A succinct cut on the situation at CHOP
June 23, 2020 10:50 AM Subscribe
"...as we enter the final act of this Shakespearean tragedy of errors, it seems few will emerge unscathed."
An extremely fair overview of the situation that led to CHOP, where it is now, and the tensions within the Seattle political apparatus that will shape what happens next
Thanks; this is good. Or at least it confirms many of my biases so it must be right?
I know a city employee who has worked on that project to return city properties to the community, and I’ve gotten the sense from this person that Mayor Durkan has that unfortunate characteristic of many bad leaders where she wants to be the one making all the decisions but is frequently unable or unwilling to actually do so.
posted by Slothrup at 11:59 AM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I know a city employee who has worked on that project to return city properties to the community, and I’ve gotten the sense from this person that Mayor Durkan has that unfortunate characteristic of many bad leaders where she wants to be the one making all the decisions but is frequently unable or unwilling to actually do so.
posted by Slothrup at 11:59 AM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
CHOP = Capitol Hill Organized Protest Area
Thanks. I was confused what the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia had to do with it but I was all ears.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:48 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
Thanks. I was confused what the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia had to do with it but I was all ears.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:48 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I'll be looking myself, but I would love to see takes not written by a white man.
Here's one black-run media outlet that's been doing a lot of great front-line coverage: whereweconverge.com.
posted by Cogito at 12:54 PM on June 23, 2020 [15 favorites]
Here's one black-run media outlet that's been doing a lot of great front-line coverage: whereweconverge.com.
posted by Cogito at 12:54 PM on June 23, 2020 [15 favorites]
you know what, my undisclosed location is not seattle so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what do i know? but nevertheless this piece leaves a bad taste in my mouth. like, let’s focus on the parts about kshama sawant. there’s stuff i don’t agree with sawant on (i mean, she’s a member of a trotskyist party) and there’s stuff she’s done that i’ve found obnoxious (i mean... she’s a member of a trotskyist party...) but a lot of the stuff the author is singling out as particularly bad just seems like effective politics to me. like, the city hall takeover where she let people into the building? it seems to me that both literally and metaphorically it’s useful when taking over city hall to have help from someone on the inside.
basically “trots are obnoxious” is kind of a dog-bites-man story and anyone particularly surprised by it doesn’t understand organizing spaces. they’re almost always there. they’re almost always obnoxious. sometimes they’re effectively obnoxious and do good things. sometimes they’re ineffectively obnoxious and just annoy everyone. in this case the socialist alternative action seems relatively effectively obnoxious?
and like wow does this piece bend over backwards to assume good faith from jenny durkan and carmen best, without any evidence whatsoever to merit that good faith and with a ton of evidence against it.
there’s space in the world for a good critical analysis of the chop but i don’t trust this author to perform that analysis. ech. i don’t like this piece. change my mind. (but no, really, change my mind. especially folks who’ve been to the chop, please change my mind).
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 12:58 PM on June 23, 2020 [21 favorites]
basically “trots are obnoxious” is kind of a dog-bites-man story and anyone particularly surprised by it doesn’t understand organizing spaces. they’re almost always there. they’re almost always obnoxious. sometimes they’re effectively obnoxious and do good things. sometimes they’re ineffectively obnoxious and just annoy everyone. in this case the socialist alternative action seems relatively effectively obnoxious?
and like wow does this piece bend over backwards to assume good faith from jenny durkan and carmen best, without any evidence whatsoever to merit that good faith and with a ton of evidence against it.
there’s space in the world for a good critical analysis of the chop but i don’t trust this author to perform that analysis. ech. i don’t like this piece. change my mind. (but no, really, change my mind. especially folks who’ve been to the chop, please change my mind).
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 12:58 PM on June 23, 2020 [21 favorites]
I'm so glad you said that, RNTP, because that's 100% what I've been feeling since I've read this but couldn't put into words. Like... this article gives a TON of totally unwarranted credulity to Durkan and Best. The ballsiness of the both-sidesing in here--[organizers'] public statements are beginning to match SPD’s for the level of spin: they claimed that Saturday night the SPD officers were never actually prevented from entering the CHOP to secure the shooting scene (despite video evidence that the crowd was, indeed, hostile).
I mean sure on the one hand, SPD has a proven track record of terrorizing and abusing the people of Seattle, particularly BIPOC, and they fucking TEAR GASSED A NINE YEAR OLD ON CAMERA and arrested the photographer after the photos went public during this most recent bout of protests, but on the other, people were "hostile" to cops in the weeks following these incidents!
What should we call the corporate-techbro equivalent of pearl-clutching?
posted by sugar and confetti at 1:25 PM on June 23, 2020 [12 favorites]
I mean sure on the one hand, SPD has a proven track record of terrorizing and abusing the people of Seattle, particularly BIPOC, and they fucking TEAR GASSED A NINE YEAR OLD ON CAMERA and arrested the photographer after the photos went public during this most recent bout of protests, but on the other, people were "hostile" to cops in the weeks following these incidents!
What should we call the corporate-techbro equivalent of pearl-clutching?
posted by sugar and confetti at 1:25 PM on June 23, 2020 [12 favorites]
"But the other Council members, perhaps not wanting to be outdone by other progressive cities, have turned this into political theater and tripped over themselves in a mad rush to crank out bills to make them look responsive to protesters’ demands: bans on SPD’s use of chokeholds and crowd-control weapons, restricting mourning badges, conducting an inquest on SPD’s budget "
What kind of bullshit framing is this? Banning dangerous chokeholds and "crowd control weapons" is addressing (a part of) the problem. The SPD has been under federal oversight because of their excessive use of force, particularly against people of color. Trying to stop some portion of that is incremental progress. Sure, it's not enough, but why frame it as "political theater"?
Look at the headlining photo in this article about the protests. This was in a residential neighborhood, after tear gas had been 'banned' by Durkan. Citizens that are in their own apartments report the gas seeping in to their homes. Police went to neighboring buildings to kick tenants off their own roofs because their videos of police brutality were damning.
The Seattle Police Department has been using the excuse of "mourning badges" to black out their badge numbers, so that they can't be identified when using excessive force (like when they teargassed a child! at a peaceful protest!). Restricting the use of mourning badges is apparently necessary when the police are willing to use them to stop any accountability. And in case you don't know what these mourning badges look like, here's the new guidelines. They were literally a bit of electrical tape covering ONLY the badge number.
And, considering that defunding the police is one of the main goals of the protests, the city council looking to the police budgets is democracy in action, not political theater. And that's just what's wrong with one sentence. I just don't have time to tear apart the rest of the article.
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 1:33 PM on June 23, 2020 [26 favorites]
What kind of bullshit framing is this? Banning dangerous chokeholds and "crowd control weapons" is addressing (a part of) the problem. The SPD has been under federal oversight because of their excessive use of force, particularly against people of color. Trying to stop some portion of that is incremental progress. Sure, it's not enough, but why frame it as "political theater"?
Look at the headlining photo in this article about the protests. This was in a residential neighborhood, after tear gas had been 'banned' by Durkan. Citizens that are in their own apartments report the gas seeping in to their homes. Police went to neighboring buildings to kick tenants off their own roofs because their videos of police brutality were damning.
The Seattle Police Department has been using the excuse of "mourning badges" to black out their badge numbers, so that they can't be identified when using excessive force (like when they teargassed a child! at a peaceful protest!). Restricting the use of mourning badges is apparently necessary when the police are willing to use them to stop any accountability. And in case you don't know what these mourning badges look like, here's the new guidelines. They were literally a bit of electrical tape covering ONLY the badge number.
And, considering that defunding the police is one of the main goals of the protests, the city council looking to the police budgets is democracy in action, not political theater. And that's just what's wrong with one sentence. I just don't have time to tear apart the rest of the article.
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 1:33 PM on June 23, 2020 [26 favorites]
yeah uncritically repeating the phrase “mourning badge” is some next-level newspeak nonsense. my mind has been changed: whereas previously i didn’t like this piece but was willing to give it some small benefit of the doubt, upon closer examination it doesn’t seem valuable at all.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 1:36 PM on June 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 1:36 PM on June 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
Yeah, nothing pays tribute to fallen officers like putting some electrical tape over your badge number so you can go around tear gassing peaceful protesters without any consequences!
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 1:41 PM on June 23, 2020 [29 favorites]
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 1:41 PM on June 23, 2020 [29 favorites]
found it interesting for including some local detail / inside baseball and for having a different bias from everything else i've read about chop, which has either been focused on how great it is (which, totally, but that's never going to be the whole story), or has been extremely and predictably critical (boring + stupid), or has gone for the same attempt at wonkish dispassion (that's still a bias!) but without any actual detail or analysis (biased or otherwise).
that may of course reflect the paucity of my reading rather than saying anything very complimentary about this article, but there we are.
posted by inire at 1:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
that may of course reflect the paucity of my reading rather than saying anything very complimentary about this article, but there we are.
posted by inire at 1:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
So the author doesn't particularly let Durkan or the Police Chief go uncriticised:
The original sinners are of course the police, still wrestling with biased policing practices eight years into the Consent Decree. They then piled on by committing the first act of irony in this tale: when faced with an angry protest over the police’s excessive use of force, they responded with excessive use of force — ultimately turning Capitol Hill into a tear-gassed war zone. They compounded that error by failing time and again to explain their actions by providing thin justifications that fell apart almost immediately upon examination of protesters’ and journalists’ videos of the events, or by simply failing to provide any coherent explanation at all.
...
We have also heard contradictory, or simply poorly explained, stories about SPD 911 response times in the area with the East Precinct shut down, SPD’s policies for responding to calls in the CHOP, and how police officers were met by protesters when attempting to respond to the shootings (SPD said that crowd was “violent,” then later backed that down to “hostile”).
On Chief Best specifically:
We can acknowledge that she is working under a microscope, and yet her words and actions have not lived up to expectations: after a somewhat misleading announcement of a ban on the use of tear gas by patrol officers, we learned that she was the one who authorized it in the first place — and then she authorized it again less than 48 hours after her ban.
And of course, some choice words for the Seattle Police Officer's Guild:
And, of course, we can’t forget the villain in the story: SPOG, which has obstructed police reform efforts and last week was expelled from the MLK Labor Council after Council members didn’t buy the police union’s sorry-not-sorry letter as sufficiently owning up to the work that the union needs to do to address the continuing issues with police bias and use of force in Seattle.
I live a few blocks away from the CHOP, and voted for Kshama Sawant twice. I'm used to a certain level of anti-socialist trollery in local media outlets, so I'm a little bit inured to the anti-Sawant stance. She's pretty polarizing. The City Council gets a lot of abuse too, and it's not entirely unwarranted. The head tax, which they approved, then repealed again after a stern look from the Mayor is an example of how the Seattle Process works. It wasn't great policy, but people get annoyed, because while sometimes their policies seem driven by public opinion, big business tends to have an outsized hand in the way things actually play out, so we can never really tell what's going to happen, whether they voice support for a particular position or not.
--
Basically, viewed through a filter of local attitudes, this seems like a relatively even-handed post to me.
posted by fnerg at 1:58 PM on June 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
The original sinners are of course the police, still wrestling with biased policing practices eight years into the Consent Decree. They then piled on by committing the first act of irony in this tale: when faced with an angry protest over the police’s excessive use of force, they responded with excessive use of force — ultimately turning Capitol Hill into a tear-gassed war zone. They compounded that error by failing time and again to explain their actions by providing thin justifications that fell apart almost immediately upon examination of protesters’ and journalists’ videos of the events, or by simply failing to provide any coherent explanation at all.
...
We have also heard contradictory, or simply poorly explained, stories about SPD 911 response times in the area with the East Precinct shut down, SPD’s policies for responding to calls in the CHOP, and how police officers were met by protesters when attempting to respond to the shootings (SPD said that crowd was “violent,” then later backed that down to “hostile”).
On Chief Best specifically:
We can acknowledge that she is working under a microscope, and yet her words and actions have not lived up to expectations: after a somewhat misleading announcement of a ban on the use of tear gas by patrol officers, we learned that she was the one who authorized it in the first place — and then she authorized it again less than 48 hours after her ban.
And of course, some choice words for the Seattle Police Officer's Guild:
And, of course, we can’t forget the villain in the story: SPOG, which has obstructed police reform efforts and last week was expelled from the MLK Labor Council after Council members didn’t buy the police union’s sorry-not-sorry letter as sufficiently owning up to the work that the union needs to do to address the continuing issues with police bias and use of force in Seattle.
I live a few blocks away from the CHOP, and voted for Kshama Sawant twice. I'm used to a certain level of anti-socialist trollery in local media outlets, so I'm a little bit inured to the anti-Sawant stance. She's pretty polarizing. The City Council gets a lot of abuse too, and it's not entirely unwarranted. The head tax, which they approved, then repealed again after a stern look from the Mayor is an example of how the Seattle Process works. It wasn't great policy, but people get annoyed, because while sometimes their policies seem driven by public opinion, big business tends to have an outsized hand in the way things actually play out, so we can never really tell what's going to happen, whether they voice support for a particular position or not.
--
Basically, viewed through a filter of local attitudes, this seems like a relatively even-handed post to me.
posted by fnerg at 1:58 PM on June 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
Interesting how they call out Sawant for saying that one of the shooters was right wing, when even in their link the quote is, "If this killing turns out to be a right-wing attack". (Emphasis mine) Which was perfectly logical, since a week prior the man who drove into the protest and shot somebody was the brother of a SPD officer at the East Precinct.
Also interesting is how they elided Best's claim that businesses in the CHOP were being extorted... which was a complete fabrication that she also had to walk back. Source.
Such fair, unbiased reporting!
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 2:01 PM on June 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
Also interesting is how they elided Best's claim that businesses in the CHOP were being extorted... which was a complete fabrication that she also had to walk back. Source.
Such fair, unbiased reporting!
posted by Behemoth, in no. 302-bis, with the Browning at 2:01 PM on June 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
i imagine the comment they're referring to is the statement earlier in that link that "there are indications that this may have been a right-wing attack" (which is not outright saying it was, true, but is also rather stronger and more concrete than 'who knows, could be the fash').
also, yes it is an even-handed post, and that is the nature of its bias - cf. even-handed articles on climate change. not to say there's no value in it, but even-handed is not unbiased.
posted by inire at 2:10 PM on June 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
also, yes it is an even-handed post, and that is the nature of its bias - cf. even-handed articles on climate change. not to say there's no value in it, but even-handed is not unbiased.
posted by inire at 2:10 PM on June 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
> We can acknowledge that she is working under a microscope, and yet her words and actions have not lived up to expectations
the thing is though only a select subset of folks ever had particularly high expectations for either the police chief or the ex-prosecutor mayor. the framing you highlighted as evenhanded isn’t evenhanded: it’s the least-bad possible spin for durkan, best, and the spd, given how reprehensibly they’ve behaved.
there’s this funny double-vision going on in this piece, since peeking out from behind the both-sides piece that the author wants to write are the facts of the matter, facts which indict one side and not the other.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 2:12 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
the thing is though only a select subset of folks ever had particularly high expectations for either the police chief or the ex-prosecutor mayor. the framing you highlighted as evenhanded isn’t evenhanded: it’s the least-bad possible spin for durkan, best, and the spd, given how reprehensibly they’ve behaved.
there’s this funny double-vision going on in this piece, since peeking out from behind the both-sides piece that the author wants to write are the facts of the matter, facts which indict one side and not the other.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 2:12 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
This is a pretty thorough article which reflects the standard SCC Insight perspective of being fairly law-and-order, Durkans-not-bad, stupid-wellmeaning-lefties-fuck-up-again. I think there should be more focus on how Best and Durkan are actively lying in every public statement, and it's incredibly disingeneous to pretend that crowd hostility and yelling is the same thing as preventing police from entering the area. This is the kind of thing my well meaning rich friends read and then say "well, how could Durkan possibly do better?".
(but no, really, change my mind. especially folks who’ve been to the chop, please change my mind).
I've been there, and no, don't change your mind.
posted by bashing rocks together at 2:20 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
(but no, really, change my mind. especially folks who’ve been to the chop, please change my mind).
I've been there, and no, don't change your mind.
posted by bashing rocks together at 2:20 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
there’s this funny double-vision going on in this piece, since peeking out from behind the both-sides spin the author wants to write are the facts of the matter, facts which indict one side and not the other.
This is a fair assessment too.
I'm pretty lefty, and the police have been spinning the fork out of literally everything / outright lying about everything that's been happening for the last few weeks, so I guess seeing facts and links that support what I've actually been seeing in the area makes me happy enough to glaze over framing devices.
Overton window? Maybe, but it doesn't take THAT much squinting to see which side is indictable.
posted by fnerg at 2:21 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is a fair assessment too.
I'm pretty lefty, and the police have been spinning the fork out of literally everything / outright lying about everything that's been happening for the last few weeks, so I guess seeing facts and links that support what I've actually been seeing in the area makes me happy enough to glaze over framing devices.
Overton window? Maybe, but it doesn't take THAT much squinting to see which side is indictable.
posted by fnerg at 2:21 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
Hi.
I’m IN CHOP now (Well, a few blocks away at the moment). But I live and work here. I’ve been here almost every day since June 7th.
After the egregious and violent response by the police my wife and I have been active in attempting to help with protestors needs when we can. Making signs. Donating money. Food. Medical supplies. But CHOP has quickly devolved into a mess of conflicting interests.
This article, excepting for a few omissions, is spot on. I find many of the criticisms of this piece totally baseless and almost completely uncharitable misreads.
It is true that CHOP was almost totally exploited and taken from BLM by a number of other groups and agendas and there is no real organization running anything In any real sense any more.
What should we call the corporate-techbro equivalent of pearl-clutching?
This I find enormously offensive. That “Pearl” clutching was the over the death of nineteen year old boy who had just graduated high school.
When that shooting happened first responders could not get to the scene. That is a fact.
The crowd wasn’t just protesters. BLM has a much smaller presence at night.
This scene starts to change character entirely after 10pm. It becomes a haven for partiers, dealers, drunks, and trouble makers. Which is not unusual for the area. It’s like that every summer. But now x10.
But the effect having no authority utterly transforms the area into a reactionary mob governed by rumor and quick to anger. No one knows what is going on. When the police showed up after the shooting half the people didn’t even know why and nobody was telling them it was because of an injured person.
And that mob cost a young man his life. I know this as a fact. I’ve talked to at least five people there. I was at home by then.
When innocent people start dying for your theoretical utopia — then we part ways. How many more shooting will it take? Any more deaths and the entire point will have been lost.
We all know there are powerful interests wanting CHOP to go bad. So why give them what they want?
The good will of the neighborhood is quickly evaporating and some sort of lawful order must be returned. Otherwise no good will come from
This. People’s nerves are too bare.
Nobody, even BLM, asked for CHOP. The police just ran away and we ended up here. We just got stuck with it.
And now it looks like it’s going to end very badly unless what few organized interests can just accept it has outlived its usefulness and walk away. The East Precinct is not a bargaining chip. A non elected mob can’t be an occupying army. They have no moral authority to hold a community by force. So far the neighborhood has been reasonably supportive. But after three nights of shootings that is evaporating.
If you want to ask me questions, go ahead. I’ll doxx myself if necessary. I’ll post pictures if you want. But this shit isn’t good guys against bad guys any more. It’s just a morass.
posted by herenow at 2:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [39 favorites]
I’m IN CHOP now (Well, a few blocks away at the moment). But I live and work here. I’ve been here almost every day since June 7th.
After the egregious and violent response by the police my wife and I have been active in attempting to help with protestors needs when we can. Making signs. Donating money. Food. Medical supplies. But CHOP has quickly devolved into a mess of conflicting interests.
This article, excepting for a few omissions, is spot on. I find many of the criticisms of this piece totally baseless and almost completely uncharitable misreads.
It is true that CHOP was almost totally exploited and taken from BLM by a number of other groups and agendas and there is no real organization running anything In any real sense any more.
What should we call the corporate-techbro equivalent of pearl-clutching?
This I find enormously offensive. That “Pearl” clutching was the over the death of nineteen year old boy who had just graduated high school.
When that shooting happened first responders could not get to the scene. That is a fact.
The crowd wasn’t just protesters. BLM has a much smaller presence at night.
This scene starts to change character entirely after 10pm. It becomes a haven for partiers, dealers, drunks, and trouble makers. Which is not unusual for the area. It’s like that every summer. But now x10.
But the effect having no authority utterly transforms the area into a reactionary mob governed by rumor and quick to anger. No one knows what is going on. When the police showed up after the shooting half the people didn’t even know why and nobody was telling them it was because of an injured person.
And that mob cost a young man his life. I know this as a fact. I’ve talked to at least five people there. I was at home by then.
When innocent people start dying for your theoretical utopia — then we part ways. How many more shooting will it take? Any more deaths and the entire point will have been lost.
We all know there are powerful interests wanting CHOP to go bad. So why give them what they want?
The good will of the neighborhood is quickly evaporating and some sort of lawful order must be returned. Otherwise no good will come from
This. People’s nerves are too bare.
Nobody, even BLM, asked for CHOP. The police just ran away and we ended up here. We just got stuck with it.
And now it looks like it’s going to end very badly unless what few organized interests can just accept it has outlived its usefulness and walk away. The East Precinct is not a bargaining chip. A non elected mob can’t be an occupying army. They have no moral authority to hold a community by force. So far the neighborhood has been reasonably supportive. But after three nights of shootings that is evaporating.
If you want to ask me questions, go ahead. I’ll doxx myself if necessary. I’ll post pictures if you want. But this shit isn’t good guys against bad guys any more. It’s just a morass.
posted by herenow at 2:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [39 favorites]
herenow, can you talk a bit more about the conflicting interests / non-blm groups and agendas (who, what, why, etc.)?
posted by inire at 2:50 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by inire at 2:50 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
FWIW I live in CHOP and my apartment was tear gassed. I hate the East Precinct. I hated it before the demonstrations and I want it gone. But Black leaders in the Central District, if the press conference this article refers to is to be believed, want the police back into the Precinct. To which I am despondent.
So, based on the press conference, this was the only article I’ve found that even began to approach the situation with any kind of cogent analysis.
I have disagreements with the article, I’ll probably run across the author at some point and I believe I can probably have a pointed discussion that won’t devolve into useless posturing with nothing getting accomplished.
Also the violence on Capitol Hill was there before the demonstrations and will remain long after CHOP is gone. I am not very hopeful that any meaningful change will result from this and that that feels like a huge lost opportunity based on tragic mistakes made on all sides.
With regards to Kshama Sawant, I voted for her. I am a socialist, more in the vein of Rosa Luxemburg than anything else. I like what she’s doing but I also think there are valid critiques of how she handled it. At the city hall event, for instance, Black speakers challenged her to not appropriate the struggle away from Black Lives Matter back into a class struggle. Which, I don’t know that she really got the message and one of my main critiques of US leftism is the continuously obtuse way that they make race a subservient issue to class. That tension doesn’t seem like it will be resolved any time soon and is why the Central District and Capitol Hill are at political odds with each other at this moment in time. Black leaders don’t seem sold on Kshama and until socialism adapts to the unique history of the US it will continue to go nowhere and sabotage any efforts at becoming a part of a broader coalition.
posted by nikaspark at 2:56 PM on June 23, 2020 [25 favorites]
So, based on the press conference, this was the only article I’ve found that even began to approach the situation with any kind of cogent analysis.
I have disagreements with the article, I’ll probably run across the author at some point and I believe I can probably have a pointed discussion that won’t devolve into useless posturing with nothing getting accomplished.
Also the violence on Capitol Hill was there before the demonstrations and will remain long after CHOP is gone. I am not very hopeful that any meaningful change will result from this and that that feels like a huge lost opportunity based on tragic mistakes made on all sides.
With regards to Kshama Sawant, I voted for her. I am a socialist, more in the vein of Rosa Luxemburg than anything else. I like what she’s doing but I also think there are valid critiques of how she handled it. At the city hall event, for instance, Black speakers challenged her to not appropriate the struggle away from Black Lives Matter back into a class struggle. Which, I don’t know that she really got the message and one of my main critiques of US leftism is the continuously obtuse way that they make race a subservient issue to class. That tension doesn’t seem like it will be resolved any time soon and is why the Central District and Capitol Hill are at political odds with each other at this moment in time. Black leaders don’t seem sold on Kshama and until socialism adapts to the unique history of the US it will continue to go nowhere and sabotage any efforts at becoming a part of a broader coalition.
posted by nikaspark at 2:56 PM on June 23, 2020 [25 favorites]
And that mob cost a young man his life. I know this as a fact. I’ve talked to at least five people there. I was at home by then.
No, you don't know that, because it is literally not a fact. And neither do however many people you talked to, unless one of them said that they personally shot the kid because the crowd existed.
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:02 PM on June 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
No, you don't know that, because it is literally not a fact. And neither do however many people you talked to, unless one of them said that they personally shot the kid because the crowd existed.
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:02 PM on June 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
But it is totally true that the goodwill of the neighborhood is being lost and lots of nearby residents won't support BLM again until black men are being shot safely away in South Seattle and Renton, instead of having the nerve to come up into Capitol Hill.
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:04 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:04 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
> Which, I don’t know that she really got the message and one of my main critiques of US leftism is the continuously obtuse way that they make race a subservient issue to class.
this is super deep into the weeds but if i had to identify a single cause for the failure of organized american socialism (and especially american trotskyism) to take race into account, i’d blame mccarthyism. wait what? you say. well, the thing is that mccarthyism worked — america’s homegrown socialist movements were utterly decimated, and when the trotskyists started to come back they imported a big chunk of their leadership from the united kingdom. and these imported european leaders had precisely no idea how race works under american settler-colonialist capitalism.
i’m glad you mentioned rosa cause her work on hyperexploitation / primitive accumulation is what i go to when i talk about socialism with american socialists
herenow: omg don’t dox yourself but plz share whatever you can. here in my undisclosed location the cops are pretty nakedly responding to the protests against police murder by trying to make life intolerable for everyone / to introduce and encourage violence, and so i’m primed to assign all the blame (instead of just most of the blame) to the cops.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 3:05 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
this is super deep into the weeds but if i had to identify a single cause for the failure of organized american socialism (and especially american trotskyism) to take race into account, i’d blame mccarthyism. wait what? you say. well, the thing is that mccarthyism worked — america’s homegrown socialist movements were utterly decimated, and when the trotskyists started to come back they imported a big chunk of their leadership from the united kingdom. and these imported european leaders had precisely no idea how race works under american settler-colonialist capitalism.
i’m glad you mentioned rosa cause her work on hyperexploitation / primitive accumulation is what i go to when i talk about socialism with american socialists
herenow: omg don’t dox yourself but plz share whatever you can. here in my undisclosed location the cops are pretty nakedly responding to the protests against police murder by trying to make life intolerable for everyone / to introduce and encourage violence, and so i’m primed to assign all the blame (instead of just most of the blame) to the cops.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 3:05 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
If I knew who they were for sure I would tell you.
I mostly interact with medics. I’m going down to get more stuff from my office in an hour and I’ll ask around (because my feeling is there is going to be a confrontation in the next day or two so I’m taking stuff to work from home). But I’m not sure people want to be doxxed if you’re asking for names.
There were a handful of fairly experienced BLM activists I saw here most days at the beginning. But now it’s a couple very young women who are here during the day that I don’t recognize. Maybe those previous activists are meeting downtown? I don’t know.
The rest is a rotating cavalcade of Anarchist, old school leftists and Sawant people and well intended and delightful volunteers. There is no unifying center though. Not that I have seen. And at night... I’ll be honest. It’s half shit bags looking for trouble and the other half just trying to keep the peace.
During the day I have seen various groups argue and be at odds over basic things like where road blocks go or tents go or when a city officials are allowed where. A few fist fights. Nothing cohesive. But nothing awful. People think there is going to be an announcement and it never comes. Or it’s about something else. Etc.
I think that is pretty normal for protests.
But an occupation is different. You need an organization. You need to have the people that live there as active willing participants and know who to talk to and what to expect. There is NONE OF THAT.
At first there was. The first day or so I would ask a medic what was happening. But nobody knows anymore.
posted by herenow at 3:07 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
I mostly interact with medics. I’m going down to get more stuff from my office in an hour and I’ll ask around (because my feeling is there is going to be a confrontation in the next day or two so I’m taking stuff to work from home). But I’m not sure people want to be doxxed if you’re asking for names.
There were a handful of fairly experienced BLM activists I saw here most days at the beginning. But now it’s a couple very young women who are here during the day that I don’t recognize. Maybe those previous activists are meeting downtown? I don’t know.
The rest is a rotating cavalcade of Anarchist, old school leftists and Sawant people and well intended and delightful volunteers. There is no unifying center though. Not that I have seen. And at night... I’ll be honest. It’s half shit bags looking for trouble and the other half just trying to keep the peace.
During the day I have seen various groups argue and be at odds over basic things like where road blocks go or tents go or when a city officials are allowed where. A few fist fights. Nothing cohesive. But nothing awful. People think there is going to be an announcement and it never comes. Or it’s about something else. Etc.
I think that is pretty normal for protests.
But an occupation is different. You need an organization. You need to have the people that live there as active willing participants and know who to talk to and what to expect. There is NONE OF THAT.
At first there was. The first day or so I would ask a medic what was happening. But nobody knows anymore.
posted by herenow at 3:07 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
BLM doesn’t really have much to do with CHOP and people have been getting shot and killed on the hill for a long time, the violence on the hill is not because of CHOP, it’s always been there and isn’t going away.
The discussion is “what do we do about the violence on Capitol Hill that the police in current form are antagonizing and making worse”.
posted by nikaspark at 3:07 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
The discussion is “what do we do about the violence on Capitol Hill that the police in current form are antagonizing and making worse”.
posted by nikaspark at 3:07 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
Was at the CHOP and think this article is objectively terrible, but I suspect it’s like a Rorschach test of your political positioning.
First and foremost: the crowd at the CHOP did not block ambulances at the shooting. They blocked police. Someone, somewhere, fucked up - either intentionally or accidentally, and decided that they wouldn’t send ambulances in unless they could send police in with them. Kindest case, a fundamental misunderstanding of why precisely police are opposed - worst case, because dispatch knew the predictable consequences and wanted to make a point about “we’ll see how you do without government help”.
Secondly: CHOP didn’t “descend into infighting”, it was always created by multiple different groups with different visions and ideas, that banded together against a common enemy (the police). A lot of its structure and borders were built by local anarchists. That’s why it was declared an autonomous zone in the first place: those words have meaning. That’s why John Brown Gun Club and Sylvia Rivera Gun Club were initially patrolling when the threat of police counter response was still high. But that always meant that from that crew, you were never going to get “a leader” and you were never going to get “someone who could speak for the protest”. The organization that people liked initially? That was anarchists who all worked together and who are staying away now because of the liberalization of the scene.
posted by corb at 3:10 PM on June 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
First and foremost: the crowd at the CHOP did not block ambulances at the shooting. They blocked police. Someone, somewhere, fucked up - either intentionally or accidentally, and decided that they wouldn’t send ambulances in unless they could send police in with them. Kindest case, a fundamental misunderstanding of why precisely police are opposed - worst case, because dispatch knew the predictable consequences and wanted to make a point about “we’ll see how you do without government help”.
Secondly: CHOP didn’t “descend into infighting”, it was always created by multiple different groups with different visions and ideas, that banded together against a common enemy (the police). A lot of its structure and borders were built by local anarchists. That’s why it was declared an autonomous zone in the first place: those words have meaning. That’s why John Brown Gun Club and Sylvia Rivera Gun Club were initially patrolling when the threat of police counter response was still high. But that always meant that from that crew, you were never going to get “a leader” and you were never going to get “someone who could speak for the protest”. The organization that people liked initially? That was anarchists who all worked together and who are staying away now because of the liberalization of the scene.
posted by corb at 3:10 PM on June 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
No, you don't know that, because it is literally not a fact. And neither do however many people you talked to, unless one of them said that they personally shot the kid because the crowd existed.
Are you here? Do you talk to anyone who is everyday?
Yes it is a fact As far as we know. And I’m not debating that with someone not here.
posted by herenow at 3:10 PM on June 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
Are you here? Do you talk to anyone who is everyday?
Yes it is a fact As far as we know. And I’m not debating that with someone not here.
posted by herenow at 3:10 PM on June 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also: BLM Seattle is not losing support and I’ll be sad if Nikkita Oliver doesn’t run for Mayor again because part of the problem of Capitol Hill and Seattle in general are assimilationist white gays in positions of powerful leadership thinking they are the heroes of this story.
posted by nikaspark at 3:11 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by nikaspark at 3:11 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
Yes, actually.
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:12 PM on June 23, 2020
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:12 PM on June 23, 2020
Herenow: have you talked to people who said solo ambulances, not accompanied by cops, were barred? Because that’s very much not what I’ve heard from people who were on shift that night. Fog of war exists and there could be confusion, but that seems like a pretty big difference.
posted by corb at 3:14 PM on June 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 3:14 PM on June 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
But I’m not sure people want to be doxxed if you’re asking for names.
thanks for the insight - was wondering about groups and goals, zero desire for names
posted by inire at 3:14 PM on June 23, 2020
thanks for the insight - was wondering about groups and goals, zero desire for names
posted by inire at 3:14 PM on June 23, 2020
BLM doesn’t really have much to do with CHOP and people have been getting shot and killed on the hill for a long time, the violence on the hill is not because of CHOP, it’s always been there and isn’t going away.
This is true. Cal Anderson has always been a scene of violence and the summer specifically attracts late night problems.
And I agree people here support BLM. I want to make that clear.
What they are quickly losing support for is CHOP. Nobody up here wanted it. BLM didn’t want it. Nobody asked for it. We just had to make the best of it.
posted by herenow at 3:18 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
This is true. Cal Anderson has always been a scene of violence and the summer specifically attracts late night problems.
And I agree people here support BLM. I want to make that clear.
What they are quickly losing support for is CHOP. Nobody up here wanted it. BLM didn’t want it. Nobody asked for it. We just had to make the best of it.
posted by herenow at 3:18 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
This twitter thread goes into detail on the scene of the Friday night shooting in a way that I believe captures it pretty accurately.
I can't speak to the behavior of the crowd, I also don't blame the crowd. The SPD act as a near lawless gang and I personally don't want them on the hill ever again.
posted by nikaspark at 3:20 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
I can't speak to the behavior of the crowd, I also don't blame the crowd. The SPD act as a near lawless gang and I personally don't want them on the hill ever again.
posted by nikaspark at 3:20 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
Herenow: have you talked to people who said solo ambulances,
The cops responded first. And they couldn’t get through. And assumed it wasn’t safe for EMT’s. So they basically said a riot was forming. That sent the ambulance around to the other side.
Apparently there was so much misinformation and chatter and chaos that where the victim was taken was lost or miscommunicated. So the EMT’s ended up on the wrong part of zone so it took longer for the victim to get them.
It was the result of chaos not malice.
posted by herenow at 3:24 PM on June 23, 2020
The cops responded first. And they couldn’t get through. And assumed it wasn’t safe for EMT’s. So they basically said a riot was forming. That sent the ambulance around to the other side.
Apparently there was so much misinformation and chatter and chaos that where the victim was taken was lost or miscommunicated. So the EMT’s ended up on the wrong part of zone so it took longer for the victim to get them.
It was the result of chaos not malice.
posted by herenow at 3:24 PM on June 23, 2020
i mean isn't the problem that the police walked away when nobody asked for it? That they're holding law and order hostage until they get to teargas peaceful protestors and crack some heads?
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:25 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 3:25 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
the crowd at the CHOP did not block ambulances at the shooting. They blocked police. Someone, somewhere, fucked up - either intentionally or accidentally, and decided that they wouldn’t send ambulances in unless they could send police in with them
It is not uncommon for fire and ambulance to wait on the police to secure a location where there has been shooting; they don't typically go in first. If you really want to keep the police completely out of an area, there are second- and third-order consequences that would need be thought through, such as how to coordinate emergency response policies.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:26 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
It is not uncommon for fire and ambulance to wait on the police to secure a location where there has been shooting; they don't typically go in first. If you really want to keep the police completely out of an area, there are second- and third-order consequences that would need be thought through, such as how to coordinate emergency response policies.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:26 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
This twitter thread goes into detail on the scene of the Friday night shooting in a way that I believe captures it pretty accurately.
But those are not the first cops on scene? The first cops came through to Cal Anderson along the ballpark. That’s what the medic I talked to said.
posted by herenow at 3:27 PM on June 23, 2020
But those are not the first cops on scene? The first cops came through to Cal Anderson along the ballpark. That’s what the medic I talked to said.
posted by herenow at 3:27 PM on June 23, 2020
That they're holding law and order hostage until they get to teargas peaceful protestors and crack some heads?
This is SPD Police Commissioner Carmen Best's position, yes. You are 100% correct.
Her words, stated repeatedly at the the presser were "give us our less lethal methods back otherwise all we have are batons and handguns"
Which sounds like a mob boss, honestly.
posted by nikaspark at 3:28 PM on June 23, 2020 [10 favorites]
This is SPD Police Commissioner Carmen Best's position, yes. You are 100% correct.
Her words, stated repeatedly at the the presser were "give us our less lethal methods back otherwise all we have are batons and handguns"
Which sounds like a mob boss, honestly.
posted by nikaspark at 3:28 PM on June 23, 2020 [10 favorites]
The cops responded first. And they couldn’t get through. And assumed it wasn’t safe for EMT’s. So they basically said a riot was forming. That sent the ambulance around to the other side.
Right, so like I said - the police chose to make a judgment call about what would be safe for other people (the EMTs) based on either the absolutely incorrect assumption that what isn’t safe for police isn’t safe for EMTs, or they went on standard procedure that somehow hadn’t been updated since the CHOP began. At no point did they think “hey maybe we are escalating the situation”.
The failure to understand that folks might permit medical treatment but not arrests is either malice or a colossal error in judgment such that people should get fired.
posted by corb at 3:30 PM on June 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
Right, so like I said - the police chose to make a judgment call about what would be safe for other people (the EMTs) based on either the absolutely incorrect assumption that what isn’t safe for police isn’t safe for EMTs, or they went on standard procedure that somehow hadn’t been updated since the CHOP began. At no point did they think “hey maybe we are escalating the situation”.
The failure to understand that folks might permit medical treatment but not arrests is either malice or a colossal error in judgment such that people should get fired.
posted by corb at 3:30 PM on June 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
When area police are saying "Tear gas would've let us save that person", I'm not sure "chaos, not malice" is a safe assertion. There's been plenty of cases of malice being claimed as being just chaos until proven otherwise. At this point they need to figure out how to affirmatively disprove malice, before people trust that.
posted by CrystalDave at 3:30 PM on June 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by CrystalDave at 3:30 PM on June 23, 2020 [3 favorites]
So, this morning on one of my motorcycle groups I came across this "patriot group" that is planning to march on the CHOP and set up a "patriot base camp" on July 4th. I cannot possibly see this ending well. Goddamn a lot of real fucking assholes share my hobby.
Text from their FB event follows:
"On July 4th, Independence Day,a coalition of patriot groups and all who want to join are going to retake the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone for America. antifa members are illegally occupying public property and terrorizing small businesses in the neighborhood.
We will meet at centurylink field throughout the morning and then in the early afternoon march on the CHAZ.
You do not need a bike to join. Any and all patriots with all vehicles are coming to this event.
We are not coming to commit violence or break the law. Now that the city has authorized the placement of barricades in this autonomous zone, we will not try to remove them. Instead, we will establish a base of operations in CHAZ and permanently occupy the zone for American Patriots. We'll set up a patriot base camp and it will be staffed 24/7 by patriots both local and national.
Bring:
AMERICAN FLAGS
water bottles
graffiti remover
trash bags
patriot and maga gear
sand bags (for the base camp)"
https://www.facebook.com/events/740456910096468/permalink/748465399295619/
posted by mollymayhem at 3:30 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
Text from their FB event follows:
"On July 4th, Independence Day,a coalition of patriot groups and all who want to join are going to retake the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone for America. antifa members are illegally occupying public property and terrorizing small businesses in the neighborhood.
We will meet at centurylink field throughout the morning and then in the early afternoon march on the CHAZ.
You do not need a bike to join. Any and all patriots with all vehicles are coming to this event.
We are not coming to commit violence or break the law. Now that the city has authorized the placement of barricades in this autonomous zone, we will not try to remove them. Instead, we will establish a base of operations in CHAZ and permanently occupy the zone for American Patriots. We'll set up a patriot base camp and it will be staffed 24/7 by patriots both local and national.
Bring:
AMERICAN FLAGS
water bottles
graffiti remover
trash bags
patriot and maga gear
sand bags (for the base camp)"
https://www.facebook.com/events/740456910096468/permalink/748465399295619/
posted by mollymayhem at 3:30 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
i mean isn't the problem that the police walked away when nobody asked for it?
Yes. Exactly. All the protestors wanted was to protest along 12th. And the cops kept attempting to make this perimeter they couldn’t possibly hold. Then they shot that girl point blank with the supposedly banned tear gas cartridges and nearly killed her. I think after that they wanted to “change the narrative” and they fled a day or two after that hit the internet.
I was there when they packed up. There were no crowds or large protest presence yet. They just started packing up In the afternoon and that was that.
The idea they chased out is false. They just ran.
posted by herenow at 3:31 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
Yes. Exactly. All the protestors wanted was to protest along 12th. And the cops kept attempting to make this perimeter they couldn’t possibly hold. Then they shot that girl point blank with the supposedly banned tear gas cartridges and nearly killed her. I think after that they wanted to “change the narrative” and they fled a day or two after that hit the internet.
I was there when they packed up. There were no crowds or large protest presence yet. They just started packing up In the afternoon and that was that.
The idea they chased out is false. They just ran.
posted by herenow at 3:31 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
@mollymayhem CHOP won't live that long, I give it to end of the week to be cleared out. I'm seriously afraid that SPD is going to escalate the mess again and we'll back to police in military gear gassing us again.
posted by nikaspark at 3:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by nikaspark at 3:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
We will meet at centurylink field throughout the morning and then in the early afternoon march on the CHAZ.
If I needed more confirmation about this being an out-of-town operation, this statement would do it. I'm not sure what that march would *look* like.
Like, would they march up through Occidental Park & along the waterfront then cut over Pike & Pine?
Weave through the financial district & get distracted at Westlake Center while police conspicuously don't do any of the kettling they love Westlake for?
Go for maximum fuckery and run up Jackson so they can cause chaos in the ID before cutting north through First Hill?
(To say nothing of imagining them trying to do an organized ROLL OUT from Centurylink parking lot. I've seen boat shows choke on those intersections, and if Beyoncé's touring crew had to stage it over multiple days there's no way they're doing it in one morning/early-afternoon)
posted by CrystalDave at 3:46 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
If I needed more confirmation about this being an out-of-town operation, this statement would do it. I'm not sure what that march would *look* like.
Like, would they march up through Occidental Park & along the waterfront then cut over Pike & Pine?
Weave through the financial district & get distracted at Westlake Center while police conspicuously don't do any of the kettling they love Westlake for?
Go for maximum fuckery and run up Jackson so they can cause chaos in the ID before cutting north through First Hill?
(To say nothing of imagining them trying to do an organized ROLL OUT from Centurylink parking lot. I've seen boat shows choke on those intersections, and if Beyoncé's touring crew had to stage it over multiple days there's no way they're doing it in one morning/early-afternoon)
posted by CrystalDave at 3:46 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
We absolutely need some way to respond to the violence that comes from our country's horrific blend of bigotry, toxic masculinity, and guns. Unfortunately, that blend also describes our police departments and they've gone out of their way to show it.
So yeah, I want someone to deal with active shooters and rapists and other violent crime and we really don't have that right now. We only have an illusion of people who deal with it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
So yeah, I want someone to deal with active shooters and rapists and other violent crime and we really don't have that right now. We only have an illusion of people who deal with it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [9 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted. herenow, you're coming on really strong in here and need to step away from the conversation at this point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [1 favorite]
But an occupation is different. You need an organization. You need to have the people that live there as active willing participants and know who to talk to and what to expect. There is NONE OF THAT.
This is a very important truth.
CHOP is temporary, for many reasons. For one thing, an x-block area of a city simply seceding from society and engaging in self-governance is something that can happen short-term in terms of a protest, but not as any kind of long-term solution even if it is under competent and thorough management; and this, by design, is not.
The second reason is that it is one thing to say "nope, the police are not welcome here"; it is another to have no alternative in place when they are removed from authority. There will always be people who will take advantage of a lack of "there is a punishment if you are caught doing X" to do X. This includes both violence seemingly unrelated to the political context (if these shootings turn out to be person-on-person crime rather than stochastic terrorism) and violence that is (the hoedown that said 'patriot groups' above intend on bringing to the party, as well as whatever right-wing infiltrators already exist there).
This is not to suggest that the answer is "bring the existing cops back in and make them pinky swear that they'll be on good behavior." Ludicrous at best. I don't have an answer for what _should_ replace them and I don't plan to. But a power vacuum is swiftly filled by force, whether it is metaphorical or physical or legal.
posted by delfin at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
This is a very important truth.
CHOP is temporary, for many reasons. For one thing, an x-block area of a city simply seceding from society and engaging in self-governance is something that can happen short-term in terms of a protest, but not as any kind of long-term solution even if it is under competent and thorough management; and this, by design, is not.
The second reason is that it is one thing to say "nope, the police are not welcome here"; it is another to have no alternative in place when they are removed from authority. There will always be people who will take advantage of a lack of "there is a punishment if you are caught doing X" to do X. This includes both violence seemingly unrelated to the political context (if these shootings turn out to be person-on-person crime rather than stochastic terrorism) and violence that is (the hoedown that said 'patriot groups' above intend on bringing to the party, as well as whatever right-wing infiltrators already exist there).
This is not to suggest that the answer is "bring the existing cops back in and make them pinky swear that they'll be on good behavior." Ludicrous at best. I don't have an answer for what _should_ replace them and I don't plan to. But a power vacuum is swiftly filled by force, whether it is metaphorical or physical or legal.
posted by delfin at 3:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
But a power vacuum is swiftly filled by force, whether it is metaphorical or physical or legal.
All the cops had to do was step aside on June 1st, stop tear gassing the protesters and let them walk in peace.
CHOP/CHAZ whatever was a response to the total headfuck of the police just bailing
And once they left, who the fuck really wanted that gang back?
How about this: The cops come back to the precinct without weapons and they stop driving their cars at 50 miles per hour down 12th ave and stop acting like entitled fucking assholes to everyone that passes by them.
It's not that hard to get right. But our city leaders can't seem to understand that they are the actual fucking problem here.
posted by nikaspark at 3:59 PM on June 23, 2020 [14 favorites]
All the cops had to do was step aside on June 1st, stop tear gassing the protesters and let them walk in peace.
CHOP/CHAZ whatever was a response to the total headfuck of the police just bailing
And once they left, who the fuck really wanted that gang back?
How about this: The cops come back to the precinct without weapons and they stop driving their cars at 50 miles per hour down 12th ave and stop acting like entitled fucking assholes to everyone that passes by them.
It's not that hard to get right. But our city leaders can't seem to understand that they are the actual fucking problem here.
posted by nikaspark at 3:59 PM on June 23, 2020 [14 favorites]
> CHOP is temporary, for many reasons. For one thing, an x-block area of a city simply seceding from society and engaging in self-governance is something that can happen short-term in terms of a protest, but not as any kind of long-term solution even if it is under competent and thorough management
✫ 彡 𝓌𝑒𝓁𝓁 𝒶𝒸𝓉𝓊𝒶𝓁𝓁𝓎 ✫ 彡 anarchists in athens took and held a whole neighborhood for decades, effectively managing it while also effectively keeping the cops out. i’ll never forget the first thing my host said when i visited there: “as you can tell, this is a noisy neighborhood... but one noise you will never hear is sirens.” probably my memories of exarcheia are what makes me wish so much that i could visit the chop.
but yeah the political situation in the united states isn’t precisely the same as the political situation in greece and capitol hill isn’t exarcheia and the chop is/was too small to defend long-term.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 4:01 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
✫ 彡 𝓌𝑒𝓁𝓁 𝒶𝒸𝓉𝓊𝒶𝓁𝓁𝓎 ✫ 彡 anarchists in athens took and held a whole neighborhood for decades, effectively managing it while also effectively keeping the cops out. i’ll never forget the first thing my host said when i visited there: “as you can tell, this is a noisy neighborhood... but one noise you will never hear is sirens.” probably my memories of exarcheia are what makes me wish so much that i could visit the chop.
but yeah the political situation in the united states isn’t precisely the same as the political situation in greece and capitol hill isn’t exarcheia and the chop is/was too small to defend long-term.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 4:01 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
Mod note: Couple more deleted. herenow, "step away" wasn't ambiguous, and this isn't your first rodeo or the the first time this has been an issue on the site. I'm closing your account.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:27 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:27 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
Thank you all for helping make Metafilter feel more useful than Twitter today.
Can we do this more often together?
(very sincerely and schmoopily asking)
posted by nikaspark at 4:31 PM on June 23, 2020 [10 favorites]
Can we do this more often together?
(very sincerely and schmoopily asking)
posted by nikaspark at 4:31 PM on June 23, 2020 [10 favorites]
I am finding this thread far more helpful than twitter as well. Thanks for the post and your comments, nikaspark.
posted by Cogito at 4:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Cogito at 4:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [4 favorites]
So a few more things about my impressions with CHOP and how it does/doesn't map onto that article now that I'm at a computer:
1) One of the things taking place in this backdrop is the problem of houselessness in Seattle. This is both a real problem, in that a significant number of people are unhoused at any given time, and also a white-upper-class-property-values not-really-a-real concern, in that there are two different types of people who note this thing going on and they have very different solutions to it. The people who care about the welfare of the unhoused generally recommend more support services for them to better live their lives. The people who care about their property values generally care about not having the homeless visibly near their property.
Why this is relevant to CHOP is the same reason it was relevant to Occupy: anytime you have a place providing more services than the /incredibly shitty shelters/, you're going to have a lot of houseless people hanging out there, because it's just a better way for them to live. At the CHOP, there were licensed mental health counselors providing free mental health services, free clothing, free medicine, personal hygiene stuff, food, books, etc. People at the CHOP would also run supplies to the houseless encampment nearby at the end of the day.
This is also relevant because Capitol Hill is both a very white and a very high property value area, and in many ways the opinions of its residents on the CHOP have been shifting depending on whether they thought of CHOP as 'cool street party which also opposes racism' or 'place which is uncontrollable and where I won't be protected'. A place where the houseless are respected is not a place that people concerned about their property values are going to be happy.
And I think it's worth noting that there's a lot of performative allyship - people who were into the protests and the CHOP a lot until they learned it might affect their property values and that the idyllic neighborhood that they've used police to enforce no longer will exist. And now their allyship is revealed as hollow. They were allies until it inconvenienced them and now they're done.
2) I am told by various in-Seattle sources that Durkan has promised significant funding to organizations that were willing to join with her on her vision of what this looks like going forward, which in this article is calling "engaging with black-led community organizations, hoping that they will encourage people to leave the CHOP voluntarily". Word on the street is that there was absolutely quid pro quo, and also that she didn't invite any younger organizations.
posted by corb at 7:08 PM on June 23, 2020 [18 favorites]
1) One of the things taking place in this backdrop is the problem of houselessness in Seattle. This is both a real problem, in that a significant number of people are unhoused at any given time, and also a white-upper-class-property-values not-really-a-real concern, in that there are two different types of people who note this thing going on and they have very different solutions to it. The people who care about the welfare of the unhoused generally recommend more support services for them to better live their lives. The people who care about their property values generally care about not having the homeless visibly near their property.
Why this is relevant to CHOP is the same reason it was relevant to Occupy: anytime you have a place providing more services than the /incredibly shitty shelters/, you're going to have a lot of houseless people hanging out there, because it's just a better way for them to live. At the CHOP, there were licensed mental health counselors providing free mental health services, free clothing, free medicine, personal hygiene stuff, food, books, etc. People at the CHOP would also run supplies to the houseless encampment nearby at the end of the day.
This is also relevant because Capitol Hill is both a very white and a very high property value area, and in many ways the opinions of its residents on the CHOP have been shifting depending on whether they thought of CHOP as 'cool street party which also opposes racism' or 'place which is uncontrollable and where I won't be protected'. A place where the houseless are respected is not a place that people concerned about their property values are going to be happy.
And I think it's worth noting that there's a lot of performative allyship - people who were into the protests and the CHOP a lot until they learned it might affect their property values and that the idyllic neighborhood that they've used police to enforce no longer will exist. And now their allyship is revealed as hollow. They were allies until it inconvenienced them and now they're done.
2) I am told by various in-Seattle sources that Durkan has promised significant funding to organizations that were willing to join with her on her vision of what this looks like going forward, which in this article is calling "engaging with black-led community organizations, hoping that they will encourage people to leave the CHOP voluntarily". Word on the street is that there was absolutely quid pro quo, and also that she didn't invite any younger organizations.
posted by corb at 7:08 PM on June 23, 2020 [18 favorites]
What should we call the corporate-techbro equivalent of pearl-clutching?
I cannot speak to the context in which it was applied, but possibly the term you're looking for would be "perl-clutching".
I'll, uh, show myself out....
posted by eviemath at 7:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
I cannot speak to the context in which it was applied, but possibly the term you're looking for would be "perl-clutching".
I'll, uh, show myself out....
posted by eviemath at 7:47 PM on June 23, 2020 [11 favorites]
As someone who participated in the auto-zone, here is some input:
posted by moink at 8:29 PM on June 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
The organization that people liked initially? That was anarchists who all worked together and who are staying away now because of the liberalization of the scene.This seems correct from my experience. A lot of these people, including myself, left after growing exhausted from dealing with "peace police" that were willing to fight to death over spray painting the wrong surface, or... (horror of horrors) actually create an occupation of the building.
herenow: (paraphrasing) protestors not letting the police in lead to a deathThis isn't a view that is supported either be people present, nor even by some mainstream reporting. The medical first responders would not go in without the police, and the police took their time getting a "strike team" ready. Of all the shootings that have taken place (4 now?), usually the victim is in care of medics and already being transported to the hospital before official first responders arrived, so there's that.
herenow: What they are quickly losing support for is CHOP. Nobody up here wanted it.The abandonment of the precinct was both surprising and exciting. An unlikely opportunity! What was obvious to me was that occupying the building—turning it towards better ends—was the only thing that would make staying in the area make sense. (Sometimes) violent intervention by "peace police" prevented that from happening, then another plan to occupy was aborted based on disapproval of "elders" who may exist, but it was never clear who they were. In case anyone wants to complain about white radicals hijacking things... first of all, no. But also, these plans were laid and attempted by people of color, so get over yourself. :)
Why this is relevant to CHOP is the same reason it was relevant to Occupy: anytime you have a place providing more services than the /incredibly shitty shelters/, you're going to have a lot of houseless people hanging out there, because it's just a better way for them to live. At the CHOP, there were licensed mental health counselors providing free mental health services, free clothing, free medicine, personal hygiene stuff, food, books, etc. People at the CHOP would also run supplies to the houseless encampment nearby at the end of the day.This is a critical point that didn't come to me until corb wrote it above. My friend works in homeless services, and described how everyone was leaving shelters to go here because there were better services, and it still didn't click for me until now. Interesting.
posted by moink at 8:29 PM on June 23, 2020 [8 favorites]
A place where the houseless are respected is not a place that people concerned about their property values are going to be happy
There are almost twice as many renters as homeowners in Capitol Hill, while I do think the homeowner bias towards wanting to preserve home prices leads to a lot of fucked up political views, the development on the Hill over the past 10 years that I'm seeing is that homes are getting torn down for expensive apartments that have absolutely no path for providing shelter for the most marginal in the city. This is a problem with city leadership being beholden to property taxes and in the can with property developers to increase the property tax base as much as possible. If anything the developers are a larger contributor overall to the systemic pressures that are driving out Black people and POC folks than the individual homeowners, and short of Kshama Sawant getting rent control in place and having some kind of taxation model in the city where Jeff Bezos pays his share, we will continue to see the developers gentrify the area even more. That said, we need density. We don't need 2 thousand examples of arts and crafts architecture on the hill, for as pretty as the area around Volunteer Park is. We can settle on the best examples and dismantle the rest for affordable, dense living. But that word...affordable...Again city leadership is absolutely failing Capitol Hill. From what I see living in this every day and having community on the hill with the artists and creators who still manage to live up here, we're in solidarity with the homeless.
Now, to talk about the camps. The homeless folks are not the problem. What's a problem is setting off fireworks night after night for hours and hours on end. That's...just a fucking problem, a majority of the folks who live around Cal Anderson aren't the super wealthy white people that we like to characterize the area as. Those folks are several blocks away. In the area right around Cal Anderson, rents aren't necessarily all sky high. You can rent a studio for 900 bucks at Howell and Bellevue. That's pretty much doable when the minimum wage for service workers is 13.25 an hour plus tips, but we all know that isn't nearly enough to thrive on. People need more. And the city is failing us.
So please, don't flatten what's happening demographically on the Hill. It still has a lot of different people from a lot of walks of life living there and from my experience most of us are in solidarity with the struggle, and a hell of a lot of us are in that struggle.
What I wonder though, is that a lot of people who are coming to CHOP are the same people who used to come to Pike and Pine on friday night to party. It's a party zone. It's a festival zone. It's a get fucked up on meth and harass the trans woman skating at the DIY skatepark zone. Homeless people addicted to heroin on the streets up here is a medical problem, not a moral one. Pretty much everyone I know on this Hill realizes this and we support harm reduction. And pretty much everyone I know who isn't part of the GSBA white gay business owner with dreads crew is more focused on the systemic problems than how it looks when you walk around.
If you want proof of that, look at the last election results. Kshama Sawant, an actual socialist, was overwhelmingly re-elected over the white gay man, Egan Orion, who wanted to pursue a neoliberal economic policy that would have further exacerbated the problems with homeless people on the hill. He lost. By a lot. Because the people who live on Capitol Hill aren't playing with neoliberalism anymore.
So, how do we best address the systemic racism in a meaningful way when we have a white gay mayor who is full of nothing but empty promises? She's full of shit. She's not getting it done. She needs to go. So does Carmen Best. The city leadership is failing the city and we need to actively work to elect people who are vocal enough to get the right work done over giving us empty platitudes year after year. Kshama is not beyond critique, as I commented earlier. There are no heroes to this situation, what there is however, is a very deep wound in Seattle that started with white drunkards building the city through a series of manufactured ecological disasters that has continued a policy of white manifest destiny ever since. We need leaders who can boldly address this...flat out horror of the city's history and commit actual plans to reconcile this beyond a few bullet point items with no real plan to actually get it done.
And meanwhile, we're just gonna have the cops back on Capitol Hill again being assholes.
posted by nikaspark at 8:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [16 favorites]
There are almost twice as many renters as homeowners in Capitol Hill, while I do think the homeowner bias towards wanting to preserve home prices leads to a lot of fucked up political views, the development on the Hill over the past 10 years that I'm seeing is that homes are getting torn down for expensive apartments that have absolutely no path for providing shelter for the most marginal in the city. This is a problem with city leadership being beholden to property taxes and in the can with property developers to increase the property tax base as much as possible. If anything the developers are a larger contributor overall to the systemic pressures that are driving out Black people and POC folks than the individual homeowners, and short of Kshama Sawant getting rent control in place and having some kind of taxation model in the city where Jeff Bezos pays his share, we will continue to see the developers gentrify the area even more. That said, we need density. We don't need 2 thousand examples of arts and crafts architecture on the hill, for as pretty as the area around Volunteer Park is. We can settle on the best examples and dismantle the rest for affordable, dense living. But that word...affordable...Again city leadership is absolutely failing Capitol Hill. From what I see living in this every day and having community on the hill with the artists and creators who still manage to live up here, we're in solidarity with the homeless.
Now, to talk about the camps. The homeless folks are not the problem. What's a problem is setting off fireworks night after night for hours and hours on end. That's...just a fucking problem, a majority of the folks who live around Cal Anderson aren't the super wealthy white people that we like to characterize the area as. Those folks are several blocks away. In the area right around Cal Anderson, rents aren't necessarily all sky high. You can rent a studio for 900 bucks at Howell and Bellevue. That's pretty much doable when the minimum wage for service workers is 13.25 an hour plus tips, but we all know that isn't nearly enough to thrive on. People need more. And the city is failing us.
So please, don't flatten what's happening demographically on the Hill. It still has a lot of different people from a lot of walks of life living there and from my experience most of us are in solidarity with the struggle, and a hell of a lot of us are in that struggle.
What I wonder though, is that a lot of people who are coming to CHOP are the same people who used to come to Pike and Pine on friday night to party. It's a party zone. It's a festival zone. It's a get fucked up on meth and harass the trans woman skating at the DIY skatepark zone. Homeless people addicted to heroin on the streets up here is a medical problem, not a moral one. Pretty much everyone I know on this Hill realizes this and we support harm reduction. And pretty much everyone I know who isn't part of the GSBA white gay business owner with dreads crew is more focused on the systemic problems than how it looks when you walk around.
If you want proof of that, look at the last election results. Kshama Sawant, an actual socialist, was overwhelmingly re-elected over the white gay man, Egan Orion, who wanted to pursue a neoliberal economic policy that would have further exacerbated the problems with homeless people on the hill. He lost. By a lot. Because the people who live on Capitol Hill aren't playing with neoliberalism anymore.
So, how do we best address the systemic racism in a meaningful way when we have a white gay mayor who is full of nothing but empty promises? She's full of shit. She's not getting it done. She needs to go. So does Carmen Best. The city leadership is failing the city and we need to actively work to elect people who are vocal enough to get the right work done over giving us empty platitudes year after year. Kshama is not beyond critique, as I commented earlier. There are no heroes to this situation, what there is however, is a very deep wound in Seattle that started with white drunkards building the city through a series of manufactured ecological disasters that has continued a policy of white manifest destiny ever since. We need leaders who can boldly address this...flat out horror of the city's history and commit actual plans to reconcile this beyond a few bullet point items with no real plan to actually get it done.
And meanwhile, we're just gonna have the cops back on Capitol Hill again being assholes.
posted by nikaspark at 8:37 PM on June 23, 2020 [16 favorites]
For anyone reading the original article and having like me a feeling that there is something somehow wrong with it, but not being able to really place it, the reason is that it was written by a person* who has today become to be known as an e n l i g h t e n e d c e n t r i s t.
Now the psychology of an enlightenedcentrist is complex, and therefore it is probably best to see them in action. But you have all met them, to some extent at least: they are the ones self-assuredly rational and reasonable, which in practice means droning on about "both sides being equal"; they are the ones for whom all practical issues are for theoretical musing; they are the ones who think they have a balanced, even-handed, rational and reasonable opinion about every issue, but when push comes to shove, they all happen to become rightwing reactionaries.
You know the type.
*white male
posted by Pyrogenesis at 8:46 PM on June 23, 2020 [19 favorites]
Now the psychology of an enlightenedcentrist is complex, and therefore it is probably best to see them in action. But you have all met them, to some extent at least: they are the ones self-assuredly rational and reasonable, which in practice means droning on about "both sides being equal"; they are the ones for whom all practical issues are for theoretical musing; they are the ones who think they have a balanced, even-handed, rational and reasonable opinion about every issue, but when push comes to shove, they all happen to become rightwing reactionaries.
You know the type.
*white male
posted by Pyrogenesis at 8:46 PM on June 23, 2020 [19 favorites]
but when push comes to shove, they all happen to become rightwing reactionaries
I wish I could like this ten thousand times.
posted by nikaspark at 8:49 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I wish I could like this ten thousand times.
posted by nikaspark at 8:49 PM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]
I'm outside the edit window but in my last comment I wish I had typed this:
The problems homeless people face living on the hill
instead of this:
problems with homeless people on the hill
That reads really terribly. Apologies.
posted by nikaspark at 9:09 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
The problems homeless people face living on the hill
instead of this:
problems with homeless people on the hill
That reads really terribly. Apologies.
posted by nikaspark at 9:09 PM on June 23, 2020 [5 favorites]
the people who live on Capitol Hill aren't playing with neoliberalism anymore.
Yeah, I do apologize for flattening - when I say the people who live on Capitol Hill there's definitely some real differences and it's for sure an area in tension. I know a lot of really radical, awesome people who live there and those people are 100% down with the struggle - I was trying to explain where the hell the "The Residents Want This To End" viewpoint that was being pushed by an individual previously was coming from, and didn't explain out that those people are by no means the majority, they're just the ones who live in the fanciest apartments or holy fuck insanely expensive houses.
But yeah - moink is very right about the respectability politics stuff going on. One of the most vivid recent things that happened that just kind of made me sigh and throw up my hands was: this Trump supporter in a MAGA hat came through that space waving an American flag, and it was a constant farce of 'young person of color takes the hat/the flag' -----> 'protest respectability enforcers' go after that person, reclaim the hat/flag and give it back to the guy -----> this cycle repeats itself, while people argue about free speech, until finally one of the protest enforcers offered the Trump stan 50$ to sell the flag to him so that it wouldn't be visible.
There's kind of this really frustrating thing where people are trying to tame the space, but the reason things are happening and changing at all wasn't cool, calm, collected protests. So it's kind of disheartening. It's like a much, much faster version of Occupy.
posted by corb at 9:28 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I do apologize for flattening - when I say the people who live on Capitol Hill there's definitely some real differences and it's for sure an area in tension. I know a lot of really radical, awesome people who live there and those people are 100% down with the struggle - I was trying to explain where the hell the "The Residents Want This To End" viewpoint that was being pushed by an individual previously was coming from, and didn't explain out that those people are by no means the majority, they're just the ones who live in the fanciest apartments or holy fuck insanely expensive houses.
But yeah - moink is very right about the respectability politics stuff going on. One of the most vivid recent things that happened that just kind of made me sigh and throw up my hands was: this Trump supporter in a MAGA hat came through that space waving an American flag, and it was a constant farce of 'young person of color takes the hat/the flag' -----> 'protest respectability enforcers' go after that person, reclaim the hat/flag and give it back to the guy -----> this cycle repeats itself, while people argue about free speech, until finally one of the protest enforcers offered the Trump stan 50$ to sell the flag to him so that it wouldn't be visible.
There's kind of this really frustrating thing where people are trying to tame the space, but the reason things are happening and changing at all wasn't cool, calm, collected protests. So it's kind of disheartening. It's like a much, much faster version of Occupy.
posted by corb at 9:28 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
Totally Corb, I call those folks "the nextdoor crowd" and there are certainly more of them than I wish in the district.
posted by nikaspark at 10:25 PM on June 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by nikaspark at 10:25 PM on June 23, 2020 [2 favorites]
Kevin Schofield does really great basic journalism, but he's definitely a centrist within the Seattle context, with a particular thing for going after Sawant. If you're interested in very detailed reporting on the actions of Seattle City Council, he's a good person to follow, either his blog or his twitter. While his ideological commitments aren't hidden, most of what he writes is more straightforward reporting. Editorial/opinion articles like this one are a regular but less common part of his work. I'm not much of a fan of his opinion pieces.
Another indie Seattle journalist relevant to this discussion is Erica C. Barnett. Her article published today:
Bellicose Seattle Police Chief Claims Police Access to Tear Gas Could Have Saved CHOP Shooting Victim’s Life
Another indie Seattle journalist relevant to this discussion is Erica C. Barnett. Her article published today:
Bellicose Seattle Police Chief Claims Police Access to Tear Gas Could Have Saved CHOP Shooting Victim’s Life
The police department has presented no specific evidence to indicate that anyone at the protest was violent against police officers. In fact, both bodycam video released by SPD and the police department’s official timeline of events contradict this claim. According to the timeline, officers showed up at to a staging area on 12th and Cherry, about seven blocks from the shooting, around 2:30 in the morning and entered the area around six minutes later, when they were informed that medics had already taken the victim away. The bodycam footage shows protesters stepping aside for police while screaming that the victim has already been taken to the hospital. I don’t know what else was happening outside the frame, or how much is left out of the timeline. But what the police and mayor have offered so far are assertions, not evidence.posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:26 PM on June 23, 2020 [6 favorites]
a majority of the folks who live around Cal Anderson aren't the super wealthy white people that we like to characterize the area as. Those folks are several blocks away. In the area right around Cal Anderson, rents aren't necessarily all sky high. You can rent a studio for 900 bucks at Howell and Bellevue.
I used to live on that exact corner and it's not right around Cal Anderson at all, it's a ten minute walk away - more than just several blocks. The streets literally surrounding the park are a mix of million dollar old homes and brand new townhouses to one side, and shiny expensive new apartments on the other. There may be one or two remaining apartments for less than $2k, but I don't know where.
And of course people still support BLM. "But", the sentence continues, "I just don't know what they're trying to achieve. What are their goals? If they won't even show up to a meeting with Durkan to talk about CHOP, then how is the city supposed to work with them? If they can't run CHOP without police then maybe they haven't thought about things enough. Ooh a calm old black man speaking with Durkan and saying things should go back to normal. Yes! Black Lives Matter! $20 million cut from the police budget, we won! Can we like, get the police to kick all the homeless people out of the park?".
I look forward to seeing what happens in the morning.
posted by bashing rocks together at 12:20 AM on June 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
I used to live on that exact corner and it's not right around Cal Anderson at all, it's a ten minute walk away - more than just several blocks. The streets literally surrounding the park are a mix of million dollar old homes and brand new townhouses to one side, and shiny expensive new apartments on the other. There may be one or two remaining apartments for less than $2k, but I don't know where.
And of course people still support BLM. "But", the sentence continues, "I just don't know what they're trying to achieve. What are their goals? If they won't even show up to a meeting with Durkan to talk about CHOP, then how is the city supposed to work with them? If they can't run CHOP without police then maybe they haven't thought about things enough. Ooh a calm old black man speaking with Durkan and saying things should go back to normal. Yes! Black Lives Matter! $20 million cut from the police budget, we won! Can we like, get the police to kick all the homeless people out of the park?".
I look forward to seeing what happens in the morning.
posted by bashing rocks together at 12:20 AM on June 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
I think they made the right decision to not show up.
Andre Taylor’s message at the press conference to CHOP was condescending.
Also I just saw the tweet from “chop official” about the 20 million dollars. I’m...beside myself.
posted by nikaspark at 6:12 AM on June 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Andre Taylor’s message at the press conference to CHOP was condescending.
Also I just saw the tweet from “chop official” about the 20 million dollars. I’m...beside myself.
posted by nikaspark at 6:12 AM on June 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
I live at 12th and Howell and have a 1 bedroom for 1325 a month, there are two other buildings along side my building that are similarly priced, and many many other apartments between Denny and John as well.
posted by nikaspark at 6:20 AM on June 24, 2020
posted by nikaspark at 6:20 AM on June 24, 2020
It was just pointed out to me over at AskMefi that what I wanted to say has already been put into song form.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 9:06 AM on June 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Pyrogenesis at 9:06 AM on June 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
ok, I was mostly responding to this
the super wealthy white people that we like to characterize the area as [] are several blocks away.
This is not true. To illustrate that, I talked about the streets that border the park. There are cheaper apartments nearby, for various definitions of nearby/"right around Cal Anderson", yes.
posted by bashing rocks together at 10:21 AM on June 24, 2020
the super wealthy white people that we like to characterize the area as [] are several blocks away.
This is not true. To illustrate that, I talked about the streets that border the park. There are cheaper apartments nearby, for various definitions of nearby/"right around Cal Anderson", yes.
posted by bashing rocks together at 10:21 AM on June 24, 2020
What are we here for? CHOP’s legacy, from barricades to changes to conversation (Seattle Times, paywall)
Durkan proposes $20 million in cuts to Seattle police as part of proposal to balance budget (Seattle Times, paywall)
Black Lives Matter Seattle-King County Launches Black-Led Community Investment Fund, Endorses King County Equity Now Coalition Demands (South Seattle Emerald)
Durkan proposes $20 million in cuts to Seattle police as part of proposal to balance budget (Seattle Times, paywall)
The mayor proposes slashing about 5% of the Seattle police budget this year and a hiring freeze on new officers next year until a new plan is developed “reflecting community priorities for public safety.” ....
In a “letter to the community” Tuesday, Seattle police Chief Carmen Best wrote that the department is reviewing which of its “responsibilities can acceptably be passed to other agencies, or completely turned over to the community.”
Black Lives Matter Seattle-King County Launches Black-Led Community Investment Fund, Endorses King County Equity Now Coalition Demands (South Seattle Emerald)
Black Lives Matter Seattle-King County (BLMSKC) today announced the launch of the Black-Led Community Investment Fund with nearly a quarter-million dollars in grants to seven organizations. Additionally, it endorsed a slate of demands made by the King County Equity Now Coalition for re-purposing underused public lands.The Tea on Our Juneteenth Black Out and the Necessity of Black Healing Spaces (South Seattle Emerald)
On Monday, June 15, 2020, Mary Williams posted an Open Letter to the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest (CHOP) on Facebook. In it she expressed her longing to take what started out as a powerful protest in services of defunding SPD and protecting Black lives — and has since devolved into a tent city encampment co-located with a quasi-political street fair — and make it a space of healing for Black folks.posted by Margalo Epps at 10:54 AM on June 24, 2020
Yeah the new buildings are expensive as fuck and that’s a result of city leadership in the tank with developers.
posted by nikaspark at 10:54 AM on June 24, 2020
posted by nikaspark at 10:54 AM on June 24, 2020
reflecting community priorities for public safety.” ....
Over a year ago I was told to my face by Mayor Durkan that she was already working on that same exact plan plan using those same exact words and that would see those changes during pride 2019. Instead we got gassed during pride month 2020.
I have no trust in her ability to deliver on that at all.
posted by nikaspark at 10:58 AM on June 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Over a year ago I was told to my face by Mayor Durkan that she was already working on that same exact plan plan using those same exact words and that would see those changes during pride 2019. Instead we got gassed during pride month 2020.
I have no trust in her ability to deliver on that at all.
posted by nikaspark at 10:58 AM on June 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Another new fund that looks promising is the Black Future Co-op Fund being run through the Seattle Foundation. Especially this bit:
The Fund will also invest in technical assistance, “back-of-house” support, and administrative support to the underresourced nonprofit and community-based organizations that have worked for decades in support of the Black community, providing the infrastructure they need to sustain their critical efforts.
posted by bashing rocks together at 11:00 AM on June 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Fund will also invest in technical assistance, “back-of-house” support, and administrative support to the underresourced nonprofit and community-based organizations that have worked for decades in support of the Black community, providing the infrastructure they need to sustain their critical efforts.
posted by bashing rocks together at 11:00 AM on June 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'd just like to say, as someone who has never been to Seattle but is interested in what's happening there, that I appreciate this kind of longer-form piece from a person who is obviously closely following the situation and has background knowledge of what the political situation is, and I also appreciate Seattle Mefites chiming in to point out biases in the original piece and give their own takes. It's been a little frustrating to try to find good sources of information as an outsider; everything feels like some NYT reporter parachuted in, did one interview, and filed a story, or else it's people screaming at each other on twitter.
posted by whir at 11:08 AM on June 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by whir at 11:08 AM on June 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
For reliable and ongoing local coverage check CHS, a long-time neighborhood blog run by a guy who might actually be working 27/7 right now.
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:24 PM on June 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by bashing rocks together at 3:24 PM on June 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
If anyone wants the read receipts between my Twitter interaction (I am @damekraft) with the editor of Capitol Hill Seattle blog (@jseattle) and SCC insights responding, which lead to this FPP about the specific angle of coverage that CHS admitting was missing from their reporting, here ya go:
“I only got a few of her lines in. There were more. @carmenbest is on offense. Haven't had time to read other coverage but I'm hoping somebody centered on her elements“
posted by nikaspark at 5:22 AM on June 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
“I only got a few of her lines in. There were more. @carmenbest is on offense. Haven't had time to read other coverage but I'm hoping somebody centered on her elements“
posted by nikaspark at 5:22 AM on June 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
As a heads up - the city is coming in now.
posted by corb at 6:17 AM on June 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by corb at 6:17 AM on June 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
Heads up, that live feed features the videographer complaining that the police response seems "weak" and they need to "take the barricades out."
The comments are... well, even for YouTube they're jaw-dropping. Not sure what Gab server all the commenters crawled out of, but yikes.
posted by sugar and confetti at 7:22 AM on June 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
The comments are... well, even for YouTube they're jaw-dropping. Not sure what Gab server all the commenters crawled out of, but yikes.
posted by sugar and confetti at 7:22 AM on June 26, 2020 [2 favorites]
Trying to crawl through all the assholes now to get to a feed that’s not being run by a jerk...
posted by nikaspark at 7:34 AM on June 26, 2020
posted by nikaspark at 7:34 AM on June 26, 2020
They’re retreating for now so don’t worry about it nikaspark but are supposedly going to “re-evaluate” and be back.
posted by corb at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 7:36 AM on June 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
I found this, it’s a Facebook feed from Omari Salisbury, I recommend following him on twitter and to continue referencing him as a first stop for further information and live feeds.
Here’s his website/link site.
posted by nikaspark at 7:43 AM on June 26, 2020 [5 favorites]
Here’s his website/link site.
posted by nikaspark at 7:43 AM on June 26, 2020 [5 favorites]
Thanks nikaspark. And in case it wasn't clear I'm not faulting you at all for linking to that other one, I know how hard it can be to find a good live resource!
posted by sugar and confetti at 8:54 AM on June 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by sugar and confetti at 8:54 AM on June 26, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yeah! I didn’t take it that way :-) everything has become so much posturing with this...
posted by nikaspark at 9:25 AM on June 26, 2020
posted by nikaspark at 9:25 AM on June 26, 2020
Her words, stated repeatedly at the the presser were "give us our less lethal methods back otherwise all we have are batons and handguns"
Milwaukee police have been sealioning similar concerns about batons and handguns as well. There must be a newsletter or something.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:36 PM on June 26, 2020
Milwaukee police have been sealioning similar concerns about batons and handguns as well. There must be a newsletter or something.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 5:36 PM on June 26, 2020
Now that the the CHOP has been cleared:
From CHS:
From the Urbanist:
posted by vibratory manner of working at 6:19 PM on July 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
From CHS:
The scale for now is much smaller. A crowd of dozens of protesters that began to form at Broadway and Pine’s rainbow crosswalk from the first moments after Wednesday’s early morning raid clashed with police as the overnight brought another dispersal order and then pepper spray and arrests. SPD reports another 25 people were arrested “for failure to disperse, assault, and obstructing.”
From the Urbanist:
It is surreal watching the Mayor’s police department clearing the CHOP at the same time as the Seattle City Council’s Budget Committee listens to public testimony focused on defunding the police and passing a payroll expense tax to fund social services and affordable housing. Budget Chair Mosqueda has said a vote on JumpStart Seattle is possible today if consensus is reached–they do have a great deal of amendments to consider.And from SCC Insight, a detailed accounting of the Seattle Police Budget: where it goes, how it's changed over time, and how it might be cut.
Perhaps the Durkan administration thought the crackdown on protesters would go unnoticed on such a busy news day. Or maybe they wanted to present a different narrative of action as council takes action on progressive revenue, affordable housing, and Covid relief. Granted sweeping a protest is akin to sweeping homeless encampments; it relocates the problem without addressing root causes, dispensing humiliation and violence in the process. However, it at least appears to be doing something. Plus, it rallies her base, which it’s becoming increasingly clear isn’t progressive as her actions become more baldly pro-business, pro-cop, and conservative.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 6:19 PM on July 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
I was arrested, jailed and assaulted by a guard. My ‘crime’? Being a journalist in Trump’s America.
The fear of being infected [with Covid19 ] is not paranoia. Eric Reinhart, a social anthropologist who teaches at Harvard, has studied how the constant arresting and processing of people for minor charges has acted to further spread the disease.
There’s no other country that believes it’s necessary to arrest and incarcerate as many people as the US does. And it’s clear this does not produce more effective deterrence,” he said. He estimated the high arrest rate had added tens of thousands of Covid deaths to the total of more than 130,000.
posted by adamvasco at 3:18 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
The fear of being infected [with Covid19 ] is not paranoia. Eric Reinhart, a social anthropologist who teaches at Harvard, has studied how the constant arresting and processing of people for minor charges has acted to further spread the disease.
There’s no other country that believes it’s necessary to arrest and incarcerate as many people as the US does. And it’s clear this does not produce more effective deterrence,” he said. He estimated the high arrest rate had added tens of thousands of Covid deaths to the total of more than 130,000.
posted by adamvasco at 3:18 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
« Older Roc Emerson Was Right and Carl Winslow Was Wrong | A Class Divided Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by ardgedee at 11:51 AM on June 23, 2020 [7 favorites]