A Republican and a Democrat are running for governor of Utah...
October 20, 2020 1:57 PM Subscribe
US Politics has broken me.
Mission accomplished!
posted by Thorzdad at 2:09 PM on October 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
Mission accomplished!
posted by Thorzdad at 2:09 PM on October 20, 2020 [7 favorites]
I've never heard of either of them but after watching the ad, this is my only takeaway:
☐ Chris Peterson [D]
☐ Spencer Cox [R]
☑️ None of the above
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:19 PM on October 20, 2020 [10 favorites]
☐ Chris Peterson [D]
☐ Spencer Cox [R]
☑️ None of the above
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:19 PM on October 20, 2020 [10 favorites]
No idea who these two white guys are, but I'm assuming a Democrat in Utah is basically just a Republican in disguise. Not sure how well the idea of "I'm a Republican, so I'm tacitly/explicitly supporting dehumanizing transfolk, keeping children in cages, and ramming through a SCOTUS nom who'll rollback civil rights, but hey don't hate me" is playing outside of a state that's 90% white, but hey over here it suuuuuper sucks.
posted by axiom at 2:23 PM on October 20, 2020 [29 favorites]
posted by axiom at 2:23 PM on October 20, 2020 [29 favorites]
Is it me, or does Spencer Cox subtly get a bit more zoomed-in screen time so as to appear literally the bigger man in this bipartisan message?
posted by Theiform at 2:24 PM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Theiform at 2:24 PM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
*Vomit*
posted by MartinWisse at 2:24 PM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by MartinWisse at 2:24 PM on October 20, 2020 [2 favorites]
...and then Spencer Cox followed it up with this bit of cowardice:
posted by The Tensor at 2:34 PM on October 20, 2020 [19 favorites]
I want to thank Chris for his willingness to record these PSA’s with me. No matter who wins the presidential election, we must all commit to a peaceful transfer of power and working together. So please vote and then let’s #standunited for a better America.Yes, very heartwarming. But remind me again, which party's presidential candidate has refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power? #notbothsidesjustone
posted by The Tensor at 2:34 PM on October 20, 2020 [19 favorites]
A Republican and a Democrat are running for governor of Utah...
...and the bartender says "What is this, a joke?"
🥁
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:43 PM on October 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
...and the bartender says "What is this, a joke?"
🥁
posted by Greg_Ace at 2:43 PM on October 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
Honestly Cox is so far ahead in the polls (50% to 25% roughly) there probably was nothing for either side to lose in doing this.
Cox can claim he's reaching across the isle blah blah, and maybe distinguish himself from the current Governor, who he possibly disagreed with about Covid response (which has frankly been inadequate in Utah but given the Utah economy remains strong - state unemployment around 5% - relative to the rest of the US the Republicans have largely had not a lot of meaningful dissent) and Petersen gets some name exposure for when he invariably loses and wants to try something else or just goes back to be a law professor.
(Not related but this is my favorite photo of the current Governor, with the State Epidemiologist, Dr. Angela Dunn and Dr. Emily Spivak looking on. Their body language pretty much says it all - When does this absolute potato of a Governor leave?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:56 PM on October 20, 2020 [17 favorites]
Cox can claim he's reaching across the isle blah blah, and maybe distinguish himself from the current Governor, who he possibly disagreed with about Covid response (which has frankly been inadequate in Utah but given the Utah economy remains strong - state unemployment around 5% - relative to the rest of the US the Republicans have largely had not a lot of meaningful dissent) and Petersen gets some name exposure for when he invariably loses and wants to try something else or just goes back to be a law professor.
(Not related but this is my favorite photo of the current Governor, with the State Epidemiologist, Dr. Angela Dunn and Dr. Emily Spivak looking on. Their body language pretty much says it all - When does this absolute potato of a Governor leave?
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:56 PM on October 20, 2020 [17 favorites]
Watched this with the sound off. The red guy seemed to get more closeup time, like 2-3x more than the blue guy, plus he's taller so red guy won over the blue guy. More sophisticated analysis at 11.
posted by diode at 3:02 PM on October 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by diode at 3:02 PM on October 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
Tough crowd, here. I see on Twitter flares of happiness and relief at this performance of civility, and a sense that perhaps there really will be a future and not just a Trump hellscape forever. People need this right now.
posted by jokeefe at 3:03 PM on October 20, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by jokeefe at 3:03 PM on October 20, 2020 [17 favorites]
You may have a point.
Another way to look at this is, the only thing worse than a Trump hellscape is some sh*tty piece of theatre enacted to pretend the hellscape is not so dire.. maybe.. and can't we all just make nice and probably not address any of the issues that got us here in the first place and leap from all the neck-deep awfulness and lasting damage wrought over the past 4 years (especially) to.. not even civility, but feigned civility?
I will take your word for whatever passes for "flares of happiness" on Twitter. People need to be real right now.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:09 PM on October 20, 2020 [10 favorites]
Another way to look at this is, the only thing worse than a Trump hellscape is some sh*tty piece of theatre enacted to pretend the hellscape is not so dire.. maybe.. and can't we all just make nice and probably not address any of the issues that got us here in the first place and leap from all the neck-deep awfulness and lasting damage wrought over the past 4 years (especially) to.. not even civility, but feigned civility?
I will take your word for whatever passes for "flares of happiness" on Twitter. People need to be real right now.
posted by elkevelvet at 3:09 PM on October 20, 2020 [10 favorites]
No idea who these two white guys are, but I'm assuming a Democrat in Utah is basically just a Republican in disguise.
Probably not too fair on Chris Peterson. He is an ex-Obama Special Advisor in the Office of the Director at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and focused on stopping predatory lending (although he was debt collector in a former role...which he claims lead him to becoming a law professor focused on consumer protection...so maybe doing some penance there). His UoU bio highlights his consumer advocacy.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:10 PM on October 20, 2020 [12 favorites]
Probably not too fair on Chris Peterson. He is an ex-Obama Special Advisor in the Office of the Director at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and focused on stopping predatory lending (although he was debt collector in a former role...which he claims lead him to becoming a law professor focused on consumer protection...so maybe doing some penance there). His UoU bio highlights his consumer advocacy.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:10 PM on October 20, 2020 [12 favorites]
Oh well that tracks, Obama being famous for repeatedly trying to be bipartisan despite getting absolutely kicked in the shins every time he tried it. But, it's 2020 now, that sort of peculiarly Dem naivete seems so very quaint after 4 years of Republicans gleefully setting the world on fire. Am not falling for it.
posted by axiom at 3:21 PM on October 20, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by axiom at 3:21 PM on October 20, 2020 [15 favorites]
"Why can't we all just get along" comes out of one's mouth a lot easier when you're white and surrounded by whiteness.
What's the middle ground between "I like everyone to have health care and education" and "I want to put children in cages and think liberals should be murdered?" One party is calling for violence if they don't win, there are no both sides to the issue.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:24 PM on October 20, 2020 [15 favorites]
What's the middle ground between "I like everyone to have health care and education" and "I want to put children in cages and think liberals should be murdered?" One party is calling for violence if they don't win, there are no both sides to the issue.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 3:24 PM on October 20, 2020 [15 favorites]
No idea who these two white guys are, but I'm assuming a Democrat in Utah is basically just a Republican in disguise.
There's different kinds of Democrats in Utah.
Some of them are probably every bit the radical lefty you are, having lived with the something approaching the recent national level of Republican crazy for decades and being infuriated with it.
Others do bear a lot of resemblance to moderate Republicans, which you can criticize, but I guarantee you is an improvement over the GOP John Birch jerkoff club that gets together to work each other up about how the problem with Orin Hatch was that he was basically a socialist.
The first kind can win localized office in some parts of SLC metro, maybe some bits of Weber County. The second kind has been known to occasionally win a congressional district at times in the last 30 years.
Since Peterson is going to lose, it's hard to tell which kind he is.
posted by wildblueyonder at 3:35 PM on October 20, 2020 [16 favorites]
There's different kinds of Democrats in Utah.
Some of them are probably every bit the radical lefty you are, having lived with the something approaching the recent national level of Republican crazy for decades and being infuriated with it.
Others do bear a lot of resemblance to moderate Republicans, which you can criticize, but I guarantee you is an improvement over the GOP John Birch jerkoff club that gets together to work each other up about how the problem with Orin Hatch was that he was basically a socialist.
The first kind can win localized office in some parts of SLC metro, maybe some bits of Weber County. The second kind has been known to occasionally win a congressional district at times in the last 30 years.
Since Peterson is going to lose, it's hard to tell which kind he is.
posted by wildblueyonder at 3:35 PM on October 20, 2020 [16 favorites]
Getting serious "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" vibes, if the PC was trying to deconstruct the administrative state
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:38 PM on October 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:38 PM on October 20, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think we can all rest a bit easier in these difficult times knowing that no matter what happens on November 3rd, both of these guys are gonna be *just fine*.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:50 PM on October 20, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:50 PM on October 20, 2020 [5 favorites]
How dare you.
Obviously it is the Mac who would turn fascist.
posted by Lonnrot at 3:59 PM on October 20, 2020 [11 favorites]
Obviously it is the Mac who would turn fascist.
posted by Lonnrot at 3:59 PM on October 20, 2020 [11 favorites]
"Why can't we all just get along" comes out of one's mouth a lot easier when you're white and surrounded by whiteness.
I understand and agree with the point you're making, but just because it's important to stay grounded in history, let's recall that "Can we all get along?" entered the popular political discourse as a quote from Rodney King.
posted by The Tensor at 4:25 PM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
I understand and agree with the point you're making, but just because it's important to stay grounded in history, let's recall that "Can we all get along?" entered the popular political discourse as a quote from Rodney King.
posted by The Tensor at 4:25 PM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
It's impossible to understand this ad without understanding Utah, a highly homogenous state where a significant number of people's daily lives are heavily influenced by their church. An unusual church at that, a tiny minority religion in America with a majority in their state. This "we're all nice folks here and we get along" is just so earnestly Mormon. Not saying that's a bad thing, I'm nostalgic for that ideal too. I've just never been allowed to be part of it.
Shame that the party that's going to win the governorship of Utah is the party hell-bent on destroying functioning government in this country and enabling white supremacy. A party that's corrupted itself in service to Trump. (Although props to Utah's most famous politician for mostly standing up against Trump, one of the few Republicans who has done so.) Also shame that the LDS ideal has been highly exclusive to people who don't quite fall in line, particularly LGBT people like me who have been actively harmed by decades of hatred and isolation by their church culture. Although that's showing signs of changing.
As for Chris Peterson's chances, lol, when asked for their opinion of Peterson in a recent survey by Y2 Analytics, about 63% said they were unaware of him.. That linked article is a good profile of the candidate, btw.
posted by Nelson at 4:30 PM on October 20, 2020 [10 favorites]
Shame that the party that's going to win the governorship of Utah is the party hell-bent on destroying functioning government in this country and enabling white supremacy. A party that's corrupted itself in service to Trump. (Although props to Utah's most famous politician for mostly standing up against Trump, one of the few Republicans who has done so.) Also shame that the LDS ideal has been highly exclusive to people who don't quite fall in line, particularly LGBT people like me who have been actively harmed by decades of hatred and isolation by their church culture. Although that's showing signs of changing.
As for Chris Peterson's chances, lol, when asked for their opinion of Peterson in a recent survey by Y2 Analytics, about 63% said they were unaware of him.. That linked article is a good profile of the candidate, btw.
posted by Nelson at 4:30 PM on October 20, 2020 [10 favorites]
@fMRI_guy: As we say in Germany, if there’s a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with 11 Nazis.
I'd say something similar applies if you campaign with a Republican in 2020.
And please note: Godwin's Law has been rescinded.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:17 PM on October 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
I'd say something similar applies if you campaign with a Republican in 2020.
And please note: Godwin's Law has been rescinded.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:17 PM on October 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
I liked the campaign video and it made me happy. Thanks for posting it, dfm500.
posted by brainwane at 6:03 PM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 6:03 PM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
How much of a god damn sucker do you have to be to share a cordial handshake with a guy whose party is trying to stop your vote from being counted? What are you saying to black people and gay people and muslims and mexicans and trans people and everybody else when you say, "Gosh, I can be buddies with this guy who would be happy to see you in prison or dead if it'd score him a few political points"? Sorry, no sale.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:43 PM on October 20, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 6:43 PM on October 20, 2020 [13 favorites]
Although props to Utah's most famous politician for mostly standing up against Trump
While he definitely deserves some props because some of his "standing up" has been real, I do object somewhat: the majority of his "standing up" to Trump has been because Trump isn't sufficiently polite, and he managed to even couch that in both-sides'ism. He comes across as mostly irritated that Trump is a classless rube, not because he actually disagrees on most of the policies.
...like, it's OK to basically murder children in jails, as long as you speak nicely, act polite and pretend to listen to your political opponents while you do it?
posted by aramaic at 6:54 PM on October 20, 2020 [4 favorites]
While he definitely deserves some props because some of his "standing up" has been real, I do object somewhat: the majority of his "standing up" to Trump has been because Trump isn't sufficiently polite, and he managed to even couch that in both-sides'ism. He comes across as mostly irritated that Trump is a classless rube, not because he actually disagrees on most of the policies.
...like, it's OK to basically murder children in jails, as long as you speak nicely, act polite and pretend to listen to your political opponents while you do it?
posted by aramaic at 6:54 PM on October 20, 2020 [4 favorites]
perhaps there really will be a future and not just a Trump hellscape forever. People need this right now.
To believe that there's "good" Republicans who will put country first? Because putting a Republican in charge of the FBI as a show of "we're all Americans" worked out so well.
There's already rumors that Biden is considering Jeff Flake and John Kasich for cabinet position. While they're still just rumors, to hell with that. You want to make sure that Gen Z stops voting because "both sides are the same?" 'Cause that's how you do it.
People, specifically minorities, are literally risking their lives to vote in states with substantial voter suppression so to clasp hands with someone who's a shoe-in in a super conservative state and will continue to tow the party line, even if they fuss that Trump is a little crude for their taste, doesn't impress. But it does draw attention away from the voting minorities standing in line for hours to replace it with a feel-good Twitter jam over two well off white dudes shaking hands.
The Republicans have told you they're a snake for years. Believe them.
posted by Candleman at 8:11 PM on October 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
To believe that there's "good" Republicans who will put country first? Because putting a Republican in charge of the FBI as a show of "we're all Americans" worked out so well.
There's already rumors that Biden is considering Jeff Flake and John Kasich for cabinet position. While they're still just rumors, to hell with that. You want to make sure that Gen Z stops voting because "both sides are the same?" 'Cause that's how you do it.
People, specifically minorities, are literally risking their lives to vote in states with substantial voter suppression so to clasp hands with someone who's a shoe-in in a super conservative state and will continue to tow the party line, even if they fuss that Trump is a little crude for their taste, doesn't impress. But it does draw attention away from the voting minorities standing in line for hours to replace it with a feel-good Twitter jam over two well off white dudes shaking hands.
The Republicans have told you they're a snake for years. Believe them.
posted by Candleman at 8:11 PM on October 20, 2020 [8 favorites]
What if they had matching Mitt Romney barbecue mitts.
posted by clavdivs at 8:12 PM on October 20, 2020
posted by clavdivs at 8:12 PM on October 20, 2020
the only thing worse than a Trump hellscape is some sh*tty piece of theatre enacted to pretend the hellscape is not so dire
I'm wondering if there's significant militia presence in Utah and they're worried about post-election violence maybe? Can't really understand it otherwise.
posted by corb at 8:53 PM on October 20, 2020
I'm wondering if there's significant militia presence in Utah and they're worried about post-election violence maybe? Can't really understand it otherwise.
posted by corb at 8:53 PM on October 20, 2020
It has been over 13 years since I lived in Utah, so I can’t honestly comment on the current state of politics but my experience from living there for 8 years was galvanizing for me. Utah (Salt Lake, in particular) has some cool-as-fuck people living there, even though they’re shit on by the dominant culture on the regular. You really have to keep your chin up as a progressive in that state and being LGBTQ is a whole other level of courage.
Honestly, a Utah Republican appearing in a commercial where he isn’t accusing the Democrat of being a baby-killing socialist devil-worshipper and is actually being civil to him and telling others they should do the same is kind of mind-blowing to me.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:17 PM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
Honestly, a Utah Republican appearing in a commercial where he isn’t accusing the Democrat of being a baby-killing socialist devil-worshipper and is actually being civil to him and telling others they should do the same is kind of mind-blowing to me.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 10:17 PM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]
I've got to say I'm very put off by the response here to this ad. Yes it's quite naive, possibly totally disingenuous, and definitely out of place.
But you know what kind of politician feeds on a complete lack of civility, of even trying to play nice, of politics as entirely as sports team?
So fine don't give Cox a cookie, and of course no you don't have any reason to vote for him. But if you need to say something against him find something real. I know nothing about Utah politics and this is the first time I've ever heard his name so if he's been attacking everyone with a (D) after their name for years or even he's been asked about Trump and totally whiffed let us know. But the only quote I found that jumped out at me was from his Wiki page in response to the Orlando nightclub shooting.
How did you feel when you heard that 49 people had been gunned down by a self-proclaimed terrorist? That’s the easy question. Here is the hard one: Did that feeling change when you found out the shooting was at a gay bar at 2 a.m. in the morning? If that feeling changed, then we are doing something wrong
That's not entirely shitty....
posted by cirhosis at 11:27 PM on October 20, 2020 [9 favorites]
But you know what kind of politician feeds on a complete lack of civility, of even trying to play nice, of politics as entirely as sports team?
So fine don't give Cox a cookie, and of course no you don't have any reason to vote for him. But if you need to say something against him find something real. I know nothing about Utah politics and this is the first time I've ever heard his name so if he's been attacking everyone with a (D) after their name for years or even he's been asked about Trump and totally whiffed let us know. But the only quote I found that jumped out at me was from his Wiki page in response to the Orlando nightclub shooting.
How did you feel when you heard that 49 people had been gunned down by a self-proclaimed terrorist? That’s the easy question. Here is the hard one: Did that feeling change when you found out the shooting was at a gay bar at 2 a.m. in the morning? If that feeling changed, then we are doing something wrong
That's not entirely shitty....
posted by cirhosis at 11:27 PM on October 20, 2020 [9 favorites]
It's kind of like with microagressions: absent the history and context, some things seem harmless. History and context are never absent, but some people like to downplay them in order to make seekers of justice look like the real aggressors. People are right to be angry about things that, in isolation, seem minor.
In this particular case, while the sentiment is admirable, civility hasn't and won't restore workers' rights, dismantle the police state, enfranchise the poor and people of colour or fund early childhood education. When society is in a state of desperation and precarity, this mutual masturbation session feels like an insult.
posted by klanawa at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2020 [5 favorites]
In this particular case, while the sentiment is admirable, civility hasn't and won't restore workers' rights, dismantle the police state, enfranchise the poor and people of colour or fund early childhood education. When society is in a state of desperation and precarity, this mutual masturbation session feels like an insult.
posted by klanawa at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2020 [5 favorites]
I was curious about Cox's actual positions so I looked up his website:
He hasn't earned civility.
posted by zymil at 4:06 AM on October 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
Support and Strengthen Utah’s FamiliesI think you can get a pretty clear idea from that what his position on rolling back gay marriage is going to be with a 6-3 conservative supreme court. He also voted against expanding Medicaid in 2013 in addition to the 2A and abortion restriction type votes you would expect.
The family is the foundation of American society. Parents—not governments—have the most direct and immediate influence on a child’s health, education and welfare. Our communities, schools, government and society will never succeed if we don’t have strong and vibrant families.
Spencer believes government policies should support and strengthen the family unit. No government program, no amount of public spending, no social intervention can completely offset a failed or broken home.
He hasn't earned civility.
posted by zymil at 4:06 AM on October 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
Is it actually true that he opposes gay marriage? I get that talking about family is traditionally an anti-SSM dog whistle, but here in Canada, the idea that same-sex marriage is incompatible with the nuclear family has pretty much completely evaporated to the point that being "pro-family" wouldn't necessarily register as a dog whistle to me anymore.
posted by jamincan at 5:51 AM on October 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by jamincan at 5:51 AM on October 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
I accept that this video can feel like an insult, and I definitely don't want to suggest that anyone is wrong to feel that way. But I like the idea of some de-escalation in the constant fight.
And yeah it's too early to talk seriously about any kind of forgiveness or getting along. And I also believe 100% that most of these assholes need to be held accountable for the shit they've either done or happily let happen.
But it still does sadden me to see people who I agree with on the majority of things saying things that feel like reflexive judgement of the "other side" ... isn't that something we call out when 'they' do it?
I don't know what the answer is... and I don't want to shame people for what is genuine anger and pain or compare it to the often obvious performative anger and pain that Republican's have been running with for decades.
posted by cirhosis at 7:19 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
And yeah it's too early to talk seriously about any kind of forgiveness or getting along. And I also believe 100% that most of these assholes need to be held accountable for the shit they've either done or happily let happen.
But it still does sadden me to see people who I agree with on the majority of things saying things that feel like reflexive judgement of the "other side" ... isn't that something we call out when 'they' do it?
I don't know what the answer is... and I don't want to shame people for what is genuine anger and pain or compare it to the often obvious performative anger and pain that Republican's have been running with for decades.
posted by cirhosis at 7:19 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm assuming a Democrat in Utah is basically just a Republican in disguise.
I’m a Democrat in Utah, and it’s a pretty miserable existence, but I’m suuuuuper tired of defending that existence against remarks like this.
We have to hold our noses a lot, yeah, because the GOP can get away with whatever it wants here. We have to make compromises. We don’t get to weaponize ideological purity tests, because the majority called dibs on them back in the 1800s.
“Both sides are probably just as bad so why bother?” is a popular mating call among our libertarians, but I’ve never seen it accomplish a damn thing during election season.
posted by armeowda at 7:41 AM on October 21, 2020 [14 favorites]
I’m a Democrat in Utah, and it’s a pretty miserable existence, but I’m suuuuuper tired of defending that existence against remarks like this.
We have to hold our noses a lot, yeah, because the GOP can get away with whatever it wants here. We have to make compromises. We don’t get to weaponize ideological purity tests, because the majority called dibs on them back in the 1800s.
“Both sides are probably just as bad so why bother?” is a popular mating call among our libertarians, but I’ve never seen it accomplish a damn thing during election season.
posted by armeowda at 7:41 AM on October 21, 2020 [14 favorites]
Is it actually true that he opposes gay marriage?
I'm not from Utah and don't know more about Spencer Cox than the few minutes I've spent looking online. But you don't have to look very far to find his speech from 2016 after the Pulse nightclub massacre. That tragedy seems to have really affected him in a way it affected very few politicians, Republican or Democrat. Speaking of how he treated LGBT people in the past, he said
But LDS seems to be going through a real change on LGBT people. LDS spent a lot of money trying to prevent gay marriage rights, it was awful and offensive. But after they lost that fight a lot of their members had a quiet sort of pushback. Arguing maybe being anti-gay-marriage was a harmful opinion, and contrary to LDS' very ideals of supporting families, and also just out of date. I don't think the church is about to do a 180 and full embrace queers or anything, but attitudes are definitely shifting. (Again; I'm an outsider and am only repeating what I read. Corrections from people who know more are most welcome.)
posted by Nelson at 8:03 AM on October 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'm not from Utah and don't know more about Spencer Cox than the few minutes I've spent looking online. But you don't have to look very far to find his speech from 2016 after the Pulse nightclub massacre. That tragedy seems to have really affected him in a way it affected very few politicians, Republican or Democrat. Speaking of how he treated LGBT people in the past, he said
I will forever regret not treating them with the kindness, dignity and respect — the love — that they deserved. For that, I sincerely and humbly apologizeAs Lieutenant Governor I don't think he's had many chances to make a position on LGBT rights known. But since 2016 he keeps giving pro-acceptance speeches and statements. At the 2018 LoveLoud festival, for instance. Or in 2019 apologizing for 'gay therapy' legislation. Or this year, interviewed by Qsaltlake. He seems to be making way more pro-LGBT effort than most politicians, Democrat or Republican. And I think that's particularly remarkable in Utah.
But LDS seems to be going through a real change on LGBT people. LDS spent a lot of money trying to prevent gay marriage rights, it was awful and offensive. But after they lost that fight a lot of their members had a quiet sort of pushback. Arguing maybe being anti-gay-marriage was a harmful opinion, and contrary to LDS' very ideals of supporting families, and also just out of date. I don't think the church is about to do a 180 and full embrace queers or anything, but attitudes are definitely shifting. (Again; I'm an outsider and am only repeating what I read. Corrections from people who know more are most welcome.)
posted by Nelson at 8:03 AM on October 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
Spencer Cox has an impressive record (for Utah Republican men) for sticking out his neck on behalf of the LGBTQ community.
His record on handling the pandemic is far more disappointing; he's effectively stood on the sidelines while Gov. Herbert explained why he didn't want to govern about it, misquoting Yogi Berra and mispronouncing "epidemiology" for spice.
Peterson has a plan for it, and because that plan involves respecting science and giving a damn about people other than your own family/faith, he's very unpopular outside blue Salt Lake City.
This is why I bristle when people imply that by appearing with Cox and failing to demonstrate sexy, Trumpian contempt, Peterson must be some kind of milquetoast DINO. He's not, but even if he were, he'd be too "radical" to get elected.
posted by armeowda at 8:30 AM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
His record on handling the pandemic is far more disappointing; he's effectively stood on the sidelines while Gov. Herbert explained why he didn't want to govern about it, misquoting Yogi Berra and mispronouncing "epidemiology" for spice.
Peterson has a plan for it, and because that plan involves respecting science and giving a damn about people other than your own family/faith, he's very unpopular outside blue Salt Lake City.
This is why I bristle when people imply that by appearing with Cox and failing to demonstrate sexy, Trumpian contempt, Peterson must be some kind of milquetoast DINO. He's not, but even if he were, he'd be too "radical" to get elected.
posted by armeowda at 8:30 AM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
I voted for Cox in the R primary. The options back then were Jon Huntsman / Mayor of Provo Kafusi for lt, Cox/Henderson, some CEO/former nutjob congressman Bob Bishop, and super Trumper Hughes. I juggled between Huntsman and Cox, and went with Cox given Huntsman's propensity to disappear at the next promotion opportunity and we'd get stuck with 'veto a mask mandate' Kafusi, the same way we got stuck with our current Governor when Huntsman fucked off to China.
Since then, Cox has been supposedly in charge of the state COVID taskforce which is a disaster. Utah is #5 on the nation's worst hotspots, we're turning up field hospitals as all major city ICUs are 100%+ capacity, etc etc. Any Democrat on a statewide ticket won't win, no matter how bland they are. I threw my vote at Peterson but I suspect this ad will give him a swath of name recognition he wouldn't get otherwise. Cox has been very "why can't we all just get along" for a long time and it's the typical smarmy Mormon attitude. See Romney for a similar tact.
All of this is to say he's better than the options we had, and that's not saying much.
posted by msbutah at 12:10 PM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
Since then, Cox has been supposedly in charge of the state COVID taskforce which is a disaster. Utah is #5 on the nation's worst hotspots, we're turning up field hospitals as all major city ICUs are 100%+ capacity, etc etc. Any Democrat on a statewide ticket won't win, no matter how bland they are. I threw my vote at Peterson but I suspect this ad will give him a swath of name recognition he wouldn't get otherwise. Cox has been very "why can't we all just get along" for a long time and it's the typical smarmy Mormon attitude. See Romney for a similar tact.
All of this is to say he's better than the options we had, and that's not saying much.
posted by msbutah at 12:10 PM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
Another way to look at this is, the only thing worse than a Trump hellscape is some sh*tty piece of theatre enacted to pretend the hellscape is not so dire.. maybe.. and can't we all just make nice and probably not address any of the issues that got us here in the first place and leap from all the neck-deep awfulness and lasting damage wrought over the past 4 years (especially) to.. not even civility, but feigned civility?
As a Canadian who is living with a (dual) American citizen and who thought I had an understanding of just how terrifying and horrible conditions are in the US right now, perhaps I don't really get just how terrifying and horrible conditions are. *steps back*
posted by jokeefe at 1:09 PM on October 21, 2020
As a Canadian who is living with a (dual) American citizen and who thought I had an understanding of just how terrifying and horrible conditions are in the US right now, perhaps I don't really get just how terrifying and horrible conditions are. *steps back*
posted by jokeefe at 1:09 PM on October 21, 2020
I feel like the "shitty theatre" interpretation ignores the fact that Cox telling his constituents to respect the legitimacy of the election is actually kind of controversial. Because Utah is that backwards.
See, Cox is the shoo-in because he got the GOP nomination. He can't lose. But Trump is VERY popular here, because Utahns are suckers for a good scam; bad manners are fine if you appeal to greed; trust is high and savvy is low. Trump has spent the last four years trying to delegitimize the election, and people here worship him for it.
Cox saying dude, no, be nice, respect the outcome, look how I'm not even screaming insults at this nerdy law professor! is personally, not politically, risky. Contradicting Trump sends a certain faction screaming for the edges. There are people who will defect to the Constitution Party over this; they won't be enough to put Peterson in the lead. But the kind of people who send death threats because Q/Proud Boys told them to? Or who show up at government buildings with guns and no masks?
They're gonna be upset.
In short, it won't cost Cox the election, but his personal safety could be another matter. In one very specific way, this was kinda brave.
posted by armeowda at 2:03 PM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
See, Cox is the shoo-in because he got the GOP nomination. He can't lose. But Trump is VERY popular here, because Utahns are suckers for a good scam; bad manners are fine if you appeal to greed; trust is high and savvy is low. Trump has spent the last four years trying to delegitimize the election, and people here worship him for it.
Cox saying dude, no, be nice, respect the outcome, look how I'm not even screaming insults at this nerdy law professor! is personally, not politically, risky. Contradicting Trump sends a certain faction screaming for the edges. There are people who will defect to the Constitution Party over this; they won't be enough to put Peterson in the lead. But the kind of people who send death threats because Q/Proud Boys told them to? Or who show up at government buildings with guns and no masks?
They're gonna be upset.
In short, it won't cost Cox the election, but his personal safety could be another matter. In one very specific way, this was kinda brave.
posted by armeowda at 2:03 PM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
But it still does sadden me to see people who I agree with on the majority of things saying things that feel like reflexive judgement of the "other side" ... isn't that something we call out when 'they' do it?
The difference is the average Metafilter commenter is upset at Republicans for a multitude of very legitimate reasons, whereas much of the anger aimed at Democrats for electing a black man and making health care a little easier and accessible. I'll grant that some are also upset about not banning abortion, which while I don't agree with it is at least a legitimate complaint. It's a false equivalency to say that both sides need to equally reach across the isle when one side has been actively driving off multiple cliffs.
“Both sides are probably just as bad so why bother?” is a popular mating call among our libertarians, but I’ve never seen it accomplish a damn thing during election season.
It's not an uncommon sentiment in the younger generations who skew left but then don't bother to vote, at least in part because of the cynicism.
posted by Candleman at 2:12 PM on October 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
The difference is the average Metafilter commenter is upset at Republicans for a multitude of very legitimate reasons, whereas much of the anger aimed at Democrats for electing a black man and making health care a little easier and accessible. I'll grant that some are also upset about not banning abortion, which while I don't agree with it is at least a legitimate complaint. It's a false equivalency to say that both sides need to equally reach across the isle when one side has been actively driving off multiple cliffs.
“Both sides are probably just as bad so why bother?” is a popular mating call among our libertarians, but I’ve never seen it accomplish a damn thing during election season.
It's not an uncommon sentiment in the younger generations who skew left but then don't bother to vote, at least in part because of the cynicism.
posted by Candleman at 2:12 PM on October 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
We talk about dog whistles when it comes to subtle allusions to racism, homophobia and other bad things. What do we call the opposite, when something is shouted at everyone in order to catch the target audience? Whale oboes?
Nobody in here thinks that the call to respect the result and commit to a peaceful transition of power is needed for Democrats. On the other hand, there's the worrying possibility it could be needed for Republicans. Assume that worst case scenario, where an angry unhinged Trump's holed up and refusing to accept defeat, trying to use his base to cling to power. Cox has preemptively put himself in conflict with all of that.
I'm not saying he should be canonised or something, but I think coming out with this probably falls on the positive side of things.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
Nobody in here thinks that the call to respect the result and commit to a peaceful transition of power is needed for Democrats. On the other hand, there's the worrying possibility it could be needed for Republicans. Assume that worst case scenario, where an angry unhinged Trump's holed up and refusing to accept defeat, trying to use his base to cling to power. Cox has preemptively put himself in conflict with all of that.
I'm not saying he should be canonised or something, but I think coming out with this probably falls on the positive side of things.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:19 PM on October 21, 2020 [5 favorites]
I hereby pledge to integrate “whale oboes” into my personal lexicon.
posted by armeowda at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 4:46 PM on October 21, 2020 [2 favorites]
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It's at the point where I'm deeply suspicious of anyone acting agreeable. US Politics has broken me.
posted by phunniemee at 2:02 PM on October 20, 2020 [6 favorites]