School's. Out. Forever.
September 8, 2020 8:12 AM Subscribe
The End of the University: The pandemic should force America to remake higher education.
The coronavirus pandemic may well usher in a period of catastrophic destruction, but difficult revelations can also be a spur to insight and action. Though increasingly stratified, segregated, and costly access to higher education is not the only possible future we are racing toward, it is the default—the destination that aligns with our past and present trajectories. In order to forge another path, we must engage in a deeper form of accounting. Beyond finding a way to balance university budgets in the midst of global depression, the challenge is to acknowledge and repair past mistakes and ongoing inequities, thereby making our higher education system, for the first time in our troubled history, truly public. If our goal is to shift course and avert the disaster on the horizon, the boulder’s final message—“Black Lives Matter”—points us in the right direction. “If Black women were free, it would mean that everyone else would have to be free since our freedom would necessitate the destruction of all the systems of oppression,” the Combahee River Collective, an influential group of Black feminists, wrote in 1977. Their wisdom still holds. If we could create a world where Black students were free to learn at free universities, we would have created a world where everyone else was finally able to do so as well.
So this isn't about the end of the university, but is rather about the end of the private university.
It is also about the end of the public university, which in the majority of cases, is basically public in name only.
posted by Ouverture at 8:21 AM on September 8, 2020 [16 favorites]
It is also about the end of the public university, which in the majority of cases, is basically public in name only.
posted by Ouverture at 8:21 AM on September 8, 2020 [16 favorites]
So this isn't about the end of the university, but is rather about the end of the private university.
How do you read that? One of the major conclusions seemed to be that the “elite” private institutions would weather the crisis just fine while small private colleges and state-supported schools would suffer and close.
posted by mr_roboto at 8:35 AM on September 8, 2020 [11 favorites]
How do you read that? One of the major conclusions seemed to be that the “elite” private institutions would weather the crisis just fine while small private colleges and state-supported schools would suffer and close.
posted by mr_roboto at 8:35 AM on September 8, 2020 [11 favorites]
Is America really in a position to be remaking anything right now though
It's far more likely to be Europe or China that will be making forward-thinking transformations in how higher learning works, given both regions largely have their shit together, but because they also have their shit together they don't need to make such a radical transformation. America, given recent history, is far more likely to fuck it up and make something worse but more profitable, or slowly have it break.
posted by Merus at 8:36 AM on September 8, 2020 [20 favorites]
It's far more likely to be Europe or China that will be making forward-thinking transformations in how higher learning works, given both regions largely have their shit together, but because they also have their shit together they don't need to make such a radical transformation. America, given recent history, is far more likely to fuck it up and make something worse but more profitable, or slowly have it break.
posted by Merus at 8:36 AM on September 8, 2020 [20 favorites]
And:
How to Save Higher Education: A New Deal for America’s sinking colleges
"The plan would change how the federal government supports colleges and universities, staving off immediate disaster, boosting resources for historically underfunded schools, and fundamentally realigning the financial incentives that drive many colleges to put money and status ahead of students. At the same time, the plan would usher in a new era of intercollegiate cooperation, transforming an archipelago of endangered, isolated institutions into a network of technology-enabled learning communities."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:42 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
How to Save Higher Education: A New Deal for America’s sinking colleges
"The plan would change how the federal government supports colleges and universities, staving off immediate disaster, boosting resources for historically underfunded schools, and fundamentally realigning the financial incentives that drive many colleges to put money and status ahead of students. At the same time, the plan would usher in a new era of intercollegiate cooperation, transforming an archipelago of endangered, isolated institutions into a network of technology-enabled learning communities."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:42 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
It occurs to me that this may be a good time for universities to decouple themselves from their amateur-in-name-only sports programs. It's kind of hard to justify teams come to campus when most of the rest of the student body are doing remote learning.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:42 AM on September 8, 2020 [19 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 8:42 AM on September 8, 2020 [19 favorites]
Closures of smaller private/state colleges will be devastating in many rural areas especially where they are the primary employer for a whole county or region. Ohio University, located in BFE southeastern Ohio, would be an example if it ever closed. These places employ thousands, including janitors and secretaries; most university employees work in jobs that don't require university degrees.
posted by greatalleycat at 8:56 AM on September 8, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by greatalleycat at 8:56 AM on September 8, 2020 [17 favorites]
There are a lot of changes America should make as a response to the pandemic that aren't going to happen. Like UBI and universal health care.
posted by Foosnark at 8:58 AM on September 8, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 8:58 AM on September 8, 2020 [14 favorites]
It's far more likely to be Europe or China that will be making forward-thinking transformations in how higher learning works, given both regions largely have their shit together, but because they also have their shit together they don't need to make such a radical transformation.
I can't see it being Europe. Universities are seen as a virtual guarantor of local and regional economic stimulation by the EU. I work at a campus that was largely paid for by EU funds. Universities are the beneficiaries of vast amounts of support for research but also some infrastructure costs.
posted by biffa at 8:58 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
I can't see it being Europe. Universities are seen as a virtual guarantor of local and regional economic stimulation by the EU. I work at a campus that was largely paid for by EU funds. Universities are the beneficiaries of vast amounts of support for research but also some infrastructure costs.
posted by biffa at 8:58 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Northeaster University was formerly a working-class school that was the ideal: the "great equalizer" in education. My father would not have had a successful career without it. A few years back, they cut their enrollment size in half and jacked up the tuition, now around $30,000.
They just kicked out 11 students for violating their covid policy and is refusing to refund the tuition.
There are a lot of changes America should make as a response to the pandemic that aren't going to happen. Like UBI and universal health care.
Yeah, and gun control. The revolution is going to happen. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but at some point the "tipping point" will occur and a large number of 99%ers will say "fuck this shit." One can hope.
posted by Melismata at 9:04 AM on September 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
They just kicked out 11 students for violating their covid policy and is refusing to refund the tuition.
There are a lot of changes America should make as a response to the pandemic that aren't going to happen. Like UBI and universal health care.
Yeah, and gun control. The revolution is going to happen. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but at some point the "tipping point" will occur and a large number of 99%ers will say "fuck this shit." One can hope.
posted by Melismata at 9:04 AM on September 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
If the Covid crisis has revealed anything, it is that we have the money...the federal government recently made trillions of dollars appear out of thin air.
I'm now even less hopeful.
posted by meowzilla at 9:07 AM on September 8, 2020 [7 favorites]
I'm now even less hopeful.
posted by meowzilla at 9:07 AM on September 8, 2020 [7 favorites]
Yeah, and gun control. The revolution is going to happen. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but at some point the "tipping point" will occur and a large number of 99%ers will say "fuck this shit." One can hope.
Seems like the 99%ers will need guns once the tipping point comes for a revolution.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:17 AM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
Seems like the 99%ers will need guns once the tipping point comes for a revolution.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:17 AM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
So this isn't about the end of the university, but is rather about the end of the private university.
As far as mentality, public and private differ very little. Public universities, like private ones, copied their MO after corporations—VIP students, rockstar presidents/chancellors, massive spending on recruitment and administrative staff. The only question is which schools can weather the storm (rich ones) and which can't (everyone else).
It's far more likely to be Europe or China that will be making forward-thinking transformations in how higher learning works, given both regions largely have their shit together, but because they also have their shit together they don't need to make such a radical transformation.
Asian and European universities (on average) don't need to adapt to survive. They never went to the level of corporate excess or starvation from public funding that American universities experienced over the last two decades. And like so many things, one only changes if one must.
Yeah, and gun control. The revolution is going to happen. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but at some point the "tipping point" will occur and a large number of 99%ers will say "fuck this shit." One can hope.
Northeaster University was formerly a working-class school that was the ideal: the "great equalizer" in education.
College has almost completely detached itself from the goal of an educated working class. It's become the place to go to ascend out of the working class and many institutions and academicians have a great deal of derision to workers in society. The sooner colleges die and get remade into firmly proletarian institutions, the better.
Signed,
A College Instructor
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:35 AM on September 8, 2020 [35 favorites]
As far as mentality, public and private differ very little. Public universities, like private ones, copied their MO after corporations—VIP students, rockstar presidents/chancellors, massive spending on recruitment and administrative staff. The only question is which schools can weather the storm (rich ones) and which can't (everyone else).
It's far more likely to be Europe or China that will be making forward-thinking transformations in how higher learning works, given both regions largely have their shit together, but because they also have their shit together they don't need to make such a radical transformation.
Asian and European universities (on average) don't need to adapt to survive. They never went to the level of corporate excess or starvation from public funding that American universities experienced over the last two decades. And like so many things, one only changes if one must.
Yeah, and gun control. The revolution is going to happen. Perhaps not in our lifetimes, but at some point the "tipping point" will occur and a large number of 99%ers will say "fuck this shit." One can hope.
Northeaster University was formerly a working-class school that was the ideal: the "great equalizer" in education.
College has almost completely detached itself from the goal of an educated working class. It's become the place to go to ascend out of the working class and many institutions and academicians have a great deal of derision to workers in society. The sooner colleges die and get remade into firmly proletarian institutions, the better.
Signed,
A College Instructor
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:35 AM on September 8, 2020 [35 favorites]
"the end of the private university... I can definitely get behind."
EmpressCallipygos, I am curious. Why?
posted by doctornemo at 10:03 AM on September 8, 2020
EmpressCallipygos, I am curious. Why?
posted by doctornemo at 10:03 AM on September 8, 2020
It's great to see a Debt Collective co-founder weigh in on what 2020 reveals about higher education.
A very good analysis of American public higher ed. There's a lot to note in the article (adjunctification, for-profits, racial dimensions of student debt, etc), but I wanted to be sure folks saw the call for campus self-governance:
Administrators decide to hire adjuncts and pay them poorly; administrators invest tens of millions of dollars in athletics, not academics; administrators made up the Covid-19 planning committee, relying on a unilateral process when what was really needed was union, student, and community representation to help guide the university through an unprecedented crisis. A democratically governed university is the last thing administrators want to see—but it is the only thing that can ensure the long-term survival and safety of the institution and those who depend on it.
posted by doctornemo at 10:12 AM on September 8, 2020 [16 favorites]
A very good analysis of American public higher ed. There's a lot to note in the article (adjunctification, for-profits, racial dimensions of student debt, etc), but I wanted to be sure folks saw the call for campus self-governance:
Administrators decide to hire adjuncts and pay them poorly; administrators invest tens of millions of dollars in athletics, not academics; administrators made up the Covid-19 planning committee, relying on a unilateral process when what was really needed was union, student, and community representation to help guide the university through an unprecedented crisis. A democratically governed university is the last thing administrators want to see—but it is the only thing that can ensure the long-term survival and safety of the institution and those who depend on it.
posted by doctornemo at 10:12 AM on September 8, 2020 [16 favorites]
It occurs to me that this may be a good time for universities to decouple themselves from their amateur-in-name-only sports programs. It's kind of hard to justify teams come to campus when most of the rest of the student body are doing remote learning.
It is, and one of the big stories of 2020 is how the pandemic hit college sports. Campuses are cutting various teams across the country, and canceling games.
Remember, though, one of the key functions of college sports is marketing. The supermajority of teams don't make a profit. Instead, they help boost applications. As college and university presidents look at the likelihood of declining enrollments due to COVID, not to mention the overall enrollment decline since 2012, they desperately want anything that will claw in more tuition payments.
(Which does nicely sidestep that whole human suffering and death thing...)
posted by doctornemo at 10:16 AM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
It is, and one of the big stories of 2020 is how the pandemic hit college sports. Campuses are cutting various teams across the country, and canceling games.
Remember, though, one of the key functions of college sports is marketing. The supermajority of teams don't make a profit. Instead, they help boost applications. As college and university presidents look at the likelihood of declining enrollments due to COVID, not to mention the overall enrollment decline since 2012, they desperately want anything that will claw in more tuition payments.
(Which does nicely sidestep that whole human suffering and death thing...)
posted by doctornemo at 10:16 AM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Most college students in the US attend community colleges or regional commuter universities that you've never heard of. An awful lot attend for-profit institutions as well. The article has some really good stuff to say about those students. I encourage you to read it. This is not just about the Ivy League, small liberal arts colleges, or flagship state research universities.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:19 AM on September 8, 2020 [22 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 10:19 AM on September 8, 2020 [22 favorites]
"the end of the private university... I can definitely get behind."
EmpressCallipygos, I am curious. Why?
We consider an educated society to be important enough that we have a whole publicly funded K-12 school system to educate everyone. The wealthy still use private schools, but the public school option still exists for those who can't afford it - it isn't "private school or nothing". Paying out of pocket for your child's education is not the only option.
However, the world has changed to the point that a K-12 education is often not enough for most jobs. So, maybe we need to extend that publicly-funded K-12 education on into a publicly-funded bachelors' degree.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:56 AM on September 8, 2020 [22 favorites]
EmpressCallipygos, I am curious. Why?
We consider an educated society to be important enough that we have a whole publicly funded K-12 school system to educate everyone. The wealthy still use private schools, but the public school option still exists for those who can't afford it - it isn't "private school or nothing". Paying out of pocket for your child's education is not the only option.
However, the world has changed to the point that a K-12 education is often not enough for most jobs. So, maybe we need to extend that publicly-funded K-12 education on into a publicly-funded bachelors' degree.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:56 AM on September 8, 2020 [22 favorites]
College has almost completely detached itself from the goal of an educated working class. It's become the place to go to ascend out of the working class and many institutions and academicians have a great deal of derision to workers in society.
So when was college's goal to create an educated working class, where working class = 'manual and industrial' labor? If you check back to the US' founding fathers, even they got higher educations to leave the 'working class' behind, and that was a pretty long time ago.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:17 AM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
So when was college's goal to create an educated working class, where working class = 'manual and industrial' labor? If you check back to the US' founding fathers, even they got higher educations to leave the 'working class' behind, and that was a pretty long time ago.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:17 AM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'm just saying you have to create a very narrow definition of the 'working class' to say that the vast majority of people who graduate college are not members, even of elite private universities.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:18 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:18 AM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
However, the world has changed to the point that a K-12 education is often not enough for most jobs. So, maybe we need to extend that publicly-funded K-12 education on into a publicly-funded bachelors' degree.
Oh it's enough to DO most jobs, it just isn't enough to GET the job. Because people creating the jobs and hiring are stupid.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:34 AM on September 8, 2020 [42 favorites]
Oh it's enough to DO most jobs, it just isn't enough to GET the job. Because people creating the jobs and hiring are stupid.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:34 AM on September 8, 2020 [42 favorites]
I think it'd be much fairer to say that college was the great stratifier between blue-collar and white-collar labor than between the working class and the capitalist class.
College will help you become a banker, an accountant, a lawyer, an engineer. To own the business, whether it's a factory or a firm, you still very likely are looking at inherited wealth.
posted by explosion at 11:34 AM on September 8, 2020 [16 favorites]
College will help you become a banker, an accountant, a lawyer, an engineer. To own the business, whether it's a factory or a firm, you still very likely are looking at inherited wealth.
posted by explosion at 11:34 AM on September 8, 2020 [16 favorites]
[A high-school diploma is] enough to DO most jobs, it just isn't enough to GET the job. Because people creating the jobs and hiring are stupid.
No, it is because going to college has become a de-facto requirement for a wide variety of reasons, including class aspirations, peer / parent pressure, capitalism, etc. So hiring managers can afford to make that a requirement since the applicant pool is flooded with degree-holders. It makes filtering people out easier - and that's an HR person's primary function in the hiring process.
Making college free for everyone will do nothing to stop that - if anything, it will make it worse, since more people will have access to a college education. But at least the financial barrier of tuition will be removed.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:52 AM on September 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
No, it is because going to college has become a de-facto requirement for a wide variety of reasons, including class aspirations, peer / parent pressure, capitalism, etc. So hiring managers can afford to make that a requirement since the applicant pool is flooded with degree-holders. It makes filtering people out easier - and that's an HR person's primary function in the hiring process.
Making college free for everyone will do nothing to stop that - if anything, it will make it worse, since more people will have access to a college education. But at least the financial barrier of tuition will be removed.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:52 AM on September 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
Seems like the 99%ers will need guns once the tipping point comes for a revolution.
It would be quite the contradiction to publicly declare your movement represents 99 percent of the population and yet require armed conflict to pass policy in an otherwise democratic society.
posted by pwnguin at 11:55 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
It would be quite the contradiction to publicly declare your movement represents 99 percent of the population and yet require armed conflict to pass policy in an otherwise democratic society.
posted by pwnguin at 11:55 AM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Thank you, EmpressCallipygos .
I agree on the desireability of publicly funding undergrad degrees.
Private colleges and universities, though... there are a lot of them. Roughly 1/3rd of US higher ed.
It's also not a sector just for the elite. About 1/2 of historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) are private. The same is true of Hispanic-serving institutions (HSIs). And while some private colleges and universities focus on educating the elite (one campus I know had two (2) Pell-eligible students) others do a lot to teach the poor. They include some Catholic institutions among others.
Speaking of Catholic schools, what happens to the wide range of religiously-affiliated private colleges and universities?
posted by doctornemo at 11:59 AM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
I agree on the desireability of publicly funding undergrad degrees.
Private colleges and universities, though... there are a lot of them. Roughly 1/3rd of US higher ed.
It's also not a sector just for the elite. About 1/2 of historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) are private. The same is true of Hispanic-serving institutions (HSIs). And while some private colleges and universities focus on educating the elite (one campus I know had two (2) Pell-eligible students) others do a lot to teach the poor. They include some Catholic institutions among others.
Speaking of Catholic schools, what happens to the wide range of religiously-affiliated private colleges and universities?
posted by doctornemo at 11:59 AM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
hydropsyche :
Most college students in the US attend community colleges or regional commuter universities that you've never heard of. An awful lot attend for-profit institutions as well... This is not just about the Ivy League, small liberal arts colleges, or flagship state research universities.
This is such a huge point, and I hope MeFiites forgive me for repeating myself on it, but: all too often discussions of higher ed focus on a handful of campuses. In the US, it's the schools with storied reputations and endowments big enough that Thomas Piketty wondered if they warped income inequality across the nation.
But there are around 4400 higher education institutions in America. The biggest chunk of them are community colleges, and folks inside and outside of academia rarely mention them. State schools beyond "flagship" universities also educate huge numbers, and they often fall off the radar. Liberal arts colleges get a lot of attention, but only constitute around 80-250 of those schools. And so on.
It's a big, diverse ecosystem, and needs to be thought of in that way more than it is.
posted by doctornemo at 12:03 PM on September 8, 2020 [22 favorites]
Most college students in the US attend community colleges or regional commuter universities that you've never heard of. An awful lot attend for-profit institutions as well... This is not just about the Ivy League, small liberal arts colleges, or flagship state research universities.
This is such a huge point, and I hope MeFiites forgive me for repeating myself on it, but: all too often discussions of higher ed focus on a handful of campuses. In the US, it's the schools with storied reputations and endowments big enough that Thomas Piketty wondered if they warped income inequality across the nation.
But there are around 4400 higher education institutions in America. The biggest chunk of them are community colleges, and folks inside and outside of academia rarely mention them. State schools beyond "flagship" universities also educate huge numbers, and they often fall off the radar. Liberal arts colleges get a lot of attention, but only constitute around 80-250 of those schools. And so on.
It's a big, diverse ecosystem, and needs to be thought of in that way more than it is.
posted by doctornemo at 12:03 PM on September 8, 2020 [22 favorites]
We consider an educated society to be important enough that we have a whole publicly funded K-12 school system to educate everyone.
This is not something that we all agree on, and is already under attack by the current administration.
posted by meowzilla at 12:07 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is not something that we all agree on, and is already under attack by the current administration.
posted by meowzilla at 12:07 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Is America really in a position to be remaking anything right now though
Can't speak for America, but in Michigan, folks like to strike.
Harvard- 1918.
"The University took steps to decrease campus density, canceling all classes with more than 50 students and moving all students into either single rooms or two-..."
posted by clavdivs at 12:19 PM on September 8, 2020
Can't speak for America, but in Michigan, folks like to strike.
Harvard- 1918.
"The University took steps to decrease campus density, canceling all classes with more than 50 students and moving all students into either single rooms or two-..."
posted by clavdivs at 12:19 PM on September 8, 2020
This is not something that we all agree on, and is already under attack by the current administration.
But even here they're not trying to do away with public funding altogether, they're trying to change the means used to allocate that funding - "Instead of everyone in this community paying tax and then all that money going to support a public school that everyone in this community sends their kids to, how about we have everyone in this community still pay tax, but you have the option to take the money that would have gone to send your kid to a public school and turn it into a voucher you can apply to the tuition for a different school."
Everyone's still getting taxed, and everyone's still having taxes go towards educating kids. The problem of the school voucher program is that the public schools themselves get shortchanged which is a whole other issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:22 PM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
But even here they're not trying to do away with public funding altogether, they're trying to change the means used to allocate that funding - "Instead of everyone in this community paying tax and then all that money going to support a public school that everyone in this community sends their kids to, how about we have everyone in this community still pay tax, but you have the option to take the money that would have gone to send your kid to a public school and turn it into a voucher you can apply to the tuition for a different school."
Everyone's still getting taxed, and everyone's still having taxes go towards educating kids. The problem of the school voucher program is that the public schools themselves get shortchanged which is a whole other issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:22 PM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
But even here they're not trying to do away with public funding altogether, they're trying to change the means used to allocate that funding
It's effectively even worse. It's looting the coffers of the government to enrich one's children. Trumpism writ small.
As a non-parent, my tax dollars are meant to create and maintain an education system, and to ensure that everyone gets a minimum standard of education. Letting parents opt out means not only are the poor parents left with an impoverished school, but that school also is lacking wealthy (and influential) parents to lobby to improve the school.
It turns out that keeping the system and allowing the wealthy to leech off of it is even better for them than to eliminate the system entirely. That's the only reason why they're not trying to destroy it wholesale.
posted by explosion at 12:56 PM on September 8, 2020 [10 favorites]
It's effectively even worse. It's looting the coffers of the government to enrich one's children. Trumpism writ small.
As a non-parent, my tax dollars are meant to create and maintain an education system, and to ensure that everyone gets a minimum standard of education. Letting parents opt out means not only are the poor parents left with an impoverished school, but that school also is lacking wealthy (and influential) parents to lobby to improve the school.
It turns out that keeping the system and allowing the wealthy to leech off of it is even better for them than to eliminate the system entirely. That's the only reason why they're not trying to destroy it wholesale.
posted by explosion at 12:56 PM on September 8, 2020 [10 favorites]
To own the business, whether it's a factory or a firm, you still very likely are looking at inherited wealth.
I'm curious about that - any data you could point me to? First Google hit suggests 2/3 of rich ($30+ worth) are "self-made." But I don't know what that means. E.g., Jeff Bezos borrowed $300k from his family. Only a small sliver of the population could borrow that much; but of those in that position, only a tiny portion could start a trillion dollar company.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:59 PM on September 8, 2020
I'm curious about that - any data you could point me to? First Google hit suggests 2/3 of rich ($30+ worth) are "self-made." But I don't know what that means. E.g., Jeff Bezos borrowed $300k from his family. Only a small sliver of the population could borrow that much; but of those in that position, only a tiny portion could start a trillion dollar company.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 12:59 PM on September 8, 2020
I think the state/private distinction is nearly meaningless. Here in Boston, we note that the behavior of colleges in response to the crisis is driven by a much simpler question: is the college operating with a good financial backstop or not?
Colleges with a backstop are able to do things like what MIT is doing (only letting students back so they can perform laboratory work - a very important part of MIT's educational promise, and with very stringent safety protocols) or what some other schools are doing (going online only or flat out encouraging students to take a gap year). Meanwhile, colleges that are financially levered are pulling all sorts of sketchy shit. Whether it's going fully back to class when it's obviously not appropriate, or the sketchy as hell stunt that UNC pulled of announcing an online only semester just over an hour before the deadline to withdraw with a tuition refund.
Now why might a college be levered? Could be because it's a state school in a state that no longer cares to subsidize higher ed. Or because the endowment isn't doing so well. Or it could be a school that is too tied up with real estate transactions undertaken by roving administrators who have to have a project like that on the resume before they hop on to their next gig, regardless of whether the college needs it. That's a problem that plagues all of academia right now, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that at this particular moment MIT was not levered in that way.
So the tide is going out and we can see who's been skinning dipping, public or private. It's particularly laughable to see colleges that just months ago were publishing the usual platitudes about the importance of the authentic college experience, now charging full tuition for an all online semester.
posted by ocschwar at 1:00 PM on September 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
Colleges with a backstop are able to do things like what MIT is doing (only letting students back so they can perform laboratory work - a very important part of MIT's educational promise, and with very stringent safety protocols) or what some other schools are doing (going online only or flat out encouraging students to take a gap year). Meanwhile, colleges that are financially levered are pulling all sorts of sketchy shit. Whether it's going fully back to class when it's obviously not appropriate, or the sketchy as hell stunt that UNC pulled of announcing an online only semester just over an hour before the deadline to withdraw with a tuition refund.
Now why might a college be levered? Could be because it's a state school in a state that no longer cares to subsidize higher ed. Or because the endowment isn't doing so well. Or it could be a school that is too tied up with real estate transactions undertaken by roving administrators who have to have a project like that on the resume before they hop on to their next gig, regardless of whether the college needs it. That's a problem that plagues all of academia right now, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that at this particular moment MIT was not levered in that way.
So the tide is going out and we can see who's been skinning dipping, public or private. It's particularly laughable to see colleges that just months ago were publishing the usual platitudes about the importance of the authentic college experience, now charging full tuition for an all online semester.
posted by ocschwar at 1:00 PM on September 8, 2020 [5 favorites]
is the college operating with a good financial backstop or not?
Connecting to another Metafilter post today, one way a college gets a good financial backstop is by admitting wealthy students who go on to be wealthy alumni who give money to their wealthy college and call it philanthropy .
posted by hydropsyche at 1:10 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Connecting to another Metafilter post today, one way a college gets a good financial backstop is by admitting wealthy students who go on to be wealthy alumni who give money to their wealthy college and call it philanthropy .
posted by hydropsyche at 1:10 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm curious about that - any data you could point me to?
TBH, I don't have specific data, it's anecdotal, but happens with staggering frequency. But to the point of your linked article:
1) 33% of them are from at least partially-inherited wealth. That's a pretty high percentage! Certainly high enough that I feel comfortable saying it's "likely."
2) Even the "self-made" folks tend to be from moderate wealth. Mark Zuckerberg, for example, had was the son of a psychiatrist and a dentist, and went to Phillips Exeter Academy before attending Harvard.
3) "Self-made" has become a self-parody in our culture at this point. Tabloids were breathlessly anticipating Kylie Jenner becoming the "youngest self-made billionaire."
posted by explosion at 1:11 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
TBH, I don't have specific data, it's anecdotal, but happens with staggering frequency. But to the point of your linked article:
1) 33% of them are from at least partially-inherited wealth. That's a pretty high percentage! Certainly high enough that I feel comfortable saying it's "likely."
2) Even the "self-made" folks tend to be from moderate wealth. Mark Zuckerberg, for example, had was the son of a psychiatrist and a dentist, and went to Phillips Exeter Academy before attending Harvard.
3) "Self-made" has become a self-parody in our culture at this point. Tabloids were breathlessly anticipating Kylie Jenner becoming the "youngest self-made billionaire."
posted by explosion at 1:11 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Connecting to another Metafilter post today, one way a college gets a good financial backstop is by admitting wealthy students who go on to be wealthy alumni who give money to their wealthy college and call it philanthropy .
Or by having an endowment fund whose managers are a little too good at their jobs, if you catch my drift.
posted by ocschwar at 1:17 PM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
As I've been reading more of the scholarship about U.S. higher education - this is my field of study and the one in which I earned my PhD - the more I'm beginning to see parallels between the development of the middle class in the U.S. and the development of well-funded, public colleges and universities. In particular, I am beginning to wonder if both were historical aberrations of the mid-twentieth century that are unlikely to be repeated or sustained without significant, sustained focus. Our views and understandings - often more aspirational than empirical - seem to have been shaped by a unique moment in history. For example, for much of this country's history attending college - not even graduating, in some times and places - was not intended to advance one's social and economic standing but merely to confirm them. Higher education as a tool for advancement is a relatively new concept and in many cases it's an experiment that hasn't been very successful.
Additionally, U.S. higher education is not a system in any formal sense so it's difficult to draw conclusions about all institutions or the people who work at them. For example, it might helpful to remember that there is tremendous variation in the size of institutions. The Chronicle of Higher Education's The Almanac of Higher Education 2018-19 gives us a good breakdown of the distribution of number of institutions and student enrollments by Carnegie Classification. Note in particular how much the media focuses on the small sliver of research universities who command an extremely disproportionate share of resources and the other large groups of institutions that are rarely mentioned.
In 2016, doctoral universities made up 8% of institutions but enrolled 33% of students. Master's colleges - these are primarily regional universities, many of which evolved from teacher's colleges and sometimes derisively referred to as "directional" universities - made up 18% of institutions and enrolled 22% of students. Baccalaureate colleges made up 13% of institutions and enrolled 4% of students. Baccalaureate/associate colleges - many of which are relatively new as community colleges in many states began offering a handful of bachelor's degrees 10-15 years ago - made up 7% of institutions and 5% of enrollment. Associate colleges - mostly community colleges - 25% of institutions but 35% of student enrollments. Special focus institutions - medical schools, art schools, bible schools, law schools, beautician schools, etc. - made up 29% of institutions but only 4% of enrollments. Finally, tribal colleges made up less than 1% of both institutions and enrollments.
Finally, I am always annoyed by the division of U.S. academia employees into Evil administrators and Noble faculty members (and Invisible staff). This is annoying mostly because in my experience it simply isn't true; most administrators with whom I have interacted have very difficult decisions to make with extremely limited resources and options. Moreover, most of the administrators who have significant, institution-shaping authority are and were faculty members; this is most true for department chairs and deans who have immense responsibility for day-to-day operations and decisions that affect students and faculty (remember, we're ignoring staff - and don't ask too many questions about how we decide who is "staff" and who is "administration"). This also disregards the immense power of boards of trustees who bear enormous historical and ongoing responsibility for so much of this mess; the routine selection of board members who have little or no relevant experience is an ongoing crisis of leadership and stewardship that has led directly to many of these problems and stands in the way of solving them.
posted by ElKevbo at 2:00 PM on September 8, 2020 [11 favorites]
Additionally, U.S. higher education is not a system in any formal sense so it's difficult to draw conclusions about all institutions or the people who work at them. For example, it might helpful to remember that there is tremendous variation in the size of institutions. The Chronicle of Higher Education's The Almanac of Higher Education 2018-19 gives us a good breakdown of the distribution of number of institutions and student enrollments by Carnegie Classification. Note in particular how much the media focuses on the small sliver of research universities who command an extremely disproportionate share of resources and the other large groups of institutions that are rarely mentioned.
In 2016, doctoral universities made up 8% of institutions but enrolled 33% of students. Master's colleges - these are primarily regional universities, many of which evolved from teacher's colleges and sometimes derisively referred to as "directional" universities - made up 18% of institutions and enrolled 22% of students. Baccalaureate colleges made up 13% of institutions and enrolled 4% of students. Baccalaureate/associate colleges - many of which are relatively new as community colleges in many states began offering a handful of bachelor's degrees 10-15 years ago - made up 7% of institutions and 5% of enrollment. Associate colleges - mostly community colleges - 25% of institutions but 35% of student enrollments. Special focus institutions - medical schools, art schools, bible schools, law schools, beautician schools, etc. - made up 29% of institutions but only 4% of enrollments. Finally, tribal colleges made up less than 1% of both institutions and enrollments.
Finally, I am always annoyed by the division of U.S. academia employees into Evil administrators and Noble faculty members (and Invisible staff). This is annoying mostly because in my experience it simply isn't true; most administrators with whom I have interacted have very difficult decisions to make with extremely limited resources and options. Moreover, most of the administrators who have significant, institution-shaping authority are and were faculty members; this is most true for department chairs and deans who have immense responsibility for day-to-day operations and decisions that affect students and faculty (remember, we're ignoring staff - and don't ask too many questions about how we decide who is "staff" and who is "administration"). This also disregards the immense power of boards of trustees who bear enormous historical and ongoing responsibility for so much of this mess; the routine selection of board members who have little or no relevant experience is an ongoing crisis of leadership and stewardship that has led directly to many of these problems and stands in the way of solving them.
posted by ElKevbo at 2:00 PM on September 8, 2020 [11 favorites]
what some other schools are doing (going online only or flat out encouraging students to take a gap year)
This is Canadian universities afaik or at least Ontario ones. And their "backstop" is that they get the bulk of their funding from the government and in return they provide the vast majority of their admissions to kids from their home province.
The other thing that I think has helped push Canadian universities to going to a much safer all-online fall term is that they have pretty strong unions for professors. Basically if all the lecturers refuse to show up on campus, the university doesn't have much choice. US universities have done an amazing job of only expanding non-tenured lecturers and keeping them even poorer than the undergrads.
posted by GuyZero at 2:08 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is Canadian universities afaik or at least Ontario ones. And their "backstop" is that they get the bulk of their funding from the government and in return they provide the vast majority of their admissions to kids from their home province.
The other thing that I think has helped push Canadian universities to going to a much safer all-online fall term is that they have pretty strong unions for professors. Basically if all the lecturers refuse to show up on campus, the university doesn't have much choice. US universities have done an amazing job of only expanding non-tenured lecturers and keeping them even poorer than the undergrads.
posted by GuyZero at 2:08 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
So when was college's goal to create an educated working class, where working class = 'manual and industrial' labor?
The goals of many of the original public universities in the US from early-ish days onward were to educate citizens for informed democratic participation(*) and to create "yeoman farmers" who would be able to utilize advances in science in their farming practices. That idea was expanded upon with the land grant program in the mid to late 1800s, under which many of the current state universities were created. This conception of the goal of public higher education didn't necessarily include manual laborers, but did include a reasonable chunk of what would have been the working class at the time, and the second Morrill Act required recipient institutions to not discriminate on the basis of race in admissions (or to create a separate land grant institution for students of color).
(* Bearing in mind that the set of citizens who were allowed to participate in democracy in eg. Jefferson's time was much restricted.)
posted by eviemath at 2:46 PM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
The goals of many of the original public universities in the US from early-ish days onward were to educate citizens for informed democratic participation(*) and to create "yeoman farmers" who would be able to utilize advances in science in their farming practices. That idea was expanded upon with the land grant program in the mid to late 1800s, under which many of the current state universities were created. This conception of the goal of public higher education didn't necessarily include manual laborers, but did include a reasonable chunk of what would have been the working class at the time, and the second Morrill Act required recipient institutions to not discriminate on the basis of race in admissions (or to create a separate land grant institution for students of color).
(* Bearing in mind that the set of citizens who were allowed to participate in democracy in eg. Jefferson's time was much restricted.)
posted by eviemath at 2:46 PM on September 8, 2020 [6 favorites]
One thing I don't notice getting a lot of scrutiny (and just gets a passing mention in TFA) is the hugely distorting influence of for-profit medicine and university medical systems on university budgets and therefore decision making. The large prestigious public uni I worked for got fully 50% of its revenues from the medical system - compare that with single-digit percentages of the budget covered from state coffers (I'm guessing most countries wouldn't call that a public university at all). The effect was that the hospitals and their associated bureaucracy (so many associate deans of whatever-the-hell!) basically were pretty much untouchable, even as they were burning through 8-9 figure sums on the boondoggle personal projects of whatever corporate bigwig was brought in to bring the system to peak profitability. Just another area where unchecked capitalism has resulted in deeply perverse incentives that completely distort the original mission of the organizations and communities it touches.
posted by aiglet at 2:46 PM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by aiglet at 2:46 PM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Remember, though, one of the key functions of college sports is marketing. The supermajority of teams don't make a profit. Instead, they help boost applications. As college and university presidents look at the likelihood of declining enrollments due to COVID, not to mention the overall enrollment decline since 2012, they desperately want anything that will claw in more tuition payments.
When I looked at the sports econ literature on the effect of big-time sports on admissions and donations a few years ago, it seemed to me that there was very little evidence that college sports have positive effects. Having a big-time football program might have positive effects. Winning a championship probably has a small effect. But even if there are effects, it seemed to me that opportunity costs make essentially all investments in college sports a bad idea. Is there newer literature that paints a different picture? For example, is Getz and Siegfried (2010) "What does intercollegiate athletics do to or for colleges and universities?" (pdf) out of date and misleading or wrong now?
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 3:02 PM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
When I looked at the sports econ literature on the effect of big-time sports on admissions and donations a few years ago, it seemed to me that there was very little evidence that college sports have positive effects. Having a big-time football program might have positive effects. Winning a championship probably has a small effect. But even if there are effects, it seemed to me that opportunity costs make essentially all investments in college sports a bad idea. Is there newer literature that paints a different picture? For example, is Getz and Siegfried (2010) "What does intercollegiate athletics do to or for colleges and universities?" (pdf) out of date and misleading or wrong now?
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 3:02 PM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Colleges with a backstop are able to do things like what MIT is doing (only letting students back so they can perform laboratory work - a very important part of MIT's educational promise, and with very stringent safety protocols) or what some other schools are doing (going online only or flat out encouraging students to take a gap year).
See, I disagree with this too. Major institutions with researchers and many with attached hospital systems in the US are telling students to stay home. We've gone over many reasons why that is a questionable decision on an individual student basis, including that many don't have reliable internet at home, even if we agree it's the best decision to save lives. The US decided long ago it isn't going to follow the best ideas, collectively.
I consider this to be yet another failing of the 'public' part of the US college system. Colleges are operating with less integrity than your average Fortune 500, closing up when they should be stepping up. I find it doubly ironic when grocery stores, the trades, and many businesses are required to be open, like that is the bigger divide between the 'working class' and the 'college-going class'. The working class has to get their selves to work, COVID or not. The decision was made for them, without their input. No wonder people want to get away from that!
College students are encouraged to take a gap-year? Thanks for the advice. Could that advice be any more classist?
Also, anecdotally, on-line only education at the elementary level is terrible and borderline useless (as a daily 2nd grade and 5th grade educator now). I can't imagine it being better for more difficult subjects.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:04 PM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
See, I disagree with this too. Major institutions with researchers and many with attached hospital systems in the US are telling students to stay home. We've gone over many reasons why that is a questionable decision on an individual student basis, including that many don't have reliable internet at home, even if we agree it's the best decision to save lives. The US decided long ago it isn't going to follow the best ideas, collectively.
I consider this to be yet another failing of the 'public' part of the US college system. Colleges are operating with less integrity than your average Fortune 500, closing up when they should be stepping up. I find it doubly ironic when grocery stores, the trades, and many businesses are required to be open, like that is the bigger divide between the 'working class' and the 'college-going class'. The working class has to get their selves to work, COVID or not. The decision was made for them, without their input. No wonder people want to get away from that!
College students are encouraged to take a gap-year? Thanks for the advice. Could that advice be any more classist?
Also, anecdotally, on-line only education at the elementary level is terrible and borderline useless (as a daily 2nd grade and 5th grade educator now). I can't imagine it being better for more difficult subjects.
posted by The_Vegetables at 3:04 PM on September 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
Colleges are operating with less integrity than your average Fortune 500, closing up when they should be stepping up.
Closing to students allowed Emerson College to use its dorms to house the nearby homeless for the duration. How is that not stepping up?
College students are encouraged to take a gap-year? Thanks for the advice. Could that advice be any more classist?
Gap years aren't just so you can spend your parents money traveling through Europe.
posted by ocschwar at 3:54 PM on September 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
Closing to students allowed Emerson College to use its dorms to house the nearby homeless for the duration. How is that not stepping up?
College students are encouraged to take a gap-year? Thanks for the advice. Could that advice be any more classist?
Gap years aren't just so you can spend your parents money traveling through Europe.
posted by ocschwar at 3:54 PM on September 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
Having in-person instruction increases spread [the colleges which did open for in-person instruction have proved this quite easily with big outbreaks], which hurts everyone [including grocery store workers, tradespeople, etc]. The more people who stay isolated the better it is for everyone.
The country absolutely should be doing more to help those who are needed to keep working in person during the pandemic, but having more people spread the virus only hurts those people who are out in society more by increasing the chance they catch it.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:09 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
The country absolutely should be doing more to help those who are needed to keep working in person during the pandemic, but having more people spread the virus only hurts those people who are out in society more by increasing the chance they catch it.
posted by thefoxgod at 4:09 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also, anecdotally, on-line only education at the elementary level is terrible and borderline useless (as a daily 2nd grade and 5th grade educator now). I can't imagine it being better for more difficult subjects.
I can't say anything about PK-12 education, but as somebody teaching university biology courses for majors online, things are generally going really well. My freshmen mostly come to Zoom class and are engaged and learning things. They're even turning in their lab homework at rates I've never before seen in a regular class.
My seniors are not getting the awesome field and lab experiences that I wish I could be giving them, but we're really getting to do a lot of ecological modeling and data analysis skills in R that we usually don't have time for. Those are also important scientific skills, and in some ways testing hypotheses with modeling using large publicly available datasets teaches more about how we think systems work than analyzing the much smaller datasets we usually collect on our own. I don't know that my senior level class is better or worse--it's just different.
All that said, I can't wait to go back to in person teaching. I am not an online teacher. But I am in a vulnerable population and do not want to die, so for now I am an online teacher.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:16 PM on September 8, 2020 [26 favorites]
I can't say anything about PK-12 education, but as somebody teaching university biology courses for majors online, things are generally going really well. My freshmen mostly come to Zoom class and are engaged and learning things. They're even turning in their lab homework at rates I've never before seen in a regular class.
My seniors are not getting the awesome field and lab experiences that I wish I could be giving them, but we're really getting to do a lot of ecological modeling and data analysis skills in R that we usually don't have time for. Those are also important scientific skills, and in some ways testing hypotheses with modeling using large publicly available datasets teaches more about how we think systems work than analyzing the much smaller datasets we usually collect on our own. I don't know that my senior level class is better or worse--it's just different.
All that said, I can't wait to go back to in person teaching. I am not an online teacher. But I am in a vulnerable population and do not want to die, so for now I am an online teacher.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:16 PM on September 8, 2020 [26 favorites]
We consider an educated society to be important enough that we have a whole publicly funded K-12 school system to educate everyone
we seem to have baked inequality and multigenerational failure into that by funding it by property taxes (one of the live wires of middle-class lib/con alike - "don't mess with mah kids schools to help the poorz"), so not sure we can use universal k12 as a model for "now let's do higher ed with the same principle/degree of care"
posted by lalochezia at 5:59 PM on September 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
we seem to have baked inequality and multigenerational failure into that by funding it by property taxes (one of the live wires of middle-class lib/con alike - "don't mess with mah kids schools to help the poorz"), so not sure we can use universal k12 as a model for "now let's do higher ed with the same principle/degree of care"
posted by lalochezia at 5:59 PM on September 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
the state/private distinction is nearly meaningless - depends on the state and the campus.
Some states, like New York, North Carolina, and California, take a very active role in higher education. Even while cutting per-student funding.
Others step back enough, or are negotiated back, while cutting, so that you get statements like this, from my alma mater's former president:
As university president I used to explain that during this period we had evolved from a state-supported to a state-assisted to a state-related to a state-located university. In fact, with Michigan campuses now located in Europe and Asia, we remain only a state-molested institution.
Some "public" university leaders have told me they're effectively private in action.
Like I say, it depends.
posted by doctornemo at 7:14 PM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
Some states, like New York, North Carolina, and California, take a very active role in higher education. Even while cutting per-student funding.
Others step back enough, or are negotiated back, while cutting, so that you get statements like this, from my alma mater's former president:
As university president I used to explain that during this period we had evolved from a state-supported to a state-assisted to a state-related to a state-located university. In fact, with Michigan campuses now located in Europe and Asia, we remain only a state-molested institution.
Some "public" university leaders have told me they're effectively private in action.
Like I say, it depends.
posted by doctornemo at 7:14 PM on September 8, 2020 [2 favorites]
...it seemed to me that there was very little evidence that college sports have positive effects. Having a big-time football program might have positive effects. Winning a championship probably has a small effect. But even if there are effects, it seemed to me that opportunity costs make essentially all investments in college sports a bad idea. Is there newer literature that paints a different picture?
I didn't say it was a good idea. Just that that's how campuses try to make it work.
There are other forces at play, too, in keeping sports teams going when they cost money and/or reputation. Alumni can organize fiercely to protect them. State governments and the public can apply pressure.
posted by doctornemo at 7:16 PM on September 8, 2020
I didn't say it was a good idea. Just that that's how campuses try to make it work.
There are other forces at play, too, in keeping sports teams going when they cost money and/or reputation. Alumni can organize fiercely to protect them. State governments and the public can apply pressure.
posted by doctornemo at 7:16 PM on September 8, 2020
There are a LOT of colleges that fall between community colleges and the Ivies: schools in Charlotte and Portland (the one with lobsters or the one with rain), and Duluth, and the middle of nowhere.
These schools serve real people, just as community colleges do, and they usually do so without a big endowment or state support. They are the middle class of higher education, with every bit of precarity that the analogy suggests: many are located in downtowns and bought buildings when no one else wanted to own property there, or they have several new buildings that they can afford as long as enrollment stays up.
There are tons of business majors and elementary education majors and physical therapists who come out of these schools, and it would be a shame to lose them.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:52 PM on September 8, 2020 [7 favorites]
These schools serve real people, just as community colleges do, and they usually do so without a big endowment or state support. They are the middle class of higher education, with every bit of precarity that the analogy suggests: many are located in downtowns and bought buildings when no one else wanted to own property there, or they have several new buildings that they can afford as long as enrollment stays up.
There are tons of business majors and elementary education majors and physical therapists who come out of these schools, and it would be a shame to lose them.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:52 PM on September 8, 2020 [7 favorites]
Also, anecdotally, on-line only education at the elementary level is terrible and borderline useless (as a daily 2nd grade and 5th grade educator now). I can't imagine it being better for more difficult subjects.
It’s . . . Not bad. I did not want to do online classes at all as an adult returning student and I really thought about dropping out (again) this semester. But I am glad I did, because chances are strong if I drop out again, I won’t go back. Don’t get me wrong, really don’t like some pieces of it; the tools they use to make sure you understand the materials is infuriating and expensive. I pray my adhd doesn’t get the best of me where I’m completely responsible for managing my own time. (No locking myself away at the school library to ensure I study as opposed to rearrange all the things) But the materials covered and the way the professors are handling Classes seem decent enough.
(I am sure the difference from k-12 is the ability to of college students to self manage and be patient over technical difficulties...)
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:47 PM on September 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
It’s . . . Not bad. I did not want to do online classes at all as an adult returning student and I really thought about dropping out (again) this semester. But I am glad I did, because chances are strong if I drop out again, I won’t go back. Don’t get me wrong, really don’t like some pieces of it; the tools they use to make sure you understand the materials is infuriating and expensive. I pray my adhd doesn’t get the best of me where I’m completely responsible for managing my own time. (No locking myself away at the school library to ensure I study as opposed to rearrange all the things) But the materials covered and the way the professors are handling Classes seem decent enough.
(I am sure the difference from k-12 is the ability to of college students to self manage and be patient over technical difficulties...)
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:47 PM on September 8, 2020 [4 favorites]
Finally, I am always annoyed by the division of U.S. academia employees into Evil administrators and Noble faculty members (and Invisible staff). This is annoying mostly because in my experience it simply isn't true; most administrators with whom I have interacted have very difficult decisions to make with extremely limited resources and options.
A very common theme among cash strapped colleges is the ill-considered building project that the college didn't actually need but that got pushed because someone needed to cut a ribbon before moving on to a newer gig. And invariably there's a story of an evil admin as opposed to faculty who would have been fine staying in their old building. If your experience was with a better sample set of admins, well, I'd like you to name names so that MIT can try to poach them.
posted by ocschwar at 9:29 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
A very common theme among cash strapped colleges is the ill-considered building project that the college didn't actually need but that got pushed because someone needed to cut a ribbon before moving on to a newer gig. And invariably there's a story of an evil admin as opposed to faculty who would have been fine staying in their old building. If your experience was with a better sample set of admins, well, I'd like you to name names so that MIT can try to poach them.
posted by ocschwar at 9:29 PM on September 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
Great article. I'll admit, though, that I'm afraid the forces the article documented and warned about that starved universities of public funding, emmisurated the majority of their employees, and plunged their students into debt will simply use the crisis wrought by Coronavirus to further advance their agendas. I recall Nancy Pelosi promising aid to states in the "next" stimulus after the first stimulus failed to contain such aide; thus far, I do not see any evidence of this aide or another stimulus.
As far as I can tell, the best case scenario is for Democrats to win the Presidency and both houses of congress in November and pass some kind of rescue package. Will they water it down to appease their centrist block like after the 2008 recession? Will the Republican's come roaring back two years later, assuming the Democrats even win in November? What troubles me is that, as the article points out, the public disinvestment and neoliberalization and higher education appears a fundamentally bipartisan affair. I recall Rendell (a powerful Democrat) cutting state aide to PA universities after the last recession. Considering Biden is basically running as a continuation (restoration?) of the Obama years, can be expect more of the same? As the article points out, that time period was not kind to university funding.
As I've been reading more of the scholarship about U.S. higher education - this is my field of study and the one in which I earned my PhD - the more I'm beginning to see parallels between the development of the middle class in the U.S. and the development of well-funded, public colleges and universities. In particular, I am beginning to wonder if both were historical aberrations of the mid-twentieth century that are unlikely to be repeated or sustained without significant, sustained focus.
The mid-twentieth century saw the zeinth of left-wing activism in the US to reduce economic inequality through government programs like the New Deal and non-government initiatives like the trade union movement. In addition, the US also faced Communist and Socialist regimes promising an alternatives to the economic inequalities of gilded age capitalism, as well as the need to raise armies to win a world war and contain said communist regimes.
I guess the above is my way of giving a "hard agree" to your conjecture. In other words: YES!!!!
posted by eagles123 at 10:33 PM on September 8, 2020
Also, anecdotally, on-line only education at the elementary level is terrible and borderline useless (as a daily 2nd grade and 5th grade educator now). I can't imagine it being better for more difficult subjects.
I've been having a pretty good experience teaching junior-year fluid mechanics to my chemical engineering undergrads. I think the lectures would be better in person, of course, but they've been surprisingly interactive over zoom. And quarantine learning prompted me to start a class slack workspace, which has been tremendously successful. I feel like I have more contact with students now than I had in the pre-COVID email / Piazza-based environment. I also feel that students are more willing to come to my zoom office hours than were brave enough to venture to my on-campus office hours. Office contact hours have roughly doubled. Going forward, I'm going to make standing online office hours a thing.
I think it's been weirdly good, and we're learning a lot.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:42 PM on September 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
I've been having a pretty good experience teaching junior-year fluid mechanics to my chemical engineering undergrads. I think the lectures would be better in person, of course, but they've been surprisingly interactive over zoom. And quarantine learning prompted me to start a class slack workspace, which has been tremendously successful. I feel like I have more contact with students now than I had in the pre-COVID email / Piazza-based environment. I also feel that students are more willing to come to my zoom office hours than were brave enough to venture to my on-campus office hours. Office contact hours have roughly doubled. Going forward, I'm going to make standing online office hours a thing.
I think it's been weirdly good, and we're learning a lot.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:42 PM on September 8, 2020 [8 favorites]
So when was college's goal to create an educated working class, where working class = 'manual and industrial' labor? If you check back to the US' founding fathers, even they got higher educations to leave the 'working class' behind, and that was a pretty long time ago.
I think it'd be much fairer to say that college was the great stratifier between blue-collar and white-collar labor than between the working class and the capitalist class.
College will help you become a banker, an accountant, a lawyer, an engineer. To own the business, whether it's a factory or a firm, you still very likely are looking at inherited wealth.
I was speaking to the idea that college divides the professional-managerial class from the standard wage-laboring working class. I usually am on the side of the PMC being at least partially-proletarian in nature if it rejects capitalist ideology and management, but we can't but recognize how college often acts to help people ascend out of service and manual labor jobs into "professions," from wages to salary, and therefore caters to a group that on average makes more money than service and manual laborers. For a truly democratic education system, academia would have to see the service and manual laborers as part of its constituency and service. Community colleges (when they haven't been contaminated by ivory tower thinking of "the University") do this already somewhat, which is why with regard to mission, I'd rather see Harvard become more like a Boston CC than the other way around.
However, across the board, colleges have absolutely terrible labor practices, community colleges included. The adjunctificaiton has run its course. Amputation is the only remedy.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:17 AM on September 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I think it'd be much fairer to say that college was the great stratifier between blue-collar and white-collar labor than between the working class and the capitalist class.
College will help you become a banker, an accountant, a lawyer, an engineer. To own the business, whether it's a factory or a firm, you still very likely are looking at inherited wealth.
I was speaking to the idea that college divides the professional-managerial class from the standard wage-laboring working class. I usually am on the side of the PMC being at least partially-proletarian in nature if it rejects capitalist ideology and management, but we can't but recognize how college often acts to help people ascend out of service and manual labor jobs into "professions," from wages to salary, and therefore caters to a group that on average makes more money than service and manual laborers. For a truly democratic education system, academia would have to see the service and manual laborers as part of its constituency and service. Community colleges (when they haven't been contaminated by ivory tower thinking of "the University") do this already somewhat, which is why with regard to mission, I'd rather see Harvard become more like a Boston CC than the other way around.
However, across the board, colleges have absolutely terrible labor practices, community colleges included. The adjunctificaiton has run its course. Amputation is the only remedy.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:17 AM on September 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Amputation is the only remedy.
What would that look like, Lord Chancellor?
posted by doctornemo at 8:50 AM on September 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
What would that look like, Lord Chancellor?
posted by doctornemo at 8:50 AM on September 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I too am curious what you mean by amputation.
I'm also not convinced any of this is enough to actually change higher ed. in the US, however desirable that may be.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:21 AM on September 9, 2020
I'm also not convinced any of this is enough to actually change higher ed. in the US, however desirable that may be.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:21 AM on September 9, 2020
Schools get out of the landlording business. While schools can house cooperative economic ventures, they can never be in opposition to the reality of the vast majority of students—tenants, not land lording or bossing.
Schools take back control from boards of regents and divide the power between the faculty, the staff, the students, and the community/state (which would imply funding). Each body would have elected representation to the governing board of the university.
Adjunct professors and graduate workers should be unionized and not made to fill in for the rest of the faculty at poverty wages.
Schools should immediately stop trying to chase the "prestige train" where educational certifications and degrees are made deliberately scarce so as to increase their social and cultural capital. Moving to an open admissions system (which many community colleges have) where anyone with the necessary credentials can gain admission is one of the first steps. The admission boards must be broken, the scouting and recruiting must be cast aside, and in it's place will be a truly democratic college: students moving in and out of academia for their whole lives, college is jointly owned by all that work and labor there, colleges not in competition for recruits as the social capital has been "devalued."
As you can see, the whole system needs such massive overhaul that it would be easier to scrap the old system and create a brand new constitution for each school.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:21 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Schools take back control from boards of regents and divide the power between the faculty, the staff, the students, and the community/state (which would imply funding). Each body would have elected representation to the governing board of the university.
Adjunct professors and graduate workers should be unionized and not made to fill in for the rest of the faculty at poverty wages.
Schools should immediately stop trying to chase the "prestige train" where educational certifications and degrees are made deliberately scarce so as to increase their social and cultural capital. Moving to an open admissions system (which many community colleges have) where anyone with the necessary credentials can gain admission is one of the first steps. The admission boards must be broken, the scouting and recruiting must be cast aside, and in it's place will be a truly democratic college: students moving in and out of academia for their whole lives, college is jointly owned by all that work and labor there, colleges not in competition for recruits as the social capital has been "devalued."
As you can see, the whole system needs such massive overhaul that it would be easier to scrap the old system and create a brand new constitution for each school.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 9:21 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
The regional commuter 4-year college where I work is also open admissions. "Access institution" is the common lingo around here. It turns out that most people who are interested in doing so can do college level work just fine when given the opportunity and resources needed. The constant push for elitism and exclusivity in higher ed is just racism and classism.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:48 AM on September 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 10:48 AM on September 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
Schools get out of the landlording business.
Harvard owns half of Harvard Square. This is actually a good thing, because, except for the occasional cell phone store or pizza place, the other half is owned by billionaire real-estate moguls who are deliberately keeping storefronts vacant in hopes of either holding out for higher rent and/or driving down foot traffic so that their neighbors will go out of business, and they can buy that property for cheap too. Capitalism at its finest.
posted by Melismata at 11:27 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Harvard owns half of Harvard Square. This is actually a good thing, because, except for the occasional cell phone store or pizza place, the other half is owned by billionaire real-estate moguls who are deliberately keeping storefronts vacant in hopes of either holding out for higher rent and/or driving down foot traffic so that their neighbors will go out of business, and they can buy that property for cheap too. Capitalism at its finest.
posted by Melismata at 11:27 AM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am NOT singing Harvard's praises, however; over the past few years, they kicked out an Au Bon Pain and a cheap Chinese restaurant that had been there for 40 years in favor of a large swanky new Student Center that has a few trendy eateries inside; they, like all schools, are trying to attract the highest number of students who pay retail in cash.
posted by Melismata at 11:38 AM on September 9, 2020
posted by Melismata at 11:38 AM on September 9, 2020
(To clarify: they did not kick out the Chinese restaurant because they wanted a new building in its place; they kicked it out and replaced it with a trendy restaurant, because it was next to the new student center and we can't have a dumpy cheap Chinese place next to the new student center. The Au Bon Pain was actually in the student center building; they were kicked out and the building was gutted.)
posted by Melismata at 11:41 AM on September 9, 2020
posted by Melismata at 11:41 AM on September 9, 2020
What Harvard University, the richest university in the world, does or does not do is almost always irrelevant to what the other ~4,000 colleges and universities in the U.S. can or should do.
posted by ElKevbo at 12:02 PM on September 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by ElKevbo at 12:02 PM on September 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
It's pretty damn relevant as all these schools are aping Harvard. My school is obsessed with "being an ivy" and so takes cues from Harvard and Yale. While Harvard is extremely anomalous, it has a wide-ranging effect on American higher education.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:06 PM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:06 PM on September 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I actually don't think that most institutions are aping Harvard. It may be that a very small subset of highly-selective institutions are aping Harvard, but the vast majority of American students don't attend those institutions. And fixating on them really warps discussions of higher ed policy, which is why it's nice that the author of this piece avoids doing that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:09 PM on September 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:09 PM on September 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
> One thing I don't notice getting a lot of scrutiny (and just gets a passing mention in TFA) is the hugely distorting influence of for-profit medicine and university medical systems on university budgets and therefore decision making.
fwiw, the "physician surplus" narrative...
posted by kliuless at 9:42 PM on September 9, 2020
fwiw, the "physician surplus" narrative...
posted by kliuless at 9:42 PM on September 9, 2020
also fwiw: "What's inevitably going to happen is that people are going to ask for a federalization of the university system. And either the federal government will do that or it won't. Either way, big changes are in store for the university system."
posted by kliuless at 10:37 PM on September 9, 2020
posted by kliuless at 10:37 PM on September 9, 2020
Thank you for expanding on that point, Lord Chancellor.
Sounds like a deep and broad overhaul indeed.
posted by doctornemo at 7:22 AM on September 10, 2020
Sounds like a deep and broad overhaul indeed.
posted by doctornemo at 7:22 AM on September 10, 2020
Recent conversation in the Higher Education community is about this article in the Washington Monthly, for example, here, and here.
In a nutshell, the issue is summarized in an article by the same author last year (my emphasis):
posted by idb at 10:24 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
In a nutshell, the issue is summarized in an article by the same author last year (my emphasis):
"Many states have slashed public funding for higher learning, shifting the burden to students and parents. Private schools have hiked prices into the stratosphere in pursuit of status and fame. As real public university tuition tripled over the last three decades while middle-income wages stagnated, the federal government’s main response was to lend students ever-larger sums of money to make up the difference, with no control over how much colleges charged or whether the degrees were any good. It was a policy mistake of epic proportions, leaving the path to economic mobility badly narrowed and a generation of collegians saddled with unaffordable loans."Personally, I think that a chunk of the problem is the escalating cost of healthcare and benefits in an industry that suffers from Baumol's cost disease. (Good) Teaching doesn't (seem to) scale and so productivity cannot change.
posted by idb at 10:24 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
(I am sure the difference from k-12 is the ability to of college students to self manage and be patient over technical difficulties...)
Speaking as someone who moved from teaching pre-school (under twos) to teaching at a university, this is broadly true... but not in the sense of college students being superior at these emotional skills.
The huge advantages of teaching at a university are that all of my students are toilet trained and none of them have vomited on me (yet).
posted by tumbling at 4:39 AM on September 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
Speaking as someone who moved from teaching pre-school (under twos) to teaching at a university, this is broadly true... but not in the sense of college students being superior at these emotional skills.
The huge advantages of teaching at a university are that all of my students are toilet trained and none of them have vomited on me (yet).
posted by tumbling at 4:39 AM on September 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
So this isn't about the end of the university, but is rather about the end of the private university.
The latter I can definitely get behind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos
Yes, it's interesting that so many progressives want to outlaw private schooling at the preschool-to-12th-grade level, but most never have a word to say about private schooling at the college level. Private colleges don't "promote inequality," apparently.
posted by cinchona at 4:35 PM on September 19, 2020
The latter I can definitely get behind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos
Yes, it's interesting that so many progressives want to outlaw private schooling at the preschool-to-12th-grade level, but most never have a word to say about private schooling at the college level. Private colleges don't "promote inequality," apparently.
posted by cinchona at 4:35 PM on September 19, 2020
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The latter I can definitely get behind.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:16 AM on September 8, 2020 [16 favorites]