F*ck if Jack cared that Rose had frozen snot plastered to her face
December 20, 2017 4:38 PM Subscribe
We’re a generation that happily blogs and Tumblrs and inspo-boards across the messy, dorky spectrum of female-focused retro-fandom, from My So-Called Life to Mean Girls to Buffy to Hocus Pocus, but if someone mentions Titanic at a three-bellini brunch, every woman in attendance will suddenly receive a crucial text message the length of Billy Zane’s fake widow’s peak.Titanic is the one we don’t talk about—the middle-school boyfriend with the bad mustache whose picture we keep buried in the sock drawer.
Still haven't seen it. Picked up the whole movie through cultural osmosis. Like how I know about Pokemon.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:48 PM on December 20, 2017 [48 favorites]
posted by leotrotsky at 4:48 PM on December 20, 2017 [48 favorites]
I associate the first half of the movie with my 10-year-old self kicking a boy in the groin after my friend's mom sent us to go out to play after the first VHS tape ran out (Titanic came in two VHS tapes and it was a Big Deal) and this boy was buddies with my friend's brother and annoying the hell out of me so I went and kicked him
and got sent home before I could see the second VHS tape. Reckon that's symbolic or something.
posted by lineofsight at 4:59 PM on December 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
and got sent home before I could see the second VHS tape. Reckon that's symbolic or something.
posted by lineofsight at 4:59 PM on December 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
As Stephenie Meyer, mother of the most female and thus most uncool franchise since Titanic put it ...
Once again I feel the tension between deploring the historical devaluation of popular women’s interests and the fact that some of those interests are fucking awful.
I hated Titanic because the history was bad. I hated Twilight because the vampiring was bad.* But I am glad at least that today, with the internet, young women have a place to hash out what’s problematic, what’s important, and what they truly value. And I’m glad the author wrote this defense of what young women love.
——
* Also, both of their lead actors are cold fish to me. But my first crush was Freddie Mercury, so I guess I was never in this particular market, or even in the same mall.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:59 PM on December 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
Once again I feel the tension between deploring the historical devaluation of popular women’s interests and the fact that some of those interests are fucking awful.
I hated Titanic because the history was bad. I hated Twilight because the vampiring was bad.* But I am glad at least that today, with the internet, young women have a place to hash out what’s problematic, what’s important, and what they truly value. And I’m glad the author wrote this defense of what young women love.
——
* Also, both of their lead actors are cold fish to me. But my first crush was Freddie Mercury, so I guess I was never in this particular market, or even in the same mall.
posted by Countess Elena at 4:59 PM on December 20, 2017 [36 favorites]
(also, gotta say, I cried when the Irish woman was telling fairy stories to her drowning kids and I hated myself for that)
posted by Countess Elena at 5:00 PM on December 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 5:00 PM on December 20, 2017 [13 favorites]
I saw Titanic as a teenager with my first girlfriend. I was shocked that she hated it and spent the entire ride home making fun of the romance aspects. I liked it.
Having seen it once as an adult, I now more or less agree with all of her specific points. But, if you view Maggie Brown and the old couple who die in bed as the real heart of the film, and all the rest as the filler needed to sell a one minute narrative to a theater audience, it's still a really good movie.
Fortunately, having grown up as a boy in the 80s, I don't need to defend my childhood passions. Because the entire media industry is tripping over itself to do it for me and to find a way to that profit from that nostalgia, no matter how crass and stupid the result.
posted by eotvos at 5:01 PM on December 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
Having seen it once as an adult, I now more or less agree with all of her specific points. But, if you view Maggie Brown and the old couple who die in bed as the real heart of the film, and all the rest as the filler needed to sell a one minute narrative to a theater audience, it's still a really good movie.
Fortunately, having grown up as a boy in the 80s, I don't need to defend my childhood passions. Because the entire media industry is tripping over itself to do it for me and to find a way to that profit from that nostalgia, no matter how crass and stupid the result.
posted by eotvos at 5:01 PM on December 20, 2017 [25 favorites]
Does 1990's 'Ghost' fit in the same category as 'Titanic?' When I was young, girls looooved 'Ghost.' Some had seen it 2 or 3 times.
Anyway, as a dad of 2 girls. I hope I can avoid dismissing their entertainment. I admit I do get annoyed at the videos my oldest watches on Youtube. Candy reviews! *shudder*
posted by hot_monster at 5:24 PM on December 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
Anyway, as a dad of 2 girls. I hope I can avoid dismissing their entertainment. I admit I do get annoyed at the videos my oldest watches on Youtube. Candy reviews! *shudder*
posted by hot_monster at 5:24 PM on December 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
I liked reading something about clinging to whatever shitty bully-"friends" and shitty pop culture you could even barely tolerate as a 13 year old girl in 1997. I really identified with that. I don't remember having any particular opinion about the movie but that Celine Dion song wrecked me emotionally.
posted by bleep at 5:24 PM on December 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by bleep at 5:24 PM on December 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Pop culture in 1997 was sooooo bad. Every day I'm glad we're past it.
posted by bleep at 5:26 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by bleep at 5:26 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've only seen it once at the cinema, and I'm mostly bemused that it's become this... thing, even if I am right in the middle of that teen girl demographic. I didn't like it for the longest time because I don't care for the main romance but I didn't totally hate it because I absolutely cried at everyone else who died, especially the old couple. My review used to be that I was glad for Rose and Jack because whenever they're on, it gave me a break from crying.
posted by cendawanita at 5:27 PM on December 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 5:27 PM on December 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
the old couple who die in bed
Incidentally, that would presumably be Ida and Isidore Straus; Isidore was the co-owner of Macy's.
I was not the right age or gender to fall into the demographic she is talking about, but I was a Titanic enthusiast when I was young. Having visited the exhibit at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic a couple of years before the movie came out, I looked with wonder at the then-largest chunk of the ship extant above sea level and and subsequently chortled when I saw the end of the movie. I can only imagine the effect seeing these things in the other order must have had on many visitors to the museum.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:31 PM on December 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
Incidentally, that would presumably be Ida and Isidore Straus; Isidore was the co-owner of Macy's.
I was not the right age or gender to fall into the demographic she is talking about, but I was a Titanic enthusiast when I was young. Having visited the exhibit at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic a couple of years before the movie came out, I looked with wonder at the then-largest chunk of the ship extant above sea level and and subsequently chortled when I saw the end of the movie. I can only imagine the effect seeing these things in the other order must have had on many visitors to the museum.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:31 PM on December 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
"He just should have tried harder to get on that door."
posted by juv3nal at 5:36 PM on December 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by juv3nal at 5:36 PM on December 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
It looks wonderful - beautifully shot, the special effects are amazing. The acting and storyline though....
On the other hand, it's got O'Brien from Star Trek AND Victor Newman from Young & the Restless!
posted by Chrysostom at 5:41 PM on December 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, it's got O'Brien from Star Trek AND Victor Newman from Young & the Restless!
posted by Chrysostom at 5:41 PM on December 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've seen pieces of it, never the whole way through. I think I once saw from the beginning to when the iceberg hits them, and then my interest sort of faded away. Is it any good?
posted by signal at 5:44 PM on December 20, 2017
posted by signal at 5:44 PM on December 20, 2017
Fortunately, having grown up as a boy in the 80s, I don't need to defend my childhood passions. Because the entire media industry is tripping over itself to do it for me and to find a way to that profit from that nostalgia, no matter how crass and stupid the result.
I, too, am ready to watch Ready Player One.
posted by zabuni at 5:46 PM on December 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
I, too, am ready to watch Ready Player One.
posted by zabuni at 5:46 PM on December 20, 2017 [23 favorites]
My latest podcast obsession, Blank Check, covered Titanic in two episodes. Both the hosts (an actor and a film critic) and the two guests (columnists) are huge fans. It's a great listen, as somebody who saw the movie once or twice decades ago and mostly only remember it from cultural osmosis.
posted by kmz at 5:47 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by kmz at 5:47 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
I remember reading an interview with Edward Albee where he said that he watched Titanic with the sound off and that way it was a good movie. I've contemplated doing that ever since I read it (over a decade ago at this point), but I never have. I could imagine that the visuals work better telling the story alone than they do with the sound.
I was one of those teen girls, but it isn't one of the cultural artifacts from my middle school years that I think about often. At the time I saw Titanic multiple times, I was also obsessed with Phantom of the Opera, Rent, and Les Miserables. The musicals have a lot more emotional weight with me, but the weight is similar to what the author describes that I totally get it. I still love Rent and Les Miz... I also feel weirdly defensive about them in the way the author describes. And both of those are a lot more acceptable for people to like.
There's so few things that really speak to the aspirations of being a tween girl. Since I've already made this comment about show tunes... I'm oddly jealous of the kids who were a decade younger than me and grew up with Wicked. Wicked is also derided culturally for being for teen girls, but it's a musical about female friendship... those kids had Elphaba and Glinda to sing along with and imagine about. At best, I had Joanne from Rent and at worst, I had Christine from Phantom. There's such a need for things that actually focus on feminine experiences in a way that show tune singing tween girls would relate to. If I could time travel musical soundtracks back to my tween self, I'd choose Wicked and Hairspray over Hamilton, even though adult me likes Hamilton a lot more.
To bring it back to Titanic, if you haven't listened to Postmodern Jukebox's Motown My Heart Will Go On, you really should.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 5:50 PM on December 20, 2017 [34 favorites]
I was one of those teen girls, but it isn't one of the cultural artifacts from my middle school years that I think about often. At the time I saw Titanic multiple times, I was also obsessed with Phantom of the Opera, Rent, and Les Miserables. The musicals have a lot more emotional weight with me, but the weight is similar to what the author describes that I totally get it. I still love Rent and Les Miz... I also feel weirdly defensive about them in the way the author describes. And both of those are a lot more acceptable for people to like.
There's so few things that really speak to the aspirations of being a tween girl. Since I've already made this comment about show tunes... I'm oddly jealous of the kids who were a decade younger than me and grew up with Wicked. Wicked is also derided culturally for being for teen girls, but it's a musical about female friendship... those kids had Elphaba and Glinda to sing along with and imagine about. At best, I had Joanne from Rent and at worst, I had Christine from Phantom. There's such a need for things that actually focus on feminine experiences in a way that show tune singing tween girls would relate to. If I could time travel musical soundtracks back to my tween self, I'd choose Wicked and Hairspray over Hamilton, even though adult me likes Hamilton a lot more.
To bring it back to Titanic, if you haven't listened to Postmodern Jukebox's Motown My Heart Will Go On, you really should.
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 5:50 PM on December 20, 2017 [34 favorites]
Oh dear lord, that cover! That is dynamite!
posted by limeonaire at 6:09 PM on December 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
posted by limeonaire at 6:09 PM on December 20, 2017 [7 favorites]
It wasn't any stupider that Game of Thrones.
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:15 PM on December 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 6:15 PM on December 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
To this day, I have not watched more than 10 minutes of Titanic. But it's for reasons so petty and stubborn, this article is able to speak to my embarrassing teenage self anyway.
I remember attending a student debate about whether or not Titanic was the best movie of the year. I think it had been out for about a minute at this point, and I was leaning against seeing the movie because that primal embarrassment of my mom encompassed Historical Romance.
There's this plus sized student gushes over how brave it is to have Kate Winslet as the lead, considering her size. And my mind seized on this praise with blind fury. I hadn't started to unpack all those body issues. I chalked it up to an extension of puberty. Once we grew up, they'd go away. This was the first comment that twigged me to the fact that might not be the case.
And like a normal teenager, I dealt with this realization by avoiding the movie and bitching that apparently some people don't know what fat looks like.
posted by politikitty at 6:17 PM on December 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
I remember attending a student debate about whether or not Titanic was the best movie of the year. I think it had been out for about a minute at this point, and I was leaning against seeing the movie because that primal embarrassment of my mom encompassed Historical Romance.
There's this plus sized student gushes over how brave it is to have Kate Winslet as the lead, considering her size. And my mind seized on this praise with blind fury. I hadn't started to unpack all those body issues. I chalked it up to an extension of puberty. Once we grew up, they'd go away. This was the first comment that twigged me to the fact that might not be the case.
And like a normal teenager, I dealt with this realization by avoiding the movie and bitching that apparently some people don't know what fat looks like.
posted by politikitty at 6:17 PM on December 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Anyway, as a dad of 2 girls. I hope I can avoid dismissing their entertainment.
I don't know... My parents did me a huge favor in retrospect by mercilessly mocking Knight Rider, MacGyver and the A Team.
posted by Coventry at 6:27 PM on December 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I don't know... My parents did me a huge favor in retrospect by mercilessly mocking Knight Rider, MacGyver and the A Team.
posted by Coventry at 6:27 PM on December 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
On the other hand, it's got O'Brien from Star Trek
Yep- even in a whole different timeline, Chief can't catch a fucking break.
Wait...Colm Meaney wasn't in Titanic!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:42 PM on December 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
Yep- even in a whole different timeline, Chief can't catch a fucking break.
Wait...Colm Meaney wasn't in Titanic!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 6:42 PM on December 20, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was reading through some of the articles and I thought this comment was interesting!
Jack Dawson is one of the few examples I can think of, of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl (a beautiful, vivid love interest who has no real interior life of their own that the film's interested in developing but exists solely to have a relationship with the protagonist, and said protagonist grows and develops as a character because of said relationship) done as a boy, for a female protagonist.
posted by xdvesper at 6:49 PM on December 20, 2017 [62 favorites]
Jack Dawson is one of the few examples I can think of, of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl (a beautiful, vivid love interest who has no real interior life of their own that the film's interested in developing but exists solely to have a relationship with the protagonist, and said protagonist grows and develops as a character because of said relationship) done as a boy, for a female protagonist.
posted by xdvesper at 6:49 PM on December 20, 2017 [62 favorites]
Oh man, get out of my head, Claire Shefchik.
I’d always been a writer, but I was becoming a creator, and a capital-R Romantic, who, as F. Scott Fitzgerald put it, “hopes against hope that things won’t last,” who prays to find somebody to love so she can tell the story of how she lost him, and make it better in the telling.
Quoting This Side of Paradise—be still my heart. And this dovetails well with what you said, xdvesper, about manic pixie dream dudes. Long story short: Manic pixie dream dudes are highly underrated and have really been one of the best kickstarts to my writing process at various points. If guys like Ben Gibbard can write and sing about impossible, forbidden romance and be taken seriously for it, why can't women? There's a reason I regularly refer back to the notion of Corey Flood in Say Anything, tagging songs I write with her name, 'cause I'll be damned if impossible dudes aren't some of the best inspiration, however pathetic that character was meant to be. I mean, the entirety of This Side of Paradise is one romantic paean after the next to one manic pixie dream girl or another—why not claim that energy for our own? Or, y'know, as William Wordsworth said in the preface to Lyrical Ballads, "Poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: It takes its origin from emotion recollected in tranquility."
Anyway, with regard to Titanic specifically, I dragged my friends along to see that for my birthday party when it was in the theater, and Kimothy and one of our guy friends spent the movie making fun of it and throwing popcorn at the rest of us. It was great.
posted by limeonaire at 7:22 PM on December 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
I’d always been a writer, but I was becoming a creator, and a capital-R Romantic, who, as F. Scott Fitzgerald put it, “hopes against hope that things won’t last,” who prays to find somebody to love so she can tell the story of how she lost him, and make it better in the telling.
Quoting This Side of Paradise—be still my heart. And this dovetails well with what you said, xdvesper, about manic pixie dream dudes. Long story short: Manic pixie dream dudes are highly underrated and have really been one of the best kickstarts to my writing process at various points. If guys like Ben Gibbard can write and sing about impossible, forbidden romance and be taken seriously for it, why can't women? There's a reason I regularly refer back to the notion of Corey Flood in Say Anything, tagging songs I write with her name, 'cause I'll be damned if impossible dudes aren't some of the best inspiration, however pathetic that character was meant to be. I mean, the entirety of This Side of Paradise is one romantic paean after the next to one manic pixie dream girl or another—why not claim that energy for our own? Or, y'know, as William Wordsworth said in the preface to Lyrical Ballads, "Poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: It takes its origin from emotion recollected in tranquility."
Anyway, with regard to Titanic specifically, I dragged my friends along to see that for my birthday party when it was in the theater, and Kimothy and one of our guy friends spent the movie making fun of it and throwing popcorn at the rest of us. It was great.
posted by limeonaire at 7:22 PM on December 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
It wasn't any stupider that Game of Thrones.
Martin GoT, or committee-of-writers GoT? I stopped watching in disgust when a certain character who really should have stayed dead, didn't.
posted by Coventry at 7:27 PM on December 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Martin GoT, or committee-of-writers GoT? I stopped watching in disgust when a certain character who really should have stayed dead, didn't.
posted by Coventry at 7:27 PM on December 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
I thought at the time, and I still pretty much think (warning, potential sacrilege ahead): that Titanic was the next generation's Star Wars. Not a great film, not the best acting or dialogue, but a fantastic movie that sucked you into its bigger-than-life world and made you want to be there again and again. But - and I agree with TFA here - because it hit so perfectly with tween girls instead of teen boys, it was never allowed to be considered good, let alone important. Plus it would have made lousy action figures.
posted by Mchelly at 7:56 PM on December 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 7:56 PM on December 20, 2017 [14 favorites]
To bring it back to Titanic, if you haven't listened to Postmodern Jukebox's Motown My Heart Will Go On yt , you really should.
Wow. That was amazing.
posted by Mchelly at 7:58 PM on December 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Wow. That was amazing.
posted by Mchelly at 7:58 PM on December 20, 2017 [6 favorites]
Plus it would have made lousy action figures.
What are you talking about? The Grand Staircase Playset comes with Billy Zane figures in morning dress and white tie!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:02 PM on December 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
What are you talking about? The Grand Staircase Playset comes with Billy Zane figures in morning dress and white tie!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:02 PM on December 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
TheWhiteSkull: "Wait...Colm Meaney wasn't in Titanic!"
Holy shitballs, you're right, that was Victor Garber! I would have sworn like anything that was Colm Meaney.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:06 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Holy shitballs, you're right, that was Victor Garber! I would have sworn like anything that was Colm Meaney.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:06 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
Don’t forget that the storytelling Irish woman was Vasquez in Aliens.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:08 PM on December 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 8:08 PM on December 20, 2017 [8 favorites]
My wife and I watched in the theater when it came out, and a couple of days later both of us were somewhat shocked that we really wanted to see it again. So we did. It's still very watchable.
The movie does what pretty much all Cameron movies from The Abyss onward do: Marry immense and often groundbreaking cinematic wizardry with stories that are simplistic enough that audiences don't feel like they've gotten lost in the technical weeds. The relative familiarity and comfort of their narratives allow Cameron to push boundaries on the craft side of filmmaking. Given the massive financial success of Titanic and Avatar, it's difficult to argue that this formula doesn't work well for Cameron.
posted by jscalzi at 8:09 PM on December 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
The movie does what pretty much all Cameron movies from The Abyss onward do: Marry immense and often groundbreaking cinematic wizardry with stories that are simplistic enough that audiences don't feel like they've gotten lost in the technical weeds. The relative familiarity and comfort of their narratives allow Cameron to push boundaries on the craft side of filmmaking. Given the massive financial success of Titanic and Avatar, it's difficult to argue that this formula doesn't work well for Cameron.
posted by jscalzi at 8:09 PM on December 20, 2017 [18 favorites]
I loved the movie when it came out in part for to it's general historical accuracy. A lot of the dialogue you hear in the background and from incidental characters is taken straight from the recounting of conversations in the Congressional Inquest. (Did I read every transcript? You bet your sweet bippy I did.) The design of the ship, the clothes, etc. are all done to a T. The drunk chef clinging to the stern of the boat? It happened, and that's how he survived. He said he just stepped off when it reached water level. I was in it so much for those moments, all those things I'd read about for years.
And for Victor Garner as Thomas Andrews. He was brilliant, looked eerily like the real Andrews, and I fell in love with him in that film.
Like others, the love story didn't work for me as I became older - and in fact now I empathize with Rose's mom a fair amount. But I agree with those that have pointed out that it gets mocked because it is a story designed for women, with a Manic Pixie Dream Boy.
The plot is surprisingly similar to the'80s teen historical romance Nicole, part of the famous Sunfire line. However, in the book the rich guy isn't a jerk and the hero lives.
posted by rednikki at 8:24 PM on December 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
And for Victor Garner as Thomas Andrews. He was brilliant, looked eerily like the real Andrews, and I fell in love with him in that film.
Like others, the love story didn't work for me as I became older - and in fact now I empathize with Rose's mom a fair amount. But I agree with those that have pointed out that it gets mocked because it is a story designed for women, with a Manic Pixie Dream Boy.
The plot is surprisingly similar to the'80s teen historical romance Nicole, part of the famous Sunfire line. However, in the book the rich guy isn't a jerk and the hero lives.
posted by rednikki at 8:24 PM on December 20, 2017 [12 favorites]
I also liked this Buzzfeed article about the movie, which is ostensibly about the making of the movie but also has a lot about the writer's pre-teen obsession with the movie. As for me, I liked the movie well enough that it didn't seem like 3+ hours (as opposed to movies about half that length that do), but it's not one of those Cameron movies like Aliens or T2 that are compulsively rewatchable, at least for me, so I don't know how well it would hold up for me now. I can tell you what doesn't hold up well for me, though: Lindy West's take on it from Jezebel (linked in the Rumpus article). West has written a lot of awesome things, but this is not one of them IMO.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:30 PM on December 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:30 PM on December 20, 2017 [2 favorites]
Also, Cameron reminisces about the movie, and asserts that Jack and Rose couldn't have shared the door.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:32 PM on December 20, 2017
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:32 PM on December 20, 2017
I'm not sure I agree that the mocking of Twilight is necessarily about making fun of things tween girls like in the same way that Titanic was/is mocked. Sure, people mocked Titanic because of the silly parts AND because girls liked it--the endless JACK! ROSE! JACK! ROSE! screeching while freezing water swirls around, the door sharing, the twee angst. People mock Twilight because adult women were having catfights online over #TeamJacob and #TeamEdward while the intended audience of the series had a brief love affair with it and then tossed it aside in favor of The Hunger Games. Add onto that the whole concept of a nearly adult werewolf imprinting on an infant (!?!) and Edward being a deranged, abusive, and possessive stalker and I think the whole comparison falls utterly apart. There was nothing really "wrong" with Jack. Not in the same way things are wrong with Jacob & Edward.
posted by xyzzy at 8:49 PM on December 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by xyzzy at 8:49 PM on December 20, 2017 [16 favorites]
Holy shit that Postmodern Jukebox cover. I thought I was past being impressed with their schtick but I Was Mistake.
posted by deludingmyself at 9:33 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by deludingmyself at 9:33 PM on December 20, 2017 [3 favorites]
I was of the right age for Titanic, but the wrong subculture for it - we sneered. I didn’t watch it until I was 20.
But honestly, it’s worth noting back then that so many romances treated the female characters like shit, that I think maybe Titanic was so damn successful because it broke the mold and had the man be supportive for the woman and help her before himself.
I wish we’d had more cheesy movies that said that back then.
posted by corb at 9:41 PM on December 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
But honestly, it’s worth noting back then that so many romances treated the female characters like shit, that I think maybe Titanic was so damn successful because it broke the mold and had the man be supportive for the woman and help her before himself.
I wish we’d had more cheesy movies that said that back then.
posted by corb at 9:41 PM on December 20, 2017 [5 favorites]
I sobbed so hard the first time I saw it in the cinema, the guys who were with us were trying to pretend they didn't know us.
I was 20 when it came out so prime target audience.
I don't care about the love story but knowing it happened, what people went through and how unfair and stupid it was takes the death roll from random number in a book to really, really sad. I also really like the visual effects of the night sky when the posh people are sitting in lifeboats and the poor folk are drowning and freezing. Kind of makes you think about priorities.
Also I have a friend who can do a great imitation of Jack's speech at the end. Every now and again he suddenly grabs my arm and hoarsely gasps "Rose!" and thus it begins.
posted by kitten magic at 9:44 PM on December 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I was 20 when it came out so prime target audience.
I don't care about the love story but knowing it happened, what people went through and how unfair and stupid it was takes the death roll from random number in a book to really, really sad. I also really like the visual effects of the night sky when the posh people are sitting in lifeboats and the poor folk are drowning and freezing. Kind of makes you think about priorities.
Also I have a friend who can do a great imitation of Jack's speech at the end. Every now and again he suddenly grabs my arm and hoarsely gasps "Rose!" and thus it begins.
posted by kitten magic at 9:44 PM on December 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I just wanted to see a really big boat sink. Was not disappointed. Also liked the 1958 version.
posted by ovvl at 10:06 PM on December 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
posted by ovvl at 10:06 PM on December 20, 2017 [11 favorites]
Well hell, we can put an end to one of the more annoying aspects of Titanic snark right now. Thanks to ricochet biscuit, I now realize to my astonishment that we really have the actual fucking door in the real actual world.
So all right then, let's settle it. I say we get Kate and Leo and put them on the goddamn thing in a tank somewhere and see once and for all if it can keep them both out of the water.
posted by Naberius at 10:58 PM on December 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
So all right then, let's settle it. I say we get Kate and Leo and put them on the goddamn thing in a tank somewhere and see once and for all if it can keep them both out of the water.
posted by Naberius at 10:58 PM on December 20, 2017 [9 favorites]
I've never had the impression that Titanic was considered for tween girls, or scorned for that reason. (Leomania was a different story.) If anything, even as someone who likes it a lot (I know I've seen it at least 15 times, though most of those as a child), I've been slightly baffled, in adulthood, at just how well it was received given its shortcomings wrt story, dialogue and character. Not only is it one of the very highest grossing films of all time, it also swept the Oscars and has a score of 88 on Rotten Tomatoes. What more can you ask?
Personally, in addition to the Great Staircase dream? at the end, I love the bit where Rose jumps out of the lifeboat. The shot of Jack from her perspective, with the flares going off behind him, always gets a feel or two out of me. The sinking half of the movie is wonderful. It's not only a great action movie in itself, but more romantic than the first half imo.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 11:03 PM on December 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Personally, in addition to the Great Staircase dream? at the end, I love the bit where Rose jumps out of the lifeboat. The shot of Jack from her perspective, with the flares going off behind him, always gets a feel or two out of me. The sinking half of the movie is wonderful. It's not only a great action movie in itself, but more romantic than the first half imo.
posted by two or three cars parked under the stars at 11:03 PM on December 20, 2017 [1 favorite]
Future Man does a fun riff on Cameron, Titanic and The Door.
posted by gottabefunky at 12:03 AM on December 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gottabefunky at 12:03 AM on December 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
That was a pretty good piece of writing, and I think Titanic is a pretty good movie.
I have this memory of seeing it early in the process, when it was still (I could swear there were stories about this in Time and Newsweek) destined to be a staggeringly expensive, possibly career-ending bomb. I think maybe the disconnect between that press and the subsequent endless everyone-has-seen-this-movie-twelve-times reality of its theatrical run probably did a lot to clue me in that, very, very often, people just really didn't really know what they were talking about with regards to public reception of art.
posted by brennen at 12:26 AM on December 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I have this memory of seeing it early in the process, when it was still (I could swear there were stories about this in Time and Newsweek) destined to be a staggeringly expensive, possibly career-ending bomb. I think maybe the disconnect between that press and the subsequent endless everyone-has-seen-this-movie-twelve-times reality of its theatrical run probably did a lot to clue me in that, very, very often, people just really didn't really know what they were talking about with regards to public reception of art.
posted by brennen at 12:26 AM on December 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
The way society heaps a lot more scorn on female-targeted media is obviously terrible, but I'm not on board with a leveling-down approach to equality. The answer is to mock and deride Manic Pixie Dream Girl media more, not start being accepting of Manic Pixie Dream Boy stuff.
There's a lot about Titanic that does represent the craft of film-making well. Cameron knew what he was doing, and the film didn't reach record gross and award levels for nothing. The script for the central story though, did leave a lot to be desired.
posted by Dysk at 12:44 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
There's a lot about Titanic that does represent the craft of film-making well. Cameron knew what he was doing, and the film didn't reach record gross and award levels for nothing. The script for the central story though, did leave a lot to be desired.
posted by Dysk at 12:44 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Jack Dawson is one of the few examples I can think of, of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl (a beautiful, vivid love interest who has no real interior life of their own that the film's interested in developing but exists solely to have a relationship with the protagonist, and said protagonist grows and develops as a character because of said relationship) done as a boy, for a female protagonist.
I haven't seen Titantic, but having a male fantasy figure in films marketed to young women isn't that unusual, but the equivalent is more the Secretly Sensitive Loner Guy who is tough but stands apart from all the regular boys and is the only one who can see the true beauty of the quietly clever girl ignored by her classmates. It's often structured as a variation on the ugly duckling/Cinderella story, and is. perhaps needless to say, still often written by men so the resolution may contain a "make-over" sequence that reveals that hidden physical beauty that was allegedly unnoticed all along.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:06 AM on December 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I haven't seen Titantic, but having a male fantasy figure in films marketed to young women isn't that unusual, but the equivalent is more the Secretly Sensitive Loner Guy who is tough but stands apart from all the regular boys and is the only one who can see the true beauty of the quietly clever girl ignored by her classmates. It's often structured as a variation on the ugly duckling/Cinderella story, and is. perhaps needless to say, still often written by men so the resolution may contain a "make-over" sequence that reveals that hidden physical beauty that was allegedly unnoticed all along.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:06 AM on December 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
my grandfather told my wife and I that he won passage on a liner from san francisco to seattle in a poker game in order to return to washington and pursue his interest in my grandmother, he having worked his way down the coast as an itinerant baseball player, teamster, and operating engineer for steam.
I grew up in a household with no less than four immediate-aftermath early 20th century books on the sinking, each of which I carefully studied over a period of more than ten years, rereading them all multiple times, luxuriating in the horrified fascination that drove the early 20th century's mass-media Titanic industry. I never perceived this film as anything but an extension and continuation of this century-long rapt and fearful attention.
I generally dislike, and and disliked at the time, Cameron films. I think he is terrifyingly misogynist, but he disguises it by centering women in his films. In particular, I think Aliens is the worst of the Alien movies because he depicts Ripley as specifically empowered due to the characteristics she shares with the Alien queen, which is to say, she is as alien and dangerous as the Alien, as Cameron's lens is the male gaze. Over time, I have come to see and appreciate T2 and Aliens as better films than I thought they were at the time, and to understand that my viewpoint is at least debatable. I don't think I have had revisionist notions about The Abyss, or Titanic, or Avatar.
There was no way I wasn't going to go to this film. I veered between cringing and gawking. I deeply enjoyed the hypernerdery, the ghoulishness, of the detailed revisualizations of the ship. I was less enthused by the immediate uptick in touring exhibitions devoted to displaying the artifacts from the ship, although in pondering this I don't think I have a leg to stand on. I deeply enjoy old timey ghoulishness, but not newfangled ghoulishness, and this is self contradictory, I think. on a scale of no plastinated corpses to plastinated corpses, the Titanic touring exhibitions scored no plastinated corpses.
posted by mwhybark at 1:15 AM on December 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I grew up in a household with no less than four immediate-aftermath early 20th century books on the sinking, each of which I carefully studied over a period of more than ten years, rereading them all multiple times, luxuriating in the horrified fascination that drove the early 20th century's mass-media Titanic industry. I never perceived this film as anything but an extension and continuation of this century-long rapt and fearful attention.
I generally dislike, and and disliked at the time, Cameron films. I think he is terrifyingly misogynist, but he disguises it by centering women in his films. In particular, I think Aliens is the worst of the Alien movies because he depicts Ripley as specifically empowered due to the characteristics she shares with the Alien queen, which is to say, she is as alien and dangerous as the Alien, as Cameron's lens is the male gaze. Over time, I have come to see and appreciate T2 and Aliens as better films than I thought they were at the time, and to understand that my viewpoint is at least debatable. I don't think I have had revisionist notions about The Abyss, or Titanic, or Avatar.
There was no way I wasn't going to go to this film. I veered between cringing and gawking. I deeply enjoyed the hypernerdery, the ghoulishness, of the detailed revisualizations of the ship. I was less enthused by the immediate uptick in touring exhibitions devoted to displaying the artifacts from the ship, although in pondering this I don't think I have a leg to stand on. I deeply enjoy old timey ghoulishness, but not newfangled ghoulishness, and this is self contradictory, I think. on a scale of no plastinated corpses to plastinated corpses, the Titanic touring exhibitions scored no plastinated corpses.
posted by mwhybark at 1:15 AM on December 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Came in to recommend the Buzzfeed article that Halloween Jack linked to. Great insight into the business of movie making and Cameron's er, "managerial style".
posted by like_neon at 2:28 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by like_neon at 2:28 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I’ve read about and studied shipwrecks my entire life, and I despised that film for a great many reasons. From the crystal-clear/blue water filling up those sets so dramatically (the reality would have been black, debris-laden water which would have been far more terrifying) to a scene of humping in a car in the hold in an outrageously anachronistic manner... I found the entire enterprise horrifying especially in that it trivialized an unspeakable tragedy.
Thank you, I need to get that off my chest now and then. Carry on.
posted by kinnakeet at 2:34 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Thank you, I need to get that off my chest now and then. Carry on.
posted by kinnakeet at 2:34 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I came out of Titanic being impressed by how much you can get away with bad writing in cinema if you have great special effects, sets, costumes, music and acting. But perhaps if the script had been better it would be remembered more enthusiastically.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:49 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 2:49 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
So all right then, let's settle it. I say we get Kate and Leo and put them on the goddamn thing in a tank somewhere and see once and for all if it can keep them both out of the water.
We might have to adjust for certain *ahem* changes to Leo's physique over the last twenty years or so.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:37 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
We might have to adjust for certain *ahem* changes to Leo's physique over the last twenty years or so.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:37 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
to a scene of humping in a car in the hold in an outrageously anachronistic manner...
I think now is the best possible time for an elaboration of why that scene was outrageously anachronistic. C'mon. Expound. Give in to your hate.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 5:13 AM on December 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think now is the best possible time for an elaboration of why that scene was outrageously anachronistic. C'mon. Expound. Give in to your hate.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 5:13 AM on December 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
...outrageously anachronistic...
Seriously, in 1912 a young woman would think to access the cargo hold of a ship in order to get it on? (I know we all want to believe that people don’t change but c’mon). Also, have you ever actually seen or been inside an automobile of that period? I have. Trust me, gymnastics would be required, along with a preterhuman tolerance for discomfort.
Off-topic here, but she throws the diamond into the sea? Really? Could any action be more selfish (other than not trying harder to share that bloody door)?
My hatred for this film will burn on long after I have departed.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:52 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Seriously, in 1912 a young woman would think to access the cargo hold of a ship in order to get it on? (I know we all want to believe that people don’t change but c’mon). Also, have you ever actually seen or been inside an automobile of that period? I have. Trust me, gymnastics would be required, along with a preterhuman tolerance for discomfort.
Off-topic here, but she throws the diamond into the sea? Really? Could any action be more selfish (other than not trying harder to share that bloody door)?
My hatred for this film will burn on long after I have departed.
posted by kinnakeet at 5:52 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
my grandfather told my wife and I that he won passage on a liner from san francisco to seattle in a poker game in order to return to washington and pursue his interest in my grandmother, he having worked his way down the coast as an itinerant baseball player, teamster, and operating engineer for steam.
I'd actually kind of like to see this movie.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:57 AM on December 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
I'd actually kind of like to see this movie.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:57 AM on December 21, 2017 [12 favorites]
Still haven't seen it. Picked up the whole movie through cultural osmosis. Like how I know about Pokemon.
This is how I experience pretty much all pop culture these days. It saves so much time!
posted by JanetLand at 6:27 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
This is how I experience pretty much all pop culture these days. It saves so much time!
posted by JanetLand at 6:27 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
> mercilessly mocking Knight Rider, MacGyver and the A Team
MacGyver? That ain't right.
posted by theora55 at 6:29 AM on December 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
MacGyver? That ain't right.
posted by theora55 at 6:29 AM on December 21, 2017 [4 favorites]
I was never fascinated by the story of the Titanic and didn't plan to see the movie, but was dragged to it by a tween. As soon as I saw the men shoveling coal and the big doors, I knew they were going to die a horrible death, and I knew the people in steerage were screwed. So I was all pissed off for class reasons.
posted by theora55 at 6:37 AM on December 21, 2017
posted by theora55 at 6:37 AM on December 21, 2017
Thanks for saving me from having to make an outraged comment, theora55.
I enjoyed the movie and think fondly of it, but never really need to see it again. I like the idea of Leo being the Manic Pixie Dream Boy.
posted by PussKillian at 6:53 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
I enjoyed the movie and think fondly of it, but never really need to see it again. I like the idea of Leo being the Manic Pixie Dream Boy.
posted by PussKillian at 6:53 AM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
At the time, I quite liked it, but the story kept getting in the way of the good stuff.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:03 AM on December 21, 2017
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:03 AM on December 21, 2017
My hatred for this film will burn on long after I have departed.
Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the hate does go on
Once more you open the door
And you're here in my hate
And my hate will go on and on
posted by juv3nal at 7:03 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Near, far, wherever you are
I believe that the hate does go on
Once more you open the door
And you're here in my hate
And my hate will go on and on
posted by juv3nal at 7:03 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
Titanic is a fine movie. I like the spinning dance scene and also like they think they borrowed the technique from a this silly Zumpano video. The spinning starts at 1:45 or so.
I also think it would make fine action toys. There was a gun fight in the movie and the USS Flagg GI Joe boat was perhaps the biggest most bad toy ever made.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:27 AM on December 21, 2017
I also think it would make fine action toys. There was a gun fight in the movie and the USS Flagg GI Joe boat was perhaps the biggest most bad toy ever made.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:27 AM on December 21, 2017
Seriously, in 1912 a young woman would think to access the cargo hold of a ship in order to get it on? Also, have you ever actually seen or been inside an automobile of that period? I have. Trust me, gymnastics would be required, along with a preterhuman tolerance for discomfort.
She didn't think of it. They were running from Billy Zane's bodyguard guy. The chase takes them through doors and around corners and such. They end up in the cargo hold by chance.
The vehicle in question is a 1912 Renault Type CB Coupe de Ville limousine, which is quite spacious in the back seat with the jump seats stowed. Mrs. Fleebnork and I have had er... romantic activities in smaller back seats than that in our youth.
The Titanic carried one in reality. The unrealistic part of the movie is that the car would have been in a crate.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:46 AM on December 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
She didn't think of it. They were running from Billy Zane's bodyguard guy. The chase takes them through doors and around corners and such. They end up in the cargo hold by chance.
The vehicle in question is a 1912 Renault Type CB Coupe de Ville limousine, which is quite spacious in the back seat with the jump seats stowed. Mrs. Fleebnork and I have had er... romantic activities in smaller back seats than that in our youth.
The Titanic carried one in reality. The unrealistic part of the movie is that the car would have been in a crate.
posted by Fleebnork at 7:46 AM on December 21, 2017 [11 favorites]
The way society heaps a lot more scorn on female-targeted media is obviously terrible, but I'm not on board with a leveling-down approach to equality. The answer is to mock and deride Manic Pixie Dream Girl media more, not start being accepting of Manic Pixie Dream Boy stuff.
I don't know, though. Why not both? We can mock the notion of the manic pixie dream girl while also enjoying the turnabout that is the notion of the manic pixie dream dude. I think the latter notion is something of an equalizing force, at least for now. It reminds me of one of the notes about Thirst Aid Kit:
"I know people will go, 'Oh, how is it different than if it was a bunch of dudes doing it?'" Adewunmi says. And it's true: a Buzzfeed podcast in which men sat around, documenting—in sometimes vivid detail—their attractions to women celebrities would likely not go over well. "But the power structure means it is different," Adewunmi says. By which she means that men and women aren't equal, and so when women dissect a photo of Mark Ruffalo, it doesn't feel quite like it would if a bunch of dudes put Kate Upton under a microscope. Our culture is still a patriarchal one, Adewunmi maintains, defiant. So with this new podcast duo, raunch becomes subversive, even radical.
Until such time as our society gets it together in that regard, the notion of the manic pixie dream dude will still be somewhat subversive in that way as well. Yeah, of course guys want to be and should be respected as equal players in the narrative (whether in fiction or in real life), and yet, if sometimes their role is just to energize and delight and illuminate the woman protagonist, why not? It balances things out just a tidge, and it's not like there's much danger of that actually becoming a dominant societal narrative. Also: Delight!
posted by limeonaire at 9:10 AM on December 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
I don't know, though. Why not both? We can mock the notion of the manic pixie dream girl while also enjoying the turnabout that is the notion of the manic pixie dream dude. I think the latter notion is something of an equalizing force, at least for now. It reminds me of one of the notes about Thirst Aid Kit:
"I know people will go, 'Oh, how is it different than if it was a bunch of dudes doing it?'" Adewunmi says. And it's true: a Buzzfeed podcast in which men sat around, documenting—in sometimes vivid detail—their attractions to women celebrities would likely not go over well. "But the power structure means it is different," Adewunmi says. By which she means that men and women aren't equal, and so when women dissect a photo of Mark Ruffalo, it doesn't feel quite like it would if a bunch of dudes put Kate Upton under a microscope. Our culture is still a patriarchal one, Adewunmi maintains, defiant. So with this new podcast duo, raunch becomes subversive, even radical.
Until such time as our society gets it together in that regard, the notion of the manic pixie dream dude will still be somewhat subversive in that way as well. Yeah, of course guys want to be and should be respected as equal players in the narrative (whether in fiction or in real life), and yet, if sometimes their role is just to energize and delight and illuminate the woman protagonist, why not? It balances things out just a tidge, and it's not like there's much danger of that actually becoming a dominant societal narrative. Also: Delight!
posted by limeonaire at 9:10 AM on December 21, 2017 [6 favorites]
Seriously, in 1912 a young woman would think to access the cargo hold of a ship in order to get it on?
The young woman was a virgin being sold into marriage, and she was on the run (as much as one can be on a ship) with the guy she was genuinely attracted to... so, yeah. The whole movie is Rose chafing against her fate and her mother's belief that money is a shield. By the end, rich and poor alike have perished, Rose is in shock, but she's unexpectedly free. Using Jack's last name and dumping the necklace are in keeping with her frame of mind at the time.
I thought the dialogue kept getting in the way of the scenery and costuming; the only acting in the movie is DiCaprio's awfully good, split-second realization as Jack's sacrificing himself. (Misty water-colored memories, of the way his whole face reacted and not his forehead alone.) Also I was a bit spoiled by a movie review snarking that the cinematic sinking took longer than the actual sinking.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:53 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
The young woman was a virgin being sold into marriage, and she was on the run (as much as one can be on a ship) with the guy she was genuinely attracted to... so, yeah. The whole movie is Rose chafing against her fate and her mother's belief that money is a shield. By the end, rich and poor alike have perished, Rose is in shock, but she's unexpectedly free. Using Jack's last name and dumping the necklace are in keeping with her frame of mind at the time.
I thought the dialogue kept getting in the way of the scenery and costuming; the only acting in the movie is DiCaprio's awfully good, split-second realization as Jack's sacrificing himself. (Misty water-colored memories, of the way his whole face reacted and not his forehead alone.) Also I was a bit spoiled by a movie review snarking that the cinematic sinking took longer than the actual sinking.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:53 AM on December 21, 2017 [3 favorites]
I remember reading at the time some thinkpiece (there were less of them about in those days) suggesting that the movie was so hugely popular with girls because young people were no longer used to seeing tragedies in popular movies. It was a novelty to them, they suggested, to feel all those powerful emotions about a love story ending in death. I thought the writer had a point at the time, but I have no idea whether that is true. Certainly there were lots of “winsome dying girl” movies before and afterwards.
posted by Countess Elena at 11:07 AM on December 21, 2017
posted by Countess Elena at 11:07 AM on December 21, 2017
Also I was a bit spoiled by a movie review snarking that the cinematic sinking took longer than the actual sinking.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:53 PM on December 21
Wait, you were spoiled like you didn't know the boat was going to sink spoiled?
posted by fiercecupcake at 11:49 AM on December 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:53 PM on December 21
Wait, you were spoiled like you didn't know the boat was going to sink spoiled?
posted by fiercecupcake at 11:49 AM on December 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
I don't know, though. Why not both?
...because a leveling down approach to equality leaves us all worse off.
posted by Dysk at 11:56 AM on December 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
...because a leveling down approach to equality leaves us all worse off.
posted by Dysk at 11:56 AM on December 21, 2017 [1 favorite]
fiercecupcake -- Spoiled in that the movie was a bloated mess, and I'd be squinting at my wristwatch during the most action-filled part. (Yes, I'd heard about the sinking of the Titanic; one winter it was all the wolves who raised me could yip about.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:24 PM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:24 PM on December 21, 2017 [2 favorites]
Wait, you were spoiled like you didn't know the boat was going to sink spoiled?
While Iris Gambol knew about it from wolves, it seems to me that five years ago when the centennial of the sinking rolled around, there were a fair number of people online who were shocked and surprised to learn that that was not just a movie.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:08 AM on December 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
While Iris Gambol knew about it from wolves, it seems to me that five years ago when the centennial of the sinking rolled around, there were a fair number of people online who were shocked and surprised to learn that that was not just a movie.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:08 AM on December 22, 2017 [4 favorites]
I mean, I suppose that as xkcd points out, some ten thousand people a day learn any given fact, but it seems a curious choice to highlight one’s ignorance on this. The hack jokes from 1997 – “Spoiler: the boat sinks.” – really were spoilers for some audiences, it seems.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:12 AM on December 22, 2017
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:12 AM on December 22, 2017
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