July 9, 2002

3:22 AM

"The second law of thermodynamics always rules: Everything is always running down. And so is our Bill of Rights. The current junta in charge of our affairs, one not legally elected, but put in charge of us by the Supreme Court in the interests of the oil and gas and defense lobbies, have used first Oklahoma City and now September 11 to further erode things."
posted by artifex (17 comments total)

I have long admired Vidal but find him of late heading toward senility. Note that on the one hand we made a deal with Bin Laden for the oil via Caspian; and inthe next few sentences, we got rid of Bin Laden (or chased him into hiding) so we could get the oil. Which was it? Gore has bezcome a witty Chomsky: no matter what we do we are always wrong and have initiated all evil in the world.
It is very American though to be living in Italy most of the year and return to make book deals and show up in a film now and then...and knock the place you left.
posted by Postroad at 3:46 AM on July 9, 2002

Postroad:

Well, one could say we tried dealing with the taliban, and then ousted them so we could get it. But you can't really say we were dealing with Bin Laden.
posted by delmoi at 4:00 AM on July 9, 2002

I agree he's probably more fun than nutritious to read at this point, although he makes some freaking great observations.

As to your cited contradiction -- he basically says that we did have a deal with the Taliban but they became too "flaky" to be trusted to stick to it, ergo our show of force. So it makes sense -- especially in light of the fact that they (the Taliban) were wined and dined (or, um, whatever they "enjoy" in lieu of such infidel delights) in Texas by some oil interests only last year.
posted by donkeyschlong at 4:04 AM on July 9, 2002

Also, people really need to stop talking about the 2rd law of thermodynamics like it proves anything relating to anything other then thermodynamics...
posted by delmoi at 4:07 AM on July 9, 2002

What's going on at MeFi? Is it post-all-kinds-of-paranoid-hyperbole-week or something? Is it the summer heat?
posted by dagny at 4:17 AM on July 9, 2002

Mefi has pretty much always been like this.
posted by revbrian at 5:18 AM on July 9, 2002

Ah, I had forgot the importance of oil: no matter what happens, whatever we do is basically to get oil. This accounts for our entire foreign policy. Perhaps this is why Ronnie made the Russian empire go away. So we could become friends, give them lots of money, and get their oil.
Or so we could make citizens of all Mexicans who cross our borders, legally or otherwise, so we can get Mexican oil.
For a moment I had imagined we dumped on the Taliban and Afghanistan because somehow they were connected to 9/11.
posted by Postroad at 5:26 AM on July 9, 2002

The first rule of the 2nd law of thermodynamics is that you don't talk about the first rule of the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
posted by zpousman at 5:59 AM on July 9, 2002

For a moment I had imagined we dumped on the Taliban and Afghanistan because somehow they were connected to 9/11.

I certainly recognize your point, but I think Vidal makes a valid one as well. Saudi citizens were at the heart of the 9/11 tragedy. Their government was reluctant to the point of insult to help us find those responsible, but they continue to be our good buddies. Why? They're not a democracy, they treat us like poor relations, they don't honor anything we claim to stand for like human rights,etc.; but (as Vidal says) they con us into being their bodyguard.

If the reason isn't oil, then what is it?
posted by norm29 at 6:20 AM on July 9, 2002

he's probably more fun than nutritious to read at this point, although he makes some freaking great observations.
hallelujah, brother. sometimes Vidal may get a little carried away by his own vis polemica, but I think Americans should proud of him -- he's the nation's greatest intellectual since Bunny Wilson died 30 yrs ago.

I had imagined we dumped on the Taliban and Afghanistan because somehow they were connected to 9/11.
Saudi Arabia and Egypt and many other countries (Iran, Pakistan, etc) are somehow connected as well -- when do we start bombing them too? (Or is Saddam the only bad guy around?)

...and knock the place you left
I didn't know that Americans who live abroad had a patriotic duty to support their country's government no matter what.
Anyway, unfortunately he only stays six months a year in Ravello, he spends the rest in the US. By the way, this pamphlet was first published in Italy and became an instant best-seller. And no, I don't think because all those Italians hate the US -- we just admire a brilliant mind like Vidal's

Gore has become a witty Chomsky
If Vidal is just a witty Chomsky then Michael Jordan is just a polite Latrell Sprewell. Don't insult him like that, man...
posted by matteo at 6:50 AM on July 9, 2002

Allow me to apologize to Vidal then:

We at Mefi apologize for comparing your to Noam Chomsky.

Thanks and goodnight.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:58 AM on July 9, 2002

i found this plastic discussion from way back pretty insightful (incoherent modappeal :) re: "the second law" wrt politics. like it's not so much the art of the possible as the art of what you can get away with! sort of a "better reign in hell than serve in heaven" type argument.
posted by kliuless at 7:15 AM on July 9, 2002

I do agree with Vidal that there doesn't seem to be much of a credible opposition left. I mean, honestly: the Greens are shrill and ignorant, the Libertarians are nutty and bombastic, and the Democrats and Republicans seem to be locked in this circular little dance of dynamic stasis. It looks like there's nobody in credible opposition to the status quo.
posted by hob at 7:59 AM on July 9, 2002

Vidal does seem somewhat spent, and while I find some of his interpretations of events hard to swallow, I applaud his basic desire to roll back the 'American Empire' and return to being a simple republic. With voices like Vidal's on the far left and Buchanan's on the far right both calling for a voluntary end to our global military hegemony, I wonder we're seeing the seeds of a new isolationist trend.
posted by homunculus at 10:50 AM on July 9, 2002

...I wonder if we're seeing the seeds of a renewed isolationist trend.
posted by homunculus at 10:55 AM on July 9, 2002

GV is as full of shit as a Thanksgiving turkey and he reminds me of those conspiracy theory nuts up in Northern Idaho in that he makes up and twists facts to fit his rant: "We had planned to occupy Afghanistan in October...", "most of what we give (foriegn aid) goes to Israel and a little bit to Egypt. "Millions of Americans agree with his (Mcveigh) general reasoning"...a willingness to distort and invent 'facts' cheapens his opinions and conclusions.
posted by Mack Twain at 11:40 AM on July 9, 2002

Note to self: do not have Thanksgiving dinner at Mack Twain's.
posted by Skot at 11:51 AM on July 9, 2002