A Rosebud By Any Other Name
October 20, 2020 12:53 AM Subscribe
Gore Vidal has a few words to say about Orson Welles. [NB: Right now there is free access to all the NYRB archives. This will probably end November 5.]
If you want to debate the meaning of "Rosebud", read this.
If you want to debate the meaning of "Rosebud", read this.
I am interested in all the above and will now go and read the article. Thank you for posting, CCBC.
posted by valetta at 1:01 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by valetta at 1:01 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
Wonderful piece.
posted by Paul Slade at 4:56 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Paul Slade at 4:56 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
Welles was only 70 years old when he died? Hard to believe!
posted by SoberHighland at 4:59 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by SoberHighland at 4:59 AM on October 20, 2020
Orson never knew that I knew how, the previous week, Orson’s driver had delivered him to the restaurant’s parking lot, only to find that Orson was so tightly wedged in the front seat that the car had to be taken apart so that he could get out.
The mixture of feelings that this evokes is amazing.
I feel like I read this before but at the same time it is oddly unfamiliar. Maybe I read an excerpted version or something.
Also this finally made me understand my confusion with the Orson Welles War of the Worlds radio play. It is stupid but HG Wells and Orson Welles' names are homophones and it always had me confused about the time frame. I never quite put it together until I read this article. Not sure what that says about me, but there it is.
posted by Literaryhero at 5:21 AM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
The mixture of feelings that this evokes is amazing.
I feel like I read this before but at the same time it is oddly unfamiliar. Maybe I read an excerpted version or something.
Also this finally made me understand my confusion with the Orson Welles War of the Worlds radio play. It is stupid but HG Wells and Orson Welles' names are homophones and it always had me confused about the time frame. I never quite put it together until I read this article. Not sure what that says about me, but there it is.
posted by Literaryhero at 5:21 AM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is a great piece, I recently reread it when Atom Eyes mentioned the Rudy Vallee grapefruit story in the grapefruit post from a little while ago. It is interesting that a lot of Welles' unreleased films have in recent years surfaced: Don Quixote (finished by Jess Franco of all people), F for Fake, Chimes At Midnight, Other Side of the Wind. I wonder what Vidal would have made of these zombie projects? And incidentally, Big Brass Ring was eventually produced in 1999 with William Hurt.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:26 AM on October 20, 2020
Thank you for the great read. I greatly admire both of these men but I had no idea that they were friends. I would've thought that such august personalities wouldn't get along, but on second thought I wonder whether either ever found another equally intelligent, worldly, quick-witted friend. To be a fly at their table!
posted by SA456 at 7:24 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by SA456 at 7:24 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
incidentally, Big Brass Ring was eventually produced in 1999 with William Hurt.
It doesn't sound quite like it was Welles's Ring. Wikipedia: "However, Hickenlooper made substantial changes from the Welles script ... much of the dialogue was rewritten and reinterpreted. None of Welles's satire of Reagan-era politics was retained in the final film, while a number of key scenes, like a charged confrontation between Pellarin and Minnaker on a Ferris wheel, were also omitted.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2020
It doesn't sound quite like it was Welles's Ring. Wikipedia: "However, Hickenlooper made substantial changes from the Welles script ... much of the dialogue was rewritten and reinterpreted. None of Welles's satire of Reagan-era politics was retained in the final film, while a number of key scenes, like a charged confrontation between Pellarin and Minnaker on a Ferris wheel, were also omitted.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:13 AM on October 20, 2020
Oh no it definitely is not like the original screenplay but there was no way it would be (especially based on Gore Vidal's description in the essay). Former film critic for LA Weekly F.X. Feeney has a screen credit so I wonder how much Hickenlooper was the actual re-writer. It is not a great movie but some of the performances I think are good.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:38 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:38 AM on October 20, 2020
Back in the late 60’s in New York City, a bunch of construction workers beat the crap out of a bunch of hippie protestors. Vietnam war. That same week, David Frost took a week off from his daily talk show. He invited Orson Welles to be the host that week. One day, Welles talked about that incident, he said he’s been out of the country and wanted to know what was going on. So he invited the construction workers and the protestors who were sitting in two widely separate groups. He asked the construction workers why they attacked the protestors. One of them stood up and said they had a sign that made fun of the president. Welles stood on the stage, and you could see his anger growing. After a pause, he started to speak, slightly louder, and slowly, directly to the still standing construction worker, “In this country... we have a tradition... of making fun of the president.” The worker sat down, while Welles still glowered at him. He then turned to the protestors... This was probably one of the most memorable moments of TV I remember.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:05 AM on October 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 9:05 AM on October 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
If you want to debate the meaning of "Rosebud", read this.
Hoo, hah!
posted by No Robots at 9:09 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
Hoo, hah!
posted by No Robots at 9:09 AM on October 20, 2020 [1 favorite]
It is interesting that a lot of Welles' unreleased films have in recent years surfaced: Don Quixote (finished by Jess Franco of all people), F for Fake, Chimes At Midnight, Other Side of the Wind.
F for Fake and Chimes at Midnight were both completed and released during Welles' lifetime. That said, there are other uncompleted projects that have been at least partially reassembled in recent years, including The Merchant of Venice and The Deep.
posted by Awkward Philip at 9:39 AM on October 20, 2020
F for Fake and Chimes at Midnight were both completed and released during Welles' lifetime. That said, there are other uncompleted projects that have been at least partially reassembled in recent years, including The Merchant of Venice and The Deep.
posted by Awkward Philip at 9:39 AM on October 20, 2020
I'm a fan of Vidal. I get the sense that he was maybe kinda insufferable in real life, but everything he does is really interesting.
For those interested in more Orson interviews, there's also a Henry Jaglom/Peter Biskind book: 'My Lunches with Orson'.
(also: Mank trailer)
posted by ovvl at 9:52 AM on October 20, 2020
For those interested in more Orson interviews, there's also a Henry Jaglom/Peter Biskind book: 'My Lunches with Orson'.
(also: Mank trailer)
posted by ovvl at 9:52 AM on October 20, 2020
Oh no it definitely is not like the original screenplay but there was no way it would be (especially based on Gore Vidal's description in the essay)
Yeah, that thing with the handkerchief...
I love this essay as it combines two of my favorite things:
Yeah, that thing with the handkerchief...
I love this essay as it combines two of my favorite things:
- Gore Vidal expatiating on the life and work of a fellow artist
- Orson Welles in full-on raconteur mode
... then took radio by storm, dramatizing novels and stories, among them H.G. Wells’s War of the Worlds, done in a realistic radio way, using the medium to report, moment by moment, the arrival of Martians in New Jersey.
The subsequent national panic augurs ill for that inevitable day when Ortega drops his Señor Buén Muchacho mask and nukes Miami.
A smidge dated, also read quite a bit of Vidal sometime ago, intend to re-read Burr soonish, perhaps when disturbing political topics are on the wane. Kalki deeply terrified and oddly reassured me, deserved the Nebula and should have won a Hugo. Anyone have a fun best of Vidal list?
posted by sammyo at 10:25 AM on October 20, 2020
The subsequent national panic augurs ill for that inevitable day when Ortega drops his Señor Buén Muchacho mask and nukes Miami.
A smidge dated, also read quite a bit of Vidal sometime ago, intend to re-read Burr soonish, perhaps when disturbing political topics are on the wane. Kalki deeply terrified and oddly reassured me, deserved the Nebula and should have won a Hugo. Anyone have a fun best of Vidal list?
posted by sammyo at 10:25 AM on October 20, 2020
Best of Vidal? Only read Creation, great novel about the birth of philosophy and religion. Not available, but his time doing live commentary on the political conventions with William F. Buckley in the late 60’s. They did not agree.
posted by njohnson23 at 10:34 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by njohnson23 at 10:34 AM on October 20, 2020
A fun list? I guess the thing about Vidal's novels is that they tend to be very entertaining and fun. Certainly "Lincoln" "Burr" and "1876" are all wonderful. I also liked "Myra Breckinridge" but I don't know if anyone else did.
posted by acrasis at 10:38 AM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by acrasis at 10:38 AM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
From seeing his movies to watching his interviews kicking around youtube I must say I have formed the opinion that the world was Welles's to lose. Thank for posting this.
posted by Pembquist at 10:46 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by Pembquist at 10:46 AM on October 20, 2020
My Vidal faves: 'Creation' is his masterpiece, 'Burr' is very good, a compilation of his early novellas was quite interesting. I didn't hate the book version of 'Myra Breckenridge' but that's definitely a big YMMV. There are several comps of his non-fiction essays and journalism which are all worth a look. My fave longer non-fiction piece is the text version of 'The American Presidency' video, which is super-sarcastic.
posted by ovvl at 11:29 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by ovvl at 11:29 AM on October 20, 2020
I was wrong. Vidal vs Buckley at the political conventions is available.
posted by njohnson23 at 11:36 AM on October 20, 2020
posted by njohnson23 at 11:36 AM on October 20, 2020
For nonfiction, I'd recommend the 1295-page compendium of essays United States, 1952-1992.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:21 PM on October 20, 2020
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:21 PM on October 20, 2020
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posted by CCBC at 12:58 AM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]