MTA Map goes digital
October 21, 2020 9:28 AM Subscribe
NY MTA has created a digital version of their map with the company Work & Co (who did the work for free. There is a cool video that really explains what was done.
Hey now I can get hopelessly lost while being accosted by the stench of urine and people with no boundaries, but I never have to leave my couch!
Come to think of it, I already had this functionality.
posted by not_on_display at 9:46 AM on October 21, 2020
Come to think of it, I already had this functionality.
posted by not_on_display at 9:46 AM on October 21, 2020
Worst. Map. Ever. The MTA stepped in the right direction with its new interactive subway map. But it also stepped in shit.
The idea was simple: combine the clean design of the Vignelli map with the real geography of the city so that a rider can zoom in and out to fine tune their route.posted by 1970s Antihero at 10:03 AM on October 21, 2020 [4 favorites]
The result: the worst of both worlds. The new Live Map isn’t a bad idea, it’s just a terrible execution.
What I really want in a digital map is to be able to touch or click on one point on the map, and then touch or click on another point, and then have the map quickly highlight all the routes that go from the vicinity of A to the vicinity of B.
Also nice (for my bus-dependent life, at least) would be the ability to select a point and just see all the points I can get to from within a certain radius of that point (not a specific stop) with no transfers. But that's more a bonus for the purposes of exploration. The first one is what would be really useful on a day-to-day level.
There must be maps that do this (right?!), but never anywhere I've lived.
posted by trig at 10:07 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also nice (for my bus-dependent life, at least) would be the ability to select a point and just see all the points I can get to from within a certain radius of that point (not a specific stop) with no transfers. But that's more a bonus for the purposes of exploration. The first one is what would be really useful on a day-to-day level.
There must be maps that do this (right?!), but never anywhere I've lived.
posted by trig at 10:07 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
It’s pretty shaky on an iPad on WiFi in my apartment, I don’t imagine it will be more stable on a subway platform over cellular. Still, considering the MTA’s online forays so far this at least looks like they might have hired someone who studied information design within the last century. I imagine this will be helpful though and I’m glad it exists.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 10:10 AM on October 21, 2020
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 10:10 AM on October 21, 2020
I lived in NYC for five years and hated nearly everything about. However, I do miss a couple things: Easy access to excellent bagels (natch) and the opportunity to study and ponder the MTA subway map nearly every day. (I had this cockamamie idea for a Grand Unifying Subway Line -- I called it "The X Train" -- that linked every borough. It would only have cost about $8 trillion.) The map a completely fascinating document, and I applaud the continuing efforts to make it more useful and elegant, even if they may be imperfect. I can't imagine the complexity of that project.
One question I have is whether the new map's digital-only identity will further the digital divide for those who can't or don't have smartphones.
posted by Dr. Wu at 10:24 AM on October 21, 2020
One question I have is whether the new map's digital-only identity will further the digital divide for those who can't or don't have smartphones.
posted by Dr. Wu at 10:24 AM on October 21, 2020
I've worked with Work and Co., I don't remember what project but they did pretty good work. Lets get some things out of the way:
who did the work for free
Haha, the article mentions this several times. I've done all kinds of work for free and not for good causes. Coca-Cola? Honda? If the work was going to go to Cannes it was a write-off. If the work was for a large client, write-off. This happens all the time in advertising to the point where you'd have had people bidding to pay to do the work. In advertising 90% of what you're doing is really, really boring. Ironically the cool stuff is what brings in work, so how do you get to do cool stuff that showcases what you can do? Give it away for free. "Your MTA map was great! Really cool, okay now build us a boring corporate website while we argue about a meaningless mega nav that our giant medical corporation insists on having and then keep adding things and layers until the nav becomes unusable."
The maps really cool and all, and I like how you can see the trains gliding in all their 80% opacity glory, but it is a beast on my latest iPhone Pro. The problem with creative advertising is that you have raised people to ask for the impossible. Here's a really good video explaining what went into creating a seemingly simple commercial. A couple of comments the guy makes shows what has traditionally made advertising so slick. More than once he goes, "Are you sure you want it to spin? I'll need to do it with well timed robots," and the answer is yes. Works well with media where the consumption is predetermined like television. A more complicated ad to produce and the viewer doesn't know. With digital media, that doesn't work the same but the mentality is still there. Thus you get a cool looking map that looks great on the video as the video matches the creative direction but doesn't look like that when actually using it.
THAT SAID, all the cool stuff like the trains moving doesn't matter. Vignelli’s point was that an underground rider doesn't care about the above ground topography. Likewise I don't care if the trains are moving. If I know where trains are, and I know where they'll be in a platform the train doesn't matter at all. Is the A Express backed up? I don't care about watching trains move, tell me what station to enter, on the NE corner of what block and tell me what train to look for once I'm on the platform and what stop to listen to get off on. To reduce my anxiety say "5 stops, second to last stop is Water St" so when I hear Water I know I didn't enter a train vortex and totally get on the wrong train, I'm relieved and prepared to get off.
Oddly I don't think AR is really that useful but I got turned around so often in stations I didn't know and if I popped up in midtown I had no bearings, this is a case where wearing stupid AR glasses and having giant video game arrows would really help.
posted by geoff. at 10:31 AM on October 21, 2020 [6 favorites]
who did the work for free
Haha, the article mentions this several times. I've done all kinds of work for free and not for good causes. Coca-Cola? Honda? If the work was going to go to Cannes it was a write-off. If the work was for a large client, write-off. This happens all the time in advertising to the point where you'd have had people bidding to pay to do the work. In advertising 90% of what you're doing is really, really boring. Ironically the cool stuff is what brings in work, so how do you get to do cool stuff that showcases what you can do? Give it away for free. "Your MTA map was great! Really cool, okay now build us a boring corporate website while we argue about a meaningless mega nav that our giant medical corporation insists on having and then keep adding things and layers until the nav becomes unusable."
The maps really cool and all, and I like how you can see the trains gliding in all their 80% opacity glory, but it is a beast on my latest iPhone Pro. The problem with creative advertising is that you have raised people to ask for the impossible. Here's a really good video explaining what went into creating a seemingly simple commercial. A couple of comments the guy makes shows what has traditionally made advertising so slick. More than once he goes, "Are you sure you want it to spin? I'll need to do it with well timed robots," and the answer is yes. Works well with media where the consumption is predetermined like television. A more complicated ad to produce and the viewer doesn't know. With digital media, that doesn't work the same but the mentality is still there. Thus you get a cool looking map that looks great on the video as the video matches the creative direction but doesn't look like that when actually using it.
THAT SAID, all the cool stuff like the trains moving doesn't matter. Vignelli’s point was that an underground rider doesn't care about the above ground topography. Likewise I don't care if the trains are moving. If I know where trains are, and I know where they'll be in a platform the train doesn't matter at all. Is the A Express backed up? I don't care about watching trains move, tell me what station to enter, on the NE corner of what block and tell me what train to look for once I'm on the platform and what stop to listen to get off on. To reduce my anxiety say "5 stops, second to last stop is Water St" so when I hear Water I know I didn't enter a train vortex and totally get on the wrong train, I'm relieved and prepared to get off.
Oddly I don't think AR is really that useful but I got turned around so often in stations I didn't know and if I popped up in midtown I had no bearings, this is a case where wearing stupid AR glasses and having giant video game arrows would really help.
posted by geoff. at 10:31 AM on October 21, 2020 [6 favorites]
Worst. Map. Ever. The MTA stepped in the right direction with its new interactive subway map. But it also stepped in shit.
I don't understand the critique that the subway lines on this new map app aren't drawn to follow their actual paths. The only things that matter are the stops, the lines in between exist only to give a quick visual way to tie stops together.
I don't care about watching trains move, tell me what station to enter, on the NE corner of what block and tell me what train to look for once I'm on the platform and what stop to listen to get off on.
Unlike you, most people want to know exactly when their train is due to arrive, just as they want to know when their Uber will arrive. Giving time cues is okay, but seeing exactly where the train is located is a much quicker way to anticipate its arrival.
posted by schoolgirl report at 10:44 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don't understand the critique that the subway lines on this new map app aren't drawn to follow their actual paths. The only things that matter are the stops, the lines in between exist only to give a quick visual way to tie stops together.
I don't care about watching trains move, tell me what station to enter, on the NE corner of what block and tell me what train to look for once I'm on the platform and what stop to listen to get off on.
Unlike you, most people want to know exactly when their train is due to arrive, just as they want to know when their Uber will arrive. Giving time cues is okay, but seeing exactly where the train is located is a much quicker way to anticipate its arrival.
posted by schoolgirl report at 10:44 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
The fan on my desktop ramped up hard as soon as I loaded it. Just scrolling around it spikes my CPU usage. This is a decent PC!
Also, the lines are a thin, spidery mess. Oof.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:46 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
Also, the lines are a thin, spidery mess. Oof.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:46 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I played with the map yesterday and it was running much smoother than today. Server load issues maybe?
I think it's really nifty and it makes me miss the city.
posted by gwint at 10:47 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think it's really nifty and it makes me miss the city.
posted by gwint at 10:47 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don't understand the critique that the subway lines on this new map app aren't drawn to follow their actual paths. The only things that matter are the stops, the lines in between exist only to give a quick visual way to tie stops together.
The critique in the linked blog post is that they tried to split the difference. On the one hand, there's a geographic base layer that's aligned with physical reality. On the other, they've simplified the overlay of the train paths. The result is... something odd.
The critique in the linked blog post is that they tried to split the difference. On the one hand, there's a geographic base layer that's aligned with physical reality. On the other, they've simplified the overlay of the train paths. The result is... something odd.
But what the… “designers”… did here was go one more step down the rabbit hole and instead try to connect each station with lines more in keeping with the Vignelli scheme. Tried to is really a stretch because none of the curves and angles actually are in keeping with the Vignelli vernacular. This is obvious since you the diagram and map cannot exist in the same geometry. But even worse is the fact that it looks like the designers chose to draw certain subway lines in the wrong places for no particular reason with curves in seemingly random locations.posted by BungaDunga at 10:53 AM on October 21, 2020
I love this map and it's awesome. It also makes me miss NYC so much! I'm working on a project studying bus routes in baltimore and mapping them in various ways so this is especially interesting for me right now. Thanks so much for this post!
posted by capnsue at 11:17 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by capnsue at 11:17 AM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
Unlike you, most people want to know exactly when their train is due to arrive, just as they want to know when their Uber will arrive.
Sure I get that but this is a fixed track and I guess what I'm saying is that if I have a performance hit for drawing the little trains everywhere vs just giving me the time I'd take the time.
Simply, no matter how cool this is as a proof of concept it is unusable due to severe performance issues.
And whoa! Someone open this in Chrome? I have 107 (!) errors!
I was going to go on a rant giving Columbus Circle as an example of form over function. You have a perfectly good map of the city overlaying the stop but you're using Vignelli's map, e.g., the stops give no indication of where they leave the riders. It is actually worse than having any information it gives the indication that you just magically appear somewhere above Columbus Circle and I know some of those stops are a block or so away as that's just how big some of these platforms are.
Tufte explores this in depth. The basic point being that if I'm on an iPhone and I'm trying to get from point A to point B how I get there might be entertaining to look at but not really the best way to get me there. To give you the Uber example, I'm presented with my current location and my only real input is my future location. I then receive the time to arrival for the driver. When I'm in the car I'm given the route but that's just as much for be to stare at so I don't have to talk to anyone. The key points is that it presents you just enough and not more than what you need to do to accomplish the trip.
This is just kind of a mess that again, looks great on film. But a lot of UX looks better on film than in reality.
posted by geoff. at 11:22 AM on October 21, 2020
Sure I get that but this is a fixed track and I guess what I'm saying is that if I have a performance hit for drawing the little trains everywhere vs just giving me the time I'd take the time.
Simply, no matter how cool this is as a proof of concept it is unusable due to severe performance issues.
And whoa! Someone open this in Chrome? I have 107 (!) errors!
Access to fetch at 'https://example.com/' from origin 'https://map.mta.info' has been blocked by CORS policy: Response to preflight request doesn't pass access control check: No 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header is present on the requested resource. If an opaque response serves your needs, set the request's mode to 'no-cors' to fetch the resource with CORS disabled.Whaaaaaat?
I was going to go on a rant giving Columbus Circle as an example of form over function. You have a perfectly good map of the city overlaying the stop but you're using Vignelli's map, e.g., the stops give no indication of where they leave the riders. It is actually worse than having any information it gives the indication that you just magically appear somewhere above Columbus Circle and I know some of those stops are a block or so away as that's just how big some of these platforms are.
Tufte explores this in depth. The basic point being that if I'm on an iPhone and I'm trying to get from point A to point B how I get there might be entertaining to look at but not really the best way to get me there. To give you the Uber example, I'm presented with my current location and my only real input is my future location. I then receive the time to arrival for the driver. When I'm in the car I'm given the route but that's just as much for be to stare at so I don't have to talk to anyone. The key points is that it presents you just enough and not more than what you need to do to accomplish the trip.
This is just kind of a mess that again, looks great on film. But a lot of UX looks better on film than in reality.
posted by geoff. at 11:22 AM on October 21, 2020
Those little boxes with the down arrows represent the entrances, but I agree, that's not really clear from the map. It sort of looks like they are elevators. It doesn't seem like there's anyhting that indicates that they are indeed, entrances.
posted by capnsue at 11:27 AM on October 21, 2020
posted by capnsue at 11:27 AM on October 21, 2020
Edit: Oof, instead of complaining lets let Chrome's Lighthouse tools do the work. Given this is MTA I'm guessing there's a lot of accessibility and support for a wide range of browsers, which it does score high on. Except some scores are unacceptable:
- Interactive at 14.0 seconds
- Total Blocking Time 7.4 seconds
- First Contentful Paint 4.3 s
Great POC team, you proved it work. Now go back and figure out how to make it work. Are all the MTA APIs available? I would assume they're not blocking for train data but you never know.
posted by geoff. at 11:30 AM on October 21, 2020
- Interactive at 14.0 seconds
- Total Blocking Time 7.4 seconds
- First Contentful Paint 4.3 s
Great POC team, you proved it work. Now go back and figure out how to make it work. Are all the MTA APIs available? I would assume they're not blocking for train data but you never know.
posted by geoff. at 11:30 AM on October 21, 2020
I'll stop, I'll stop with the thread takeover. But to contrast this with another free map that doesn't crash and doesn't introduce skeuomorphistic trains but shows them as arrows so you at least know which way a slow or stopped train is moving.
And I guess to my earlier point Google Maps shows where to actually walk to get to a station versus just "Columbus Circle," though it nor anyone else does the underground portion which is a real challenge in these underground labyrinths. The only real thing the Work & Co. map incorporates over Google Maps is whether or not the escalator and elevators are functioning, but that is a public API so I assume it is only a matter of time before Google/Bing adds that feature silently. Google Maps also accurately shows time when the train will arrive, I'm sure it would be trivial for them to add the train moving if they know the TOA and I'm guessing that is how trains are calculated in "Where's My Subway" and the official MTA map.
MTA treated this like it did with MetroCards: engage the best, put in all the best resources and be done with it, maybe have small improvements over its lifetime. Hell Bruce Schneier was involved in it. That's not, unfortunately, how web-based projects work. You need a team constantly iterating over small improvements like the Google Maps team does, quickly testing and throwing out bad ideas. A lot of issues in this could simply be solved by giving it another 3 months of iterations of making lines bigger, improving performance, etc. This has nothing to do with the MTA or Work & Co. but how the majority of contract projects work.
posted by geoff. at 12:47 PM on October 21, 2020
And I guess to my earlier point Google Maps shows where to actually walk to get to a station versus just "Columbus Circle," though it nor anyone else does the underground portion which is a real challenge in these underground labyrinths. The only real thing the Work & Co. map incorporates over Google Maps is whether or not the escalator and elevators are functioning, but that is a public API so I assume it is only a matter of time before Google/Bing adds that feature silently. Google Maps also accurately shows time when the train will arrive, I'm sure it would be trivial for them to add the train moving if they know the TOA and I'm guessing that is how trains are calculated in "Where's My Subway" and the official MTA map.
MTA treated this like it did with MetroCards: engage the best, put in all the best resources and be done with it, maybe have small improvements over its lifetime. Hell Bruce Schneier was involved in it. That's not, unfortunately, how web-based projects work. You need a team constantly iterating over small improvements like the Google Maps team does, quickly testing and throwing out bad ideas. A lot of issues in this could simply be solved by giving it another 3 months of iterations of making lines bigger, improving performance, etc. This has nothing to do with the MTA or Work & Co. but how the majority of contract projects work.
posted by geoff. at 12:47 PM on October 21, 2020
I really want to like this. I really do. But as other people have said, I don’t really see the utility in a subway map that runs so hard it melts your mobile phone. Like I have an iPhone 8 and it just chugs and activates hand-warmer mode.
posted by AirExplosive at 12:49 PM on October 21, 2020
posted by AirExplosive at 12:49 PM on October 21, 2020
The moving trains, rendered as little gray caterpillarlike creepers along the lines, were a late addition to the project. They are extras — useful but not strictly essential —
What the ever shitting fuck are they talking about, seeing live trains move along the map is literally ALL I care about with this big dumb redesign
posted by windbox at 12:56 PM on October 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
What the ever shitting fuck are they talking about, seeing live trains move along the map is literally ALL I care about with this big dumb redesign
posted by windbox at 12:56 PM on October 21, 2020 [3 favorites]
@transitmap’s take:
The MTA released a beta version of a new online real-time subway map this morning, supposedly a fusion between the design sensibilities of the Vignelli diagram and the modern subway map’s geographical pragmatism. There’s certainly been a big PR push, with effusive articles being written about it and even a mini-documentary film by Gary Huswit of Helvetica fame. With all this hoopla, I had to go investigate myself… and I came away unimpressed.posted by zamboni at 3:24 PM on October 21, 2020
It looks cool, but it doesn't run smoothly on my laptop either, which is a shame because I love playing around with stuff like this.
They did it for free - so does this include lifetime free support and updates?
posted by carter at 3:58 PM on October 21, 2020
They did it for free - so does this include lifetime free support and updates?
posted by carter at 3:58 PM on October 21, 2020
I lived in NYC for five years and hated nearly everything about.
Well, then are glad you left!
posted by Chickenring at 9:59 PM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
Well, then are glad you left!
posted by Chickenring at 9:59 PM on October 21, 2020 [1 favorite]
The problem with creative advertising is that you have raised people to ask for the impossible.
This just made my day, which will involve dealing with impossible requests, thank you, you have no idea.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:18 AM on October 23, 2020
This just made my day, which will involve dealing with impossible requests, thank you, you have no idea.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:18 AM on October 23, 2020
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