“Shall we play a game?”

September 23, 2017 1:03 PM

The U.S. Navy's most advanced submarines will soon be using Xbox controllers [The Virginian Pilot] “The control room of one of the Navy’s most advanced submarines is filled with sophisticated computers, flat-screen monitors and sailors who grew up in a digital world. At times it can look a bit like a video game arcade, and not just because of the high-resolution graphics. The Navy is beginning to use an Xbox 360 controller – like the ones you find at the mall – to operate the periscopes aboard Virginia-class submarines. [...]

"The Xbox controller is no different than the ones a lot of crew members grew up playing with. Lockheed Martin says the sailors who tested the controller at its lab were intuitively able to figure out how to use it on their own within minutes, compared to hours of training required for the joystick. The Xbox controller also is significantly cheaper. The company says the photonic mast handgrip and imaging control panel that cost about $38,000 can be replaced with an Xbox controller that typically costs less than $30.”

posted by Fizz (35 comments total)

As soon as a defense contractor adds some kind of security to the USB connection between sub and Xbox controller, I wonder if that price will bump back up to $38k.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 1:15 PM on September 23, 2017 [5 favorites]

That's weird, because my impression of xbox controllers (I have two that I use for pc) is that they're sorta flimsy.

I will trade the Navy one for a photonic mast handgrip.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:35 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

I found a picture of the new periscopes.
posted by lagomorphius at 1:46 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

I'm sure X-box controllers are not built of mil-spec parts or assembled to IPC class 3 standards, which is why military parts are so expensive. I doubt they would last long in a submarine where they'll be dropped, crushed and yanked all the time. Is the plan to carry a crate of them for spares or have an Amazon drone drop them one when they need a new one?
posted by Grumpy old geek at 1:55 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

That's weird, because my impression of xbox controllers (I have two that I use for pc) is that they're sorta flimsy.

Oddly, I was thinking today about how well my PC's wired Xbox 360 controller has survived. I must have had it for getting on for a decade, at this point, and it's just as functional as it ever was. The wireless ones are junk though.
posted by howfar at 1:57 PM on September 23, 2017

On the one hand, I'm...creeped out by the notion of turning military activity into something game-like, which is also an objection to drones. I guess it's already happened, this is just a particularly stark example.

On the other hand, it makes sense; Microsoft did a bunch of work designing the damn things, why re-invent the wheel?

In conclusion, America is a land of contrasts.
posted by dismas at 1:58 PM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

I doubt they would last long in a submarine where they'll be dropped, crushed and yanked all the time

Unlike the gentle handling they get from teenage/drunk/just died the fourtieth time in the same fight in Dark Souls gamers?
posted by howfar at 1:58 PM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

I doubt they would last long in a submarine where they'll be dropped, crushed and yanked all the time.

Not to worry. The Duke, Xbox’s biggest controller of all time, will be in stores soon [Polygon]

“Every console has its quirks. Recall the three-legged controller on the N64 or, more recently, that weirdly placed eject button on the original PlayStation 4. Fans of the original Xbox will no doubt remember The Duke, the famously oversized controller that felt more like a small steering wheel. How’d you like a new one? Seamus Blackley, one of the designers of the original Xbox, has led the charge to recreate The Duke in all its glory for the Xbox One and Windows 10 machines. Together with peripherals manufacturer Hyperkin, he’s finally done it.

Here’s what the near-final version will look like.”

posted by Fizz at 2:00 PM on September 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Rock Candy Red would be handy during GCQ.
posted by clavdivs at 2:03 PM on September 23, 2017

The Rock Candy Red would be handy during GCQ.

But only when your buddy comes over. Your house ship, your console periscope. You get first dibs on controllers.
posted by Fizz at 2:09 PM on September 23, 2017

I recall a long time ago there was a picture of what looked a bomb disposal unit operating a robot with a PS2-style controller. It makes complete sense, as on the last 20 years companies have spent millions not making rectangle/kidney/bone shaped controllers that are either uncomfortable or downright nasty to use properly.

That's weird, because my impression of xbox controllers (I have two that I use for pc) is that they're sorta flimsy.
The 360 controllers are the sturdiest I ever had. Probably wouldn't survived being exploded on, but as far as consumer goods go, I have seen nothing that compares to them, other than some bespoke arcade controllers made out of real arcade parts housed in metal cases. The only problem is the soft rubber on the analogue pads and the usual problems with analogue sticks (eventually getting too loose and the dead zone overlapping with areas that return values).
posted by lmfsilva at 2:32 PM on September 23, 2017

Like something out of a William Gibson novel, simultaneously fascinating, hilarious, and terrifying.
posted by Beholder at 2:34 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh goodie - I get to be the first to mention Ender's Game...
posted by twsf at 2:41 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

So all along Xbox gamers have been The Last Starfighter?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:58 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Makes sense to me. Game controllers have a huge audience and have probably gone through many cycles of affordable design and testing.
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:33 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

What, so their mission isn't important enough to use mouse and keyboard?
posted by The Gaffer at 5:05 PM on September 23, 2017 [13 favorites]

I doubt they would last long in a submarine where they'll be dropped, crushed and yanked all the time.

I'm not sure how much time you've spent aboard a submarine, but I assure you the inside of a submarine is one of the safest and most stable locations I can imagine for a game controller. Certainly more so than any other Naval vessel which must contend with restless waves. On top of this, submarines already contain a great deal of controllers in the form of communal and personal entertainment equipment.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:30 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

For years the military built their hardware out of custom boards with hugely redundant circuitry and probably one of the neatest / most minimal hardware busses you could imagine. What happened though was: we went from 1960s computer technology to 1980s personal computers to the post 90s processor revolution based initially on the x86 architecture.

See, military systems were ruggedized and minimized, meaning they could survive conflict, but they were used sparingly because generally mechanical is easier to build for survival instead of electrical. The second you put a processor onboard is the second in 1960s military logic the thing had to fail both 'functional' and 'safe'. So when a missile blows up your controls system, you can still fire a torpedo the old fashioned way... x86 architecture is anything but stable. What is the impact of a buffer overflow or a blue screen of death on a nuclear submarine? But, 1960s architecture was slower than dirt, and couldn't be expanded. So the US military modernized, or has been modernizing and learning to adapt and utilize modern electronics.

To start, yes, it looks like an xbox controller, but rest assured that by the time things like this go to production it is generally an xbox controller on steroids. You'll notice, this is still tethered. You can't have something like battery life or a communications glitch adding a layer of failure to the system. Its easier to unplug and throw a new one in place.

This was initially built for a dry land simulator, designed to explore imaginary marine space to allow an operator to feel what it is like being in the water because - get this - in the worst case scenario, shit is being blown up and what feels natural - what feels like a game - what feels like virtual reality - is a solid way to make sure that people on board a vessel stay alive.

Point of view stems from 1999-2003 working on military contracts long since revolutionized in manners like this. I left this for cooking because I was working on things like this.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:45 PM on September 23, 2017 [5 favorites]

A submarine control room wouldn't be too hostile to a standard game controller. The abuse would be more likely in the engine room or machinery spaces. Bring a few spares, and they should be good to go.

Using a standard commercially-available controller sure beats custom mil-spec when you need to get a new one asap. There's no "the supply center says there's only one in the system, and it's in Guam." It's "hey sign this chit for a credit card buy, I'll go this afternoon."
posted by ctmf at 6:24 PM on September 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

It is absolutely crazy they are talking about this. Crazy. This should be classified.
posted by Oyéah at 6:30 PM on September 23, 2017

Not sure how knowing what shape the photonics mast controller is "could reasonably be expected to cause serious damage to the national security." I suppose someone could make a bunch of malware-ridden controllers and try to position themselves to be where someone buys a new one for the boat? Seems unlikely to do anything useful even if successful.
posted by ctmf at 6:45 PM on September 23, 2017

It is absolutely crazy they are talking about this. Crazy. This should be classified.

You don't recognize a recruitment strategy?
posted by davebush at 7:46 PM on September 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

I really feel for the junior officers who will be stuck using the Mad Catz controllers.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 7:55 PM on September 23, 2017 [13 favorites]

Quake 3 Arena was available for the Sega Dreamcast. And the Dreamcast had a modem! So you could play with your PC friends, who would flick-rail you out of the air repeatedly because you are stupidly using a Dreamcast controller to play q3a.
posted by adept256 at 9:23 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Agreeing with the above viz durability. Given their target demographic, Microsoft has probably spent considerable engineering effort over the last fifteen years making sure their controllers are highly resistant to seamen.
posted by 7segment at 9:32 PM on September 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

Makes sense to me, we use them to drive the robot in robotics club too.
posted by subdee at 10:10 PM on September 23, 2017

This will make it just that little bit easier to source props for future movies, thanks guys!
posted by Laotic at 10:31 PM on September 23, 2017

As the beef from the Af-Pak border
Well there's a the kid just a little bit taller
Than the assault rifle he rides with
Suicidal, he want a moonwalking Michael
Say he got bleached out and thinking of bleed now
One sparkly glove on his trigger hand
As he sings Man in the Mirror and leaps out
Brah, game over, we shot for the head, that's bonus points
The kid holding joint with Xbox controller
Who do you think flies the drones bruv?
posted by RakDaddy at 10:33 PM on September 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's funny how articles about the military having ingenious cost savings like this come about whenever there's talk of them failing or fudging their own internal audits, or their requests for getting whatever enormous fuckton of funding they should have.

"Jim, what gee whiz we saved a few hundred thousand on this sub story can we push out to the press to distract from the fact we spent billions on a sub that we probably don't need?"
posted by mrzarquon at 10:55 PM on September 23, 2017

I'm not sure how much time you've spent aboard a submarine, but I assure you the inside of a submarine is one of the safest and most stable locations I can imagine for a game controller.

This may be a weird tangent and slight derail but I've always wondered if the individuals who work inside of a submarine are allowed to have a cup of coffee or a bottle of water near by when they're on duty.

Like I know it's a weird thing to think about, but I'm at work and I'm allowed something to drink, as long as its in a covered container of some kind.

I assume people in submarines also get thirsty on the job.
posted by Fizz at 6:32 AM on September 24, 2017

It's like being in an office building, except none of the electrical, HVAC, or plumbing is hidden behind drywall or false ceilings. You can have coffee pretty much anywhere you want*, covered cup preferred/required depending on your chief of the boat. And you can't take the cups from the mess deck and leave them forgotten all around the boat or the COB will get upset.

That was my most frequent reason for having the COB upset with me.

*there are a couple of exceptions that make perfect sense, like the chemistry lab.
posted by ctmf at 8:41 AM on September 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Thanks for answering that. :)
posted by Fizz at 8:53 AM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

it's all fun and games until someone starts a shooting war by teabagging an enemy submarine
posted by poffin boffin at 10:43 AM on September 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

'Classified', 'Top Secret', and 'Secret' all get a little wonky and weird. There is nothing secret about a monitor, some vague controls and an xbox controller. Take a peek under the hood and start talking about the how - now that is a totally different story. Talk about different subsystems and how they interconnect and - yeah, thats not going to be discussed here. This is a vanilla press release. This is the movement from a sub utilizing a camera instead of actual optics. This is, how to put it... an obvious implementation.

Sure, you could learn how to hack an xbox controller, but without gaining physical access to the connected serial report it is still safe and basically ruggedized.
posted by Nanukthedog at 12:22 PM on September 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Speaking strictly as a gamer, I haaaaate the Xbox controller. It always feels bloated in my hands, no matter how small they make it. The Playstation controllers always felt better, like the buttons are always in reach and you can really mash buttons comfortably when you need to.
posted by numaner at 2:41 PM on September 24, 2017