Catholics opted for the poor, but the poor opted for the markets
October 24, 2017 4:11 AM Subscribe
The death and life of liberation theology.
Liberation Theology is a very Latin American movement.
The right considers it all a communist plot
Liberation theology, once reviled by the church, is embraced by Pope Francis
The Catholic vs. Libertarian debate continues. Is it just coincidence that the Koch brothers are pouring money into Catholic University's new business school.
Liberation Theology is a very Latin American movement.
The right considers it all a communist plot
Liberation theology, once reviled by the church, is embraced by Pope Francis
The Catholic vs. Libertarian debate continues. Is it just coincidence that the Koch brothers are pouring money into Catholic University's new business school.
More like "for profit" = "not for prophet."
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:56 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:56 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
"Is it just coincidence that the Koch brothers are pouring money into Catholic University's new business school."
No, no it's not, because CU is full of hacks. It's the only diocesan university in the US -- the rest are run by religious orders, like the Jesuits or CSCs or Dominicans -- and it's where clanging cymbals who couldn't get jobs at the higher-quality ordered universities and who complain bitterly about Catholics who love the poor TOO MUCH go to promote unorthodox ideologies that are somehow -- SOMEHOW! -- always aligned with the Republican party. I'm pretty sure CU's primary intellectual project is trying to prove Jesus didn't REALLY teach the preferential option for the poor.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:12 AM on October 24, 2017 [42 favorites]
No, no it's not, because CU is full of hacks. It's the only diocesan university in the US -- the rest are run by religious orders, like the Jesuits or CSCs or Dominicans -- and it's where clanging cymbals who couldn't get jobs at the higher-quality ordered universities and who complain bitterly about Catholics who love the poor TOO MUCH go to promote unorthodox ideologies that are somehow -- SOMEHOW! -- always aligned with the Republican party. I'm pretty sure CU's primary intellectual project is trying to prove Jesus didn't REALLY teach the preferential option for the poor.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:12 AM on October 24, 2017 [42 favorites]
The right considers it all a communist plot
They did get Pastor Tim that sweet job in South America.
posted by Dr Dracator at 5:28 AM on October 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
They did get Pastor Tim that sweet job in South America.
posted by Dr Dracator at 5:28 AM on October 24, 2017 [13 favorites]
I'm pretty sure CU's primary intellectual project is trying to prove Jesus didn't REALLY teach the preferential option for the poor.
I'm not particularly religious, but I've read most of the new testament, and it kind of boggles my mind how so many people seem to be reading an entirely different text that leaves out Jesus's preferential treatment towards the poor and marginalized. It's fascinating in the abstract, but kind of awful when you see that religious interpretation turned into public policy.
The main article is interesting and worth reading. I've always found liberation theology intriguing and something I am sympathetic to, especially for its articulation of the structural mechanisms of marginalization. But there is no getting around that while it has had impacts, the pull quote is correct -- people, by and large, chose a different path.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:33 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
I'm not particularly religious, but I've read most of the new testament, and it kind of boggles my mind how so many people seem to be reading an entirely different text that leaves out Jesus's preferential treatment towards the poor and marginalized. It's fascinating in the abstract, but kind of awful when you see that religious interpretation turned into public policy.
The main article is interesting and worth reading. I've always found liberation theology intriguing and something I am sympathetic to, especially for its articulation of the structural mechanisms of marginalization. But there is no getting around that while it has had impacts, the pull quote is correct -- people, by and large, chose a different path.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:33 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
My understanding is that the history of Catholic higher ed in the US is that Catholic orders realized that if they wanted Catholic young people to choose Catholic institutions over secular or elite Protestant universities, they had to make their universities as good as the alternatives. And if they wanted their universities to be really good, they had to permit a high degree of free thought. They decided not to have religious tests for faculty, and they decided not to dictate that teaching or research reinforce church teaching. And this mostly worked, at least if your goal is to have excellent Catholic institutions of higher ed that maintain a strong Catholic identity. Catholic young people go to those schools, encounter ideas that challenge their beliefs, and mostly realize that their Catholicism is strong enough to survive that challenge. And this model grew out of a particular US experience, which is that Catholic universities had to compete with secular and non-Catholic institutions, and they weren't going to be able to attract students if they didn't succeed on secular, as well as religious terms.
But CU is built on a really different model. It was founded by the bishops, with heavy involvement from the Vatican, and they weren't trying to compete with non-Catholic institutions. They wanted a university that was theologically correct, whose teaching and research reinforced church teachings. Catholics would go there because they wanted a correct Catholic educational experience, which is how they would measure educational quality. The result is that CU is mostly a pretty shitty school if you measure the quality of a school by anything but theological correctness.
The irony, of course, is that non-CU Catholic institutions are actually thriving because they are competing in a marketplace, the way people like the Kochs would say they should, while CU kind of sucks in part because it was ignoring market considerations in a way that people like the Kochs would say should doom it to failure.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:43 AM on October 24, 2017 [38 favorites]
But CU is built on a really different model. It was founded by the bishops, with heavy involvement from the Vatican, and they weren't trying to compete with non-Catholic institutions. They wanted a university that was theologically correct, whose teaching and research reinforced church teachings. Catholics would go there because they wanted a correct Catholic educational experience, which is how they would measure educational quality. The result is that CU is mostly a pretty shitty school if you measure the quality of a school by anything but theological correctness.
The irony, of course, is that non-CU Catholic institutions are actually thriving because they are competing in a marketplace, the way people like the Kochs would say they should, while CU kind of sucks in part because it was ignoring market considerations in a way that people like the Kochs would say should doom it to failure.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:43 AM on October 24, 2017 [38 favorites]
Relax. It's all part of God's plan.
posted by chavenet at 5:55 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chavenet at 5:55 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
It's the only diocesan university in the US -- the rest are run by religious orders, like the Jesuits or CSCs or Dominicans
Not to nitpick, but CUA is Pontifical, not Diocesan. But you're right that it isn't founded/run by a particular order. And that it's full of the worst of Catholicism's radical right.
posted by dis_integration at 6:02 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
Not to nitpick, but CUA is Pontifical, not Diocesan. But you're right that it isn't founded/run by a particular order. And that it's full of the worst of Catholicism's radical right.
posted by dis_integration at 6:02 AM on October 24, 2017 [7 favorites]
...I'm pretty sure CU's primary intellectual project is trying to prove Jesus didn't REALLY teach the preferential option for the poor.
As you do unto the least of my brothers,
at least make sure the rich get a tax cut.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
As you do unto the least of my brothers,
at least make sure the rich get a tax cut.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:03 AM on October 24, 2017 [2 favorites]
God's plan is poor people wanting clothes and food on the table and jobs instead of being noble suffering spiritual peasants? What a country!
posted by thelonius at 6:03 AM on October 24, 2017
posted by thelonius at 6:03 AM on October 24, 2017
When I was on the job market, CU was one of only two schools I saw (other was Pepperdine) that required some kind of faith statement as part of the application.
posted by dismas at 6:30 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dismas at 6:30 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Like even BYU didn't if I remember correctly. I didn't end up applying there because they expect faculty to uphold the dress code and I wanted to keep my beard.
posted by dismas at 6:31 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dismas at 6:31 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
From the fourth linked article: "[A]s one shantytown resident told me, wherever in the world Francis goes, “he takes the mud of the slums with him on his shoes.”
More leaders should do the same.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:44 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
More leaders should do the same.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:44 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
The church has placed profit before prophet since the First Council of Nicaea.
posted by DreamerFi at 6:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by DreamerFi at 6:50 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
"But CU is built on a really different model. It was founded by the bishops, with heavy involvement from the Vatican, and they weren't trying to compete with non-Catholic institutions. They wanted a university that was theologically correct, whose teaching and research reinforced church teachings."
Interesting. And now Francis is steering the Vatican towards liberation theology. Wonder how that will play out?
posted by jetsetsc at 7:03 AM on October 24, 2017
Interesting. And now Francis is steering the Vatican towards liberation theology. Wonder how that will play out?
posted by jetsetsc at 7:03 AM on October 24, 2017
"Not to nitpick, but CUA is Pontifical, not Diocesan. "
Yes, of course you're right. This is what I get for being theologically grumpy before 8 a.m.
"The result is that CU is mostly a pretty shitty school if you measure the quality of a school by anything but theological correctness. "
Oh, it's not that great on theological correctness either. They wouldn't be so enamored of the rich if they were theologically correct! In an amazing turn of events that surely has no explanation other than coincidence, CUA promotes the Republican party position on basically everything and claims that's orthodox Catholic theology. (Nobody tell them about unions! Their heads might explode!) Right now they're spending a shit-ton of time on how "Well, actually, you don't actually have to listen to the Pope ..." which is a big change from their tune under JPII and Benedict when it was, "NO OF COURSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS OF CONSCIOUS TO OBJECT TO ANY PAPAL STATEMENTS, EVER, UNDER ANY POPE, THEY'RE ALL RIGHT ALL THE TIME." So sad to be suffering from a campus-wide case of amnesia!
"My understanding is that the history of Catholic higher ed in the US is that Catholic orders realized that if they wanted Catholic young people to choose Catholic institutions over secular or elite Protestant universities, they had to make their universities as good as the alternatives."
The 1967 "Land O' Lakes Statement" is when a bunch of Catholic university presidents got together and studied the idea of a Catholic university and what that would mean in modern American society. Key point:
Catholic conservatives haaaaaaaate Land O' Lakes (google Land O' Lakes statement and you can see pages and pages of them railing against how it has Ruined America and Catholicism), and CUA isn't signed on. For the recent anniversary of the document, the then-president of the CUA wrote this incredibly smarmy editorial (printed in a second-tier Catholic newspaper, of course, because NCR* wouldn't print it because he's a haaaaaaaack with bad theology) about how "Well, actually, you have more academic freedom when you don't have academic freedom" and defines every Catholic university in the US except for his as not part of the Church.
(NCR is the National Catholic Reporter; amusingly, he had it printed in the National Catholic REGISTER, the knock-off conservative Catholic periodical that tries to trick people into thinking it's NCR by having the same initials, in the same kind of hacky piggybacking they are always trying because they can't manage to get anything up to the acceptable quality standards that would draw actually talented writers/professors/whatever.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:26 AM on October 24, 2017 [23 favorites]
Yes, of course you're right. This is what I get for being theologically grumpy before 8 a.m.
"The result is that CU is mostly a pretty shitty school if you measure the quality of a school by anything but theological correctness. "
Oh, it's not that great on theological correctness either. They wouldn't be so enamored of the rich if they were theologically correct! In an amazing turn of events that surely has no explanation other than coincidence, CUA promotes the Republican party position on basically everything and claims that's orthodox Catholic theology. (Nobody tell them about unions! Their heads might explode!) Right now they're spending a shit-ton of time on how "Well, actually, you don't actually have to listen to the Pope ..." which is a big change from their tune under JPII and Benedict when it was, "NO OF COURSE YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS OF CONSCIOUS TO OBJECT TO ANY PAPAL STATEMENTS, EVER, UNDER ANY POPE, THEY'RE ALL RIGHT ALL THE TIME." So sad to be suffering from a campus-wide case of amnesia!
"My understanding is that the history of Catholic higher ed in the US is that Catholic orders realized that if they wanted Catholic young people to choose Catholic institutions over secular or elite Protestant universities, they had to make their universities as good as the alternatives."
The 1967 "Land O' Lakes Statement" is when a bunch of Catholic university presidents got together and studied the idea of a Catholic university and what that would mean in modern American society. Key point:
"In a Catholic university all recognized university areas of study are frankly and fully accepted and their internal autonomy affirmed and guaranteed. There must be no theological or philosophical imperialism; all scientific and disciplinary methods, and methodologies, must be given due honor and respect. However, there will necessarily result from the interdisciplinary discussions an awareness that there is a philosophical and theological dimension to most intellectual subjects when they are pursued far enough."(That last bit basically means that if you're a biology major you're going to have to study ethics. If you're an econ major, you're going to have to study ethics. If you're an anything major, you're going to have to study ethics.)
Catholic conservatives haaaaaaaate Land O' Lakes (google Land O' Lakes statement and you can see pages and pages of them railing against how it has Ruined America and Catholicism), and CUA isn't signed on. For the recent anniversary of the document, the then-president of the CUA wrote this incredibly smarmy editorial (printed in a second-tier Catholic newspaper, of course, because NCR* wouldn't print it because he's a haaaaaaaack with bad theology) about how "Well, actually, you have more academic freedom when you don't have academic freedom" and defines every Catholic university in the US except for his as not part of the Church.
(NCR is the National Catholic Reporter; amusingly, he had it printed in the National Catholic REGISTER, the knock-off conservative Catholic periodical that tries to trick people into thinking it's NCR by having the same initials, in the same kind of hacky piggybacking they are always trying because they can't manage to get anything up to the acceptable quality standards that would draw actually talented writers/professors/whatever.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:26 AM on October 24, 2017 [23 favorites]
That first article on liberation theology is really good, btw. It's short, but he manages to hit a lot of really interesting points, like trends in Latin America towards Pentecostalism and its effect on the liberation theology movement; why liberation theology didn't really take root in the US; how it got to Latin America in the first place; etc.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:37 AM on October 24, 2017
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:37 AM on October 24, 2017
This takes me back 20 years to the obscure western Canadian liberal arts college I attended, which happened to be big on Latin America and Liberation Theology. There were exchange programs and charismatic professors who could tell you about oppression and liberation.
The choice to go with markets instead of liberation wasn't a completely free one; it was, let's say, "guided". It was very much like the response to Communism in the West during the Cold War: Violently suppress the movement promising to overthrow existing elites; offer the poor a modified market and safety net which makes their lives less miserable, without disrupting the existing order. Carrot and stick, in judicious combination. Limited democratic socialism, more-or-less.
U.S. ARMY SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
The choice to go with markets instead of liberation wasn't a completely free one; it was, let's say, "guided". It was very much like the response to Communism in the West during the Cold War: Violently suppress the movement promising to overthrow existing elites; offer the poor a modified market and safety net which makes their lives less miserable, without disrupting the existing order. Carrot and stick, in judicious combination. Limited democratic socialism, more-or-less.
U.S. ARMY SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS:
According to leaders of the opposition movement, the controversy is not limited to the School nor its graduates; but rather with U.S. foreign policy in Latin America. In their view, that policy is responsible for all the violence and repression that characterized many countries during the Cold War. The School is the easiest target for those people who believe solutions lie in eliminating military or police forces in the region. Many of the critics supported Marxism -- Liberation Theology -- in Latin America -- which was defeated with the assistance of the U.S. Army. In other words, their objective of achieving socialist revolutionary governments failed, and they now are going after one of the mechanisms which assisted in promoting and maintaining democratic ideals.posted by clawsoon at 8:01 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
> liberation theology didn't really take root in the US
In USA "market conditions," to borrow a phrase, have been from the start inhospitable to adoption of such doctrine except "deeply rooted" protestant traditions in"Black and African American" christology and ritual.
posted by marycatherine at 8:04 AM on October 24, 2017
In USA "market conditions," to borrow a phrase, have been from the start inhospitable to adoption of such doctrine except "deeply rooted" protestant traditions in"Black and African American" christology and ritual.
posted by marycatherine at 8:04 AM on October 24, 2017
Liberation theology is the source of the guiding principles of Partners In Health, one of the few bright spots in an increasingly dark human landscape. They build free healthcare systems for the poor (and anybody else).
posted by homerica at 8:15 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by homerica at 8:15 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
That first article on liberation theology is really good, btw. It's short, but he manages to hit a lot of really interesting points
It is interesting, but it struck me as pretty tendentious. Laying the rise of charismatic churches among the Catholic faithful at the feet of liberation theology is quite a stretch and, couched in terms of a eulogy, he basically says they are 1st world "limousine" radicals who didn't understand that the rural poor of the global south wanted to move to the city and buy TVs.
posted by I hate nature. at 8:31 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
It is interesting, but it struck me as pretty tendentious. Laying the rise of charismatic churches among the Catholic faithful at the feet of liberation theology is quite a stretch and, couched in terms of a eulogy, he basically says they are 1st world "limousine" radicals who didn't understand that the rural poor of the global south wanted to move to the city and buy TVs.
... they ignored the desire of the poor to become consumers. “The Catholics opted for the poor,” as the saying goes, but “the poor opted for the markets.”but if you are a Catholic in the "liberal" anglophone world, the idea that market economics is raising up the poor of the global south is close to catechism, but was never very close to Catholic doctrine, even under JPII. Now, with Francis, these guys are stuck between the Pope and Mel Gibson's dad... which I imagine isn't a very comfortable place to be. Hence, this sort of essay where the author is trying to politely bury liberation theology, but can't quite approach the fact that both doctrine and Pope are against market economics. He's being very careful when he says LT challenges church "tradition" because, broadly speaking, the challenge of LT wasn't really about doctrine but whether the church would "act."
Hence, liberation theology was but a moment. It was a particular theo-political response to a specific set of circumstances—a generation’s rebellion against grinding poverty in the killing fields of revolutionary Latin America. But the rich theology of the liberationists endures as a challenge to every church tradition.
posted by I hate nature. at 8:31 AM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
This takes me back 20 years
Me too. Well, 25 years. I went to a Catholic high school that was full of liberation theologist lay teachers. No particular reason, it just kind of happened. It was in all other regards an extremely normal urban girls' catholic college preparatory school. But I had to watch Romero multiple times for various classes and we learned a lot about Latin America.
My husband wound up briefly teaching there about 10 years ago, and the school had since been taken over by conservative Catholics via a giant money infusion from a local family who are conservative. The teachers who were formerly outspoken had to shut up, and last I heard most of them were just quietly biding their time until they could retire. That made me so sad to hear. I'm not religious, but I wound up with a lot of warm feelings towards Catholicism over various other Christian denominations because of the concern for the poor and oppressed that I saw on display there.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:34 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
Me too. Well, 25 years. I went to a Catholic high school that was full of liberation theologist lay teachers. No particular reason, it just kind of happened. It was in all other regards an extremely normal urban girls' catholic college preparatory school. But I had to watch Romero multiple times for various classes and we learned a lot about Latin America.
My husband wound up briefly teaching there about 10 years ago, and the school had since been taken over by conservative Catholics via a giant money infusion from a local family who are conservative. The teachers who were formerly outspoken had to shut up, and last I heard most of them were just quietly biding their time until they could retire. That made me so sad to hear. I'm not religious, but I wound up with a lot of warm feelings towards Catholicism over various other Christian denominations because of the concern for the poor and oppressed that I saw on display there.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:34 AM on October 24, 2017 [9 favorites]
"Laying the rise of charismatic churches among the Catholic faithful at the feet of liberation theology is quite a stretch"
Oh, I didn't think that's what he was claiming -- I thought he was saying that while the liberation theologians were preaching to the poor, there was already a movement on the ground towards Pentecostal churches that (in retrospect!) is quite clear, but as it was beginning wasn't very visible. And, rather, that some of the decline of liberation theology is down to the fact that so many of the poor in Latin America have shifted to Pentecostal groups, so a Catholic movement doesn't have as big a constituency to draw from.
"He's being very careful when he says LT challenges church "tradition" "
Again, I read that slightly differently: the author is the past president of the American Society of Missology (people who study missionary activity), which is an ecumenical organization. He says "But the rich theology of the liberationists endures as a challenge to every church tradition." Pretty clearly in context he's not talking about Catholic Church tradition-with-a-capital-T (he'd say "challenge to Church tradition" if he were) -- "every church tradition" means "Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, etc etc etc." It's a pretty stock phrase in ecumenical writing. Basically, any Christian church now has to confront the ideas of liberation theology, and can't ignore them or dismiss them.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:43 AM on October 24, 2017
Oh, I didn't think that's what he was claiming -- I thought he was saying that while the liberation theologians were preaching to the poor, there was already a movement on the ground towards Pentecostal churches that (in retrospect!) is quite clear, but as it was beginning wasn't very visible. And, rather, that some of the decline of liberation theology is down to the fact that so many of the poor in Latin America have shifted to Pentecostal groups, so a Catholic movement doesn't have as big a constituency to draw from.
"He's being very careful when he says LT challenges church "tradition" "
Again, I read that slightly differently: the author is the past president of the American Society of Missology (people who study missionary activity), which is an ecumenical organization. He says "But the rich theology of the liberationists endures as a challenge to every church tradition." Pretty clearly in context he's not talking about Catholic Church tradition-with-a-capital-T (he'd say "challenge to Church tradition" if he were) -- "every church tradition" means "Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, etc etc etc." It's a pretty stock phrase in ecumenical writing. Basically, any Christian church now has to confront the ideas of liberation theology, and can't ignore them or dismiss them.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:43 AM on October 24, 2017
Pretty clearly in context he's not talking about Catholic Church tradition-with-a-capital-T (he'd say "challenge to Church tradition" if he were) -- "every church tradition" means "Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, etc etc etc."
Ha. Touché. I read the first link as someone uncomfortable with Francis, but I could be very wrong... it's interesting either way.
posted by I hate nature. at 9:34 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ha. Touché. I read the first link as someone uncomfortable with Francis, but I could be very wrong... it's interesting either way.
posted by I hate nature. at 9:34 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]
I was in a Catholic high school in 1986-90, and I heard a lot about Liberation Theology. As a kid we rolled our eyes at most of what the religion teachers said, but the idea of actually serving the poor sure sounded a lot more just than what we had learned about Church history (e.g., indulgences).
I don't remembering watching "Romero," but I believe that a bunch of my classmates did see the movie "Pixote" (about Sao Paolo's slum children).
Still liking this pope.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:41 AM on October 24, 2017
I don't remembering watching "Romero," but I believe that a bunch of my classmates did see the movie "Pixote" (about Sao Paolo's slum children).
Still liking this pope.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:41 AM on October 24, 2017
My daughter goes to a small college run by the Benedictines in New Hampshire. They emphasize community service and volunteering like crazy.
Her summer orientation trip included a day of volunteering, her first month on campus she signed up to drive to Philadelphia to work in a soup kitchen for the weekend, she's going to work in a shelter in Maine for "alternative spring break," and she has applied to be on a 130-mile charity walk from Maine to the campus gates next August.
The kids wear t-shirts from their events, and the backs of many have "Engage with intention" printed on them.
They don't explicitly teach liberation theology (as far as I know), but by putting students in immediate contact with others, the lessons of service and interconnectedness are impossible to miss.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:46 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
Her summer orientation trip included a day of volunteering, her first month on campus she signed up to drive to Philadelphia to work in a soup kitchen for the weekend, she's going to work in a shelter in Maine for "alternative spring break," and she has applied to be on a 130-mile charity walk from Maine to the campus gates next August.
The kids wear t-shirts from their events, and the backs of many have "Engage with intention" printed on them.
They don't explicitly teach liberation theology (as far as I know), but by putting students in immediate contact with others, the lessons of service and interconnectedness are impossible to miss.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:46 AM on October 24, 2017 [3 favorites]
The result is that CU is mostly a pretty shitty school if you measure the quality of a school by anything but theological correctness.
:-( I went to the Library & Info Science Master's program at CU. I can recommend that school at least.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:24 PM on October 24, 2017
:-( I went to the Library & Info Science Master's program at CU. I can recommend that school at least.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:24 PM on October 24, 2017
Still liking this pope.
The situation is very much more complex than all this. Pope Francis just recently fired Gerhard Cardinal Mueller. The "conservative" Cardinal was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (the office in charge of, among other things, ensuring the orthodoxy of Church teaching). OK... well that's a liberal move you think. But Mueller was also the most highly placed Vatican proponent of liberation theology. He was a student (and defender) of Gustavo Gutierrez, one of the founders of what we call liberation theology.
Even Pope Benedict/Cardinal Ratzinger, often portrayed as an opponent of liberation theology... well the story is more mixed. Yes, when he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), they issued a document critical of certain aspects of liberation theology, called the Instruction on Certain Aspects of the "Theology of Liberation". But the CDF also issued a document the Instruction on Christian Freedom and Liberation which positively discusses the insights that had been developed by the liberation theologians. The two documents need to be read together and reading them as solely a rejection of or crackdown on liberation theology is a mistake.
Meanwhile, remember that in the time of the heyday of liberation theology in South America, Jorge Bergolio was considered a conservative as a Jesuit Superior. And his use of themes from liberation theology as Pope is really not a mark of radicalism (which is perhaps found elsewhere in his theology), but the continuance of the balanced approach of Ratzinger, Mueller, et al. favorably described in this article (the part by Filippo Santoro after the introduction by Sandro Magister)... which includes an account of how Bergolio was essential to putting faith as well as liberation at the center of the Apericida document.
posted by Jahaza at 12:43 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
The situation is very much more complex than all this. Pope Francis just recently fired Gerhard Cardinal Mueller. The "conservative" Cardinal was the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (the office in charge of, among other things, ensuring the orthodoxy of Church teaching). OK... well that's a liberal move you think. But Mueller was also the most highly placed Vatican proponent of liberation theology. He was a student (and defender) of Gustavo Gutierrez, one of the founders of what we call liberation theology.
Even Pope Benedict/Cardinal Ratzinger, often portrayed as an opponent of liberation theology... well the story is more mixed. Yes, when he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), they issued a document critical of certain aspects of liberation theology, called the Instruction on Certain Aspects of the "Theology of Liberation". But the CDF also issued a document the Instruction on Christian Freedom and Liberation which positively discusses the insights that had been developed by the liberation theologians. The two documents need to be read together and reading them as solely a rejection of or crackdown on liberation theology is a mistake.
Meanwhile, remember that in the time of the heyday of liberation theology in South America, Jorge Bergolio was considered a conservative as a Jesuit Superior. And his use of themes from liberation theology as Pope is really not a mark of radicalism (which is perhaps found elsewhere in his theology), but the continuance of the balanced approach of Ratzinger, Mueller, et al. favorably described in this article (the part by Filippo Santoro after the introduction by Sandro Magister)... which includes an account of how Bergolio was essential to putting faith as well as liberation at the center of the Apericida document.
posted by Jahaza at 12:43 PM on October 24, 2017 [4 favorites]
Guardian Long Read.
Pope Francis is one of the most hated men in the world today.
Those who hate him most are not atheists, or protestants, or Muslims, but some of his own followers.
“We can’t wait for him to die. It’s unprintable what we say in private. Whenever two priests meet, they talk about how awful Bergoglio is … he’s like Caligula: if he had a horse, he’d make him cardinal.”
posted by adamvasco at 4:54 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Pope Francis is one of the most hated men in the world today.
Those who hate him most are not atheists, or protestants, or Muslims, but some of his own followers.
“We can’t wait for him to die. It’s unprintable what we say in private. Whenever two priests meet, they talk about how awful Bergoglio is … he’s like Caligula: if he had a horse, he’d make him cardinal.”
posted by adamvasco at 4:54 AM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Thanks, adamvasco; that's a good read.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:44 AM on October 27, 2017
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:44 AM on October 27, 2017
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posted by nickggully at 4:44 AM on October 24, 2017 [1 favorite]