Coyote & Crow - the Roleplaying Game of an Uncolonized Future

March 4, 2021 6:56 AM

Coyote & Crow, "A science fiction and fantasy tabletop RPG set in a near-future where the Americas were never colonized, created by a team of Natives", as their KS page puts it, with a promotional video featuring music by A Tribe Called Red that will give you shivers. Judging by the KS page, this team is skilled and this game is something to watch out for.

I rarely (ie only once) have talked about Kickstarter projects, but this one is notable for blowing past its funding goal within hours of launch and is now heading for the stratosphere (the goal was 22K$ and they're past 285K$ as of day 3 of the campaign).

More information is available at their website.

posted by Mogur (38 comments total)

Direct link to the video
posted by Mogur at 6:57 AM on March 4, 2021 [3 favorites]

Built around the exclusive use of D12 dice

I like to think this decision was made just because they know there's a million of these rolling around in boxes where everyone is grabbing the 6s and 20s and 10s, leaving them to lose their sharp corners in a continual tumble against against a bunch of 8 and 4 sided dice.

Now I want to make an exclusively D4 game.

For example "8" might be the number your Character needs to attempt to do something and every 8 or higher they rolled would be a Success. The more 8's, the more successful they are.

This sounds like it's very similar to the White Wolf system, where the number of dice you roll is based on how many points you have in relevant attributes and skills, and then you count the number of success rolls you obtain against a difficulty threshold. From experience, it's a very good system for fast play and relying more on narrative and role-playing than on rules execution.

While this game was created by a Native-led team, this game is for everyone.

My brain short-circuited as I tried to encompass how this could be like role-playing appropriation.

It's a really cool premiss and it's great to see a project with strong cultural ties driven by members of that culture. I'm going to raise this with our group.

But I have complicated feelings about this because our current campaign is set in 1920s Oregon and involves, necessarily, a lot of racism to accurately capture our environment and put choices to our characters that are actually difficult. None of us are role-playing racists, but the GM is very good about implicating us in systemic racism. We're having to think consciously about the privilege of our characters and what we do about it, without turning into time-travelling moralists.
posted by fatbird at 8:07 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

Oooh, I'm in. I'm glad they've adopted the strategy of having one physical reward that can scale in production without much hassle, because it looks like they're having wild success.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 8:10 AM on March 4, 2021

Reminds me of the concept in the Craft Sequence by Max Gladstone. I highly recommend the series. This RPG though is more exciting because of the representation of the creators.
posted by Flight Hardware, do not touch at 8:12 AM on March 4, 2021

Very neat. The wave of support for this and the fact that it engages people in envisioning this alternate world created by this team of people make me feel hopeful!
posted by slidell at 8:25 AM on March 4, 2021

The artwork is GORGEOUS.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:25 AM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

This is very cool and I'm delighted to see the level of support they've gotten (mine included). And yes, that video is stunning!
posted by some chick at 9:30 AM on March 4, 2021

I saw this yesterday and was super tempted to break my resolve to stop buying RPGs from Kickstarter that I'm never going to play.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 9:33 AM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

The song by A Tribe Called Red is called "Electric Pow Wow Drum". If you liked that, I recommend "Burn Your Village to the Ground".
posted by Alison at 9:34 AM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

(the goal was 22K$ and they're past 285K$ as of day 3 of the campaign).

This doesn’t happen by accident - there’s a real fundraising success story buried here that it would be interesting to see told further on down the line.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:49 AM on March 4, 2021

Mod note: Hi, a few people have noted this is an open Kickstarter which is normally not allowed, but just so people know, I'm making an exception here. Enjoy!
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:54 AM on March 4, 2021 [16 favorites]

I like how their rewards levels build in the option to donate a copy to a reservation library.
posted by Orlop at 9:57 AM on March 4, 2021 [8 favorites]

I saw this yesterday and was super tempted to break my resolve to stop buying RPGs from Kickstarter that I'm never going to play.

As someone who also suffers from this affliction, especially during the recent ZineQuest 3, please let me know if we need to get a support group going :)

I currently have 7 outstanding RPG Kickstarters, one of which I've been waiting for aboooooooout 4 years.
Was severely tempted to get the new Lord of the Rings from FreeLeague, sorely tempted to get this one.
posted by Bill Watches Movies Podcast at 10:32 AM on March 4, 2021 [4 favorites]

A dear friend of many years is on the creative team for this project and I'm so so excited and happy to see it here and to see the Kickstarter blowing up this way. I hope this gives all of them the space, connections, and resources to do the creative work they've wanted to do but haven't been able to because of the pressures of earning a living. It is a brilliant team with a really unique vision and I want all of them to have more breathing room to make more art.
posted by potrzebie at 11:22 AM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

I would also like to join your support group for people who continuously back kickstarters for RPGs they will never play. I currently have seven I’m waiting on as well, and I just went ahead and backed this one too.
posted by skycrashesdown at 11:42 AM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

This looks so great, and I LOVE the artwork. I supported them & passed it along to some other folks I know. Thanks for posting!
posted by DTMFA at 11:53 AM on March 4, 2021

Buy tabletop RPG sourcebooks and read them with pleasure! Nobody says you have to actually play them.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 12:17 PM on March 4, 2021 [14 favorites]

Wow, did you all see this stretch goal, which they achieved? This might be the coolest part.

We'll create a Kag Chahi wiki on our website that will allow Natives to add and develop the in-world trade language using an easy system. You'll be part of creating a living language that belongs to all of us! This will be free to access for all players.

posted by martin q blank at 12:24 PM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

[Hi, a few people have noted this is an open Kickstarter which is normally not allowed, but just so people know, I'm making an exception here. Enjoy!]

I think the fact this has already blown past every stretch goal makes the normal "Metafilter is not the place for free kickstarter advertising" rationale moot.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:38 PM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

Hi, my name is djeo and I have a problem. I back way too many kickstarter rpgs. I won't ever play most of them but I love reading new settings and getting ideas for my games.

I love that I was able to back and donate a dead tree to a reservation library. Plus, this looks gorgeous!
posted by djeo at 12:49 PM on March 4, 2021 [4 favorites]

Now I want to make an exclusively D4 game.

The first time I played D&D the game ground to a halt because everybody at the table was baffled about how to read a D4 roll. So, yes, I support the notion of a game based on the most mysterious of the primal RPG polyhedrons.

Anyway, Coyote and Crow looks quite interesting, but I seem to have rolled a 20 on Save vs New RPG. Like many here, a stack of unplayed RPGs and supplements has given advantage on the roll. Additionally, there's some kind of reverse inspiration going on since the game world looks to have put the indigenous peoples I am most familiar with under permanent ice.
posted by house-goblin at 1:14 PM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

As a non-American white dude, I'd be extremely reluctant to play this, because it is basically guaranteed it'd be appropriative. The only exposure any of my players have to native American culture is white American pop culture. I don't have a sense for what ways are appropriate to expand on the setting as a GM, and unlike fantasy or sci-fi, this world is based on the culture of real people whom I would disrespect with my flailing improv.

I wouldn't mind something that needs none of my creative input though.
posted by Merus at 2:20 PM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

Holy moly! Nativefuturism! BRING IT.
posted by tspae at 3:12 PM on March 4, 2021 [1 favorite]

As a non-American white dude, I'd be extremely reluctant to play this, because it is basically guaranteed it'd be appropriative.

I see this sentiment a lot, and while I understand it I think it's an over-correction to cultural appropriation. In this specific example, we have indigenous people who are making something based on their cultures and saying "Please play this." Enjoying another culture's traditions and participating in them, especially when those traditions are open to outsiders, is not cultural appropriation. Joining a Halau and learning the hula is not appropriative, wearing a cheongsam is not appropriative, observing Dia de los Muertos is not appropriative, playing a game about Native American cultures written by natives is not appropriative.

Cultural appropriation is using aspects of another culture with no respect of or interest in their context. It's things like having an "indian" as your team mascot, wearing a cheongsam (or any cultural fashion) to a costume party, or putting "African" art up in your white suburban living room. If I, as a white dude with no native ancestry, were to make an RPG like this, it would be extremely hard if not impossible for me to do that without being appropriative. I can play an RPG like this, though, because it's specifically made for people of other cultures to play and learn about the native cultures of North America and what could have been.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:00 PM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

Yeah, I think this might actually be a way to learn some things about Native culture.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 5:02 PM on March 4, 2021 [6 favorites]

If I, as a white dude with no native ancestry, were to make an RPG like this, it would be extremely hard if not impossible for me to do that without being appropriative. I can play an RPG like this, though, because it's specifically made for people of other cultures to play and learn about the native cultures of North America and what could have been.

But compare to debates about whether yoga as practiced by non-Indians in Europe and America constitutes cultural appropriation. There are absolutely people who argue that it does, in spite of the fact that yoga was initially exported and popularized by Indians who wanted to share (a simplified version of) the traditional practice with the rest of the world.

In my head, I make a (probably heterodox and insufficient) distinction between using something from another culture and pretending to be a member of another culture. So like, it's maybe OK if I wear a kimono at home because I think it's comfortable? But more iffy if I wear a kimono to a "costume party"? And definitely no good if I put on makeup to appear more Japanese. (Fun fact: I own a yukata that was given to me as a gift by a Japanese conversation partner.)

It's especially hard in this case because it's a "role-playing" game, so it's the very nature of the thing that you're going to be pretending to be a member of this (fictional alternate historical) culture. When somebody asks you what you were doing last night, are you going to feel comfortable explaining, "I was playing a fun game where we pretend to be Native Americans with special magic powers!" ("Uh, do you at least treat the genocide sensitively?" "No, we pretend it never happened!")

So while I supported the Kickstarter and am looking forward to reading the book and seeing their vision of an alternate uncolonized North America, I don't think I'm likely to throw together a campaign and play it with my kids. Just imagine that parent-teacher conference...
posted by The Tensor at 5:56 PM on March 4, 2021 [5 favorites]

Speaking of games using d4, the narrativist rpg "My Life With Master" by Paul Czege exclusively uses d4s. Of games I've bought and not yet played, that's the one I feel the biggest urge to actually play. :) http://www.halfmeme.com/master.html
posted by AaronDaMommio at 7:00 PM on March 4, 2021

I am excited both to learn about this game (which I just backed) and to learn that there are many other people who kickstart lots of RPGs they never get around to playing. :)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:27 PM on March 4, 2021 [4 favorites]

Just yesterday I watched an episode of Critter Hug where the hosts interviewed the creators of Jiangshi, an RPG where you apparently play as a family of Chinese immigrants.

It was an interesting interview where they talked explicitly about how they created the game with the intention of non-Chinese people playing it. One of the creators talked about how they wrote a section of the manual to address how to address the racism of the setting and how also not to be racist while playing. A lot of it boils down to not relying on stereotypes, and playing your characters as individuals with goals, personalities, etc. Also, not doing accents.

They also talked about games as a vehicle for building empathy in a way that less interactional entertainment might not be able to do. It was interesting, and made me think perhaps I should buy a copy of Jiangshi and do a oneshot some time.

I think that something has ... gone wrong ... if you think that avoiding these creators' works, something that could have a real effect on their livelihoods if enough people do the same, is somehow more respectful of them and their culture than playing the game and doing your best to *learn* while playing it. Who or what are you respecting?

Fundamentally, I think that the ability to say no, I'm not going to partake because I want to avoid racial discomfort, is a form of white privilege. You could absolutely fuck up and imitate a racist stereotype. But that's a lot less likely to happen if you take the time to educate yourself about what those stereotypes are, why they're inaccurate/offensive, etc. And that's something worthwhile even if you don't end up playing the game.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 11:05 PM on March 4, 2021 [12 favorites]

Enjoying another culture's traditions and participating in them, especially when those traditions are open to outsiders, is not cultural appropriation. Joining a Halau and learning the hula is not appropriative, wearing a cheongsam is not appropriative, observing Dia de los Muertos is not appropriative, playing a game about Native American cultures written by natives is not appropriative.

I'm with you up until Dia de los Muertos. If I throw a Dia de los Muertos party, it's appropriative, because I do not know anyone Mexican, and the only reason I'm throwing it is because it's exotic and alien. If I knew someone who was Mexican, and they threw a Dia de los Muertos party and invited me to participate, that's a different story. Same thing with the game. The fact that native people are packaging it so it can be exotic for us, in different ways, does not diminish my discomfort.

They also talked about games as a vehicle for building empathy in a way that less interactional entertainment might not be able to do.

I am extremely sceptical about the use of games as a vehicle for empathy - the research into VR games as a tool for empathy suggested that the relatively pleasant experience of the game leads too many people to believe that whatever negative experience they were trying to portray can't have been that bad. It's the same kind of thing as the song Common People skewered.

I think that something has ... gone wrong ... if you think that avoiding these creators' works, something that could have a real effect on their livelihoods if enough people do the same, is somehow more respectful of them and their culture than playing the game and doing your best to learn while playing it. Who or what are you respecting?

Part of my wariness here is that I've done enough game design and GMing to know that how you intend something to come across and how players receive it is a vast gulf, so their intention that people will learn about and empathise with the culture they're portraying is not necessarily going to work. Part of my wariness here is because I'm well aware of my deficiencies when it comes to race, and these games are asking me to make assumptions about the experiences of people from different cultures, which I know I tend not to do very well. Like I said when I broached my discomfort, I would have been far preferred something like a comic, a video game, or an animated series, something where the creators have more control over the world.
posted by Merus at 11:38 PM on March 4, 2021 [2 favorites]

The fact that native people are packaging it so it can be exotic for us, in different ways, does not diminish my discomfort.

I have a lot of issues with the claim that they are packaging it to be "exotic." A lot.

Part of my wariness here is that I've done enough game design and GMing to know that how you intend something to come across and how players receive it is a vast gulf, so their intention that people will learn about and empathise with the culture they're portraying is not necessarily going to work.

That "not necessarily" is doing a lot of work. What do you think leads to those failures, and what could be used to address it? Do you think that because those failures can occur, it's not worth trying?

The inevitable result of white people deciding not to play games featuring non-white characters is that games with non-white characters will never be as successful as games featuring white characters.

I wouldn't want to play this game without a discussion first. I would want to have a plan for dealing with accidental racism that I witnessed. I wouldn't want to play this game with people who are unwilling to critically examine their understanding of race. But I also wouldn't want to be the white person who says no, I'm only going to play games with characters who are white or are a fantasy race, because navigating my own racism and ignorance is scary and I might fuck up.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 7:16 AM on March 5, 2021 [14 favorites]

I mean, maybe I'm wrong and in time other members of these cultures will weigh in on why this game is messed up, but as presented it's meant to be a way of reaching out to a community that is historically steeped in racist stereotypes. How many tabletop games present enemies coded with native and indigenous imagery? You're not meant to learn from the Orc shaman, you're meant to murder him and roll to see what loot he drops. Maybe this game isn't perfect, frankly it's probably not, but it's a step in the right direction and folks shouldn't feel bad for wanting to play it.

I'm with you up until Dia de los Muertos. If I throw a Dia de los Muertos party, it's appropriative, because I do not know anyone Mexican, and the only reason I'm throwing it is because it's exotic and alien.

Right, which is why I said "observe Dia de los Muertos" not "throw a Dia de los Muertos party." It's perfectly okay to be interested in other cultures, even if you don't personally know anyone from that culture. If someone was really interested in Dia de los Muertos, they could see if their local college has a Hispanic cultural program, or contact prominent Hispanic members of their community. Ideally you make friends with people in this culture, who are likely to happily share their traditions and practices with you. This isn't cultural tourism, it's not cultural appropriation, it's a way to grow as an individual and carry on the long tradition of humans sharing their beliefs and practices with other humans.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 2:25 PM on March 5, 2021 [1 favorite]

For those interested in the intersection of native americans and tabletop RPGs, Allen Turner has contributed to a lot of supplements over the last decade, and created his own original system and setting based mechanically on the F.A.T.E. system and historically on his own Lakota heritage in an alternate history with no European invasion. Time period is pre-industrial but there is a faction of steampunk witches. I've played Ehdrigohr once, it was fun but I couldn't get into F.A.T.E. so I'm pretty excited for Coyote and Crow.
posted by fomhar at 3:16 PM on March 5, 2021 [2 favorites]

I noticed that the Coyote and Crow website has a "Statement of Intent" blog post that includes the following:

What about appropriation by non-Native players?

While no one can control what end users do with a product, there will be specific instructions and guidance given to Native and non-Native players in the book. In addition, it’s important to remember that the history of our real world diverged from the history of this fictional one more than 700 years ago. Much of what players will experience in this game is entirely speculative, extrapolated from or inspired by total fantasy as much as it is by First Nations history prior to 1400.

Personally, I incline toward the "it's an opportunity for learning" idea, but can't really gainsay anyone spooked by spectres of racism and cultural appropriation. It's definitely fraught ground.
posted by house-goblin at 8:22 PM on March 5, 2021 [3 favorites]

I am extremely sceptical about the use of games as a vehicle for empathy - the research into VR games as a tool for empathy suggested that the relatively pleasant experience of the game leads too many people to believe that whatever negative experience they were trying to portray can't have been that bad.

I was thinking about this game and my response in this thread, and there was another thing that I wanted to say, in response to this part of your comment. It kind of bothers me that I didn't pick up on it and respond to it before.

You're assuming that when a creator says games can build empathy, it's only about suffering. It's about making white people understand how bad racism is. That could definitely be a goal, but the history of racially persecuted minorities is not just of racism.

Like, in Jiangshi, racism will be a part of the characters' experiences, but there is so much more to empathize with. What about the joy of succeeding in your business and providing for your family? What about the joy of reunion, or the sadness of parting? What about the history there is to learn? Of just "experiencing" people from this time and place as multi-dimensional human beings who are the subject of their own story? It is pretty reductionist to say that their goal is just to get white people to empathize with people who have experienced racism. And also to assume that it's all about white people, too - I mean, numerically, white will be the biggest potential audience in North America, and they are taking that into account, but I don't think they ever said that this game is "for" white people.

If we look at most media created by white people for white people about racial minorities, the stated goal often is about empathy and education about racism. (It's usually to soothe white people, really.) So I get where this comes from, and I think I fell into the same trap here.

Importantly, the game we're talking about here is an alternate history where white people never colonized the Americas. As far as I can tell, it's just so not about white people empathizing with being the victim of colonization and genocide. I don't see any indication that it's about white people at all, and several indications that it's not.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 4:07 PM on March 6, 2021 [3 favorites]

Connor Alexander addressed the question of cultural appropriation in a Kickstarter update today titled "A message to non-Natives":

Greetings folks!

Today, I want to talk a little bit about who should be playing this game. I've seen a trickle of concern that Coyote and Crow is something non-Natives shouldn't bring to their table. Before I get into how we've handled this situation in the text of the game itself, I wanted to share my broader thoughts on the topic.

To me, RPGs are about bringing people together, sharing stories and leaving the table with a collective experience that makes all of the players lives just a little bit brighter. I want everyone to play Coyote and Crow the way it was intended to be played: With an open, respectful, joyful heart, and a sense of wonder and adventure.

Let's talk about the "A" word. And I'd like to start off by providing a simple analogy. Let's say a person travels to a different country with a different culture from their own and someone invites them into their home for dinner. They sit down at the table and when they're offered food they say, "I wouldn't feel right eating this. It would be appropriation." Hopefully it's obvious how off target that is. Yes, the analogy isn't perfect. But my point is this: Appropriation, at its root, is about taking. What we're doing is giving. And what we're giving you is fictional. It's not the traditions or history of any real world tribe or nation (more on that in a little further on).

When it comes to the actual game, we address this concept head on in a few ways. First, we have pages at the start of the book that directly speak to non-Native players and Native players. We discuss how each group should approach the game and some obvious no-no's for non-Natives. But throughout we call attention to specific things where there might be a chance for any non-Natives to misstep or for Natives to add value. A perfect example of this is the Ceremony Skill. This is a fully functioning Skill on its own and is useful as is to anyone playing. But we also call this out as a point where Native players can speak with their Story Guide and work to create Specialized versions for the Skill that allows for different effects and parameters based on that particular Native's culture and traditions. In this scenario, non-Natives don't need to take any special actions. Just play the game as it's written, and you're fine.

I also want to point out that on the character sheet there's a line called 'Other Identifiers'. This is a place where Native players can add their tribe if that's something they want to do. Real world tribal identity is not required for your character and in fact is specifically called out as something not to do for non-Native players. I'm not going to go into expansive detail here, but we do address the concept of identity, nationalism and tribal affiliation further in the book.

The core book focuses on the city of Cahokia and to a lesser extent, the surrounding area called the Free Lands. While we touch on the neighboring nations identified in the map, we'll leave the deep dive on those to future expansions. We'll be tapping Native writers from those regions to more fully realize each and give them all the unique flavor and feel that they deserve. Those expansions will address more directly how real world tribes intersect with the world of C&C, but we'll have the same qualifiers and guidance for non-Native players in those books as well.

The reality is that most of the people who do the worst kind of appropriation, the worst stereotyping and racist behavior, aren't going to want to play this game. We don't have to worry about them because this book is so in your face "not-white" that it's going to act like repellent. Good. We don't need them. Will there be folks who trip up and say something stupid at the table and offend someone else? Abso-freaking-lutely. But that's no different than any other day in America. Don't use that as an excuse to not play Coyote & Crow.

To sum up, I get it. Not wanting to appropriate culture is a good instinct. But trust our whole team when we collectively say, we want you to play our game! We want you to enjoy this and to share it with us. And if you're ever not sure about a specific point, ask us. While I'd love to think that this update will put the issue to bed, I'm fully aware that it won't. We're already planning on expanding those opening pages in the book that discuss how to approach the game. We want everyone feeling good when they sit down to play Coyote & Crow.

And let me end on a tease! We'll announce one final stretch goal if we hit the current one. That next stretch goal is going to be a stand alone adventure for Coyote and Crow from a certain Nebula and Hugo award winning Native author!

Wado/Thanks,

Connor

posted by The Tensor at 2:41 PM on March 11, 2021 [6 favorites]

@The Tensor - Thanks for posting that note from their Kickstarter! I just came here to do the same.
posted by JohnFromGR at 3:48 PM on March 11, 2021

They're past $900,000 pledged with a little over a day to go in the Kickstarter.

If they get a million, they'll commission a one-shot adventure by Rebecca Roanhorse.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 10:33 AM on March 31, 2021 [1 favorite]