"Some blonde guy in Sally Jesse Raphael glasses"
July 16, 2016 2:20 PM Subscribe
Now that the Ghostbusters reboot has finally hit the big screen amid generally positive reviews (with a healthy dollop of wailing and teeth gnashing), someone has come forward with her very own personal two cents on the subject: Violet Ramis Stiel, daughter of the late Harold Ramis, writes about her memories of the original films, her feelings about the new film and the nature of reboots for Splitsider.
this essay is lovely from beginning to end and you should read it even if you don't much care about the new ghostbusters kerfuffle.
posted by nadawi at 2:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 2:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Ah, I always thought Harold Ramis in Ghostbusters was a hunk. As did Annie Potts, naturally.
posted by stoneandstar at 2:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
posted by stoneandstar at 2:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
Harold Ramis has to be applauding for his bravery, bringing mycophilia out of the shadows and into the light of day.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:46 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 2:46 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I'm relieved that the pull quote refers to cartoon Egon, and not, as I worried, Kate McKinnon, although her look was obviously inspired by cartoon Egon.
posted by palindromic at 3:03 PM on July 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by palindromic at 3:03 PM on July 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yes, this is a great essay! My name is WalkerWestridge and I approve of this take on the new Ghostbusters!
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:11 PM on July 16, 2016
posted by WalkerWestridge at 3:11 PM on July 16, 2016
About to drag children and in laws to it, so I will return with a FULL REPORT.
posted by Artw at 3:12 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:12 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
My usual movie reviewers - Comic Book Girl 19, Red Letter Media - have been talking all kinds of nonsense just based on the trailers so I'm glad that the movie it getting good reviews. Hopefully this will attract more people to the theaters.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:13 PM on July 16, 2016
posted by Foci for Analysis at 3:13 PM on July 16, 2016
Having only ever watched RedLetterMedia for their Plinkett reviews, it doesn't surprise me that that bunch would buy into the ridiculous anti-hype about a movie starring four women. I love the hell out of Plinkett's Star Wars reviews, except for the repeated visits to the "jokes about harming women are funny" well. They seem to hold some very crappy views of the world.
posted by rorgy at 3:44 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by rorgy at 3:44 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
That was sweet, charming, yet sincere, not at all maudlin or self-centered, as things like these can sometimes be (the children of famous people reflecting on legacies).
One line that jumped way out at me was this:
[Harold Ramis] liked the idea of a more diverse cast and once, in casual conversation, imagined a team made up of Kal Penn, Chris Rock, Jack Black, and Maya Rudolph. In any event, he got sick in 2010 and any chance he could have had to participate in a new Ghostbusters film was lost.
Have to be honest, I kind of like Ramis' dream cast for a sequel better, though I would have swapped Chris Rock out for Kristen Wiig.
posted by clockzero at 3:52 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
One line that jumped way out at me was this:
[Harold Ramis] liked the idea of a more diverse cast and once, in casual conversation, imagined a team made up of Kal Penn, Chris Rock, Jack Black, and Maya Rudolph. In any event, he got sick in 2010 and any chance he could have had to participate in a new Ghostbusters film was lost.
Have to be honest, I kind of like Ramis' dream cast for a sequel better, though I would have swapped Chris Rock out for Kristen Wiig.
posted by clockzero at 3:52 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Calling the response to the remake "generally positive" is quite charitable. RT's 73% is about the best out there, especially since their own audence reviews are hovering just under 50% as I type this. Metacritic is worse, with an average audience rating of just 2/10 and a 60% from the accredited critics.
As much as I wish it was good, that's every sign of a full-on stinker. I'll wait for it to appear on an airplane somewhere.
posted by rokusan at 3:56 PM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
As much as I wish it was good, that's every sign of a full-on stinker. I'll wait for it to appear on an airplane somewhere.
posted by rokusan at 3:56 PM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
hmmmmmmm why would the audience reviews (from people who likely haven't seen it) be low? now that is a quandary...
posted by nadawi at 4:01 PM on July 16, 2016 [53 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:01 PM on July 16, 2016 [53 favorites]
in case you don't want to read the link, here's the takeaway - The movie isn’t even out in theaters as I’m writing this, but over 12,000 people have made their judgment. Male reviewers outnumber female reviewers nearly 5 to 1 and rate “Ghostbusters” 4 points lower, on average (it was written a couple days ago) - so, yeah, watch it whenever you want, but basing it on user reviews is giving the loud angry uninformed men demo more credit than they've earned.
posted by nadawi at 4:02 PM on July 16, 2016 [43 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 4:02 PM on July 16, 2016 [43 favorites]
Saw it last night; if it's a "full-on stinker" then it's a stinker in the same way that every recent blockbuster movie is - the pacing is terrible, and the storyline as presented is scallopini-thin. On top of that (and this is really strange to say) the humour is nowhere near sophisticated as the original. There's also plenty in there for the haters who were always going to hate it to hate.
That said, it was fun &, despite all the callbacks & cameos trying hard to tie it to the original, definitely stands alone as its own movie. 3~3.5/5
posted by Pinback at 4:09 PM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
That said, it was fun &, despite all the callbacks & cameos trying hard to tie it to the original, definitely stands alone as its own movie. 3~3.5/5
posted by Pinback at 4:09 PM on July 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
On top of that (and this is really strange to say) the humour is nowhere near sophisticated as the original.
This is an interesting remark. What do you mean?
posted by clockzero at 4:17 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
This is an interesting remark. What do you mean?
posted by clockzero at 4:17 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
That's basically what I got out of it. It's not a great movie on a number of levels, but the characters are fun and I wasn't actively angry that I'd had my time wasted, unlike far too many sci-fi/fantasy/superhero blockbusters that I let myself get dragged out to these days.
posted by figurant at 4:19 PM on July 16, 2016
posted by figurant at 4:19 PM on July 16, 2016
I wouldn't pay attention to any internet accessible audience ratings at this point, since they'll have been gamed to hell and back.
posted by Artw at 4:19 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 4:19 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
On top of that (and this is really strange to say) the humour is nowhere near sophisticated as the original.
we totally saw a different movie as kids because wtf
posted by Kitteh at 4:30 PM on July 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
we totally saw a different movie as kids because wtf
posted by Kitteh at 4:30 PM on July 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
I have a 6 year old so I am still working our way through the triumvirate of Dory, BFG and Secret Life if Pets. I wouldn't mind dragging my daughter to Ghostbusters if there isn't too much potty humor.
I definitely want her growing up with female centered movies during the summer instead of having an endless parade of boyzone projects so I will try to support female centered tentpoles even if they are mediocre because so many summer movies are completely terrible.
posted by vuron at 4:35 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I definitely want her growing up with female centered movies during the summer instead of having an endless parade of boyzone projects so I will try to support female centered tentpoles even if they are mediocre because so many summer movies are completely terrible.
posted by vuron at 4:35 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I've always thought the humor in the original was pretty sophisticated. It's very solid caliber comic writing and acting. Every time I watch the movie I'm impressed by the characters (and when I saw Ramis as himself or in any other movie I always felt totally weird about how kind and smiley he was, because he's so... Egon). I've always thought Ghostbusters was one of those comedies that is so crafted that it feels effortless the first time, but it's actually a lot of talent, well-packaged.
The new movie is fun, but it's not a classic. Which is fine! It shouldn't have to be a gender issue, but idiot losers on the internet made it into one.
posted by stoneandstar at 4:37 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The new movie is fun, but it's not a classic. Which is fine! It shouldn't have to be a gender issue, but idiot losers on the internet made it into one.
posted by stoneandstar at 4:37 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Saw it last night; if it's a "full-on stinker" then it's a stinker in the same way that every recent blockbuster movie is - the pacing is terrible, and the storyline as presented is scallopini-thin. On top of that (and this is really strange to say) the humour is nowhere near sophisticated as the original.
The four leads are great - - but I would have preferred to see them in an original movie, preferably one that was funny.
posted by fairmettle at 5:07 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The four leads are great - - but I would have preferred to see them in an original movie, preferably one that was funny.
posted by fairmettle at 5:07 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've always thought the humor in the original was pretty sophisticated.
"Yes it's true, this man has no dick."
"He's a sailor, he's in New York; we get this guy laid, we won't have any trouble! "
"She's a dog."
posted by happyroach at 6:01 PM on July 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
"Yes it's true, this man has no dick."
"He's a sailor, he's in New York; we get this guy laid, we won't have any trouble! "
"She's a dog."
posted by happyroach at 6:01 PM on July 16, 2016 [19 favorites]
On top of that (and this is really strange to say) the humour is nowhere near sophisticated as the original.
The only thing "sophisticated" about Ghostbusters '84 is that Dana plays for the symphony. It's a movie with ghost blow-jobs and, for something that's supposed to be about nerds fighting ghosts, still manages to have a nerd to make fun of.
I saw it this afternoon and loved it. The crowd was really really in to it. Every joke, every cameo, every throwback got a laugh or cheer, and it was good to see a summer action comedy with a lot of little girls in the audience. MacKinnon steals the show even more than expected, and through it all it I loved seem 2/3 of the cast of Other Space make appearances.
Yeah the pacing is a little off, but that's the nature of both big summer blockbusters and Paul Fieg movies, both of which can be cobbled together/rewritten in the editing room. There's a clearly an entire, elaborate sequence that was filmed, cut from the movie, and then used as an overlay for the scrolling end credits. But this was good fun and hit the big story beats of Ghostbusters '84 in an original manner.
posted by thecjm at 6:05 PM on July 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
The only thing "sophisticated" about Ghostbusters '84 is that Dana plays for the symphony. It's a movie with ghost blow-jobs and, for something that's supposed to be about nerds fighting ghosts, still manages to have a nerd to make fun of.
I saw it this afternoon and loved it. The crowd was really really in to it. Every joke, every cameo, every throwback got a laugh or cheer, and it was good to see a summer action comedy with a lot of little girls in the audience. MacKinnon steals the show even more than expected, and through it all it I loved seem 2/3 of the cast of Other Space make appearances.
Yeah the pacing is a little off, but that's the nature of both big summer blockbusters and Paul Fieg movies, both of which can be cobbled together/rewritten in the editing room. There's a clearly an entire, elaborate sequence that was filmed, cut from the movie, and then used as an overlay for the scrolling end credits. But this was good fun and hit the big story beats of Ghostbusters '84 in an original manner.
posted by thecjm at 6:05 PM on July 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I may have to see it anyway, because too many other people want to and I'm nothing if not easy. But at the same time, I haven't heard a single good thing from any real person, either, so I don't think this is some kind of sexist online conspiracy deal. Maybe I'll write it off as research, so at least I can have a proper opinion.
One thought I do enjoy, which I found somewhere on the internet and then lost again, is that it'd be great if this movie was a success, since the better it does the more likely this Hallowe'en might give us thousands of little Ghostbuster girls to go along with the inevitable little Jedi girls, and that is progress, because damn it, I am really, really sick of all those tiny Disney Princesses.
posted by rokusan at 6:06 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
One thought I do enjoy, which I found somewhere on the internet and then lost again, is that it'd be great if this movie was a success, since the better it does the more likely this Hallowe'en might give us thousands of little Ghostbuster girls to go along with the inevitable little Jedi girls, and that is progress, because damn it, I am really, really sick of all those tiny Disney Princesses.
posted by rokusan at 6:06 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I just saw it and really enjoyed it. The women are the heroes and the focus and I cannot think of another summer movie like that..well...ever. It's almost disconcerting, but also quite awesome.
posted by idb at 6:16 PM on July 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
posted by idb at 6:16 PM on July 16, 2016 [11 favorites]
Well that was a lot of fun.
Go see it, take the kids.
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on July 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Go see it, take the kids.
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on July 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Honestly - it's not the greatest film ever, and some of it felt forced; but it's a good time, a worthy entrant to the franchise, and deserves to be successful. If you don't like it as film because it didn't entertain you, that's cool - because, as someone who has seen the film, you are allowed to have an opinion on it.
If you are shitting on the film at this point, or refuse to see it because "ewwwww girls" - then the rest of us are fully allowed to mock you with even more furiousness than we have been.
posted by cerulgalactus at 7:09 PM on July 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
If you are shitting on the film at this point, or refuse to see it because "ewwwww girls" - then the rest of us are fully allowed to mock you with even more furiousness than we have been.
posted by cerulgalactus at 7:09 PM on July 16, 2016 [7 favorites]
Yeah, the more reactionary conservative friends of mine seem to be selectively reading the negative reviews (kind of how they selectively read the news in general) and can't wait for it to be the 'worst movie of the year' flop that they assume it will be based on 'all the bad reviews it is getting'. So far it looks like it will do okay.
Gods of Egypt is the big flop of the year, but they wanted that one to succeed to spite the people talking about how it whitewashed the Egyptians.
posted by eye of newt at 7:23 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Gods of Egypt is the big flop of the year, but they wanted that one to succeed to spite the people talking about how it whitewashed the Egyptians.
posted by eye of newt at 7:23 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
About the worst you can say about it is the big blow out SFX finale bit is overlong and a bit draggy and that's pretty much every summer movie I've seen lately. The chemistry between the cast is great, it's funny as hell, contrary to the above there's some bits that are pretty damn sharp and the nods to the original are actually pretty great.
Kiddo wore her goggles to the show and she says she's going to wear them every day forever now. Tween cousin who came along appears to only speak in sentences containing the words "Chris Hemsworth" now. So pretty much a success all round.
posted by Artw at 7:28 PM on July 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Kiddo wore her goggles to the show and she says she's going to wear them every day forever now. Tween cousin who came along appears to only speak in sentences containing the words "Chris Hemsworth" now. So pretty much a success all round.
posted by Artw at 7:28 PM on July 16, 2016 [13 favorites]
Otoh i'm mildly interested in getting a sense of whether it's a good movie by reading what people say about it, and therefore i'm mildly peeved that that's probably not a possibility because of the various interlocking fooforaws surrounding it, but those milquetoast emotions are counterbalanced by a somewhat less mild pleasure that this means the only way to form an opinion is to actually, sharp intake of breath, experience the art myself, just like the olden days, so,
y'know.
Land of contrasts. Might take the eight year old daughter who thinks boys are stinky.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
y'know.
Land of contrasts. Might take the eight year old daughter who thinks boys are stinky.
posted by Sebmojo at 7:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh, and Grammies Rose and Nancy who we also dragged along loved it too, so FOUR QUADRANTS I guess.
posted by Artw at 7:33 PM on July 16, 2016
posted by Artw at 7:33 PM on July 16, 2016
I've always thought the humor in the original was pretty sophisticated.
I generally agree, but we are talking about a movie where Dan Aykroyd gets a blow job from a ghost.
posted by brundlefly at 7:36 PM on July 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
I generally agree, but we are talking about a movie where Dan Aykroyd gets a blow job from a ghost.
posted by brundlefly at 7:36 PM on July 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
"Yes it's true, this man has no dick."
By "sophisticated" (maybe not a good word choice), I didn't mean black comedy or jokes from the New Yorker. I mean compared to the way that comedies are made now, movies like Ghostbusters tend to contain adults, depict adult interactions and make adult jokes. The technobabble (in this case, parapsychobabble) has an amusing, real quality. In the original, they depict an actual university campus in an actual city with actual character in the movie, which is almost never done these days. They speak to the mayor, who has the archbishop of New York in his office, and they do some political/religious mugging which is fairly adult for a movie about ghost busting. The bad guy babbles on about city codes in a way which makes you feel like he could be an actual real life bad guy. Etc.
Also, "it's true, the man has no dick" is a pretty good example of how a pretty funny, blue joke is inserted into a fairly seriously shot scene where everyone in the room sounds like they have a real job and are arguing over a real conflict. The original Ghostbusters has a comedic structure in a way that this movie does not, which I consider more sophisticated, sorry.
The new movie feels more glib and youth-oriented, which is not necessarily a bad thing. (There's probably a better word than glib, but it is kind of glib.)
posted by stoneandstar at 7:39 PM on July 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
By "sophisticated" (maybe not a good word choice), I didn't mean black comedy or jokes from the New Yorker. I mean compared to the way that comedies are made now, movies like Ghostbusters tend to contain adults, depict adult interactions and make adult jokes. The technobabble (in this case, parapsychobabble) has an amusing, real quality. In the original, they depict an actual university campus in an actual city with actual character in the movie, which is almost never done these days. They speak to the mayor, who has the archbishop of New York in his office, and they do some political/religious mugging which is fairly adult for a movie about ghost busting. The bad guy babbles on about city codes in a way which makes you feel like he could be an actual real life bad guy. Etc.
Also, "it's true, the man has no dick" is a pretty good example of how a pretty funny, blue joke is inserted into a fairly seriously shot scene where everyone in the room sounds like they have a real job and are arguing over a real conflict. The original Ghostbusters has a comedic structure in a way that this movie does not, which I consider more sophisticated, sorry.
The new movie feels more glib and youth-oriented, which is not necessarily a bad thing. (There's probably a better word than glib, but it is kind of glib.)
posted by stoneandstar at 7:39 PM on July 16, 2016 [15 favorites]
I just saw it and loved it. It's about people saving New York from ghosts, and I saw the original, so I understood what movie I was going to see. The story was never going to be thick.
And you know what was really great? A group of women - all over the age of 30, two of them plus-sized - got together and saved the world. There weren't any fat jokes and nobody got called a dog and nobody got sexually assaulted and the only girlfight was due to possession. Nobody actually sexually harassed Hot Dumb Kevin, or tried to trick him into having sex. The women never apologized for trying to solve a problem and didn't step aside to let men save the day.
The special effects were great, and this is the sort of thing I actually like 3D for. The cameos were great (and I misted up at the bust of Harold Ramis early on). Like all movies now, it was about 14 minutes too long, but I still made it all the way through, large diet coke notwithstanding, without leaving to pee.
Theater was full, and I'd say over half the attending groups included kids. The two little boys in front of us danced and jammed out all through the credits.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:05 PM on July 16, 2016 [46 favorites]
And you know what was really great? A group of women - all over the age of 30, two of them plus-sized - got together and saved the world. There weren't any fat jokes and nobody got called a dog and nobody got sexually assaulted and the only girlfight was due to possession. Nobody actually sexually harassed Hot Dumb Kevin, or tried to trick him into having sex. The women never apologized for trying to solve a problem and didn't step aside to let men save the day.
The special effects were great, and this is the sort of thing I actually like 3D for. The cameos were great (and I misted up at the bust of Harold Ramis early on). Like all movies now, it was about 14 minutes too long, but I still made it all the way through, large diet coke notwithstanding, without leaving to pee.
Theater was full, and I'd say over half the attending groups included kids. The two little boys in front of us danced and jammed out all through the credits.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:05 PM on July 16, 2016 [46 favorites]
Really great credits worth hanging out for, BTW.
posted by Artw at 8:06 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:06 PM on July 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
I would probably watch Melissa McCarthy chew gum for an hour and a half, so yeah, I'm in. Anybody in NYC want to catch a show after work some time this week?
posted by sexyrobot at 8:07 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by sexyrobot at 8:07 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
This is an interesting remark. What do you mean?Others have pretty much covered it while I was out, but: I wasn't implying the original was any sort of paragon of sophisticated intellectual humour. Yes, it had dick jokes, but ... well, 'don't cross the streams' both lampshaded that and became its own meta-source joke, so it rose somewhat above that level.
The remake, for all its fun, by comparison relied a bit too much on Ren & Stimpy level fart jokes and "that stuff got everywhere - and I mean everywhere" level innuendo. Which is fine - hell, I'll both laugh and snark at Are You Being Served? with the best of you ;) - but was … less than I expected or hoped for.
(For comparison, I saw the original when I was 18 or 19 and for a while thought it was the funniest movie of its time.)
posted by Pinback at 8:13 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best debut weekend for a live-action comedy since “Pitch Perfect 2”
posted by Artw at 8:23 PM on July 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:23 PM on July 16, 2016 [6 favorites]
We haven't seen it yet, but a friend of mine has a standing "I will see this movie any time with anyone" offer already. I think she's already been at least twice.
Great essay, I also liked his dream casting idea.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:27 PM on July 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
Great essay, I also liked his dream casting idea.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:27 PM on July 16, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'd say this one probably had great multiple-viewing legs.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Took my young daughters and the husband today. If no one had seen GB84, we'd all be raving about how funny and inventive the new movie is.
My girls (8 and 10) liked it. I thought it was a good reboot, but wished there had been less Wiig and more of everyone else. The husband thought the plot was too thin, but liked the cameos and generally thought they pulled it off as a decent summer popcorn flick.
After the end credits scene, we're all of us ready to see the next Ghostbusters movie.
posted by EinAtlanta at 8:38 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
My girls (8 and 10) liked it. I thought it was a good reboot, but wished there had been less Wiig and more of everyone else. The husband thought the plot was too thin, but liked the cameos and generally thought they pulled it off as a decent summer popcorn flick.
After the end credits scene, we're all of us ready to see the next Ghostbusters movie.
posted by EinAtlanta at 8:38 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
The remake, for all its fun, by comparison relied a bit too much on Ren & Stimpy level fart jokes and "that stuff got everywhere - and I mean everywhere" level innuendo.
Dude, the original had a ghost giving a blow job. And a helluva lot of gross sexual creepiness.
One fart joke and one joke about how bits got everywhere is not anywhere near as gross or innuendo-laden. This movie is far more appropriate for kids than the original.
posted by suelac at 9:34 PM on July 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
Dude, the original had a ghost giving a blow job. And a helluva lot of gross sexual creepiness.
One fart joke and one joke about how bits got everywhere is not anywhere near as gross or innuendo-laden. This movie is far more appropriate for kids than the original.
posted by suelac at 9:34 PM on July 16, 2016 [16 favorites]
I don't think anyone was saying the original was more appropriate for kids. Fart jokes are great for kids, kids love them.
I like Paul Feig and I fricking love Melissa McCarthy so it's not like I was going to hate the movie. I just thought it was interesting how we now think of Ghostbusters as a "kid" property instead of the relatively adult 'ha-ha a blow job, ha-ha the Pope!' type 80s movie that it originally was. I think it's great that little girls are watching the movie and getting excited, I genuinely do, it's just evidence of a different age of blockbuster comedy.
I find it annoying that the whole thing has become a war between "nerds" (who, for some reason, think nerds can only be men who don't want to see Lady Ghostbusters, and who claim Ghostbusters is a nerd movie, even though it was a hugely popular mainstream 80s movie with a positively dismissive attitude toward nerds) and everyone else for the soul of feminism, when I mean, c'mon. There are more and more female-driven comedies in the mainstream every year (like everything Melissa McCarthy touches!), even raunchy comedies contain more women and are more realistic about a woman's POV (like Neighbors!), and there are about a million reboots out there. (Some funny, like the 21 Jump Street remake and this movie, I think.) There may be more battles, but we have won the war. Women are funny. The original Ghostbusters and this movie are worlds apart, it's kind of apples and oranges.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:25 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I like Paul Feig and I fricking love Melissa McCarthy so it's not like I was going to hate the movie. I just thought it was interesting how we now think of Ghostbusters as a "kid" property instead of the relatively adult 'ha-ha a blow job, ha-ha the Pope!' type 80s movie that it originally was. I think it's great that little girls are watching the movie and getting excited, I genuinely do, it's just evidence of a different age of blockbuster comedy.
I find it annoying that the whole thing has become a war between "nerds" (who, for some reason, think nerds can only be men who don't want to see Lady Ghostbusters, and who claim Ghostbusters is a nerd movie, even though it was a hugely popular mainstream 80s movie with a positively dismissive attitude toward nerds) and everyone else for the soul of feminism, when I mean, c'mon. There are more and more female-driven comedies in the mainstream every year (like everything Melissa McCarthy touches!), even raunchy comedies contain more women and are more realistic about a woman's POV (like Neighbors!), and there are about a million reboots out there. (Some funny, like the 21 Jump Street remake and this movie, I think.) There may be more battles, but we have won the war. Women are funny. The original Ghostbusters and this movie are worlds apart, it's kind of apples and oranges.
posted by stoneandstar at 10:25 PM on July 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm beyond done with the comparisons. This film didn't have the originality of the concept of GB84--that the mysteries and horrors of the supernatural could not only be mitigated completely by technological solutions, but that, rather than being handled by priests or wizards, they get dealt with by a bunch of working slobs in coveralls who make a mess and overcharge--and it didn't have Bill Murray's uncanny improv ability*. But GB84 didn't have Kate McKinnon, nor did it have some amazingly sharp social commentary in their commenting on the YouTube comments to the videos of their exploits--if that wasn't added after the trailer started getting gobs of negative comments, then it was uncannily prescient--and the villain, who comes off as exactly the sort of petulant man-child who couldn't vent their spleen about the remake enough. And I loved Chris Hemsworth as the himbo receptionist.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:05 PM on July 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:05 PM on July 16, 2016 [8 favorites]
I thought it was pretty bad. Bummed out because I was kind of hyped from the trailers and I love the visual style. I thought the cast was great but the writing was just not there. I really would have preferred more of a passing the torch movie like Creed rather than the weird reboot with cameos thing. I'm not sure Feig was right for this particular job, even though the whole thing was his baby.
I'm glad it's not bombing so there is still a chance for a sequel, I think with a better written script they could build on this. Some of my dislike may just be nostalgia for the old version, but after TFA blew me away I kind of have the attitude now that blaming nostalgia is an excuse. Movies can still make me feel like I did when I was a kid, it's just that some do and some don't. I'm willing to give Ghostbusters another chance like I did Star Wars.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:42 AM on July 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
I'm glad it's not bombing so there is still a chance for a sequel, I think with a better written script they could build on this. Some of my dislike may just be nostalgia for the old version, but after TFA blew me away I kind of have the attitude now that blaming nostalgia is an excuse. Movies can still make me feel like I did when I was a kid, it's just that some do and some don't. I'm willing to give Ghostbusters another chance like I did Star Wars.
posted by Drinky Die at 1:42 AM on July 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
My favourite injoke in this new film is when they go to set up their head quarters in the original Ghostbusters building it's way too expensive for them to rent. In 1984, they described Soho as being like a "demilitarized zone" and now rent is $20K a month. I mean, it's not an hilarious joke, but I like they acknowledged the difference in 30 years.
posted by crossoverman at 1:48 AM on July 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by crossoverman at 1:48 AM on July 17, 2016 [14 favorites]
Really great credits worth hanging out for, BTW.
There's a post credits scene, too, that blew me away. I like this reboot-universe. I'm 49 and saw GB84 first run in the theaters and uncountable times on VHS and HBO and my own video server. As Captain Cloud once said, "It's the same, but different."
posted by mikelieman at 2:40 AM on July 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
There's a post credits scene, too, that blew me away. I like this reboot-universe. I'm 49 and saw GB84 first run in the theaters and uncountable times on VHS and HBO and my own video server. As Captain Cloud once said, "It's the same, but different."
posted by mikelieman at 2:40 AM on July 17, 2016 [4 favorites]
Ghostbusters 2016 is definitely less sophisticated than the original. A good comparison is the first use of the Proton Packs, which in the original contains a lot of clever, underplayed dialogue, while the scene in the remake is... a bit of a mess.
This has less to do with the quality of Ghostbusters 2016 than it does the current state of American comedy films in general, though.
posted by EmGeeJay at 6:46 AM on July 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
This has less to do with the quality of Ghostbusters 2016 than it does the current state of American comedy films in general, though.
posted by EmGeeJay at 6:46 AM on July 17, 2016 [6 favorites]
There's a post credits scene, too, that blew me away.
I loved the movie and am excited for a sequel, and after that final sequel hook I really hope someone at work asks me who [redacted] is so I can basically quote [also redacted]'s original exposition back at them.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:15 AM on July 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I loved the movie and am excited for a sequel, and after that final sequel hook I really hope someone at work asks me who [redacted] is so I can basically quote [also redacted]'s original exposition back at them.
posted by Servo5678 at 7:15 AM on July 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Artw: I wouldn't pay attention to any internet accessible audience ratings at this point, since they'll have been gamed to hell and back.
The world's most influential person is moot!
Pinback: On top of that (and this is really strange to say) the humour is nowhere near sophisticated as the original.
Dr. Peter Venkman was "lovable" sleaze who shocked a young man in the name of science, while trying to woo a young lady. His last-ditch effort to win over Dana was to tell her "I am madly in love with you."
But he wasn't the only one in the movie, just as there are some "low brow" jokes in the new movie, but there's also the great opening tour ("This is the room where P.T. Barnum came upon the idea of elephant slavery.")
The new movie is definitely based on the original movie, but it's not a re-telling or a remake, it's sufficiently its own thing. There are lots of nice references that aren't just copied from the first movie. And stars women who kick ass on their own, instead of being the the one to woo and save, or the sassy secretary, or the scared librarian. I really liked it.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:46 AM on July 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
The world's most influential person is moot!
Pinback: On top of that (and this is really strange to say) the humour is nowhere near sophisticated as the original.
Dr. Peter Venkman was "lovable" sleaze who shocked a young man in the name of science, while trying to woo a young lady. His last-ditch effort to win over Dana was to tell her "I am madly in love with you."
But he wasn't the only one in the movie, just as there are some "low brow" jokes in the new movie, but there's also the great opening tour ("This is the room where P.T. Barnum came upon the idea of elephant slavery.")
The new movie is definitely based on the original movie, but it's not a re-telling or a remake, it's sufficiently its own thing. There are lots of nice references that aren't just copied from the first movie. And stars women who kick ass on their own, instead of being the the one to woo and save, or the sassy secretary, or the scared librarian. I really liked it.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:46 AM on July 17, 2016 [8 favorites]
[The difference in humor from old to new version] has less to do with the quality of Ghostbusters 2016 than it does the current state of American comedy films in general, though.
I watched the original with commentary last night, and it sounds like much of the original script was ad-libbed by skilled comedians. I was wondering how much space the new cast had to play, and this article that focuses almost solely on the surprising improv skills of Chris Hemsworth (to be honest, those are some pretty good bits) makes it sound like they did riff a bunch, and the movie was cut down from there. I'm looking forward to seeing the outtakes now.
Anyway, back to the comment on the state of American comedy film humor: I was really happy that Melissa McCarthy wasn't stuck as "the funny fat girl" again. In fact, I can't recall any gag or joke that made any reference to her weight, unlike her role in Spy, which is built around the general ideal that she's not built like a spy. Sure, it's great that she excels despite her appearance, but that's still the core joke, and it was sad.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:58 AM on July 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I watched the original with commentary last night, and it sounds like much of the original script was ad-libbed by skilled comedians. I was wondering how much space the new cast had to play, and this article that focuses almost solely on the surprising improv skills of Chris Hemsworth (to be honest, those are some pretty good bits) makes it sound like they did riff a bunch, and the movie was cut down from there. I'm looking forward to seeing the outtakes now.
Anyway, back to the comment on the state of American comedy film humor: I was really happy that Melissa McCarthy wasn't stuck as "the funny fat girl" again. In fact, I can't recall any gag or joke that made any reference to her weight, unlike her role in Spy, which is built around the general ideal that she's not built like a spy. Sure, it's great that she excels despite her appearance, but that's still the core joke, and it was sad.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:58 AM on July 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I love this essay, and LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this part near the end. It's (a much better articulated version of) what I've been consistently saying about Star Wars ever since Phantom Menace in 1999 and Star Trek since the first JJ version in 2009:
...resist the urge to hold on so tightly to the past that you choke off new life. I reserve my right as an almost 40-year-old to mutter about how everything was better when I was young, but let’s let this generation have their own Ghostbusters. Let’s give my nine-year-old daughter a chance to put on a proton pack and feel like a badass.
Exactly!
posted by zooropa at 9:12 AM on July 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
...resist the urge to hold on so tightly to the past that you choke off new life. I reserve my right as an almost 40-year-old to mutter about how everything was better when I was young, but let’s let this generation have their own Ghostbusters. Let’s give my nine-year-old daughter a chance to put on a proton pack and feel like a badass.
Exactly!
posted by zooropa at 9:12 AM on July 17, 2016 [12 favorites]
Just realized that I didn't resolve the asterisk in my comment above. I meant to comment on Stripes--the movie with the same director and two of the same stars, plus an amazing supporting cast--that had come out a few years before, and was similarly a great showcase for Murray's improv skills. It may not have the same cultural impact as GB84 because it's one of the first post-Vietnam pro-military movies (and also isn't as merchandise/action-figure-friendly), but definitely worth a rewatch. (Contrast with Ghostbusters 2, which repeated many of the elements of the first film, but had a lot less improv, and a lot less fun.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:58 AM on July 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:58 AM on July 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
EmGeeJay, isn't the elevator scene almost word-for-word and shot-for-shot in the new movie?
posted by idb at 10:29 AM on July 17, 2016
posted by idb at 10:29 AM on July 17, 2016
A major part of the magic of the original 1984 movie was the special effects, because filmmaking at the time, with SFX, was full of "how the fuck did they do that" wonder. Today, it's all just done in a computer, and it turns into a major yawn.
posted by hippybear at 2:09 PM on July 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:09 PM on July 17, 2016 [5 favorites]
“You’re not really Egon,” I told my dad after yet another encounter with ecstatic fans, “Don’t they know that?” “Yeah, baby, they know,” he said “but when people get really excited about something, we don’t care if it’s ‘real’ or not. We just want to get as close to it as we can.”
I miss Dad Advice Wisdom. That's the reboots I'd like to see.
posted by DigDoug at 2:26 PM on July 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
I miss Dad Advice Wisdom. That's the reboots I'd like to see.
posted by DigDoug at 2:26 PM on July 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ghostbusters Enjoys $46m Opening Weekend Entirely On Strength Of Guys From The Internet Sitting Alone In Empty Theaters With Their Phone Cameras
posted by Shmuel510 at 3:25 PM on July 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
posted by Shmuel510 at 3:25 PM on July 17, 2016 [10 favorites]
Having only ever watched RedLetterMedia for their Plinkett reviews, it doesn't surprise me that that bunch would buy into the ridiculous anti-hype about a movie starring four women.
Mike Stoklasa of RLM:
posted by Rhomboid at 3:51 PM on July 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
Mike Stoklasa of RLM:
Actually, to me, having an all female cast is one of the biggest attributes to the movie because you're not — women comedians will have a different perspective, a different way of doing the performances than like — you can't replace Bill Murray, Dan Akroyd, Harold Ramis, you just can't. So having male counterparts replace them, or try to be as funny as them, I think would have been more disastrous.RLM definitely has problems with leaning too much on things like rape and fat jokes for humor, but in this specific context I don't think it's why they (or at least Mike specifically) object to the film.
posted by Rhomboid at 3:51 PM on July 17, 2016 [3 favorites]
I've been surprised at what a big deal the original film is to so many people. I saw it once when it came out and don't think that I've seen it since. I remember liking the effects and being annoyed by the Reagan era right wing slant to it but not much else. I probably should re-watch it before I see the new one just so I get the callbacks.
posted by octothorpe at 7:19 PM on July 17, 2016
posted by octothorpe at 7:19 PM on July 17, 2016
I probably never would have thought I would consider the original Ghostbusters to be understated and sophisticated, but yeah, this new version makes (much of) the original seem like a finely tuned Saul Bellow creation.
posted by anarch at 1:23 AM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by anarch at 1:23 AM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Comic Book Girl 19 just posted a new video on the topic.
posted by Rhomboid at 5:34 AM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 5:34 AM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
‘Ghostbusters’ Is A Perfect Example Of How Internet Movie Ratings Are Broken
posted by Artw at 7:08 AM on July 18, 2016
posted by Artw at 7:08 AM on July 18, 2016
Shmuel510: Ghostbusters Enjoys $46m Opening Weekend Entirely On Strength Of Guys From The Internet Sitting Alone In Empty Theaters With Their Phone Cameras
I read the pullquote:
posted by filthy light thief at 7:09 AM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I read the pullquote:
“There absolutely will be more [films that will be seen by no one except for men from Reddit who are there to document that no one came to see them].”and wondered how much was added to make a compact quote, and how much was added for humor. Variety has the same quote from Josh Greenstein, but with a much shorter in-fill:
“There absolutely will be more [films],” said Josh Greenstein, Sony’s marketing and distribution chief. “This is a restart of one of our most important brands.”You don't have to read any more of that article, because they then give time to an angry dude "analyst" who dismisses the $46 million opening weekend, because "any opening under $50 million is not a triumph."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:09 AM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
rokusan: One thought I do enjoy, which I found somewhere on the internet and then lost again, is that it'd be great if this movie was a success, since the better it does the more likely this Hallowe'en might give us thousands of little Ghostbuster girls to go along with the inevitable little Jedi girls, and that is progress, because damn it, I am really, really sick of all those tiny Disney Princesses.
I, too, support more diversity in role models for little kids. I only saw one little kid dressed up as a ghostbuster at the matinee I saw on Saturday, and it was a boy, and I'm interested to see what pre-made costumes roll out ahead of the next Halloween season. Right now, here's an image search that isn't too promising - mostly dudes in the jumpsuits, a little girl with long sleeves but a short skirt, and a woman in a short skirt and a cleavage-focused top.
But back with the original, there were some girls who latched onto the Ghostbusters. A friend of mine, when she was around 4 years old, would only respond to Dr. Venkman or Peter. I recently saw a photo of her in her jumpsuit and she is adorable, and she's currently a biochemist.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:19 AM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I, too, support more diversity in role models for little kids. I only saw one little kid dressed up as a ghostbuster at the matinee I saw on Saturday, and it was a boy, and I'm interested to see what pre-made costumes roll out ahead of the next Halloween season. Right now, here's an image search that isn't too promising - mostly dudes in the jumpsuits, a little girl with long sleeves but a short skirt, and a woman in a short skirt and a cleavage-focused top.
But back with the original, there were some girls who latched onto the Ghostbusters. A friend of mine, when she was around 4 years old, would only respond to Dr. Venkman or Peter. I recently saw a photo of her in her jumpsuit and she is adorable, and she's currently a biochemist.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:19 AM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
I can't post a link from work, but apparently Leslie Jones is being seriously harassed on Twitter -- lots of racist and sexist abuse. Because of course.
posted by suelac at 2:46 PM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by suelac at 2:46 PM on July 18, 2016 [2 favorites]
But back with the original, there were some girls who latched onto the Ghostbusters. A friend of mine, when she was around 4 years old, would only respond to Dr. Venkman or Peter.
I was OBSESSED with the Ghostbusters from about age 4 of 5. Absolutely obsessed. It kind of defies understanding, in retrospect. I never even watched the cartoons.
posted by stoneandstar at 4:52 PM on July 18, 2016
I was OBSESSED with the Ghostbusters from about age 4 of 5. Absolutely obsessed. It kind of defies understanding, in retrospect. I never even watched the cartoons.
posted by stoneandstar at 4:52 PM on July 18, 2016
Comic Book Girl 19:
This movie is "blase as fuck", "should never have been made", and is getting a higher rating than it deserves because people are:posted by anarch at 6:21 PM on July 18, 2016
- Afraid of a witch hunt, of being attacked for misogyny
- Giving this a better rating than it deserves, to push having more women in films
Also, ComicBookGirl19 is essentially saying that Sony inflated the presence of the misogynist haters vs the angry feminists because apparently they knew they had a bad movie and needed to do this to get/keep publicity? WT Actual F?
posted by crossoverman at 8:17 PM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by crossoverman at 8:17 PM on July 18, 2016 [1 favorite]
Twitter Isn't Doing Enough About Leslie Jones' Racist Trolls
posted by Artw at 8:22 PM on July 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:22 PM on July 18, 2016 [4 favorites]
The Importance of Seeing Ghostbusters
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:24 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:24 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Giving this a better rating than it deserves, to push having more women in films
I disagree with the accusation, but more pertinently - why should it be a problem to have people 'push' for more women in films? I do not understand the position of not being happy about some people wanting more women (or minority characters or...any diversity whatsoever) in films. Why is nobody explaining to me why having people who are not straight white men in leading roles is a problem. Seriously - Comic Book Girl 19 and everyone else having a problem with this notion - why are you having a problem with this notion? If the market is demanding more of something, why not give them more. Who is losing out here?
PS: loved the film. LOVED it.
posted by freya_lamb at 2:27 PM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
I disagree with the accusation, but more pertinently - why should it be a problem to have people 'push' for more women in films? I do not understand the position of not being happy about some people wanting more women (or minority characters or...any diversity whatsoever) in films. Why is nobody explaining to me why having people who are not straight white men in leading roles is a problem. Seriously - Comic Book Girl 19 and everyone else having a problem with this notion - why are you having a problem with this notion? If the market is demanding more of something, why not give them more. Who is losing out here?
PS: loved the film. LOVED it.
posted by freya_lamb at 2:27 PM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Oh! I just WATCHED the Comic Book Girl 19 video. Oh dear. She just...doesn't get it.
posted by freya_lamb at 2:38 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by freya_lamb at 2:38 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
Twitter Isn't Doing Enough About Leslie Jones' Racist Trolls
Breitbart editor Milo Yiannopoulos — @nero — has been permanently suspended from Twitter
posted by Drinky Die at 8:17 PM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
Breitbart editor Milo Yiannopoulos — @nero — has been permanently suspended from Twitter
posted by Drinky Die at 8:17 PM on July 19, 2016 [3 favorites]
They could have done with doing that two years ago and before he spawned a million little troll babies, but I guess it's at least something.
posted by Artw at 8:24 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:24 PM on July 19, 2016 [2 favorites]
He's such a stupid jackass. All he had to do was not line cross and he could have kept going on using their platform to profit from being a shithead but he just couldn't resist openly harassing a black woman.
posted by Drinky Die at 8:25 PM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Drinky Die at 8:25 PM on July 19, 2016 [1 favorite]
Leslie Jones' Racist Trolls
The timing of the racist attacks on Leslie Jones on the same day Ghostbusters announced a healthy box-office take is no coincidence. The campaign has always been rooted in bigotry, but at every stage it’s insisted no, the *actual* issue is something else. Then when whatever that 'issue' happens to be is proven to be nonsense, they just abandon it and find another one. “The legacy of the originals is ruined.” All surviving stars support it. “Well, critics are going to destroy it.” They don’t. “Only the box office matters.” It has a healthy opening week. And so on. Reality proves them wrong at every turn. And the prospect of the film bombing was the campaign’s last hope of (in the loosest possible sense) being ‘proven right’. And because they’ve lost that, they’ve finally run out of cover stories. To keep going, they have to embrace the bigotry at its heart. So that’s exactly what they’ve done.posted by twist my arm at 9:39 PM on July 19, 2016 [6 favorites]
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posted by effbot at 2:25 PM on July 16, 2016 [2 favorites]