“Fear is a natural response,”
August 25, 2016 9:39 AM Subscribe
One Third of Parents Avoid Reading Children Scary Stories, Study Finds [The Guardian] “A survey of 1,003 UK parents by online bookseller The Book People found that 33% would steer clear of books for their children containing frightening characters. Asked about the fictional creations they found scariest as children, a fifth of parents cited the Wicked Witch of the West from L Frank Baum’s The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, with the Child Catcher from Ian Fleming’s Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang in second place. Third was the Big Bad Wolf, in his grandmother-swallowing Little Red Riding Hood incarnation, fourth the Grand High Witch from Roald Dahl’s The Witches, and fifth Cruella de Vil, from Dodie Smith’s The Hundred and One Dalmatians.”
“There wouldn't be so many stories about vampires and zombies and other weird creatures if they didn't really exist.” ― R.L. Stineposted by Fizz at 9:44 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
The first time I saw Wizard of Oz, I was so scared of the tornado that I didn't make it to the Wicked Witch. That was probably a good weed-out scare.
posted by little onion at 9:46 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by little onion at 9:46 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Today my 3yo niece found Spongebob a bit scary. But she has no problem watching those fake Peppa Pig episodes on youtube that are nightmarish and gross. Kids are weird.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:46 AM on August 25, 2016
posted by Foci for Analysis at 9:46 AM on August 25, 2016
The book: Scary Stories to Tell In the Dark
The artwork: Stephen Gammell
These are my childhood nightmares come to life. And I loved every second of it.
posted by Fizz at 9:50 AM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
The artwork: Stephen Gammell
These are my childhood nightmares come to life. And I loved every second of it.
posted by Fizz at 9:50 AM on August 25, 2016 [12 favorites]
If I don't read my daughter scary stories, how will she learn that anyone wearing a ribbon around their neck's head probably isn't attached? That's a lesson I keep with me to this day.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:50 AM on August 25, 2016 [47 favorites]
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:50 AM on August 25, 2016 [47 favorites]
There have been periodic scares (sorry) about this topic since at least the eighteenth century--often with a very strong classed/gendered aspect, as the primary culprits in narratives about What Happens When Your Little Darlings are Exposed to Scary Stuff were generally servants and nursery maids. For example, Maria Edgeworth's critique of anti-Semitism, Harrington (1817), grounds the title character's terror of Jewish people in the nasty stories told by a servant about a real local Jew. Complaining that people aren't reading their kids scary stuff is pretty new, though.
posted by thomas j wise at 9:54 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by thomas j wise at 9:54 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Man, the wife and I will light up the fire pit in the backyard, cook up some s'mores and pull this bad boy out to read to our girls. Fuck those kids up real good.
posted by ND¢ at 9:56 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by ND¢ at 9:56 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Wow. The Oz books were amazing to read to my son (staring a couple years ago when he was 5 or 6, we finally finished all 14 of them plus one by Ruth Plumly Thompson). They're scary and funny and sweet and the words roll off the tongue (unlike a certain book about some short guy who lives under a hill).
posted by kokaku at 9:58 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 9:58 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
When I was a kid the part tht scared me the most was a scene in the Little Mermaid when Ariel's father finds her human-stuff stash and starts yelling and breaking things. Growing up I had a father who would yell and get angry a lot - sometimes real life is scarier than fiction.
I never was really scared of any books, but Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark creeped me out the most - not because the stories, but because of the illustrations. Actually as an adult I'm still creeped out by those books.
posted by littlesq at 10:16 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I never was really scared of any books, but Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark creeped me out the most - not because the stories, but because of the illustrations. Actually as an adult I'm still creeped out by those books.
posted by littlesq at 10:16 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
Coincidentally, this morning my almost 3 year old son saw a picture of Little Red Riding Hood and asked about her, so I explained she's a girl in a story. Of course he immediately demanded that I tell him the story. I got to the part at grandma's house and remembered that the wolf eats her, which is pretty dark compared to most of the classic stories I've told him. At the end my son looked at me and said "That story bad." But, 10 minutes later he asked to hear it again.
posted by gatorae at 10:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by gatorae at 10:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
If I don't read my daughter scary stories, how will she learn that anyone wearing a ribbon around their neck's head probably isn't attached? That's a lesson I keep with me to this day.
That is a lesson that is burned into my brain and gave me many a nightmare as a child, so, yep!
I was a more sensitive child than most and I still don't like scary stories or horror films, and I'm not sure exposing me to them as a kid would have helped much. More likely just increased my terror, considering that these are actual things that once made me terrified:
- The aforementioned ribbon around your neck hiding a detached head
- A singing orange from an episode of Sesame Street
- Crunchy leaves on the ground while my dad and I were taking a walk around the neighborhood
- A dream in which I could not push two piles of coins together to make one pile
For comparison's sake, here are some irrational things that have terrified me in this past year:
- The ambient music and the final scenes of the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey
- The final act of the show "Mr. Burns: A Post-Electric Play", in which The Simpsons is reimagined through the lens of a post-nuclear-meltdown society that has only heard of the show through stories
- A painting by Goya in the Museo de Bellas Artes in Buenos Aires
- One of those rickroll links where a scary face appears out of nowhere
posted by chainsofreedom at 10:24 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
That is a lesson that is burned into my brain and gave me many a nightmare as a child, so, yep!
I was a more sensitive child than most and I still don't like scary stories or horror films, and I'm not sure exposing me to them as a kid would have helped much. More likely just increased my terror, considering that these are actual things that once made me terrified:
- The aforementioned ribbon around your neck hiding a detached head
- A singing orange from an episode of Sesame Street
- Crunchy leaves on the ground while my dad and I were taking a walk around the neighborhood
- A dream in which I could not push two piles of coins together to make one pile
For comparison's sake, here are some irrational things that have terrified me in this past year:
- The ambient music and the final scenes of the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey
- The final act of the show "Mr. Burns: A Post-Electric Play", in which The Simpsons is reimagined through the lens of a post-nuclear-meltdown society that has only heard of the show through stories
- A painting by Goya in the Museo de Bellas Artes in Buenos Aires
- One of those rickroll links where a scary face appears out of nowhere
posted by chainsofreedom at 10:24 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
Funny, I was just talking about the ribbon story this weekend. The story that still creeps me out from the Scary Stories books is The Red Spot, although, yea, it was more the illustration than the story.
posted by hopeless romantique at 10:36 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by hopeless romantique at 10:36 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Yes! It is true! I don't try to expose my 4-year-old to stuff that will scare him. I'll just take the Maternal Demerits and move on. Jesus.
posted by purpleclover at 10:40 AM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
posted by purpleclover at 10:40 AM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
kokaku: "(unlike a certain book about some short guy who lives under a hill)"
What? Really? You must not be up on your Elvish pronunciation then. Just remember if it comes first in the word, it's always a hard C...
(I loved reading The Hobbit to my son. He wants to hear it again.)
posted by caution live frogs at 10:41 AM on August 25, 2016
What? Really? You must not be up on your Elvish pronunciation then. Just remember if it comes first in the word, it's always a hard C...
(I loved reading The Hobbit to my son. He wants to hear it again.)
posted by caution live frogs at 10:41 AM on August 25, 2016
Well, the only story my three-year-old found too scary was Beowulf, or my telling of it - perhaps I was trying too hard? It's a lot about tone.
He didn't seem at upset by the kindly lady at church explaining what the nails in the Easter Candle referenced. Again, tone.
The most scared he's ever been was when he was two, watching Thomas the Tank Engine, and his mother and I were all over-dramatic OH NO! when there was a derailment, and he burst into tears...
So I think it's largely projection on the part of parents for very little children. Older children, able to understand the stories? Can totally see things being freaky.
posted by alasdair at 10:51 AM on August 25, 2016
He didn't seem at upset by the kindly lady at church explaining what the nails in the Easter Candle referenced. Again, tone.
The most scared he's ever been was when he was two, watching Thomas the Tank Engine, and his mother and I were all over-dramatic OH NO! when there was a derailment, and he burst into tears...
So I think it's largely projection on the part of parents for very little children. Older children, able to understand the stories? Can totally see things being freaky.
posted by alasdair at 10:51 AM on August 25, 2016
You know what scared me? The goddamn print of Evening On Karl Johann Street that my parents had hanging in the hallway.
posted by thelonius at 10:57 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by thelonius at 10:57 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Even if--theoretically speaking--I had not stopped watching The Wizard Of Oz when the witch first shows up in the tornado, I would have stopped anyway shortly thereafter, because those flying monkeys are fucked up too.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:58 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 10:58 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
Ha, just the other day I got a hankering to read Hyperbole and a Half's "Scariest Story"! Some kids love scary stories, some can't handle them. At least some of the avoidant parents in that survey just know their particular kids don't cope well and will wake them up in the middle of the night.
posted by foxfirefey at 11:02 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by foxfirefey at 11:02 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
My kid was not at all scared by Wizard of Oz, strangely enough. He rather likes it.
But we're reading through Watership Down because he is all about Animals are Better Than People. I have always loved that book, but reading it to a kid has taught me these things;
1. Richard Adams' constant digressions/quotations on botany, biology, literature and such are pretty dull to read to a kid (although I enjoy them) so it's ok to skip them (also the occasional sexist bits);
2. It is also ok to shorten Silverweed's interminable poem (seriously shut up Silverweed)
3. It is also ok to skip descriptions of fields covered in blood, rabbits frothing with blood, rabbit bodies on sticks, blood blood oh my god so much blood
The story does not suffer much from these omissions. We still get the heroic rabbits being heroic.
He is of course welcome to reread this book later and find out all my terrible omissions, but I don't think he'll hate me for it.
posted by emjaybee at 11:07 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
But we're reading through Watership Down because he is all about Animals are Better Than People. I have always loved that book, but reading it to a kid has taught me these things;
1. Richard Adams' constant digressions/quotations on botany, biology, literature and such are pretty dull to read to a kid (although I enjoy them) so it's ok to skip them (also the occasional sexist bits);
2. It is also ok to shorten Silverweed's interminable poem (seriously shut up Silverweed)
3. It is also ok to skip descriptions of fields covered in blood, rabbits frothing with blood, rabbit bodies on sticks, blood blood oh my god so much blood
The story does not suffer much from these omissions. We still get the heroic rabbits being heroic.
He is of course welcome to reread this book later and find out all my terrible omissions, but I don't think he'll hate me for it.
posted by emjaybee at 11:07 AM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
caution live frogs: What? Really?
the story was great just as it had been when i read it myself many many many years ago - what i noticed reading aloud though was the Tolkein's language just does not flow very well for me - reading Baum was very fluid though
posted by kokaku at 11:07 AM on August 25, 2016
the story was great just as it had been when i read it myself many many many years ago - what i noticed reading aloud though was the Tolkein's language just does not flow very well for me - reading Baum was very fluid though
posted by kokaku at 11:07 AM on August 25, 2016
My 2 year old daughter is a monsters and villains fanatic. She can differentiate dragons, dinosaurs, and sea serpents. She knows wizards, witches, robots, werewolves, aliens, vampires, zombies, cultists, and demons. She likes to talk about the 'Triangle Guy' from Gravity Falls, and Mojo Jojo and Him from The Powerpuff Girls. She stomps around the house, growling 'I zombie baby - I eat you!' Here she is including the King in Yellow in her Little People playground games.
She is also afraid of ants. I don't know.
Older children, able to understand the stories? Can totally see things being freaky.
On the other hand, I was relieved that she did not understand a lot of ParaNorman - the slapstick scene where a 10 year old boy attempts to retrieve a book from a corpse with rigor mortis comes to mind. I misjudged the age-appropriateness of that movie, and suspect it would have been a problem if she were 5 instead of 2.
posted by palindromic at 11:08 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
She is also afraid of ants. I don't know.
Older children, able to understand the stories? Can totally see things being freaky.
On the other hand, I was relieved that she did not understand a lot of ParaNorman - the slapstick scene where a 10 year old boy attempts to retrieve a book from a corpse with rigor mortis comes to mind. I misjudged the age-appropriateness of that movie, and suspect it would have been a problem if she were 5 instead of 2.
posted by palindromic at 11:08 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
My kid was not at all scared by Wizard of Oz, strangely enough. He rather likes it.
Try the 80s Return to Oz, assuming traumatizing your child is the goal.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:09 AM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Try the 80s Return to Oz, assuming traumatizing your child is the goal.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:09 AM on August 25, 2016 [13 favorites]
Haha Bulgartonos I've seen that, and noped right past when it came up in my Netflix queue.
What doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article is parents being too exhausted to risk a scared kid that won't go to sleep. That was a huge motivator for us.
posted by emjaybee at 11:13 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
What doesn't seem to be mentioned in the article is parents being too exhausted to risk a scared kid that won't go to sleep. That was a huge motivator for us.
posted by emjaybee at 11:13 AM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I never was really scared of any books, but Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark creeped me out the most
OH MY GOD THE BIG TOE
posted by poffin boffin at 11:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
OH MY GOD THE BIG TOE
posted by poffin boffin at 11:19 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
If I don't read my daughter scary stories, how will she learn that anyone wearing a ribbon around their neck's head probably isn't attached? That's a lesson I keep with me to this day.
How to Keep Your Guy From Removing the Neck Ribbon That Keeps Your Head Tied On:
How to Keep Your Guy From Removing the Neck Ribbon That Keeps Your Head Tied On:
So your sweetheart thinks you’re the bee’s knees, despite the mysterious green ribbon you always wear ’round your neck and refuse to explain. Way to go, lady! Now comes the hard part: keeping his curious fingers away from the precarious knot that holds your decapitated head in place. Boys will be boys, after all, and it’s on us girls to set some boundaries—otherwise we’d all lose our heads!posted by palindromic at 11:23 AM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
True story: my wife posted to Facebook recently that my daughter was pretending to be a vampire (she's 4) and my Aunt, a therapist and incredible know-it-all was "seriously concerned" about exposure to vampires at the age of four. Yeah, sure, I'm definitely going to cover my kid's eyes whenever we walk by Count Chocula in the cereal aisle.
Meanwhile, said kid has moved on to the term "blood-slurpers" which she picked up from a French kids book.
posted by selfnoise at 11:27 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, said kid has moved on to the term "blood-slurpers" which she picked up from a French kids book.
posted by selfnoise at 11:27 AM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Being able to stand up to the fear induced by hearing The Tailypo made me the strong woman I am today. (I recently re-found this book at my parents house and am dying to read it to my nephew and god-daughter...)
posted by ikahime at 11:36 AM on August 25, 2016
posted by ikahime at 11:36 AM on August 25, 2016
My nephew, age six, is completely freaked out by videos of the Cookie Monster. Not photos -- just videos. I think it's the voice that scares him. I guess I won't be introducing him to Tom Waits any time soon.
posted by holborne at 11:39 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
posted by holborne at 11:39 AM on August 25, 2016 [8 favorites]
emjaybee, that reminds me of my dad reading me Animal Farm as a bedtime story. Probably dozens of times. I loved it, and it wasn't till I was in high school or so that the horror of, say, shipping Boxer off actually hit me.
posted by fiercecupcake at 11:51 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by fiercecupcake at 11:51 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
The book: Scary Stories to Tell In the Dark
If I don't read my daughter scary stories, how will she learn that anyone wearing a ribbon around their neck's head probably isn't attached? That's a lesson I keep with me to this day.
Nothing I loved more as a kid than storytime with my Dad, who would read us these or make up mysteries off the top of his head. He used to tell us a clown snuck into our house at night and messed up all the clocks. Of course, my favorite film aged 3 was Little Shop of Horrors, until I moved on to Wizard of Oz.
posted by sallybrown at 11:55 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
If I don't read my daughter scary stories, how will she learn that anyone wearing a ribbon around their neck's head probably isn't attached? That's a lesson I keep with me to this day.
Nothing I loved more as a kid than storytime with my Dad, who would read us these or make up mysteries off the top of his head. He used to tell us a clown snuck into our house at night and messed up all the clocks. Of course, my favorite film aged 3 was Little Shop of Horrors, until I moved on to Wizard of Oz.
posted by sallybrown at 11:55 AM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
chainsofreedom, I too was a sensitive kid with weird triggers. What scared me was either supposed to scare grownups too (Stephen King stories I wasn't supposed to be seeing) or not supposed to scare anyone at all. Claymation scared me -- I like stopmotion, I always have, but the oozing, shuddering quality of Art Clokey or Will Vinton's work just gave me the fantods. And there was this Raggedy Ann & Andy movie with a giant candy monster engulfing them that . . . I had to run away from the TV. But I think it was supposed to be funny.
I was terrified of the experience of watching movies in a theater. I liked movies, it was just that the theater was too intense for me -- the darkness, the size of the screen . . . I couldn't explain this to my parents, and they would get frustrated and angry at my spoiling their attempts to use their precious time off for a movie. This is entirely reasonable, of course, but it led to tears at the time.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:59 AM on August 25, 2016
I was terrified of the experience of watching movies in a theater. I liked movies, it was just that the theater was too intense for me -- the darkness, the size of the screen . . . I couldn't explain this to my parents, and they would get frustrated and angry at my spoiling their attempts to use their precious time off for a movie. This is entirely reasonable, of course, but it led to tears at the time.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:59 AM on August 25, 2016
The second-place villain listed in the survey just makes me so mad. THERE IS NO CHILD CATCHER in Ian Fleming's book. The book is almost completely different from the silly, charming movie. Read this book to your child! No reason to steer clear of it because of the movie.
posted by evilmomlady at 12:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by evilmomlady at 12:15 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Oh hey, I just tried to show my 2.5 year old The Wizard of Oz yesterday. I kind of knew it was going to be too scary for her, though she held on through counseling/discussion through the twister and the appearance of the witch, long enough to see Munchkin Land, Glinda, and the introduction of Dorothy's companions, which I knew she would love. But by the time we got to the Winged Monkeys and the poppies, she noped right out and asked me to put on Paw Patrol (again) instead.
I see it as nudging my child little by little toward greater emotional intensity while also respecting her limits.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:35 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
I see it as nudging my child little by little toward greater emotional intensity while also respecting her limits.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 12:35 PM on August 25, 2016 [2 favorites]
(unlike a certain book about some short guy who lives under a hill)
As the granddaughter of a Norwegian-Canadian-American (he'd immigrated to Canada before the US): what do you mean, "book"?! Norwegian grandpas know troll stories by heart! And they're all different! Why, one day it's a mean old troll, so old he's nearly turned to stone, who starts crashing towards a little girl who's picked her grandfather's favorite rose (what, what are you looking at me like that for). In the end the creaky, crashing, bellowing old troll is given the rose and sets himself down in the ocean, creating a rocky island. Another day it's a fiery young troll who's angry at the local town for encroaching on his favorite moss garden. What's he going to eat now?! Still another day, it's a middle-aged troll-kvinna (woman troll; huh, online translations say "trollkvinna" means witch? my grandfather never used it that way) looking for her troll-children, who've disguised themselves as rocks to chase goats. Keep away from wild trolls far outside human dweillings, they kidnap human children and eat them.
A great scary-not-scary movie for kids is Trolljegeren (Trollhunter).
posted by fraula at 12:41 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
As the granddaughter of a Norwegian-Canadian-American (he'd immigrated to Canada before the US): what do you mean, "book"?! Norwegian grandpas know troll stories by heart! And they're all different! Why, one day it's a mean old troll, so old he's nearly turned to stone, who starts crashing towards a little girl who's picked her grandfather's favorite rose (what, what are you looking at me like that for). In the end the creaky, crashing, bellowing old troll is given the rose and sets himself down in the ocean, creating a rocky island. Another day it's a fiery young troll who's angry at the local town for encroaching on his favorite moss garden. What's he going to eat now?! Still another day, it's a middle-aged troll-kvinna (woman troll; huh, online translations say "trollkvinna" means witch? my grandfather never used it that way) looking for her troll-children, who've disguised themselves as rocks to chase goats. Keep away from wild trolls far outside human dweillings, they kidnap human children and eat them.
A great scary-not-scary movie for kids is Trolljegeren (Trollhunter).
posted by fraula at 12:41 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I do a little work in children's film programming, and we don't program scary stories very often; interest is lower, and it's just the hardest genre to get right. There's so much variety in what kids will or won't find scary, what parents find objectionable, what's developmentally appropriate for a 4-year-old versus a 12-year-old. If you put together too many cute films where the monster is revealed to be a vacuum cleaner or something, older kids will be like, "that was for babies-- boring!" If you put in too much that's genuinely scary, you might get crying kids and angry parents! Something like comedy or fairy tales is just a lot easier to predict. But it kills me because scary stories were my absolute favorite thing as a kid and I think there's value in experiencing unconfortable emotions in a "safe" way. I'm glad that teens still love horror, anyway.
posted by thetortoise at 12:50 PM on August 25, 2016
posted by thetortoise at 12:50 PM on August 25, 2016
I grew up reading classic fairytales, and the worst one was Bluebeard. Which is your basic serial killer story, complete with our Clarice Starling-like POV character discovering the corpses of Bluebeard's former wives, and the horrible little detail of the blood-soaked key.
posted by sukeban at 12:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by sukeban at 12:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Nothing scare(s/d) me like vomit.
I haven't vomited since 1990.
I think about vomit every day.
Do you know how many movies have vomiting in them?!?! (answer: all of the movies)
posted by Dressed to Kill at 12:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I haven't vomited since 1990.
I think about vomit every day.
Do you know how many movies have vomiting in them?!?! (answer: all of the movies)
posted by Dressed to Kill at 12:53 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I think I let my son watch The Wizard of Oz a bit too young, which is probably why he hated the song Over the Rainbow. If it came on anywhere, he'd demand to have it shut off or to leave. He just couldn't tolerate hearing it. (He is a grown man now. I think I'll call and sing it to him to see if it still makes him cry.)
He was also terrified of Ronald Reagan, who was president when he was born. I have no idea where that came from, though. He was a pre-verbal baby, but he couldn't stand the sight or the sound of Ronald Reagan. We didn't have a TV, so it's not like I sat around yelling at Reagan on the TV or anything. And a lot of the time, I wouldn't even notice at first, like Reagan would come up on a TV screen in a business or something, and my son would start screaming, and we'd have to leave. So I don't think I taught that to him, but he's my boy, so I get to be proud anyway.
He was a really quiet, well mannered kid pretty much from birth, and he wasn't overly fearful of anything except for Over the Rainbow and Ronald Reagan, and he was really good, even before he could talk, about letting me know that these things were not OK.
I think kids are usually pretty good about letting you know what they are and aren't ready for, and if parents pay attention and choose stuff that's at their own kids' level (unlike me with Wizard of Oz), they'll be fine. Different people have different ways of dealing with their fears, and even little kids should be given some say in that.
My poor mom got a lot of crap for that sort of thing because of me. I got in trouble in elementary school for writing a detailed report about Jack the Ripper, complete with diagrams of the crime scenes (she kept that report, and it was pretty well done, if I say so myself), and I'd gravitate to anything that was supposed to be off limits to me. I was just as horrified as anyone is with that stuff, but I just dealt with it by trying to understand it. And if my parents had tried too hard to forbid things, I would have just treated it as a suggested reading list. And when someone did try to keep information from me, I'd just imagine something even worse.
My mom always liked to counter her critics with Noah's Ark. People treat it like it's a cute little kid story with animals. They make baby books about it and everything, but it's much worse than Jack the Ripper or anything like that, and they expect their kids not to notice or to think it's OK or something.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
He was also terrified of Ronald Reagan, who was president when he was born. I have no idea where that came from, though. He was a pre-verbal baby, but he couldn't stand the sight or the sound of Ronald Reagan. We didn't have a TV, so it's not like I sat around yelling at Reagan on the TV or anything. And a lot of the time, I wouldn't even notice at first, like Reagan would come up on a TV screen in a business or something, and my son would start screaming, and we'd have to leave. So I don't think I taught that to him, but he's my boy, so I get to be proud anyway.
He was a really quiet, well mannered kid pretty much from birth, and he wasn't overly fearful of anything except for Over the Rainbow and Ronald Reagan, and he was really good, even before he could talk, about letting me know that these things were not OK.
I think kids are usually pretty good about letting you know what they are and aren't ready for, and if parents pay attention and choose stuff that's at their own kids' level (unlike me with Wizard of Oz), they'll be fine. Different people have different ways of dealing with their fears, and even little kids should be given some say in that.
My poor mom got a lot of crap for that sort of thing because of me. I got in trouble in elementary school for writing a detailed report about Jack the Ripper, complete with diagrams of the crime scenes (she kept that report, and it was pretty well done, if I say so myself), and I'd gravitate to anything that was supposed to be off limits to me. I was just as horrified as anyone is with that stuff, but I just dealt with it by trying to understand it. And if my parents had tried too hard to forbid things, I would have just treated it as a suggested reading list. And when someone did try to keep information from me, I'd just imagine something even worse.
My mom always liked to counter her critics with Noah's Ark. People treat it like it's a cute little kid story with animals. They make baby books about it and everything, but it's much worse than Jack the Ripper or anything like that, and they expect their kids not to notice or to think it's OK or something.
posted by ernielundquist at 1:00 PM on August 25, 2016 [5 favorites]
My mom always liked to counter her critics with Noah's Ark. People treat it like it's a cute little kid story with animals. They make baby books about it and everything, but it's much worse than Jack the Ripper or anything like that, and they expect their kids not to notice or to think it's OK or something.
Yeah, when I was really little it was religion that scared me. We had a book of medieval illustrations of the Book of Revelation and - per my parents - I used to really pore over it. I spent many years of my young childhood convinced that I was going to hell, and I had some really formative dreams where everyone would witness me being condemned to eternal damnation.
I am not really sure why I thought I was such a bad kid - natural predisposition to anxiety, some really unwise things said by my parents (who were great parents in almost all ways but when they had an oops-shouldn't-have-said-that moment it was usually pretty epic), high-authoritarianism family in general? Anyway, between about six and eleven, I used to worry about it a lot for no particular reason, just a general sense that I could not possibly be good enough to get a pass from god.
And the ark story really freaked me out - I used to imagine all the animals who didn't get onto the ark drowning and imagine that if I'd been an animal I probably wouldn't have been picked. (I don't think I worried too much about the people.)
Also, we got a lot of scary folk songs and ballads in school for some reason - it was pretty early in grade school when we sang that one about the Titanic with the line "they put the poor below, where they were the first to go" and even today that line makes me feel all...triggered and freaked out. Perhaps this is the origin point for Social Justice Frowner.
posted by Frowner at 1:22 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
Yeah, when I was really little it was religion that scared me. We had a book of medieval illustrations of the Book of Revelation and - per my parents - I used to really pore over it. I spent many years of my young childhood convinced that I was going to hell, and I had some really formative dreams where everyone would witness me being condemned to eternal damnation.
I am not really sure why I thought I was such a bad kid - natural predisposition to anxiety, some really unwise things said by my parents (who were great parents in almost all ways but when they had an oops-shouldn't-have-said-that moment it was usually pretty epic), high-authoritarianism family in general? Anyway, between about six and eleven, I used to worry about it a lot for no particular reason, just a general sense that I could not possibly be good enough to get a pass from god.
And the ark story really freaked me out - I used to imagine all the animals who didn't get onto the ark drowning and imagine that if I'd been an animal I probably wouldn't have been picked. (I don't think I worried too much about the people.)
Also, we got a lot of scary folk songs and ballads in school for some reason - it was pretty early in grade school when we sang that one about the Titanic with the line "they put the poor below, where they were the first to go" and even today that line makes me feel all...triggered and freaked out. Perhaps this is the origin point for Social Justice Frowner.
posted by Frowner at 1:22 PM on August 25, 2016 [6 favorites]
My nephew, age six, is completely freaked out by videos of the Cookie Monster. Not photos -- just videos. I think it's the voice that scares him. I guess I won't be introducing him to Tom Waits any time soon.
¿Por qué no los dos?
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:52 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
¿Por qué no los dos?
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:52 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also,
If you put together too many cute films where the monster is revealed to be a vacuum cleaner or something, older kids will be like, "that was for babies-- boring!"
I still can't watch The Brave Little Toaster. My chore in the house is vacuuming and I have to unplug everything and put the cords out of the way before I can begin.
I never got through The Secret of NIMH either. Or All Dogs Go To Heaven. Sheesh.
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:54 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
If you put together too many cute films where the monster is revealed to be a vacuum cleaner or something, older kids will be like, "that was for babies-- boring!"
I still can't watch The Brave Little Toaster. My chore in the house is vacuuming and I have to unplug everything and put the cords out of the way before I can begin.
I never got through The Secret of NIMH either. Or All Dogs Go To Heaven. Sheesh.
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:54 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
I read Animal Farm when I was seven or eight, on my mum's recommendation. Years later I asked what she was thinking, and she said "Well, you liked stories about animals."
I havenh't read it in years, and I want to, but at the same time, will I cry over the horses?
posted by glitter at 3:31 PM on August 25, 2016
I havenh't read it in years, and I want to, but at the same time, will I cry over the horses?
posted by glitter at 3:31 PM on August 25, 2016
Based on my understanding of toddler sleeping habits and the effect it has on their parents, I can't blame anyone who actively avoids anything that even might lead their children to sleep less.
posted by Anonymous at 3:40 PM on August 25, 2016
posted by Anonymous at 3:40 PM on August 25, 2016
I got a copy of Wolves in the Walls by Neil Gaiman well before I had my kid. Started reading it to her fairly early. I can remember her viscerally shuddering as she pulled it off the bookshelf and handed it to me, knowing I was about to tell a scary story. Listening with her fingers in her mouth, hands over her eyes, but still getting it out for me to read.
She also came galloping into my bed at yawn'o'clock one morning, having woken up early and read her Ever After High book, only to get to a scene where they find a skeleton in a rotted dress that is the missing student - she very carefully watched me put the book up on a high shelf with all my non-kid books, to make sure it wouldn't come back to her room.
She also burst into tears watching Pokemon last night, when Butterfree goes to make a family and leaves Ash behind.
So I guess what I'm saying is I don't protect her from the hard lessons and violent emotions of media, but I do support her to protect herself? Like when she developed a HUGE fear of the bear in Where's My Hat (gloriously hilarious book) so we would rush past that red page. The bit where he has obviously eaten another animal? That's fine. Not the beserker bear. We've narrowed her fear range down to violent animals (so Zootopia was a fucking nightmare that she bolted out of half way through) which helps - it means we can prepare her and she can develop her own coping mechanisms. She pushes her own comfort zone though, even now - there are episodes of MLP that terrify her but she will watch them over and over.
(I fully expect her to be a horror movie nerd when she's older, much like a few friends of mine)
posted by geek anachronism at 3:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
She also came galloping into my bed at yawn'o'clock one morning, having woken up early and read her Ever After High book, only to get to a scene where they find a skeleton in a rotted dress that is the missing student - she very carefully watched me put the book up on a high shelf with all my non-kid books, to make sure it wouldn't come back to her room.
She also burst into tears watching Pokemon last night, when Butterfree goes to make a family and leaves Ash behind.
So I guess what I'm saying is I don't protect her from the hard lessons and violent emotions of media, but I do support her to protect herself? Like when she developed a HUGE fear of the bear in Where's My Hat (gloriously hilarious book) so we would rush past that red page. The bit where he has obviously eaten another animal? That's fine. Not the beserker bear. We've narrowed her fear range down to violent animals (so Zootopia was a fucking nightmare that she bolted out of half way through) which helps - it means we can prepare her and she can develop her own coping mechanisms. She pushes her own comfort zone though, even now - there are episodes of MLP that terrify her but she will watch them over and over.
(I fully expect her to be a horror movie nerd when she's older, much like a few friends of mine)
posted by geek anachronism at 3:40 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Some kids love scary stories, some can't handle them.
I was, and am, both kids.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:09 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
I was, and am, both kids.
posted by Pope Guilty at 6:09 PM on August 25, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I think the kids who like scary stories the most are the ones who are the most frightened of them. It correlates with high creativity and imaginative natures, I suspect. Ours is four, and he vacillates between not wanting anything scary at all to days when we play "the monsters game," where we get some weapons and block ourselves in his closet with the lights off, whispering about what the monsters are doing right outside the door where we can't see them and where they might burst in at any moment. We took him to a haunted house ride at the beach this year, and he was shaky all night afterward and said he never wanted to go back. But now, he still talks about "the scary house" on a regular basis and wants to watch and rewatch any episode of any show that features a haunted house.
Flip side, he spends most of his time being a cat, which consists of shrieking loud and shrill and then spitting on his hands, or being Bastion (from Overwatch), which is better because it only involves carrying his toy golf club bag on his back to be the turret.
posted by Scattercat at 7:09 PM on August 25, 2016
Flip side, he spends most of his time being a cat, which consists of shrieking loud and shrill and then spitting on his hands, or being Bastion (from Overwatch), which is better because it only involves carrying his toy golf club bag on his back to be the turret.
posted by Scattercat at 7:09 PM on August 25, 2016
It's true that fear is scary, but there's no way to work your way to brave without it.
I sometimes feel sad for kids who are too protected from this truth by parents whose own jitters get the better of them. Their love for their children is so fierce it creates a kind of reverse empathy bridge along which nervousness can be transmitted. In this way it seems some kinds of anxiety are taught.
Because it is hard to defend frightening children without coming off as a monster this position is rarely explicated with the vigour it may deserve.
posted by Construction Concern at 7:10 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I sometimes feel sad for kids who are too protected from this truth by parents whose own jitters get the better of them. Their love for their children is so fierce it creates a kind of reverse empathy bridge along which nervousness can be transmitted. In this way it seems some kinds of anxiety are taught.
Because it is hard to defend frightening children without coming off as a monster this position is rarely explicated with the vigour it may deserve.
posted by Construction Concern at 7:10 PM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]
I am reminded of the thought paraphrased from G.K. Chesterton, “Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed.”
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:51 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:51 PM on August 25, 2016 [14 favorites]
"Non-fiction" information books about greys and the like scared me as a kid, and still scare me to this day. I don't remember reading many things that frightened me. I was a big fan of Goosebumps, but they never really scared me as much as they made me feel uneasy, especially the story about the camera that captures your death.
As for TV shows, "Are You Afraid of the Dark?" gave me nightmares at times as a kid.
posted by gucci mane at 11:07 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
As for TV shows, "Are You Afraid of the Dark?" gave me nightmares at times as a kid.
posted by gucci mane at 11:07 PM on August 25, 2016 [1 favorite]
Hitchcock's TV show scared me (still does), but I was scared of everything as a kid.
My granddaughter is 4, and is always wanting to hear monster stories.
At first, I was concerned about the scary part, but I don't think she finds them scary.
I got a (young person's version of ) Beowulf out of the library, and she wanted to hear it again and again.
If I find something that she's really scared of, I probably wouldn't go there.
I think I read somewhere in child development that kids that age want to be scared, at least a little.
On the other hand, she does find ants scary...
posted by MtDewd at 6:49 AM on August 26, 2016
My granddaughter is 4, and is always wanting to hear monster stories.
At first, I was concerned about the scary part, but I don't think she finds them scary.
I got a (young person's version of ) Beowulf out of the library, and she wanted to hear it again and again.
If I find something that she's really scared of, I probably wouldn't go there.
I think I read somewhere in child development that kids that age want to be scared, at least a little.
On the other hand, she does find ants scary...
posted by MtDewd at 6:49 AM on August 26, 2016
I am reminded of the thought paraphrased from G.K. Chesterton, “Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed.”
This quote only ever made me feel sorry for dragons, though. I always preferred the stories where you got along with them.
(Actually Steven Universe is really good on this, and also on what happens when the dragon is not interested in being your friend. There is smiting, but there is also honesty about what smiting your dragon/enemy does to a person, and how to deal with that, which is something your average dragon-slayer story never covers. One character says "There's no such thing as a good war" and that's a lesson I really do want my kid to learn).
My kid watched the deGrasse-Tyson Cosmos with us, and it was great, till the global warming episode, and now he pretty much hates all humans and thinks about the end of the world all the time. Much like I did when I discovered what nuclear war was. We let him watch knowing that could happen because lying to him seemed worse. But it's still hard and I have no easy answers to give him.
Plenty of real life scares out there.
In fact, as I recall C.S. Lewis said in his biography that he was most scared of a relatively innocent illustration in a pop-up book as a kid. I think as a species we are good at scaring ourselves even when not given stuff that most people consider scary.
posted by emjaybee at 7:44 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
This quote only ever made me feel sorry for dragons, though. I always preferred the stories where you got along with them.
(Actually Steven Universe is really good on this, and also on what happens when the dragon is not interested in being your friend. There is smiting, but there is also honesty about what smiting your dragon/enemy does to a person, and how to deal with that, which is something your average dragon-slayer story never covers. One character says "There's no such thing as a good war" and that's a lesson I really do want my kid to learn).
My kid watched the deGrasse-Tyson Cosmos with us, and it was great, till the global warming episode, and now he pretty much hates all humans and thinks about the end of the world all the time. Much like I did when I discovered what nuclear war was. We let him watch knowing that could happen because lying to him seemed worse. But it's still hard and I have no easy answers to give him.
Plenty of real life scares out there.
In fact, as I recall C.S. Lewis said in his biography that he was most scared of a relatively innocent illustration in a pop-up book as a kid. I think as a species we are good at scaring ourselves even when not given stuff that most people consider scary.
posted by emjaybee at 7:44 AM on August 26, 2016 [3 favorites]
She also burst into tears watching Pokemon last night, when Butterfree goes to make a family and leaves Ash behind.
Man, I burst into tears watching that.
posted by holborne at 9:25 AM on August 26, 2016
Man, I burst into tears watching that.
posted by holborne at 9:25 AM on August 26, 2016
The actual statistics in this story show that a lot of parents avoid reading their kids scary stories.
The assumption made is that it's good to read kids scary stories because it builds resilience and enhances their ability to handle real-life scary things. In my experience, this has not been true. I do not like scary stories and never have. I'm perfectly able to handle real life.
I have one child who enjoys being scared, another who doesn't. I think it's just a preference. It doesn't seem to correlate with their level of maturity or resilience. Similarly, I've never been a thrill-seeker, but have a close relative who enjoys bungee jumping, skydiving, etc. IMO, there is nothing wrong with either way.
posted by chickenmagazine at 8:26 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
The assumption made is that it's good to read kids scary stories because it builds resilience and enhances their ability to handle real-life scary things. In my experience, this has not been true. I do not like scary stories and never have. I'm perfectly able to handle real life.
I have one child who enjoys being scared, another who doesn't. I think it's just a preference. It doesn't seem to correlate with their level of maturity or resilience. Similarly, I've never been a thrill-seeker, but have a close relative who enjoys bungee jumping, skydiving, etc. IMO, there is nothing wrong with either way.
posted by chickenmagazine at 8:26 PM on August 26, 2016 [1 favorite]
I can't believe no one has mentioned a Frog and Toad story called Shivers, which is both a great introduction to scary stories for the very young (my kid loved it at 2.5) and a reassurance that it's ok to like being scared. Synopsis: Frog tells Toad a story that may or may not be true, about getting lost in the woods and having to outsmart a ghost that wants to eat him. The end of the story is Frog and Toad having the shivers, and the last line specifically says "It was a good feeling." My kid wanted to hear it every night at bedtime for months.
posted by lollymccatburglar at 12:54 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by lollymccatburglar at 12:54 AM on August 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Mod note: A few comments deleted. Sorry, but the idea that people here are abusing their children is a major misunderstanding of the discussion.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:36 AM on August 28, 2016
posted by taz (staff) at 3:36 AM on August 28, 2016
When my nephew was a really little kid, he had this period where he was having some serious anxiety, for good reasons that were beyond anyone's control. But he was dealing with things in his life that a lot of people don't have to think about until they're much, much older.
So I sent my sister a copy of Stormy Night by Michele Lemieux, a picture book about a little girl sitting up all night with her dog contemplating all kinds of big existential and sometimes morbid questions, as I did when I was a little kid, and what it sounded like my nephew was. I told my sister to decide if and when to read it to him, and then promptly forgot all about it until recently, when my nephew, now 15, came to spend a couple of months with us, and told me that that was his favorite book as a kid, and he still has it somewhere in his messy teenager room for when he needs it.
I do remember thinking as a kid that there was something wrong with me because I'd think about death and abandonment and what would happen if I just got flung out into space somehow and spent the rest of my life drifting around unanchored, when I was obviously only supposed to be thinking about happy stories where everything turns out OK in the end, ignoring the fact that the real end of every story is death. So I do believe that at least some kids need some sort of acknowledgment that they're not alone, and that it's normal and even healthy to think about these things, even if we don't have neat resolutions to go with them.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:37 AM on August 28, 2016
So I sent my sister a copy of Stormy Night by Michele Lemieux, a picture book about a little girl sitting up all night with her dog contemplating all kinds of big existential and sometimes morbid questions, as I did when I was a little kid, and what it sounded like my nephew was. I told my sister to decide if and when to read it to him, and then promptly forgot all about it until recently, when my nephew, now 15, came to spend a couple of months with us, and told me that that was his favorite book as a kid, and he still has it somewhere in his messy teenager room for when he needs it.
I do remember thinking as a kid that there was something wrong with me because I'd think about death and abandonment and what would happen if I just got flung out into space somehow and spent the rest of my life drifting around unanchored, when I was obviously only supposed to be thinking about happy stories where everything turns out OK in the end, ignoring the fact that the real end of every story is death. So I do believe that at least some kids need some sort of acknowledgment that they're not alone, and that it's normal and even healthy to think about these things, even if we don't have neat resolutions to go with them.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:37 AM on August 28, 2016
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e.g. A Giant Problem
nightmare fuel! but they like whatevs
posted by jcruelty at 9:42 AM on August 25, 2016 [4 favorites]