"You never underestimate Alireza – he’s devilishly tricky!"

April 18, 2020 9:13 AM

In the Banter Blitz Cup - in which chess players have to talk the whole time about what they're thinking and feeling while playing rapid games - dominant world chess champion Magnus Carlsen has been defeated by 16-year-old Alireza Firouzja in a dramatic and entertaining final match.
posted by clawsoon (25 comments total)

Alireza Firouzja is Iranian, but stopped playing under the Iranian flag when Iran refused to allow Iranians to play matches with Israelis. He is now living in France.
posted by eye of newt at 10:22 AM on April 18, 2020 [5 favorites]

“Ok then, I’m going to lose,” concluded Magnus, but that didn’t stop him playing on in the slender hope of flagging, or stalemating, his opponent.

Unfortunately, this sentence could give the impression that those are the same thing. Flagging: winning by the opponents clock running out, possibly despite being in a losing position. Stalemating: reaching a draw when one side has no legal moves; again, sought after by the losing side, as a way to swindle out of defeat. I'm sure the writer knows this, and just inadvertently wrote some copy that could be misleading to someone uninitiated in chess jargon.
posted by thelonius at 10:42 AM on April 18, 2020 [2 favorites]

As someone who has boasted that he could teach anyone how to beat him in chess after 5 games - thanks for posting! This was easy to follow and instructive as well as just delightful to watch someone think so hard.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 11:03 AM on April 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

Can someone explain to a layperson how it is that a 16-yr-old kid can beat the world's top chess player like that? Is Carlsen just not a speed-chess guy? Is he not trying his hardest? Or is the kid just an amazing prodigy of some kind?
posted by mikeand1 at 12:00 PM on April 18, 2020

Is Carlsen just not a speed-chess guy?
He is an extremely strong speed chess player.

Is he not trying his hardest?
He is...sometimes you just aren't at your best, no matter what you do.

Or is the kid just an amazing prodigy of some kind?
Basically this, it seems. But computers and online play have enabled talented kids to train like crazy, and the best of them become grandmasters by about 13 now. Apparently, if you aren't a GM by that age, you can forget about your chances of becoming a top player. I mean...look at this 10-year-old player playing 1 minute games. That's the competition.
posted by thelonius at 12:22 PM on April 18, 2020 [4 favorites]

Yeah chess these days is dominated by child prodigies. Carlsen was also a GM at 13 (he's 29 now). He's probably the best speed chess player, but he's at his peak and Firouzja is on his way up (ranked something like 20th in classical chess) so it's not surprising to see Carlsen lose a game.
posted by atoxyl at 12:38 PM on April 18, 2020

Everybody currently seems to think Alireza could be the next big thing (i.e. World Champion one day) including Magnus. But there have been several meteoric prodigies who looked like they could and "just" ended up being top tier players.
posted by atoxyl at 12:47 PM on April 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

I wonder if this forced Carlson into multitasking at two things he’s bad at doing at the same time. For example: to a limited degree, I can type prose and hold an unrelated conversation simultaneously, but if random passers-by are talking to each other without my involvement I find it really difficult to get any coding done because it requires too much concentration.
posted by ardgedee at 1:11 PM on April 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

I wonder if this forced Carlson into multitasking at two things he’s bad at doing at the same time

He's the world blitz champion, so probably not. He had also absolutely bulldozed every previous competitor in this tournament, winning his semifinal match 9-0. It looks like he just got complacent, as he says himself somewhere in this video.

If you watch nothing else, watch the game that begins right at the hour mark. Carlsen checkmates Alireza with two-tenths of a second on the clock. I had to slow the video to half speed to even follow the moves, let alone understand what was going on.
posted by hoist with his own pet aardvark at 1:17 PM on April 18, 2020 [2 favorites]

After watching the first game I wonder what the interface was to move pieces. Keyboard? A lot of the moves seem too fast to be a mouse especially with the risk of a blunder by rushing.
posted by exogenous at 1:34 PM on April 18, 2020

Carlsen uses a track pad to make moves. (Why yes, Banter Blitz has become my coronavirus comfort viewing, thanks for asking.)
posted by hoist with his own pet aardvark at 1:37 PM on April 18, 2020 [2 favorites]

Carlsen has done lots of "Banter Blitz" stuff (though this may be the first one with a serious prize?) so no I'd say he's in his element. Again it's the number 1 ranked player losing to the number ~20 ranked player - and a lot of these young players are better at speed chess than classical but that includes Magnus himself - so it's not that outlandish that it happened, though the way that the skill curve in chess works the number 1 player is not expected to lose a lot of games to the number 20 player. The exciting part is that this kid is already number 20 and still on his way up.
posted by atoxyl at 1:49 PM on April 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

What most people don't understand is that people who are naturals at chess need only a few years to learn things like opening books (the first moves of a game) and gain some experience playing others. So if you start playing at six, by the time you are twelve you are very, very good. You might improve a little after that, but after a few years of frequent play you are probably close to as good as you are going to get. Basing strength on age is a classic mistake.

Another thing is that frequently young players are better at speed chess. Their minds frequently just run a little faster than the older ones.
posted by Xoc at 2:36 PM on April 18, 2020

I see that most of the players are already on to the Magnus Carlsen Invitational, with Carlsen winning his first day match (against Nakamura, a fan of the Bongcloud opening) and Firouzja losing (to Ding).
posted by clawsoon at 5:37 PM on April 18, 2020

Also today, the Magnus Carlsen Invitational started. It’s streaming live on chess24, with different match scoring rules than FIDE uses.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:40 PM on April 18, 2020

Jinx! I mean... checkmate!
posted by clawsoon at 6:48 PM on April 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

I'm not a chess player but I played both videos synchronized and it was fun to listen to both players at the same time. It is like they are psychic in predicting what the other will do.
posted by procrastination at 7:36 PM on April 18, 2020

AliReza is 16 and playing in the much more significant Magnus Invitational which features the top players competing in a rapid chess time control — each player gets 15 minutes plus a 10 second increment before each move in this format and no draws may he offered before move 40. Banter blitz is fun to watch but the extremely short time controls are not good indicators of all around chess strength. For example American Andrew Tang is a perennial online 1 minute aka bullet chess winner; but is no where near the top 20 players in the world.
posted by interogative mood at 7:50 PM on April 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

Watching Nakamura casually destroy average players while chatting with fans... has there ever been a sporting opportunity for the average person quite like this before? Average Joes line up to get deked by Gretzky, or throw a pitch to Babe Ruth, or try to block Michael Jordan?
posted by clawsoon at 7:54 PM on April 18, 2020 [1 favorite]

Worth noting that chess24's "Banter Blitz" series does that kind of feature as well as the matches between GMs. HEre is Caruana from earlier today.
posted by thelonius at 8:01 PM on April 18, 2020

Yeah, I'm a gamer, though not chess or go or shogi, but the time pressure changes things so much. I've played heavy games with slow players, who were very good, but I'm certain they would fall apart under time pressure. Pretty much wholly different games. Especially abstracts, where not only do computers thrash humans, but where given long enough, all outcomes can be figured out.

I find is fascinating that these old abstracts still command audiences and prize money. I guess it's a lot like e-sports have attracted cash, which I get, the companies having profit motives for making their games competitive, see MtG as well, but... When can I get paid for playing Tigris, or Crokinole?

Historical cultural reasons I guess. What "people" think has value. How many professional Checkers players are there. Professional gaming is an odd beast. Sorry for the Euro derail.
posted by Windopaene at 8:52 PM on April 18, 2020

I often watch these banter games, because it's extremely interesting to hear someone like Magnus commenting on their own moves and the overall game in real time. Even for someone like me, who couldn't chess their way out of a paper bag.
posted by Dumsnill at 11:03 PM on April 18, 2020

Windopaene: When can I get paid for playing Tigris, or Crokinole?

Start the world's most entertaining crokinole Twitch channel and see what happens!
posted by clawsoon at 7:12 AM on April 19, 2020

> A lot of the moves seem too fast to be a mouse

Maybe you're seeing premoves? While you wait for your opponent to play, you can make a move to be automatically played as soon as they move.
posted by ZipRibbons at 7:39 AM on April 19, 2020 [2 favorites]

In the 2018 Chess championship between Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana, both players were too talented, studied, and careful to take unnecessary risks. The result was 11 straight draws. Then in game 12, the last game before a tie-breaker phase, Magnus appeared clearly ahead. Then, surprising everyone, Magnus offered a draw. Many, including world champion Kasparov think he's lost his cool.

Or did he? Maybe he has a plan. The tie-breaker is basically blitz chess, where he clearly has the advantage. He quickly wins three games and wins the tournament.

I just mention this as an example of how confident Magnus is in his Blitz chess capabilities.
posted by eye of newt at 1:31 PM on April 19, 2020 [1 favorite]