"A Discredited Balkan Prince of No Particular Merit or Distinction”
April 9, 2021 4:24 AM Subscribe
Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, dies aged 99 [Grauniad]
The intensely private prince will likely be remembered for his early efforts to help modernize the royal family’s image during a time of great change for Britain and the world, especially at the outset of Elizabeth’s reign in 1952. He also developed a reputation for the occasional brusque comment and crass, if not racist jokes. [NBC News]
The official statement
The intensely private prince will likely be remembered for his early efforts to help modernize the royal family’s image during a time of great change for Britain and the world, especially at the outset of Elizabeth’s reign in 1952. He also developed a reputation for the occasional brusque comment and crass, if not racist jokes. [NBC News]
The official statement
74 years of marriage. My heart goes out to Queen Elizabeth
posted by biggreenplant at 4:40 AM on April 9, 2021 [60 favorites]
posted by biggreenplant at 4:40 AM on April 9, 2021 [60 favorites]
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posted by y2karl at 5:11 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 5:11 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Wow. The typical deal with partnerships like that, the survivor joins the departed pretty quick. She has had a very busy and stressful (and of course privileged) life and my limited understanding is that he has always been her rock.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:15 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 5:15 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
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posted by mumimor at 5:33 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 5:33 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is what happens when you don't pay your royal necromancers. The re-up on those spells can get pretty costly.
posted by fight or flight at 5:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 5:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [19 favorites]
Well, I suppose we all have to pay for his funeral now.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 5:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 5:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
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posted by fimbulvetr at 5:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by fimbulvetr at 5:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
For anyone (blissfully) unfamiliar with Phil's legacy, this is a good write up of what he embodied to many in the former British Empire:
Prince Philip to European aristocracy is what Donald Trump is to American liberal democracy: an embarrassment – the men who flaunt the ugly truth from under the thin veneer of their bourgeois etiquette. The racist provincialism of both Prince Philip and Donald Trump is irresistibly charming to their admirers and embarrassing to their detractors, but identically revelatory to the world at large. Their racism is so against the grain of recently manufactured liberal “tolerance” that they don’t know where to hide it.posted by fight or flight at 5:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [68 favorites]
This is why one should never skimp on the protection for one's phylactery.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
That's an excellent article, and a great summary of why I hate the word "tolerance" as a "value." Thank you for sharing it!
posted by explosion at 5:49 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by explosion at 5:49 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
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Such is the power of pop culture that I can only think of Matt Smith at this moment.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
Such is the power of pop culture that I can only think of Matt Smith at this moment.
posted by AlonzoMosleyFBI at 5:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
Al-Jazeera didn't seem to understand that Philip, prince though he was, wielded no power. He could not blow the world to hell by pressing a button; he could not deny black people the right to vote, LGBT people the right to marry, or women the right to drive.
Embarrassing buffoon though he may have been at times, I hope they might be a little more respectful with their obituary, or if not, at least hold off on it until the corpse has gone stiff.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Embarrassing buffoon though he may have been at times, I hope they might be a little more respectful with their obituary, or if not, at least hold off on it until the corpse has gone stiff.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 5:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Although I agree that the comparison massively overstates Prince Philip's impact on the world, to be fair to Al-Jazeera, that's a comment piece from 2017. Their actual obit is pretty good.
posted by plonkee at 5:54 AM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 5:54 AM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Al-Jazeera didn't seem to understand that Philip, prince though he was, wielded no power.
If you don't think that the ability of an old man to stand boldly in front of a woman of colour and make racist jokes about her heritage without being questioned didn't resonate with a certain kind of person, and embolden their views, especially when said views are in turn supported and even lauded as "honesty" or "jokes" in tabloid newspapers, then.. well, I don't know what to say.
Philip wielded enormous power. None of it was silent and none of it was stamped on paper, but there are definitely people in this country who owe their "bravery" of opinion to men like him.
Metafilter celebrated Rush Limbaugh's death with toilet emojis. Here is my celebration of Philip's death:
. for Diana
posted by fight or flight at 5:55 AM on April 9, 2021 [116 favorites]
If you don't think that the ability of an old man to stand boldly in front of a woman of colour and make racist jokes about her heritage without being questioned didn't resonate with a certain kind of person, and embolden their views, especially when said views are in turn supported and even lauded as "honesty" or "jokes" in tabloid newspapers, then.. well, I don't know what to say.
Philip wielded enormous power. None of it was silent and none of it was stamped on paper, but there are definitely people in this country who owe their "bravery" of opinion to men like him.
Metafilter celebrated Rush Limbaugh's death with toilet emojis. Here is my celebration of Philip's death:
. for Diana
posted by fight or flight at 5:55 AM on April 9, 2021 [116 favorites]
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Peace to those who mourn. Loss of a life, even one as long as 99 years, can be hard.
posted by Gray Duck at 5:59 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Peace to those who mourn. Loss of a life, even one as long as 99 years, can be hard.
posted by Gray Duck at 5:59 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Good riddance.
Now for the rest of them...
posted by prismatic7 at 6:00 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Now for the rest of them...
posted by prismatic7 at 6:00 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Bit gutted that due to covid and lockdown and all that we’re unlikely even to get a days holiday to celebrate.
posted by gnuhavenpier at 6:02 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by gnuhavenpier at 6:02 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
While I feel no particular joy or sadness in this moment, the fact that CBC Radio news has gone all somber with sad violin music at the start of every news broadcast feels way over the top.
posted by nubs at 6:04 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by nubs at 6:04 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
This is what happens when you don't pay your royal necromancers.
Well, it didn’t take long to start blaming the necromancers; I can’t say I’m surprised. Look, even the best-trained and most conscientious practitioner or dark arts can only so so much. It’s a simple fact: to bind a soul to a body, you need a) a soul and b) a body, and both had been worn pretty thin by all accounts.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:05 AM on April 9, 2021 [88 favorites]
Well, it didn’t take long to start blaming the necromancers; I can’t say I’m surprised. Look, even the best-trained and most conscientious practitioner or dark arts can only so so much. It’s a simple fact: to bind a soul to a body, you need a) a soul and b) a body, and both had been worn pretty thin by all accounts.
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:05 AM on April 9, 2021 [88 favorites]
If you don't think that the ability of an old man to stand boldly in front of a woman of colour and make racist jokes about her heritage without being questioned didn't resonate with a certain kind of person, and embolden their views, especially when said views are in turn supported and even lauded as "honesty" or "jokes" in tabloid newspapers, then.. well, I don't know what to say.
Depressingly, the official BBC obituary has this:
"On a visit to Australia in 2002, he asked an Aboriginal businessman whether "you still throw spears at each other". While he was heavily criticised in some quarters for such remarks, others saw them as reflecting someone who was his own man and who had refused to become bound by political correctness. Indeed, many saw his so-called "gaffes" as nothing more than an attempt to lighten the atmosphere and put people at their ease."
posted by robself at 6:12 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Depressingly, the official BBC obituary has this:
"On a visit to Australia in 2002, he asked an Aboriginal businessman whether "you still throw spears at each other". While he was heavily criticised in some quarters for such remarks, others saw them as reflecting someone who was his own man and who had refused to become bound by political correctness. Indeed, many saw his so-called "gaffes" as nothing more than an attempt to lighten the atmosphere and put people at their ease."
posted by robself at 6:12 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Well you know, it's inevitable really. They're all getting pretty bloody old now. Good on him for lasting this long, boo hiss to his bloody stupid opinions, massive condolences to Liz and the family, and let's hope that when this generation leaves this mortal coil we can consign the whole concept of Monarchy to the grave.
posted by h00py at 6:13 AM on April 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by h00py at 6:13 AM on April 9, 2021 [18 favorites]
He was a blatant racist. For decades. He deserved no respect in life and he deserves none in death.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:14 AM on April 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 6:14 AM on April 9, 2021 [25 favorites]
Thanks for the 2017 article, fight or flight. Prince Philllip represented the monarchy, with its sense of noblesse oblige used selectively while exerting privilege. He fully represents colonialism. At nearly 100, it's understandable that he was an anachronism. His early life sounds so difficult, and I can respect him for surviving it. But, overall, he's a reason for me to oppose monarchy. Queen Elizabeth seems to have changed with the times a bit more, I have sympathy for her loss. The lack of pageantry will be felt.
The news lists his death from and infection and heart problem but he really died of old age, and the Queen is 94, so change is coming, whether England is ready or not.
posted by theora55 at 6:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
The news lists his death from and infection and heart problem but he really died of old age, and the Queen is 94, so change is coming, whether England is ready or not.
posted by theora55 at 6:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Brace yourselves folks:
“In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving overpopulation.”
posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
“In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving overpopulation.”
posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Countdown to the tabloids blaming Harry and Meghan in 3..2...1...
posted by Optamystic at 6:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [33 favorites]
posted by Optamystic at 6:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [33 favorites]
Oh god, my next department meeting with our surprisingly strong royalist component of faculty is going to be horrendous. I am really hoping this doesn't mean our chair starts once more their push for putting back up the portrait of the Queen they have for some reason.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Countdown to the tabloids blaming Harry and Meghan in 3..2...1...
Sadly you don't even have to wait that long.
posted by fight or flight at 6:24 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Sadly you don't even have to wait that long.
posted by fight or flight at 6:24 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
@Milo_Edwards:
[buckingham palace last night]posted by wenestvedt at 6:27 AM on April 9, 2021 [68 favorites]
aide: hey we found this fucked up old painting of you in the attic and i accidentally tripped and put my foot through it but i’m sure we can fix it
prince philip: oh bollocks, oh fu
The CBC had plenty of coverage this morning, taking up nearly the entire broadcast. In it, they described the Prince as a mainstay of the British royal family.
And isn't that telling, that it's the 'British royal family' and not 'Canada's royal family'. Not even Canada's national broadcaster can pretend that the monarchy is a Canadian institution.
My condolences to Liz.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:33 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
And isn't that telling, that it's the 'British royal family' and not 'Canada's royal family'. Not even Canada's national broadcaster can pretend that the monarchy is a Canadian institution.
My condolences to Liz.
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:33 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yeah. But for all that I really do not want to be in Canada when the queen dies going by current CBC gushing over her husband.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:41 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 6:41 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
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posted by riruro at 6:46 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by riruro at 6:46 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Here is a good summary of what will happen when the Queen dies. It's pretty interesting, actually.
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posted by Melismata at 6:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
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posted by Melismata at 6:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
Until the mouth is filled with garlic and the head removed, the orphans of London can't rest easy just yet.
posted by Kitteh at 6:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [30 favorites]
I'll not shed a tear for a proudly racist old ghoul who lived like a parasite off of the public.
posted by Ferreous at 6:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 6:50 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Also, my mom texted me this morning telling me of his death and I was like, mom we're weren't friends or anything so not sure why this is textworthy
posted by Kitteh at 6:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Gah. BBC World News is wall-to-wall gushing over Phil.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:52 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 6:52 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
My husband is an unabashed fan of the Royal Family and was very saddened at the news. He's also a progressive as am I, and I am often baffled by the contradiction.
posted by Peach at 6:56 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Peach at 6:56 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
The BBC are gushing like Metafilter at a royal wedding.
posted by gnuhavenpier at 6:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by gnuhavenpier at 6:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
It's on Every Single BBC broadcast radio station.
The same programme.
posted by Faintdreams at 7:01 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
The same programme.
posted by Faintdreams at 7:01 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Tory HQ must be in a state of chaos as they try to decide which piece of nasty legislation they can push out while the media are distracted.
posted by fight or flight at 7:06 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 7:06 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
aide: hey we found this fucked up old painting of you in the attic and i accidentally tripped and put my foot through it but i’m sure we can fix it
prince philip: oh bollocks, oh fu
Oh, Dorian Gray jokes. They never get old!
posted by Gray Duck at 7:10 AM on April 9, 2021 [189 favorites]
prince philip: oh bollocks, oh fu
Oh, Dorian Gray jokes. They never get old!
posted by Gray Duck at 7:10 AM on April 9, 2021 [189 favorites]
Countdown to the tabloids blaming Harry and Meghan in 3..2...1...
I generally ignore the royal family as much as possible, but my may try to watch the funeral just so I can enjoy any deliciously awkward moments.
posted by TedW at 7:11 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I generally ignore the royal family as much as possible, but my may try to watch the funeral just so I can enjoy any deliciously awkward moments.
posted by TedW at 7:11 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
As an Irish person I was educated to despise the Royal Family and all they stood for. As an adult I was simply indifferent. That changed 10 years when they visited here. It seemed that our country had finally matured as a nation and was ready to cast aside all the old enmities. I was grateful to live long enough to see this and ever since I have felt affection for the old pair. So although he may have been a despicable person my belief continues to be that even the very worst of us are capable of doing some good.
posted by night_train at 7:13 AM on April 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
posted by night_train at 7:13 AM on April 9, 2021 [28 favorites]
Well, this sucks... even though being from a former colony of the Queen's, I've always had a soft spot for the man--for having the courtesy and the courage to stand by his wife and support her in whatever form he could.
A total gentleman, if not a bit *misinformed* of certain aspects in how the world had changed in the intervening years since his youth.
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posted by hadjiboy at 7:18 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
A total gentleman, if not a bit *misinformed* of certain aspects in how the world had changed in the intervening years since his youth.
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posted by hadjiboy at 7:18 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
The Duke of Edinburgh Award was a good thing, I think, so
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posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
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posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Celebrating a rich, privileged, upper class racist white male for 'standing by his wife' is a super low bar, no? That's the least he could have done, it's like 'at least he didn't hit his children' level.
Don't really have a horse in this race, but I'm surprised at the pass the whole monarchy thing seems to get here.
posted by signal at 7:26 AM on April 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
Don't really have a horse in this race, but I'm surprised at the pass the whole monarchy thing seems to get here.
posted by signal at 7:26 AM on April 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
One thing I find interesting from the article is that due to Covid, it will probably be a quiet funeral, which should at least save the taxpayers some?
posted by corb at 7:37 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by corb at 7:37 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
The best thing I can say about him is that, by the standards of his time and his birth, Philip was a good man. It's not a compliment, exactly. He was physically brave, forthright, loyal, and generous in a philanthropic way. He believed in duty, not letting the side down, all that sort of thing. And in that same way, he loved his children and grandchildren.
He was also the sort of man who, according to a rumor, once smacked a Secret Service driver on the back of the head with a rolled up newspaper because Washington traffic was backed up and he was driving them too slowly. That's eighteenth-century behavior if I ever heard it. And then, too, the racism and the terrible jokes. I am told he stepped out on Elizabeth, in a extremely buttoned-up way, which too is eighteenth-century. It adds up to his being awful, but in a way that doesn't make me immediately furious, in the way that, say, your average Republican awfulness does. It's an genuine, ancient aristocratic awfulness. And since we have gotten rid of most of the genuine ancient aristocrats, we should be getting rid of that soon.
(Charles is different! He had no excuse. He didn't have to be hidden away; he grew up in the '60s. He could have chosen at any time not to be a knob, but he hasn't. Nor has William.)
posted by Countess Elena at 7:38 AM on April 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
He was also the sort of man who, according to a rumor, once smacked a Secret Service driver on the back of the head with a rolled up newspaper because Washington traffic was backed up and he was driving them too slowly. That's eighteenth-century behavior if I ever heard it. And then, too, the racism and the terrible jokes. I am told he stepped out on Elizabeth, in a extremely buttoned-up way, which too is eighteenth-century. It adds up to his being awful, but in a way that doesn't make me immediately furious, in the way that, say, your average Republican awfulness does. It's an genuine, ancient aristocratic awfulness. And since we have gotten rid of most of the genuine ancient aristocrats, we should be getting rid of that soon.
(Charles is different! He had no excuse. He didn't have to be hidden away; he grew up in the '60s. He could have chosen at any time not to be a knob, but he hasn't. Nor has William.)
posted by Countess Elena at 7:38 AM on April 9, 2021 [32 favorites]
He was also a legit war hero. Not that that excuses his other actions, but there were multiple people who owed their lives to his bravery.
posted by Optamystic at 7:43 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Optamystic at 7:43 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
That's the least he could have done
It's not only the least he could have done, it was, to a great degree, literally his job.
I'm surprised at the pass the whole monarchy thing seems to get here.
Hundreds of years of propaganda distilled down into a vague awareness that we're supposed to be grateful, or at least tolerant, of a line of inbred parasites, who treat the populace like particularly annoying pets on the one hand or a bloated teat on the other. These people use their wealth and power to sexually abuse children (and then cover it up) and prop up arms deals with military regimes, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
But, you know, Matt Smith looked really hot in The Crown, so who cares about the rest, amirite?
posted by fight or flight at 7:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
It's not only the least he could have done, it was, to a great degree, literally his job.
I'm surprised at the pass the whole monarchy thing seems to get here.
Hundreds of years of propaganda distilled down into a vague awareness that we're supposed to be grateful, or at least tolerant, of a line of inbred parasites, who treat the populace like particularly annoying pets on the one hand or a bloated teat on the other. These people use their wealth and power to sexually abuse children (and then cover it up) and prop up arms deals with military regimes, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
But, you know, Matt Smith looked really hot in The Crown, so who cares about the rest, amirite?
posted by fight or flight at 7:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [24 favorites]
Yeah, "not quite as bad as he could have been, probably" is probably about as good as we can honestly do.
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posted by Halloween Jack at 7:45 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
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posted by Halloween Jack at 7:45 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
he asked an Aboriginal businessman [something racist]... many saw his so-called "gaffes" as nothing more than an attempt to lighten the atmosphere and put people at their ease.
The only way you could see Prince Philip's racist comment as "putting people at their ease" is if you don't consider the Aboriginal businessman in the story a person. I thought the BBC was better than that these days.
posted by Nelson at 7:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [40 favorites]
The only way you could see Prince Philip's racist comment as "putting people at their ease" is if you don't consider the Aboriginal businessman in the story a person. I thought the BBC was better than that these days.
posted by Nelson at 7:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [40 favorites]
nubs: While I feel no particular joy or sadness in this moment, the fact that CBC Radio news has gone all somber with sad violin music at the start of every news broadcast feels way over the top.
Puts me in mind of the funeral of Charles VI of France, from Sumption's Cursed Kings:
posted by clawsoon at 7:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Puts me in mind of the funeral of Charles VI of France, from Sumption's Cursed Kings:
Funerals are theatrical spectacles, symbols of loss and continuity, and none more so than the funerals of princes. Charles VI of France was not buried for nearly three weeks after his death.CBC Radio obviously has archives to draw on to remember what they did when George VI died, but I wonder if there was at least a little bit of debate. Things have changed so much; do we still do it like they did it in 1936 or 1952, when they were basically making it up as they went along, since those were the first times they were doing it on radio and TV? Or do we do it like we did in 2002 when the Queen Mother died? (What did they do in 2002?)
The delay was due partly to the fact that it was more than forty years since the last royal funeral. With the disperal of the court and the constant purges of the civil service no one could remember the protocol.
posted by clawsoon at 7:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
We shall not see his like again, if we're lucky.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:52 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:52 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
He was also a legit war hero.
That Wiki entry contains one of my favourite examples of buying the lede:
posted by fight or flight at 7:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
That Wiki entry contains one of my favourite examples of buying the lede:
During the Second World War, he continued to serve in the British forces, while two of his brothers-in-law, Prince Christoph of Hesse and Berthold, Margrave of Baden, fought on the opposing German side.Ah yes, the "opposing German side" which would be..
posted by fight or flight at 7:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [29 favorites]
Northern, Daily Mirror reading dad (who typically adopts Private Eye's habit of referring to the guy as "Phil the Greek") took a bunch of Air Cadets to get their gold Duke of Edinburgh award and, perhaps expecting snobishness, found Phil did a good job of "putting them at their ease". I can imagine a former serviceman would be in his element at that sort of thing.
posted by pw201 at 7:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by pw201 at 7:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I don't know all that much about Prince Philip, but it was pretty disgusting to get a new update about him being dead and a brief, friendly summary of his personality & life every 15 minutes on NPR this morning. They don't devote that much coverage to our military bombing civilians in the Middle East, or children in our country going hungry.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:54 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:54 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
The BBC and CBC have enormously vested interests in keeping old conservative whites happy so they don't come down (even harder) on their funding. I'd argue puff pieces on royalty are a small price to pay but I don't think it's necessarily true -- these racist, colonizing motherfuckers are literally the reason we have so much toxic heritage to try to recover from. If the state-funded media still thinks it has to suck up to the white supremacists so much as to churn out vats of this pabulum, we have barely started down the road towards reconciliation.
Anyway. Philip's dead? Thank U, next.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:56 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Anyway. Philip's dead? Thank U, next.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:56 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
Monarchy is such a weird institution, with a terrible past. At this point in time, I feel some monarchies are doing well compared to presidents. I don't really know if that applies to the house of Windsor, they seem fairly f'ed up.
But, I can see how being born into a royal family is not all silk and roses. By accident after reading this fpp, I clicked on a link about Meghan and Harry and he was complaining about how they didn't get the level of protection they should as royals, and at first I was just laughing. My god, the privilege. But then I "heard" what he was saying, that he had been born into that life, and never asked for it. Think about it: from the first day in your life, all the tabloids will be stalking you, night and day, and you can't ever cop out. That is some weird shit.
As I see it, Prince Phillip was a Harry type of their age. Younger son, handsome and ambitious but with no real choice in life. Racist, well, duh. It will be a challenge to find anyone not racist among European nobility born in 1921. Or among any European white person born in 1921. It is not an excuse, just a fact, indeed a fact that underscores the necessity of fighting racism every day.
Phillip had to give up on a lot of his dreams to marry a crown princess and live 74 years in the public eye. He probably didn't know how that would feel when he married. It was probably an element in why his family is so messed up. I don't see him as a hero or an idol, but he gets my sympathy, as a flawed human being who lived a strange life and tried to do his best.
posted by mumimor at 7:59 AM on April 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
But, I can see how being born into a royal family is not all silk and roses. By accident after reading this fpp, I clicked on a link about Meghan and Harry and he was complaining about how they didn't get the level of protection they should as royals, and at first I was just laughing. My god, the privilege. But then I "heard" what he was saying, that he had been born into that life, and never asked for it. Think about it: from the first day in your life, all the tabloids will be stalking you, night and day, and you can't ever cop out. That is some weird shit.
As I see it, Prince Phillip was a Harry type of their age. Younger son, handsome and ambitious but with no real choice in life. Racist, well, duh. It will be a challenge to find anyone not racist among European nobility born in 1921. Or among any European white person born in 1921. It is not an excuse, just a fact, indeed a fact that underscores the necessity of fighting racism every day.
Phillip had to give up on a lot of his dreams to marry a crown princess and live 74 years in the public eye. He probably didn't know how that would feel when he married. It was probably an element in why his family is so messed up. I don't see him as a hero or an idol, but he gets my sympathy, as a flawed human being who lived a strange life and tried to do his best.
posted by mumimor at 7:59 AM on April 9, 2021 [21 favorites]
mumimor: Racist, well, duh.
The theory of monarchy being that some people are suited to rule because of their bloodlines is basically racism crystallized into an institution. We don't think of that as much today because we've shifted the "races" around to being continental things, but "master race" Aryanism got its start as a racist distinction between European aristocrats and European commoners.
posted by clawsoon at 8:07 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
The theory of monarchy being that some people are suited to rule because of their bloodlines is basically racism crystallized into an institution. We don't think of that as much today because we've shifted the "races" around to being continental things, but "master race" Aryanism got its start as a racist distinction between European aristocrats and European commoners.
posted by clawsoon at 8:07 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Expect many column inches fetishizing the bloodline & much performative flag-humping. Always sad to see someone hop their twig, but in this case I'm struggling to care.
posted by aeshnid at 8:07 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by aeshnid at 8:07 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
.
Good riddance.
Now for the rest of them...
This type of gravedancing that has seemingly become so acceptable on MeFi is disappointing.
posted by fairmettle at 8:08 AM on April 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
Good riddance.
Now for the rest of them...
This type of gravedancing that has seemingly become so acceptable on MeFi is disappointing.
posted by fairmettle at 8:08 AM on April 9, 2021 [39 favorites]
I can't be happy about a prince that didn't actively work to destroy their unjust place at the top of society. Yes, he was a man, but we're not commemorating the lives of random 99-year-olds, are we? It's because he was a prince that there's a single news article about him at all.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:12 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:12 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
I wonder how I would have felt about this had it not been for Matt Smith's portrayal in The Crown
posted by mecran01 at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by mecran01 at 8:15 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
The Guardian's obituary feels balanced, humanizing and refreshingly lacking in hagiography if any MeFites curious about his life are looking for something with more colour than his Wikipedia biography.
posted by mdonley at 8:19 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by mdonley at 8:19 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
.
posted by May Kasahara at 8:27 AM on April 9, 2021
posted by May Kasahara at 8:27 AM on April 9, 2021
The media had 20 years to put this tribute together and they're going to use it, damn it!
posted by greatalleycat at 8:31 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by greatalleycat at 8:31 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
This type of gravedancing that has seemingly become so acceptable on MeFi is disappointing.
Let's be honest: people who contribute more to the world than they take out of it are few and far between, and if you're looking among those who control vast amounts of wealth and power, you may as well be searching for the Loch Ness Monster.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:32 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Let's be honest: people who contribute more to the world than they take out of it are few and far between, and if you're looking among those who control vast amounts of wealth and power, you may as well be searching for the Loch Ness Monster.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:32 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Greek Immigrant Who Lived Off Welfare Dies In England - Waterford Whispers News
"Hailed as hero among the welfare cheating classes of Britain, it is believe the Greek born welfare king has made millions out of his schemes and funded his lavish lifestyle which included castles, yachts and cars, all on the taxpayer’s dime.
“He tried to hide his immigrant status by Anglicising his name, he gained people’s trust after changing it from Battenberg to Mountbatten, he was clearly well versed in the art of conning,” confirmed one policeman.
"Welfare officials confirmed it was hard to pin down Battenberg as he moved around a lot between his various properties acquired through his welfare scams. It is believed Battenberg’s four children, a product of his incestuous marriage to a blood relative, adopted a similar lifestyle and continue to rip off the British taxpayer to this day."
posted by valkane at 8:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [71 favorites]
"Hailed as hero among the welfare cheating classes of Britain, it is believe the Greek born welfare king has made millions out of his schemes and funded his lavish lifestyle which included castles, yachts and cars, all on the taxpayer’s dime.
“He tried to hide his immigrant status by Anglicising his name, he gained people’s trust after changing it from Battenberg to Mountbatten, he was clearly well versed in the art of conning,” confirmed one policeman.
"Welfare officials confirmed it was hard to pin down Battenberg as he moved around a lot between his various properties acquired through his welfare scams. It is believed Battenberg’s four children, a product of his incestuous marriage to a blood relative, adopted a similar lifestyle and continue to rip off the British taxpayer to this day."
posted by valkane at 8:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [71 favorites]
Don't really have a horse in this race, but I'm surprised at the pass the whole monarchy thing seems to get here.
Makes me laugh because in this thread, about the whole Meghan/Harry situation, we got told about how disappointing our undiluted hate of the royal family was.
I revile the idea of royalty, and in general think the British royals are pretty detestable people. I feel no sadness at Philip's passing; however, I take no joy in it either, the same way I'm taking no joy in the unremarked passing of a bunch of other old white men who probably also had racist beliefs, that has happened today. I'm left to wonder why this one death is noteworthy, and why my country, which has an arm's length relationship to the royals at this point, is devoting any significant time to the passing of the man who was the husband of our (figure)head of state. At the same time, I can also note that it is a moment in history, in which a man whose station in life was determined by his birth has departed this mortal coil and that the world has changed greatly during his life, to the point that his passing will become part of an evolving conversation about the relevance of the family and the fundamentally racist, horribly flawed ideals of royal bloodlines (which, I'm beginning to think is the central thesis of The Crown).
posted by nubs at 8:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
Makes me laugh because in this thread, about the whole Meghan/Harry situation, we got told about how disappointing our undiluted hate of the royal family was.
I revile the idea of royalty, and in general think the British royals are pretty detestable people. I feel no sadness at Philip's passing; however, I take no joy in it either, the same way I'm taking no joy in the unremarked passing of a bunch of other old white men who probably also had racist beliefs, that has happened today. I'm left to wonder why this one death is noteworthy, and why my country, which has an arm's length relationship to the royals at this point, is devoting any significant time to the passing of the man who was the husband of our (figure)head of state. At the same time, I can also note that it is a moment in history, in which a man whose station in life was determined by his birth has departed this mortal coil and that the world has changed greatly during his life, to the point that his passing will become part of an evolving conversation about the relevance of the family and the fundamentally racist, horribly flawed ideals of royal bloodlines (which, I'm beginning to think is the central thesis of The Crown).
posted by nubs at 8:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
It will be a challenge to find anyone not racist among European nobility born in 1921. Or among any European white person born in 1921.
A certain amount of unconscious bias is pretty much inevitable, but I have known white Europeans born both shortly before and shortly after Philip who managed never to say racist things for as long as I knew them, and others who did say "typical" racist things but were able to listen to my and others' objections and adjust their behavior. That part isn't inevitable.
(Also a European white person born in 1921 got about as visceral an exposure as possible to what racism can lead to. Not a lesson that everyone learned, but at least a few of the people I was lucky enough to meet did.)
posted by trig at 8:41 AM on April 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
A certain amount of unconscious bias is pretty much inevitable, but I have known white Europeans born both shortly before and shortly after Philip who managed never to say racist things for as long as I knew them, and others who did say "typical" racist things but were able to listen to my and others' objections and adjust their behavior. That part isn't inevitable.
(Also a European white person born in 1921 got about as visceral an exposure as possible to what racism can lead to. Not a lesson that everyone learned, but at least a few of the people I was lucky enough to meet did.)
posted by trig at 8:41 AM on April 9, 2021 [26 favorites]
"Funny" how he went from being the most-problematic royal to one of the least, without actually becoming less terrible.
posted by schmod at 8:42 AM on April 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by schmod at 8:42 AM on April 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
which, I'm beginning to think is the central thesis of The Crown
My frustration with this show is that it was just about Philip's manpain, which I feel definitely is leading some people to forget the RL Philip's awfulness.
posted by TwoStride at 8:42 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
My frustration with this show is that it was just about Philip's manpain, which I feel definitely is leading some people to forget the RL Philip's awfulness.
posted by TwoStride at 8:42 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
The thing that always creeped me out about Prince Philip (aside from his increasingly skeletal bone structure) was the fact that he began dating Elizabeth (via letter) when she was 13.
THIRTEEN.
posted by basalganglia at 8:46 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
THIRTEEN.
posted by basalganglia at 8:46 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
> Gah. BBC World News is wall-to-wall gushing over Phil.
It's annoying but should it be surprising? The BBC is the national broadcaster and founding purpose of its world service is to serve as national propaganda.
They'll make room for critical pieces about the government and national institutions, in part because that helps sustain the message that the nation itself is enlightened and supports a diversity of opinions. But that's only when the stakes are low. The BBC's going to stuff anything contrary to the core mission of national propaganda during a major event like this.
posted by at by at 8:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
It's annoying but should it be surprising? The BBC is the national broadcaster and founding purpose of its world service is to serve as national propaganda.
They'll make room for critical pieces about the government and national institutions, in part because that helps sustain the message that the nation itself is enlightened and supports a diversity of opinions. But that's only when the stakes are low. The BBC's going to stuff anything contrary to the core mission of national propaganda during a major event like this.
posted by at by at 8:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I heard of him as a kid the first time mentioned by William Frawley on a rerun of The Lucy Show, and he's been here this whole time.
posted by StarkRoads at 8:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by StarkRoads at 8:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Yeah, THE FUCK with thirteen?! Maybe he was being encouraged to marry her early on, but she can't have been THAT appealing that young, right? At least they waited until she was legal, I guess.
"Funny" how he went from being the most-problematic royal to one of the least, without actually becoming less terrible.
I was having Deep Thoughts on this topic last night. The British Royal Family has been reality television since basically the dawn of television. Which is kind of odd because most of them are not that attractive or charismatic or interesting or even interested in being such. Probably something like 60% of them are dedicated to keeping their heads down. And yet, these folks consistently have Moar Drama than any other royal family I can think of in the world.
It seems like there's two categories of drama with these people.
(a) The ones born into the family who end up rebelling/struggling/having problems with The System:
* Edward abdicating because they won't let him marry his divorced American mistress. Oh yeah, and NAZI SYMPATHIZER who wanted his crown back.
* Margaret not being allowed to marry a guy for years, finally giving up on the whole thing and hopping into a shitty rebound marriage, which was apparently so bad it forced a divorce into a family that despises divorce (get used to it!).
* Charles trying to comply with the "marry an aristocratic virgin" decree and yet insisting on keeping his married mistress on the side, pretty obviously.
* Andrew managed to be under the radar for decades until Epstein finally got busted.
* Harry hitting his limit and trying to go part time and eventually just quitting altogether.
(b) The ones that marry in, who turn out to be far more attractive/charming/charismatic/caring than the born in Royal Family and then HOO BOY DO THEY GET SHIT ON FOR THAT because GOD FORBID you outshine a bunch of prigs: Diana, Fergie, and Meghan. You have to give Kate credit for managing to marry in and keep her head down there, because that is not a family who wants to welcome in-laws--they just need 'em for the heirs.
So when you've got all of that going on, Philip's occasional bizarre racist crack just falls down the priority list, especially when he's relatively staying quiet most of the time.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:55 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
"Funny" how he went from being the most-problematic royal to one of the least, without actually becoming less terrible.
I was having Deep Thoughts on this topic last night. The British Royal Family has been reality television since basically the dawn of television. Which is kind of odd because most of them are not that attractive or charismatic or interesting or even interested in being such. Probably something like 60% of them are dedicated to keeping their heads down. And yet, these folks consistently have Moar Drama than any other royal family I can think of in the world.
It seems like there's two categories of drama with these people.
(a) The ones born into the family who end up rebelling/struggling/having problems with The System:
* Edward abdicating because they won't let him marry his divorced American mistress. Oh yeah, and NAZI SYMPATHIZER who wanted his crown back.
* Margaret not being allowed to marry a guy for years, finally giving up on the whole thing and hopping into a shitty rebound marriage, which was apparently so bad it forced a divorce into a family that despises divorce (get used to it!).
* Charles trying to comply with the "marry an aristocratic virgin" decree and yet insisting on keeping his married mistress on the side, pretty obviously.
* Andrew managed to be under the radar for decades until Epstein finally got busted.
* Harry hitting his limit and trying to go part time and eventually just quitting altogether.
(b) The ones that marry in, who turn out to be far more attractive/charming/charismatic/caring than the born in Royal Family and then HOO BOY DO THEY GET SHIT ON FOR THAT because GOD FORBID you outshine a bunch of prigs: Diana, Fergie, and Meghan. You have to give Kate credit for managing to marry in and keep her head down there, because that is not a family who wants to welcome in-laws--they just need 'em for the heirs.
So when you've got all of that going on, Philip's occasional bizarre racist crack just falls down the priority list, especially when he's relatively staying quiet most of the time.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:55 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
This type of gravedancing that has seemingly become so acceptable on MeFi is disappointing.
Europe has overthrown hardly any monarchies since the '40s. We're feeling nostalgic for the old days.
posted by clawsoon at 8:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
Europe has overthrown hardly any monarchies since the '40s. We're feeling nostalgic for the old days.
posted by clawsoon at 8:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [20 favorites]
A certain amount of unconscious bias is pretty much inevitable, but I have known white Europeans born both shortly before and shortly after Philip who managed never to say racist things for as long as I knew them, and others who did say "typical" racist things but were able to listen to my and others' objections and adjust their behavior. That part isn't inevitable.
(Also a European white person born in 1921 got about as visceral an exposure as possible to what racism can lead to. Not a lesson that everyone learned, but at least a few of the people I was lucky enough to meet did.)
This will be my last entry in this derail, but I wrote my comment from the point of view of a person who lost family to the holocaust, and had dear relatives who saw themselves as strongly, activist antiracist, but who made racist statements and assumptions all the time, because it was so ingrained. We are not even close to getting through all of the consequences of imperialism, but one way is to acknowledge that even those who fought for change had racist views, because that was the culture.
posted by mumimor at 9:00 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
(Also a European white person born in 1921 got about as visceral an exposure as possible to what racism can lead to. Not a lesson that everyone learned, but at least a few of the people I was lucky enough to meet did.)
This will be my last entry in this derail, but I wrote my comment from the point of view of a person who lost family to the holocaust, and had dear relatives who saw themselves as strongly, activist antiracist, but who made racist statements and assumptions all the time, because it was so ingrained. We are not even close to getting through all of the consequences of imperialism, but one way is to acknowledge that even those who fought for change had racist views, because that was the culture.
posted by mumimor at 9:00 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Not a UK royalist, but have close family members who definitely are, including one who got so excited they fainted in front of me....and the car carrying several senior members of the royal family delaying the royals getting to their event....ambulance involved and all.....fun times. I do feel sorry for the Queen and her loss.
Also a gentle reminder for those outside of Commonwealth countries who often scratch their heads as to why the monarchy is still a thing, that removing the monarchy in Commonwealth nations, although something I support, can be a whole lot more then replacing the flag and coming up with some new titles. There are legitimate constitutional concerns - including indigenous peoples rights where "the Crown" negotiated treaties with indigenous peoples, and what remains - especially as reparations for breaches of those treaties are ongoing - when the Crown is no longer involved. Example breakdown of some of these concerns for New Zealand. Not that we can't do hard things - but it's not easy and sometimes not supported for some of these more nuanced reasons, even to those of us who look at the massive tax avoidance / land holdings / unnecessary expense / irrelevance and wonder why the fuck we are still a monarchy. Not a perfect analogy by any stretch, but imagine a US state rewriting its state Constitution to no longer need to reference the United States or the US Constitution and the absolute mess that discussion would get into quite quickly.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:04 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Also a gentle reminder for those outside of Commonwealth countries who often scratch their heads as to why the monarchy is still a thing, that removing the monarchy in Commonwealth nations, although something I support, can be a whole lot more then replacing the flag and coming up with some new titles. There are legitimate constitutional concerns - including indigenous peoples rights where "the Crown" negotiated treaties with indigenous peoples, and what remains - especially as reparations for breaches of those treaties are ongoing - when the Crown is no longer involved. Example breakdown of some of these concerns for New Zealand. Not that we can't do hard things - but it's not easy and sometimes not supported for some of these more nuanced reasons, even to those of us who look at the massive tax avoidance / land holdings / unnecessary expense / irrelevance and wonder why the fuck we are still a monarchy. Not a perfect analogy by any stretch, but imagine a US state rewriting its state Constitution to no longer need to reference the United States or the US Constitution and the absolute mess that discussion would get into quite quickly.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 9:04 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
From my position in one of the many, many countries that violently threw off the British monarchy's control I can't be upset at someone still under their yoke being happy that one of them has died, especially when it was of natural causes at a ripe old age.
posted by jedicus at 9:05 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 9:05 AM on April 9, 2021 [9 favorites]
The royal family is steeped in and the origin of much racism & colonialism.... but if you want to bring up "power determined by bloodline as an evil", for once you're gonna have to legit cast a seriously wider net than whiteness....
posted by lalochezia at 9:14 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 9:14 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Here is a good summary of what will happen when the Queen dies.
BBC already has a band lined up to play in the sad news.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:16 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
BBC already has a band lined up to play in the sad news.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:16 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Dead? Good. They staked him just to make sure, right? RIGHT?!
posted by evilDoug at 9:21 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by evilDoug at 9:21 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
off with all their heads!
signed, the global south
posted by Tom-B at 9:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
signed, the global south
posted by Tom-B at 9:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Dead? Good. they staked him just to make sure, right? RIGHT?!
I Am Still In The Car (By Prince Philip) (The Onion)
posted by Melismata at 9:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I Am Still In The Car (By Prince Philip) (The Onion)
posted by Melismata at 9:22 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
BBC already has a band lined up to play in the sad news
Good drum face there from Mr Evans.
posted by aesop at 9:24 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Good drum face there from Mr Evans.
posted by aesop at 9:24 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
BBC already has a band lined up to play in the sad news.
Surely?
posted by clawsoon at 9:24 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Surely?
posted by clawsoon at 9:24 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
kind of odd because most of them are not that attractive or charismatic
QEII was a very beautiful young woman, and Phillip was a handsome man.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:25 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
QEII was a very beautiful young woman, and Phillip was a handsome man.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:25 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
For sale: Range Rover, never slightly crashed.
posted by Lanark at 9:25 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 9:25 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Indeed, many saw his so-called "gaffes" as nothing more than an attempt to lighten the atmosphere and put people at their ease."
More like whiten the atmosphere
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:27 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
More like whiten the atmosphere
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:27 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
A pretty typical naval officer of that bygone generation, I’d say, with all the limitations that implies. Everything else you can say is really about the context, rather than the man.
posted by Phanx at 9:31 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 9:31 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
The thing that always creeped me out about Prince Philip (aside from his increasingly skeletal bone structure) was the fact that he began dating Elizabeth (via letter) when she was 13.
Lol, are you trying to trying to provide cover for Prince Andrew?
posted by Borborygmus at 9:31 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Lol, are you trying to trying to provide cover for Prince Andrew?
posted by Borborygmus at 9:31 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
inflatablekiwi raises a good point -- there is a lot more to the question of whether Canada should retain the monarchy than the issue of whether we can just replace the Queen with Wayne Gretzky and move on with our lives. Constitutional amendments of any kind are absolutely fraught with politics and meaning and opening up the Constitution for any change means opening it up for every change, because of the kind of political horsetrading that would likely be involved.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:36 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 9:36 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
No one wants to talk about removing the crown in Canada because of all the treaties that were signed with the crown and the whole subject of crown property. All of that land taken would now be legally be back on the table for First Nations to claim.
Compared to that any constitutional amendment issues would be minor. That is one whopping big reason Canada will be the last to abandon the monarchy.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
Compared to that any constitutional amendment issues would be minor. That is one whopping big reason Canada will be the last to abandon the monarchy.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
It is always about colonialism when you bring up the English monarchy no matter which way you turn.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:54 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:54 AM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
There is also the whole problem of just getting people to act in good faith, make reasonable compromises, and, in general, get things done. In today’s world that seems a tough ask of any government. So I’m guessing the monarchy stays right where it is.
posted by double bubble at 9:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by double bubble at 9:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
these folks consistently have Moar Drama than any other royal family I can think of in the world.
Yeah, I've been doing my own musing, in light of this news, about the current state of monarchy in the world more generally. You've got the UK and the Commonwealth of course. Then you've got the European monarchies that survived or were restored after Napoleon, the various other 19th century tumults, or WWI/WWII and Communism (the Greek crown being a relevant counterexample of one that did not so survive). There are the various monarchies around the Gulf.
Not that I know if or how one might be able to factor in relative population, wealth, and influence of the countries they nominally rule, but the one that stands out for relatively high drama levels is Thailand.
Overall, the less the monarchy is constrained constitutionally, it seems, the more drama you're likely to see. The Windsor monarchy is pretty tightly constrained constitutionally, but has more scope for weirdness given their prominence via the Commonwealth/Anglosphere.
posted by one weird trick at 10:00 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Losing Prince Phillip and DMX on the same day was a horrible blow to a small number of people with an extremely specific combination of interests.
posted by allegedly at 10:07 AM on April 9, 2021 [43 favorites]
posted by allegedly at 10:07 AM on April 9, 2021 [43 favorites]
*
posted by deadaluspark at 10:10 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by deadaluspark at 10:10 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
His 100th birthday would have been in early June. If he had lived just two more months, he would have been eligible to receive a congratulatory letter from the Queen.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:10 AM on April 9, 2021 [48 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:10 AM on April 9, 2021 [48 favorites]
I think a lot of that might just be what we hear about in the anglosphere. The Fug Girls cover the European royals and to a lesser extent non-European royals and they periodically link to the crazy-sauce scandals of various major and minor royals and they are not hard to come by. We just don't hear as much about them, because who really knows who King Albert of Belgium is, never mind that he has a secret love child whose existence he repeatedly denied until he was forced to take a paternity test and now she's suing for the rights and titles she would have been entitled to if she were legitimate. Or the rumours that Princess Charlene tried to run away from Prince Albert of Monaco before and/or after their wedding and was forcibly restrained by his security officers from leaving. Runaway princesses abound in the various royal families of the middle east, as well.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:12 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:12 AM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
True, but I was trying to think of who has the most drama otherwise that I've heard of and Monaco was my #2 for overall crazy, but the Charlene runaway situation seems to have been the most recent drama there and otherwise Monaco hasn't been that crazy for awhile. Though Jordan apparently has shot onto the list this week, surprise. I think the Japanese royal family has Masako being depressed and uh, some princess may be giving up her title if she gets married and the emperor abdicated.
I totally forgot about that Belgium thing :P
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
I totally forgot about that Belgium thing :P
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:15 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
The Nepalese royals had a mass shooting, which, as we have sadly come to understand in America, is the height of male drama. The crown prince who did it died afterward, although he spent three days as king in a coma. His motive is unclear, although he did want to marry someone other than his arranged bride.
posted by Countess Elena at 10:23 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 10:23 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
There is also the whole problem of just getting people to act in good faith, make reasonable compromises, and, in general, get things done. In today’s world that seems a tough ask of any government. So I’m guessing the monarchy stays right where it is.
89% of Canada is crown property. 41% of Canada is crown property controlled by the Federal Government - the rest is controlled by provinces. I think compromise is not going to be the issue here; international law about agreements signed between nations (which includes First Nations) is going to come along real fast, and much of that stuff would have to involve the UK and the Privy Council.
I feel ignoring that as a major reason Canada somehow needs a Governor General in favour of looking at this as an internal fight between provinces over power in a new constitution leans towards forgetting the colonial background of what Canada is as a Nation.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:27 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
89% of Canada is crown property. 41% of Canada is crown property controlled by the Federal Government - the rest is controlled by provinces. I think compromise is not going to be the issue here; international law about agreements signed between nations (which includes First Nations) is going to come along real fast, and much of that stuff would have to involve the UK and the Privy Council.
I feel ignoring that as a major reason Canada somehow needs a Governor General in favour of looking at this as an internal fight between provinces over power in a new constitution leans towards forgetting the colonial background of what Canada is as a Nation.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:27 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I always feel bad when somebody makes it to 99 and then dies short of 100. Getting old is full of pain and indignity, and if you’ve put in the grueling hours to make it that far you might as well have the honor of hitting the milestone. It’s like breaking your ankle at the 25th mile of a marathon.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:34 AM on April 9, 2021 [11 favorites]
.
posted by Kevin Street at 10:49 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Kevin Street at 10:49 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
A sad day for the Prince Philip Movement, a religious sect of around 700 people in Vanuatu who believe that Prince Philip is a divine being.
posted by oulipian at 10:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 10:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
I enjoyed watched how the BBC interrupted programming to make the announcement, including a quick scramble to get presenters into black attire. But Radio 1 dropping the beat into God Save the Queen is pretty solid.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
@MasterChefUK:
"Following today’s sad news about HRH Prince Philip, tonight’s scheduled #MasterChefUK Final has been postponed."
posted by Wordshore at 11:13 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
"Following today’s sad news about HRH Prince Philip, tonight’s scheduled #MasterChefUK Final has been postponed."
posted by Wordshore at 11:13 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Radio 1 dropping the beat into God Save the Queen is pretty solid
They also dj for weddings and bar mitzvahs.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:14 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
They also dj for weddings and bar mitzvahs.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:14 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
.
posted by Lynsey at 11:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Lynsey at 11:20 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
BBC already has a band lined up to play in the sad news.
Surely?
Or...
posted by Paul Slade at 11:35 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Surely?
Or...
posted by Paul Slade at 11:35 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
a family that despises divorce
Another way you can tell they aren't proper English monarchs. Now if you still had a family like your Tudors on the throne, divorce wouldn't just be acceptable, it'd be compulsory.
Foolishness aside...I guess I feel like I quite often do when some public figure dies and many people who I pretty much agree with feel personal antipathy toward them at that moment: sympathetic to the reasons for it but also a bit baffled. It feels like it probably involves some sort of category mistake. Like the structure and the person are getting confused somewhere. I mean, I despise the hierarchical belief system that Prince Philip represented and served. And I despise the way his "gaffes" embodied the failure of empathy for even the most proximate other that defines the British caste system. I despise almost everything he believed in and represented, to be honest, and all of the behaviour those beliefs gave rise to. But...I don't seem to have any feelings about the person on his death. I can't summon up any sadness at his passing, or even particular pity for his family. But equally, I don't feel the sort of glumness at a fucking waste of a life that I occasionally experience when some terrible people die.
Maybe Prince Philip just seems like one of those people who was the sort of terrible I'd expect them to be. While those people are alive their actions can cause me anger, but when they die, they start to immediately feel like history, and just another example of the general failure of imagination that most of the badness in humanity seems to derive from, or at least involve. Maybe just an example of why it matters that we try to be better than that, not just by believing different things, but by being open to changing ourselves in ways that might actually yield improvement.
I dunno.
posted by howfar at 11:40 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
Another way you can tell they aren't proper English monarchs. Now if you still had a family like your Tudors on the throne, divorce wouldn't just be acceptable, it'd be compulsory.
Foolishness aside...I guess I feel like I quite often do when some public figure dies and many people who I pretty much agree with feel personal antipathy toward them at that moment: sympathetic to the reasons for it but also a bit baffled. It feels like it probably involves some sort of category mistake. Like the structure and the person are getting confused somewhere. I mean, I despise the hierarchical belief system that Prince Philip represented and served. And I despise the way his "gaffes" embodied the failure of empathy for even the most proximate other that defines the British caste system. I despise almost everything he believed in and represented, to be honest, and all of the behaviour those beliefs gave rise to. But...I don't seem to have any feelings about the person on his death. I can't summon up any sadness at his passing, or even particular pity for his family. But equally, I don't feel the sort of glumness at a fucking waste of a life that I occasionally experience when some terrible people die.
Maybe Prince Philip just seems like one of those people who was the sort of terrible I'd expect them to be. While those people are alive their actions can cause me anger, but when they die, they start to immediately feel like history, and just another example of the general failure of imagination that most of the badness in humanity seems to derive from, or at least involve. Maybe just an example of why it matters that we try to be better than that, not just by believing different things, but by being open to changing ourselves in ways that might actually yield improvement.
I dunno.
posted by howfar at 11:40 AM on April 9, 2021 [7 favorites]
An eight-day period of mourning has been declared. Normally this would involve all theatres, music halls, gaming parlours and drinking establishments being closed by law. Though now that Britain is in the middle of a COVID lockdown, they will presumably have to make do with blocking Netflix and Animal Crossing at the ISP level and repurposing the BBC detector vans to find people seditiously watching comedy shows on Zoom.
posted by acb at 11:42 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by acb at 11:42 AM on April 9, 2021 [17 favorites]
In all seriousness, given the febrile national culture-war and the post-Brexit spiral of radicalism, I half expect the Daily Mail to use the existence of "disrespectful tweets and Facebook comments" to campaign for Thai-level lèse-majesté laws, to be passed as a matter of urgency as to be in place in advance of LONDON BRIDGE.
posted by acb at 11:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by acb at 11:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
You could abolish the royal family without abolishing the Crown, just bestow the Crown on a tree or something. All the existing constitutional arrangements hold, but are performed by the PM on behalf of the Royal Tree. If it dies you just pick a new tree.
Alternatively, put Her Majesty's corgis on the throne.
posted by BungaDunga at 11:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
Alternatively, put Her Majesty's corgis on the throne.
posted by BungaDunga at 11:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
I have to say I am pretty disappointed in Metafilter that so much of this thread is just jokes about Matt Smith.
Tobias Menzies was way better
posted by saturday_morning at 11:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Tobias Menzies was way better
posted by saturday_morning at 11:44 AM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Now if you still had a family like your Tudors on the throne, divorce wouldn't just be acceptable, it'd be compulsory.
"Henry is also memorable for his chronic wife addiction. He had six wives, all called Catherine. He was a Catherine-aholic — or Catholic, for short."
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
"Henry is also memorable for his chronic wife addiction. He had six wives, all called Catherine. He was a Catherine-aholic — or Catholic, for short."
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:48 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
You could abolish the royal family without abolishing the Crown, just bestow the Crown on a tree or something.
Has any country done this? Most seem to go towards having a President (who's somewhere between a limited-term constitutional-monarch-style figurehead and the centre of the executive). Also, what would this form of government even be called? (Iconocracy or something?)
posted by acb at 11:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
Has any country done this? Most seem to go towards having a President (who's somewhere between a limited-term constitutional-monarch-style figurehead and the centre of the executive). Also, what would this form of government even be called? (Iconocracy or something?)
posted by acb at 11:51 AM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
"Henry is also memorable for his chronic wife addiction. He had six wives, all called Catherine. He was a Catherine-aholic — or Catholic, for short."
Learning about Philomena Cunk has improved my life significantly today.
posted by mumimor at 11:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Learning about Philomena Cunk has improved my life significantly today.
posted by mumimor at 11:53 AM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
The Fug Girls cover the European royals and to a lesser extent non-European royals
The Fug Girls retired their Royals Round-Up coverage because there was so much acrimony (and racism) about any mention of Harry and Meghan.
posted by TwoStride at 11:57 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
The Fug Girls retired their Royals Round-Up coverage because there was so much acrimony (and racism) about any mention of Harry and Meghan.
posted by TwoStride at 11:57 AM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also, what would this form of government even be called? (Iconocracy or something?)
Dendrocracy technically, but arborocracy would also fly if you're okay with mixing your roots
posted by saturday_morning at 11:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Dendrocracy technically, but arborocracy would also fly if you're okay with mixing your roots
posted by saturday_morning at 11:58 AM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Metafilter: like Metafilter at a royal wedding.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:59 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:59 AM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
arborocracy would also fly if you're okay with mixing your roots
Many monarchies are already built around family trees.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:04 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Many monarchies are already built around family trees.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:04 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Alternatively, put Her Majesty's corgis on the throne.
I regret to inform you that the Royal Line of Corgis ended with Willow in 2018, so it would be a contentious decision between the surviving dorgi Candy, and young pretenders like Fergus and Muick.
posted by zamboni at 12:06 PM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
I regret to inform you that the Royal Line of Corgis ended with Willow in 2018, so it would be a contentious decision between the surviving dorgi Candy, and young pretenders like Fergus and Muick.
posted by zamboni at 12:06 PM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Many monarchies are already built around family trees.
And indeed, with mixed roots.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:16 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
And indeed, with mixed roots.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:16 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
I feel ignoring that as a major reason Canada somehow needs a Governor General in favour of looking at this as an internal fight between provinces over power in a new constitution leans towards forgetting the colonial background of what Canada is as a Nation.
Were the UK to abolish the monarchy and toss them to the curb, I nearly think Canada would have to invent a monarch out of whole cloth simply to continue existing, the legal issues are so profound. The fact that there are still largely insolvable existential issues with the indigenous communities and the rest of the governments in the landmass of Canada 154 years on is telling.
I've been on the periphery of some of those claims and rights to title for more than a decade now and it's obvious that these problems aren't going away anytime soon. If the issues were simply about reparations and land settlements, I think we'd have made a lot more progress than we have to date. Right now no one knows how to remove the Colonialism cancer without killing just about all the patients.
posted by bonehead at 12:17 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Were the UK to abolish the monarchy and toss them to the curb, I nearly think Canada would have to invent a monarch out of whole cloth simply to continue existing, the legal issues are so profound. The fact that there are still largely insolvable existential issues with the indigenous communities and the rest of the governments in the landmass of Canada 154 years on is telling.
I've been on the periphery of some of those claims and rights to title for more than a decade now and it's obvious that these problems aren't going away anytime soon. If the issues were simply about reparations and land settlements, I think we'd have made a lot more progress than we have to date. Right now no one knows how to remove the Colonialism cancer without killing just about all the patients.
posted by bonehead at 12:17 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
A total gentleman, if not a bit *misinformed* of certain aspects in how the world had changed in the intervening years since his youth.
Is that what we're calling it now. I thought Metafilter was better than that.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:21 PM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
these folks consistently have Moar Drama than any other royal family I can think of in the world.
Nah, I'm pretty sure the Saudi royal family has them beat. Most other royal families just don't have the whole reality tabloid deal that the British Royal family does, so you find their foibles in the political section rather than the entertainment news, is all.
posted by eviemath at 12:35 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Nah, I'm pretty sure the Saudi royal family has them beat. Most other royal families just don't have the whole reality tabloid deal that the British Royal family does, so you find their foibles in the political section rather than the entertainment news, is all.
posted by eviemath at 12:35 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
You could abolish the royal family without abolishing the Crown, just bestow the Crown on a tree or something.
Yes, except the Crown is already completely separate from the actual monarch, and does not need a corresponding non-legal entity. So I don’t think Canada’s problems are anything like as knotty as they seem. (Also, dude, you have the British royal family. Complaining that no-one says they’re the Canadian royal family is like complaining that everybody says you’re speaking English instead of, like, Canadian.)
posted by Phanx at 12:57 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes, except the Crown is already completely separate from the actual monarch, and does not need a corresponding non-legal entity. So I don’t think Canada’s problems are anything like as knotty as they seem. (Also, dude, you have the British royal family. Complaining that no-one says they’re the Canadian royal family is like complaining that everybody says you’re speaking English instead of, like, Canadian.)
posted by Phanx at 12:57 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
you know, Matt Smith looked really hot in The Crown, so who cares about the rest, amirite?
Hey hey hey, be fair, PP was once a legit hottie.
posted by bq at 1:01 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hey hey hey, be fair, PP was once a legit hottie.
posted by bq at 1:01 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
You could abolish the royal family without abolishing the Crown, just bestow the Crown on a tree or something.
I voted for the McGillicuddy Serious Party in NZ back in the early days of MMP, who wanted to replace the Monarchy with our own Prince Geoffie the Reluctant (which would have no-doubt resulted in unfortunate mix-ups with Prince Joffrey now days- so probably good thing we didn't). The plan was we would have used the Prince's weight in sand as a standard unit of currency (reset monthly). And of course restricting voting age to only those under 18 (the party scheduled all their amazingly outstanding political advert time during kids programming). They had some good policies in retrospect.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 1:02 PM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
I voted for the McGillicuddy Serious Party in NZ back in the early days of MMP, who wanted to replace the Monarchy with our own Prince Geoffie the Reluctant (which would have no-doubt resulted in unfortunate mix-ups with Prince Joffrey now days- so probably good thing we didn't). The plan was we would have used the Prince's weight in sand as a standard unit of currency (reset monthly). And of course restricting voting age to only those under 18 (the party scheduled all their amazingly outstanding political advert time during kids programming). They had some good policies in retrospect.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 1:02 PM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Were the UK to abolish the monarchy and toss them to the curb, I nearly think Canada would have to invent a monarch out of whole cloth simply to continue existing, the legal issues are so profound.
At the very least, to keep up appearances, we would need to pass a law requiring Crown attorneys to wear actual crowns while in court.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:03 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
At the very least, to keep up appearances, we would need to pass a law requiring Crown attorneys to wear actual crowns while in court.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:03 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
As always, I fail to see the reasoned objection to celebrating the demise of a person whose very existence blighted the world.
posted by sinfony at 1:07 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by sinfony at 1:07 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Dendrocracy technically, but arborocracy would also fly if you're okay with mixing your roots
What if you don't make it specifically a tree but any placeholder; it could be a pebble, or a particular shade of turquoise, or a number or something.
posted by acb at 1:08 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
What if you don't make it specifically a tree but any placeholder; it could be a pebble, or a particular shade of turquoise, or a number or something.
posted by acb at 1:08 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
I voted for the McGillicuddy Serious Party in NZ back in the early days of MMP, who wanted to replace the Monarchy with our own Prince Geoffie the Reluctant
Across the Tasman, Australia had a perennial joke candidate who went by the name Murgatroyd. While the question of Australia becoming a republic was current in the 90s, he ran under the banner of the “Imperial British Conservative Party”, campaigning in dress uniform and pith helmet. His compromise proposal was breaking away from the British Crown but adopting one of their lesser royals (Princess Anne, IIRC) as the separate monarch of Australia, in a form of “cadet monarchy” (he cited 19th-century Brazil's local offshoot of the Portuguese monarchy as a precedent).
posted by acb at 1:13 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Across the Tasman, Australia had a perennial joke candidate who went by the name Murgatroyd. While the question of Australia becoming a republic was current in the 90s, he ran under the banner of the “Imperial British Conservative Party”, campaigning in dress uniform and pith helmet. His compromise proposal was breaking away from the British Crown but adopting one of their lesser royals (Princess Anne, IIRC) as the separate monarch of Australia, in a form of “cadet monarchy” (he cited 19th-century Brazil's local offshoot of the Portuguese monarchy as a precedent).
posted by acb at 1:13 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Philip Mountbatten himself was part of a Greek monarchy transferred in from Northern Europe with no prior experience of the country, so you wouldn't need to go all the way to Brazil.
posted by Grangousier at 1:24 PM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 1:24 PM on April 9, 2021 [5 favorites]
Thank God for Netflix - the BBC cancelled Gardeners' World tonight (as well as all its other programming) for back-to-back tributes to the old racist.
(Reminds me of the time in the late 80s when the Queen Mother had fallen ill in late December and my husband and I recorded loads of shows and films (on VHS) just in case the old bird popped her clogs and there'd be nothing on TV over Christmas but Queen Mum tributes. She survived, but we were prepared...)
posted by essexjan at 3:00 PM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
(Reminds me of the time in the late 80s when the Queen Mother had fallen ill in late December and my husband and I recorded loads of shows and films (on VHS) just in case the old bird popped her clogs and there'd be nothing on TV over Christmas but Queen Mum tributes. She survived, but we were prepared...)
posted by essexjan at 3:00 PM on April 9, 2021 [8 favorites]
I will try to shed a tear from my slitty eyes.
Seriously though, looking over this guy's gaffes, it's like there's a direct line from his mix of laughable buffoonery and deadly serious white supremacy to the Pepe the Frog enthusiasts and keking shamen who bludgeoned a Capitol police officer to death.
posted by Borborygmus at 3:03 PM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Seriously though, looking over this guy's gaffes, it's like there's a direct line from his mix of laughable buffoonery and deadly serious white supremacy to the Pepe the Frog enthusiasts and keking shamen who bludgeoned a Capitol police officer to death.
posted by Borborygmus at 3:03 PM on April 9, 2021 [12 favorites]
Losing Prince Phillip and DMX on the same day was a horrible blow to a small number of people with an extremely specific combination of interests.
So I just found out on Metafilter that DMX died...
Prince Phillip was my favourite royal - a no-nonsense, outspoken and traditional man - so I have almost zero interest in the family any more (bar Charles and Camilla). I'm just upset for The Queen because despite him being a cheating shit in the 50s, he grew up to become a good, solid companion to her. I'm also upset for Prince Charles (now we know why he was crying in the car). Hopefully they resolved their complicated relationship before it was too late.
Also, i'm not normally this shallow but Phil the Greek was an extremely handsome man - a very rare thing not just in the monarchy but in the public eye generally. It's not often I get the chance to be 'taken aback' by a man's looks. The Queen must have loved banging him.
This is not really how I expected the post to end but anyway... R.I.P.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 3:14 PM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
So I just found out on Metafilter that DMX died...
Prince Phillip was my favourite royal - a no-nonsense, outspoken and traditional man - so I have almost zero interest in the family any more (bar Charles and Camilla). I'm just upset for The Queen because despite him being a cheating shit in the 50s, he grew up to become a good, solid companion to her. I'm also upset for Prince Charles (now we know why he was crying in the car). Hopefully they resolved their complicated relationship before it was too late.
Also, i'm not normally this shallow but Phil the Greek was an extremely handsome man - a very rare thing not just in the monarchy but in the public eye generally. It's not often I get the chance to be 'taken aback' by a man's looks. The Queen must have loved banging him.
This is not really how I expected the post to end but anyway... R.I.P.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 3:14 PM on April 9, 2021 [14 favorites]
.
I rather liked the old bastard. As someone says upthread, he had the typical attitudes of a naval officer of his generation. My late father, a naval rating of the same generation with as lot of the same attitudes, generally loathed the royals, but loathed him slightly less than the others. When i was a kid, he used to call the Queen Mother, Queen and Philip (who always appeared as a set on telly in those days) "the Old Goat, the Young Goat and four-paces-behind".
Now I'm off to stock up on podcasts for when his missus goes..
posted by Fuchsoid at 3:19 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I rather liked the old bastard. As someone says upthread, he had the typical attitudes of a naval officer of his generation. My late father, a naval rating of the same generation with as lot of the same attitudes, generally loathed the royals, but loathed him slightly less than the others. When i was a kid, he used to call the Queen Mother, Queen and Philip (who always appeared as a set on telly in those days) "the Old Goat, the Young Goat and four-paces-behind".
Now I'm off to stock up on podcasts for when his missus goes..
posted by Fuchsoid at 3:19 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Last year the Royal Poetry Foundation had a contest entitled "Do we need royalty?"
I sent this in. I didn't win.
The Aristocrats
Crime in the streets!
Firing up his seventh cranial nerve
the hero-prince scowled, he scowled
at the headline
using twelve facial muscles, twelve
more than he had used
when considering his morning cup of tea.
More muscles than he ever dared to twitch
during any typical breakfast.
His tea, hardly passive to this news,
trembled at the prospect
of
Crime in the streets!
Was it the prince's duty to scowl?
No, beyond duty, beyond the call of honor:
he bore the nation's botheration
steeped upon his brow.
Who needs royalty? you might ask.
You might well ask: who needs celebrities?
Who else will we go to for opinions uninformed? What other homeopathic draught will keep our brains inflated? What other flypaper will trap the paparazzi?
Imagine empty royal vestments
like puddles on the floor.
He carries the burden of the genes of a millennium,
23 pairs of chromosomes, never splitting, never shared,
compounding again and again
passed down from each ancestral birth until
he, the prince, is nothing but genes.
The muscles of his face, exhausted,
droop like those of his Shar-Pei,
who sits besides his master's leg.
The prince offers him the newspaper
to piddle upon,
then joins him
making puddles on the floor.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:27 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
I sent this in. I didn't win.
The Aristocrats
Crime in the streets!
Firing up his seventh cranial nerve
the hero-prince scowled, he scowled
at the headline
using twelve facial muscles, twelve
more than he had used
when considering his morning cup of tea.
More muscles than he ever dared to twitch
during any typical breakfast.
His tea, hardly passive to this news,
trembled at the prospect
of
Crime in the streets!
Was it the prince's duty to scowl?
No, beyond duty, beyond the call of honor:
he bore the nation's botheration
steeped upon his brow.
Who needs royalty? you might ask.
You might well ask: who needs celebrities?
Who else will we go to for opinions uninformed? What other homeopathic draught will keep our brains inflated? What other flypaper will trap the paparazzi?
Imagine empty royal vestments
like puddles on the floor.
He carries the burden of the genes of a millennium,
23 pairs of chromosomes, never splitting, never shared,
compounding again and again
passed down from each ancestral birth until
he, the prince, is nothing but genes.
The muscles of his face, exhausted,
droop like those of his Shar-Pei,
who sits besides his master's leg.
The prince offers him the newspaper
to piddle upon,
then joins him
making puddles on the floor.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:27 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
In truly sad royal news, "Korea's King of Ramen," Nongshim founder Shin Choon Ho dies at age 92.
posted by clawsoon at 4:02 PM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 4:02 PM on April 9, 2021 [10 favorites]
Rip Pip, wood chip.
posted by dumbland at 4:13 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by dumbland at 4:13 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
“In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, to contribute something to solving overpopulation.”
Hindu and Buddhist cosmologies account for the growing population around the world by explaining that reincarnation can involve time travel.
posted by ocschwar at 4:26 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
Hindu and Buddhist cosmologies account for the growing population around the world by explaining that reincarnation can involve time travel.
posted by ocschwar at 4:26 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
89% of Canada is crown property.
Really? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just...holy shit!
A post about land ownership and use in Canada would be super interesting. Just saying.
posted by medusa at 5:08 PM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
Really? I'm not saying I don't believe you, I just...holy shit!
A post about land ownership and use in Canada would be super interesting. Just saying.
posted by medusa at 5:08 PM on April 9, 2021 [6 favorites]
That Harry and Meghan had to come out and announce that it was a different royal racist who was worried about their baby's skin colour is kind of telling.
posted by srboisvert at 5:46 PM on April 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 5:46 PM on April 9, 2021 [13 favorites]
if you're looking among those who control vast amounts of wealth and power, you may as well be searching for the Loch Ness Monster
So, you're saying there's a chance?
posted by twidget at 6:15 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
So, you're saying there's a chance?
posted by twidget at 6:15 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
What if you don't make it specifically a tree but any placeholder; it could be a pebble, or a particular shade of turquoise, or a number or something.
Or, maybe it could be - and I might be going way out on a limb here - it could be a crown. Maybe even THE crown. Just bow to the inevitable and turn metaphor into reality.
posted by double bubble at 6:34 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Or, maybe it could be - and I might be going way out on a limb here - it could be a crown. Maybe even THE crown. Just bow to the inevitable and turn metaphor into reality.
posted by double bubble at 6:34 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
you may as well be searching for the Loch Ness Monster
a chance, yes.
My grandmother was a fan of the queen, but not the extended monarchy or even peerage but she was of an older generation then Phillip. Since her maiden name was Bowes, she had that related 245 times removed twice add a hyphen thing going in the 1920s. But she never liked Philip, called him a widget. She was the one who first told me about his Victorianesque sing-song comments, just plain outmoded like he skipped the film strip on the Edwardian era. Still, condolences to the queen.
posted by clavdivs at 6:40 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
a chance, yes.
My grandmother was a fan of the queen, but not the extended monarchy or even peerage but she was of an older generation then Phillip. Since her maiden name was Bowes, she had that related 245 times removed twice add a hyphen thing going in the 1920s. But she never liked Philip, called him a widget. She was the one who first told me about his Victorianesque sing-song comments, just plain outmoded like he skipped the film strip on the Edwardian era. Still, condolences to the queen.
posted by clavdivs at 6:40 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
medusa: A post about land ownership and use in Canada would be super interesting. Just saying.
'Cause we've got
Rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And water
Also:
Rocks and trees
Trees and rocks
If you've driven 17 you see lots
Though I dearly love this land
I have stood all I can stand
Of rocks and trees
Trees and rocks
Rocks and trees
Trees and rocks
Reams and reams of endless trees and tons of rocks
posted by clawsoon at 7:13 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
'Cause we've got
Rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And rocks and trees
And trees and rocks
And water
Also:
Rocks and trees
Trees and rocks
If you've driven 17 you see lots
Though I dearly love this land
I have stood all I can stand
Of rocks and trees
Trees and rocks
Rocks and trees
Trees and rocks
Reams and reams of endless trees and tons of rocks
posted by clawsoon at 7:13 PM on April 9, 2021 [4 favorites]
Wasn’t it Canadian debutantes who found themselves ritually curtsying to a cake in some post-Viceregal confusion?
posted by clew at 7:47 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by clew at 7:47 PM on April 9, 2021 [2 favorites]
Part of him will always remain in Buckingham Palace, no matter what cleaners and scrubbers they try.
posted by delfin at 9:55 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:55 PM on April 9, 2021 [3 favorites]
(My first thought was "At least now they can replace that poor pig's head with something a bit fresher," but that was rather unsporting.)
posted by delfin at 9:56 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by delfin at 9:56 PM on April 9, 2021 [1 favorite]
these folks consistently have Moar Drama than any other royal family I can think of in the world.
Dude. Check out Thailand. The king has three ex-wives, one current wife, and an official consort, whose royal title was mysteriously stripped and restored over the past couple of years. Also, he holds an extraordinary amount of power for a king in a modern democracy. Also, he lives in Germany.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:35 PM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Dude. Check out Thailand. The king has three ex-wives, one current wife, and an official consort, whose royal title was mysteriously stripped and restored over the past couple of years. Also, he holds an extraordinary amount of power for a king in a modern democracy. Also, he lives in Germany.
posted by mr_roboto at 10:35 PM on April 9, 2021 [16 favorites]
Anytime a monarch dies with their head still attached to their body I feel we’ve failed somehow.
posted by interogative mood at 10:51 PM on April 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 10:51 PM on April 9, 2021 [15 favorites]
This type of gravedancing that has seemingly become so acceptable on MeFi is disappointing.
You don't see it in the DMX thread. Because he wasn't a racist parasite.
Celebrate when evil people die.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:16 AM on April 10, 2021 [16 favorites]
You don't see it in the DMX thread. Because he wasn't a racist parasite.
Celebrate when evil people die.
posted by MartinWisse at 2:16 AM on April 10, 2021 [16 favorites]
Anyway, when George VI died, they made sure he died in time for the proper papers to get the scoop by giving him a speedball.
So you wonder, eh?
posted by MartinWisse at 2:17 AM on April 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
So you wonder, eh?
posted by MartinWisse at 2:17 AM on April 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
Anytime a monarch dies with their head still attached to their body I feel we’ve failed somehow.
I'm not keen on the symbolism of beheading. As a traditional punishment for treason, its use against monarchs (and their consorts) is typically by other monarchs, not revolutionaries. While I see the symbolic power of punishing royalty for treason, I also think that the idea of treason, even as a crime against "the people", is part of the ideology that any successful revolution would need to dismantle.
Maybe a more fitting punishment for the sins of royalty is what has actually happened to Elizabeth II and Prince Philip: living into the bit of history where the inane bullshit and tawdry hypocrisy of royalty has been exposed. When feeling vindictive I'd rather royalty were confronted, in dying, with the reality of their modern worthlessness and shame than symbols of their historical significance.
If we are going to behead any English royals, however, I suggest a middle way, and that we decapitate them with a scaled up Pizza Express pizza cutter.
posted by howfar at 2:37 AM on April 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm not keen on the symbolism of beheading. As a traditional punishment for treason, its use against monarchs (and their consorts) is typically by other monarchs, not revolutionaries. While I see the symbolic power of punishing royalty for treason, I also think that the idea of treason, even as a crime against "the people", is part of the ideology that any successful revolution would need to dismantle.
Maybe a more fitting punishment for the sins of royalty is what has actually happened to Elizabeth II and Prince Philip: living into the bit of history where the inane bullshit and tawdry hypocrisy of royalty has been exposed. When feeling vindictive I'd rather royalty were confronted, in dying, with the reality of their modern worthlessness and shame than symbols of their historical significance.
If we are going to behead any English royals, however, I suggest a middle way, and that we decapitate them with a scaled up Pizza Express pizza cutter.
posted by howfar at 2:37 AM on April 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
The theory of monarchy being that some people are suited to rule because of their bloodlines is basically racism crystallized into an institution. We don't think of that as much today because we've shifted the "races" around to being continental things, but "master race" Aryanism got its start as a racist distinction between European aristocrats and European commoners.
One of the messages of Tarzan was the orphaned boy not only survived, but thrived and rose to the top — not just because he was white, but that he was a British aristocrat. The story has it that his superiority was innate; something apart from his family's privileges.
posted by rochrobbb at 4:27 AM on April 10, 2021 [8 favorites]
One of the messages of Tarzan was the orphaned boy not only survived, but thrived and rose to the top — not just because he was white, but that he was a British aristocrat. The story has it that his superiority was innate; something apart from his family's privileges.
posted by rochrobbb at 4:27 AM on April 10, 2021 [8 favorites]
Meanwhile, in Australia, an ABC music channel preempted a planned tribute to recently deceased musician Daphne Camf for simulcasts of the royal hagiography from the main ABC channels. I'm not sure whether they're obeying some imperial-era laws last tested during the Menzies government or preemptively folding to the conservative government and/or Murdoch press before their budget gets cut any further.
posted by acb at 4:48 AM on April 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:48 AM on April 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
A month old and about Harry and Megan but kind of relevant.
Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown.
posted by night_train at 5:37 AM on April 10, 2021 [11 favorites]
Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown.
posted by night_train at 5:37 AM on April 10, 2021 [11 favorites]
Normally this would involve all theatres, music halls, gaming parlours and drinking establishments being closed by law.
Wait, what? Is this serious?
posted by corb at 7:02 AM on April 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
Wait, what? Is this serious?
posted by corb at 7:02 AM on April 10, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm just hoping dontopedology makes it into the Oxford dictionary, or at least Merriam-Webster.
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 7:30 AM on April 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 7:30 AM on April 10, 2021 [1 favorite]
From BoingBoing: Australian comedian Lewis Spears was on-stage mocking Prince Philip only to have an unusual audience response: "he just died!" Talk about perfect comic timing.
posted by ShooBoo at 3:21 PM on April 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by ShooBoo at 3:21 PM on April 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
I believe that is what they call a 360⁰ pivot.
posted by acb at 4:12 PM on April 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:12 PM on April 10, 2021 [2 favorites]
Meanwhile, after reading cstross' summary and the foreshadowing that LONDON BRIDGE may come sooner than we care to think, it occurred to me that I should probably buy that Queen Elizabeth I EAT SWANS coffee mug (to accompany the William and Kate royal wedding mug with the wrong prince on it) before it becomes historical tat. I searched for it, only to find that the links to it now 404.
posted by acb at 5:25 PM on April 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:25 PM on April 10, 2021 [3 favorites]
awful, but in a way that doesn't make me immediately furious, in the way that, say, your average Republican awfulness does. It's an genuine, ancient aristocratic awfulness.
people will really say this out loud as if it is reasonable to prefer the latter to the former and it is absolutely shocking.
genuine aristocrats aren't play-time dollhouse figurines, they are real living (philip, now slightly less so) people whose bigotry is somehow cuter than others' bigotry to some people, because they have better tailors and accents one hears on the better television programmes, and because they have been being monstrous for much longer. contemptible
a self-made bigot is no better, but at least he figured out his own filthy ideas instead of inheriting them wholesale.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:13 PM on April 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
people will really say this out loud as if it is reasonable to prefer the latter to the former and it is absolutely shocking.
genuine aristocrats aren't play-time dollhouse figurines, they are real living (philip, now slightly less so) people whose bigotry is somehow cuter than others' bigotry to some people, because they have better tailors and accents one hears on the better television programmes, and because they have been being monstrous for much longer. contemptible
a self-made bigot is no better, but at least he figured out his own filthy ideas instead of inheriting them wholesale.
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:13 PM on April 10, 2021 [7 favorites]
Yep. If you are not old money yourself, despising the nouveau riche for doing exactly what the old money does is a sign of how the old money have shaped the culture around them INCLUDING YOU. You may perceive the aristos as charming/bluff/eccentric/forthright etc, and that's part of the propaganda of the class machine.
I mean literally we say of these characters "at least they have CLASS". Think about it.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:08 AM on April 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
I mean literally we say of these characters "at least they have CLASS". Think about it.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:08 AM on April 11, 2021 [7 favorites]
I think "at least they've managed to plan more than five years ahead." That singular quality doesn't make up for all the rest, but at least it's something compared to the more recently ascended asshats. After all, one of the biggest drivers of our decaying infrastructure and increasing class inequality is short sightedness.
The only good that lack of any ability to care about the future has brought is the increasing awareness of how fucked the system we live under really is. It has come at a great cost, however.
posted by wierdo at 3:44 AM on April 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
The only good that lack of any ability to care about the future has brought is the increasing awareness of how fucked the system we live under really is. It has come at a great cost, however.
posted by wierdo at 3:44 AM on April 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
So 30 people at the funeral- any idea who any of them will be? Liz and the four kids, that's 5, wills and Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie maybe?
posted by freethefeet at 4:04 AM on April 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by freethefeet at 4:04 AM on April 11, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh and: BBC sets up website to field complaints over 'too much' Prince Philip coverage, ABC viewers criticise decision to cut into crime drama Vera
posted by freethefeet at 4:06 AM on April 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by freethefeet at 4:06 AM on April 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
In a sense, Prince Philip is the Princess Di of Brexitland, the People's Prince 2021 Britain deserves. As Lady Diana—youthful, glamorous, relatably insecure, and caring about people in the way those around her didn't—embodied, in retrospect, the mood of the lifting of the dead hand of Thatcherism in the Cool Britannia New Labour Spring (how little we knew!), Philip—a geriatric racist who, even while alive, looked uncannily out of place among the living, known for his callous “gaffes” and celebrated by taxi drivers and pub bores across the country for his “robust views”—embodies the identity of post-Brexit Britain. (Full disclosure: self-link)
posted by acb at 5:24 AM on April 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:24 AM on April 11, 2021 [9 favorites]
So 30 people at the funeral- any idea who any of them will be? Liz and the four kids, that's 5, wills and Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie maybe?
Liz, the kids and their spouses (minus Fergie), and the grandkids and their spouses (minus Meghan and Autumn Phillips) makes 20. It seems unlikely that any of the great-grandkids are old enough to attend, so that leaves room for other family members or friends...I think he spent a lot of time with Penelope Knatchbull in recent years. Probably some of the Kents and Gloucesters, maybe Margaret's kids? He has nieces and nephews of his own family who are still living. I've never heard that he was close to any of them but who knows?
posted by Preserver at 8:27 AM on April 11, 2021
Liz, the kids and their spouses (minus Fergie), and the grandkids and their spouses (minus Meghan and Autumn Phillips) makes 20. It seems unlikely that any of the great-grandkids are old enough to attend, so that leaves room for other family members or friends...I think he spent a lot of time with Penelope Knatchbull in recent years. Probably some of the Kents and Gloucesters, maybe Margaret's kids? He has nieces and nephews of his own family who are still living. I've never heard that he was close to any of them but who knows?
posted by Preserver at 8:27 AM on April 11, 2021
My guess would be some commonwealth quasi heads of state or heads of government. But not our quasi head of state because she quit before she could be fired.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:04 AM on April 11, 2021
posted by jacquilynne at 10:04 AM on April 11, 2021
Wait, what? Is this serious?
To the best of my knowledge, no. I believe that music halls and theatres were required to close on the day of Queen Victoria's death, and this seems to have set a precedent in people's minds that resulted in the voluntary closure of similar establishments on the day Edward VII died, and may possibly (I dunno) have been echoed in the two deaths of reigning monarchs (Georges V & VI, because Edward VIII buggered off) since then, but I don't think there were any further official closures of this type during periods of general mourning. I don't recall anything closing even voluntarily when the last queen mother died, and she was a royal consort who was actually popular with a clear majority of people.
I also don't know of any mechanism by which it could happen apart from new legislation, as I don't think there are any statutory powers covering it, and the residual independent authority of the Crown doesn't really amount to much at all, and certainly not to public order issues.
So, while it's not theoretically impossible, as an Act of Parliament can be passed in two days (one for the Commons and one for the Lords. I'm not sure if it could be done in less), I don't think the periods of official mourning since the end of the Victorian era suggest that it's something that would ever be a serious possibility. There's certainly nothing but some general guidance coming from HMG, and nothing in that suggests that businesses might choose to close, with the exception of indicating that sporting fixtures could be cancelled at the discretion of organisers (but again, I'm pretty sure professional sport largely continued when the Queen Mother died, so I'd be surprised if much/any professional sport stops).
posted by howfar at 11:22 AM on April 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
To the best of my knowledge, no. I believe that music halls and theatres were required to close on the day of Queen Victoria's death, and this seems to have set a precedent in people's minds that resulted in the voluntary closure of similar establishments on the day Edward VII died, and may possibly (I dunno) have been echoed in the two deaths of reigning monarchs (Georges V & VI, because Edward VIII buggered off) since then, but I don't think there were any further official closures of this type during periods of general mourning. I don't recall anything closing even voluntarily when the last queen mother died, and she was a royal consort who was actually popular with a clear majority of people.
I also don't know of any mechanism by which it could happen apart from new legislation, as I don't think there are any statutory powers covering it, and the residual independent authority of the Crown doesn't really amount to much at all, and certainly not to public order issues.
So, while it's not theoretically impossible, as an Act of Parliament can be passed in two days (one for the Commons and one for the Lords. I'm not sure if it could be done in less), I don't think the periods of official mourning since the end of the Victorian era suggest that it's something that would ever be a serious possibility. There's certainly nothing but some general guidance coming from HMG, and nothing in that suggests that businesses might choose to close, with the exception of indicating that sporting fixtures could be cancelled at the discretion of organisers (but again, I'm pretty sure professional sport largely continued when the Queen Mother died, so I'd be surprised if much/any professional sport stops).
posted by howfar at 11:22 AM on April 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
“Uncannily out of place among the living” is my new favorite phrase.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:33 AM on April 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:33 AM on April 11, 2021 [2 favorites]
The theory of monarchy being that some people are suited to rule because of their bloodlines is basically racism crystallized into an institution.
That is not the theory.
3000 years ago or so, the Israelites had a loose tribal confederacy. Any time an outside threat moved in, the tribes united behind a general of the moment, whom they called "judge." That period is written about in the Book of Judges. This model of governance was getting less tenable as those outside threats coalesced into new empires, and the Israelites started talking about monarchy. The son of a prior Judge volunteers. And he does not take long to prove himself unfit. Along comes another Biblical figure to explain what had just happened:
Once the trees went forth to anoint a king over them, and they said to the olive tree, “Reign over us!”
But the olive tree said to them, “Shall I leave my fatness with which God and men are honored, and go to wave over the trees?”
Then the trees said to the fig tree, “You come, reign over us!”
But the fig tree said to them, “Shall I leave my sweetness and my good fruit, and go to wave over the trees?”
Then the trees said to the vine, “You come, reign over us!”
But the vine said to them, “Shall I leave my new wine, which cheers God and men, and go to wave over the trees?”
Finally all the trees said to the bramble, “You come, reign over us!”
The bramble said to the trees, “If in truth you are anointing me as king over you, come and take refuge in my shade; but if not, may fire come out from the bramble and consume the cedars of Lebanon.” (Judges 9:8-15, NASB)
Point being: people who actively seek this kind of power are by definition unfit for it, because they are willing to inflict on their people the suffering that comes with a contest for the crown. You're better off with a princeling raised for the office, specifically because he didn't pick the job. History bears out how the founder of a dynasty is almost always a sociopath. His children, however, are working to keep a crown, not win it. That's the theory. It's been rendered somewhat obsolete by constitutional checks and balances and widespread literacy enabled by moveable type, but then 2016 happened, and well... it makes me understand why monarchy was the thing for so long.
posted by ocschwar at 7:55 PM on April 11, 2021 [3 favorites]
That is justified by the sliver of British mythology that asserts that the British people are descencants of the Lost Tribes of Israel, though not necessarily the other two (the one that asserts that Britain was founded by Brutus the Trojan and the one that traces the bloodline of the Royal Family back to Odin).
posted by acb at 1:07 AM on April 12, 2021
posted by acb at 1:07 AM on April 12, 2021
You're better off with a princeling raised for the office, specifically because he didn't pick the job. History bears out how the founder of a dynasty is almost always a sociopath.
Um. History also bears out how often said princelings are sociopaths. Whether they're heirs fighting to keep the crown or non-heirs fighting to get it. Or just princelings raised not to think of other people as people. And when they're not sociopaths, half the time they're sufficiently weak or unsuited for the job that the sociopaths around them wield the actual power. Monarchies were a thing for so long because of a concentration of brute force that required consistent applications of said force to preserve itself, not because they were in some way a good or stable configuration optimized for the well-being of the public. What long-term benevolent, stable, non-sociopathic dynasties are you thinking of? Are they ones largely penned in by constitutions and parliaments?
posted by trig at 3:25 AM on April 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
Um. History also bears out how often said princelings are sociopaths. Whether they're heirs fighting to keep the crown or non-heirs fighting to get it. Or just princelings raised not to think of other people as people. And when they're not sociopaths, half the time they're sufficiently weak or unsuited for the job that the sociopaths around them wield the actual power. Monarchies were a thing for so long because of a concentration of brute force that required consistent applications of said force to preserve itself, not because they were in some way a good or stable configuration optimized for the well-being of the public. What long-term benevolent, stable, non-sociopathic dynasties are you thinking of? Are they ones largely penned in by constitutions and parliaments?
posted by trig at 3:25 AM on April 12, 2021 [7 favorites]
(Maybe I read your comment wrong and you meant only to point out a theory, not to endorse it. But I'd argue that the idea of kings being uniquely suited for the job because they didn't seek it is not only ridiculous on its face - you might as well pick random people from the public, as has actually been done on occasion - but also one of the myths that monarchies spread about themselves to shore up their claims to legitimacy, coexisting with but not replacing the ones about special bloodlines and being representatives of God.)
posted by trig at 3:36 AM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by trig at 3:36 AM on April 12, 2021 [5 favorites]
Also, this would be trivially debunked by playing or watching one game of Crusader Kings 3.
posted by acb at 3:47 AM on April 12, 2021
posted by acb at 3:47 AM on April 12, 2021
Meanwhile, National Rail turned its website grey for the period of mourning, without checking whether it breaks accessibility. (Spoiler: it does.)
Surely after this, the necessity of preparing properly accessible grey stylesheets for national periods of mourning will be added to all British web-design curricula as a matter of urgency, and the British Standards Institute will work with the Protocol Office to establish a standard for mourning colour schemes for user interfaces. Perhaps they'll have several schemes, depending on the rank of the deceased royal.
posted by acb at 5:13 AM on April 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Surely after this, the necessity of preparing properly accessible grey stylesheets for national periods of mourning will be added to all British web-design curricula as a matter of urgency, and the British Standards Institute will work with the Protocol Office to establish a standard for mourning colour schemes for user interfaces. Perhaps they'll have several schemes, depending on the rank of the deceased royal.
posted by acb at 5:13 AM on April 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Were the UK to abolish the monarchy and toss them to the curb, I nearly think Canada would have to invent a monarch out of whole cloth simply to continue existing, the legal issues are so profound.
Drake’s right there, man.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:21 AM on April 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Drake’s right there, man.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:21 AM on April 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
I didn't know that an interest in underage girls was an official part of the job description.
posted by acb at 5:32 AM on April 12, 2021
posted by acb at 5:32 AM on April 12, 2021
History bears out how the founder of a dynasty is almost always a sociopath.
Given this observation it's probably worth noting the high apparent heritability of antisocial and sociopathic personality traits. While some or much of this apparent heritability may, in fact, be linked to environmental conditions, that doesn't provide any comfort, as dynastic founders are exceptionally well-placed to create and ensure the intergenerational survival of such conditions. The British monarchy has certainly managed to ensure the brutalisation of most royals pretty effectively.
Every time I think about the issue of how you distribute power I'm led back to the view that sortition is the only approach that isn't inherently flawed. Yes, it has practical challenges, but at least they don't run to its very heart.
posted by howfar at 6:33 AM on April 12, 2021
Given this observation it's probably worth noting the high apparent heritability of antisocial and sociopathic personality traits. While some or much of this apparent heritability may, in fact, be linked to environmental conditions, that doesn't provide any comfort, as dynastic founders are exceptionally well-placed to create and ensure the intergenerational survival of such conditions. The British monarchy has certainly managed to ensure the brutalisation of most royals pretty effectively.
Every time I think about the issue of how you distribute power I'm led back to the view that sortition is the only approach that isn't inherently flawed. Yes, it has practical challenges, but at least they don't run to its very heart.
posted by howfar at 6:33 AM on April 12, 2021
Um. History also bears out how often said princelings are sociopaths.
The last war for British succession was in 1745. That's almost 300 years of British royals not inflcting that on their country. 12 (or so) reigns of not-as-bad.
posted by ocschwar at 7:34 AM on April 12, 2021
The last war for British succession was in 1745. That's almost 300 years of British royals not inflcting that on their country. 12 (or so) reigns of not-as-bad.
posted by ocschwar at 7:34 AM on April 12, 2021
But I'd argue that the idea of kings being uniquely suited for the job because they didn't seek it is not only ridiculous on its face
It's only ridiculous on its face if you have faith in a peaceful transition of power. Otherwise the king is uniquely suitable for the job just because he presently has it.
George Washington's resignation from the Continental Army and afterwards his handoff of the presidency were profoundly shocking events because they were unprecedented peaceful transitions. Before that, the value of bowing to your king, no matter how mediocre a person he is, was self-evident.
And if I had to choose between monarchy and a repeat of January 6th every four years, well, it's a toss up.
posted by ocschwar at 7:41 AM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's only ridiculous on its face if you have faith in a peaceful transition of power. Otherwise the king is uniquely suitable for the job just because he presently has it.
George Washington's resignation from the Continental Army and afterwards his handoff of the presidency were profoundly shocking events because they were unprecedented peaceful transitions. Before that, the value of bowing to your king, no matter how mediocre a person he is, was self-evident.
And if I had to choose between monarchy and a repeat of January 6th every four years, well, it's a toss up.
posted by ocschwar at 7:41 AM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Well, there's Kaiser Wilhelm II, who came out of Queen Victoria's educated and liberal daughter Vicky--who would have been queen under today's laws, instead of her dull brother Bertie, and a good one--fell into bad right-wing company, and laid waste to the Western world. Young Victoria and her husband specifically set out to raise an enlightened monarch, and for their troubles they got Kaiser Bill, who spent his whole life overcompensating for a bad arm and blaming the British for the British doctor who could have prevented it.
Also, if the Duke of Windsor had thrown over Wallis or gotten his way about her, that would have put a Nazi sympathizer (or a pair of them) on the British throne in time for World War II.
My point is, British monarchs needed the fear of God or Cromwell in them, too, and I think Philip was aware of this and tried to retrench financially and PR-wise. In that, he failed miserably. Whether Charles's poor PR ratings will destroy the monarchy, I doubt, but it's not impossible. Princes should be people who are not too good to stand in the line at Au Bon Pain (as some Dutch prince did while attending school near where I lived). If Louis can become the kind of prince who does his own shopping and has marketable skills like the Dutch royals, they will be better off.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:44 AM on April 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also, if the Duke of Windsor had thrown over Wallis or gotten his way about her, that would have put a Nazi sympathizer (or a pair of them) on the British throne in time for World War II.
My point is, British monarchs needed the fear of God or Cromwell in them, too, and I think Philip was aware of this and tried to retrench financially and PR-wise. In that, he failed miserably. Whether Charles's poor PR ratings will destroy the monarchy, I doubt, but it's not impossible. Princes should be people who are not too good to stand in the line at Au Bon Pain (as some Dutch prince did while attending school near where I lived). If Louis can become the kind of prince who does his own shopping and has marketable skills like the Dutch royals, they will be better off.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:44 AM on April 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
The last war for British succession was in 1745. That's almost 300 years of British royals not inflcting that on their country. 12 (or so) reigns of not-as-bad.
The idea that, just because there haven't been succession wars, British royals haven't been sociopaths towards their own people is demonstrably false. What's worse is that they did inflict their sociopathic impulses on billions of people in the name of "civilizing" them. Entire cultures, languages, religions were decimated or even destroyed because royals demanded it, and thousands of years of history erased to glorify them.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:15 AM on April 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
The idea that, just because there haven't been succession wars, British royals haven't been sociopaths towards their own people is demonstrably false. What's worse is that they did inflict their sociopathic impulses on billions of people in the name of "civilizing" them. Entire cultures, languages, religions were decimated or even destroyed because royals demanded it, and thousands of years of history erased to glorify them.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:15 AM on April 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
The last war for British succession was in 1745. That's almost 300 years of British royals not inflcting that on their country.
I asked "What long-term benevolent, stable, non-sociopathic dynasties are you thinking of? Are they ones largely penned in by constitutions and parliaments?"
A power-hungry British sociopath in modern times would be vanishingly unlikely to try to dethrone the monarch - why bother? They'd have more power being (or buying) a PM or leading MP, with none of the risks involved in attempts at violent overthrow. (Not to mention that in modern times a lot of sociopaths seem to satisfy their need for power through business rather than politics, which says less about the stability of monarchies than about the increasing power of corporations.)
I think any argument about how monarchies are an effective system of government needs to look at cases where monarchies actually are the government.
posted by trig at 10:17 AM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
I asked "What long-term benevolent, stable, non-sociopathic dynasties are you thinking of? Are they ones largely penned in by constitutions and parliaments?"
A power-hungry British sociopath in modern times would be vanishingly unlikely to try to dethrone the monarch - why bother? They'd have more power being (or buying) a PM or leading MP, with none of the risks involved in attempts at violent overthrow. (Not to mention that in modern times a lot of sociopaths seem to satisfy their need for power through business rather than politics, which says less about the stability of monarchies than about the increasing power of corporations.)
I think any argument about how monarchies are an effective system of government needs to look at cases where monarchies actually are the government.
posted by trig at 10:17 AM on April 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
The last war for British succession was in 1745. That's almost 300 years of British royals not inflcting that on their country. 12 (or so) reigns of not-as-bad.
That kinda depends on which side of the subsequent two plus centuries of genocide you are standing on.
posted by Mitheral at 10:30 AM on April 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
That kinda depends on which side of the subsequent two plus centuries of genocide you are standing on.
posted by Mitheral at 10:30 AM on April 12, 2021 [6 favorites]
A power-hungry British sociopath in modern times would be vanishingly unlikely to try to dethrone the monarch - why bother? They'd have more power being (or buying) a PM or leading MP
I admire the restraint required to express this as a hypothetical possibility. Johnson's known life history is hard to square with a PCL-R score below the mid 20s, and it's easy to think of at least one leading MP whose behaviour is consistent with strong dark triad character traits. Pretty consistent, anyway.
posted by howfar at 10:44 AM on April 12, 2021
I admire the restraint required to express this as a hypothetical possibility. Johnson's known life history is hard to square with a PCL-R score below the mid 20s, and it's easy to think of at least one leading MP whose behaviour is consistent with strong dark triad character traits. Pretty consistent, anyway.
posted by howfar at 10:44 AM on April 12, 2021
The blog language: a feminist guide has a post about how looking closely at the details of language-use can reveal, or bring into sharper focus, beliefs and attitudes that usually go unnoticed: Death of a patriarch
Since he was approaching his 100th birthday, this event was not unexpected; the government and the media had made a detailed plan (code-named ‘Operation Forth Bridge’) which they could put into action whenever it happened. So, what we are now reading and hearing—all the news reports and tributes and retrospective features about his life—is not the result of some hasty bodge-job. Much of this material was compiled well in advance, by people who had plenty of time to consider what they were going to say. I was expecting the coverage to be a lot of things I haven’t personally got much time for: royalist (obviously), obsequious (naturally), nationalistic (inevitably). But I’ll admit I was not expecting it to be quite so…patriarchal.posted by Lexica at 10:55 AM on April 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
When I say ‘patriarchal’, I mean that in a very basic and literal sense. I’m not just talking about the presentation of the Prince as a model of aristocratic masculinity, a man who had served in World War II, who spoke with the bluntness of a former naval officer, who sent his son to a school that prescribed cold showers and stiff upper lips, etc., etc. I’m talking about the fact that commentary on his life has been organised, to a remarkable extent, around the proposition—not directly stated, but apparently still taken for granted—that it is natural and desirable for men to rule over women and children, in any social unit from the family to the nation-state. That proposition has shaped the outlines of the story we have been told—the story of a man who was outranked by his wife, and who (understandably) found that demeaning; and also of the wife herself, a Good Woman who understood the problem and made every effort to mitigate it.
In case you think I’m just making this up, let’s have a look at some textual evidence.
But I’ll admit I was not expecting it to be quite so…patriarchal.
I just shook my head all the way through this article published in the year of Our Lady Beyonce 2021: Philip’s death leaves Prince Charles as patriarch of royal family as if the woman who has been Queen for 70 years needs a man to tell her how to run her family and the monarchy.
If there is anyone qualified to run that family if the Queen is no longer able, it is Anne, not Charles.
posted by Preserver at 11:20 AM on April 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
I just shook my head all the way through this article published in the year of Our Lady Beyonce 2021: Philip’s death leaves Prince Charles as patriarch of royal family as if the woman who has been Queen for 70 years needs a man to tell her how to run her family and the monarchy.
If there is anyone qualified to run that family if the Queen is no longer able, it is Anne, not Charles.
posted by Preserver at 11:20 AM on April 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
I admire the restraint required to express this as a hypothetical possibility.
Yeah, I in no way meant to imply that this wasn't a real thing that keeps happening. There will always be sociopaths, and non-monarchic, democratic institutions just provide less directly bloody ways for them to amass power than the traditional technique of armed overthrow of the reigning monarch and their supporters.
Though the "directly" in "directly bloody" sure does a lot of work when taking into account the human toll of instruments of sociopathy like economic, nationalistic, and culture-war populism.
Anyway, back to Philip! The forced patriarchality of the coverage really is something.
posted by trig at 11:26 AM on April 12, 2021
Yeah, I in no way meant to imply that this wasn't a real thing that keeps happening. There will always be sociopaths, and non-monarchic, democratic institutions just provide less directly bloody ways for them to amass power than the traditional technique of armed overthrow of the reigning monarch and their supporters.
Though the "directly" in "directly bloody" sure does a lot of work when taking into account the human toll of instruments of sociopathy like economic, nationalistic, and culture-war populism.
Anyway, back to Philip! The forced patriarchality of the coverage really is something.
posted by trig at 11:26 AM on April 12, 2021
In times like these, so trying for a royalist's soul, I take my comfort in the fortieth chapter, eleventh paragraph, of A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court by Mark Twain.
"...I urged that Kings were dangerous. He said, then have cats. He was sure that a royal family of cats would answer every purpose. They would be as useful as any other family, they would know as much, they would have the same virtues and the same treacheries, the same disposition to get up shindies with other royal cats, they would be laughably vain and absurd and never know it, they would be wholly inexpensive; finally, they would have as sound a divine right as any other royal house... the character of these cats would be considerably above the character of the average king, and this would be an immense moral advantage to the nation, for the reason that a nation always models its morals after its monarch's. ..."
Twain goes on a bit more (three sentences, but two of them are immense in length), but I dare not overwhelm people with comfort in their time of need.
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2021 [9 favorites]
"...I urged that Kings were dangerous. He said, then have cats. He was sure that a royal family of cats would answer every purpose. They would be as useful as any other family, they would know as much, they would have the same virtues and the same treacheries, the same disposition to get up shindies with other royal cats, they would be laughably vain and absurd and never know it, they would be wholly inexpensive; finally, they would have as sound a divine right as any other royal house... the character of these cats would be considerably above the character of the average king, and this would be an immense moral advantage to the nation, for the reason that a nation always models its morals after its monarch's. ..."
Twain goes on a bit more (three sentences, but two of them are immense in length), but I dare not overwhelm people with comfort in their time of need.
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 2:47 PM on April 13, 2021 [9 favorites]
Ash Sarkar's take for Novara Media is an interesting angle.
"It’s striking that even after Charles and Diana, Harry and Meghan, and Prince Andrew and the FBI, Prince Philip has died with the monarchy facing fewer crises of legitimacy than when he was born."
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:57 PM on April 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
"It’s striking that even after Charles and Diana, Harry and Meghan, and Prince Andrew and the FBI, Prince Philip has died with the monarchy facing fewer crises of legitimacy than when he was born."
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 4:57 PM on April 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
So 30 people at the funeral- any idea who any of them will be
The list was released today. *Quickly checks* Yip they must have gotten my pre-emptive RSVP decline. I like how Princess Anne is simply listed as The Princess Royal. Would be funny if they changed that to the Royal Princess and there was confusion if Anne or the entire crew and guests on the MedallionClass cruise ship of the same name were going to turn up. Hijinks abound.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:09 AM on April 15, 2021
The list was released today. *Quickly checks* Yip they must have gotten my pre-emptive RSVP decline. I like how Princess Anne is simply listed as The Princess Royal. Would be funny if they changed that to the Royal Princess and there was confusion if Anne or the entire crew and guests on the MedallionClass cruise ship of the same name were going to turn up. Hijinks abound.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 11:09 AM on April 15, 2021
The Princess Royal is Anne's formal title. It's customarily reserved for -- but not automatically given to -- the eldest daughter of a reigning monarch, and granted for life. So, the next plausible candidate for the title is Charlotte, but not until such time as all of Elizabeth, Charles and Anne have died (or, possibly, abdicated).
posted by jacquilynne at 12:24 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:24 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm amused at this description comparing the British royals to Southern reality television, but it points out that the brothers are literally being separated at the funeral, and nobody's allowed to wear their military uniforms.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:20 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:20 PM on April 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hmmmmmmm. No Prince and Princess Michael of Kent.
posted by double bubble at 10:45 AM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by double bubble at 10:45 AM on April 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I will note that William and Harry actually walked next to each other coming out of there....
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:00 PM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:00 PM on April 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
I’m sure any momentary reconciliation between the brothers will soon be demolished by the toxic staff that surrounds the William, Charles and the Queen.
posted by interogative mood at 4:43 PM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 4:43 PM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Looks like hanging with the family is going...poorly.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:42 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:42 PM on April 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
I had thought they were walking apart because no one needs to be reminded of the way the two of them walked together at Diana's funeral. No one wants to go there after Harry has talked about how appalling an experience that was.
Or now we know for sure William is the one that asked that question about Archie. And William is annoyed that Harry is going to out earn him and end up the more famous one, despite not being the heir.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:57 PM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Or now we know for sure William is the one that asked that question about Archie. And William is annoyed that Harry is going to out earn him and end up the more famous one, despite not being the heir.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 9:57 PM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
I just remembered the other day that long ago I read something about Charles making his disappointment known after Harry’s birth because he was born with red hair. It made me wonder if maybe he wasn’t the one who made the comments about Archie.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:06 PM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:06 PM on April 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
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I (with others) got roaring drunk with (and thanks to) him once, at a reception for the Queen in South America, early 90s. He was hilarious, enormously good company and thoughtful to make sure that we were all well looked after (which basically meant unfettered access to the booze).
posted by dowcrag at 4:36 AM on April 9, 2021 [74 favorites]