Ride the tides of Titan!
November 27, 2016 5:55 AM Subscribe
This would clearly be easier and more practical than working together to clean up the mess we've made here.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:05 AM on November 27, 2016 [25 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:05 AM on November 27, 2016 [25 favorites]
I predict it will somehow get moved to orbit Jupiter and then they'll put a prison colony on it.
posted by biffa at 6:12 AM on November 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
posted by biffa at 6:12 AM on November 27, 2016 [4 favorites]
It's also so dark on the surface that the Huygens needed a floodlight to take a picture. The Titanians better not suffer from Seasonal Affective Disorder.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:14 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by leotrotsky at 6:14 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Also, if the argument is that Mars' atmosphere is too thin, cometary bombardment or freeing up some of Mars' frozen water can solve that.
Saturn is *really* far away.
(of course, the Kuiper Belt where the comets live is even farther)
posted by leotrotsky at 6:19 AM on November 27, 2016
Saturn is *really* far away.
(of course, the Kuiper Belt where the comets live is even farther)
posted by leotrotsky at 6:19 AM on November 27, 2016
We should probably make sure that this guy doesn't already live there. He's infamous for not getting along with earthlings.
posted by Hale Poetry at 6:30 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Hale Poetry at 6:30 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Thanks for posting. Breakfast conversation and pretend play scenario for my space obsessed four year old sorted for the day!
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:11 AM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:11 AM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
I guess the seven year journey can be spent completing a Phd.
It would be neat to try and modify psychrophiles and send them there, but I guess if we can't find it in nature, there's not much use in hoping we can whip it up ourselves.
posted by Trifling at 7:16 AM on November 27, 2016
It would be neat to try and modify psychrophiles and send them there, but I guess if we can't find it in nature, there's not much use in hoping we can whip it up ourselves.
posted by Trifling at 7:16 AM on November 27, 2016
There's already a colony of billionaires there who will shoot down incoming ships
Not to mention that chrono-synclastic infundibulum problem.
posted by kewb at 7:29 AM on November 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
Not to mention that chrono-synclastic infundibulum problem.
posted by kewb at 7:29 AM on November 27, 2016 [14 favorites]
This would clearly be easier and more practical than working together to clean up the mess we've made here.
Last year I'd say there's a 99% chance you were being sarcastic, now my odds are 50%.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:43 AM on November 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
Last year I'd say there's a 99% chance you were being sarcastic, now my odds are 50%.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:43 AM on November 27, 2016 [8 favorites]
"the only place beyond Earth" in the Universe?
That seems unlikely.
posted by humboldt32 at 8:10 AM on November 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
That seems unlikely.
posted by humboldt32 at 8:10 AM on November 27, 2016 [2 favorites]
There's one problem with the OP's proposal; the abundance of hydrocarbons on Titan doesn't equate to an abundance of energy. And the availability of water doesn't fix that because the oxygen in the water is already reacted with hydrogen to make the water, so you'd have to put energy in to free the oxygen before you could get energy out by reacting it with the hydrocarbons. So the self-sufficiency argument falls a bit flat.
A more interesting possibility to me is floating about in the atmosphere of Saturn itself; the gravity is about equal to Earth's (big planet but low density), and there is a stratum where both the temperature and air pressure are very similar to Earth. You wouldn't even need the cold weather gear, just a respirator. It's true that there are no solids but there are lots of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, and lots of energetic wind phenomena that might be harnessed for energy.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:20 AM on November 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
A more interesting possibility to me is floating about in the atmosphere of Saturn itself; the gravity is about equal to Earth's (big planet but low density), and there is a stratum where both the temperature and air pressure are very similar to Earth. You wouldn't even need the cold weather gear, just a respirator. It's true that there are no solids but there are lots of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, and lots of energetic wind phenomena that might be harnessed for energy.
posted by Bringer Tom at 8:20 AM on November 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
thanks to its thick atmosphere, residents wouldn’t need pressure suits—just warm clothing
Make sure to wear multiple layers, and always wear a scarf. It's really annoying when liquid methane gets in through that gap between your face mask and your parka.
posted by sfenders at 8:30 AM on November 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
Make sure to wear multiple layers, and always wear a scarf. It's really annoying when liquid methane gets in through that gap between your face mask and your parka.
posted by sfenders at 8:30 AM on November 27, 2016 [10 favorites]
All these worlds are yours, except ... oh, never mind. Go for it.
posted by lagomorphius at 8:56 AM on November 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by lagomorphius at 8:56 AM on November 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
I love speculative articles that conclude with "Oops, never mind."
posted by 1adam12 at 9:23 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by 1adam12 at 9:23 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Then someone steps outside for a smoke...
posted by hangashore at 9:31 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by hangashore at 9:31 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
thanks to its thick atmosphere, residents wouldn’t need pressure suits—just warm clothing
Sure, but when it's three hundred below outside, the kind of suit you'd need to stay warm would be indistinguishable from a pressure suit. Actually it'd probably look less like a suit and more like a cross between a Mars rover and a submersible.
posted by echo target at 10:41 AM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Sure, but when it's three hundred below outside, the kind of suit you'd need to stay warm would be indistinguishable from a pressure suit. Actually it'd probably look less like a suit and more like a cross between a Mars rover and a submersible.
posted by echo target at 10:41 AM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
You may be asking yourself if power metal has produced any songs regarding the colonization of Titan after apocalyptic catastrophe. Hammerfall's got you covered:
Titan!
Even the dark has a silver lining
Titan! Titan!
Shining bright so far beyond the sun
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 10:50 AM on November 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
Titan!
Even the dark has a silver lining
Titan! Titan!
Shining bright so far beyond the sun
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 10:50 AM on November 27, 2016 [11 favorites]
The potential radiation protection from Saturn is a major factor. Without that kind of protection, as the article makes clear, Mars is not habitable. Or am I missing something?
posted by Stoatfarm at 11:03 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Stoatfarm at 11:03 AM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
It's true that there are no solids but there are lots of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere, and lots of energetic wind phenomena that might be harnessed for energy.
Yeah you can say that again - what are the wind speeds like at this part of the atmosphere?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:24 PM on November 27, 2016
Yeah you can say that again - what are the wind speeds like at this part of the atmosphere?
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 1:24 PM on November 27, 2016
Forget power metal, I want to hear Babymetal sing about colonizing Titan!
posted by cstross at 1:30 PM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
posted by cstross at 1:30 PM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Okay, scratch my stupid jokey comment above. I already knew that there was very little oxygen in Titan's atmosphere, but for some reason I'd thought that small hydrocarbons, particularly methane, were a major component. Turns out that there's only about 5% gaseous methane at surface level, with nitrogen making up almost all the rest, which would be pretty much fire-resistant.
posted by hangashore at 1:38 PM on November 27, 2016
posted by hangashore at 1:38 PM on November 27, 2016
Humanity's Future: A world of farts and ice.
posted by blue_beetle at 1:46 PM on November 27, 2016
posted by blue_beetle at 1:46 PM on November 27, 2016
Yeah you can say that again - what are the wind speeds like at this part of the atmosphere?
Wind speeds in Saturn's atmosphere approach a couple hundred kilometers per hour regularly. This isn't a problem if you are riding in a balloon though since you just ride along with the wind. (Seriously, if you have never ridden a balloon, you have no idea how peaceful it is no matter what the weather seems to be doing around you.) But the shear forces between layers moving in different directions or at different speeds could probably be exploited. The temperature and pressure differentials are also pretty sharp; beneath the almost-habitable zone is a zone of much denser, turbulent gas. Of course we won't know the details of how to exploit it until we go and explore it in better detail. Which we're going to do, ummmmmm, okay well whatever.
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:59 PM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Wind speeds in Saturn's atmosphere approach a couple hundred kilometers per hour regularly. This isn't a problem if you are riding in a balloon though since you just ride along with the wind. (Seriously, if you have never ridden a balloon, you have no idea how peaceful it is no matter what the weather seems to be doing around you.) But the shear forces between layers moving in different directions or at different speeds could probably be exploited. The temperature and pressure differentials are also pretty sharp; beneath the almost-habitable zone is a zone of much denser, turbulent gas. Of course we won't know the details of how to exploit it until we go and explore it in better detail. Which we're going to do, ummmmmm, okay well whatever.
posted by Bringer Tom at 1:59 PM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Titan could be the only place in the solar system where it makes sense to build a permanent, self-sufficient human settlement.
Dude. We can't even be bothered to build a permanent, self-sufficient human settlement at the South Pole, let alone in space.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:27 PM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
Dude. We can't even be bothered to build a permanent, self-sufficient human settlement at the South Pole, let alone in space.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:27 PM on November 27, 2016 [1 favorite]
The South Pole is remarkably devoid of resources necessary to make a settlement there self-sufficient.
Other parts of Antarctica might be a bit more habitable; Kim Stanley Robinson gave the idea a really solid go in his book named after the continent.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:13 PM on November 27, 2016
Other parts of Antarctica might be a bit more habitable; Kim Stanley Robinson gave the idea a really solid go in his book named after the continent.
posted by Bringer Tom at 3:13 PM on November 27, 2016
"the only place beyond Earth" in the Universe?
That seems unlikely.
"There’s no reason to expect any extrasolar planet to be especially hospitable to terrestrial life, which evolved precisely here, at precisely this distance from precisely our sun at this precise moment between ice ages. The surface of another planet won’t look like a California studio backlot or the Vasquez Rock formations where the original Star Trek shot so often on location — it will look to us like Antarctica, or the pock-marked surface of the moon, or the Mariana Trench, or Hell. The Tau Ceti colonists are undertaking a task that will be almost unthinkably, unfathomably difficult — a lunatic task, which Western civilization has convinced itself is its destiny."
Given that my body tries to shut down when exposed to, like, pretty common species we're predators of that are found all over this planet where we're specialized to live, the chances of finding a world that's Earthlike but without living things or a world that's Earthlike and has living things compatible with our biology AND that can be reached with foreseeable engineering... seem pretty slim.
Oh, on checking, the Los Angeles Review of Books piece on Aurora, Seveneves and "lifeboat ethics" in sf that quote is taken from isn't even in the KSR.info review-dump page. It's here.
posted by The Bridge on the River Kai Ryssdal at 3:18 PM on November 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
That seems unlikely.
"There’s no reason to expect any extrasolar planet to be especially hospitable to terrestrial life, which evolved precisely here, at precisely this distance from precisely our sun at this precise moment between ice ages. The surface of another planet won’t look like a California studio backlot or the Vasquez Rock formations where the original Star Trek shot so often on location — it will look to us like Antarctica, or the pock-marked surface of the moon, or the Mariana Trench, or Hell. The Tau Ceti colonists are undertaking a task that will be almost unthinkably, unfathomably difficult — a lunatic task, which Western civilization has convinced itself is its destiny."
Given that my body tries to shut down when exposed to, like, pretty common species we're predators of that are found all over this planet where we're specialized to live, the chances of finding a world that's Earthlike but without living things or a world that's Earthlike and has living things compatible with our biology AND that can be reached with foreseeable engineering... seem pretty slim.
Oh, on checking, the Los Angeles Review of Books piece on Aurora, Seveneves and "lifeboat ethics" in sf that quote is taken from isn't even in the KSR.info review-dump page. It's here.
posted by The Bridge on the River Kai Ryssdal at 3:18 PM on November 27, 2016 [5 favorites]
Underground shelter is hard to build and not flexible or easy to expand. Settlers would need enormous excavations for room to supply all their needs for food, manufacturing and daily life. We ask why they would go to that trouble. We can live underground on Earth. What’s the advantage to doing so on Mars?
Or, what's the return on investment in leaving orbit and living on any planet? Transporting liquid energy back to earth would be expensive. Without a specific raw material to mine and process, the authors seem to be making a case for when the earth fails to be livable.
posted by Brian B. at 4:14 PM on November 27, 2016
Or, what's the return on investment in leaving orbit and living on any planet? Transporting liquid energy back to earth would be expensive. Without a specific raw material to mine and process, the authors seem to be making a case for when the earth fails to be livable.
posted by Brian B. at 4:14 PM on November 27, 2016
You say "Titanian" my brain goes "I am Titaaaaaaniummmmm"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:38 PM on November 27, 2016
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:38 PM on November 27, 2016
Practically, a Moon or Mars settlement would have to be built underground to be safe from this radiation. […] We ask why they would go to that trouble. We can live underground on Earth. What’s the advantage to doing so on Mars?Someone steer me straight, but this essay seems to be actively incoherent.
posted by lucidium at 7:25 PM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Cyborgs. We should put our money into becoming cyborgs. Being a human that can life in any environment, instead of moving to a given extraplanetary environment and then trying to turn it into Earth.
I'm dead serious. It will be cheaper all around.
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:40 PM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
I'm dead serious. It will be cheaper all around.
posted by AdamCSnider at 9:40 PM on November 27, 2016 [3 favorites]
Yes. In some sort of jar, I suppose.
posted by um at 9:53 PM on November 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
posted by um at 9:53 PM on November 27, 2016 [6 favorites]
Cyborgs. We should put our money into becoming cyborgs. Being a human that can life in any environment, instead of moving to a given extraplanetary environment and then trying to turn it into Earth.
That just seems fraught with complications.
(Although on a more serious note: yes, that seems a lot likelier to work than terraforming.)
posted by mordax at 1:39 AM on November 28, 2016
That just seems fraught with complications.
(Although on a more serious note: yes, that seems a lot likelier to work than terraforming.)
posted by mordax at 1:39 AM on November 28, 2016
It's true that "underground shelter is hard to build and not flexible or easy to expand", but they do so in Coober Pedy. And doing so sounds cheaper and safer than flying to Titan. It's even cheaper to build a sturdy building and pile a meter or so of dirt on top of it.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:30 AM on November 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 3:30 AM on November 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
This is the same Titan with seas of liquid methane?
Hey, I found another planet in the Solar system we can use! Earth! I mean, fixing Earth has got to be easier than terraforming moons of Saturn. If we can terraform, lets terraform a planet that's already 99% finished.
posted by mr_book at 5:00 AM on November 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hey, I found another planet in the Solar system we can use! Earth! I mean, fixing Earth has got to be easier than terraforming moons of Saturn. If we can terraform, lets terraform a planet that's already 99% finished.
posted by mr_book at 5:00 AM on November 28, 2016 [5 favorites]
Hey, I found another planet in the Solar system we can use! Earth! I mean, fixing Earth has got to be easier than terraforming moons of Saturn. If we can terraform, lets terraform a planet that's already 99% finished.
(Welcome to the last paragraph of the article, enjoy your stay.)
posted by tobascodagama at 5:48 AM on November 28, 2016
(Welcome to the last paragraph of the article, enjoy your stay.)
posted by tobascodagama at 5:48 AM on November 28, 2016
(Welcome to the last paragraph of the article, enjoy your stay.)
Yeah, I wasn't talking to the article.
posted by mr_book at 6:19 AM on November 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I wasn't talking to the article.
posted by mr_book at 6:19 AM on November 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Someone steer me straight, but this essay seems to be actively incoherent.
The authors just released a book, this is subtlety promoting that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 AM on November 28, 2016
The authors just released a book, this is subtlety promoting that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:21 AM on November 28, 2016
While I do think Humanity should have a backup facility in case of, oh, nuclear war/unexpected Chicxulub-scale meteor/accidentally creating strange matter, it seems unlikely to be Titan, John Varley's novels aside. I do like that it has a mostly nitrogen atmosphere, something lacking on Mars, but since its hydrosphere is hydrocarbons, with any water locked away underground (as I understand it), unless someone comes up with a need for unlimited methane/ethane, we'll probably leave Titan alone until after we get Earth orbit, the Lagrange points nearby, Mars, and likely the larger asteroids and near-Earth well established. Give it a couple of centuries of people (a big if) settling in space, and it will almost certainly happen. If instead all we continue to probe and send robots, there doesn't seem much point.
posted by Blackanvil at 8:38 AM on November 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by Blackanvil at 8:38 AM on November 28, 2016 [1 favorite]
Earth has got to be easier than terraforming moons of Saturn
The limited appeal of Titan is that you don't really need to terraform it; it's already *relatively* hospitable. RELATIVELY. Your dwellings don't need to be immobile spaceships, only airtight-ish, maybe even as "simple" as the NSF facilities at the south pole. You don't need spacesuits to go outside, only mega-duty arctic gear and a respirator (or conceivably we might find that the atmosphere just needs to be heated and have oxygen added to be tolerable for short periods; I dunno). You don't need to tunnel or bury to avoid radiation, and people can work outside without worrying about radiation.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:33 AM on November 28, 2016
The limited appeal of Titan is that you don't really need to terraform it; it's already *relatively* hospitable. RELATIVELY. Your dwellings don't need to be immobile spaceships, only airtight-ish, maybe even as "simple" as the NSF facilities at the south pole. You don't need spacesuits to go outside, only mega-duty arctic gear and a respirator (or conceivably we might find that the atmosphere just needs to be heated and have oxygen added to be tolerable for short periods; I dunno). You don't need to tunnel or bury to avoid radiation, and people can work outside without worrying about radiation.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:33 AM on November 28, 2016
Not to pile on, but... yeah. Oxygen. Earth itself is only livable for us because photosynthetic organisms have spent 3 billion years using the power of the sun to separate oxygen from carbon. The same applies, but to the power of N, to our ability to use fossil fuels as power - not possible without billions of years of photosynthesis. What's the power source on Titan?
posted by clawsoon at 10:59 AM on November 28, 2016
posted by clawsoon at 10:59 AM on November 28, 2016
We can live underground on Earth. What’s the advantage to doing so on Mars?
Other fun things I imagine this writer saying:
I can have cake anytime I want. What's so special about having it on my birthday?
There are thousands of children born every day. Why should I care about yours?
posted by GuyZero at 11:29 AM on November 28, 2016
Other fun things I imagine this writer saying:
I can have cake anytime I want. What's so special about having it on my birthday?
There are thousands of children born every day. Why should I care about yours?
posted by GuyZero at 11:29 AM on November 28, 2016
It's rather simple: Homo Sapien Sapiens are biologically equipped to live on Earth, it's where we've evolved, we are locked into the matrix of this planet in a way that keeps us totally moored here. It's cute to use science fiction tropes to project out to the colonization of other stellar bodies, but given our current state of biological and intellectual evolution, we're hardly ready to even consider the possibility of such a thing, much less actually making it happen. I strongly suspect that the standard model for interstellar travel of truly advanced species involves the use of advanced biological and cybernetics engineering, a separate sub-species of creatures designed for prolonged space exposure; the standard human body is far too weak and fragile for such exploration. These scenarios make for good fantasy, but that's about it, they're not doable, and won't be for many hundreds - if not thousands - of years, if ever.
posted by dbiedny at 2:24 PM on November 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by dbiedny at 2:24 PM on November 28, 2016 [2 favorites]
Oh hey 2016, nice of you to drop by.
Sure, humans won't be spending an lengthy time in space for the near future. But doctors warned of people dying from the shock of leaving Mother Earth when the Space Age began, so I'm leery of saying anything definitive about a hundred or a thousand years from now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:51 PM on November 28, 2016
Sure, humans won't be spending an lengthy time in space for the near future. But doctors warned of people dying from the shock of leaving Mother Earth when the Space Age began, so I'm leery of saying anything definitive about a hundred or a thousand years from now.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:51 PM on November 28, 2016
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posted by louche mustachio at 5:57 AM on November 27, 2016 [6 favorites]