"Another Day, Another Starbies!"
May 15, 2021 6:06 PM Subscribe
The Rise Of The Appuccino: How TikTok Is Changing Starbucks (BuzzFeed)
There was a time when the idea of a mere soy latte or mocha Frappuccino was the punchline of dad jokes, an eyeroll about people not drinking “real” coffee. That time is long past, and a set of factors all coming together at once has made incredibly complex orders at Starbucks the norm rather than the exception — sometimes to the chagrin of the workers.
The biggest contributor to the rise of the Appuccino is TikTok, where customized drink suggestions go viral and there are Starbucks influencers (and even employees) who show off the drinks they make.
"I'll have a half double decaffeinated half-caff, with a twist of lemon."
posted by goatdog at 6:32 PM on May 15, 2021 [19 favorites]
posted by goatdog at 6:32 PM on May 15, 2021 [19 favorites]
Grotesque on so many levels.
"Starbucks itself is perfectly fine with elaborate drink orders". What is "Starbucks itself" if not the people who, like, make the actual drinks? No, of course, it's the CEO, who has never done blue collar work in his life and whose children and grandchildren will lead lives of pointless wealth as everyone else dies of climate change.
~~
So I work at a university. I also attended this university for a couple of years in the late nineties doing a post-BA certification. What used to be a relatively charming university area has been totally transformed - almost everything is a chain now, the independent bookstores are basically gone, there's a Target, there are tons of lofts catering to wealthy students. The only upside is that the enrollment of a lot more Chinese international students has dramatically improved the Chinese food options.
There is one independent coffee shop left and it gets some kind of major, major rent break or other subsidy as far as I can tell. There used to be at least four other ones, one of which was a really gorgeous cafe that made you feel sophisticated and intellectual just sitting there. The kicker, of course, is that these places were not more expensive than Starbucks.
I, a nineties person, refused to go to Starbucks ever until I started working with people who went there all the time and then I hated to be a bad sport and so I'd occasionally go along for a small plain coffee. I had assumed that it would be super cheap because it's a chain, right, and what's the point of chains if they're not super cheap? But it's not super cheap! And the drinks are gross with all these fake flavors like you're just getting a big old cup of International Coffee from 1992 only much worse. And their default iced coffee is sweetened with a weird caramel gross syrup - you have to ask them not to add it and every once in a while I'd forget and get this horrible undrinkable thing.
But of course there's no outside anymore. People are going to drink coffee, there's no longer anywhere to drink coffee except the gross exploitation influencer machine so people are going to go to the gross exploitation influencer machine.
The main difference between the nineties and the now, business-wise, was that in the nineties algo-capital hadn't captured absolutely everything so you could still choose not to engage with it but now everything has been digested.
posted by Frowner at 6:36 PM on May 15, 2021 [59 favorites]
"Starbucks itself is perfectly fine with elaborate drink orders". What is "Starbucks itself" if not the people who, like, make the actual drinks? No, of course, it's the CEO, who has never done blue collar work in his life and whose children and grandchildren will lead lives of pointless wealth as everyone else dies of climate change.
~~
So I work at a university. I also attended this university for a couple of years in the late nineties doing a post-BA certification. What used to be a relatively charming university area has been totally transformed - almost everything is a chain now, the independent bookstores are basically gone, there's a Target, there are tons of lofts catering to wealthy students. The only upside is that the enrollment of a lot more Chinese international students has dramatically improved the Chinese food options.
There is one independent coffee shop left and it gets some kind of major, major rent break or other subsidy as far as I can tell. There used to be at least four other ones, one of which was a really gorgeous cafe that made you feel sophisticated and intellectual just sitting there. The kicker, of course, is that these places were not more expensive than Starbucks.
I, a nineties person, refused to go to Starbucks ever until I started working with people who went there all the time and then I hated to be a bad sport and so I'd occasionally go along for a small plain coffee. I had assumed that it would be super cheap because it's a chain, right, and what's the point of chains if they're not super cheap? But it's not super cheap! And the drinks are gross with all these fake flavors like you're just getting a big old cup of International Coffee from 1992 only much worse. And their default iced coffee is sweetened with a weird caramel gross syrup - you have to ask them not to add it and every once in a while I'd forget and get this horrible undrinkable thing.
But of course there's no outside anymore. People are going to drink coffee, there's no longer anywhere to drink coffee except the gross exploitation influencer machine so people are going to go to the gross exploitation influencer machine.
The main difference between the nineties and the now, business-wise, was that in the nineties algo-capital hadn't captured absolutely everything so you could still choose not to engage with it but now everything has been digested.
posted by Frowner at 6:36 PM on May 15, 2021 [59 favorites]
As a barista, I will say that some people with very specific, complex orders are entitled assholes, and some are perfectly wonderful people who have just discovered things they like the way they like them. See: Mr. 1/4 caf single espresso, Ms. three raw sugar extra dry half full cappuccino with whipped cream to the top, Ms. make me something different every time? All these people are amazing. Meanwhile, Mr. large skim latte who is on the phone literally every day has the easiest order but I’d rather do a million complicated orders than deal with people who are awful.
posted by Night_owl at 6:43 PM on May 15, 2021 [63 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 6:43 PM on May 15, 2021 [63 favorites]
My feeling on the super-complicated Starbucks drinks, with 10 pumps of every kind of syrup plus chocolate chips plus whipped cream plus caramel topping, is “Next time cut out the middleman — just buy a 5-pound bag of sugar and a spoon.”
I do not mind a Starbucks soy latte at all — when I used to travel more regularly, it was a great go-to coffee option. But so many of their “standard” drinks are just such massive sugar bombs that make me feel ill as though I’d eaten a whole bag of candy. And then to make a barista’s life harder with a stupid complicated order, just to cram more sugar in? Definitely not.
posted by snowmentality at 6:48 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
I do not mind a Starbucks soy latte at all — when I used to travel more regularly, it was a great go-to coffee option. But so many of their “standard” drinks are just such massive sugar bombs that make me feel ill as though I’d eaten a whole bag of candy. And then to make a barista’s life harder with a stupid complicated order, just to cram more sugar in? Definitely not.
posted by snowmentality at 6:48 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
The weird thing about this is how bad starbucks drinks are. It's like obsessing about variations on mcdonalds 'hamburgers' or different versions of taco bell 'burritos'. It all tastes like the same food-adjacent substances plus artificial flavors.
posted by signal at 6:48 PM on May 15, 2021 [26 favorites]
posted by signal at 6:48 PM on May 15, 2021 [26 favorites]
Starbucks makes me think of the Murakami line. It's just awful, all around:
If you can't understand it without an explanation, you can't understand it with an explanation.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:53 PM on May 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
If you can't understand it without an explanation, you can't understand it with an explanation.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:53 PM on May 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
This feels like a 21st century version of making a "Suicide" at a soda fountain by getting a little bit of all (or most) of the drinks on tap, but with more human suffering.
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:58 PM on May 15, 2021 [38 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 6:58 PM on May 15, 2021 [38 favorites]
The weird thing about this is how bad starbucks drinks are. It's like obsessing about variations on mcdonalds 'hamburgers' or different versions of taco bell 'burritos'.I have coworkers who frequent one of the upscale locations so I’ve tried their various beans & preparation methods and have been impressed by how consistently bad their beans are. Single-origin “blonde” roast on a Clover tasted almost as burnt as their regular drip or espresso.
The phenomenon you mentioned makes sense as a contest to find ever more effective layers to cover up the ruins of those beans.
posted by adamsc at 6:59 PM on May 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
Maybe this is a case where intent doesn't really matter, but I'm inclined to judge people a bit less harshly if they're doing this regularly because they like their custom drink, rather than as a form of liquid dare. Also, of course, if they're tipping very well, avoiding peak times and generally being extremely nice to their baristas.
This may identify me as unspeakably pedestrian, but while I enjoy an artisanal coffee as much as the next person, I like Starbucks just fine. And while I'm more of a black coffee person, I don't generally consider liking a frappuccino a form of moral failure on anyone's part.
posted by eponym at 7:02 PM on May 15, 2021 [33 favorites]
This may identify me as unspeakably pedestrian, but while I enjoy an artisanal coffee as much as the next person, I like Starbucks just fine. And while I'm more of a black coffee person, I don't generally consider liking a frappuccino a form of moral failure on anyone's part.
posted by eponym at 7:02 PM on May 15, 2021 [33 favorites]
making a "Suicide" at a soda fountain by getting a little bit of all (or most) of the drinks on tap
As a young teenager, I was asking for that. Never heard the term "Suicide", I just asked for some of everything. Then one time the guy added ketchup and mustard, and I stopped asking for that.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:09 PM on May 15, 2021 [42 favorites]
As a young teenager, I was asking for that. Never heard the term "Suicide", I just asked for some of everything. Then one time the guy added ketchup and mustard, and I stopped asking for that.
posted by StickyCarpet at 7:09 PM on May 15, 2021 [42 favorites]
I don't generally consider liking a frappuccino a form of moral failure on anyone's part.
My thought is that a frappuccino is (relative to other Starbucks coffee drinks) fine because it isn't even pretending to be coffee. It's a coffee-flavored dessert thing, and it's honest about that fact.
posted by nosewings at 7:15 PM on May 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
My thought is that a frappuccino is (relative to other Starbucks coffee drinks) fine because it isn't even pretending to be coffee. It's a coffee-flavored dessert thing, and it's honest about that fact.
posted by nosewings at 7:15 PM on May 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
it’s the rude customers that can make the job suck.
That’s every public-facing job. I know I’m old not because I probably wouldn’t like any of these cake smoothies, but because I’d never ask someone to make one.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:25 PM on May 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
That’s every public-facing job. I know I’m old not because I probably wouldn’t like any of these cake smoothies, but because I’d never ask someone to make one.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:25 PM on May 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
The trouble with sweetened Starbucks drinks IMO is that the sweeteners are weird and fake-tasting. Like, the first time I had a frappuccino it was great - icy, coffee-y, sweet, creamy! - but once the novelty wore off the strange taste of the sweeteners really came through and I don't get them anymore.
The remaining independent shop near work makes lots of foofy coffee and tea drinks, and I am telling you that if you like a Starbucks foofy drink, you will really like one made with better beans and more straightforward ingredients.
~~
The other thing about Starbucks is that the customer culture, at least around here, is basically anti-tip. Hardly anyone tips even when they've made an incredibly fussy stunt order, and if they do tip it's not 20%. People don't really think about tipping at counter-service chains, but they do tend to think about tipping at independent places - I'm sure there are enough non-tippers at the independent shop, but I see a lot more tipping even given that many transactions at both places are credit card-based.
posted by Frowner at 7:26 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
The remaining independent shop near work makes lots of foofy coffee and tea drinks, and I am telling you that if you like a Starbucks foofy drink, you will really like one made with better beans and more straightforward ingredients.
~~
The other thing about Starbucks is that the customer culture, at least around here, is basically anti-tip. Hardly anyone tips even when they've made an incredibly fussy stunt order, and if they do tip it's not 20%. People don't really think about tipping at counter-service chains, but they do tend to think about tipping at independent places - I'm sure there are enough non-tippers at the independent shop, but I see a lot more tipping even given that many transactions at both places are credit card-based.
posted by Frowner at 7:26 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Starbucks "coffee"
posted by Ahmad Khani at 7:35 PM on May 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 7:35 PM on May 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
obligatory Larry David goes to Starbucks
posted by Ahmad Khani at 7:36 PM on May 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 7:36 PM on May 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Baristas, welcome to the wonderful world of bartending...
posted by jim in austin at 7:37 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 7:37 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
I, a nineties person, refused to go to Starbucks ever until...
The article mentions that historical moment, too: "To many Gen X’ers, Starbucks in the ’90s was a symbol of corporate evils, a chain with middle-class pretensions (“venti”) replacing real, authentic coffee shops. "
I like the basic coffee + milk drinks at Starbucks just fine (things like their latte, cappuccino, or flat white, though the last time I ordered a macchiato there was some kind of misunderstanding and I got a weird hybrid drink that tasted ok but sure wasn't a macchiato). Their sweet drinks, hot or cold, are way too sweet for my tastes, so none of the drinks described in the article and shown in the videos sound good to me, but I'm not the demographic for that.
The article is more nuanced than some of the hot takes here. Some of the baristas like making the drinks, some don't; corporate likes the trend for the branding and as a way of reaching people who aren't going to be ordering traditional hot coffee drinks; etc. If it was hurting store productivity or profits, the company would shut it down, but they are if anything doing the opposite.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:51 PM on May 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
The article mentions that historical moment, too: "To many Gen X’ers, Starbucks in the ’90s was a symbol of corporate evils, a chain with middle-class pretensions (“venti”) replacing real, authentic coffee shops. "
I like the basic coffee + milk drinks at Starbucks just fine (things like their latte, cappuccino, or flat white, though the last time I ordered a macchiato there was some kind of misunderstanding and I got a weird hybrid drink that tasted ok but sure wasn't a macchiato). Their sweet drinks, hot or cold, are way too sweet for my tastes, so none of the drinks described in the article and shown in the videos sound good to me, but I'm not the demographic for that.
The article is more nuanced than some of the hot takes here. Some of the baristas like making the drinks, some don't; corporate likes the trend for the branding and as a way of reaching people who aren't going to be ordering traditional hot coffee drinks; etc. If it was hurting store productivity or profits, the company would shut it down, but they are if anything doing the opposite.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:51 PM on May 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
We have lots of good local coffee places here in Melbourne and Starbucks didn't do well when it entered the market. Apparently they have 15 outlets in this State; but I probably have that many independent coffee shops in a mile's radius. I ordered coffee at a Starbucks once when visiting the USA and good lord it was bad: thin, bitter, and burnt. But! I found that I like an iced coffee with chocolate syrup just fine on a hot day, and it's sufficiently dissimilar to coffee that I don't even feel bad about it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:19 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:19 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
> Some of the baristas like making the drinks
While it's certainly possible, I think it's more probable that some of the baristas like having a job and thus gave nice play-along quotes on the record, especially considering the barista in the core case here was fired.
posted by glonous keming at 8:27 PM on May 15, 2021 [21 favorites]
While it's certainly possible, I think it's more probable that some of the baristas like having a job and thus gave nice play-along quotes on the record, especially considering the barista in the core case here was fired.
posted by glonous keming at 8:27 PM on May 15, 2021 [21 favorites]
The weird thing about this is how bad starbucks drinks are. It's like obsessing about variations on mcdonalds 'hamburgers' or different versions of taco bell 'burritos'.
At Wendy's, at least 30 mumble years ago, you could order a no-salt burger. Want to piss off the grill worker? Order a no salt burger during a busy time. It takes 5 minutes to cook a burger and you have to clean a specific part of the grill and then tend that one specific stupid piece of meat (normally one has dozens of patties slowly making their way across the entire area of hte grill) for five minutes. And the whole time the customer is standing there looking annoyed his fast food is taking so long.
Any other special order is no harder than a standard burger though.
posted by Mitheral at 8:30 PM on May 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
At Wendy's, at least 30 mumble years ago, you could order a no-salt burger. Want to piss off the grill worker? Order a no salt burger during a busy time. It takes 5 minutes to cook a burger and you have to clean a specific part of the grill and then tend that one specific stupid piece of meat (normally one has dozens of patties slowly making their way across the entire area of hte grill) for five minutes. And the whole time the customer is standing there looking annoyed his fast food is taking so long.
Any other special order is no harder than a standard burger though.
posted by Mitheral at 8:30 PM on May 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
Can you even ask for a flat white at a North American Starbucks?
Melbourne coffee culture is next level and I’d guess Starbucks makes a flat white there, but it’s a lot of culture to overcome and commoditize.
posted by notyou at 8:30 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Melbourne coffee culture is next level and I’d guess Starbucks makes a flat white there, but it’s a lot of culture to overcome and commoditize.
posted by notyou at 8:30 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
I rarely go to Starbucks because I am a coffee aficionado which means coffee has been ruined for me because I only drink “good” coffee. Anyhoo, I used to have a “secret” order at Starbucks and I forget what the order was but it was a proper sized cappuccino. So you’d have their smallest cup with a proper sized drink which of course was about 1/3 of the volume of the cup. Last time I tried to order it, maybe 10 years ago, I was informed that they weren’t allowed to make it anymore. Probably because it was also much cheaper than any of the fancier drinks.
I also call Frappuccino’s “milkshakes” because really, who are you kidding?
I am insufferable.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:38 PM on May 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
I also call Frappuccino’s “milkshakes” because really, who are you kidding?
I am insufferable.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:38 PM on May 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ancestral Origin of Starbucks Edwards via Consumerist 2007
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:42 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:42 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Also, read the above article with 'Juicy Raspberry' with Best in Show 'Busy Bee' energy. You're welcome.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:44 PM on May 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:44 PM on May 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I just drink whatever coffee Dethklok tells me to drink.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:00 PM on May 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 9:00 PM on May 15, 2021 [10 favorites]
In the viral drink in the linked article when it says “5 banana” is it literally 5 bananas blended in? Or 5 scoops of something derived from bananas? The linked drink seems like it’s about a thousand calories and it’s probably a pretty good deal in calories per dollar.
If that’s your goal and you’re bored of Hostess Fruit Pies.
posted by GuyZero at 9:05 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
If that’s your goal and you’re bored of Hostess Fruit Pies.
posted by GuyZero at 9:05 PM on May 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Not a big Starbucks guy but the sweet cold foam is pretty great.
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:07 PM on May 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:07 PM on May 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
As a non-coffee drinker, I roll my eyes at a lot of this. There is so much drama about coffee, y'all. As far as I can tell, everyone throws fits if they don't get Just The Right Coffee and The Right Number of Cups of it before X time in the morning, and there's all the "chino" drinks I can't keep track of, and the Starbucks Skin Scale TV Trope (I was nice and didn't link it). And now we have TikTok seekrit drinks and people who order 15 different things in their beverage? Good lord, people.
I'd be angry if I was a barista too and a bunch of 2020's equivalent of Sally Albright-types were listing that much specialness that HAD to go into their drinks, especially during rush time or if they were a jerk about it. A friend of mine used to work at Starbucks and so far I have restrained myself from making her life worse by mentioning the existence of this whole controversy to her, because I'm sure she'd Have Thoughts. Seriously, I feel bad asking someone to substitute any other kind of cheese instead of blue cheese in a salad, much less this level of fussery. But upon reading this, it sounds like they're just plugging these orders in online rather than actually SAYING them to a human's face, which I guess makes it easier for you to feel like you can get away with this nitpickery.
That said, as a non-coffee drinker, I appreciate that Starbucks actually has non-coffee beverages I can drink whenever someone in the beforetimes wanted to go to Starbucks. (Now I have probably at least $50 of Starbucks gift cards I haven't used from my work since I haven't been able to go anywhere with anyone.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:12 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'd be angry if I was a barista too and a bunch of 2020's equivalent of Sally Albright-types were listing that much specialness that HAD to go into their drinks, especially during rush time or if they were a jerk about it. A friend of mine used to work at Starbucks and so far I have restrained myself from making her life worse by mentioning the existence of this whole controversy to her, because I'm sure she'd Have Thoughts. Seriously, I feel bad asking someone to substitute any other kind of cheese instead of blue cheese in a salad, much less this level of fussery. But upon reading this, it sounds like they're just plugging these orders in online rather than actually SAYING them to a human's face, which I guess makes it easier for you to feel like you can get away with this nitpickery.
That said, as a non-coffee drinker, I appreciate that Starbucks actually has non-coffee beverages I can drink whenever someone in the beforetimes wanted to go to Starbucks. (Now I have probably at least $50 of Starbucks gift cards I haven't used from my work since I haven't been able to go anywhere with anyone.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:12 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Can you even ask for a flat white at a North American Starbucks?
It's been on the menu for about six years. Others can speak better to how it compares to the original.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:22 PM on May 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
It's been on the menu for about six years. Others can speak better to how it compares to the original.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:22 PM on May 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
As a father of a tweenage daughter I'm living this dream/nightmare daily. Ignore the Starbucks hacking, that's just a bystander to all of this.
Check out this cool birria taco recipe! It's a 27 second rapidly edited video of ingredients flying around with no measurements or times but hey that smiling girl at the end says it's delicious so yeah, let's try it.
Check out this cool new bakery that I found! The cookies look awesome! It's 30 minutes away and there's a 45 minute queue of similar kids who are prepping their tiktok video recordings once they get inside. IF they get inside. It looks like they're running out of cookies.
These kids are looking for something/anything to latch on to. I kind of feel for them.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:22 PM on May 15, 2021 [36 favorites]
Check out this cool birria taco recipe! It's a 27 second rapidly edited video of ingredients flying around with no measurements or times but hey that smiling girl at the end says it's delicious so yeah, let's try it.
Check out this cool new bakery that I found! The cookies look awesome! It's 30 minutes away and there's a 45 minute queue of similar kids who are prepping their tiktok video recordings once they get inside. IF they get inside. It looks like they're running out of cookies.
These kids are looking for something/anything to latch on to. I kind of feel for them.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:22 PM on May 15, 2021 [36 favorites]
Hmm. Well, I normally drink instant coffee.
(Secretly hoping instant coffee becomes the new "I don't own a TV"-esque thing people say)
posted by FJT at 9:25 PM on May 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
(Secretly hoping instant coffee becomes the new "I don't own a TV"-esque thing people say)
posted by FJT at 9:25 PM on May 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
"Starbucks itself is perfectly fine with elaborate drink orders". What is "Starbucks itself" if not the people who, like, make the actual drinks? No, of course, it's the CEO, who has never done blue collar work in his life and whose children and grandchildren will lead lives of pointless wealth as everyone else dies of climate change.
None coffee with left beef? (I kid)
I'm no fan of Starbucks, but sometimes it is nice to know that (normal, non-abusive) customization is allowed there and won't be judged. It's the place I go when I want espresso with whipped cream, for instance -- which is about the simplest possible drink to make short of black coffee, but man, the looks I get some places. At one particularly snooty café I was informed that I could not order this because they prided themselves on their beans and adding whipped cream would "ruin" the coffee.
Chains offer bland professionalism and, usually, a high floor (and low ceiling) on what kind of interactions you'll have. I can see the appeal of that. The injustice is that it only applies on one side of the counter.
posted by aws17576 at 9:25 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
None coffee with left beef? (I kid)
I'm no fan of Starbucks, but sometimes it is nice to know that (normal, non-abusive) customization is allowed there and won't be judged. It's the place I go when I want espresso with whipped cream, for instance -- which is about the simplest possible drink to make short of black coffee, but man, the looks I get some places. At one particularly snooty café I was informed that I could not order this because they prided themselves on their beans and adding whipped cream would "ruin" the coffee.
Chains offer bland professionalism and, usually, a high floor (and low ceiling) on what kind of interactions you'll have. I can see the appeal of that. The injustice is that it only applies on one side of the counter.
posted by aws17576 at 9:25 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
I’ll have a skim vanilla soy latte with a confetti cookie in it. Just moosh the cookie right down in there. If you can give it a buzz with the immersion blender that helps it dissolve faster, thanks
posted by oulipian at 9:27 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by oulipian at 9:27 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
The great thing about Starbucks for me when I visit North America is I know I can reliably get free wifi and access to a toilet.
Here in New Zealand it never got beyond catering for tourists and foreign students. Some say that is because of the strong well-established coffee culture. I think that's one part, the other part is that the US Starbucks company sold the rights to the franchise to a local company who didn't have the same deep pockets that let them take over every viable site and undercharged until the competition died. If OG Starbucks really wanted to add another territory of a few million things might be different.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:54 PM on May 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Here in New Zealand it never got beyond catering for tourists and foreign students. Some say that is because of the strong well-established coffee culture. I think that's one part, the other part is that the US Starbucks company sold the rights to the franchise to a local company who didn't have the same deep pockets that let them take over every viable site and undercharged until the competition died. If OG Starbucks really wanted to add another territory of a few million things might be different.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:54 PM on May 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Also, putting extra strain on another person so you can get social media clout is scum behaviour.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:55 PM on May 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:55 PM on May 15, 2021 [8 favorites]
How about we go back to stacking a dozen trollish songs on the jukebox after all.
Piss on all the customers instead of on the working stiff.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:04 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Piss on all the customers instead of on the working stiff.
posted by away for regrooving at 10:04 PM on May 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
The article mentions that historical moment, too: "To many Gen X’ers, Starbucks in the ’90s was a symbol of corporate evils, a chain with middle-class pretensions (“venti”) replacing real, authentic coffee shops. "
In my version of the 90s, at least, the choice was not Starbucks vs. "Authentic", it was Starbucks vs. deli coffee.
It came in a cup that looked like this and the only special order was if you wanted regular or black.
These days there seems to be a coffee shop that caters to every niche imageable.
We have a regional chain for the teenagers, Starbucks for soccer moms and college girls, drive through for the commuters. Hell, we even have one that refuses to carry milk.
Honestly, if Starbucks is ok with it and these people aren't ordering 5 minute drinks in the middle of the morning rush, I don't see the harm.
posted by madajb at 10:12 PM on May 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
In my version of the 90s, at least, the choice was not Starbucks vs. "Authentic", it was Starbucks vs. deli coffee.
It came in a cup that looked like this and the only special order was if you wanted regular or black.
These days there seems to be a coffee shop that caters to every niche imageable.
We have a regional chain for the teenagers, Starbucks for soccer moms and college girls, drive through for the commuters. Hell, we even have one that refuses to carry milk.
Honestly, if Starbucks is ok with it and these people aren't ordering 5 minute drinks in the middle of the morning rush, I don't see the harm.
posted by madajb at 10:12 PM on May 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
Kind of weird how a thread about influencers gaming the system to get followers at the expense of fast food workers morphed into a perennial complaint/implicit humblebrag about how your favorite coffee place is better than the Green Mermaid.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:27 PM on May 15, 2021 [49 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:27 PM on May 15, 2021 [49 favorites]
Honestly, if Starbucks is ok with it and these people aren't ordering 5 minute drinks in the middle of the morning rush, I don't see the harm.
This is literally the problem with consumerism in a nutshell. You are saying "if their employer is okay with it and it doesn't inconvenience any other fellow consumers, it's okay to abuse a service worker for one's own benefit."
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:31 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
This is literally the problem with consumerism in a nutshell. You are saying "if their employer is okay with it and it doesn't inconvenience any other fellow consumers, it's okay to abuse a service worker for one's own benefit."
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:31 PM on May 15, 2021 [12 favorites]
Yeah, you can criticize capitalism and the systems that grind down low-wage retail workers without circlejerking about what a total coffee connoisseur you are. To (mis)quote /r/relationships, the hazelnut syrup is not the issue here.
posted by airmail at 10:36 PM on May 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by airmail at 10:36 PM on May 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
There can be multiple issues. Say for example the local coffee place wasn’t the faceless corporate chain with the myriad flavor options staffed by drones. Why then you wouldn’t be sticking it to the man or gathering likes and follows by exploiting the menu for kicks; you’d be fucking over your neighbor.
posted by notyou at 11:00 PM on May 15, 2021
posted by notyou at 11:00 PM on May 15, 2021
This is literally the problem with consumerism in a nutshell. You are saying "if their employer is okay with it and it doesn't inconvenience any other fellow consumers, it's okay to abuse a service worker for one's own benefit."
How is ordering a stupid drink "abusing a service worker"?
I worked summers in an ice cream stand and we'd get tourists coming in ordering all kinds of ridiculous combinations, but it made no difference to me what the hell it was.
Would I prefer it if everyone had just gotten two scoops of chocolate, sure.
But if you want to stand there while I have to open 4 different freezer, shake nuts on one half, pump strawberry on the other, chocolate dip it and then slice bananas, that's on you.
I got paid the same regardless.
I'm not saying the people doing this aren't jerks, but it is a long way from "abuse".
posted by madajb at 11:11 PM on May 15, 2021 [26 favorites]
How is ordering a stupid drink "abusing a service worker"?
I worked summers in an ice cream stand and we'd get tourists coming in ordering all kinds of ridiculous combinations, but it made no difference to me what the hell it was.
Would I prefer it if everyone had just gotten two scoops of chocolate, sure.
But if you want to stand there while I have to open 4 different freezer, shake nuts on one half, pump strawberry on the other, chocolate dip it and then slice bananas, that's on you.
I got paid the same regardless.
I'm not saying the people doing this aren't jerks, but it is a long way from "abuse".
posted by madajb at 11:11 PM on May 15, 2021 [26 favorites]
I am in Seattle, which is my hometown, right now because my grandpa is on hospice. My grandparents’ house is within walking distance of several different wonderful coffee shops, one of which is a particularly nice Starbucks. For the last few years, my grandpa has been going to that Starbucks with my mom because they will make him a consistently lovely cappuccino and they have a beautiful fireplace and they are always so kind and patient with him. It’s one of the few things he seemed really exited about in his routine. He can’t really leave the house so now I bring him Starbucks daily - sometimes that cappuccino, sometimes a tasty frou-frou menu drink so I can try to encourage him to eat more calories. They’re so kind and patient with me, too.
I don’t know why I’m saying that - I guess I’m just really glad for everyone at our local store. We have a lot of options nearby, but they’re just the best around.
posted by mosst at 11:30 PM on May 15, 2021 [57 favorites]
I don’t know why I’m saying that - I guess I’m just really glad for everyone at our local store. We have a lot of options nearby, but they’re just the best around.
posted by mosst at 11:30 PM on May 15, 2021 [57 favorites]
It is really refreshing to be outside the zone of contagion. I guess there might be a Starbucks's in Tashkent but on the whole I am in a world free of massive corporate brands and it is lovely. Can you get a decent coffee? Not really, but I will trade off shitty powdered instant for an unbranded and minimal advertising environment any day.
posted by Meatbomb at 12:38 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 12:38 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
At one particularly snooty café I was informed that I could not order this because they prided themselves on their beans and adding whipped cream would "ruin" the coffee.
Bet they'd have given you your order just fine if you'd asked for an espresso with (regular) cream, despite that being basically the same thing. This is an indictment of them, not you.
posted by Dysk at 12:42 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Bet they'd have given you your order just fine if you'd asked for an espresso with (regular) cream, despite that being basically the same thing. This is an indictment of them, not you.
posted by Dysk at 12:42 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Buzzfeed on Starbucks on TikTok.
Welcome to millennial hell.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:02 AM on May 16, 2021 [19 favorites]
Welcome to millennial hell.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:02 AM on May 16, 2021 [19 favorites]
Yeah, I thought espresso with whipped cream was just called espresso con panna.. a totally traditional way of serving espresso, I thought. Boo on obnoxious coffee snobs.
posted by flamk at 1:08 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by flamk at 1:08 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
I lived in Amsterdam in the late 90s when the city was fiercely protective of its cafe heritage. I'm not sure whether globalised chain shops were simply discouraged or actually prohibited, but basically there weren't any.
Starbucks opened its first outlet in Amsterdam in 2011; the city now has 21 of them.
(A couple of other cities similar in population to Amsterdam: Seattle has 133 Starbucks; Turin has one.)
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:15 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Starbucks opened its first outlet in Amsterdam in 2011; the city now has 21 of them.
(A couple of other cities similar in population to Amsterdam: Seattle has 133 Starbucks; Turin has one.)
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:15 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Check out this cool new bakery that I found!
Back in the day, there'd be several responses of 'Yeah right you "found" it. Go advertise your bakery somewhere else', followed by a kill-filing.
It is just grotesque that kids now actually aspire to a career in lying about being paid to advertise something.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:26 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
Back in the day, there'd be several responses of 'Yeah right you "found" it. Go advertise your bakery somewhere else', followed by a kill-filing.
It is just grotesque that kids now actually aspire to a career in lying about being paid to advertise something.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 1:26 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
It's easier to blame rude customers, but most of this is on Starbucks. They are the ones with the ever expanding list of drinks that balloons store inventory and require staff to memorize each new recipe. They are the ones that created the UI in the app that make selecting custom options as easy as possible. And, most damningly, they are the the ones that rode the social media tiger by pushing seasonal and promotional drinks for over a decade now (Pumpkin Spice Latte came out in 2003!). In other words, they figuratively and literally made Frankenstein's Frappuccino and unleashed it on the world.
posted by FJT at 2:02 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by FJT at 2:02 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
"I'll have a half double decaffeinated half-caff, with a twist of lemon."
My favorite detail of that scene is that Iman orders a twist of lemon without having ordered a coffee.
posted by The Tensor at 2:09 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
My favorite detail of that scene is that Iman orders a twist of lemon without having ordered a coffee.
posted by The Tensor at 2:09 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I like the basic coffee + milk drinks at Starbucks just fine (things like their latte, cappuccino, or flat white, though the last time I ordered a macchiato there was some kind of misunderstanding and I got a weird hybrid drink that tasted ok but sure wasn't a macchiato)
taquito boyfriend was a barista at an independent joint in San Jose when Starbucks debuted their version of the macchiato as a sweet sticky caramel... bidness... completely unlike a traditional macchiato, & his theory is they did it on purpose so that customers who liked the Starbucks macchiato & tried to order one in an indie shop would get something completely different & not to their liking
(whether this strikes you as overparanoid or "yeah that checks out" probably depends on your existing view of Starbucks)
he gives me mild side-eye if I order a frappucino because apparently they're kind of a pain in the ass to make, but
A) you should hear how respectfully he talks about the polite but very exacting gentleman who used to order a very specific beverage with a very specific amount of ice from the Philz truck in San Francisco's financial district, how much pride he took in finally figuring out the exact right number of ice cubes* so the guy would accept his coffee the first time instead of handing it back, teaching everyone else on the truck so they could get this guy's coffee right the first time too
(my take is it's like Stockholm Syndrome: The Anecdote but also I wasn't there, so)
B) as an on-spectrum person the idea that I can commit a social faux pas simply by walking into a restaurant and ordering something off the menu is horrifying and I basically need it to not be true in my reality**
C) nothing is ever gonna top the time I was in Chipotle & the person in front of me ordered a quesadilla (which is not a standard menu item) & the poor employee, who had clearly never been taught how to make a quesadilla on the store's equipment, was trying to pick it up off the tortilla warmer & kept burning their fingers on molten cheese through their non-heat-protective plastic gloves
like don't be a monster
* there was some other shit that needed to be perfect with this drink but all I remember is there was an exact right number of ice cubes
** I barely ever get fraps anymore because he got in my head, relationships are for masochists
actually you know what Starbucks drink I do like? the pumpkin cream cold brew. have a theory going that modern Americans who aren't otherwise connected to a culture besides our consumer one have a deep yearning to experience seasonal traditions & ancestral connection, but all we know is capitalism, so it manifests as feeling like we need to pay six bucks for a pumpkin spice latte whenever the weather gets a slight bit chilly
anyway the pumpkin cream cold brew tastes better than a PSL imo
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:07 AM on May 16, 2021 [24 favorites]
taquito boyfriend was a barista at an independent joint in San Jose when Starbucks debuted their version of the macchiato as a sweet sticky caramel... bidness... completely unlike a traditional macchiato, & his theory is they did it on purpose so that customers who liked the Starbucks macchiato & tried to order one in an indie shop would get something completely different & not to their liking
(whether this strikes you as overparanoid or "yeah that checks out" probably depends on your existing view of Starbucks)
he gives me mild side-eye if I order a frappucino because apparently they're kind of a pain in the ass to make, but
A) you should hear how respectfully he talks about the polite but very exacting gentleman who used to order a very specific beverage with a very specific amount of ice from the Philz truck in San Francisco's financial district, how much pride he took in finally figuring out the exact right number of ice cubes* so the guy would accept his coffee the first time instead of handing it back, teaching everyone else on the truck so they could get this guy's coffee right the first time too
(my take is it's like Stockholm Syndrome: The Anecdote but also I wasn't there, so)
B) as an on-spectrum person the idea that I can commit a social faux pas simply by walking into a restaurant and ordering something off the menu is horrifying and I basically need it to not be true in my reality**
C) nothing is ever gonna top the time I was in Chipotle & the person in front of me ordered a quesadilla (which is not a standard menu item) & the poor employee, who had clearly never been taught how to make a quesadilla on the store's equipment, was trying to pick it up off the tortilla warmer & kept burning their fingers on molten cheese through their non-heat-protective plastic gloves
like don't be a monster
* there was some other shit that needed to be perfect with this drink but all I remember is there was an exact right number of ice cubes
** I barely ever get fraps anymore because he got in my head, relationships are for masochists
actually you know what Starbucks drink I do like? the pumpkin cream cold brew. have a theory going that modern Americans who aren't otherwise connected to a culture besides our consumer one have a deep yearning to experience seasonal traditions & ancestral connection, but all we know is capitalism, so it manifests as feeling like we need to pay six bucks for a pumpkin spice latte whenever the weather gets a slight bit chilly
anyway the pumpkin cream cold brew tastes better than a PSL imo
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:07 AM on May 16, 2021 [24 favorites]
Dislike of genuinely rude customers aside (and I am not at all convinced that everyone who makes a complicated order is rude) and dislike of Starbucks as a corporation aside (which, sure), I am eternally baffled by the relentless hatred some seem to feel for people who like sweet, flavored coffee-based drinks.
posted by kyrademon at 3:11 AM on May 16, 2021 [21 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 3:11 AM on May 16, 2021 [21 favorites]
(ok Chipotle added a quesadilla to their menu in March so it's probably okay now; can only hope everyone has been trained & given PPE & hopefully even a dedicated quesadilla cooking device)
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:20 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:20 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
Starbucks came to Portugal (checks Google... arrrgh!) 13 years ago and this being a strong coffee culture built around tiny, dementedly strong espressos many eyes rolled. No one goes there for the coffee (except tourists). It's more like an ice cream parlor with milkshakes, big cookies & flavored gels. Wildly popular, for that.
[You can also buy Starbucks coffee capsules for your Nespresso machine.]
Me, when I want a sugarbomb disguised as a caffeine-adjacent drink? Bubbletea.
posted by chavenet at 3:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
[You can also buy Starbucks coffee capsules for your Nespresso machine.]
Me, when I want a sugarbomb disguised as a caffeine-adjacent drink? Bubbletea.
posted by chavenet at 3:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
Giving a ridiculously complicated drinks order (whether in a bar or a coffee shop) gets you roundly hated by everyone in the queue behind you too. How some people can remain so blissfully oblivious to this fact baffles me.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [10 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 3:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [10 favorites]
Contempt for people, especially women, who like sweet or flavored coffeeshop drinks always reminds me of the coffeeshop scene in "Women Making Bees in Public".
posted by brainwane at 3:45 AM on May 16, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 3:45 AM on May 16, 2021 [17 favorites]
away for regrooving, putting a stack of annoying music on a jukebox would annoy the staff as well as the customers, and the staff has less ability to get away.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:57 AM on May 16, 2021
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:57 AM on May 16, 2021
On the rare instances I find myself at a Starbucks, I make sure my order is as bog-standard as can be because I have always loathed the ridiculously tortured orders I've heard people demand.
I try to be as equally easy whenever I find myself at a Subway. My order is always simply a veggie flatbread. But, I've always felt a pang of guilt when I watch the person struggling to wrap-up my order because it always seems like none of them have ever had a customer simply request they drag it through whole garden, instead of requesting a list of specific veggies.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:24 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
I try to be as equally easy whenever I find myself at a Subway. My order is always simply a veggie flatbread. But, I've always felt a pang of guilt when I watch the person struggling to wrap-up my order because it always seems like none of them have ever had a customer simply request they drag it through whole garden, instead of requesting a list of specific veggies.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:24 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
I understand that ordering a complicated drink (especially in a drive through) and being a shitty customer is impolite. All those customizations take time and can are pretty obnoxious during a rush. I’m not a coffee drinker, so maybe I’m not realistic about people getting these at a drive through at 7am but is this not just another version of shitting on things teenage girls like? Isn’t the classic trope that middle school girls go to get frappachinos together after school?
Starbucks encourages the customizations and weird combos. Never has the app suggested to me a hot coffee with caramel and whipped cream (fairly simple), right now it’s an iced guava and coconut milk refresher. Why would customers think that it’s a problem to order custom drinks when the store and app encourage it (again, doesn’t give you a right to be a jerk to employees though)
I don’t know how to explain it but people who complain about how Starbucks is bad coffee and a purist would never go there just seem like the other end of the spectrum of the people who freak out about getting exactly 4.5 pumps of caramel rather than 4 or 5
posted by raccoon409 at 5:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
Starbucks encourages the customizations and weird combos. Never has the app suggested to me a hot coffee with caramel and whipped cream (fairly simple), right now it’s an iced guava and coconut milk refresher. Why would customers think that it’s a problem to order custom drinks when the store and app encourage it (again, doesn’t give you a right to be a jerk to employees though)
I don’t know how to explain it but people who complain about how Starbucks is bad coffee and a purist would never go there just seem like the other end of the spectrum of the people who freak out about getting exactly 4.5 pumps of caramel rather than 4 or 5
posted by raccoon409 at 5:44 AM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
Years and years ago at one (awesome) temp job, my boss and I were discussing coffee. He grumbled that his 13-year-old daughter had started asking him if she could start drinking coffee; but he knew it was because she wanted the foofy Starbucks' iced/sweetened stuff. "I told her that the only way she can have coffee," he said, "was if the FIRST TIME she ever drank it, it would have to be a cup of that super-strong bitter stuff you get at diners. She needs to accept the whole package."
I've usually tried (half-heartedly) to avoid Starbucks; I prefer the smaller indie places (which in New York are still legion, thankfully) for hanging-out kind of visits. But there have been times when I'm in need of some kind of in-between location - work lets out at 5, I have a 7 pm movie ticket, I need to go somewhere in between - and Starbucks is the only nearby option. And when I was doing theater, coffee was just a caffeine delivery system and you didn't care WHO you were getting your coffee from, you just needed it, and whoever was closer to the rehearsal studio that's where you went.
I was at a cool place yesterday that I think had the opposite thing going on. They did Yemeni-style coffee and pastries - and most of its menu were these wonderful-sounding but traditional coffee drinks, where they mixed the beans with things like cardamom pods or ginger or cinnamon and they could serve it to you in a super-cool pot set atop a tea light to keep it warm while you lingered, or different kinds of chai tea. But when I looked at the big menu on the wall, down in one corner was a section they had titled "....but I just want coffee..." that listed the prices of different sizes of regular cups.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:55 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I've usually tried (half-heartedly) to avoid Starbucks; I prefer the smaller indie places (which in New York are still legion, thankfully) for hanging-out kind of visits. But there have been times when I'm in need of some kind of in-between location - work lets out at 5, I have a 7 pm movie ticket, I need to go somewhere in between - and Starbucks is the only nearby option. And when I was doing theater, coffee was just a caffeine delivery system and you didn't care WHO you were getting your coffee from, you just needed it, and whoever was closer to the rehearsal studio that's where you went.
I was at a cool place yesterday that I think had the opposite thing going on. They did Yemeni-style coffee and pastries - and most of its menu were these wonderful-sounding but traditional coffee drinks, where they mixed the beans with things like cardamom pods or ginger or cinnamon and they could serve it to you in a super-cool pot set atop a tea light to keep it warm while you lingered, or different kinds of chai tea. But when I looked at the big menu on the wall, down in one corner was a section they had titled "....but I just want coffee..." that listed the prices of different sizes of regular cups.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:55 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I eat so much Chipotle that I lurk on employee message boards. Quesadillas have been a standard menu item for a long time a part of the kid meals. However, they recently expanded the quesadilla offerings to include a different style of quesadilla for grown-ups which requires a different machine (not yet available in all locations) and everyone hates it because it takes an extra 50 seconds.
posted by bq at 6:06 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by bq at 6:06 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
Starbucks encourages the customizations and weird combos. Never has the app suggested to me a hot coffee with caramel and whipped cream (fairly simple), right now it’s an iced guava and coconut milk refresher. Why would customers think that it’s a problem to order custom drinks when the store and app encourage it (again, doesn’t give you a right to be a jerk to employees though)
Because we as individuals are responsible for moral reasoning about how we treat others - we are capable of doing more than just accepting whatever gross "norms" capital tries to inflict. Employers encourage me to yell and whine and not feel obliged to tip and to assume that if I complain enough over bullshit I can get someone fired. Employers encourage me to believe that I should walk into a store at 7:59 when they close at 8pm and then spend forty minutes dicking around and causing unpaid overtime for the employees - now missing their buses and rides, needing to let their partners know that they won't be home to put the kids to bed, etc - who are not allowed to tell me that they're closed.
Employers just want my money, they don't care how many employees they grind up in the process. Since I am not capable of subsistence farming and absolute removal from capitalism, this means that I am left with the responsibility to think of how my demands affect staff.
It is conventional to say that this is structural problem and therefore I have no responsibility to do anything but take the easier path until some outside force - not me! maybe someone else will start a union or something - fixes the structure and until then I should just roll with it.
It's also conventional to say that if teenage girls like something and you criticize it, you must hate teenage girls. The complicated Starbucks drink guy I've actually met was in his fifties and the staff pretty clearly didn't think it was cute and fun, especially during rush.
posted by Frowner at 6:16 AM on May 16, 2021 [27 favorites]
Because we as individuals are responsible for moral reasoning about how we treat others - we are capable of doing more than just accepting whatever gross "norms" capital tries to inflict. Employers encourage me to yell and whine and not feel obliged to tip and to assume that if I complain enough over bullshit I can get someone fired. Employers encourage me to believe that I should walk into a store at 7:59 when they close at 8pm and then spend forty minutes dicking around and causing unpaid overtime for the employees - now missing their buses and rides, needing to let their partners know that they won't be home to put the kids to bed, etc - who are not allowed to tell me that they're closed.
Employers just want my money, they don't care how many employees they grind up in the process. Since I am not capable of subsistence farming and absolute removal from capitalism, this means that I am left with the responsibility to think of how my demands affect staff.
It is conventional to say that this is structural problem and therefore I have no responsibility to do anything but take the easier path until some outside force - not me! maybe someone else will start a union or something - fixes the structure and until then I should just roll with it.
It's also conventional to say that if teenage girls like something and you criticize it, you must hate teenage girls. The complicated Starbucks drink guy I've actually met was in his fifties and the staff pretty clearly didn't think it was cute and fun, especially during rush.
posted by Frowner at 6:16 AM on May 16, 2021 [27 favorites]
On the rare instances I find myself at a Starbucks, I make sure my order is as bog-standard as can be because I have always loathed the ridiculously tortured orders I've heard people demand.
I always just get a "tall Pike Place, no room for cream" because I just don't have capacity in my brain to figure out anything more complicated. (and I don't like milk or sugar in coffee).
posted by octothorpe at 6:23 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I always just get a "tall Pike Place, no room for cream" because I just don't have capacity in my brain to figure out anything more complicated. (and I don't like milk or sugar in coffee).
posted by octothorpe at 6:23 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
My Starbucks order was not overly complicated, but just a little. Large coffee, double cupped, with small cup on the side. That's the way I liked it, but in "exchange" I would bus the tables of elderly people, so they wouldn't have to finish their coffee with a crumpled sandwich wrapper on their table. After a while, the baristas stopped charging me altogether. And I met some nice old ladies.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:26 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:26 AM on May 16, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'm just in here to say that my partner is a major Starbucks regular because it consistently tastes good, has a drive thru (autism and dysphoria make going inside to order coffee much more difficult), and isn't located downtown where the traffic always sucks. They'd love to be more self-righteous about their coffee but unfortunately the indie coffee shops around us don't meet all or even most of those requirements, so Starbucks it is.
They always take note of people's nametags so they can say "Thank you, Alice!" or whatever. One day one of the workers thanked them for always being courteous and noted, "You're the only person who ever uses my name!" We live in a major metro area, so it wasn't like a small n situation. I despair for humanity.
posted by brook horse at 6:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
They always take note of people's nametags so they can say "Thank you, Alice!" or whatever. One day one of the workers thanked them for always being courteous and noted, "You're the only person who ever uses my name!" We live in a major metro area, so it wasn't like a small n situation. I despair for humanity.
posted by brook horse at 6:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
Starbuckers, Inc.
posted by mhoye at 6:51 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mhoye at 6:51 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
There's a disappointing amount of classism and food shaming going on in here that I wish people would reflect on.
This isn't abuse, but it definitely happens. Yesterday my sister, who is the GM for a Smoothie Franchise, wouldn't remake an order for a customer due to a combo of the store policy and the attitude of the customer. When she turned around to continue working the customer threw, one after the other, both smoothies into the back of my sister's head. I wish I was kidding. This is the 2nd time this year she's been assaulted.
posted by FirstMateKate at 6:58 AM on May 16, 2021 [37 favorites]
This isn't abuse, but it definitely happens. Yesterday my sister, who is the GM for a Smoothie Franchise, wouldn't remake an order for a customer due to a combo of the store policy and the attitude of the customer. When she turned around to continue working the customer threw, one after the other, both smoothies into the back of my sister's head. I wish I was kidding. This is the 2nd time this year she's been assaulted.
posted by FirstMateKate at 6:58 AM on May 16, 2021 [37 favorites]
On the flipside, there's the trauma of being used to Starbucks (because you live in the crap part of town) and then going to a legitimate coffee shop (classic Nichijou YT clip).
posted by jabah at 7:10 AM on May 16, 2021
posted by jabah at 7:10 AM on May 16, 2021
Sometimes I wonder if Burger King's "Have it your way" was the beginning of American consumers being petty tyrants, but somehow I think they've probably always been that way.
posted by deadaluspark at 7:59 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by deadaluspark at 7:59 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I know technically It's Allowed and encouraged by the corporate overlords to order what you want no matter how long and elaborate, but as someone who's been abused because my job was to help you, I just want to cause as little trouble to others as I have to. I so don't want to be That Person. I hate Those People.
I actually wanted to try the Unicorn Frappuchino or whatever it was a few years ago, but felt like such an asshole wanting to because the Starbucks employees were so open about how horrible it was for them to deal with, and god knows I have equivalents to that in my job I have no choice about- it's not just a froofy drink. My mother tried toward the end of the week to order it and they said they were out, and I was relieved.
I guess every week is Unicorn Frappuchino Week now, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:23 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
I actually wanted to try the Unicorn Frappuchino or whatever it was a few years ago, but felt like such an asshole wanting to because the Starbucks employees were so open about how horrible it was for them to deal with, and god knows I have equivalents to that in my job I have no choice about- it's not just a froofy drink. My mother tried toward the end of the week to order it and they said they were out, and I was relieved.
I guess every week is Unicorn Frappuchino Week now, though.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:23 AM on May 16, 2021 [6 favorites]
misterpatrick: "I also call Frappuccino’s “milkshakes” because really, who are you kidding?
They're also really bad milkshakes. Mostly ice.
posted by signal at 8:40 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
They're also really bad milkshakes. Mostly ice.
posted by signal at 8:40 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Also, not liking Starbucks, or Wendys, or Dunkin' Donuts, or gas station hot dogs, or Chipotle, doesn't necessarily make you a snob, or mean you despise the people who do like them.
It might just be that you've tried and prefer better food.
posted by signal at 8:47 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
It might just be that you've tried and prefer better food.
posted by signal at 8:47 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Melbourne coffee culture is next level and I’d guess Starbucks makes a flat white there, but it’s a lot of culture to overcome and commoditize.
I first met my wife (then potential partner) in Melbourne after two years of long distance over WoW. She said she wanted coffee while I, not a huge coffee drinker, wanted a donut. So I suggested a the donut shop over in the corner of the mall we were walking down. She said something about "real coffee" and I kind of drew a blank. She said she wanted espresso and I said "they'll have espresso" to which she expressed complete shock and disbelief. Walk over there and the shiny steel espresso maker was sitting there waiting for an order. She got her first taste of a flat white and I got my donut man.
It's not that different from Perth but yeah, Starbucks was kind of a non-starter in Australia thanks to Italian immigrants giving us coffee culture decades ago.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:49 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I first met my wife (then potential partner) in Melbourne after two years of long distance over WoW. She said she wanted coffee while I, not a huge coffee drinker, wanted a donut. So I suggested a the donut shop over in the corner of the mall we were walking down. She said something about "real coffee" and I kind of drew a blank. She said she wanted espresso and I said "they'll have espresso" to which she expressed complete shock and disbelief. Walk over there and the shiny steel espresso maker was sitting there waiting for an order. She got her first taste of a flat white and I got my donut man.
It's not that different from Perth but yeah, Starbucks was kind of a non-starter in Australia thanks to Italian immigrants giving us coffee culture decades ago.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:49 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I like coffee, but do not care for the dark roast Starbucks serves, so if I get coffee there, it's a pourover, which is more effort, and I feel bad and tip. The food is too sweet. I mostly go for wifi when I'm away from home and order coffee or tea to be polite.
Chains really have taken over, which is handy when you're in an unfamiliar place and need wifi and a bathroom, but it's a shame to lose local businesses.
posted by theora55 at 9:25 AM on May 16, 2021
Chains really have taken over, which is handy when you're in an unfamiliar place and need wifi and a bathroom, but it's a shame to lose local businesses.
posted by theora55 at 9:25 AM on May 16, 2021
The framing of "a complicated drink order got a barista fired" is misleading, because the barista didn't get fired for being slow, or because the customer complained the order wasn't perfect: he got fired for publicly mocking the order in a tweet, which prompted a thread of other baristas to post photos of similarly complicated orders they had gotten.
Depending on where you fall on the question of how much companies should be able to police their employees' behavior outside of work, either Starbucks is at fault for overzealously guarding their brand image, or the barista is at fault for publicly complaining about and mocking his customers, but in neither case is the customer meaningfully responsible.
posted by Pyry at 9:27 AM on May 16, 2021 [7 favorites]
Depending on where you fall on the question of how much companies should be able to police their employees' behavior outside of work, either Starbucks is at fault for overzealously guarding their brand image, or the barista is at fault for publicly complaining about and mocking his customers, but in neither case is the customer meaningfully responsible.
posted by Pyry at 9:27 AM on May 16, 2021 [7 favorites]
There was once a time at any Starbucks when you could get your straight espresso in a proper china demitasse cup. Do they still do this, or are they actually putting single/double shots in freaking tall paper cup? Or, do they actually have demitasse-sized paper cups?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:31 AM on May 16, 2021
posted by Thorzdad at 9:31 AM on May 16, 2021
Depending on where you fall on the question of how much companies should be able to police their employees' behavior outside of work, either Starbucks is at fault for overzealously guarding their brand image, or the barista is at fault for publicly complaining about and mocking his customers, but in neither case is the customer meaningfully responsible.
However, the fact that the original tweet you refer to yielded several responses suggests that there are VERY MANY baristas who have been quietly frustrated by overly-demanding customers in general, and so while this INDIVIDUAL customer in the original tweet may not have been responsible, he is a member of a growing trend that is still really kinda sucky.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:33 AM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
However, the fact that the original tweet you refer to yielded several responses suggests that there are VERY MANY baristas who have been quietly frustrated by overly-demanding customers in general, and so while this INDIVIDUAL customer in the original tweet may not have been responsible, he is a member of a growing trend that is still really kinda sucky.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:33 AM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
I also call Frappuccino’s “milkshakes” because really, who are you kidding?
What? They were named after the distinctive vestments of the Frappuchin order of friars. I mean, they might not be very good, but you can't claim to be a coffee aficionado without at least understanding the origins of the name.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [20 favorites]
What? They were named after the distinctive vestments of the Frappuchin order of friars. I mean, they might not be very good, but you can't claim to be a coffee aficionado without at least understanding the origins of the name.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [20 favorites]
Also, putting extra strain on another person so you can get social media clout is scum behaviour.
I feel like "influencers" are a scourge on humanity. The Antichrist will probably be an anti-vaxx influencer who is really into crypto-currencies.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:41 AM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
I feel like "influencers" are a scourge on humanity. The Antichrist will probably be an anti-vaxx influencer who is really into crypto-currencies.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:41 AM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
When you order through the app, you're not picking up at the drive through, are you? There's a designated part of the counter where you pick it up. You don't even need to be standing there inconveniencing anyone. It takes (for example) 7 minutes to get to your local Starbucks, the app says my order will take 10 minutes, I can order, put on my shoes, whatever, drive over and my order will be ready in a few minutes. I don't even have to talk to anyone. There's an easy spot in the app to include a tip. I just don't see the inconvenience and source of outrage over this method of ordering.
Also, while no ethical consumption under capitalism and all that, Starbucks seems to do alright by their employees. They have trans inclusive health care, retirement, PTO, college tuition. No place is perfect, but some people gotta gripe, I guess.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 9:45 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Also, while no ethical consumption under capitalism and all that, Starbucks seems to do alright by their employees. They have trans inclusive health care, retirement, PTO, college tuition. No place is perfect, but some people gotta gripe, I guess.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 9:45 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
They always take note of people's nametags so they can say "Thank you, Alice!" or whatever. One day one of the workers thanked them for always being courteous and noted, "You're the only person who ever uses my name!" We live in a major metro area, so it wasn't like a small n situation. I despair for humanity.
This seems like something people might have a wide range of feelings about, though. Wearing those nametags isn't a choice, so I don't assume that someone wearing one actually wants me to know or use their name.
There's a clerk at my local garden store who would recognize me when I came in, and one day he started calling me by my name. I was taken aback -- I hadn't told him my name, he'd learned it from my credit card -- and though he meant nothing but friendliness, it made me uncomfortable. (He also started giving me discounts, which only increased my feelings of unearned intimacy. Curiously, after he left that job, I ran into him on the street once and we talked for a few minutes; I found that my discomfort had totally evaporated, so there's definitely something about the power asymmetry in employee-customer interactions that had been in play.)
In Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books, to know someone's true name is to hold power over them. I think she was onto something.
posted by aws17576 at 10:12 AM on May 16, 2021 [14 favorites]
This seems like something people might have a wide range of feelings about, though. Wearing those nametags isn't a choice, so I don't assume that someone wearing one actually wants me to know or use their name.
There's a clerk at my local garden store who would recognize me when I came in, and one day he started calling me by my name. I was taken aback -- I hadn't told him my name, he'd learned it from my credit card -- and though he meant nothing but friendliness, it made me uncomfortable. (He also started giving me discounts, which only increased my feelings of unearned intimacy. Curiously, after he left that job, I ran into him on the street once and we talked for a few minutes; I found that my discomfort had totally evaporated, so there's definitely something about the power asymmetry in employee-customer interactions that had been in play.)
In Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books, to know someone's true name is to hold power over them. I think she was onto something.
posted by aws17576 at 10:12 AM on May 16, 2021 [14 favorites]
When you order through the app, you're not picking up at the drive through, are you? There's a designated part of the counter where you pick it up. You don't even need to be standing there inconveniencing anyone. It takes (for example) 7 minutes to get to your local Starbucks, the app says my order will take 10 minutes, I can order, put on my shoes, whatever, drive over and my order will be ready in a few minutes.
Except if a few other people all have the same idea as you, and then you have a couple other people come in to order in person, and there's only two baristas, suddenly they're stuck making 7 drinks for people who might all be coming Any Minute Now, and the time spent faffing around with "Trenti iced coffee, 12 pumps [sugar-free] vanilla, 12 pumps [sugar-free] hazelnut, 12 pumps [sugar-free] caramel, 5 pumps skinny mocha, a splash of soy, pour in coffee only up to the star on the siren's head, ice, and then double blend it!" is gonna feel damn inconvenient, I'd wager.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:13 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Except if a few other people all have the same idea as you, and then you have a couple other people come in to order in person, and there's only two baristas, suddenly they're stuck making 7 drinks for people who might all be coming Any Minute Now, and the time spent faffing around with "Trenti iced coffee, 12 pumps [sugar-free] vanilla, 12 pumps [sugar-free] hazelnut, 12 pumps [sugar-free] caramel, 5 pumps skinny mocha, a splash of soy, pour in coffee only up to the star on the siren's head, ice, and then double blend it!" is gonna feel damn inconvenient, I'd wager.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:13 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yeah I don’t use people’s names when they’re on name tags because I would fucking hate it if I was a retail employee.
posted by bq at 10:14 AM on May 16, 2021 [20 favorites]
posted by bq at 10:14 AM on May 16, 2021 [20 favorites]
What? They were named after the distinctive vestments of the Frappuchin order of friars.
This is a joke right?
For reference, wikipedia has it as: Frappuccino is a portmanteau of "frappe", the New England name from the french "lait frappé", a milkshake with ice cream, and cappuccino, an espresso coffee with frothed milk. The word was coined and trademarked in Boston, Massachusetts.
Lest anyone should repeat the monk story elsewhere as fact.
posted by Dysk at 10:26 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
This is a joke right?
For reference, wikipedia has it as: Frappuccino is a portmanteau of "frappe", the New England name from the french "lait frappé", a milkshake with ice cream, and cappuccino, an espresso coffee with frothed milk. The word was coined and trademarked in Boston, Massachusetts.
Lest anyone should repeat the monk story elsewhere as fact.
posted by Dysk at 10:26 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
They always take note of people's nametags so they can say "Thank you, Alice!" or whatever. One day one of the workers thanked them for always being courteous and noted, "You're the only person who ever uses my name!" We live in a major metro area, so it wasn't like a small n situation. I despair for humanity.
This seems like something people might have a wide range of feelings about, though. Wearing those nametags isn't a choice, so I don't assume that someone wearing one actually wants me to know or use their name.
Yeah, this's come up in a couple threads in the past, depending on who you ask, where you're at, social class, etc. you've got about even odds of someone going "Aww, how humane" or "burn it with fire" at the prospect of using an employee's name un-offered. (naturally this gets complicated by frequency of people doing so to harass said employee, etc.)
Myself, I'm inclined towards the "true names have power" interpretation. It's like believing the singing & dancing that happens at Coldstone when you tip them is that the employees are just that happy, rather than it being corporate policy & people like seeing just how small of a tip they can still buy someone's forced cheer with.
But either way, there's no escaping some people thinking you're rude!
posted by CrystalDave at 10:27 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
This seems like something people might have a wide range of feelings about, though. Wearing those nametags isn't a choice, so I don't assume that someone wearing one actually wants me to know or use their name.
Yeah, this's come up in a couple threads in the past, depending on who you ask, where you're at, social class, etc. you've got about even odds of someone going "Aww, how humane" or "burn it with fire" at the prospect of using an employee's name un-offered. (naturally this gets complicated by frequency of people doing so to harass said employee, etc.)
Myself, I'm inclined towards the "true names have power" interpretation. It's like believing the singing & dancing that happens at Coldstone when you tip them is that the employees are just that happy, rather than it being corporate policy & people like seeing just how small of a tip they can still buy someone's forced cheer with.
But either way, there's no escaping some people thinking you're rude!
posted by CrystalDave at 10:27 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
This thread makes many fine points about employee difficulties but it also has a very strong “No, it’s the children who are wrong” vibe.
In Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books, to know someone's true name is to hold power over them. I think she was onto something.
To be a pedant, being able to name things gives people power over them in the New Testament as well, if not in even older literature.as well.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:27 AM on May 16, 2021
In Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books, to know someone's true name is to hold power over them. I think she was onto something.
To be a pedant, being able to name things gives people power over them in the New Testament as well, if not in even older literature.as well.
posted by Going To Maine at 10:27 AM on May 16, 2021
In Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books, to know someone's true name is to hold power over them. I think she was onto something.
We are instructed not to dress children in anything bearing their name, to protect them from strangers.
Employees, meanwhile...
posted by Cardinal Fang at 10:31 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
We are instructed not to dress children in anything bearing their name, to protect them from strangers.
Employees, meanwhile...
posted by Cardinal Fang at 10:31 AM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
Calling people by their name , especially people you don't know and depending on how you do it, is a way of establishing dominance.
posted by signal at 10:55 AM on May 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by signal at 10:55 AM on May 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
Dysk: "Have you heard of rhetorical questions?"
No, could you explain?
posted by signal at 10:55 AM on May 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
No, could you explain?
posted by signal at 10:55 AM on May 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
Calling people by their name , especially people you don't know and depending on how you do it, is a way of establishing dominance.
I also associate it with people who have gone through certain kinds of sales trainings; they are the ones who repeat your name way too often in a single sentence.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:04 AM on May 16, 2021 [14 favorites]
I also associate it with people who have gone through certain kinds of sales trainings; they are the ones who repeat your name way too often in a single sentence.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:04 AM on May 16, 2021 [14 favorites]
No, could you explain?
I could, but you see, I have heard of rhetorical questions.
posted by Dysk at 11:06 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I could, but you see, I have heard of rhetorical questions.
posted by Dysk at 11:06 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I actually wanted to try the Unicorn Frappuchino or whatever it was a few years ago
Oh, oh, I can answer this one - my work buddies had walked over to Starbucks and got one and we all tried it and it was disgusting and the person who bought it threw it away - there was way, way too much going on with it and out of a group of four or five people, one of whom really, really loves sweet Starbucks drinks, no one wanted to finish it . Now, I am not a huge fan of Starbucks, as you can tell, but in general their sweet summer drinks are tasty enough for occasional drinking and I wouldn't turn down a free one. But that Unicorn one was a pure stunt drink and I don't think you missed much - I think their other fun drinks have been funner.
posted by Frowner at 11:06 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Oh, oh, I can answer this one - my work buddies had walked over to Starbucks and got one and we all tried it and it was disgusting and the person who bought it threw it away - there was way, way too much going on with it and out of a group of four or five people, one of whom really, really loves sweet Starbucks drinks, no one wanted to finish it . Now, I am not a huge fan of Starbucks, as you can tell, but in general their sweet summer drinks are tasty enough for occasional drinking and I wouldn't turn down a free one. But that Unicorn one was a pure stunt drink and I don't think you missed much - I think their other fun drinks have been funner.
posted by Frowner at 11:06 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Mod note: please knock off the rhetorical question derail. Thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
In Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea books, to know someone's true name is to hold power over them. I think she was onto something.
"Sir, this a DMV and I am not a Fae."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
"Sir, this a DMV and I am not a Fae."
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 11:09 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I just don't see the inconvenience and source of outrage over this method of ordering.
Because there are human beings making your drink. If your drink is three times as complicated as an average order, that is inconvenient. If everybody starts doing it because it's a tiktok trend, it's just going to make your job three times harder, and no one will extend anything your way even though your job is now that much more difficult. You're not going to get a higher salary, you're not going to get more understanding customers, you probably won't even make much more in tips because of the way that tips operate at Starbucks.
I couldn't even buy feta cheese at the grocery store for 2 months because it went viral on tiktok. I can't imagine what these baristas are going through, especially on top of the unbelievable nonsense that service workers (in the United States particularly) have had to deal with throughout the pandemic. We seem to have really lost sight of the fact that convenience comes from human labor, and in these situations the laborers are usually woefully underpaid for what they do and overworked without any care for their wellness, health, or anything approaching job satisfaction.
As far as calling the people who are making your coffee for you by their name, I have found that people appreciate direct eye contact, a smize (can't see your smile with a mask on!), and a large tip.
posted by twelve cent archie at 11:20 AM on May 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
Because there are human beings making your drink. If your drink is three times as complicated as an average order, that is inconvenient. If everybody starts doing it because it's a tiktok trend, it's just going to make your job three times harder, and no one will extend anything your way even though your job is now that much more difficult. You're not going to get a higher salary, you're not going to get more understanding customers, you probably won't even make much more in tips because of the way that tips operate at Starbucks.
I couldn't even buy feta cheese at the grocery store for 2 months because it went viral on tiktok. I can't imagine what these baristas are going through, especially on top of the unbelievable nonsense that service workers (in the United States particularly) have had to deal with throughout the pandemic. We seem to have really lost sight of the fact that convenience comes from human labor, and in these situations the laborers are usually woefully underpaid for what they do and overworked without any care for their wellness, health, or anything approaching job satisfaction.
As far as calling the people who are making your coffee for you by their name, I have found that people appreciate direct eye contact, a smize (can't see your smile with a mask on!), and a large tip.
posted by twelve cent archie at 11:20 AM on May 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
I'm starting to wonder if threads like these should have trigger warnings for people coming from front of house service industry jobs. Cannot read anymore myself.
Peace out...
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:21 AM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
Peace out...
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 11:21 AM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
Irish equivalent for teenage me? My uncle, taking the job very seriously, "teaching" me how to drink Guinness by having the barman add some raspberry cordial to my glass (obviously not a pint, because girl). He was horrified at a wedding a few years later to see me drinking very unladylike pints (sans raspberry also).
posted by recklessbrother at 11:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by recklessbrother at 11:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Update: after all this Starbucks talk, I had an errand to run early this morning, and drove past two locations. Having not been to one since October, I ended up using the drive-through at one of them, to order what I've always ordered, a latte. Just a plain, boring latte. While waiting in line, which was long, I got a good look at the menu. It really has turned into a cross between Dunkin' Donuts and Dairy Queen. I never even found the regular coffee on it, so ensnared was I in the conglomeration of various sugar-sugar-fat combinations, seductively modelled in glowing colors. Whoever called it cake in a cup (somewhere in this thread) was on-point. The next time I want to take a step closer to acquiring diabetes, while also needing an energy pick-me-up, I'll know just where to go.
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 11:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Armed Only With Hubris at 11:36 AM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
My husband gets a lot of Starbucks gift cards so we go there when we're out and about. He orders green tea usually. This article answers why they always ask if he wants it hot or iced: starbucks sells more iced drinks than hot now.
posted by vespabelle at 11:46 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by vespabelle at 11:46 AM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Calling people by their name , especially people you don't know and depending on how you do it, is a way of establishing dominance.
"Oh, you're JENNIFER!" says the eagle-eyed biddy spotting my nametag at some work event, making me feel like a pinned bug. She uses the name multiple times in conversation, making me deeply wish she wouldn't. Like uh...I know who you're talking to here and I'm the only Jennifer in the vicinity, you don't need to hammer it into me.
"JENNIFER said that," says some random jerk claiming something that isn't true. They use your name like a bludgeon, like a weapon, to report it to your boss to get you in trouble. All because they have your name.
I really don't want to give my name since it can and will be used against me in the court of work. There's just something worse about that happening in live action/conversation as opposed to them just getting your name over email. There's kind of a shame about the "name on your shirt" because you don't have a choice about handing your name over to assholes that can and will use it against you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:18 PM on May 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
"Oh, you're JENNIFER!" says the eagle-eyed biddy spotting my nametag at some work event, making me feel like a pinned bug. She uses the name multiple times in conversation, making me deeply wish she wouldn't. Like uh...I know who you're talking to here and I'm the only Jennifer in the vicinity, you don't need to hammer it into me.
"JENNIFER said that," says some random jerk claiming something that isn't true. They use your name like a bludgeon, like a weapon, to report it to your boss to get you in trouble. All because they have your name.
I really don't want to give my name since it can and will be used against me in the court of work. There's just something worse about that happening in live action/conversation as opposed to them just getting your name over email. There's kind of a shame about the "name on your shirt" because you don't have a choice about handing your name over to assholes that can and will use it against you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:18 PM on May 16, 2021 [15 favorites]
There's kind of a shame about the "name on your shirt" because you don't have a choice about handing your name over to assholes that can and will use it against you.
And if they don't see it, they'll demand it, especially when they want to try to intimidate you; "What's your name?" they ask angrily and almost sure to be followed by I'm going to speak to your manager or some variation of "Do you know who I am?"/"I come here all the time and..." Fuck that.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:30 PM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
And if they don't see it, they'll demand it, especially when they want to try to intimidate you; "What's your name?" they ask angrily and almost sure to be followed by I'm going to speak to your manager or some variation of "Do you know who I am?"/"I come here all the time and..." Fuck that.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:30 PM on May 16, 2021 [13 favorites]
Dip Flash: "I also associate it with people who have gone through certain kinds of sales trainings; they are the ones who repeat your name way too often in a single sentence."
It's great fun to turn the technique back at them and watch them get flustered. They usually double down and use your name MORE, as if they could beat you into submission.
posted by signal at 12:59 PM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
It's great fun to turn the technique back at them and watch them get flustered. They usually double down and use your name MORE, as if they could beat you into submission.
posted by signal at 12:59 PM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I couldn't even buy feta cheese at the grocery store for 2 months because it went viral on tiktok.
The first intimation that things were getting out of hand came one early-fall evening in the late nineteen-forties.
posted by aws17576 at 1:02 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
The first intimation that things were getting out of hand came one early-fall evening in the late nineteen-forties.
posted by aws17576 at 1:02 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I also associate it with people who have gone through certain kinds of sales trainings
Either that or some kind of bullshit self-help book they've read. When anyone does it to me, I immediately conclude I shouldn't trust this person an inch - which is presumably the opposite of the desired effect.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:04 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Either that or some kind of bullshit self-help book they've read. When anyone does it to me, I immediately conclude I shouldn't trust this person an inch - which is presumably the opposite of the desired effect.
posted by Paul Slade at 2:04 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh man I totally forgot about that feta cheese tomato sauce thing from earlier this year. Another tiktok recipe I got roped into.
That...was not a good recipe.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:25 PM on May 16, 2021
That...was not a good recipe.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:25 PM on May 16, 2021
To over-explain someone else's joke: it appears to be a reference to the non-joke fact that the word cappuccino is named after Capuchin friars.
posted by What is E. T. short for? at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by What is E. T. short for? at 2:30 PM on May 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
Because we as individuals are responsible for moral reasoning about how we treat others
Yes I think that's important, but individual reasoning is also imperfect and has its limits. It's susceptible to a person's own biases and past experiences. And it gets short-circuited when people are stressed, tired, hungry or even just haven't gotten their caffeine. And it's not only you reasoning how you individually treat others, but in this case it's also how you and other people around you doing the same thing (e.g., buying something) are treating others, which adds another layer of complexity to the whole thing because you're bringing in more actors that you need to be aware of and attempt to anticipate behavior for but have no way of knowing what they are actually going to do. And not only because people will order differently, but two people can have the same information and be in the same situation but come to different conclusions on how to act.
I mean, I think we saw part of it during the last year of the pandemic. The expectation that everyone would just reason that it's good to wear masks took way too long to happen in the US. And it felt like places like Costco that just made mask wearing as mandatory as possible were right not to rely on that.
And are the other suggestions in this thread to think about Starbucks and it's staff is just an indirect way to suggest people to maybe not go to Starbucks to begin with? Because rather than having to understand at what times a Starbucks is busy, whether it's understaffed at the moment, if there are any active online trends that would increase the likelihood of a custom order, and whether someone's own order adds a unnecessary burden to staff production capacity in comparison to other orders, it may just be easier for an individual to get their drink elsewhere. I mean, it's not like other places don't serve caffeinated drinks. And Thai tea, Vietnamese iced coffee, and boba milk tea are all sweet drinks with caffeine that are delicious (and usually are served by Asian-owned businesses, which the social media tells me to support too—Uh oh, I can see where this is going).
posted by FJT at 2:50 PM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes I think that's important, but individual reasoning is also imperfect and has its limits. It's susceptible to a person's own biases and past experiences. And it gets short-circuited when people are stressed, tired, hungry or even just haven't gotten their caffeine. And it's not only you reasoning how you individually treat others, but in this case it's also how you and other people around you doing the same thing (e.g., buying something) are treating others, which adds another layer of complexity to the whole thing because you're bringing in more actors that you need to be aware of and attempt to anticipate behavior for but have no way of knowing what they are actually going to do. And not only because people will order differently, but two people can have the same information and be in the same situation but come to different conclusions on how to act.
I mean, I think we saw part of it during the last year of the pandemic. The expectation that everyone would just reason that it's good to wear masks took way too long to happen in the US. And it felt like places like Costco that just made mask wearing as mandatory as possible were right not to rely on that.
And are the other suggestions in this thread to think about Starbucks and it's staff is just an indirect way to suggest people to maybe not go to Starbucks to begin with? Because rather than having to understand at what times a Starbucks is busy, whether it's understaffed at the moment, if there are any active online trends that would increase the likelihood of a custom order, and whether someone's own order adds a unnecessary burden to staff production capacity in comparison to other orders, it may just be easier for an individual to get their drink elsewhere. I mean, it's not like other places don't serve caffeinated drinks. And Thai tea, Vietnamese iced coffee, and boba milk tea are all sweet drinks with caffeine that are delicious (and usually are served by Asian-owned businesses, which the social media tells me to support too—Uh oh, I can see where this is going).
posted by FJT at 2:50 PM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I have the app and was using it from time-to-time pre-pandemic (when your job can end at 3 in the morning and start up again at 10 am the next day, it's... useful) but everything about it is designed to separate the customer from seeing or acknowledging the labor that goes into making their drinks. You press a few buttons on your phone when you're going over the bridge, walk into Starbucks and your drink is waiting for you -- without interacting with either a cashier or a barista in the process. Though it's sold as an easy way to avoid the line and score yourself an occasional free drink, I feel like the actual reason for its existence is to get people to order much more expensive drinks than they would normally without fearing the eyeroll of the people making those drinks (or the people behind you in line). Pre-app, I would poke an eye in to the Starbucks -- are they slammed? Maybe I'll just drink the coffee at work. Or even -- are they slammed? Maybe today's not the day for my cold foam cold brew. The app is designed so that even basically compassionate people won't have to face that choice -- Your drink is probably ready when you get there no matter how busy they are, and if you do feel guilty about it, hey, what can you do, you didn't know, what's done is done.
All this to say - thank (and tip) your barista no matter what you're ordering and be conscious that whether you are in the store or not your drink takes time and effort to make (and some more than others). Just because you're following the rules of the app doesn't mean you're not being an asshole.
posted by matcha action at 2:54 PM on May 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
All this to say - thank (and tip) your barista no matter what you're ordering and be conscious that whether you are in the store or not your drink takes time and effort to make (and some more than others). Just because you're following the rules of the app doesn't mean you're not being an asshole.
posted by matcha action at 2:54 PM on May 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
I never drank coffee before my last in-office job. I treated it as something medicinal rather than tasty, a slow-drip caffeine IV, so the taste didn't bother me much. The darker, the better.
But I did pour in a shot of Torani syrups from home once in a while. Chocolate, usually; sometimes raspberry or blackberry or black cherry.
I felt like I was cheating. I don't any more.
posted by delfin at 3:03 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
But I did pour in a shot of Torani syrups from home once in a while. Chocolate, usually; sometimes raspberry or blackberry or black cherry.
I felt like I was cheating. I don't any more.
posted by delfin at 3:03 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I’m certainly not condoning ruining a barista’s day to indulge a horde of tiktok followers but after this Sugared or Iced Coffee is An Abomination thread and the cake thread and the last several alcohol threads...I feel like one thing that has become clear is that Metafilter’s revolution will absolutely not have dancing.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:10 PM on May 16, 2021 [28 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 3:10 PM on May 16, 2021 [28 favorites]
I do feel mildly obliged to push back against "the TikTok feta tomato pasta recipe was bad" because wow, no, it's really good. I have the leftovers of half a recipe in the fridge and am planning to have them for dinner tonight with some added roasted peppers. Also my spouse, who usually really dislikes tomatoes in concentrations stronger than "sauce on a pizza" loves the recipe.
posted by Lexica at 3:27 PM on May 16, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 3:27 PM on May 16, 2021 [7 favorites]
And not to abuse the edit button...
I’m certainly not condoning ruining a barista’s day to indulge a horde of tiktok followers but after this Sugared or Iced Coffee is An Abomination thread and the cake thread and the last several alcohol threads...I feel like one thing that has become clear is that Metafilter’s revolution will absolutely not have dancing.
I think the problem is the mismatch of expectations, compensation, and what's reasonable to demand. My spouse is a bartender who currently works in the event-and-festival end, because it makes a lot more sense financially. He likes working gigs where it's about getting the drinks out quickly and efficiently without too much polish.
He previously worked at a high-end tiki bar and LOVED it. You want the garnishes of crushed-ice domes drizzled with grenadine? GOT THAT. You want pineapple leaf garnishes and flamed toppings? GOT THAT. You want a bartender who's just waiting for an opportunity to dunk an edible orchid in high-proof rum, then light it on fire and eat it for your entertainment? GOT THAT.
And if people are willing to pay $14+ per cocktail (not adjusted for 2021 pricing, probably more like $18-20 now), that's possible. If they're not, that's not possible.
posted by Lexica at 3:40 PM on May 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
I’m certainly not condoning ruining a barista’s day to indulge a horde of tiktok followers but after this Sugared or Iced Coffee is An Abomination thread and the cake thread and the last several alcohol threads...I feel like one thing that has become clear is that Metafilter’s revolution will absolutely not have dancing.
I think the problem is the mismatch of expectations, compensation, and what's reasonable to demand. My spouse is a bartender who currently works in the event-and-festival end, because it makes a lot more sense financially. He likes working gigs where it's about getting the drinks out quickly and efficiently without too much polish.
He previously worked at a high-end tiki bar and LOVED it. You want the garnishes of crushed-ice domes drizzled with grenadine? GOT THAT. You want pineapple leaf garnishes and flamed toppings? GOT THAT. You want a bartender who's just waiting for an opportunity to dunk an edible orchid in high-proof rum, then light it on fire and eat it for your entertainment? GOT THAT.
And if people are willing to pay $14+ per cocktail (not adjusted for 2021 pricing, probably more like $18-20 now), that's possible. If they're not, that's not possible.
posted by Lexica at 3:40 PM on May 16, 2021 [11 favorites]
I lived in Seattle from the early 90s through the late 2000s and Starbucks is pretty much bred in the bone at this point. Have known lots of folks who worked at corporate.... shared an office with an analytical chemist who developed their instant coffee. I live in the Boston area now and as I am not a sports fan in any way, shape, or form, when the subject of sports comes up I will say that after living in Seattle so long, Starbucks is my home team.
In the last year one of the few things that helped me fight lockdown claustrophobia in a safe way was ordering my standard drink (grande Pike Place with heavy cream) through the app, ducking into the storefront to pick it up while wearing my mask, and drinking it while driving around in the bubble of my car. I care not one whit if this makes me basic. There were many long weeks when this was the only thing that would feel normal and happy, and I was glad for it.
posted by Sublimity at 4:59 PM on May 16, 2021 [14 favorites]
In the last year one of the few things that helped me fight lockdown claustrophobia in a safe way was ordering my standard drink (grande Pike Place with heavy cream) through the app, ducking into the storefront to pick it up while wearing my mask, and drinking it while driving around in the bubble of my car. I care not one whit if this makes me basic. There were many long weeks when this was the only thing that would feel normal and happy, and I was glad for it.
posted by Sublimity at 4:59 PM on May 16, 2021 [14 favorites]
Oh man I totally forgot about that feta cheese tomato sauce thing from earlier this year. Another tiktok recipe I got roped into.
That...was not a good recipe.
Are you kidding? That recipe is amazing. And FWIW it didn't get its start on TikTok but on a Finnish food blog.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 6:00 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
That...was not a good recipe.
Are you kidding? That recipe is amazing. And FWIW it didn't get its start on TikTok but on a Finnish food blog.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 6:00 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
I've introspected myself and yes there is a certain snobbery in looking down on sweet dairy drinks, which I guess I should acknowledge are a small fun treat for a lot of people, and why not? On the other hand, some of them seem like grotesque excess in terms of the choice and variations (this is a non-American thing, I also feel this way about how OJ has different levels of pulp in US supermarkets, are you kidding me?). On the third hand, isn't it wonderful that we can deliver this to people, and would it be any different if it were delivered by space-age fully automated luxury communism? It's complicated as a plate of beans, as always.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:13 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:13 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
OJ has different levels of pulp in US supermarkets, are you kidding me?)
A couple of days ago I saw a social media post for a vaccine clinic at a Dick's in Seattle, which had a choice of vaccines, and came with a free burger. Obviously this is a pretty unmitigated good thing, but it is also 1000% an "Only In America" situation.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 6:29 PM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
A couple of days ago I saw a social media post for a vaccine clinic at a Dick's in Seattle, which had a choice of vaccines, and came with a free burger. Obviously this is a pretty unmitigated good thing, but it is also 1000% an "Only In America" situation.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 6:29 PM on May 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
I’m certainly not condoning ruining a barista’s day to indulge a horde of tiktok followers but after this Sugared or Iced Coffee is An Abomination thread and the cake thread and the last several alcohol threads...I feel like one thing that has become clear is that Metafilter’s revolution will absolutely not have dancing.
Come on, dude. No one here is against fun or anything. We just also happen to believe that barista's should not be exploited in the interest of pursuing that fun.
....I mean, you're talkin' to someone who is developing an addiction to spiking her soft drinks with this freaky neon-green mint syrup. I just make them myself is all, instead of bugging someone else to make me up something not on the regular menu.
Lemon soda with the mint is best, don't knock it till you try it
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:05 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Come on, dude. No one here is against fun or anything. We just also happen to believe that barista's should not be exploited in the interest of pursuing that fun.
....I mean, you're talkin' to someone who is developing an addiction to spiking her soft drinks with this freaky neon-green mint syrup. I just make them myself is all, instead of bugging someone else to make me up something not on the regular menu.
Lemon soda with the mint is best, don't knock it till you try it
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:05 PM on May 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Melbourne coffee culture is next level
My dad was a huge coffee drinker his whole life, but in a country without a "coffee" culture, when he came to Melbourne, his mind was completely blown when he found out the 7/11 store on the corner does a "real" expresso coffee, for just $1, and that it (in his words) was SOOOOO good. He had one every morning while he here on holiday.
Starbucks failure in Australia is quite amusing. In its first seven years in Australia, Starbucks accumulated $105 million in losses, forcing the company to close 61 locations, leaving only 23 Starbucks stores throughout the entire continent.
Australian coffee culture was born out of Italian culture of meeting with friends at a cafe and knowing your local barista - contrast this to Starbucks, where coffee is a reliable mass market commodity like McDonalds.
posted by xdvesper at 7:12 PM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
My dad was a huge coffee drinker his whole life, but in a country without a "coffee" culture, when he came to Melbourne, his mind was completely blown when he found out the 7/11 store on the corner does a "real" expresso coffee, for just $1, and that it (in his words) was SOOOOO good. He had one every morning while he here on holiday.
Starbucks failure in Australia is quite amusing. In its first seven years in Australia, Starbucks accumulated $105 million in losses, forcing the company to close 61 locations, leaving only 23 Starbucks stores throughout the entire continent.
Australian coffee culture was born out of Italian culture of meeting with friends at a cafe and knowing your local barista - contrast this to Starbucks, where coffee is a reliable mass market commodity like McDonalds.
posted by xdvesper at 7:12 PM on May 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
I wish there was less snobbery and meanness in this thread about people's tastes and preferences. There's a way to have this conversation without needing to also prove how sophisticated you are in comparison.
posted by erratic meatsack at 8:28 PM on May 16, 2021 [23 favorites]
posted by erratic meatsack at 8:28 PM on May 16, 2021 [23 favorites]
"You don't even know my real name. I'm the Lizard King."
posted by Meatbomb at 9:06 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Meatbomb at 9:06 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
"I can drink anything..."
posted by Windopaene at 9:17 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Windopaene at 9:17 PM on May 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I feel like one thing that has become clear is that Metafilter’s revolution will absolutely not have dancing.
Oh yes it will. What it won't have is dancing on other people's faces.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:34 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Oh yes it will. What it won't have is dancing on other people's faces.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:34 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
"I also associate it with people who have gone through certain kinds of sales trainings; they are the ones who repeat your name way too often in a single sentence."
It's great fun to turn the technique back at them and watch them get flustered. They usually double down and use your name MORE, as if they could beat you into submission.
Do not laugh. I have it on reasonable authority that in a certain call centre they used to have a competition to see who could say the customer's name the most number of times during one call.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:38 AM on May 17, 2021
It's great fun to turn the technique back at them and watch them get flustered. They usually double down and use your name MORE, as if they could beat you into submission.
Do not laugh. I have it on reasonable authority that in a certain call centre they used to have a competition to see who could say the customer's name the most number of times during one call.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 12:38 AM on May 17, 2021
The way hot coffee is quickly dying out among people under 30 really does make you marvel at how it became so popular in the first place.
Its a drink with a very acquired taste which nosedives into bitter garbage if you mess up the complicated brewing process even a bit and it only stays drinkable for a brief period.
I think its similar to the way vapes are replacing cigarettes in that an iced coffee confection or even a can of peach monster just makes so much more sense to anyone without a history with hot coffee.
posted by zymil at 2:03 AM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Its a drink with a very acquired taste which nosedives into bitter garbage if you mess up the complicated brewing process even a bit and it only stays drinkable for a brief period.
I think its similar to the way vapes are replacing cigarettes in that an iced coffee confection or even a can of peach monster just makes so much more sense to anyone without a history with hot coffee.
posted by zymil at 2:03 AM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Are you kidding? That recipe is amazing
Perhaps I did it wrong (again, TikTok is the worst possible platform to convey a recipe but it's 2021 and here we are), but the unbalanced acid in the cheese just made the whole sauce unpalatable for me. Like, I enjoy blue cheese on a salad but I wouldn't bathe my lasagna in it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:11 AM on May 17, 2021
Perhaps I did it wrong (again, TikTok is the worst possible platform to convey a recipe but it's 2021 and here we are), but the unbalanced acid in the cheese just made the whole sauce unpalatable for me. Like, I enjoy blue cheese on a salad but I wouldn't bathe my lasagna in it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:11 AM on May 17, 2021
Starbucks opened to huge amount of hype in India. I remember that people went in evening dresses and stuff. I realize this must sound amusing to Americans but the arrival of Starbucks here felt like we'd Made It.
And then I was really, really surprised at how utterly ordinary (and extremely overpriced) the coffee was. Every cold beverage seemed to be equally sugar and ice and nothing much else. The only reason I continued visiting on and off was because the Starbucks close to my workplace was in a beautiful heritage building and was aesthetically pleasing, and I often needed some time to recover from my (often comically bad) workdays. They certainly do not have these many customizations available here. Or maybe they do, I've just never tried them.
All in all, I prefer filter coffee to most other versions. Makes the house smell like heaven, too.
posted by Nieshka at 7:38 AM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
And then I was really, really surprised at how utterly ordinary (and extremely overpriced) the coffee was. Every cold beverage seemed to be equally sugar and ice and nothing much else. The only reason I continued visiting on and off was because the Starbucks close to my workplace was in a beautiful heritage building and was aesthetically pleasing, and I often needed some time to recover from my (often comically bad) workdays. They certainly do not have these many customizations available here. Or maybe they do, I've just never tried them.
All in all, I prefer filter coffee to most other versions. Makes the house smell like heaven, too.
posted by Nieshka at 7:38 AM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
There was a LOT of negative, shaming commentary about sweetened drinks in general on this thread, well aside from any face-dancing, thanks. I think it was the comment about adding any flavor to your own coffee at home being "cheating" that pushed me over.
My anger at the Evil Evil Sugar Is For Children and People of No Taste drumbeat goes well beyond MeFi though, and perhaps it is unfair to single one perpetrator out.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:40 AM on May 17, 2021 [14 favorites]
My anger at the Evil Evil Sugar Is For Children and People of No Taste drumbeat goes well beyond MeFi though, and perhaps it is unfair to single one perpetrator out.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:40 AM on May 17, 2021 [14 favorites]
Any coffee discussion on Metafilter reminds me of the charms of my India-born British piano teacher who taught me how to make proper tea on penalty of having to do arpeggios twice if I did it wrong. Here it seems like someone asks for a Mr. Coffee recommendation and is advised to heat their water to the precise temperature of hot springs at the base of Cotopaxi on the first day of the rainy season before spending the length of time it takes a coffee plant leaf to unfurl in the morning to depress the plunger in their aeropress or whatever...
Anyways, orthodoxy aside, I'll add my voice to the crowd that find calling people using an app to order a drink with 8 add ons abusive distasteful.
If you think your lovingly prepared artisanal coffee experience is any less marketing than what we're talking about here, I have a lovely bridge for you.
I would certainly agree that people who are standing in a long line at the train station at 8:10 in the morning ordering a drink with 11 customizations are committing a vaguely anti-social act. Service jobs are hard, and corporate decisions fall on service people, and we can all be mindful and tip well. it is a toxic culture. But the exploitation is coming from above. Like in the context of a well-run, well-staffed, well-stocked store which analyses drink orders to be sure there's an increase in staffing if the Pumpkin Spice X takes 3 more minutes to produce, and assuming the person buying the drink picks it up cheerfully and tips, is this really a labour issue? Or is it the base conditions that are the issue.
I'm not actually fully clear on this myself, like in my own mind.
But just slamming people for daring to use an app to order a drink seems off to me. The people I know who get the most joy out of their super customized macha lattes or whatever are my young, entry-level staff, who make enough above minimum to be able to get a fancy Starbucks now and then but who are not going to a Michelin star class restaurant anytime soon or driving out of town to get heirloom parsnips. They haven't been able to party in a group, see a concert, or go to a festival in over a year. I have seen them comparing their Friday treat drinks. I find it hard to get upset about it. (Knowing them I am sure they tipped and were kind.)
I used to work in a bakery and I remember the feeling of a complicated order. It was a pain and there was a certain anxious feeling because it wasn't just sticking a croissant in a bag. I'm sure I went home and bitched about them. And yet, it was being a part of that small business with a very delighted baker/owner whose eyes lit up at weird challenges (examples: "a cake that tastes like spring" and "200 marzipan tongues for our Dyke March party") that gave me the sense of what a real community business is, the joy of a kind of...co-creation.
I guess I tend to rail more against the idea that the best consumer experience is one that is mechanically fast and standardized.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:28 AM on May 17, 2021 [10 favorites]
Anyways, orthodoxy aside, I'll add my voice to the crowd that find calling people using an app to order a drink with 8 add ons abusive distasteful.
If you think your lovingly prepared artisanal coffee experience is any less marketing than what we're talking about here, I have a lovely bridge for you.
I would certainly agree that people who are standing in a long line at the train station at 8:10 in the morning ordering a drink with 11 customizations are committing a vaguely anti-social act. Service jobs are hard, and corporate decisions fall on service people, and we can all be mindful and tip well. it is a toxic culture. But the exploitation is coming from above. Like in the context of a well-run, well-staffed, well-stocked store which analyses drink orders to be sure there's an increase in staffing if the Pumpkin Spice X takes 3 more minutes to produce, and assuming the person buying the drink picks it up cheerfully and tips, is this really a labour issue? Or is it the base conditions that are the issue.
I'm not actually fully clear on this myself, like in my own mind.
But just slamming people for daring to use an app to order a drink seems off to me. The people I know who get the most joy out of their super customized macha lattes or whatever are my young, entry-level staff, who make enough above minimum to be able to get a fancy Starbucks now and then but who are not going to a Michelin star class restaurant anytime soon or driving out of town to get heirloom parsnips. They haven't been able to party in a group, see a concert, or go to a festival in over a year. I have seen them comparing their Friday treat drinks. I find it hard to get upset about it. (Knowing them I am sure they tipped and were kind.)
I used to work in a bakery and I remember the feeling of a complicated order. It was a pain and there was a certain anxious feeling because it wasn't just sticking a croissant in a bag. I'm sure I went home and bitched about them. And yet, it was being a part of that small business with a very delighted baker/owner whose eyes lit up at weird challenges (examples: "a cake that tastes like spring" and "200 marzipan tongues for our Dyke March party") that gave me the sense of what a real community business is, the joy of a kind of...co-creation.
I guess I tend to rail more against the idea that the best consumer experience is one that is mechanically fast and standardized.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:28 AM on May 17, 2021 [10 favorites]
My anger at the Evil Evil Sugar Is For Children and People of No Taste drumbeat goes well beyond MeFi though, and perhaps it is unfair to single one perpetrator out.
I agree that it's futile and ultimately harmful to just criticize people's personal tastes., but the photo in the OP lists "7 pumps... Dk Crml Sauce". The internet tells me that a pump of Caramel Sauce is about 1 ounce and approximately 100 calories. So aside from any complaints about personal taste, 700 calories of pure sugar is not a great choice health-wise. As a sometimes thing, sure. As a daily thing, it's a lot. It's an entire extra meal for a lot of people.
But like I said above, it's a good value for money in terms of calories if that's your primary concern. And I suppose there's someone out there for whom this is a good choice.
posted by GuyZero at 9:17 AM on May 17, 2021
I agree that it's futile and ultimately harmful to just criticize people's personal tastes., but the photo in the OP lists "7 pumps... Dk Crml Sauce". The internet tells me that a pump of Caramel Sauce is about 1 ounce and approximately 100 calories. So aside from any complaints about personal taste, 700 calories of pure sugar is not a great choice health-wise. As a sometimes thing, sure. As a daily thing, it's a lot. It's an entire extra meal for a lot of people.
But like I said above, it's a good value for money in terms of calories if that's your primary concern. And I suppose there's someone out there for whom this is a good choice.
posted by GuyZero at 9:17 AM on May 17, 2021
Also someone please tell me what "5 banana" is in the OP, please. My family is dying.
posted by GuyZero at 9:20 AM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by GuyZero at 9:20 AM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
It is probably the banana smoothie powder?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:26 AM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:26 AM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
But just slamming people for daring to use an app to order a drink seems off to me. The people I know who get the most joy out of their super customized macha lattes or whatever are my young, entry-level staff, who make enough above minimum to be able to get a fancy Starbucks now and then but who are not going to a Michelin star class restaurant anytime soon or driving out of town to get heirloom parsnips. They haven't been able to party in a group, see a concert, or go to a festival in over a year. I have seen them comparing their Friday treat drinks. I find it hard to get upset about it. (Knowing them I am sure they tipped and were kind.)
If they tipped and were kind they are actually not the people being slammed in the OP article, however.
I think the criticism of the app is more about how it removes a potential level of protection between the busy barista and the customer. What I mean is:
* Before the app came along, if someone wanted to try the latest New Hotness TikTok trend at their local Starbucks, they actually had to go to Starbucks in person - where they might potentially see that there's a big line there already, which might make them decide "whoops, maybe lemme try again when it is less busy so the poor baristas aren't tied up doing this for me."
* After the app, they could just order, without any foreknowledge about "but are the baristas super-busy right now". So the nice people might end up causing hassle for the barista without intending to. But as far as the barista is concerned, whether they meant to cause a headache or not is irrelevant, the headache is still there.
And anyway, the real source of the headache is the people who use the app and then are shits about it ("what do you mean my double reverse caramel soy decaf with chi powder isn't ready? I ordered an ENTIRE THREE MINUTES AGO on my app when I was TWO BLOCKS AWAY!").
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:30 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
If they tipped and were kind they are actually not the people being slammed in the OP article, however.
I think the criticism of the app is more about how it removes a potential level of protection between the busy barista and the customer. What I mean is:
* Before the app came along, if someone wanted to try the latest New Hotness TikTok trend at their local Starbucks, they actually had to go to Starbucks in person - where they might potentially see that there's a big line there already, which might make them decide "whoops, maybe lemme try again when it is less busy so the poor baristas aren't tied up doing this for me."
* After the app, they could just order, without any foreknowledge about "but are the baristas super-busy right now". So the nice people might end up causing hassle for the barista without intending to. But as far as the barista is concerned, whether they meant to cause a headache or not is irrelevant, the headache is still there.
And anyway, the real source of the headache is the people who use the app and then are shits about it ("what do you mean my double reverse caramel soy decaf with chi powder isn't ready? I ordered an ENTIRE THREE MINUTES AGO on my app when I was TWO BLOCKS AWAY!").
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:30 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Service jobs are hard, and corporate decisions fall on service people, and we can all be mindful and tip well. it is a toxic culture. But the exploitation is coming from above. Like in the context of a well-run, well-staffed, well-stocked store which analyses drink orders to be sure there's an increase in staffing if the Pumpkin Spice X takes 3 more minutes to produce, and assuming the person buying the drink picks it up cheerfully and tips, is this really a labour issue? Or is it the base conditions that are the issue.
It's both. Part of worker solidarity is not making life unduly hard for other workers - while the root of the problem is up the chain, our own choices do impact the lives of service workers, and we need to consider that as well. And the point of calling it abuse is to cut through how consumerism teaches us to consider service workers, and regard how our actions impact their lives.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:39 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
It's both. Part of worker solidarity is not making life unduly hard for other workers - while the root of the problem is up the chain, our own choices do impact the lives of service workers, and we need to consider that as well. And the point of calling it abuse is to cut through how consumerism teaches us to consider service workers, and regard how our actions impact their lives.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:39 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
The way hot coffee is quickly dying out among people under 30 really does make you marvel at how it became so popular in the first place.
I'm closing in on 40 myself, but I suspect two-thirds of it is that plain hot coffee is cheap and easy to make at home -- especially if you're just pouring over Folgers grounds from a can, which within living memory was the norm.
Even now, I would guess that plenty of the folks who order iced drinks at Starbucks still make hot coffee at home. (Though the discovery that cold brew is also, with a little forethought, easy to make has shaken up my home routine a little.)
posted by aws17576 at 9:41 AM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm closing in on 40 myself, but I suspect two-thirds of it is that plain hot coffee is cheap and easy to make at home -- especially if you're just pouring over Folgers grounds from a can, which within living memory was the norm.
Even now, I would guess that plenty of the folks who order iced drinks at Starbucks still make hot coffee at home. (Though the discovery that cold brew is also, with a little forethought, easy to make has shaken up my home routine a little.)
posted by aws17576 at 9:41 AM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
And anyway, the real source of the headache is the people who use the app and then are shits about it
The author of the article remembered nasty customers from the 90s and this is a MetaFilter add on but I don't see the article talking about snippy customers. I do see it talking about frustration in supply chains. And I'm sure that these drinks do make things harder during a rush, no question.
And yes, we agree the app isn't connecting to the front staff experience.
But in this thread people have literally said If you make one of these orders, you are an abusive asshole who is shitting on retail workers because you can. [First comment. Also, on preview, two comments up.]
posted by warriorqueen at 9:43 AM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
The author of the article remembered nasty customers from the 90s and this is a MetaFilter add on but I don't see the article talking about snippy customers. I do see it talking about frustration in supply chains. And I'm sure that these drinks do make things harder during a rush, no question.
And yes, we agree the app isn't connecting to the front staff experience.
But in this thread people have literally said If you make one of these orders, you are an abusive asshole who is shitting on retail workers because you can. [First comment. Also, on preview, two comments up.]
posted by warriorqueen at 9:43 AM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Put it this way.
You have a guy who has run into Starbucks to get a $3 Pike Place coffee with 5 minutes before his meeting.
You have a 17 year old who has ordered a $14 drink through the app.
Starbucks has created both of these customers.
The guy in line does not tip and starts screaming that his coffee is taking too long. But, we’re going to blame the girl because...? She’s responsible for never slowing the world down and causing captains of industry to be late with her crazy banana powder?
posted by warriorqueen at 10:04 AM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
You have a guy who has run into Starbucks to get a $3 Pike Place coffee with 5 minutes before his meeting.
You have a 17 year old who has ordered a $14 drink through the app.
Starbucks has created both of these customers.
The guy in line does not tip and starts screaming that his coffee is taking too long. But, we’re going to blame the girl because...? She’s responsible for never slowing the world down and causing captains of industry to be late with her crazy banana powder?
posted by warriorqueen at 10:04 AM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
TikTok is the worst possible platform to convey a recipe
TikTok is the worst possible platform to convey anything.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 10:11 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
TikTok is the worst possible platform to convey anything.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 10:11 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Any coffee discussion on Metafilter reminds me of the charms of my India-born British piano teacher who taught me how to make proper tea on penalty of having to do arpeggios twice if I did it wrong.
I guess the young Eddie Van Halen must have made lousy coffee.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 10:13 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
I guess the young Eddie Van Halen must have made lousy coffee.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 10:13 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
But, we’re going to blame the girl because...?
Because it turns out that someone has to make that drink she ordered, and she's just made their job harder. Yes, Starbucks is at fault by giving her the options, but she also holds responsibility for taking those options. And yes, this comes back to discussions of "no ethical consumption under capitalism", but even then, one is obligated to consider one's impact.
Also, my point isn't that app ordering is bad (it's not), but the ordering of complex drinks that increase the amount of labor that the barista needs to do is making things worse for the service worker who has to fulfill the order, and that is on the head of the person making the order.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Because it turns out that someone has to make that drink she ordered, and she's just made their job harder. Yes, Starbucks is at fault by giving her the options, but she also holds responsibility for taking those options. And yes, this comes back to discussions of "no ethical consumption under capitalism", but even then, one is obligated to consider one's impact.
Also, my point isn't that app ordering is bad (it's not), but the ordering of complex drinks that increase the amount of labor that the barista needs to do is making things worse for the service worker who has to fulfill the order, and that is on the head of the person making the order.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:19 AM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
You have a guy who has run into Starbucks to get a $3 Pike Place coffee with 5 minutes before his meeting.
You have a 17 year old who has ordered a $14 drink through the app.
This is basic Operations Research and job management stuff and people have been studying how to optimize this kind of thing for decades. Starbucks the faceless inhuman entity is more than capable of building a priority queuing system that dynamically reorders jobs in the queue to minimize average wait time or total aggregate wait time or whatever metric you want. That they have not indicates that they really don't care. Also, fundamentally peak periods are short and shitty and no amount of job ordering optimization really fixes that.
I don't think anyone has a moral responsibility to minimize the complexity of their order as some sort of tragedy-of-the-commons situation. Starbucks sets their store staffing levels as they will and that's a much bigger deal than any one order. Fundamentally 5-minute-man is never going to always get his coffee instantly regardless of the how simple his order is, depending on the current job backlog.
My personal opinion is that Americans think shared queues are fundamentally repugnant and that they should be able to move to the head of the line because they're rich or important or whatever but, thank the uncaring cold of space, it is not always possible. It is a fundamental rule of life that sometimes you're going to have to wait.
posted by GuyZero at 10:28 AM on May 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
You have a 17 year old who has ordered a $14 drink through the app.
This is basic Operations Research and job management stuff and people have been studying how to optimize this kind of thing for decades. Starbucks the faceless inhuman entity is more than capable of building a priority queuing system that dynamically reorders jobs in the queue to minimize average wait time or total aggregate wait time or whatever metric you want. That they have not indicates that they really don't care. Also, fundamentally peak periods are short and shitty and no amount of job ordering optimization really fixes that.
I don't think anyone has a moral responsibility to minimize the complexity of their order as some sort of tragedy-of-the-commons situation. Starbucks sets their store staffing levels as they will and that's a much bigger deal than any one order. Fundamentally 5-minute-man is never going to always get his coffee instantly regardless of the how simple his order is, depending on the current job backlog.
My personal opinion is that Americans think shared queues are fundamentally repugnant and that they should be able to move to the head of the line because they're rich or important or whatever but, thank the uncaring cold of space, it is not always possible. It is a fundamental rule of life that sometimes you're going to have to wait.
posted by GuyZero at 10:28 AM on May 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
You have a guy who has run into Starbucks to get a $3 Pike Place coffee with 5 minutes before his meeting. You have a 17 year old who has ordered a $14 drink through the app. The guy in line does not tip and starts screaming that his coffee is taking too long. But, we’re going to blame the girl because...? She’s responsible for never slowing the world down and causing captains of industry to be late with her crazy banana powder?
I was about to say "who's blaming the girl", but it's been pointed out that someone is. So I will preface this by saying that this is my own opinion:
In your scenario, I'd blame the dude for losing his shit, and I would not blame the 17-year-old. However, I would also point out that "good customer behavior" is a very broad range: the 17-year-old may be nice about it, but I'm hoping she's maybe realizing that "maybe let's wait until it's less busy to get the wacky drink" just because it'd be a nice thing to do (Sounds like she's patient, though, which is good and puts her above average). If it was the 17-year-old raising a snit, that would be an issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
I was about to say "who's blaming the girl", but it's been pointed out that someone is. So I will preface this by saying that this is my own opinion:
In your scenario, I'd blame the dude for losing his shit, and I would not blame the 17-year-old. However, I would also point out that "good customer behavior" is a very broad range: the 17-year-old may be nice about it, but I'm hoping she's maybe realizing that "maybe let's wait until it's less busy to get the wacky drink" just because it'd be a nice thing to do (Sounds like she's patient, though, which is good and puts her above average). If it was the 17-year-old raising a snit, that would be an issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:35 AM on May 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
Perhaps I did it wrong (again, TikTok is the worst possible platform to convey a recipe but it's 2021 and here we are), but the unbalanced acid in the cheese just made the whole sauce unpalatable for me. Like, I enjoy blue cheese on a salad but I wouldn't bathe my lasagna in it.
Kenji's demonstration of the recipe is pretty straight forward and I thought it turned out well.
posted by mmascolino at 10:56 AM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Kenji's demonstration of the recipe is pretty straight forward and I thought it turned out well.
posted by mmascolino at 10:56 AM on May 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Reading through this thread has been pretty interesting. The overwhelming take home message appears to be that fancy drinks are too hard to make, so we should just stay home and not buy anything at all. I don't go to Starbucks often, but I do spend far too many of my dollars at Dunkin Donuts and a few other fast food type places. It's possible that Starbucks is totally different, but all the apps I'm familiar with 1) tell you your order will be completed in 15 (sometimes longer, depending on the app/franchise) minutes and 2) occasionally display a pop-up screen alert telling you this location is not taking app orders right now. Thus, the in-store customers are prioritized in all circumstances.
posted by lucy.jakobs at 12:36 PM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by lucy.jakobs at 12:36 PM on May 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Also, my point isn't that app ordering is bad (it's not), but the ordering of complex drinks that increase the amount of labor that the barista needs to do is making things worse for the service worker who has to fulfill the order, and that is on the head of the person making the order.
Again, I agree that Tik Tok driven stunt drinks are a trend that makes baristas' lives needlessly difficult and most of the Tik Tok users involved are probably right about at the age where someone needs to sit them down and remind them that life isn't a video game and they need to be good citizens, and give them some guidance on how to do that.
I think the problem is we all have something in our minds that crosses the line from "well this is somewhat complex but acceptable" to "this is a stunt drink," but for a lot of folks on the thread that line falls right about at "latte with a flavored syrup" and for others it's when you get to the 5-banana range.
If the argument is simply that Starbucks should never have ever begun giving customers an option much beyond a plain cappuccino or a latte, or that it is irresponsible of anyone to order anything from basically the right-most 85% of the menu...I just don't know if that's...like at that point this isn't about Starbucks or TikTok or even the baristas anymore it's just about taste.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:42 PM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
Again, I agree that Tik Tok driven stunt drinks are a trend that makes baristas' lives needlessly difficult and most of the Tik Tok users involved are probably right about at the age where someone needs to sit them down and remind them that life isn't a video game and they need to be good citizens, and give them some guidance on how to do that.
I think the problem is we all have something in our minds that crosses the line from "well this is somewhat complex but acceptable" to "this is a stunt drink," but for a lot of folks on the thread that line falls right about at "latte with a flavored syrup" and for others it's when you get to the 5-banana range.
If the argument is simply that Starbucks should never have ever begun giving customers an option much beyond a plain cappuccino or a latte, or that it is irresponsible of anyone to order anything from basically the right-most 85% of the menu...I just don't know if that's...like at that point this isn't about Starbucks or TikTok or even the baristas anymore it's just about taste.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:42 PM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I agree that Tik Tok driven stunt drinks are a trend that makes baristas' lives needlessly difficult
I sort of understand this position but I also sort of don't... if a barista spends 10 minutes making 10 black coffees or 4 espresso shots or one stunt drink why does it matter? Because people waiting get abusive? One one hand, sure, that's bad, but fundamentally I think if people are being abusive it's not the victims' fault.
Baristas are paid for their time and if people stop going to Starbucks because they have to wait 5 minutes for plain coffee I don't think it's anyone's fault but Starbucks' management for understaffing their stores.
posted by GuyZero at 1:00 PM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
I sort of understand this position but I also sort of don't... if a barista spends 10 minutes making 10 black coffees or 4 espresso shots or one stunt drink why does it matter? Because people waiting get abusive? One one hand, sure, that's bad, but fundamentally I think if people are being abusive it's not the victims' fault.
Baristas are paid for their time and if people stop going to Starbucks because they have to wait 5 minutes for plain coffee I don't think it's anyone's fault but Starbucks' management for understaffing their stores.
posted by GuyZero at 1:00 PM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
But, we’re going to blame the girl because…?
Because it turns out that someone has to make that drink she ordered, and she's just made their job harder. Yes, Starbucks is at fault by giving her the options, but she also holds responsibility for taking those options. And yes, this comes back to discussions of "no ethical consumption under capitalism", but even then, one is obligated to consider one's impact.
Also, my point isn't that app ordering is bad (it's not), but the ordering of complex drinks that increase the amount of labor that the barista needs to do is making things worse for the service worker who has to fulfill the order, and that is on the head of the person making the order.
Seems to me, if blame must be assigned to someone for the crime of customizing coffee because they could without stopping to think if they should, perhaps it should go to the app designer for providing certain affordances for unlimited bonus items. I leave it to God, baristas, and Starbucks corporate to define what that cap should be and then to push a patch.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:32 PM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Because it turns out that someone has to make that drink she ordered, and she's just made their job harder. Yes, Starbucks is at fault by giving her the options, but she also holds responsibility for taking those options. And yes, this comes back to discussions of "no ethical consumption under capitalism", but even then, one is obligated to consider one's impact.
Also, my point isn't that app ordering is bad (it's not), but the ordering of complex drinks that increase the amount of labor that the barista needs to do is making things worse for the service worker who has to fulfill the order, and that is on the head of the person making the order.
Seems to me, if blame must be assigned to someone for the crime of customizing coffee because they could without stopping to think if they should, perhaps it should go to the app designer for providing certain affordances for unlimited bonus items. I leave it to God, baristas, and Starbucks corporate to define what that cap should be and then to push a patch.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:32 PM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed - do not make it personal, folks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:17 PM on May 17, 2021
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:17 PM on May 17, 2021
Should you hate:
A. The player
B. The game
C. The economic system that results in more than one kind of coffee
D. Some of the above
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:38 PM on May 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
A. The player
B. The game
C. The economic system that results in more than one kind of coffee
D. Some of the above
posted by Huffy Puffy at 2:38 PM on May 17, 2021 [12 favorites]
I think the unstated assumption here is that there's an informal time limit on how long it should take to make a single drink. Like, stunt drinks are not inherently bad for the barista; if they were given 30 minutes to make one and paid $50/hour, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. The problem is that Starbucks isn't incentivized to fix this issue for their workers, either by keeping orders under the time limit (limiting customizations, hiring more workers, improving queuing), or extending the time limit (setting clear expectations for extended wait times for their customers, empowering workers to ban the rude ones, not penalizing workers for making fewer drinks). As customers, the only things we can do on our side are to limit customizations at rush hour and be patient. Ultimately, like the economy, you can't solve these problems in the long run with individual charity. But if we ever see Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism, banana away.
posted by airmail at 3:08 PM on May 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
posted by airmail at 3:08 PM on May 17, 2021 [7 favorites]
Maybe they can implement an express(o) lane.
posted by Marticus at 3:48 PM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Marticus at 3:48 PM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
Are Starbucks baristas incentivized/graded/judged by their number of drinks produced per hour?
EDIT: Are they "penalized" for low drinks per hour? It's Starbucks so probably, but, just checking.
posted by Windopaene at 3:55 PM on May 17, 2021
EDIT: Are they "penalized" for low drinks per hour? It's Starbucks so probably, but, just checking.
posted by Windopaene at 3:55 PM on May 17, 2021
EDIT: Are they "penalized" for low drinks per hour? It’s Starbucks so probably, but, just checking.
This seems like a weird assumption to me, so I too would be interested to know. (A very quick search of r/starbucks gave me some people complaining, but not about that kind of tracking.) Do other fast food / fast drink places rate employees based on throughput?
posted by Going To Maine at 4:20 PM on May 17, 2021
This seems like a weird assumption to me, so I too would be interested to know. (A very quick search of r/starbucks gave me some people complaining, but not about that kind of tracking.) Do other fast food / fast drink places rate employees based on throughput?
posted by Going To Maine at 4:20 PM on May 17, 2021
(Incidentally, this is the r/starbucks thread about this article)
posted by Going To Maine at 4:21 PM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 4:21 PM on May 17, 2021 [3 favorites]
So aside from any complaints about personal taste, 700 calories of pure sugar is not a great choice health-wise. As a sometimes thing, sure. As a daily thing, it's a lot. It's an entire extra meal for a lot of people.
How on earth is this any of your business?
posted by naoko at 4:54 PM on May 17, 2021 [15 favorites]
How on earth is this any of your business?
posted by naoko at 4:54 PM on May 17, 2021 [15 favorites]
Do other fast food / fast drink places rate employees based on throughput?
When I was at Wendy's we were tracked on order prep time (basically time handed to customer - time order was entered at register). Also how much chili meat (ie hamburgers that have been overcooked because your order projection was optimistic) produced. Those two things were loosely inversely proportional. I could get my chili meat count to practically zero by screwing over the order time target. And finally on other wastage. There were ways to juke all those stats.
posted by Mitheral at 7:17 PM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
When I was at Wendy's we were tracked on order prep time (basically time handed to customer - time order was entered at register). Also how much chili meat (ie hamburgers that have been overcooked because your order projection was optimistic) produced. Those two things were loosely inversely proportional. I could get my chili meat count to practically zero by screwing over the order time target. And finally on other wastage. There were ways to juke all those stats.
posted by Mitheral at 7:17 PM on May 17, 2021 [5 favorites]
The overwhelming take home message appears to be that fancy drinks are too hard to make, so we should just stay home and not buy anything at all.
I am genuinely not seeing that as "the overwhelming take home message".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on May 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
I am genuinely not seeing that as "the overwhelming take home message".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:37 AM on May 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
"Be conscientious about how and when you order very complicated custom drinks" just has too much nuance, I guess. It's either a free-for-all, or it's taking your ball and going home.
posted by Dysk at 8:56 AM on May 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by Dysk at 8:56 AM on May 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yeah, my point is and has always been to recognize that there's a person on the other end of that order, and you should be conscientious of that fact. One of the great issues with American consumerism is that it teaches the consumer that they are the only important person in the equation, and that service workers are expected to bend to their will.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:15 AM on May 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:15 AM on May 18, 2021 [3 favorites]
The problem is, as often happens, several different issues and viewpoints exist and are being conflated. Some comments really have been "how DARE you make a complicated order you MONSTER" or "what is WRONG with you for LIKING a thing!" Honest, they're in this thread. Others, however, have been a more nuanced "maybe pay attention to how busy a place is before you do this, for the sake of both the employees of the business and the other customers", or "responsibility for repercussions of this is something of a balance between the customer who makes the order, the business that encourages it, and the app that makes it easy". Meanwhile, a third "let people like things!" crowd protests against the people making the first arguments, and the people making the second arguments think they're being called out unfairly, and then the people making the first arguments have issues with both the second and third arguments, and rail against them as if they were the same argument being made by the same people, while the people who make the second arguments say "well if I'm going to be ATTACKED for being REASONABLE I guess I'll just give up on EVERYTHING" and even I can't keep track of what I'm talking about anymore.
posted by kyrademon at 10:15 AM on May 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by kyrademon at 10:15 AM on May 18, 2021 [4 favorites]
Some comments really have been "how DARE you make a complicated order you MONSTER" or "what is WRONG with you for LIKING a thing!" Honest, they're in this thread.
I know, I've seen them. My point is that I don't see them as being the majority opinion, as it appears was being claimed.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:32 AM on May 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
I know, I've seen them. My point is that I don't see them as being the majority opinion, as it appears was being claimed.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:32 AM on May 18, 2021 [2 favorites]
My point is that I don't see them as being the majority opinion, as it appears was being claimed.
The 61 favourites on "if you [teenage girl who likes TikTok] order one of these drinks you are an abusive asshole and also, a guy got fired"* does lend that impression.
* Due to a Twitter post (I am not supporting this either), not due to the complexity of a drink or a speed issue, but hey, truth is not an issue here.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:46 AM on May 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
The 61 favourites on "if you [teenage girl who likes TikTok] order one of these drinks you are an abusive asshole and also, a guy got fired"* does lend that impression.
* Due to a Twitter post (I am not supporting this either), not due to the complexity of a drink or a speed issue, but hey, truth is not an issue here.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:46 AM on May 19, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes, the barista got fired over a tweet - in which they were venting over having to make an overcomplicated drink for someone calling themselves "Edward". Which is why Starbucks fired them for the tweet.
If you're going to complain about the truth not being an issue here, you shouldn't be omitting details yourself.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:54 AM on May 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
If you're going to complain about the truth not being an issue here, you shouldn't be omitting details yourself.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:54 AM on May 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
The barista seeking attention of their own by tweeting out someones drink order is just another layer of the same thing that creates the demand for those drinks, the constant sense of "me" being the center of a kind of media attention, where everyone and everything I come in contact with is just more potential grist for the mill of my growing celebrity. The quaint antique notion of privacy isn't even a consideration for those who thrive on their social media feed. And yet people talk about those drinks being empty calories...
posted by gusottertrout at 8:50 AM on May 19, 2021
posted by gusottertrout at 8:50 AM on May 19, 2021
If you're going to complain about the truth not being an issue here, you shouldn't be omitting details yourself.
I'm not. The Starbucks staff person was complaining on social media and their post went viral. If they'd been complaining about something other than an overcomplicated drink, they also would have been at risk of being fired.
The fact that they got fired rather than Starbucks fixing its app to limit customization tells you exactly who is at fault, and it's not the people using the app. Are people ordering stunt drinks occasionally annoying? No doubt.
GuyZero put it best, in my opinion: I don't think anyone has a moral responsibility to minimize the complexity of their order as some sort of tragedy-of-the-commons situation.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:59 AM on May 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm not. The Starbucks staff person was complaining on social media and their post went viral. If they'd been complaining about something other than an overcomplicated drink, they also would have been at risk of being fired.
The fact that they got fired rather than Starbucks fixing its app to limit customization tells you exactly who is at fault, and it's not the people using the app. Are people ordering stunt drinks occasionally annoying? No doubt.
GuyZero put it best, in my opinion: I don't think anyone has a moral responsibility to minimize the complexity of their order as some sort of tragedy-of-the-commons situation.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:59 AM on May 19, 2021 [4 favorites]
I do think if Starbucks workers launched some sort of mass “stop complicating our drinks!” campaign that would change the calculus here. But they haven’t, and this article doesn’t make it sound like they’re going to.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:32 PM on May 19, 2021
posted by Going To Maine at 1:32 PM on May 19, 2021
Pretty sure they'd get fired if they did launch a mass campaign. But I can say per the previous unicorn frap story, seeing an article or two or three or seven on this with the unhappiness of overstressed baristas being interviewed sure made me feel guilty for wanting a fancy drink, and I don't even DRINK fancy drinks.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:40 PM on May 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:40 PM on May 19, 2021 [1 favorite]
My read on stressed baristas is that they're worked pretty hard already and a 6-minute-prep items in a sea of 2-minute-prep items probably throws things off. Also, per the comment somewhere, the transition from hot to cold drinks doesn't fit with how many stores are laid out in terms of prep space. And I suspect that app-based ordering has made rush times even more busy than they were before. In ye olden days of 2018 if you walked into starbucks there's be a line which served to set wait time expectations pretty clearly. Today walk into a starbucks at 8:30 AM and you're the only customer in the store and there's probably 30 orders being made.
posted by GuyZero at 3:02 PM on May 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 3:02 PM on May 19, 2021 [3 favorites]
I do think if Starbucks workers launched some sort of mass “stop complicating our drinks!” campaign that would change the calculus here. But they haven’t, and this article doesn’t make it sound like they’re going to.
That's more a problem with the article than anything else for framing the story as it does. Starbucks isn't going to stop "complicated" drinks because that's what they are now, a cold drink franchise with coffee as a major secondary element. While they certainly don't want all customers to order drinks with as many ingredients as the guy in the article because they are more time consuming, the fancy ass cold drinks are what they use to differ themselves from the hordes and hordes of other coffeeshops nearby. In my moderate sized college town, the Starbucks in our four block by six block downtown area had six other coffeeshops, two conveniences stores that had a variety of to-go coffees, and five or six other places that were restaurant/coffeeshops all within a few block radius.
Starbucks coffee tastes different than that of other coffeeshops, which helps create repeat business once people grow use to their brand flavor profiles, and they, like a bunch of other coffee pagodas do a ton of drive through business and have their to-go stands in grocery stores and the like, so quick is a big concern, which is why they want people to use the app instead of waiting to order in line. But talking about Starbucks as if the traditional coffee drinker should have preference just doesn't fit their sales that much any more. The article mentions they now sell more cold drinks than hot, and their variety of offerings in that area are what the small coffeeshops can't compete with, so complaining about making "fancy drinks" is basically complaining about their business model, would be like someone at REI being annoyed people are bothering them with questions about camping gear.
The barista in the article seemed like he just wanted to show off a particularly complex order and hyperbolize the difficulty for the funny of it being an extreme example more than anything else, and while I'm sure really complicated drinks can be annoying as fuck when you're busy, there's a lot of annoyances in any public facing business and the employees are frequently overworked and underpaid. Starbucks is better than many low wage work places for benefits and pay and that comes from being a busier than many other workplaces. There's plenty to complain about in working public facing low wage jobs, but doing the work that the business specializes in isn't really one of them.
posted by gusottertrout at 3:15 PM on May 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
That's more a problem with the article than anything else for framing the story as it does. Starbucks isn't going to stop "complicated" drinks because that's what they are now, a cold drink franchise with coffee as a major secondary element. While they certainly don't want all customers to order drinks with as many ingredients as the guy in the article because they are more time consuming, the fancy ass cold drinks are what they use to differ themselves from the hordes and hordes of other coffeeshops nearby. In my moderate sized college town, the Starbucks in our four block by six block downtown area had six other coffeeshops, two conveniences stores that had a variety of to-go coffees, and five or six other places that were restaurant/coffeeshops all within a few block radius.
Starbucks coffee tastes different than that of other coffeeshops, which helps create repeat business once people grow use to their brand flavor profiles, and they, like a bunch of other coffee pagodas do a ton of drive through business and have their to-go stands in grocery stores and the like, so quick is a big concern, which is why they want people to use the app instead of waiting to order in line. But talking about Starbucks as if the traditional coffee drinker should have preference just doesn't fit their sales that much any more. The article mentions they now sell more cold drinks than hot, and their variety of offerings in that area are what the small coffeeshops can't compete with, so complaining about making "fancy drinks" is basically complaining about their business model, would be like someone at REI being annoyed people are bothering them with questions about camping gear.
The barista in the article seemed like he just wanted to show off a particularly complex order and hyperbolize the difficulty for the funny of it being an extreme example more than anything else, and while I'm sure really complicated drinks can be annoying as fuck when you're busy, there's a lot of annoyances in any public facing business and the employees are frequently overworked and underpaid. Starbucks is better than many low wage work places for benefits and pay and that comes from being a busier than many other workplaces. There's plenty to complain about in working public facing low wage jobs, but doing the work that the business specializes in isn't really one of them.
posted by gusottertrout at 3:15 PM on May 19, 2021 [6 favorites]
I came to this discussion late and found it very edifying.
posted by y2karl at 9:21 AM on June 2, 2021
posted by y2karl at 9:21 AM on June 2, 2021
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posted by NoxAeternum at 6:14 PM on May 15, 2021 [61 favorites]