"Putting a cruelly treated cartoon everywoman in context"
July 7, 2021 6:35 AM Subscribe
Jamie Loftus (noted podcaster on Metafilter) is doing a summer podcast deep dive of the comic Cathy and its social context.
Jamie talks to, among others, readers, feminists, cartoonists, and Cathy Guisewite herself. There's also a full cast of players to re-enact the strips in audio form.
As someone who was a young adult as the strip was ending and skimmed it on Sundays, I was guilty of assuming it was shallow and all about weight loss and desperate dating. Even in the first three episodes, I've learned enough to make me rethink those judgments and want to re-read it.
Cathy controversy previously on Metafilter.
Jamie talks to, among others, readers, feminists, cartoonists, and Cathy Guisewite herself. There's also a full cast of players to re-enact the strips in audio form.
As someone who was a young adult as the strip was ending and skimmed it on Sundays, I was guilty of assuming it was shallow and all about weight loss and desperate dating. Even in the first three episodes, I've learned enough to make me rethink those judgments and want to re-read it.
Cathy controversy previously on Metafilter.
Two strips spoke to me. (From memory for both)
One has Cathy taking on several co-worker's work for their vacations. The thought balloon says "Five minutes of feeling omnipotent in exchange for weeks of misery."
The other has Cathy thinking, "For one afternoon, your body is perfect. Breasts haven't fallen, hips have achieved maturity. Then you get pregnant." My reaction was "This culture does not deserve to survive if reproducing is considered to be such a cost".
I definitely don't have the idiom of the strip right. I serious doubt Guisewite would have used "omnipotent".
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:31 AM on July 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
One has Cathy taking on several co-worker's work for their vacations. The thought balloon says "Five minutes of feeling omnipotent in exchange for weeks of misery."
The other has Cathy thinking, "For one afternoon, your body is perfect. Breasts haven't fallen, hips have achieved maturity. Then you get pregnant." My reaction was "This culture does not deserve to survive if reproducing is considered to be such a cost".
I definitely don't have the idiom of the strip right. I serious doubt Guisewite would have used "omnipotent".
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 7:31 AM on July 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
I have always thought Cathy was unfairly derided. Sure, it could be repetitive, but at its best, it could skewer the excesses and absurdities of yuppie/boomer culture as effectively as I've ever seen it done.
posted by orange swan at 8:02 AM on July 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 8:02 AM on July 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
Jamie Loftus is a delight.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:03 AM on July 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:03 AM on July 7, 2021 [4 favorites]
Elsewhere in Cathy artistic commentary:
Sarah Burns’ reimagining of Judith Beheading Holofernes.
posted by zamboni at 8:19 AM on July 7, 2021 [21 favorites]
Sarah Burns’ reimagining of Judith Beheading Holofernes.
posted by zamboni at 8:19 AM on July 7, 2021 [21 favorites]
Obligatory: Ack!
posted by deadaluspark at 9:33 AM on July 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by deadaluspark at 9:33 AM on July 7, 2021 [9 favorites]
Her last podcast, "Lolita Podcast" was a deep dive on Lolita and how severely the character has been misunderstood in popular culture.
Thank you for noting that - I read Lolita for the first time last year, and it was radically different from what I expected it to be and I'd like to hear someone unpack that a bit.
posted by LionIndex at 9:52 AM on July 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
Thank you for noting that - I read Lolita for the first time last year, and it was radically different from what I expected it to be and I'd like to hear someone unpack that a bit.
posted by LionIndex at 9:52 AM on July 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
Sarah Burns’ reimagining of Judith Beheading Holofernes is magical. But who is the lady behind Cathy? I am not up on my comic strips apparently.
posted by selfmedicating at 9:59 AM on July 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by selfmedicating at 9:59 AM on July 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sarah Burns’ reimagining of Judith Beheading Holofernes is magical. But who is the lady behind Cathy? I am not up on my comic strips apparently.
That's Alice, from Dilbert. No, I'm not another Scott Adams sockpuppet, I had to google her name.
Cathy beheading Dilbert might be everything I ever wanted out of the modern era.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:01 AM on July 7, 2021 [14 favorites]
That's Alice, from Dilbert. No, I'm not another Scott Adams sockpuppet, I had to google her name.
Cathy beheading Dilbert might be everything I ever wanted out of the modern era.
posted by deadaluspark at 10:01 AM on July 7, 2021 [14 favorites]
Referring to the sequential segments of this podcast as "Aackts" is brilliant.
Someone should do a mashup of Cathy and Mars Attacks!
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 11:30 AM on July 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
Someone should do a mashup of Cathy and Mars Attacks!
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 11:30 AM on July 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
Loftus has a real gift at convincing me to care about things I've always ignored. The podcast is great. I'm still not convinced the comic is interesting. But, the existence of the comic is interesting.
posted by eotvos at 12:33 PM on July 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by eotvos at 12:33 PM on July 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
Jamie Loftus could do a podcast about the gum stuck to the underside of a table at a McDonald's and I'd be on board. Not to say that Cathy is a bad comic, just, agreement with eotvos. I never found the comics without whimsy to be very entertaining. Far Side, Calvin and Hobbs, yes - Cathy, Dilbert, no.
posted by snerson at 2:05 PM on July 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by snerson at 2:05 PM on July 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
I definitely don't have the idiom of the strip right. I serious doubt Guisewite would have used "omnipotent".
There was that storyline, I think about 1981, where God sent a plague of frogs because Irving wouldn't propose again.
posted by thelonius at 3:22 PM on July 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
There was that storyline, I think about 1981, where God sent a plague of frogs because Irving wouldn't propose again.
posted by thelonius at 3:22 PM on July 7, 2021 [1 favorite]
Any particular reason the website only seems to want to let me listen to Part 2?
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:54 PM on July 7, 2021
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:54 PM on July 7, 2021
I tried reading Lolita so I could listen to Jamie's podcast. I'm a big Jamie fan. I couldn't finish it though, it just made me feel murderish. If I met Humbert, I think I might kill him. It is a good book though, the writing is fantastic.
I haven't read Cathy because it's rubbish. It's been decades since I've seen the strip, but I remember the overall punchline was 'because she's a woman, geddit?'
Do I need to read these things to enjoy the podcast?
posted by adept256 at 7:14 PM on July 7, 2021
I haven't read Cathy because it's rubbish. It's been decades since I've seen the strip, but I remember the overall punchline was 'because she's a woman, geddit?'
Do I need to read these things to enjoy the podcast?
posted by adept256 at 7:14 PM on July 7, 2021
If I may, the problem with Cathy isn't Cathy, it's that prior to things like C&H, The Far Side, The Sopranos, it was expected that everyone would ride their ideas all the way into the ground and down to the center of the earth.
posted by wotsac at 8:04 PM on July 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by wotsac at 8:04 PM on July 7, 2021 [5 favorites]
Aackt 1: Cathy Comics, Revisited was EXACTLY what I wanted that episode to be.
I was a devoted comics page reader for decades, and Cathy was always there, and if you read a strip like that every day, there are lengthy storylines that are playing out. I mean, it's not Mary Worth or Prince Valiant, but they're there. And that first episode is a full summary of the full run of the comics. It was amazing to get to periods I have such clear memories of, and to get the grand sweep for all the characters is somehow fulfilling to me.
Worth the price of admission right there. I might even listen to some more! Thanks for posting!
posted by hippybear at 9:27 PM on July 7, 2021 [7 favorites]
I was a devoted comics page reader for decades, and Cathy was always there, and if you read a strip like that every day, there are lengthy storylines that are playing out. I mean, it's not Mary Worth or Prince Valiant, but they're there. And that first episode is a full summary of the full run of the comics. It was amazing to get to periods I have such clear memories of, and to get the grand sweep for all the characters is somehow fulfilling to me.
Worth the price of admission right there. I might even listen to some more! Thanks for posting!
posted by hippybear at 9:27 PM on July 7, 2021 [7 favorites]
Cathy was the first comic strip that ever made me feel represented or recognized. Finally a comic strip that wasn't about children, witches etc, politics or parenting a family. Finally a strip that showed my day to day struggles with things like makeup, hair dryers and that friend Andrea that you can never measure up to. It was a GOOD thing, and long overdue.
posted by serena15221 at 10:04 PM on July 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by serena15221 at 10:04 PM on July 7, 2021 [6 favorites]
I’m a 50-year-old spinster and I keep finding myself saying, “Ack!” in my mind, following it with “don’t be Cathy!”
Up until just now I’ve been able to restrain myself from typing it.
posted by bendy at 11:33 PM on July 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
Up until just now I’ve been able to restrain myself from typing it.
posted by bendy at 11:33 PM on July 7, 2021 [3 favorites]
Cathy had a boss (Mr. Pinkley, if I remember correctly) who invited himself into her apartment when he gave her a ride home from work.
Cathy got sick and asked a work pal to use the fax (then the au courant technology) to send her soup because she had no cold meds in the house. Because that is a single person's reality.
Thank you, hippybear and serena15221, for recognizing that strips that deal with the quotidian have value and meaning and story arcs worth following, even if they're not the Proust of the comics page
I have a couple of collections of Cathy, dating from the mid-'80s, and I'm going to have to listen to Jamie Loftus' podcast.
posted by virago at 5:58 AM on July 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
Cathy got sick and asked a work pal to use the fax (then the au courant technology) to send her soup because she had no cold meds in the house. Because that is a single person's reality.
Thank you, hippybear and serena15221, for recognizing that strips that deal with the quotidian have value and meaning and story arcs worth following, even if they're not the Proust of the comics page
I have a couple of collections of Cathy, dating from the mid-'80s, and I'm going to have to listen to Jamie Loftus' podcast.
posted by virago at 5:58 AM on July 8, 2021 [5 favorites]
I can't see "Ack" in my head and not think Bill the Cat
and I am not EVEN going to pretend this little boy had a fucking clue about the value of the Cathy strip back in the day.. I think I'm a prime target for the podcast, thank you so much for sharing!
posted by elkevelvet at 7:53 AM on July 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
and I am not EVEN going to pretend this little boy had a fucking clue about the value of the Cathy strip back in the day.. I think I'm a prime target for the podcast, thank you so much for sharing!
posted by elkevelvet at 7:53 AM on July 8, 2021 [4 favorites]
Sorry for the double post, but I have to say this before the rest of my day swallows me up:
Cathy Guisewite is not a great comic artist, but in Cathy, she wrote about shit that is real.
In this strip? Yes. The story line I mentioned in my earlier comment, with Cathy's boss, includes his making sexual advances toward her (as suggested but not illustrated, obviously) and her hitting him and knocking him out cold.
While he's unconscious, Cathy wonders whether this incident will be the impetus for her being fired or whether her supervisor will review his personal priorities and renew his commitment to his family.
I absolutely am not kidding.
I'm not saying that everybody has to like Cathy. And the truth is that it is not immortal; it was originally published on newsprint, after all.
But the level of condescension expressed toward Cathy in this discussion is staggering, and I wonder why that is.
posted by virago at 7:58 AM on July 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Cathy Guisewite is not a great comic artist, but in Cathy, she wrote about shit that is real.
In this strip? Yes. The story line I mentioned in my earlier comment, with Cathy's boss, includes his making sexual advances toward her (as suggested but not illustrated, obviously) and her hitting him and knocking him out cold.
While he's unconscious, Cathy wonders whether this incident will be the impetus for her being fired or whether her supervisor will review his personal priorities and renew his commitment to his family.
I absolutely am not kidding.
I'm not saying that everybody has to like Cathy. And the truth is that it is not immortal; it was originally published on newsprint, after all.
But the level of condescension expressed toward Cathy in this discussion is staggering, and I wonder why that is.
posted by virago at 7:58 AM on July 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Regarding the earlier comments, I heartily recommend the Lolita podcast. The detail of recent film and television versions go on for a bit longer than my natural patience for listening to actors normally allows, but it's very well written and produced. The disconnect between the actual novel and everyone who has ever referenced the name is amazing. I remember the blurb on the back of my paperback copy cheering it as a love story. It seemed pretty weird even when I was a 15 year old boy desperate for explicit literature.
posted by eotvos at 8:09 AM on July 8, 2021
posted by eotvos at 8:09 AM on July 8, 2021
But the level of condescension expressed toward Cathy in this discussion is staggering, and I wonder why that is.
Citations?
posted by elkevelvet at 9:06 AM on July 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
Citations?
posted by elkevelvet at 9:06 AM on July 8, 2021 [1 favorite]
elkevelvet, I wasn't responding to your comment. I was going to say as much in my comment, and now I wish I had.
Citations?
OK, I was not trying to start a squabble, but:
I'm still not convinced the comic is interesting. But the existence of the comic is interesting.
And
I haven't read Cathy because it's rubbish. It's been decades since I've seen the strip, but I remember the overall punchline was 'Because she's a woman, geddit?' Do I need to read these things to enjoy the podcast?
I've seen a lot of long discussions on this site of other artifacts of popular culture, in which they were assumed to be worth time, money, and brain cells, not above criticism but not automatically to be dismissed, either.
I wanted to push back on the idea that Cathy was nothing more than frizzy hair and "Ack!" and that everything that happened in the column was a trivial pursuit.
I hope this sheds some light on my thinking.
If it doesn't, I'll be glad to continue the discussion, but I have to push pause because Thursdays are my hell day and I must do a lot of heavy lifting before the end of the day.
posted by virago at 9:35 AM on July 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
Citations?
OK, I was not trying to start a squabble, but:
I'm still not convinced the comic is interesting. But the existence of the comic is interesting.
And
I haven't read Cathy because it's rubbish. It's been decades since I've seen the strip, but I remember the overall punchline was 'Because she's a woman, geddit?' Do I need to read these things to enjoy the podcast?
I've seen a lot of long discussions on this site of other artifacts of popular culture, in which they were assumed to be worth time, money, and brain cells, not above criticism but not automatically to be dismissed, either.
I wanted to push back on the idea that Cathy was nothing more than frizzy hair and "Ack!" and that everything that happened in the column was a trivial pursuit.
I hope this sheds some light on my thinking.
If it doesn't, I'll be glad to continue the discussion, but I have to push pause because Thursdays are my hell day and I must do a lot of heavy lifting before the end of the day.
posted by virago at 9:35 AM on July 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
The podcast does an excellent job of showing how the comic engaged with the ongoing evolution of 2nd and then 3rd wave feminism, even if the character was an imperfect avatar for feminist ideals of either wave. (You know, the way actual women are imperfect avatars for feminist ideals. Or is that just me? I'm always afraid that maybe it's just me...)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 4:10 PM on July 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 4:10 PM on July 8, 2021 [8 favorites]
FWIW breezing through that earlier MeFi thread on Cathy I am struck by how many people hated the strip because it seemed like Cathy couldn't win, would always struggle, etc. and I am like, what are your lives even LIKE? Because no, I will never like how I look; I will probably always struggle with trying to be in a relationship that works for me without feeling like a betrayal of myself. I will absolutely never achieve "financial success." I definitely watch my friends as they negotiate and compromise and make choices that I can't understand or agree with but have to respect as their right to make.
It's not a funny strip. But I'm not even sure it's supposed to be! I AM Cathy. If I hate the comic it's just because of self-loathing.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 4:20 PM on July 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
It's not a funny strip. But I'm not even sure it's supposed to be! I AM Cathy. If I hate the comic it's just because of self-loathing.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 4:20 PM on July 8, 2021 [10 favorites]
Well, thanks to this post, I listened to The Lolita Podcast. That was... a... journey.
I'm still listening to Aack Cast. It's been fun so far. I'm curious to see how this all untangles, given what I have learned this podcaster does by listening to other examples of their work.
posted by hippybear at 9:11 PM on July 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm still listening to Aack Cast. It's been fun so far. I'm curious to see how this all untangles, given what I have learned this podcaster does by listening to other examples of their work.
posted by hippybear at 9:11 PM on July 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
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posted by little onion at 6:54 AM on July 7, 2021 [4 favorites]