffee shop and it serves people who may not have homes suited for entertaining, or really have homes at all. You can buy a really, really cheap cup of something and sit inside in the heat or A/C for hours and hours, basically.
Around here, I have access to a couple of almost-McDonald's-cheap independent options, and they are always full of retirees, immigrants and semi-homeless people.
I dunno, this is a weird article because it does not seem to connect visits McDonald's with the exact same behavior engaged in by richer, more urban people who go to coffee houses. When I go to a coffee house to meet a friend, it's not because I would otherwise be going to a "government community center" (do those even exist now?) but am put off by them or can't access them. It's because I want some coffee and a place where I can sit and mind my own business. It would be the same if I were broker and lived on the Iron Range, only I'd go to McDonalds.
The article seems to suggest that there is something touchingly proletarian about this "search for community", but goddamn, I could show you the same "search for community" at all price points around this great metro area. People like to hang out at places that are not their homes and shoot the shit with friends, news at eleven.
Also, honestly, the actual community centers with which I am familiar also attract retirees, etc, if there's coffee and a reasonably clean and quiet place to sit. It's just that due to USian city planning, community centers often are not very central and often can't consistently serve coffee.
posted by Frowner at 9:08 AM on June 9, 2016 [68 favorites]
Around here, I have access to a couple of almost-McDonald's-cheap independent options, and they are always full of retirees, immigrants and semi-homeless people.
I dunno, this is a weird article because it does not seem to connect visits McDonald's with the exact same behavior engaged in by richer, more urban people who go to coffee houses. When I go to a coffee house to meet a friend, it's not because I would otherwise be going to a "government community center" (do those even exist now?) but am put off by them or can't access them. It's because I want some coffee and a place where I can sit and mind my own business. It would be the same if I were broker and lived on the Iron Range, only I'd go to McDonalds.
The article seems to suggest that there is something touchingly proletarian about this "search for community", but goddamn, I could show you the same "search for community" at all price points around this great metro area. People like to hang out at places that are not their homes and shoot the shit with friends, news at eleven.
Also, honestly, the actual community centers with which I am familiar also attract retirees, etc, if there's coffee and a reasonably clean and quiet place to sit. It's just that due to USian city planning, community centers often are not very central and often can't consistently serve coffee.
posted by Frowner at 9:08 AM on June 9, 2016 [68 favorites]
When we visit my in-laws in North Carolina we see a lot of older people sitting and chatting and drinking coffee in Bojangles and my husband is very proud/defensive of the restaurant as a North Carolina institution; I think there are probably a lot of regional variations on this, like how Dunkin' Donuts is so huge in New England or, as scrittore points out, Tim Hortons' is beloved in Canada. It's interesting to think about how these identities are formed and how a beloved chain, local or otherwise, is about a sense of community and not just individual or brand identity.
In rural Georgia, my grandfather and his friends met throughout their lives at the soda counter in the drug store for coffee every single morning. When the drug store finally closed in the 1980s, they started going to Hardees. When I was a kid in North Carolina, it was Bojangles or Hardees. Now, I think my parents' generation just goes to a coffee shop, and pays a lot more for the coffee.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:14 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
In rural Georgia, my grandfather and his friends met throughout their lives at the soda counter in the drug store for coffee every single morning. When the drug store finally closed in the 1980s, they started going to Hardees. When I was a kid in North Carolina, it was Bojangles or Hardees. Now, I think my parents' generation just goes to a coffee shop, and pays a lot more for the coffee.
posted by hydropsyche at 9:14 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
If anything, this reminds me of how, when I was growing up in the suburbs in the 90s, all the HS kids hung out at Denny's. It wasn't because we liked Denny's, or because Denny's offered something that other places did not. It wasn't because we were consciously avoiding "government community centers". (A youth community center with free snacks would have had a walk-over, especially one that had a less plasticky feel than the Denny's.) It was because out in the Chicago suburbs in 1995, the only place that was cheap, readily accessible and allowed teenagers to just, like, sit around for hours over coffee and cheap food was Denny's.
I have had the opportunity to hang out at both chain commercial establishments and cheap independents. A cheap, reasonably clean and central independent place with food is much better and fosters much more community because the staff have a lot more leeway about how people can use the space and how staff interact with customers.
posted by Frowner at 9:15 AM on June 9, 2016 [21 favorites]
I have had the opportunity to hang out at both chain commercial establishments and cheap independents. A cheap, reasonably clean and central independent place with food is much better and fosters much more community because the staff have a lot more leeway about how people can use the space and how staff interact with customers.
posted by Frowner at 9:15 AM on June 9, 2016 [21 favorites]
I'm sort of glad it happens in the pub here.
I think it happens at both! I'm glad people can find spaces like this, even though I'd love for McDonalds to pull up stakes.
posted by michaelh at 9:15 AM on June 9, 2016
I think it happens at both! I'm glad people can find spaces like this, even though I'd love for McDonalds to pull up stakes.
posted by michaelh at 9:15 AM on June 9, 2016
Did it say "replace"? It said this is happening at McDonald's and it isn't happening at official government-run support outlets. To read that as "replace" assumes it ever happened at the official outlets in the first place. Again in the rural midwest context, even people of little means would never in a million years think of themselves as needing government assistance, especially for something as basic, personal, and essentially non-economic as social togetherness.
Yes.
It's a bizarre move in a fairly light article. People use a place that serves food and has tables to talk to one another? No kidding. The only reason it's remotely interesting is that the fast food model of restaurant pioneered by McDonalds tried for decades to make prolonged stays in their establishments as uncomfortable as possible. Otherwise you're just describing a local diner. To be honest this seems like it's just one step above native advertising (although I don't think it is, it functions similarly) for a company that's been trying to claw back market share from new restaurant chains that aren't absolutely terrible.
posted by codacorolla at 9:16 AM on June 9, 2016 [10 favorites]
Yes.
It's part of how the article is framed, they then make a deliberate comparison to 'bureaucratic' community centers, and they finish by highlighting that for homeless people McDonalds are preferable due to better management. There's an obvious thrust that McDonalds is providing a better version of something that local government and non-profits are also trying to provide.
When many lower-income Americans are feeling isolated by the deadening uniformity of things, by the emptiness of many jobs, by the media, they still yearn for physical social networks. They are not doing this by going to government-run community service centers. They are not always doing this by utilizing the endless array of well-intentioned not-for-profit outreach programs.
...
Walk into any McDonald’s in the morning and you will find a group of mostly retired people clustering in a corner, drinking coffee, eating and talking. They are drawn to the McDonald’s because it has inexpensive good coffee, clean bathrooms, space to sprawl. Unlike community centers, it is also free of bureaucracy.
...
In almost every franchise, there are tables with people like Betty escaping from the streets for a short bit. They prefer McDonald’s to shelters and to non-profits, because McDonald’s are safer, provide more freedom, and most importantly, the chance to be social, restoring a small amount of normalcy.
It's a bizarre move in a fairly light article. People use a place that serves food and has tables to talk to one another? No kidding. The only reason it's remotely interesting is that the fast food model of restaurant pioneered by McDonalds tried for decades to make prolonged stays in their establishments as uncomfortable as possible. Otherwise you're just describing a local diner. To be honest this seems like it's just one step above native advertising (although I don't think it is, it functions similarly) for a company that's been trying to claw back market share from new restaurant chains that aren't absolutely terrible.
posted by codacorolla at 9:16 AM on June 9, 2016 [10 favorites]
Making your way in the world today takes everything you've got
Taking a break from all your worries sure would help a lot
Wouldn't you like to get away?
Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody's ba da ba ba baa, Lovin' It®
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:19 AM on June 9, 2016 [22 favorites]
Taking a break from all your worries sure would help a lot
Wouldn't you like to get away?
Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody's ba da ba ba baa, Lovin' It®
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:19 AM on June 9, 2016 [22 favorites]
So is there some kind of UK Grauniad liberal politics angle on this, where we are supposed to be contrasting in our heads the bright, clean, authentically proletarian world of McDonalds and the stifling, nanny state community centers? (As I understand it, the UK has a much more robust tradition of community centers.)
Honestly, "I find my community by hanging out for hours over a cup of very cheap, watery coffee at a seedy chain restaurant because nothing else exists in my town and my housing is lousy and/or precarious" does not sound touchingly proletarian to me. It just sounds like part of the increasing Snowcrash-ization of the US.
posted by Frowner at 9:21 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
Honestly, "I find my community by hanging out for hours over a cup of very cheap, watery coffee at a seedy chain restaurant because nothing else exists in my town and my housing is lousy and/or precarious" does not sound touchingly proletarian to me. It just sounds like part of the increasing Snowcrash-ization of the US.
posted by Frowner at 9:21 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
I think in McDonald's it's easier to sit around and not spend money because it's not perceived as being owned by anyone, it's a corporate entity. That's why we feel free to use the bathroom. In a little coffee shop you'd feel rude to sit for three hours nursing a buck's worth of coffee.
posted by readery at 9:25 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by readery at 9:25 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
Some people have Metafilter, some have McDonald's. :P
Your just sayin' that because you don't want a female as president. ;')
Seriously, I've seen a similar thing with the McDonald's over on San Carlos Street in San Jose- I was meeting a couple of my social services clients there for hour-long sessions, and weed do the work over cheap coffee and maybe some fries.
Also, it's worth pointing out that McDonald's in Northern California has free wi-fi. Stop its a place to sit and be connected both physically and online.
posted by happyroach at 9:26 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Your just sayin' that because you don't want a female as president. ;')
Seriously, I've seen a similar thing with the McDonald's over on San Carlos Street in San Jose- I was meeting a couple of my social services clients there for hour-long sessions, and weed do the work over cheap coffee and maybe some fries.
Also, it's worth pointing out that McDonald's in Northern California has free wi-fi. Stop its a place to sit and be connected both physically and online.
posted by happyroach at 9:26 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
In North Carolina, it was the Golden Corral for my uncle and his friends. They just about ran the city of Myrtle Beach from their regular table there.
posted by tavella at 9:29 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 9:29 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think in McDonald's it's easier to sit around and not spend money because it's not perceived as being owned by anyone, it's a corporate entity.
Absolutely. An independent coffee shop may work for this sort of thing on an individual basis, but for exremely low income or marginalized patrons, McDonald's seems like it would be more spacious and involve less personal meddling from staff.
posted by redsparkler at 9:32 AM on June 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
Absolutely. An independent coffee shop may work for this sort of thing on an individual basis, but for exremely low income or marginalized patrons, McDonald's seems like it would be more spacious and involve less personal meddling from staff.
posted by redsparkler at 9:32 AM on June 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
I think it's being pointed out as notable and interesting because it's where the elderly and POC alike congregate for cheap coffee, bathrooms, wi-fi, and heat/cooling depending on season. These are people who in all likelihood cannot afford to go to whatever indie coffee shop or Starbucks like so many of the middle-class can and might even feel awkward and out of place doing so. I don't think this article is making a statement. I think it's more of an observation because how many of us MeFites sit in a McDonald's with friends, nursing a coffee, enjoying the company of friends? Likely, we go to Hipster Coffee Shop or a Starbucks but not a McDonald's if we engage in that activity. It says a lot about segregation and class and how we treat the elderly, I think.
posted by Kitteh at 9:33 AM on June 9, 2016 [22 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:33 AM on June 9, 2016 [22 favorites]
I suspect this article was [ahem] inspired by this interesting post from the guy who does Portraits of America (which started in Boston and was itself, in fairness, a ripoff of Humans of New York).
posted by cribcage at 9:37 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by cribcage at 9:37 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
I noticed this stopping at McDonald's while driving across the country. If you go into a McDonald's in small town Ohio or North Carolina you can tell everyone knows each other there.
posted by zzazazz at 9:37 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by zzazazz at 9:37 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
I noticed this stopping at McDonald's while driving across the country.
We deliberately tried to go to non-chain places a few times when we were in the middle of nowhere, ND. And in those places not only does everyone clearly know each other when a stranger walks in the entire place turns their heads - as one multi-head communal intelligence - to check out who the hell just walked in. It's a little unnerving.
posted by GuyZero at 9:42 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
We deliberately tried to go to non-chain places a few times when we were in the middle of nowhere, ND. And in those places not only does everyone clearly know each other when a stranger walks in the entire place turns their heads - as one multi-head communal intelligence - to check out who the hell just walked in. It's a little unnerving.
posted by GuyZero at 9:42 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
I've seen clusters of seniors hanging out in McDs in the morning for years everywhere I've ever lived. Older folks aren't going to like Starbucks coffee and wouldn't want to pay for it either. My mom had an antique business when she retired and spent a lot of early mornings on the road and she loved McDonald's for the cheap coffee and clean rest rooms.
posted by octothorpe at 9:44 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 9:44 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
I once walked to a Mickey D to escape the TV in a Honda dealership's waiting room. I ordered coffee and they didn't charge me for it. I then noticed the place was full of olds sitting around drinking coffee. Clearly McD is OK with this phenomenon. I think their bathrooms are OK, but I'm a boy and have low standards. Their food is always disappointing though.
posted by Bee'sWing at 9:45 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 9:45 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Both MacDonald's and Timmy's play this role in Toronto. Besides the communal aspect, you can go to these places late at night by yourself and be anonymous. Your booth is your living room. There are lots of people at MacDonald's at Danforth and Coxwell at 9:30 at night just being there. At that time there aren't even other options- no cafes, no libraries, nowhere else to go.
posted by beau jackson at 9:48 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by beau jackson at 9:48 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
Also: McRefugee's.
Speaking of refugees, I've started seeing signs at some chain restaurants around DC (most of which look like this one) advertising those places where refugees are welcome. It fills a similar function, but as a safe place as well as a social center.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:48 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
Speaking of refugees, I've started seeing signs at some chain restaurants around DC (most of which look like this one) advertising those places where refugees are welcome. It fills a similar function, but as a safe place as well as a social center.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:48 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
Tim Hortons'... shitty coffee
posted by scrittore at 10:51 AM on June 9
shut yer gob I'd step over my own mother for their coffee
But yes, my father and his retired friends meet up at their local Timmy's weekly and have done for years. When he decided to lose weight, he asked the staff not to serve him any more doughnuts and apparently gets quite the ribbing when he tries to order one now, and they give him soup instead.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:49 AM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
posted by scrittore at 10:51 AM on June 9
shut yer gob I'd step over my own mother for their coffee
But yes, my father and his retired friends meet up at their local Timmy's weekly and have done for years. When he decided to lose weight, he asked the staff not to serve him any more doughnuts and apparently gets quite the ribbing when he tries to order one now, and they give him soup instead.
posted by joannemerriam at 9:49 AM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
I'm not sure why everyone thinks McD's (or Dunkin' Donuts or Tim Horton's) coffee is crap. If the idea here is that only home-sourced or local-brewed or specialty coffee or similarly esoteric drinkage is actually any good, then that's kind of, well, elitist. McD's coffee isn't primo, but it isn't watered-down disgusting garbage either. It's probably actually better than their "food."
posted by blucevalo at 9:50 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
posted by blucevalo at 9:50 AM on June 9, 2016 [19 favorites]
My go to in-a-hurry breakfast is a Egg McMuffin (no hash browns) and a coffee. As a few others have mentioned, their coffee game has come up in recent years. The one by my house in East Atlanta always has people sitting on their laptops using the free wifi, and they seem to have structured the seating arrangement to encourage this when they renovated it a few years ago. McDonalds catches (and deserves) a lot of flak but as long as they keep making decent coffee and use real eggs for the Egg McMuffin, I'll keep going.
posted by dudemanlives at 9:53 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by dudemanlives at 9:53 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
Unlike community centers, it is also free of bureaucracy.
This is a weird quote. I can think of reasons you might prefer McD's over a community center, but what bureaucracy are they thinking of? Community centers don't have, like, committees coming around to investigate what you're doing at your table.
That NYT article about the Flushing spat seems much more reasonable. The patrons there didn't want to go to the community center because they didn't want to have to wait for scheduled van trips; they preferred to be independent. The McD's was within a couple blocks of almost all of them, so they could walk there themselves.
posted by praemunire at 9:56 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is a weird quote. I can think of reasons you might prefer McD's over a community center, but what bureaucracy are they thinking of? Community centers don't have, like, committees coming around to investigate what you're doing at your table.
That NYT article about the Flushing spat seems much more reasonable. The patrons there didn't want to go to the community center because they didn't want to have to wait for scheduled van trips; they preferred to be independent. The McD's was within a couple blocks of almost all of them, so they could walk there themselves.
posted by praemunire at 9:56 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure why everyone thinks McD's (or Dunkin' Donuts or Tim Horton's) coffee is crap. If the idea here is that only home-sourced or local-brewed or specialty coffee or similarly esoteric drinkage is actually any good, then that's kind of, well, elitist. McD's coffee isn't primo, but it isn't watered-down disgusting garbage either. It's probably actually better than their "food."
It has an astringent, chemical taste to me. I actually drink a decent amount of bad coffee - like drip coffee that's been sitting on a burner for the past 4 hours in a 7/11, and McDonalds is markedly worse than even that.
posted by codacorolla at 9:57 AM on June 9, 2016
It has an astringent, chemical taste to me. I actually drink a decent amount of bad coffee - like drip coffee that's been sitting on a burner for the past 4 hours in a 7/11, and McDonalds is markedly worse than even that.
posted by codacorolla at 9:57 AM on June 9, 2016
They are drawn to the McDonald’s because it has inexpensive good coffee, clean bathrooms, space to sprawl. Unlike community centers, it is also free of bureaucracy.
My reaction to this framing was similar to codacorolla's, and it also struck me that while it's literally true (because bureaucracy is defined as a system of government), it's a government system that is organized like a business. The distinguishing feature of a bureaucracy is that decisions are made by appointed administrators rather than elected officials. So in regard to any difference that might be apparent in actual operations, I'm not sure that McDonald's is functionally different from a bureaucracy.
posted by layceepee at 9:57 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
My reaction to this framing was similar to codacorolla's, and it also struck me that while it's literally true (because bureaucracy is defined as a system of government), it's a government system that is organized like a business. The distinguishing feature of a bureaucracy is that decisions are made by appointed administrators rather than elected officials. So in regard to any difference that might be apparent in actual operations, I'm not sure that McDonald's is functionally different from a bureaucracy.
posted by layceepee at 9:57 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
These morning groups reflect America in another way: they are almost all segregated. There are all black groups, all white groups, and all Hispanic groups. Rarely are any mixed. The Natchitoches group is the exception. Mostly African Americans, there are a few white men who come and go.Rural South defies national racial expectations, news at 11.
posted by resurrexit at 10:00 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
> I'm not sure why everyone thinks McD's (or Dunkin' Donuts or Tim Horton's) coffee is crap. If the idea here is that only home-sourced or local-brewed or specialty coffee or similarly esoteric drinkage is actually any good, then that's kind of, well, elitist. McD's coffee isn't primo, but it isn't watered-down disgusting garbage either. It's probably actually better than their "food."
The concept of “good” coffee, like that of “good” beer, is hard to pin down. Not only does taste vary, but most people don't really even have the luxury to develop a refined palate. Coffee is a caffeine delivery mechanism and something to keep you warm when it's cold outside, just like beer is a thing whose purpose is to give you a buzz. The one you “should” be drinking is the one that you can afford to purchase at the interval you desire, at which point taste can serve as a tie-breaker.
I dislike the taste of coffee, but if it were my only option for caffeine, I'm sure I'd get used to it eventually. Likewise, my girlfriend wonders how I can stand to drink sugar-free Red Bull, but I barely even notice its taste anymore. Drink whatever you like, but when you start passing judgment on other people's coffee habits, it's no different from going into a broke college student's apartment, sneering at all the particle board furniture, and then bringing them to Crate & Barrel to expose them to “real” coffee tables.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:08 AM on June 9, 2016 [16 favorites]
The concept of “good” coffee, like that of “good” beer, is hard to pin down. Not only does taste vary, but most people don't really even have the luxury to develop a refined palate. Coffee is a caffeine delivery mechanism and something to keep you warm when it's cold outside, just like beer is a thing whose purpose is to give you a buzz. The one you “should” be drinking is the one that you can afford to purchase at the interval you desire, at which point taste can serve as a tie-breaker.
I dislike the taste of coffee, but if it were my only option for caffeine, I'm sure I'd get used to it eventually. Likewise, my girlfriend wonders how I can stand to drink sugar-free Red Bull, but I barely even notice its taste anymore. Drink whatever you like, but when you start passing judgment on other people's coffee habits, it's no different from going into a broke college student's apartment, sneering at all the particle board furniture, and then bringing them to Crate & Barrel to expose them to “real” coffee tables.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:08 AM on June 9, 2016 [16 favorites]
When I was a kid in the Chicago suburbs, my mom and I use to drive south on I-57 a few times a year to visit gift shops that I liked to poke around in. We'd always get an early start and stop off at a Hardee's somewhere along the way, Gilman or Buckley or wherever, and without a doubt there was a table of old farmers sitting there, shooting the shit, drinking coffee out of their own ceramic mugs they'd brought in. We ate a lot of fast food and meals out as a kid because of my mom's work schedule, but I always loved the ritual of stopping at a "Farmer Hardee's" in central Illinois with my mom. I'm glad to see that this is a nationwide phenomenon.
posted by jabes at 10:12 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by jabes at 10:12 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
Weirdly, my grandma's friends used to use their local Costco this way. (My grandma passed away some years back so I can't say whether this social circle has moved on.) You'd think that a place with a membership fee wouldn't appeal to folks on a fixed income, but they all went in on memberships in pairs and justified it because it was an air-conditioned place where they could get some exercise and shamelessly exploit the food samples. I think for race/class reasons they would have felt unsafe hanging out at McDonald's so the membership fee was actually a plus. Seriously, walking around the Costco in Fresno on weekday mornings it was like a who's who of local Armenian seniors making a brunch of the samples.
posted by town of cats at 10:14 AM on June 9, 2016 [9 favorites]
posted by town of cats at 10:14 AM on June 9, 2016 [9 favorites]
Forgot to finish the story. In the same Georgia small town where my grandfather had drug store counter coffee or Hardees, there is now an Amish-run coffee shop (everyone says Amish--I have no idea which denomination the folks actually belong to, but they dress plain and drive a buggy). The last time my mom visited home, she met some friends there, not Hardees or the Dairy Queen. The times are changing, even in small town America.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:16 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by hydropsyche at 10:16 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
And in those places not only does everyone clearly know each other when a stranger walks in the entire place turns their heads - as one multi-head communal intelligence - to check out who the hell just walked in. It's a little unnerving.The "townies-only coffee shop" seems like a clichéd TV/movie trope if you've never experienced it, but it is absolutely a thing and it's unnerving and uncomfortable as hell. There are a couple of bars around here that I've never bothered to set foot in because they exude a thick townie miasma from their outer walls.
Dunkin Donuts seems to be the approved codger gathering place in these parts, though. It's centrally located and open a lot of the time, but it's also at a busy enough crossroads that there are far too many people coming through the door for them to possibly turn and stare at each one.
posted by usonian at 10:31 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
I sat a table away from a bible study group last night inside of a North Carolina Chic-fil-a, so that's a thing too.
posted by oceanjesse at 10:34 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by oceanjesse at 10:34 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is also the role that Tim Hortons' play in small communities throughout Canada - the cheap, shitty coffee has never been the draw, so much as a place indoors that people on fixed-incomes can go and talk politics and how the elites are screwing them over.
Came here to post a similar comment. It's not just small communities though, and not just people on fixed-income. On weekend mornings in Etobicoke there's a Tim Horton's full of Serbian men having a good time. And a few hours later and a few provinces over, a certain Tim Horton's near downtown Edmonton would always have at least a dozen Somali men, their taxi cabs parked outside, just chatting. It always feel good to walk in into that atmosphere for some reason. Oh yeah, and it's always men.
posted by shala at 10:34 AM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
Came here to post a similar comment. It's not just small communities though, and not just people on fixed-income. On weekend mornings in Etobicoke there's a Tim Horton's full of Serbian men having a good time. And a few hours later and a few provinces over, a certain Tim Horton's near downtown Edmonton would always have at least a dozen Somali men, their taxi cabs parked outside, just chatting. It always feel good to walk in into that atmosphere for some reason. Oh yeah, and it's always men.
posted by shala at 10:34 AM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
I don't think it's that the chain restaurants are good or tolerant or whatever. I think it's more that the traditional gathering places (libraries, for example) are getting de-funded into oblivion, so there aren't any welcoming public places left.
McDonalds is the winner by default, not by choice.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:36 AM on June 9, 2016
McDonalds is the winner by default, not by choice.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:36 AM on June 9, 2016
I am not a fan of McDonald's good at all, but we wind up there pretty often in the summer because when it's 110 degrees outside, decent air conditioning, refillable fountain drinks, cheap ice cream cones, and a play area combine for a pretty attractive alternative to giving the kids heat stroke or leaving them playing Minecraft and watching Netflix for hours. Our community is pretty poor, but all of my kids' friends can scrape up a buck or two for a treat in McDonald's. So even though it is probably near the bottom of my list of restaurants I would choose to go to, McDonald's gets a fair amount of my time and money.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:38 AM on June 9, 2016 [11 favorites]
The concept of “good” coffee, like that of “good” beer, is hard to pin down. Not only does taste vary, but most people don't really even have the luxury to develop a refined palate. Coffee is a caffeine delivery mechanism and something to keep you warm when it's cold outside, just like beer is a thing whose purpose is to give you a buzz.
Spoken like someone who doesn't much enjoy either of those things.
If you want a caffeine delivery system, caffeine pills are cheaper and easier than coffee. If you want to get drunk, moonshine or vodka are cheaper and easier than beer.
Which is not to say that people don't become accustomed to certain things, develop nostalgia for "bad" tastes, or otherwise never get around to developing their palate. But there's much more to these things than "just an X delivery mechanism." Just sub in food, and compare Soylent to, well, anything.
posted by explosion at 10:39 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
Spoken like someone who doesn't much enjoy either of those things.
If you want a caffeine delivery system, caffeine pills are cheaper and easier than coffee. If you want to get drunk, moonshine or vodka are cheaper and easier than beer.
Which is not to say that people don't become accustomed to certain things, develop nostalgia for "bad" tastes, or otherwise never get around to developing their palate. But there's much more to these things than "just an X delivery mechanism." Just sub in food, and compare Soylent to, well, anything.
posted by explosion at 10:39 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
There are lots of people at MacDonald's at Danforth and Coxwell at 9:30 at night just being there. At that time there aren't even other options- no cafes, no libraries, nowhere else to go.
He'll, I was in San Ramon for a convention this spring, and the only place with WiFi open at 9:00 on a Friday was McDonald's. You'd think a place that was a bedroom community for Silicon Valley would have at least one late night coffee shop, but no, just McDonald's.
posted by happyroach at 10:41 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
He'll, I was in San Ramon for a convention this spring, and the only place with WiFi open at 9:00 on a Friday was McDonald's. You'd think a place that was a bedroom community for Silicon Valley would have at least one late night coffee shop, but no, just McDonald's.
posted by happyroach at 10:41 AM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
I sat a table away from a bible study group last night inside of a North Carolina Chic-fil-a, so that's a thing too.
If anyone finds a Chick-fil-a that doesn't have a bible study group on any given night, let me know.
posted by Etrigan at 10:41 AM on June 9, 2016 [10 favorites]
If anyone finds a Chick-fil-a that doesn't have a bible study group on any given night, let me know.
posted by Etrigan at 10:41 AM on June 9, 2016 [10 favorites]
Echoing Frowner i dont know that this has anything specific to do with McD's - i once stumbled upon a table top gaming night at Taqueria San Jose in SF that seemed to be a non-retiree-targeted version of most of the community gatherings described above. Other than the exceptional al pastor, i would assume the group was drawn to that particular location because: a. they were welcome, and b. it wasnt expensive. The fact that Mcdonalds fills that niche in most communities is not a product of their specialness in any way.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:42 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 10:42 AM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
McDonalds you can spend a lot of time there and never be asked to leave, never full of people doing working on their Macs like Starbucks, not so upmarket that anyone would feel like their trespassing or out of place. Blah,blah,blah corporatisation of public space means no town squares with benches where this would usually happen (especially in hot/cold climates ). In Toronto try the McD's on Pape Avenue on a Sunday morning.
posted by Damienmce at 10:43 AM on June 9, 2016
posted by Damienmce at 10:43 AM on June 9, 2016
I don't think it's that the chain restaurants are good or tolerant or whatever. I think it's more that the traditional gathering places (libraries, for example) are getting de-funded into oblivion, so there aren't any welcoming public places left.
McDonalds is the winner by default, not by choice.
"Traditional" gathering places have often been commercial establishments. Places like public libraries, or even Grange halls, lodges, etc serve functions, but not the same one as McDs, pubs, bars, diners, etc.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:45 AM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
McDonalds is the winner by default, not by choice.
"Traditional" gathering places have often been commercial establishments. Places like public libraries, or even Grange halls, lodges, etc serve functions, but not the same one as McDs, pubs, bars, diners, etc.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:45 AM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
> Spoken like someone who doesn't much enjoy either of those things.
I am quite a fan of good beer.
To rephrase: my point is that for most people, the nuances of the taste of coffee or beer are just not that important. If all coffee were decaffeinated and all beer were non-alcoholic, I don't think either beverage would be widely consumed. A refined palate for either one is the result of privilege.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:47 AM on June 9, 2016 [10 favorites]
I am quite a fan of good beer.
To rephrase: my point is that for most people, the nuances of the taste of coffee or beer are just not that important. If all coffee were decaffeinated and all beer were non-alcoholic, I don't think either beverage would be widely consumed. A refined palate for either one is the result of privilege.
posted by savetheclocktower at 10:47 AM on June 9, 2016 [10 favorites]
I used to see this all the time at the McDonalds in Davis Square in Somerville, MA. Especially on weekend mornings, there would be a bunch of elderly folks in there reading the paper and hanging out.
posted by Aizkolari at 10:48 AM on June 9, 2016
posted by Aizkolari at 10:48 AM on June 9, 2016
I met one of my very best friends at a local coffee shop where he and I would both go each morning. One morning, a member of one of these type of groups (they called themselves the Dirty Old Men), heckled my now-friend that if he didn't introduce himself to me, they'd cause an even bigger scene. We started talking, became frequent guests at the table of the DOM, and now over fifteen years later are still very close. Occasionally when I am in my hometown, I will still drop by that coffee shop and catch up with a DOM or two, and sometimes share a crossword puzzle.
This kind of spontaneous community truly gifted me, and I have no doubt has enriched the DOM's lives incredibly.
posted by DuckGirl at 10:54 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
This kind of spontaneous community truly gifted me, and I have no doubt has enriched the DOM's lives incredibly.
posted by DuckGirl at 10:54 AM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
and here I am reporting in from McDonalds, getting my 600 calories for $2 and free wifi. group of old women chit chatting. ubiquitous backpack dudes and me.
posted by ennui.bz at 10:55 AM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by ennui.bz at 10:55 AM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
I have noticed this with two different chains in my area: the first is a McDonald's in the next neighborhood over. It's a big immigrant community and when I stop in there once a month or so for a breakfast sandwich (don't hate, they're terrible for you but pretty tasty), I always notice a lot of older Vietnamese-American immigrants hanging out in there, chatting with each other (last time I was in there, the TVs playing CNN were reporting on some news to do with China, and they were all watching with great amusement).
The other one is a Starbucks in Seattle's historic African American community, the central district. It's near my office and one morning I worked there for a few hours because the office internet wasn't working. I was blown away at the community I saw there. People running into their cousins in the line, a community organizer meeting with community members at one table, what looked like an early date. I'm used to coffee shops these days being pin-drop-quiet with people staring at their laptops in silence, so this was really nice.
One thing I did notice was that Starbucks had gone to some effort to honor the community - the store had a bunch of artwork on the wall referring to the neighborhood's (now-defunct) history as a center for jazz clubs. I liked that - this is a rapidly-gentrifying area and black families are being pushed out, and a lot of the newer businesses are full of white people. So I thought it was cool that Starbucks was signalling that this place was not just for the new rich white people.
posted by lunasol at 11:00 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
The other one is a Starbucks in Seattle's historic African American community, the central district. It's near my office and one morning I worked there for a few hours because the office internet wasn't working. I was blown away at the community I saw there. People running into their cousins in the line, a community organizer meeting with community members at one table, what looked like an early date. I'm used to coffee shops these days being pin-drop-quiet with people staring at their laptops in silence, so this was really nice.
One thing I did notice was that Starbucks had gone to some effort to honor the community - the store had a bunch of artwork on the wall referring to the neighborhood's (now-defunct) history as a center for jazz clubs. I liked that - this is a rapidly-gentrifying area and black families are being pushed out, and a lot of the newer businesses are full of white people. So I thought it was cool that Starbucks was signalling that this place was not just for the new rich white people.
posted by lunasol at 11:00 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
It was because out in the Chicago suburbs in 1995, the only place that was cheap, readily accessible and allowed teenagers to just, like, sit around for hours over coffee and cheap food was Denny's.
See also: Waffle House. Plus, back in the day they used to have cigarette machines! So you could sit with your single cup of coffee, smoke like a chimney, and shoot the shit with strangers for hours, and not only did no one give a damn, it was pretty much expected if you were at the counter.
posted by Panjandrum at 12:16 PM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
See also: Waffle House. Plus, back in the day they used to have cigarette machines! So you could sit with your single cup of coffee, smoke like a chimney, and shoot the shit with strangers for hours, and not only did no one give a damn, it was pretty much expected if you were at the counter.
posted by Panjandrum at 12:16 PM on June 9, 2016 [5 favorites]
OK, and now I want some hashbrowns and a pack of camel lights. Damn you, memory.
posted by Panjandrum at 12:17 PM on June 9, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Panjandrum at 12:17 PM on June 9, 2016 [14 favorites]
There is a McDonald's in a moderately-economically-depressed area near where I live with multiple signs posted limiting seating in the dining area to 30 minutes, for patrons only. Oops.
posted by trunk muffins at 12:45 PM on June 9, 2016
posted by trunk muffins at 12:45 PM on June 9, 2016
40 years ago, my freshly-retired grandfather's squad met at Kip's Big Boy on weekdays after breakfast, for an hour and a half or so. They sat at the counter (which I think to them justified only drinking coffee and not eating, and only tipping change). This probably lasted the better part of a decade until Kip's closed, and then they moved on to a Denny's that had counter seating for some years until they remodeled and took out the counter seating.
And from there they ran out of places to go. Eventually they re-coalesced at the Albertson's grocery store deli/cafe, but they had to face each other at little tables and they were kind of at the mercy of whatever manager the store had, as some of them were a little hostile to the slow-moving elderly white guys who seemed to be mooching coffee though probably half those guys never finished the first cup. And then everyone was dying off or at least getting too sick to drive themselves, and he probably stopped going with much regularity by 1999, not long before the last big round of cancer. I think only 1 or 2 of his "coffee buddies" was around/alive by the time he died.
They were too proud for community centers and pretty suspicious of the burgeoning Big Box Churches ("Jesus H. Christ Convention Center," my grandfather once said in a rare moment of taking the lord's name in vain) that probably would have had them, and their little churches generally weren't open during the week. They weren't country club types, and they weren't all veterans (and my grandfather didn't like, and probably didn't fit in at, the VFW hall). Many of them retired earlyish and well with pensions and just desperately needed to get out of the house (and my grandmother's sanity was also tied to that routine).
I think diners served that community for the better part of 80 years, but there just aren't those kind of diners anymore.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:46 PM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
And from there they ran out of places to go. Eventually they re-coalesced at the Albertson's grocery store deli/cafe, but they had to face each other at little tables and they were kind of at the mercy of whatever manager the store had, as some of them were a little hostile to the slow-moving elderly white guys who seemed to be mooching coffee though probably half those guys never finished the first cup. And then everyone was dying off or at least getting too sick to drive themselves, and he probably stopped going with much regularity by 1999, not long before the last big round of cancer. I think only 1 or 2 of his "coffee buddies" was around/alive by the time he died.
They were too proud for community centers and pretty suspicious of the burgeoning Big Box Churches ("Jesus H. Christ Convention Center," my grandfather once said in a rare moment of taking the lord's name in vain) that probably would have had them, and their little churches generally weren't open during the week. They weren't country club types, and they weren't all veterans (and my grandfather didn't like, and probably didn't fit in at, the VFW hall). Many of them retired earlyish and well with pensions and just desperately needed to get out of the house (and my grandmother's sanity was also tied to that routine).
I think diners served that community for the better part of 80 years, but there just aren't those kind of diners anymore.
posted by Lyn Never at 12:46 PM on June 9, 2016 [7 favorites]
Look, this McDonald's may be the resource for people on fixed incomes, but I can tell you when I met with a coworker at 10:00AM at a Starbucks along 84 in CT, it was like an old folks hookup joint. You could tell those senior citizens were going to be popping an unexpected amount of Viagra soon so they'd be done in time to go back out for the early bird special later that night... I kid you not, it was worse than high school with the overt flirting and unabashed making out.
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:00 PM on June 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 1:00 PM on June 9, 2016 [6 favorites]
it was worse than high school with the overt flirting and unabashed making out.
All that sugar and caffeine hits pretty hard as you get older I guess.
posted by GuyZero at 1:10 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
All that sugar and caffeine hits pretty hard as you get older I guess.
posted by GuyZero at 1:10 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
hydropsyche - I know there is a very large Mennonite community just south of where I grew up in Augusta, including a few restaurants and bakeries run by Mennonites. I've never seen any Amish in Georgia, but a lot of the state is very rural and mostly agricultural, so it wouldn't surprise me if there were some here.
For my mom, who is 76, and her cohort, Cracker Barrel is where they hang out. Once or twice a week a big group from her church and some of her other friends all meet up at "the nice Cracker Barrel," which I think means the one they can get to easily and doesn't require a left turn against traffic to get out of. They eat, have coffee, and generally solve the world's problems for a few hours. I think a McDonald's would be too noisy for them.
Where I live, in a very car-centric suburb of Atlanta, I rarely see anyone but the off-shift McDonald's crew hanging out in the restaurant closest to us, probably waiting out of the weather for the bus that stops just across the parking lot. I'm sure if I was in a more walkable area of town there would be plenty of regulars there.
posted by ralan at 1:24 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
For my mom, who is 76, and her cohort, Cracker Barrel is where they hang out. Once or twice a week a big group from her church and some of her other friends all meet up at "the nice Cracker Barrel," which I think means the one they can get to easily and doesn't require a left turn against traffic to get out of. They eat, have coffee, and generally solve the world's problems for a few hours. I think a McDonald's would be too noisy for them.
Where I live, in a very car-centric suburb of Atlanta, I rarely see anyone but the off-shift McDonald's crew hanging out in the restaurant closest to us, probably waiting out of the weather for the bus that stops just across the parking lot. I'm sure if I was in a more walkable area of town there would be plenty of regulars there.
posted by ralan at 1:24 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the Yelp reviews (!) suggest they are Mennonite. The area was previously best known for the Nuwaubian compound, so the Mennonites are a welcome change of pace.
posted by hydropsyche at 1:35 PM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 1:35 PM on June 9, 2016 [2 favorites]
The late lamented Jewish deli, mostly in NY, served a similar purpose, ie, to have a place where one could meet up with fellow Jews outside the home and without the rigors of a religious gathering, as in a synagogue. For others, the gathering spot might be a local bar, a neighborhood joint. What a place is like and who goes to it is a social marker, a class thing, and one who hangs
in Starbucks feels he or she "belongs," and those at Mickey D's, feel at home there. But the real point is that humans are social animals and like to leave the nest to gossip with others.
posted by Postroad at 1:36 PM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
in Starbucks feels he or she "belongs," and those at Mickey D's, feel at home there. But the real point is that humans are social animals and like to leave the nest to gossip with others.
posted by Postroad at 1:36 PM on June 9, 2016 [3 favorites]
There is a McDonald's in a moderately-economically-depressed area near where I live with multiple signs posted limiting seating in the dining area to 30 minutes, for patrons only. Oops.
I was gonna say -- every Tim Hortons [sic] I have ever been to seems to liberally festooned with signs limiting your stay to twenty minutes. This is one of about seventeen reasons I would never choose such a place to meet up and hang out with friends. MyBible study group bunch of board gamers will happily spend six hours at the local games cafe, though.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:17 PM on June 9, 2016
I was gonna say -- every Tim Hortons [sic] I have ever been to seems to liberally festooned with signs limiting your stay to twenty minutes. This is one of about seventeen reasons I would never choose such a place to meet up and hang out with friends. My
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:17 PM on June 9, 2016
I hate bars because if you go alone, it can be unpleasant. I wish the US had more local pubs where you could go be social.
posted by theora55 at 4:30 PM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 4:30 PM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
(I miss the community center feel of a lot of old pubs in the UK, US bars are more dark holes to get drunk in)
posted by The Whelk at 4:37 PM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 4:37 PM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm writing this from a McDonald's right now, using their free WiFi!
I'm a university professor and when I need to get work done and not be bothered by people wanting meetings or with questions, this is usually where I go. It's kind of embarrassing to admit to anyone, so I don't usually. This article captures why I think I'm embarrassed: because of the class implications of going to McDonald's to do this rather than a coffee shop.
I come here because it's comfortable. It's comfortable because -- and I didn't realise this until just now -- it reminds me of home, and of growing up. As a kid, I lived in the kind of community discussed in this article: mostly lower-income, not much else to do. Before she went into a nursing home, my grandma used to hang out with her friends in the mornings at McDonald's. My friends and I in high school spent countless hours on Friday and Saturday nights chatting over one milkshake and a packet of fries at McDonald's because it was all we could afford and there was nothing else to do in our little rural town.
To this day -- even though I'm in a totally different socio-economic demographic -- I find it soothing and pleasant to do my work in McDonald's, surrounded by the many kinds of humanity that find their way in here. I like the hubbub, I like the fact that so many different people come -- not just students or professionals -- and I like that I can sit here for several hours on one small order. It's nice.
posted by forza at 5:12 PM on June 9, 2016 [24 favorites]
I'm a university professor and when I need to get work done and not be bothered by people wanting meetings or with questions, this is usually where I go. It's kind of embarrassing to admit to anyone, so I don't usually. This article captures why I think I'm embarrassed: because of the class implications of going to McDonald's to do this rather than a coffee shop.
I come here because it's comfortable. It's comfortable because -- and I didn't realise this until just now -- it reminds me of home, and of growing up. As a kid, I lived in the kind of community discussed in this article: mostly lower-income, not much else to do. Before she went into a nursing home, my grandma used to hang out with her friends in the mornings at McDonald's. My friends and I in high school spent countless hours on Friday and Saturday nights chatting over one milkshake and a packet of fries at McDonald's because it was all we could afford and there was nothing else to do in our little rural town.
To this day -- even though I'm in a totally different socio-economic demographic -- I find it soothing and pleasant to do my work in McDonald's, surrounded by the many kinds of humanity that find their way in here. I like the hubbub, I like the fact that so many different people come -- not just students or professionals -- and I like that I can sit here for several hours on one small order. It's nice.
posted by forza at 5:12 PM on June 9, 2016 [24 favorites]
After moving to Nebraska and taking some road trips in the area, I've definitely seen the group of older dudes in overalls shooting the shit over coffee. It was the same vibe as the Tim Hortons in the Toronto Chinatown I stopped in at, although that was more of a mixed group. But same idea, it's a community spot to hang out in. I also remember reading, although my Google-fu is failing me, about Ikea serving that niche in some areas. In the article I read it was specifically about being able to buy cheap food in an atmosphere where you were just like everybody else, with no need to feel stigmatized about needing to receive government assistance. Instead you were just there hanging out like everybody else.
posted by PussKillian at 6:31 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by PussKillian at 6:31 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
McDonald's has improved their coffee in the last few years. I prefer it over the burned brewed coffee from Starbucks. Plus it's a dollar cheaper.
posted by LoveHam at 7:42 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by LoveHam at 7:42 PM on June 9, 2016 [1 favorite]
The article seems to suggest that there is something touchingly proletarian about this "search for community", but goddamn, I could show you the same "search for community" at all price points around this great metro area. People like to hang out at places that are not their homes and shoot the shit with friends, news at eleven.
Yup. See also: the bar at the golf club etc.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:30 PM on June 9, 2016
Yup. See also: the bar at the golf club etc.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:30 PM on June 9, 2016
The VI for my brand o' geeks.
Around south Florida there are some Dunkins with walled off meeting rooms and community spaces.
And most of the McD playgrounds have been torn down for outdoor seating for the coffee klatch and casually/outside homed set. (The can leave their pets momentarily, order, come back out). Even bike commuters lean rather than lock their bike while the run in for a pee or drink.
posted by tilde at 4:22 AM on June 10, 2016
Around south Florida there are some Dunkins with walled off meeting rooms and community spaces.
And most of the McD playgrounds have been torn down for outdoor seating for the coffee klatch and casually/outside homed set. (The can leave their pets momentarily, order, come back out). Even bike commuters lean rather than lock their bike while the run in for a pee or drink.
posted by tilde at 4:22 AM on June 10, 2016
Canadian small town here. It's both McDonalds and Tim Hortons here. And as far as I've been told there a 3 groups. The only MDs, the only THs and the ones that change it up and hang out at both. The largest crowds are usually in the mornings but I have seen what looks like some late afternoon groups in MDs. (They usually sit at the window you can see when you drive in for gas). There are at least two evening ones that I've heard about at Timmies but I'm never there at that time so haven't seen it myself.
posted by Jalliah at 4:27 AM on June 10, 2016
posted by Jalliah at 4:27 AM on June 10, 2016
My seventysomething stepfather gets up every morning, putters for 30 minutes, then walks down to the McDonald's for one cup of coffee. His day has not started until he's gone on the one-mile walk to and from McDonald's, bought his coffee, said hello to the other regulars, then walked home.
I had offered to buy him a coffeemaker if that was the barrier; I had offered to keep him in beans if cost was a consideration. But for him, it's about imposing some sort of structure on his morning, getting a social fix outside family, and feeling like he's still out in the world. Our local senior center (where my mother has begun ruling the current event classes) has free coffee to encourage drop-ins and it gets plenty of people who do so. But my stepfather prefers the act of going and buying his coffee.
It works for him, and I'm glad McDonald's offers a senior discount. It'll be interesting to see if the middle-aged people of today dodder on down to Peet's or Starbucks when we're all retired* because that's the brand we associate with "our third space out in the world" or if we'll age into a low-cost chain with senior citizen coffee discounts.
*Insert comment about Generation X never retiring here.
posted by sobell at 8:22 AM on June 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I had offered to buy him a coffeemaker if that was the barrier; I had offered to keep him in beans if cost was a consideration. But for him, it's about imposing some sort of structure on his morning, getting a social fix outside family, and feeling like he's still out in the world. Our local senior center (where my mother has begun ruling the current event classes) has free coffee to encourage drop-ins and it gets plenty of people who do so. But my stepfather prefers the act of going and buying his coffee.
It works for him, and I'm glad McDonald's offers a senior discount. It'll be interesting to see if the middle-aged people of today dodder on down to Peet's or Starbucks when we're all retired* because that's the brand we associate with "our third space out in the world" or if we'll age into a low-cost chain with senior citizen coffee discounts.
*Insert comment about Generation X never retiring here.
posted by sobell at 8:22 AM on June 10, 2016 [6 favorites]
I just finished moving, and since all my stuff was packed or in chaos, I drank several McD's and 7-11 coffees last week. They're cheap and good. The cost of a Starbucks drip coffee is unconscionable.
All the coffee I've had at Timmy's was good, basic joe. And furthermore--TimBits (God's own donuts.)
posted by Sassenach at 5:01 PM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
All the coffee I've had at Timmy's was good, basic joe. And furthermore--TimBits (God's own donuts.)
posted by Sassenach at 5:01 PM on June 11, 2016 [1 favorite]
I think what's "special" about McDonald's is that the coffee is cheap as hell. It used to be $1 for any size coffee drink, dunno now.
I think this thread is a pretty good example of how there are certain liberal bourgeois norms to uphold (community centers are Good, McDonald's is Bad) and they completely avoid the personal issue that often the people in need of these kinds of services and spaces really do prefer McDonald's. My family has been doing this kind of extended gathering at McDonald's over a cup of coffee forever, and it's very unlikely they'd be doing the same at a community center because the kinds of people working at community centers would be likely to be completely outside of their native social group, and a lot of the people I know personally would feel (rightly or wrongly) condescended to or judged or mistrustful of authority if there was any connection to Authority.
Anyway, I notice a similar type of disconnect in discussions about Wal-Mart. No one I know who works at the local Wal-Mart really loves it, and I don't think anyone thinks it's an absolute social good, or that it's 100% a good thing that it moved into town and expanded, but eveeerrybody shops there except the out-of-towners, and if you're poor, it really stretches a buck.
And tbh it's really not the same as sitting in a coffee shop with your college friends, or going out for coffee because you just want to get out of the house and work on your MacBook. I do that all the time in my hip urban social circle and it's not the same as waiting for the regulars to show up or living in the same town for 60 years and hanging out with your buddies. Kind of ridiculous to say so!
And for Christ's sake, no one gives a shit about the fineness of the coffee. I love high-end coffee and I would drink McDonald's coffee in a caffeine pinch anytime. The working class aren't going to start taking caffeine pills because it's more efficient, thanks.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:23 AM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
I think this thread is a pretty good example of how there are certain liberal bourgeois norms to uphold (community centers are Good, McDonald's is Bad) and they completely avoid the personal issue that often the people in need of these kinds of services and spaces really do prefer McDonald's. My family has been doing this kind of extended gathering at McDonald's over a cup of coffee forever, and it's very unlikely they'd be doing the same at a community center because the kinds of people working at community centers would be likely to be completely outside of their native social group, and a lot of the people I know personally would feel (rightly or wrongly) condescended to or judged or mistrustful of authority if there was any connection to Authority.
Anyway, I notice a similar type of disconnect in discussions about Wal-Mart. No one I know who works at the local Wal-Mart really loves it, and I don't think anyone thinks it's an absolute social good, or that it's 100% a good thing that it moved into town and expanded, but eveeerrybody shops there except the out-of-towners, and if you're poor, it really stretches a buck.
And tbh it's really not the same as sitting in a coffee shop with your college friends, or going out for coffee because you just want to get out of the house and work on your MacBook. I do that all the time in my hip urban social circle and it's not the same as waiting for the regulars to show up or living in the same town for 60 years and hanging out with your buddies. Kind of ridiculous to say so!
And for Christ's sake, no one gives a shit about the fineness of the coffee. I love high-end coffee and I would drink McDonald's coffee in a caffeine pinch anytime. The working class aren't going to start taking caffeine pills because it's more efficient, thanks.
posted by stoneandstar at 1:23 AM on June 12, 2016 [4 favorites]
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posted by GallonOfAlan at 8:52 AM on June 9, 2016 [4 favorites]