humans are the problem
June 14, 2016 8:21 AM Subscribe
that the V'ger record includes the sound of banging rocks against each other to simulate the sound of stone tools shows that marijuana played a huge role in the design of that particular time capsule..
posted by ennui.bz at 8:37 AM on June 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
posted by ennui.bz at 8:37 AM on June 14, 2016 [20 favorites]
I'd really like to know what the Apple/EMI thinking was behind denying the permission to use "Here Comes the Sun." Either it was spite, or they didn't want NASA to try to sell compilation records with the song. In any case, it is nearly as dumb a denial as the Beatles got from Decca Records.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:38 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:38 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
Carl Sagan's biography makes it clear that he loved weed, and was largely baked while writing The Dragons of Eden.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:40 AM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:40 AM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Apple/EMI probably just couldn't get past the melancholy irony. "Here comes the sun"? Uh, no, there goes the sun forever. Way to make the Betelgeusians cry.
posted by No-sword at 8:44 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 8:44 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I know we can't link to but can we suggest a kickstarter for a project to encode the first year of Metafiter comments onto a titanium panel(s) in Hexadecimal, buried in a secret location with a time encrypted message posted regularly to random forums but that can not be decrypted for ONE Thousand Years.
posted by sammyo at 8:45 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 8:45 AM on June 14, 2016 [1 favorite]
Send more Chuck Berry.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:47 AM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:47 AM on June 14, 2016 [8 favorites]
RE: "Here Comes the Sun"—
Well, for all we know, NASA just said "fuck it" and put the song on there anyway. It's not like anyone is ever going to find out about it. (Anyone human, that is.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:56 AM on June 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
Well, for all we know, NASA just said "fuck it" and put the song on there anyway. It's not like anyone is ever going to find out about it. (Anyone human, that is.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:56 AM on June 14, 2016 [13 favorites]
arl Sagan's biography makes it clear that he loved weed, and was largely baked while writing The Dragons of Eden.
yes, exactly. Carl can have this totally brilliant idea while stoned out of his mind, you know. meanwhile bureaucracies tend to be more focused onthe process of the thing rather than the thing...
posted by ennui.bz at 9:10 AM on June 14, 2016
yes, exactly. Carl can have this totally brilliant idea while stoned out of his mind, you know. meanwhile bureaucracies tend to be more focused onthe process of the thing rather than the thing...
posted by ennui.bz at 9:10 AM on June 14, 2016
Someday when aliens excavate the rubble of my high school they'll find a 5.25" floppy disk buried with some other artifacts from our 25th anniversary celebration. The disk was written by an Apple ][ program I left running in the hallway for a week.
The aliens will be pleased to learn that the cumulative wisdom of a building full of 2,000 high-school students is 140 kilobytes of 8-bit ASCII text reading, over and over, "FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU..."
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:10 AM on June 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
The aliens will be pleased to learn that the cumulative wisdom of a building full of 2,000 high-school students is 140 kilobytes of 8-bit ASCII text reading, over and over, "FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU..."
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:10 AM on June 14, 2016 [18 favorites]
The article used the phrase "Trash Capsules" to describe poorly made capsules that have dissolved or otherwise turned to trash by the time they're dug up, but honestly a capsule full of, say, a family of four's trash for the week might be one of the most useful things we could send to future archaeologists. You can learn a lot from garbage.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:21 AM on June 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by Itaxpica at 9:21 AM on June 14, 2016 [15 favorites]
Sam Adams and Paul Revere
Overthrowing tyranny: A+
Picking stuff for a time capsule: C-
posted by Rock Steady at 9:22 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Overthrowing tyranny: A+
Picking stuff for a time capsule: C-
posted by Rock Steady at 9:22 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I'm reminded of Neal Stephenson's Seveneves. When faced with the impending destruction of the earth the world's leaders task the populace with providing cultural relics to be preserved on the orbital refuge being built. This is done mainly to keep morale up for the vast majority of humans who won't survive. Most of these priceless relics end up lost, damaged, or purposely destroyed once the destruction of the earth starts in earnest.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:30 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 9:30 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
a project to encode the first year of Metafiter comments onto a titanium panel(s) in Hexadecimal
All posts copyright their original authors.
I absolutely do NOT approve of including my early MeFi content (as "wendell", user 206).
I've had the experience of rediscovering a filing cabinet full of jokes I wrote for radio DJs and other attempted writings from the late '70s/early '80s when making a move in 2005. Twenty-five years of hindsight, unbuffered by revisiting any time inbetween, caused major injury to my self-esteem. They did make a lovely fire.
I do occasionally reread my early blog writings, as well as my 1999 "Oxymoron List"which are useful 'reality checks' but I'm thisfar from taking them all offline to prevent future generations from being exposed to them. Where is archive.org's takedown request page?
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
All posts copyright their original authors.
I absolutely do NOT approve of including my early MeFi content (as "wendell", user 206).
I've had the experience of rediscovering a filing cabinet full of jokes I wrote for radio DJs and other attempted writings from the late '70s/early '80s when making a move in 2005. Twenty-five years of hindsight, unbuffered by revisiting any time inbetween, caused major injury to my self-esteem. They did make a lovely fire.
I do occasionally reread my early blog writings, as well as my 1999 "Oxymoron List"which are useful 'reality checks' but I'm thisfar from taking them all offline to prevent future generations from being exposed to them. Where is archive.org's takedown request page?
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
a family of four's trash for the week might be one of the most useful things we could send to future archaeologists.
I was reading the article and thinking "Man, future archaeologists are going to be SO confused when they start digging this shit up and trying to make sense of why we put these specific items together and then protected them."
posted by jacquilynne at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
I was reading the article and thinking "Man, future archaeologists are going to be SO confused when they start digging this shit up and trying to make sense of why we put these specific items together and then protected them."
posted by jacquilynne at 9:33 AM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
If you could keep it cold enough for long enough, Walt Disney's frozen head would make a good spaceship artifact. If we didn't weigh so damn much, a full human corpse would be by far the most fascinating thing we could send.
The US can just send a handgun and ammunition wrapped in a "don't tread on me" flag. "Ah", the aliens will say.
posted by maxwelton at 9:36 AM on June 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
The US can just send a handgun and ammunition wrapped in a "don't tread on me" flag. "Ah", the aliens will say.
posted by maxwelton at 9:36 AM on June 14, 2016 [7 favorites]
I know we can't link to but can we suggest a kickstarter for a project to encode the first year of Metafiter comments onto a titanium panel(s) in Hexadecimal, buried in a secret location with a time encrypted message posted regularly to random forums but that can not be decrypted for ONE Thousand Years.
And maybe, just maybe, on some unknown date in the inconceivable future...
someone will read the posts down here.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:49 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
And maybe, just maybe, on some unknown date in the inconceivable future...
someone will read the posts down here.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:49 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm a fan of The Voyager Golden Record Playlist. It's not the perfect compilation, and I probably would have made some different choices, but it is an audio overview of the planet at the time, guided by Sagan's quirky perspective, which makes it fairly interesting.
posted by ovvl at 9:55 AM on June 14, 2016
posted by ovvl at 9:55 AM on June 14, 2016
I absolutely do NOT approve of including my early MeFi content (as "wendell", user 206).
So including your posts wouldn't wendell?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:06 AM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
So including your posts wouldn't wendell?
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:06 AM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
I suspect that discovering 2-3 time capsules floating in the void is what turns so many interstellar civilizations into nihilistic warmongers.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:34 AM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:34 AM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
Any of the various parties to Beatles litigation would have been capable of killing a deal if they thought the others wanted it....
posted by thelonius at 10:37 AM on June 14, 2016
posted by thelonius at 10:37 AM on June 14, 2016
Maybe we are, like, a time capsule floating in the void. Eh?
posted by No-sword at 11:06 AM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by No-sword at 11:06 AM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
Now you"ve got me on a search. As a kid in the late 60s I was in a pic taken for my hometown's centennial. There's probably a copy in one of the family albums that my sister is hoard- I mean holding onto. (Or else I'd post a link to said image.)
I think the pic was also placed in a time capsule. Weird coincy-dink, this little town is adjacent to one of the cities mentioned in this article. (And wait, Michigan has two Failures on the list?)
I'm gonna contact town hall back there and ask if it's still buried -or if anyone there still KNOWS it's buried somewhere.
(Unrelated yet somehow sadly tied in my mind: I distinctly recall a neighbor/childhood friend was there too, right up front with me. About 15 years later when we were in our early-mid-20 she was killed in a car crash.)
posted by NorthernLite at 12:42 PM on June 14, 2016
I think the pic was also placed in a time capsule. Weird coincy-dink, this little town is adjacent to one of the cities mentioned in this article. (And wait, Michigan has two Failures on the list?)
I'm gonna contact town hall back there and ask if it's still buried -or if anyone there still KNOWS it's buried somewhere.
(Unrelated yet somehow sadly tied in my mind: I distinctly recall a neighbor/childhood friend was there too, right up front with me. About 15 years later when we were in our early-mid-20 she was killed in a car crash.)
posted by NorthernLite at 12:42 PM on June 14, 2016
a time encrypted message posted regularly to random forums but that can not be decrypted for ONE Thousand Years.
Man, I am racking my brains to figure out a way to implement this. A key which is not available now but will be generally available in one thousand years. Like, at first I was like "use some astronomical source of entropy - whatever that's broadcasting in a thousand years is your key!" but then I was like "then how did you use that key to encrypt the message, dummy??"
Maybe the key is continuously radioed from some spacecraft that we put on a comet-like trajectory, that won't intersect with the Earth again for a thousand years? But when it does, put your ears to the sky and you'll get the key.
Are there better ideas?
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 1:19 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Man, I am racking my brains to figure out a way to implement this. A key which is not available now but will be generally available in one thousand years. Like, at first I was like "use some astronomical source of entropy - whatever that's broadcasting in a thousand years is your key!" but then I was like "then how did you use that key to encrypt the message, dummy??"
Maybe the key is continuously radioed from some spacecraft that we put on a comet-like trajectory, that won't intersect with the Earth again for a thousand years? But when it does, put your ears to the sky and you'll get the key.
Are there better ideas?
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 1:19 PM on June 14, 2016 [2 favorites]
Needs more singing frogs.
posted by usonian at 2:01 PM on June 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by usonian at 2:01 PM on June 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
Are there better ideas?
I don't know how the physics of this would work, but perhaps you could rig a trap in which you have a mechanism that, if tampered with, sets off an explosion or other chemical reaction that destroys the key, but due to radioactive decay or some other predictable deterioration, the reaction would no longer be harmful to the key in 1000 years?
posted by Rock Steady at 2:05 PM on June 14, 2016
I don't know how the physics of this would work, but perhaps you could rig a trap in which you have a mechanism that, if tampered with, sets off an explosion or other chemical reaction that destroys the key, but due to radioactive decay or some other predictable deterioration, the reaction would no longer be harmful to the key in 1000 years?
posted by Rock Steady at 2:05 PM on June 14, 2016
Encode a key based on the mass of several thousand curies of radioactive material that will mostly decay in 1000 years. Once 1000 years has passed the material can be safely handled and measured, then the mass it originally contained can be calculated.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:13 PM on June 14, 2016
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:13 PM on June 14, 2016
I love the part where in 1939 they included microfilm to be viewed in the 6000's, with instructions as to how to put it together. We have to use microfilm at my work and the machine and reels are falling apart. Nobody knows how to fix those any more and last I heard a microfilm machine cost something like $8000. DUDE, THAT DIDN'T EVEN LAST A HUNDRED YEARS, MUCH LESS 6000!!!!!!
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:41 PM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:41 PM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
My university recently buried a time capsule to celebrate some special date or another, and they had a big ceremony with cookies and allowed people to write notes and add them to the capsule just prior to burial. It wasn't being directly overseen by anyone, so I jotted off a handful of notes making outlandish claims of various sorts and then carefully printed my colleagues' names at the bottom. I don't remember the date that the capsule will be opened, but I imagine there will be a bit of consternation when it is.
posted by Literaryhero at 6:09 PM on June 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by Literaryhero at 6:09 PM on June 14, 2016 [5 favorites]
All over the backyard of the house I grew up in are duct-tape wrapped mason jars of pennies(just pennies, no note or anything else) buried as deep as a post-hole digger can dig. I am not really sure why I did this when I was ten, but it kept me busy for hours multiple times, so my mom didn't mind too much. I do kind of wonder what the folks that dig them up will make of them though.
posted by rockindata at 7:08 PM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by rockindata at 7:08 PM on June 14, 2016 [4 favorites]
rockindata: "I am not really sure why I did this when I was ten"
99% probability that the answer is "buried treasure"
posted by Bugbread at 9:29 PM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
99% probability that the answer is "buried treasure"
posted by Bugbread at 9:29 PM on June 14, 2016 [6 favorites]
I was curious about the images from the voyager golden record - the copies available online seem to all be wildly different resolutions and it's unclear if that's the case in the original or not. It seems that the internet archive used to have a copy of the complete record available here, but copyright holders have had them pulled down. Boo on them, otherwise I might have played the game of trying to actually decode the images from the audio. Anyone got any leads on audio files 494-AAB and 495-AAB? Seems to have been pretty successfully scrubbed.
Plenty of other interesting audio bits listed in this index of "The NASA Historical Audio Archive". Number 409-AAA "Historical MC 68-87 contains news of the day/Jack forgetting to file his income tax return and ground checking on extension 7TRK 1/4"" sounds fun.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:00 AM on June 15, 2016
Plenty of other interesting audio bits listed in this index of "The NASA Historical Audio Archive". Number 409-AAA "Historical MC 68-87 contains news of the day/Jack forgetting to file his income tax return and ground checking on extension 7TRK 1/4"" sounds fun.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:00 AM on June 15, 2016
This is a fantastic quote from 9 Historically Disappointing Time Capsules:
Kiernan Lannon, the executive director of the town's Historical Society, told Newsday, "The most interesting thing that came out of the time capsule was the smell. It was horrible. I have smelled history before; history does not smell like that. It was the most powerfully musty smell that I've ever smelled in my life."posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:05 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Kiernan Lannon, the executive director of the town's Historical Society, told Newsday, "The most interesting thing that came out of the time capsule was the smell. It was horrible. I have smelled history before; history does not smell like that. It was the most powerfully musty smell that I've ever smelled in my life."
I'm sorry, my friend. Sometimes history smells a whole lot worse than we would wish. (Is that a metaphor or what?)
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:39 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, my friend. Sometimes history smells a whole lot worse than we would wish. (Is that a metaphor or what?)
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:39 AM on June 15, 2016 [1 favorite]
Are there better ideas?
- Estimate the maximum performance that a cost-effective silicon-based computer is capable of. (That'll probably be close to what a current computer can do.)
- Estimate the number of such computers available to future researchers in the long term.
- Generate a random cryptographic key whose size is such that a message encrypted with it can be brute-forced in a year. Use this to encrypt the key of the message.
- Generate another one-year key and use that to encrypt the previous key. Repeat this process 998 times.
- Include the final encrypted key with the original message.
Why would you open a time capsule after only ten or twenty-five years? Even fifty years seems way too soon. The mental image of the Long Island officials dressed in Colonial outfits, to open a time capsule buried in 1965 is hilarious. It would have been more accurate to be dressed as the cast of Mad Men.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:42 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 6:42 AM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yeah, 50 years only really makes sense if you're talking about people digging up their own time capsules. Digging up childhood treasures you buried in elementary school? Could be wonderful. But digging up stuff buried by random adults with whom you have no personal connection? It's not old enough to be interesting, and not personal enough to be interesting. It's just random stuff in a box underground.
posted by Bugbread at 6:56 AM on June 15, 2016
posted by Bugbread at 6:56 AM on June 15, 2016
Zoinks.
posted by sour cream at 7:29 AM on June 15, 2016
posted by sour cream at 7:29 AM on June 15, 2016
In Amarillo TX, my former home, there's a time capsule that avoids many of the pitfalls listed here. It's stainless steel, the capsules themselves are filled with helium to prevent (or slow) degradation, and the whole thing is a giant six story monument aboveground. It's called the Helium Monument, it acts as a sundial, and is kind of nifty to see.
It's actually four capsules in one, to be opened at 25, 50, 100, and 1000 year intervals.
The contents, well.... I was there when they opened the 25 year capsule and I was pretty underwhelmed. Newspaper from 1968, some letters, a few odds and ends.
The 1,000 year capsule does include something that may be of interest: the passbook for a bank account into which $10 was deposited in 1968.
posted by sotonohito at 9:13 AM on June 15, 2016
It's actually four capsules in one, to be opened at 25, 50, 100, and 1000 year intervals.
The contents, well.... I was there when they opened the 25 year capsule and I was pretty underwhelmed. Newspaper from 1968, some letters, a few odds and ends.
The 1,000 year capsule does include something that may be of interest: the passbook for a bank account into which $10 was deposited in 1968.
posted by sotonohito at 9:13 AM on June 15, 2016
I just ran the numbers, and assuming 3% interest compounded annually, and assuming the banking system and money survives for the next 1,000 years, the bank account would be worth $68,742,402,311,693.25 in 2968.
posted by sotonohito at 10:31 AM on June 15, 2016
posted by sotonohito at 10:31 AM on June 15, 2016
I just ran the numbers, and assuming 3% interest compounded annually, and assuming the banking system and money survives for the next 1,000 years, the bank account would be worth $68,742,402,311,693.25 in 2968.
And accounting for inflation, that ought to be enough to buy you a quarter-pounder with cheese and a medium Pepsi.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:10 PM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
And accounting for inflation, that ought to be enough to buy you a quarter-pounder with cheese and a medium Pepsi.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:10 PM on June 15, 2016 [2 favorites]
I love the part where in 1939 they included microfilm to be viewed in the 6000's, with instructions as to how to put it together. We have to use microfilm at my work and the machine and reels are falling apart. Nobody knows how to fix those any more and last I heard a microfilm machine cost something like $8000. DUDE, THAT DIDN'T EVEN LAST A HUNDRED YEARS, MUCH LESS 6000!!!!!!
No way, microfilm is great! I use microfilm at my work all the time, and I love it! We have a department that constantly films new stuff on microfilm because it's still one of the best archival media we have. The film itself can last 500 years or more if it's not, like, stored next to a furnace. That's not the 4000+ years expected in 1939, but it's still not bad. Plus, all you have to do to read it is magnify it with a light source, which seems a lot simpler than trying to figure out how to parse an obscure file format, or something.
posted by teponaztli at 8:57 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
No way, microfilm is great! I use microfilm at my work all the time, and I love it! We have a department that constantly films new stuff on microfilm because it's still one of the best archival media we have. The film itself can last 500 years or more if it's not, like, stored next to a furnace. That's not the 4000+ years expected in 1939, but it's still not bad. Plus, all you have to do to read it is magnify it with a light source, which seems a lot simpler than trying to figure out how to parse an obscure file format, or something.
posted by teponaztli at 8:57 AM on June 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Reading it is one thing (assuming we had the giant magnification around here), but we need to specifically be able to print microfilmed documents off of it. And between the ancient machine and ancient rolls of tape, we are losing that ability, and that is going to get us into whopping trouble pretty soon.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:30 PM on June 16, 2016
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:30 PM on June 16, 2016
I'd be surprised if the bank account even exists still. Banks regularly close and send to the state funds from inactive accounts.
And if did exist and was worth a fortune, someone inside the bank would pilfer it eventually.
Maybe I'm not the guy to put in charge of your time capsule.
posted by maxwelton at 11:36 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
And if did exist and was worth a fortune, someone inside the bank would pilfer it eventually.
Maybe I'm not the guy to put in charge of your time capsule.
posted by maxwelton at 11:36 PM on June 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
jenfullmoon: "Reading it is one thing (assuming we had the giant magnification around here), but we need to specifically be able to print microfilmed documents off of it."
In 6000 years either there's not going to be civilization which can even be bothered with time capsules, or there's going to be a civilization which can figure out how to magnify and print a small image. The inability to do it now is purely an issue of lack of desire (among the folks who provide funding), not a technological hurdle.
posted by Bugbread at 12:21 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
In 6000 years either there's not going to be civilization which can even be bothered with time capsules, or there's going to be a civilization which can figure out how to magnify and print a small image. The inability to do it now is purely an issue of lack of desire (among the folks who provide funding), not a technological hurdle.
posted by Bugbread at 12:21 AM on June 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'd be surprised if the bank account even exists still.
After the post-meltdown shake-ups, bankruptcies, buy-outs, etc, I'd be surprised if the *bank* still exists.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:01 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
After the post-meltdown shake-ups, bankruptcies, buy-outs, etc, I'd be surprised if the *bank* still exists.
posted by jacquilynne at 7:01 AM on June 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
purely an issue of lack of desire (among the folks who provide funding),
Hahahahahah, don't even get me started on that topic!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:02 AM on June 17, 2016
Hahahahahah, don't even get me started on that topic!
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:02 AM on June 17, 2016
Reading it is one thing (assuming we had the giant magnification around here), but we need to specifically be able to print microfilmed documents off of it. And between the ancient machine and ancient rolls of tape, we are losing that ability, and that is going to get us into whopping trouble pretty soon.
Ohhh, is it one of the bulky analog machines? Those things are a nightmare (although at least they aren't laggy like every scanner I've ever used). We use a ScanPro, which apparently costs like $10,000 because that's what you can get away with charging for specialized equipment. So... I do understand where you're coming from.
posted by teponaztli at 5:50 PM on June 17, 2016
Ohhh, is it one of the bulky analog machines? Those things are a nightmare (although at least they aren't laggy like every scanner I've ever used). We use a ScanPro, which apparently costs like $10,000 because that's what you can get away with charging for specialized equipment. So... I do understand where you're coming from.
posted by teponaztli at 5:50 PM on June 17, 2016
« Older Uncovering Forgotten Stories of Hiroshima | Capturing-- or creating-- the too-perfect picture Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Kitteh at 8:32 AM on June 14, 2016 [3 favorites]