"Virtually the entire sea bottom started to move"
August 31, 2018 7:58 AM Subscribe
In 1983, Amos Barkai performed an experiment to see if he could determine why lobsters were plentiful around Malgas Island but literally nonexistent around Marcus Island, only four kilometers away. He took about a thousand lobsters from Malgas and moved them to Marcus to see how they would fare. The results were horrifying, and provided strong evidence for alternative stable states—the idea that an ecosystem can exist in very different yet completely stable configurations.
Oh my god. I would just feel so incredibly awful were I him. What a thing to see. Speechless.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:03 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by lazaruslong at 8:03 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
Okay so I guess we need to figure out how to hook NYC-DSA up with a supply of encrusting bryozoans.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:18 AM on August 31, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:18 AM on August 31, 2018 [16 favorites]
Ok, I'm going to have nightmares now.
posted by Melismata at 8:24 AM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 8:24 AM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
Wow, this fascinating and horrifying, thank you for posting!
posted by lepus at 8:25 AM on August 31, 2018
posted by lepus at 8:25 AM on August 31, 2018
> Wow, this fascinating and horrifying, thank you for posting!
There's nothing horrifying about predator/prey reversal. It's a goddamned inspiration is what it is. prey species of the world unite!
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:30 AM on August 31, 2018 [17 favorites]
There's nothing horrifying about predator/prey reversal. It's a goddamned inspiration is what it is. prey species of the world unite!
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:30 AM on August 31, 2018 [17 favorites]
1871, Paris.
1917, St. Petersburg.
1983, Marcus Island.
Tomorrow, the world!
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:32 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
1917, St. Petersburg.
1983, Marcus Island.
Tomorrow, the world!
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 8:32 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
Whelks are alright. Somewhere between winkles and crab in taste. Best with brown bread and salted butter, and maybe a dash of vinegar if your tastes run that way. My mum loves them, but never with vinegar.
posted by howfar at 8:41 AM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by howfar at 8:41 AM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
This thread is useless until you-know-who makes an appearance.
posted by briank at 8:42 AM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by briank at 8:42 AM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
Wowza!
posted by Secretariat at 8:44 AM on August 31, 2018
posted by Secretariat at 8:44 AM on August 31, 2018
You ever have one of those moments when you read about one of the horrifying wonders of nature, and think “How long until this shows up in a Charles Stross Laundry novel?”
I’m having one of those moments.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2018 [8 favorites]
I’m having one of those moments.
posted by McCoy Pauley at 8:45 AM on August 31, 2018 [8 favorites]
This is why I stay out of soybean fields.
posted by pracowity at 8:46 AM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 8:46 AM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
Life finds a way many different ways.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:51 AM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:51 AM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
This thread is useless until you-know-who makes an appearance.
Let's, uh, not be hasty here. I have... concerns
posted by Hairy Lobster at 8:58 AM on August 31, 2018 [97 favorites]
Let's, uh, not be hasty here. I have... concerns
posted by Hairy Lobster at 8:58 AM on August 31, 2018 [97 favorites]
Organize the shellfish.
posted by The Whelk at 9:00 AM on August 31, 2018 [71 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 9:00 AM on August 31, 2018 [71 favorites]
you read about one of the horrifying wonders of nature, and think “How long until this shows up in a Charles Stross Laundry novel?”
I had much the same thought, but with Peter Watts subbed in.
posted by Iridic at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
I had much the same thought, but with Peter Watts subbed in.
posted by Iridic at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
So... whelks? Good eating? L'escargot du whelK?
Not according to Sean Lock.
posted by myotahapea at 9:28 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Not according to Sean Lock.
posted by myotahapea at 9:28 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
You do have to wonder about an ecologist who decides to experiment on an ecosystem by dumping huge numbers of a predatory species into it just to see what happens. I know he admits it was naive, but...
All reminds me of the Callisto cuddle sponge that got its feeding tubes into Jason Taverner.
posted by Devonian at 9:40 AM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
All reminds me of the Callisto cuddle sponge that got its feeding tubes into Jason Taverner.
posted by Devonian at 9:40 AM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
i support this proletariat uprising
posted by poffin boffin at 10:20 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 10:20 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
preyletariat.
we'll rue the day this thread happened when we're all devoured by coral-encrusted cows.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:43 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
we'll rue the day this thread happened when we're all devoured by coral-encrusted cows.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:43 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
There goes a narwhal.
posted by sonascope at 10:55 AM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by sonascope at 10:55 AM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
Predator/prey reversal is currently the best explanation as to why we have humans everywhere and no dinosaurs.
posted by bigbigdog at 11:13 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by bigbigdog at 11:13 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
bc dinosaurs are delicious especially with extra crispy skin
posted by poffin boffin at 11:29 AM on August 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 11:29 AM on August 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
Gruuu...
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:37 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:37 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
All reminds me of the Callisto cuddle sponge that got its feeding tubes into Jason Taverner.
And now I have new book to read. Thanks!
posted by device55 at 12:26 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
And now I have new book to read. Thanks!
posted by device55 at 12:26 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Why are alternative stable states a controversial concept?
posted by PMdixon at 12:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by PMdixon at 12:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
I thought the current scientific consensus is that the dinosaurs (the big ones, not their bird descendants) went extinct before humans came into existence.
posted by Hicksu at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Hicksu at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
you read about one of the horrifying wonders of nature, and think “How long until this shows up in a Charles Stross Laundry novel?”
I had much the same thought, but with Peter Watts subbed in.
Mary Doria Russell did it in the 90s.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:57 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
I had much the same thought, but with Peter Watts subbed in.
Mary Doria Russell did it in the 90s.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 12:57 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
As God is my witness, I thought lobsters could swim.
posted by darksasami at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [26 favorites]
posted by darksasami at 1:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [26 favorites]
I've got some skepticism about the alternate stable states theory.
While the whelks overwhelmed the lobsters, apparently 20-25 years ago, the stable state around Marcus was lobsters above the food chain over whelks. Twenty years may or may not be enough to engender a 'stable state' with plenty of unknowns left to be researched. I'd bet if a census was taken of other life-forms around both islands, there would be more of a disturbance than just that surrounding the lobsters and whelk. A major change in a predator usually causes a cascade down the food chain.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:53 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
While the whelks overwhelmed the lobsters, apparently 20-25 years ago, the stable state around Marcus was lobsters above the food chain over whelks. Twenty years may or may not be enough to engender a 'stable state' with plenty of unknowns left to be researched. I'd bet if a census was taken of other life-forms around both islands, there would be more of a disturbance than just that surrounding the lobsters and whelk. A major change in a predator usually causes a cascade down the food chain.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:53 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
HERE COMES A BIKINI WHALE
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 3:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 3:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
Ok, just FYI, that is one of the most horrifying pictures ever posted on Metafilter.
posted by Melismata at 3:37 PM on August 31, 2018
posted by Melismata at 3:37 PM on August 31, 2018
The article is fascinating.
Plus, the scary photo reminded me that mollusks will break your record player.
posted by sonascope at 4:18 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Plus, the scary photo reminded me that mollusks will break your record player.
posted by sonascope at 4:18 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: They were simply empty shells
There was no meat left at all whatsoever.
posted by stevil at 5:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [7 favorites]
There was no meat left at all whatsoever.
posted by stevil at 5:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [7 favorites]
Reminds me of the time I caught a few fish and stuck them on a line while I prepared to clean and cook them. When I got back less than an hour later there were only disembodied heads left. Thanks, turtles.
That shit disturbed me for life. Similarly, the description of the way the whelks consumed the lobsters is likely going to leave a permanent mental scar. Thanks for that. :p
posted by wierdo at 11:17 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
That shit disturbed me for life. Similarly, the description of the way the whelks consumed the lobsters is likely going to leave a permanent mental scar. Thanks for that. :p
posted by wierdo at 11:17 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Spent way too much time wondering why the Japanese evacuated the civilian population in 1933 and whether Amelia Earhart could have...but wrong Marcus Island.
Note to self: RTFA
posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:46 AM on September 1, 2018
Note to self: RTFA
posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:46 AM on September 1, 2018
LOBSTACALYPSE! (from the producers of Sharknado!)
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:48 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:48 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Let's, uh, not be hasty here. I have... concerns
posted by Hairy Lobster at 8:58 AM on August 31
Not willing to share the thread with The Whelk? Don’t you think you’re being a bit ... shellfish?
posted by panama joe at 8:37 PM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 8:58 AM on August 31
Not willing to share the thread with The Whelk? Don’t you think you’re being a bit ... shellfish?
posted by panama joe at 8:37 PM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
I notice that a certain mod hasn't poked her head in here. Chicken of the sea?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:23 PM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:23 PM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sees The Whelk next to Hairy Lobster. Checks Hairy Lobster for tubes.
posted by tavella at 1:27 AM on September 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by tavella at 1:27 AM on September 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
There is a script for a horror movie in here somewhere. Seeing this from the perspective of the lobsters would be disturbing.
posted by ensign_ricky at 7:42 AM on September 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ensign_ricky at 7:42 AM on September 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
I thought the current scientific consensus is that the dinosaurs (the big ones, not their bird descendants) went extinct before humans came into existence.
Yes, by around sixty-five million years. I took the comment to mean that technically, birds are dinosaurs, just like tomatoes are are fruit and Marmite is a food.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 4:09 PM on September 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, by around sixty-five million years. I took the comment to mean that technically, birds are dinosaurs, just like tomatoes are are fruit and Marmite is a food.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 4:09 PM on September 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Dinosaurs no, but predator/prey reversal seems quite plausible in many cases of extinction by humans. Giant sloths could very plausibly preyed on humans, but seem to have been hunted to extinction by whelk-like bands of human hunters.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:37 AM on September 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 9:37 AM on September 3, 2018 [1 favorite]
Giant sloths were herbivores, but this reversal would work between sloths and triffids of course
posted by Rumple at 9:58 AM on September 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Rumple at 9:58 AM on September 3, 2018 [2 favorites]
Fantastic article. Thank you for sharing!
posted by widdershins at 7:41 AM on September 4, 2018
posted by widdershins at 7:41 AM on September 4, 2018
The amphipods strike back.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:15 AM on September 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:15 AM on September 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:00 AM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]