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January 17, 2021 8:27 AM Subscribe
The Daniel Patrick Moynihan Train Hall has opened, expanding New York's Penn Station into the former General Post Office building. It's been been praised (New Yorker, NYT) for its art-filled spaciousness, and plans have been announced to connect it to the High Line. Sadly, project manager Michael Evans didn't live to see its completion (NYT/Archive.is), having taken his own life in early 2020 amid the stress of the works.
The art-filled link is great. I like all three of those pieces.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:48 AM on January 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 9:48 AM on January 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't live in New York. I've been to Penn Station like once or twice, and I remember that (1) it's underneath Madison Square Garden and (2) there were a bunch of tunnels leading places and it was super-confusing.
I knew they wanted to re-do Penn Station, but they couldn't get Dolan, the owner of MSG, who also owns the Knicks, to move out. I was pleasantly surprised, and also kind of confused, to find out they were able to re-do Penn Station without tearing down MSG. But again, I'm not from NY so I'm ignorant about this whole thing.
Looking at new maps, this train hall is across 8th Avenue on the west from MSG. It looks like (many of) the Amtrak trains run under 8th Avenue, and there were platforms, etc. under this new train hall already? So instead of going underground to a waiting area, then going further down and navigating through tunnels, you can go to this building above ground, and have maybe more-direct access to these trains underneath it? (If you need to get to the subway or NJ Transit, you still have to go over to where those are, on the east side of MSG.)
Is there a new map, or 3D or something, to show how it all works? Can/have they re-done that first underground level now that Amtrak isn't there anymore?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:54 AM on January 17, 2021
I knew they wanted to re-do Penn Station, but they couldn't get Dolan, the owner of MSG, who also owns the Knicks, to move out. I was pleasantly surprised, and also kind of confused, to find out they were able to re-do Penn Station without tearing down MSG. But again, I'm not from NY so I'm ignorant about this whole thing.
Looking at new maps, this train hall is across 8th Avenue on the west from MSG. It looks like (many of) the Amtrak trains run under 8th Avenue, and there were platforms, etc. under this new train hall already? So instead of going underground to a waiting area, then going further down and navigating through tunnels, you can go to this building above ground, and have maybe more-direct access to these trains underneath it? (If you need to get to the subway or NJ Transit, you still have to go over to where those are, on the east side of MSG.)
Is there a new map, or 3D or something, to show how it all works? Can/have they re-done that first underground level now that Amtrak isn't there anymore?
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:54 AM on January 17, 2021
It was nearly half a life ago, but I remember the Amtrak portion of the station not being entirely terrible. The Acela lounge wasn't much, but the departure hall was at least ok enough. If you entered from 8th Avenue and bought tickets in advance, you'd never know what a shabby piece of crap the rest of the place was.
Using NJT or the subway station, on the other hand, was like descending into purgatory. Just a warren of claustrophobic tunnels.
From what I've seen, the new hall is much nicer, but it reminds me too much of a damn shopping mall. Better than what used to be, but still much worse than what once was.
posted by wierdo at 1:17 PM on January 17, 2021
Using NJT or the subway station, on the other hand, was like descending into purgatory. Just a warren of claustrophobic tunnels.
From what I've seen, the new hall is much nicer, but it reminds me too much of a damn shopping mall. Better than what used to be, but still much worse than what once was.
posted by wierdo at 1:17 PM on January 17, 2021
I went with some friends to visit last week. If you are in the area, it’s worth seeing. It’s big and open and easy to get around - just the opposite of the ugly, badly signed, dingy space that is Penn Station. Do not miss the art. Both main pieces are extraordinary, and there are things like the clock that are wonderful: harken back to the old with with a very modern look.
Subway access is still inadequate, and if you are using NJ Transit, you’re still in Penn, but it’s great to see something positive in NYC transportation. It’s been a very tough year here, and this feels so hopeful.
The story of the PM, Michael Evans, is heartbreaking.
posted by AMyNameIs at 2:01 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Subway access is still inadequate, and if you are using NJ Transit, you’re still in Penn, but it’s great to see something positive in NYC transportation. It’s been a very tough year here, and this feels so hopeful.
The story of the PM, Michael Evans, is heartbreaking.
posted by AMyNameIs at 2:01 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I can’t wait for Covid to end so I can take the train back up to New York City. This feels like a bit of restorative justice, even though I admit that feeling seems a bit ridiculous. Still it makes me happy.
posted by interogative mood at 3:00 PM on January 17, 2021
posted by interogative mood at 3:00 PM on January 17, 2021
art historian Vincent Scully’s
Oh, I really want to hear play-by-play announcer Vincent Scully say this.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:31 PM on January 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh, I really want to hear play-by-play announcer Vincent Scully say this.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:31 PM on January 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Looking at new maps, this train hall is across 8th Avenue on the west from MSG. It looks like (many of) the Amtrak trains run under 8th Avenue, and there were platforms, etc. under this new train hall already?
Yes, the trains and platforms were (mostly?) already there. If you took a right when you came out of the A/C/E, you could end up in a sort of alternate universe Penn Station (bright, shiny and well-lit) with access to (I think) LIRR platforms and an escalator up took you to an exit on 8th Ave to the side of the post office. It has, of course, been months since I've been through there, but the construction was along the side (and back?) of the post office.
It was nearly half a life ago, but I remember the Amtrak portion of the station not being entirely terrible. The Acela lounge wasn't much, but the departure hall was at least ok enough.
It's the level below the Amtrak departure hall that everyone complains about--the ceilings are way too low and it's badly lit. But there's nothing really wrong with the Amtrak departure hall or the NJ Transit section, other than a lack of seating (and general lack of space on the NJ Transit side).
posted by hoyland at 5:54 PM on January 17, 2021
Yes, the trains and platforms were (mostly?) already there. If you took a right when you came out of the A/C/E, you could end up in a sort of alternate universe Penn Station (bright, shiny and well-lit) with access to (I think) LIRR platforms and an escalator up took you to an exit on 8th Ave to the side of the post office. It has, of course, been months since I've been through there, but the construction was along the side (and back?) of the post office.
It was nearly half a life ago, but I remember the Amtrak portion of the station not being entirely terrible. The Acela lounge wasn't much, but the departure hall was at least ok enough.
It's the level below the Amtrak departure hall that everyone complains about--the ceilings are way too low and it's badly lit. But there's nothing really wrong with the Amtrak departure hall or the NJ Transit section, other than a lack of seating (and general lack of space on the NJ Transit side).
posted by hoyland at 5:54 PM on January 17, 2021
Aaron Gordon (who covers transit and infrastructure topics; see eg the now-defunct Signal Problems newsletter about the MTA, or his more recent newsletter-slash-physical-zine, The Mail) wrote a piece on Moynihan in his capacity at VICE, calling it a "temple to modern mediocrity".
It's worth reading; he doesn't pull punches in his reporting (most of his subjects just tend to be in depressingly dire straits) but it's not a complete whinefest either.
I won't be able to use the new hall much, as an NJT rider whose office is east of the station complex, but I'm still looking forward to seeing it in person whenever I'm able to safely commute into the city again.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 6:03 PM on January 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's worth reading; he doesn't pull punches in his reporting (most of his subjects just tend to be in depressingly dire straits) but it's not a complete whinefest either.
I won't be able to use the new hall much, as an NJT rider whose office is east of the station complex, but I'm still looking forward to seeing it in person whenever I'm able to safely commute into the city again.
posted by cyrusdogstar at 6:03 PM on January 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Bloomberg CityLab: "The new Moynihan Train Hall is a light-drenched effort to recapture the glory of a lost architectural masterpiece. It doesn't fully succeed — but it's a good start."
posted by kliuless at 9:56 PM on January 17, 2021
posted by kliuless at 9:56 PM on January 17, 2021
Michael Evans' story is really heartbreaking, it sounds like he shouldered an enormous amount on his own. It looks like such an interesting project - my poor husband can look forward to it on the itinerary in a distant future when we can visit New York again.
posted by carbide at 12:08 AM on January 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by carbide at 12:08 AM on January 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
While it doesn’t quite recapture the grandeur of old Penn Station
Oh my, what a stunning building! And what a shame it was demolished.
posted by the cydonian at 12:09 AM on January 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh my, what a stunning building! And what a shame it was demolished.
posted by the cydonian at 12:09 AM on January 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Thanks for posting this, I remember hearing about this project ages ago and hoping it would actually happen. I can't imagine the pressure the project manager must have felt, especially when a single enormous project takes that long.
posted by sepviva at 10:48 AM on January 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by sepviva at 10:48 AM on January 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
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We really need more attention and funding for public transport as a system, both city-wide and regionally, rather than this kind of splashy high-visibility project. That being said, this seems nicely done and it’s a welcome addition.
posted by theory at 9:32 AM on January 17, 2021 [9 favorites]