41 million borrowers, $5 billion per month
December 22, 2021 10:54 AM Subscribe
Biden-Harris Administration Extends Student Loan Pause To May 1, 2022
Here are the details, what borrowers should know (Forbes), what you need to know (CBS), and a MarketWatch in a pear tree. This represents a change from what the White House was saying as recently as last week. Biden made a campaign promise to forgive at least $10,000 in student loan debt per borrower.
Here are the details, what borrowers should know (Forbes), what you need to know (CBS), and a MarketWatch in a pear tree. This represents a change from what the White House was saying as recently as last week. Biden made a campaign promise to forgive at least $10,000 in student loan debt per borrower.
Yesssssssssss.
posted by Jess the Mess at 10:59 AM on December 22, 2021
posted by Jess the Mess at 10:59 AM on December 22, 2021
This is the smallest possible increment of doing something in the general vicinity the right thing. So, yay?
posted by feckless at 11:04 AM on December 22, 2021 [28 favorites]
posted by feckless at 11:04 AM on December 22, 2021 [28 favorites]
I’d like to see them do more, but I imagine several more more months of not having to pay is a huge deal for a lot of people so, yeah, yay.
posted by orange ball at 11:10 AM on December 22, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by orange ball at 11:10 AM on December 22, 2021 [13 favorites]
I'm glad that people do not have to pay for a few months. I would be gladder if actual loan forgiveness happened for people, though.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:13 AM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:13 AM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
From what I'm seeing, the administration has so far canceled $12.7 billion of loans for students who meet various specific hardship criteria. And it appears that they are continuing to look at categories of borrowers who might merit targeted relief.
Biden likely doesn't have the legal authority to unilaterally cancel all student loan debt, a policy which is, in any case, broadly unpopular with the public. Congress could do it, but doesn't appear to have the appetite for enacting something that controversial.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:14 AM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
Biden likely doesn't have the legal authority to unilaterally cancel all student loan debt, a policy which is, in any case, broadly unpopular with the public. Congress could do it, but doesn't appear to have the appetite for enacting something that controversial.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:14 AM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
It's not enough but it's a start, and I think this (as well as the administration sending out tests after the Press Secretary made fun of the idea) demonstrates how important it is to put pressure on elected officials.
posted by an octopus IRL at 11:14 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by an octopus IRL at 11:14 AM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
If Biden allows the bills to resume, every Republican in 2024 is going to be screaming about how he ended the pause and made people start handing their hard-earned money over to the government. He knows this, right?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:15 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:15 AM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
Biden likely doesn't have the legal authority to unilaterally cancel all student loan debt, a policy which is, in any case, broadly unpopular with the public.
There are exactly zero people who will not turn out to vote for the Dems because they cancelled student loans, and a fuck ton of people who would turn out to vote for the Dems if they did cancel student loans.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:20 AM on December 22, 2021 [32 favorites]
There are exactly zero people who will not turn out to vote for the Dems because they cancelled student loans, and a fuck ton of people who would turn out to vote for the Dems if they did cancel student loans.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:20 AM on December 22, 2021 [32 favorites]
Black Wealth Could Get 40% Boost if Biden Heeds Calls to Cancel Student Debt
A June report from the Roosevelt Institute, a liberal think tank, found that erasing $50,000 in student loans per person would immediately increase Black wealth by 40%. The analysis found that Black borrowers in the bottom 10% of net worth would have around $5,000 more forgiven than their White counterparts.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:28 AM on December 22, 2021 [26 favorites]
Forgiving $50,000 in student loans “would provide more benefits to those with fewer economic resources and could play a critical role in addressing the racial wealth gap and building the Black middle class,” the Roosevelt Institute wrote in its brief. “The reason for this progressivity is simple: People from wealthy backgrounds (and their parents) rarely use student loans to pay for college.”
President Joe Biden campaigned on forgiving up to $10,000 in undergraduate loans per borrower. Under his plan, students who attended public colleges or historically Black private colleges would qualify for additional forgiveness if their families make less than $125,000. Earlier this year, Biden resisted calls from congressional Democrats to forgive $50,000, and has yet to enact his plan.
I don't have a personal stake in this so I don't follow it as closely as some issues, but it seems like the nuance that gets trampled on the way to beloved "Democrats in disarray" headlines is that rather than do this with an executive order in a way that will be trivially and immediately overturned by the next Republican, it's being done in other more administrative law/rulemaking sorts ways that are less subject to those particular whims. I don't blame people with big loans who are looking for relief and getting anxious about it but the media's desire to frame this as Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football seems even more exhausting than usual.
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:34 AM on December 22, 2021 [13 favorites]
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:34 AM on December 22, 2021 [13 favorites]
unilaterally cancel all student loan debt, a policy which is, in any case, broadly unpopular with the public
This poll is a year old at this point, but it asks that specific question, and finds that 41% support it compared to 53% who don't, with the strongest support coming from Black people and people under 45.
By comparison, Biden's campaign promise to forgive up to $50,000 for people who make less than $125,000/year has 53% support and 40% disapproval.
posted by box at 11:37 AM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
This poll is a year old at this point, but it asks that specific question, and finds that 41% support it compared to 53% who don't, with the strongest support coming from Black people and people under 45.
By comparison, Biden's campaign promise to forgive up to $50,000 for people who make less than $125,000/year has 53% support and 40% disapproval.
posted by box at 11:37 AM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
I don't have it in me to make much of a comment, having spent way too much time recently looking at the calendar and dreading when the January repayments start, but...well...yay? A minor but heartfelt yay? Yes, more should be done. Absolutely, cancel the damn things. But the fact that we're not getting hit with the CTC going away at the same time the loan payments start back, gives at least a little easier ramp back down to being broke all the time, rather than rushing right into it.
posted by mittens at 11:42 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by mittens at 11:42 AM on December 22, 2021 [8 favorites]
Biden likely doesn't have the legal authority to unilaterally cancel all student loan debt, a policy which is, in any case, broadly unpopular with the public.
New Poll Data Puts Biden At Odds with Most Americans on Student Loan Forgiveness
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:44 AM on December 22, 2021 [14 favorites]
New Poll Data Puts Biden At Odds with Most Americans on Student Loan Forgiveness
A recent Grinnell College National Poll, conducted by Selzer & Co., found broad support for cancelling student loan debt. Over 66 percent of Americans favored some form of loan forgiveness, either by forgiving loans for everyone with student debt (27 percent) or for those in need (39 percent).Americans Overwhelmingly Support Student Debt Reform
While majorities of people at every income level support loan forgiveness, opposition to it is concentrated among wealthier Americans. Just 12 percent of those who make $25,000 or under oppose loan forgiveness, compared to 44 percent of those making over $100,000 per year.
Interestingly, there is no difference in support for loan forgiveness by educational attainment. Those with a high school education are just as likely to support forgiving loans as those with a college education.
In short, there’s just no evidence in our polling that Biden’s class-based view of loan forgiveness is shared by those whose interests he is seeking to protect.
Although Americans rank borrowers as having the primary responsibility for fixing the student loan debt crisis, they also support the government passing a range of potential reforms.Poll: 52% of Respondents in Favor of Blanket Student Loan Forgiveness
Frequently recommended solutions, such as forgiveness of a flat amount of student debt (64%) and forgiveness of all student loan debt (55%), are supported by more than half the country. Additionally, nearly two-thirds of Americans (63%) support forgiveness of all student loan debt for those working in certain industries like health care, science & technology, or public service.
Moreover, Americans show very strong support for other potential solutions including lower interest rates on students that attend public universities (83%), automatic student loan forbearance if someone loses employment (72%), and updating bankruptcy laws to get rid of student debt (66%).
Americans also supported changes to the cost of a university education. Such solutions included restrictions or price controls on the cost of a university education (78%), no tuition at public colleges or universities (59%), no tuition for undergraduate schooling (56%), and no tuition for any U.S. college or university (53%).
It appears the incoming presidential administration and Congress may have more options to work with than they realize.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 11:44 AM on December 22, 2021 [14 favorites]
By comparison, Biden's campaign promise to forgive up to $50,000 for people who make less than $125,000/year has 53% support and 40% disapproval.
Biden only promised $10k, Warren was the one who proposed $50k. But he promised. You know what's really unpopular? Like, people-stop-turning-out-for-your-party-for-decades unpopular? Promising people money and then not giving it to them.
posted by agentofselection at 11:45 AM on December 22, 2021 [36 favorites]
Biden only promised $10k, Warren was the one who proposed $50k. But he promised. You know what's really unpopular? Like, people-stop-turning-out-for-your-party-for-decades unpopular? Promising people money and then not giving it to them.
posted by agentofselection at 11:45 AM on December 22, 2021 [36 favorites]
Campaign Biden also said "I’m going to eliminate your student debt if you come from a family [making less] than $125,000 and went to a public university."
posted by box at 11:58 AM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by box at 11:58 AM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
From what I'm seeing, the administration has so far canceled $12.7 billion of loans for students who meet various specific hardship criteria. And it appears that they are continuing to look at categories of borrowers who might merit targeted relief.
One year in, this does seem like real progress, and I’ll celebrate it. And the extension of the Pause on repayment for the rest of folks is definitely a positive. But I get that it’s not where a lot of folks want us to be right now. My own student loan days are far behind me, but I’d still like to see a $10k loan jubilee/amnesty.
I wonder how much of the last six months of political capital has been prioritized on trying to wangle the BBB plan through, with 50 Republicans + Manchin & Sinema dragging it down, and now ultimately torpedoing it for this year.
We just need to elect more Progressives. Of course, without new voting rights legislation, that’s going to become much harder in the near future.
posted by darkstar at 12:08 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
One year in, this does seem like real progress, and I’ll celebrate it. And the extension of the Pause on repayment for the rest of folks is definitely a positive. But I get that it’s not where a lot of folks want us to be right now. My own student loan days are far behind me, but I’d still like to see a $10k loan jubilee/amnesty.
I wonder how much of the last six months of political capital has been prioritized on trying to wangle the BBB plan through, with 50 Republicans + Manchin & Sinema dragging it down, and now ultimately torpedoing it for this year.
We just need to elect more Progressives. Of course, without new voting rights legislation, that’s going to become much harder in the near future.
posted by darkstar at 12:08 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm a bit unclear about how Biden is supposedly able to forgive student loans unilaterally. Like, the mechanics of that just don't seem to be consistent with what can be done under an Executive Order. First of all, I don't think there's anything he can do about privately-held student loans, which are some of the most exploitative and predatory loans around.
But even with government-backed loans, what could he do, just order the Department of Education to stop trying to recoup them? And then... do what with the $1.6T they'd have sitting on their books? It'd blow up the budget, unless you're also a fan of the hypothetical $10 Trillion Coin gambit, and I'm not at all convinced that would get past the Supreme Court unscathed—nor am I really sure we'd want it to, since it would provide an obvious route towards Trump II using a similar method to pay for landmines and sharks-with-lasers on the US/Mexico border or whatever.
In the long term, I maintain that the best and most viable solution is to eliminate the exemption that lets student loans be nondischargeable in bankruptcy. That would at least let people who are irretrievably underwater on their loans get them discharged through bankruptcy proceedings and have a clean start, and it would provide an immediate and sharp correction to the overabundance of loans for programs that typically don't lead to repayable debts.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:15 PM on December 22, 2021 [10 favorites]
But even with government-backed loans, what could he do, just order the Department of Education to stop trying to recoup them? And then... do what with the $1.6T they'd have sitting on their books? It'd blow up the budget, unless you're also a fan of the hypothetical $10 Trillion Coin gambit, and I'm not at all convinced that would get past the Supreme Court unscathed—nor am I really sure we'd want it to, since it would provide an obvious route towards Trump II using a similar method to pay for landmines and sharks-with-lasers on the US/Mexico border or whatever.
In the long term, I maintain that the best and most viable solution is to eliminate the exemption that lets student loans be nondischargeable in bankruptcy. That would at least let people who are irretrievably underwater on their loans get them discharged through bankruptcy proceedings and have a clean start, and it would provide an immediate and sharp correction to the overabundance of loans for programs that typically don't lead to repayable debts.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:15 PM on December 22, 2021 [10 favorites]
What a no-brainer move this was. That it took a backlash to get here is such an indictment of the stupidity of Biden and the people he's surrounding himself with. We really are dealing with top-level Democrats who have 1) no sense of urgency about fixing the urgent problems facing U.S. citizens, and 2) no empathy for the folks at or near the bottom of the economy.
If he doesn't want to honor his forgiveness promise, doing something about the crushing interest rates that have folks paying triple the original amount they owed would be nice.
posted by mediareport at 12:18 PM on December 22, 2021 [15 favorites]
If he doesn't want to honor his forgiveness promise, doing something about the crushing interest rates that have folks paying triple the original amount they owed would be nice.
posted by mediareport at 12:18 PM on December 22, 2021 [15 favorites]
Oh, and 3) not even a basic understanding about what it takes to win elections.
posted by mediareport at 12:19 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 12:19 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
And then... do what with the $1.6T they'd have sitting on their books? It'd blow up the budget, unless you're also a fan of the hypothetical $10 Trillion Coin gambit, and I'm not at all convinced that would get past the Supreme Court unscathed—nor am I really sure we'd want it to, since it would provide an obvious route towards Trump II using a similar method to pay for landmines and sharks-with-lasers on the US/Mexico border or whatever.
Everyone needs to stop with this insanity. The probability of Trump II doing XYZ crazy thing is exactly the same whether or not Biden uses an EO to cancel student loans.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:24 PM on December 22, 2021 [23 favorites]
Everyone needs to stop with this insanity. The probability of Trump II doing XYZ crazy thing is exactly the same whether or not Biden uses an EO to cancel student loans.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:24 PM on December 22, 2021 [23 favorites]
Oh, and 3) not even a basic understanding about what it takes to win elections.
Which top-level Democrats are you talking about? Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi? I'm not going to try to count up how many years of electoral office they've collectively won, but it's an awful lot.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:36 PM on December 22, 2021
Which top-level Democrats are you talking about? Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi? I'm not going to try to count up how many years of electoral office they've collectively won, but it's an awful lot.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:36 PM on December 22, 2021
the stupidity of Biden and the people he's surrounding himself with
Stupid is not the word I would use to describe a group of people who are making progress putting out the dumpster fire of Trump, which is a fire that perpetually feeds itself.
Tone-deaf is probably more accurate. The problem with most people in congress right now is that they do not on any level understand or represent their constituents, and that is 100% because of wealth.
Why are we even questioning the motivation of rich people. Their prime directive is to protect the hoard. The rich are just as happy under fascism.
And here we all are again fighting over scraps when billionaires are taking tax-free sunday drives in space and military contractors are pillaging our treasury.
posted by archimago at 12:46 PM on December 22, 2021 [12 favorites]
Stupid is not the word I would use to describe a group of people who are making progress putting out the dumpster fire of Trump, which is a fire that perpetually feeds itself.
Tone-deaf is probably more accurate. The problem with most people in congress right now is that they do not on any level understand or represent their constituents, and that is 100% because of wealth.
Why are we even questioning the motivation of rich people. Their prime directive is to protect the hoard. The rich are just as happy under fascism.
And here we all are again fighting over scraps when billionaires are taking tax-free sunday drives in space and military contractors are pillaging our treasury.
posted by archimago at 12:46 PM on December 22, 2021 [12 favorites]
Which top-level Democrats are you talking about? Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi? I'm not going to try to count up how many years of electoral office they've collectively won, but it's an awful lot.
Each of them is very good at defending their own positions, but during their tenure as party leadership the party has lost something like a thousand state-level seats and repeatedly lost presidential elections despite winning the popular vote. And the big wins they've presided over for the party- the waves of 2008, 2018, and 2020- have all been responses to the horror of Republican governance. A "leader" who can only win when the opposition hands them an easy victory is not a leader; they're just the people who happened to be behind the wheel when the light turned green. We have to stop regarding personal tenure as a qualification for leadership.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:47 PM on December 22, 2021 [17 favorites]
Each of them is very good at defending their own positions, but during their tenure as party leadership the party has lost something like a thousand state-level seats and repeatedly lost presidential elections despite winning the popular vote. And the big wins they've presided over for the party- the waves of 2008, 2018, and 2020- have all been responses to the horror of Republican governance. A "leader" who can only win when the opposition hands them an easy victory is not a leader; they're just the people who happened to be behind the wheel when the light turned green. We have to stop regarding personal tenure as a qualification for leadership.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:47 PM on December 22, 2021 [17 favorites]
Which top-level Democrats are you talking about? Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi? I'm not going to try to count up how many years of electoral office they've collectively won, but it's an awful lot.
Sure, but not one of the people you mentioned is in any danger of being ousted by a Republican in November of 2022. Doesn’t really apply to a huge chunk of the US Congress, unfortunately.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:50 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sure, but not one of the people you mentioned is in any danger of being ousted by a Republican in November of 2022. Doesn’t really apply to a huge chunk of the US Congress, unfortunately.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:50 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is the smallest possible increment of doing something in the general vicinity the right thing.
Your 2021 Democratic Party, everyone!
posted by Mayor West at 12:57 PM on December 22, 2021 [14 favorites]
Your 2021 Democratic Party, everyone!
posted by Mayor West at 12:57 PM on December 22, 2021 [14 favorites]
I'm very much in favor of student loan debt relief, and this can-kicking routine is going to celebrate its 2nd birthday during the new extension, which is hilarious.
A Thing that concerns me is what happens on the other side of a write-down in existing debt. If we cancel some or all of the existing debt, it's just going to pile up again for a new group of young people unless the underlying system changes. As it is, we have adjuncts throughout the system getting screwed, prices rising faster than inflation for almost 50 years now, and wages not keeping up with the cost to service all that debt. Parents are older these days, which means this is a retirement issue too for Mom and Dad.
Sen. Warren's plan from her 2020 presidential campaign is nearly silent on the matter of private nonprofit colleges, which I suspect are generating a ton of the total debt burden. The Harvards of the world will do just fine regardless of what happens next. But any meaningful plan to revise the structure probably means dealing a killing blow to a bunch of mid-tier private schools. Maybe that's the right answer! We just need to recognize that it will have tons of knock-on effects in smaller towns and cities.
My kids are college age now. We're muddling through all of this, and I'm fine to see it to the end without policy relief for us specifically. I just want to hear some ideas on how to untangle ourselves from this mess as a country.
posted by sockshaveholes at 12:59 PM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
A Thing that concerns me is what happens on the other side of a write-down in existing debt. If we cancel some or all of the existing debt, it's just going to pile up again for a new group of young people unless the underlying system changes. As it is, we have adjuncts throughout the system getting screwed, prices rising faster than inflation for almost 50 years now, and wages not keeping up with the cost to service all that debt. Parents are older these days, which means this is a retirement issue too for Mom and Dad.
Sen. Warren's plan from her 2020 presidential campaign is nearly silent on the matter of private nonprofit colleges, which I suspect are generating a ton of the total debt burden. The Harvards of the world will do just fine regardless of what happens next. But any meaningful plan to revise the structure probably means dealing a killing blow to a bunch of mid-tier private schools. Maybe that's the right answer! We just need to recognize that it will have tons of knock-on effects in smaller towns and cities.
My kids are college age now. We're muddling through all of this, and I'm fine to see it to the end without policy relief for us specifically. I just want to hear some ideas on how to untangle ourselves from this mess as a country.
posted by sockshaveholes at 12:59 PM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
Personally, I'm relieved. I am able to start making payments again if I have to, but I'm trying to buy a house (worst time ever, I know), and the $900/month I've been saving has probably been the biggest single factor in allowing me to save enough for the down payment/closing costs/etc.
Policy-wise, I've actually been working with some of the advocates who have been fighting tirelessly for cancellation and I think this is actually pretty hopeful. Biden clearly does not want to forgive all student loans but I think this decision to postpone again (after he explicitly said he would not) shows that it's getting politically more and more difficult for him to maintain this stance.
I think they also probably realized how messy it was going to be to restart student loans after 18+ months of people not paying them, and they may just not have wanted to take that political hit with BBB still grinding on. For one thing, it emerged in the last few weeks that people's child tax credit payments were at risk of being garnished if they were in default on their loans. Yeah, those same tax credits that have lifted millions of children out of poverty. Not only would this kick low-income families when they're down, but it would erase a huge portion of one of Biden's biggest (and only) policy victories to date.
I've been saying for a while that I don't know how they just turn student loan payments on again after one year, then 18 months, and now two years, of no payments. The longer it goes on, the harder it gets to start payments again, and that's a good thing.
posted by lunasol at 12:59 PM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
Policy-wise, I've actually been working with some of the advocates who have been fighting tirelessly for cancellation and I think this is actually pretty hopeful. Biden clearly does not want to forgive all student loans but I think this decision to postpone again (after he explicitly said he would not) shows that it's getting politically more and more difficult for him to maintain this stance.
I think they also probably realized how messy it was going to be to restart student loans after 18+ months of people not paying them, and they may just not have wanted to take that political hit with BBB still grinding on. For one thing, it emerged in the last few weeks that people's child tax credit payments were at risk of being garnished if they were in default on their loans. Yeah, those same tax credits that have lifted millions of children out of poverty. Not only would this kick low-income families when they're down, but it would erase a huge portion of one of Biden's biggest (and only) policy victories to date.
I've been saying for a while that I don't know how they just turn student loan payments on again after one year, then 18 months, and now two years, of no payments. The longer it goes on, the harder it gets to start payments again, and that's a good thing.
posted by lunasol at 12:59 PM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm for loan forgiveness. Like emergency healthcare expenses, and investors buying up real estate to price out first-time buyers, students loans are part of a larger strategy to destroy the American middle class.
That said, I am curious what happens if Biden nullifies debt. What about new and existing college students enrolled in school next year? Do they still need to take out loans, or do they get immediate support in the form of new financial aid? What stops schools raising tuition rates that eat the nullified loans, so that a student is back at square one with respect to new loans?
Polling aside, this seems a more complicated issue than what it appears on face value.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:03 PM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
That said, I am curious what happens if Biden nullifies debt. What about new and existing college students enrolled in school next year? Do they still need to take out loans, or do they get immediate support in the form of new financial aid? What stops schools raising tuition rates that eat the nullified loans, so that a student is back at square one with respect to new loans?
Polling aside, this seems a more complicated issue than what it appears on face value.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:03 PM on December 22, 2021 [9 favorites]
Salem Snow @Salem4Congress
PPP loans were created in 2020.
Within 1.5 years, over 80% of them have been forgiven, totaling $600+ billion.
Student loans started around 1958-1965.
60+ years later & .6% of student loan debt has been forgiven.
No one asked how we would pay for business loan forgiveness.
8:47 AM · Dec 14, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
21.7K Retweets 876 Quote Tweets 69.3K Likes
posted by Ahmad Khani at 1:24 PM on December 22, 2021 [29 favorites]
PPP loans were created in 2020.
Within 1.5 years, over 80% of them have been forgiven, totaling $600+ billion.
Student loans started around 1958-1965.
60+ years later & .6% of student loan debt has been forgiven.
No one asked how we would pay for business loan forgiveness.
8:47 AM · Dec 14, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
21.7K Retweets 876 Quote Tweets 69.3K Likes
posted by Ahmad Khani at 1:24 PM on December 22, 2021 [29 favorites]
Everything else aside, thank F. I needed this.
posted by iamkimiam at 1:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by iamkimiam at 1:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Polling aside, this seems a more complicated issue than what it appears on face value.
Ideally full loan forgiveness would be paired with a plan for free college at least at public institutions, which would immediately change the calculus for everyone at a private university (and considering my wife teaches at one, something like this could definitely kill a small college, however i think it would be a benefit overall if not for us personally). Perhaps there would be tuition reimbursement at a certain level for private schools to keep them within reach of students... I never could have afforded the school i went to without loans, and everyone told me it was"good debt", an insane notion.
Anyway, yes it's complicated and yes it will have unexpected effects on the market for universities and who knows what impact on current and future students especially if it's not paired with a bigger piece of legislation that revamps how college is paid for, but it's still a great idea that will transform the lives of millions of struggling college graduates who didn't exactly graduate into the best of times
posted by dis_integration at 1:49 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
Ideally full loan forgiveness would be paired with a plan for free college at least at public institutions, which would immediately change the calculus for everyone at a private university (and considering my wife teaches at one, something like this could definitely kill a small college, however i think it would be a benefit overall if not for us personally). Perhaps there would be tuition reimbursement at a certain level for private schools to keep them within reach of students... I never could have afforded the school i went to without loans, and everyone told me it was"good debt", an insane notion.
Anyway, yes it's complicated and yes it will have unexpected effects on the market for universities and who knows what impact on current and future students especially if it's not paired with a bigger piece of legislation that revamps how college is paid for, but it's still a great idea that will transform the lives of millions of struggling college graduates who didn't exactly graduate into the best of times
posted by dis_integration at 1:49 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
This could salvage the Dems' midterm election chances. I wonder if they are thinking about the timing and waiting to pull the trigger.
posted by fraxil at 1:54 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by fraxil at 1:54 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
PPP loans were created in 2020.
I don't own a small business, but wasn't the PPP loan program set up with loan forgiveness in mind? Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the forgiveness proposals. Obviously people graduating with 100k+ in debt is surreal, but I'd rather support something along the lines of:
1. Lend at a rate comparable to what the US govt can borrow at. My loans (paid off in full) were set at 91 day treasuries + 25bp, which is super cheap compared to what it costs the US to borrow for the standard 10 year repayment plan, but even 10y treasuries are closer to zero than the 6.8 percent fixed bullshit rate we use currently.
2. Do whatever you can to reduce the cost of schooling, so that professionals don't graduate with so much debt in the first place and we don't have to keep rolling student loan jubilees every decade. Direct funding, increase the number of schools total, outlaw admission / graduation limits, streamline credit transfer, etc. I can maybe understand the costs of malpractice insurance in teaching hospitals, but I don't understand why law school needs to cost so dang much.
3. Fix housing policies that make university town rents so damn high. State flagship schools are often in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by farmland, and yet I recall seeing the uni I worked for advise students to move to another town, and commute past a bunch of farm land every day, because rental vacancy was so low in town. And if we can fix housing policy in general, that would be great ^_^
4. End the public service degree treadmill. For whatever reason, public sectors seem to really value Masters degrees, and I'm not sure what the benefit is. It's cool to be able to do research and what not, but tying level promotions & raises to an expensive degree seems unwise and we should stop doing that. I've seen too many IT managers and CIOs with a "10 week intensive course" Master's degree...
posted by pwnguin at 2:12 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't own a small business, but wasn't the PPP loan program set up with loan forgiveness in mind? Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the forgiveness proposals. Obviously people graduating with 100k+ in debt is surreal, but I'd rather support something along the lines of:
1. Lend at a rate comparable to what the US govt can borrow at. My loans (paid off in full) were set at 91 day treasuries + 25bp, which is super cheap compared to what it costs the US to borrow for the standard 10 year repayment plan, but even 10y treasuries are closer to zero than the 6.8 percent fixed bullshit rate we use currently.
2. Do whatever you can to reduce the cost of schooling, so that professionals don't graduate with so much debt in the first place and we don't have to keep rolling student loan jubilees every decade. Direct funding, increase the number of schools total, outlaw admission / graduation limits, streamline credit transfer, etc. I can maybe understand the costs of malpractice insurance in teaching hospitals, but I don't understand why law school needs to cost so dang much.
3. Fix housing policies that make university town rents so damn high. State flagship schools are often in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by farmland, and yet I recall seeing the uni I worked for advise students to move to another town, and commute past a bunch of farm land every day, because rental vacancy was so low in town. And if we can fix housing policy in general, that would be great ^_^
4. End the public service degree treadmill. For whatever reason, public sectors seem to really value Masters degrees, and I'm not sure what the benefit is. It's cool to be able to do research and what not, but tying level promotions & raises to an expensive degree seems unwise and we should stop doing that. I've seen too many IT managers and CIOs with a "10 week intensive course" Master's degree...
posted by pwnguin at 2:12 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Overall, this policy will provide a lot of relief to a bunch of student debt holders.
It's still short of the broader plans Biden spoke to in 2020, under pressure from his left.
posted by doctornemo at 2:24 PM on December 22, 2021
It's still short of the broader plans Biden spoke to in 2020, under pressure from his left.
posted by doctornemo at 2:24 PM on December 22, 2021
Personally, this is a relief.
I'm still paying my loans (undergrad, MA, PhD). I'm helping my daughter pay for hers (undergrad). And in May my son will graduate and thus start owing his (undergrad).
Academic debt is a large fact of life in our family. It looms like the mortgage.
posted by doctornemo at 2:26 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'm still paying my loans (undergrad, MA, PhD). I'm helping my daughter pay for hers (undergrad). And in May my son will graduate and thus start owing his (undergrad).
Academic debt is a large fact of life in our family. It looms like the mortgage.
posted by doctornemo at 2:26 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Last time this came up on mefi and I and other folks asked what was to happen on an ongoing basis. What happens to the loans that are taken out the day and year after forgiveness.
I appreciate the comments in this direction that folks have made in this thread but they’re basically vapor compared to the solidity of forgiveness.
It just doesn’t add up to me. It’s almost disingenuous.
posted by Wood at 3:09 PM on December 22, 2021
I appreciate the comments in this direction that folks have made in this thread but they’re basically vapor compared to the solidity of forgiveness.
It just doesn’t add up to me. It’s almost disingenuous.
posted by Wood at 3:09 PM on December 22, 2021
I'm in favor of cancelling student loan debt, but only in the context of cancelling tuition inflation. Maybe we cancel all outstanding loan debt, and then cancel the debts of all students graduating in 2022 whose tuition was below $40,000, and cancelling the debts of all students graduating in 2023 whose tuition was below $35,000, and so on until we arrive ten years from now at a situation where every state college system has a tuition driven below $15,000 or $10,000 or else they're uncompetitive because students can't get debt cancellations (let's just call them grants) and they will attend elsewhere.
I'm an Ivy League graduate who paid off their student loan debts, and I think that wealthy families sending their kids to expensive colleges should continue to pay off student loan debts. If we focus on driving down the cost of public post-secondary education and convert from loans to grants for low-income students, we will boost educational attainment and provide a powerful incentive for states to pay for fewer football stadiums and fewer football coach salaries and more classrooms and more teacher salaries at colleges that become cheaper and cheaper to attend and more and more effective at educating our young people.
posted by Scarf Joint at 3:10 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm an Ivy League graduate who paid off their student loan debts, and I think that wealthy families sending their kids to expensive colleges should continue to pay off student loan debts. If we focus on driving down the cost of public post-secondary education and convert from loans to grants for low-income students, we will boost educational attainment and provide a powerful incentive for states to pay for fewer football stadiums and fewer football coach salaries and more classrooms and more teacher salaries at colleges that become cheaper and cheaper to attend and more and more effective at educating our young people.
posted by Scarf Joint at 3:10 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
And to the extent that expensive elite private colleges continue to educate rich kids, ok, I'm not ready to suggest the guillotine instead, but let those colleges feel a ton of policy pressure to provide very generous scholarships to poor kids so they participate, too, and don't graduate with a mountain of debt. (The Ivy League is actually already a pretty good model for this to work from.)
Let's put expensive private schools' feet on that fire instead. If a lot of them go out of business, that's fine with me. Let's tax all that money saved into public education tuition decreases instead.
posted by Scarf Joint at 3:18 PM on December 22, 2021
Let's put expensive private schools' feet on that fire instead. If a lot of them go out of business, that's fine with me. Let's tax all that money saved into public education tuition decreases instead.
posted by Scarf Joint at 3:18 PM on December 22, 2021
Let's put expensive private schools' feet on that fire instead
In America, private feet find expensive fire.
25,000$ forgiveness on SL and total forgiveness for loans prior to 1995 up 100,000$ with all interest eliminated.
Up to 10,001$ forgiveness of credit cards debt.
1000$ a month for the poor.
that's fire.
posted by clavdivs at 4:05 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
In America, private feet find expensive fire.
25,000$ forgiveness on SL and total forgiveness for loans prior to 1995 up 100,000$ with all interest eliminated.
Up to 10,001$ forgiveness of credit cards debt.
1000$ a month for the poor.
that's fire.
posted by clavdivs at 4:05 PM on December 22, 2021 [2 favorites]
Sure, that's all good as far as it goes, but all by itself, that's just incentive for expensive private colleges and student loan lenders to hike fees and lure students willing to borrow back in again.
What we need to do is nationalize college education, make sure it's excellent, and charge reasonable fees to attend.
Oh, wait, we already have public colleges? Then what we need to do is make them as excellent and cheap and capacious as possible, and tax private education (and/or parents willing to pay for it) to subsidize public education.
We don't have to burn down Harvard, but we do need to make sure that Harvard and its benefactors make University of Massachusetts cheap to free and high-quality for everyone.
posted by Scarf Joint at 4:53 PM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
What we need to do is nationalize college education, make sure it's excellent, and charge reasonable fees to attend.
Oh, wait, we already have public colleges? Then what we need to do is make them as excellent and cheap and capacious as possible, and tax private education (and/or parents willing to pay for it) to subsidize public education.
We don't have to burn down Harvard, but we do need to make sure that Harvard and its benefactors make University of Massachusetts cheap to free and high-quality for everyone.
posted by Scarf Joint at 4:53 PM on December 22, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm going to admit I find it a little annoying that people say "oh I don't see how/this can't be done by executive order," because it demonstrates that they wanted to put in their negative two cents while simply not having bothered to Google the actually pretty straightforward argument (it relies on a provision of the Higher Education Act). I don't expect nonlawyers to be confident in evaluating it, but if you're going to express an opinion about its legality, it really wouldn't hurt to have some idea of what the argument for is.
And, again, not particularly complicated what would happen afterwards: you have a issuance date cutoff. After that, loans are not forgiven. That is another problem and a real problem, but wringing one's hands over whether people can grasp the concept of a date cut-off seems pretty disingenuous.
This is not a systemic fix for America's ridiculously kludgy and exploitative postsecondary education system; it's a one-time response to particularly egregious circumstances. I don't know how to tell you guys this, but there's basically no momentum for the former.
posted by praemunire at 4:58 PM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
And, again, not particularly complicated what would happen afterwards: you have a issuance date cutoff. After that, loans are not forgiven. That is another problem and a real problem, but wringing one's hands over whether people can grasp the concept of a date cut-off seems pretty disingenuous.
This is not a systemic fix for America's ridiculously kludgy and exploitative postsecondary education system; it's a one-time response to particularly egregious circumstances. I don't know how to tell you guys this, but there's basically no momentum for the former.
posted by praemunire at 4:58 PM on December 22, 2021 [11 favorites]
And then... do what with the $1.6T they'd have sitting on their books? It'd blow up the budget,
I'm confused by this comment. Do you think that the principal balance gets paid into the Treasury every year?
(Even if it were, that's basically just two years of 2021's military budget.)
posted by praemunire at 5:01 PM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
I'm confused by this comment. Do you think that the principal balance gets paid into the Treasury every year?
(Even if it were, that's basically just two years of 2021's military budget.)
posted by praemunire at 5:01 PM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
A one-time fix -- a jubilee -- is way, way better than doing nothing. But if you gather the political will to address the existing student loan crisis, why not take that will a step further and insist on a permanent reform to public post-secondary tuition costs so we don't reach a similar or worse crisis a decade or two from now?
posted by Scarf Joint at 5:03 PM on December 22, 2021
posted by Scarf Joint at 5:03 PM on December 22, 2021
Academic debt is a large fact of life in our family. It looms like the mortgage.
I have heard people call student loans their "job mortgage" -- a monthly payment that provided their employment, but will last for most of their working life.
I'm all for the extension of the freeze, but really wish that there was a serious chance at getting the systemic changes that are needed to fix the overall situation. But this is a case where the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good, and this is a move that directly helps many, many people who need that help.
the $900/month I've been saving
I'm always more shocked by the monthly payment amounts than I am by the total amounts owed. The total is kind of an abstract figure, but the monthly payment has to get paid with real, earned money, month in and month out.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:03 PM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
I have heard people call student loans their "job mortgage" -- a monthly payment that provided their employment, but will last for most of their working life.
I'm all for the extension of the freeze, but really wish that there was a serious chance at getting the systemic changes that are needed to fix the overall situation. But this is a case where the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good, and this is a move that directly helps many, many people who need that help.
the $900/month I've been saving
I'm always more shocked by the monthly payment amounts than I am by the total amounts owed. The total is kind of an abstract figure, but the monthly payment has to get paid with real, earned money, month in and month out.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:03 PM on December 22, 2021 [5 favorites]
But if you gather the political will to address the existing student loan crisis, why not take that will a step further and insist on a permanent reform to public post-secondary tuition costs so we don't reach a similar or worse crisis a decade or two from now?
Because the latter is going to require much more complex and prolonged solutions than the former, which (if you read the law as I do) can be accomplished by executive order. To me, it seems that the first step to addressing the broader problems will be huge infusions of federal funds into the public university systems (conditioned on restrictions on tuition and including community colleges), which will, of course, require Congressional action. But that is only the centerpiece of what would need to be an expansive program.
posted by praemunire at 5:08 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Because the latter is going to require much more complex and prolonged solutions than the former, which (if you read the law as I do) can be accomplished by executive order. To me, it seems that the first step to addressing the broader problems will be huge infusions of federal funds into the public university systems (conditioned on restrictions on tuition and including community colleges), which will, of course, require Congressional action. But that is only the centerpiece of what would need to be an expansive program.
posted by praemunire at 5:08 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
OK, praemunire, I think you're exactly right, and I think I think we agree that we shouldn't hold an immediate loan forgiveness hostage to longer-term public education finance reform.
But if all we achieve is current loan forgiveness, it's a band-aid reform and an incentive for public and especially private colleges to jack up tuition again and for prospective students to hope that the even crazier debt they're signing up for will be forgiven again and again.
I feel strongly that we should be moving toward public college tuition reduction and away from forgiving private college loan debt. Let's make public colleges effective and attractive and cheap or free. Let's stop subsidizing private colleges. If they want to charge huge tuition, let rich kids get in, but only if poor kids get enormous scholarships to attend, too. If those colleges don't do that, let them get taxed into the ground.
posted by Scarf Joint at 5:14 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
But if all we achieve is current loan forgiveness, it's a band-aid reform and an incentive for public and especially private colleges to jack up tuition again and for prospective students to hope that the even crazier debt they're signing up for will be forgiven again and again.
I feel strongly that we should be moving toward public college tuition reduction and away from forgiving private college loan debt. Let's make public colleges effective and attractive and cheap or free. Let's stop subsidizing private colleges. If they want to charge huge tuition, let rich kids get in, but only if poor kids get enormous scholarships to attend, too. If those colleges don't do that, let them get taxed into the ground.
posted by Scarf Joint at 5:14 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Let's put expensive private schools' feet on that fire instead. If a lot of them go out of business, that's fine with me. Let's tax all that money saved into public education tuition decreases instead.
The vast majority of private nonprofit colleges and universities are not Ivys. They are mostly small schools, and many of them currently fill important roles that the very large public university systems don't fill. In my rural state, the only way you can train to be a doctor, a nurse, a dentist, a dental hygienist, a physical therapist, an occupational therapist, a PA is to attend a private university. The public universities simply are not providing those programs, and students would need to travel, at minimum, a couple of hundred miles away from their homes to do that.
There is this wild idea out there that all private universities are Harvard and Yale and they are not. Most have tiny endowments and many provide important educational opportunities to students in their state.
posted by anastasiav at 5:43 PM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
The vast majority of private nonprofit colleges and universities are not Ivys. They are mostly small schools, and many of them currently fill important roles that the very large public university systems don't fill. In my rural state, the only way you can train to be a doctor, a nurse, a dentist, a dental hygienist, a physical therapist, an occupational therapist, a PA is to attend a private university. The public universities simply are not providing those programs, and students would need to travel, at minimum, a couple of hundred miles away from their homes to do that.
There is this wild idea out there that all private universities are Harvard and Yale and they are not. Most have tiny endowments and many provide important educational opportunities to students in their state.
posted by anastasiav at 5:43 PM on December 22, 2021 [6 favorites]
Oh, wait, we already have public colleges?
Nominally, yes. State university systems are one of the strengths of American higher education.
But states across the nation have systematically defunded state universities since the early 1980s. Most get only a minority of their budget from state governments now. As a recent University of Michigan president once put it,
I used to explain that during this period we had evolved from a state-supported to a state-assisted to a state-related to a state-located university. In fact, with Michigan campuses now located in Europe and Asia, we remain only a state-molested institution.
I recommend Chris Newfield's excellent The Great Mistake for a history and analysis.
posted by doctornemo at 5:49 PM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
Nominally, yes. State university systems are one of the strengths of American higher education.
But states across the nation have systematically defunded state universities since the early 1980s. Most get only a minority of their budget from state governments now. As a recent University of Michigan president once put it,
I used to explain that during this period we had evolved from a state-supported to a state-assisted to a state-related to a state-located university. In fact, with Michigan campuses now located in Europe and Asia, we remain only a state-molested institution.
I recommend Chris Newfield's excellent The Great Mistake for a history and analysis.
posted by doctornemo at 5:49 PM on December 22, 2021 [7 favorites]
The vast majority of private nonprofit colleges and universities are not Ivys.
Indeed. There are a tremendous number, from rich liberal arts colleges to passionately religious institutions to low-budget countercultural colleges and a lot more.
posted by doctornemo at 5:51 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
Indeed. There are a tremendous number, from rich liberal arts colleges to passionately religious institutions to low-budget countercultural colleges and a lot more.
posted by doctornemo at 5:51 PM on December 22, 2021 [4 favorites]
About those high college and university prices.
Those are sticker prices. What students actually pay is quite different.
Every college or university can reduce what a student (or their family) pays by a bunch of devices: scholarships, grants, etc. They do this to attract certain students for various reasons: an athlete for a rising of powerful team, someone from a geographical region the college wants to draw from, someone of whatever identity, a promising student from a poor family, etc.
If institutions do this at scale, the median amount students (or their families) pay is significantly lower than the sticker price. The term of art is "tuition discount," and at many BA-granting institutions it has risen to run around 50%.
So think of it this way. A college publishes a tuition of $60,000 per year. Their discount rate is 50%. Then the median family pays $30,000. The richest families pay up to and including $60K, depending. And less well resourced families pay less than 30K.
That's a quick sketch. Things play out differently in details. But you get the idea.
Someone in an Economist article said tuition discounting was how American schools do needs testing, and that's not a bad line. It is certainly one way colleges and universities approach escalating income and wealth inequality. And it means freaking out about published tuition prices isn't necessarily the right response.
posted by doctornemo at 5:58 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Those are sticker prices. What students actually pay is quite different.
Every college or university can reduce what a student (or their family) pays by a bunch of devices: scholarships, grants, etc. They do this to attract certain students for various reasons: an athlete for a rising of powerful team, someone from a geographical region the college wants to draw from, someone of whatever identity, a promising student from a poor family, etc.
If institutions do this at scale, the median amount students (or their families) pay is significantly lower than the sticker price. The term of art is "tuition discount," and at many BA-granting institutions it has risen to run around 50%.
So think of it this way. A college publishes a tuition of $60,000 per year. Their discount rate is 50%. Then the median family pays $30,000. The richest families pay up to and including $60K, depending. And less well resourced families pay less than 30K.
That's a quick sketch. Things play out differently in details. But you get the idea.
Someone in an Economist article said tuition discounting was how American schools do needs testing, and that's not a bad line. It is certainly one way colleges and universities approach escalating income and wealth inequality. And it means freaking out about published tuition prices isn't necessarily the right response.
posted by doctornemo at 5:58 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Someone in an Economist article said tuition discounting was how American schools do needs testing,
Yes and no. Scholarships are also how schools recruit high SAT/ACT score students, which are a factor in high profile college ranking methods. For example, my alma mater has a $20k scholarship for "Incoming freshmen are eligible with a minimum 31 ACT OR 1390 SAT AND 3.90 high school GPA." The test scores aren't too hard, but it's an absolute beast to get that high a score while taking as many college prep / AP courses as possible. Oh well.
posted by pwnguin at 7:48 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
Yes and no. Scholarships are also how schools recruit high SAT/ACT score students, which are a factor in high profile college ranking methods. For example, my alma mater has a $20k scholarship for "Incoming freshmen are eligible with a minimum 31 ACT OR 1390 SAT AND 3.90 high school GPA." The test scores aren't too hard, but it's an absolute beast to get that high a score while taking as many college prep / AP courses as possible. Oh well.
posted by pwnguin at 7:48 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
And to add to pwnguin's point, since family income is highly correlated with test scores, that means that there are a lot of "merit-based" scholarships that end up providing tuition discounts to rich kids who aren't the ones who need them most.
posted by naoko at 8:27 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by naoko at 8:27 PM on December 22, 2021 [1 favorite]
I apologize, i find this discussion quite surreal.
1) "this one time jubilee doesnt address the entire higher ed system, all future borrowers and the balanced budget" I mean it doesnt protect us from meteors or drunk drivers so i guess we should all oppose it?
2) "does the president have legal authority to do X". I mean, lets set aside that the law says he can do X, and that the DOJ and D of Ed memos say he can do X, and that he has already done X before for others. Set that all aside.
You are living in a pre-2016 world that had laws, rules, norms. This is 2021. Presidents don't need legal authority, they either have enough guys with guns that they can storm a building or defend it from those storming it.
Sorry, thats it.
There is no emulments clause, there is no Hatch Act, there are no high crimes or misdemeanors, there are no free and fair elections and peaceful transfers of power.
Biden can forgive loans just like Trump can withold approved aid to Ukraine or divert money to a wall, just like Texas can place bounties on abortion providers. The filibuster, executive privledge, the parlementarian, the real and fake CBO GAO scores, all these not-in-the-constituion or law passed by congress self-imposed rules that bind only those who want to be so bound.
Biden should forgive student loans because he's going to need someone loyal to him when the Gallows aren't for Mike Pence.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 8:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [19 favorites]
1) "this one time jubilee doesnt address the entire higher ed system, all future borrowers and the balanced budget" I mean it doesnt protect us from meteors or drunk drivers so i guess we should all oppose it?
2) "does the president have legal authority to do X". I mean, lets set aside that the law says he can do X, and that the DOJ and D of Ed memos say he can do X, and that he has already done X before for others. Set that all aside.
You are living in a pre-2016 world that had laws, rules, norms. This is 2021. Presidents don't need legal authority, they either have enough guys with guns that they can storm a building or defend it from those storming it.
Sorry, thats it.
There is no emulments clause, there is no Hatch Act, there are no high crimes or misdemeanors, there are no free and fair elections and peaceful transfers of power.
Biden can forgive loans just like Trump can withold approved aid to Ukraine or divert money to a wall, just like Texas can place bounties on abortion providers. The filibuster, executive privledge, the parlementarian, the real and fake CBO GAO scores, all these not-in-the-constituion or law passed by congress self-imposed rules that bind only those who want to be so bound.
Biden should forgive student loans because he's going to need someone loyal to him when the Gallows aren't for Mike Pence.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 8:39 PM on December 22, 2021 [19 favorites]
This might be the wrojg place for this, but I am curious as to how a unilateral executive debt cancellation would play out and I still don't really understand it. For example, what would the Republicans be likely to do in response? Can.... can someone explain the process without jumping down my throat or being condescending or telling me I should already have figured out the provisions of the Higher Education Act for myself? This is not rhetorical, this is not snark, this is not concern trolling, this is not me arguing that it can't or shouldn't be done. I want it to be done! I am genuinely curious about how a president would go about cancelling student debt and what the response would be. You can send me a MeMail if you want.
posted by cubeb at 6:04 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by cubeb at 6:04 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
how a unilateral executive debt cancellation would play out
The president has the power to modify/cancel all federal student loans via the higher education act, which made such loans possible in the first place. Not clear to me how private lending applies here. At the legislative level there's little that the republicans can do because the democrats control the house right now. It's likely that some financial institutions would sue if Biden did this. But even in that case, supposing they win and for some reason the clause in the higher education act that gives the education secretary (and by extension the president) this power is struck down, i don't think that means all your debt will come back, just that the president can't do it again (and maybe the banks are awarded damages or something). There will definitely be political fallout and lawsuits but the forgiveness will hold, i think.
posted by dis_integration at 7:24 AM on December 23, 2021
The president has the power to modify/cancel all federal student loans via the higher education act, which made such loans possible in the first place. Not clear to me how private lending applies here. At the legislative level there's little that the republicans can do because the democrats control the house right now. It's likely that some financial institutions would sue if Biden did this. But even in that case, supposing they win and for some reason the clause in the higher education act that gives the education secretary (and by extension the president) this power is struck down, i don't think that means all your debt will come back, just that the president can't do it again (and maybe the banks are awarded damages or something). There will definitely be political fallout and lawsuits but the forgiveness will hold, i think.
posted by dis_integration at 7:24 AM on December 23, 2021
The process would just be an executive order citing the power given to the president by Congress and declaring the loans forgiven.
posted by dis_integration at 7:26 AM on December 23, 2021
posted by dis_integration at 7:26 AM on December 23, 2021
While it seems to be the case that the Metafilter Collective Consciousness has decided that Biden has the power to unilaterally forgive student loans via an Executive Order, I think it is worth noting that this is not a universally-held opinion.
The Biden Administration is on record as having asked for a legal opinion concerning the President's ability to cancel debts via an EO, but AFAICT the only version of the memo that's been released in response to FOIA is almost completely redacted. It would be rather interesting to get an un-redacted version of it, but if it's been leaked I haven't found it.
Pelosi apparently does not think an EO is a serious option. Schumer and Warren think it is.
The legal argument in favor of debt cancellation via EO seems to hinge on a particular interpretation of the Higher Education Act, 20 USC 1082(a)(6), and particularly the language giving the Secretary of Education the authority to "modify, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired, including any equity or any right of redemption". Which sounds good on its face, but others have noted that the Act limits the Secretary's power to "the performance of, and with respect to, the functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by [Part B of Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965]", i.e. it is not a carte blanche, and the Secretary's power is wholly derived from Congress' authorization. Previous debt cancellations have occurred under specific programs authorized by Congress, e.g. PSLF, Total and Permanent Disability, etc. It is very much not clear that the Secretary can discharge debts outside of an enabling law by Congress. Then there is also the issue of 31 CFR 902.2, which lays out the general circumstances under which a Federal agency may "compromise a debt", typically requiring a finding that "[t]he debtor is unable to pay the full amount in a reasonable time", taking into account their assets, the government's ability to garnish wages, etc. At any rate, it appears to be a fairly complex issue that would certainly result in litigation.
Of course, I'm just a dog on the Internet. The number of people whose opinions on this matter actually count for anything is pretty small: ultimately, I suspect it would come down to nine people, plus or minus their clerks, aides, etc.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:46 AM on December 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
The Biden Administration is on record as having asked for a legal opinion concerning the President's ability to cancel debts via an EO, but AFAICT the only version of the memo that's been released in response to FOIA is almost completely redacted. It would be rather interesting to get an un-redacted version of it, but if it's been leaked I haven't found it.
Pelosi apparently does not think an EO is a serious option. Schumer and Warren think it is.
The legal argument in favor of debt cancellation via EO seems to hinge on a particular interpretation of the Higher Education Act, 20 USC 1082(a)(6), and particularly the language giving the Secretary of Education the authority to "modify, compromise, waive, or release any right, title, claim, lien, or demand, however acquired, including any equity or any right of redemption". Which sounds good on its face, but others have noted that the Act limits the Secretary's power to "the performance of, and with respect to, the functions, powers, and duties, vested in him by [Part B of Title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965]", i.e. it is not a carte blanche, and the Secretary's power is wholly derived from Congress' authorization. Previous debt cancellations have occurred under specific programs authorized by Congress, e.g. PSLF, Total and Permanent Disability, etc. It is very much not clear that the Secretary can discharge debts outside of an enabling law by Congress. Then there is also the issue of 31 CFR 902.2, which lays out the general circumstances under which a Federal agency may "compromise a debt", typically requiring a finding that "[t]he debtor is unable to pay the full amount in a reasonable time", taking into account their assets, the government's ability to garnish wages, etc. At any rate, it appears to be a fairly complex issue that would certainly result in litigation.
Of course, I'm just a dog on the Internet. The number of people whose opinions on this matter actually count for anything is pretty small: ultimately, I suspect it would come down to nine people, plus or minus their clerks, aides, etc.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:46 AM on December 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
Even if it gets tied up in courts, from a political standpoint, making it "Trump appointed judges" stopping people from getting debt relief rather than "Democrat's inaction" would be a win though.
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:55 AM on December 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Zalzidrax at 8:55 AM on December 23, 2021 [4 favorites]
The number of people whose opinions on this matter actually count for anything is pretty small
Yes there's no doubt that it would be contested, the law is too complicated and there are too many competing acts touching on the issue, but there's definitely enough to make an EO prima facie defensible and once it's done i think it's a done deed. I don't think you can walk it back and reinstate the loans that were declared forgiven, no matter what happens in the courts, that's too insane even for America
posted by dis_integration at 9:46 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Yes there's no doubt that it would be contested, the law is too complicated and there are too many competing acts touching on the issue, but there's definitely enough to make an EO prima facie defensible and once it's done i think it's a done deed. I don't think you can walk it back and reinstate the loans that were declared forgiven, no matter what happens in the courts, that's too insane even for America
posted by dis_integration at 9:46 AM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I mean it doesnt protect us from meteors or drunk drivers so i guess we should all oppose it?
I suppose how I feel about things on this site doesn't mean much of anything, to be honest, but in addition to being entirely opposed to meteors and drunk drivers, I'm also opposed in general to just throwing money at a problem, until some light is shone upon the side effects. Tuition rates have risen faster than inflation for decades, and government-backed loans have made that easier for public and private schools to get away with. I'm for getting rid of student loans and tuition fees entirely, but it has to be done smart, or schools will just look at their business models and raise their tuitions even faster, to the point where students will need loans again and we're back to square one.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:15 AM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I suppose how I feel about things on this site doesn't mean much of anything, to be honest, but in addition to being entirely opposed to meteors and drunk drivers, I'm also opposed in general to just throwing money at a problem, until some light is shone upon the side effects. Tuition rates have risen faster than inflation for decades, and government-backed loans have made that easier for public and private schools to get away with. I'm for getting rid of student loans and tuition fees entirely, but it has to be done smart, or schools will just look at their business models and raise their tuitions even faster, to the point where students will need loans again and we're back to square one.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:15 AM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
What a no-brainer move this was. That it took a backlash to get here is such an indictment of the stupidity of Biden and the people he's surrounding himself with. We really are dealing with top-level Democrats who have 1) no sense of urgency about fixing the urgent problems facing U.S. citizens, and 2) no empathy for the folks at or near the bottom of the economy.
Student debt is a great burden, and a good many individuals who hold this debt are low income, but can we please acknowledge that people with college degrees are generally much more economically secure than people who don't have these degrees? (And yes, I understand that not everyone who has student loan debt has a degree.)
posted by cinchona at 1:04 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Student debt is a great burden, and a good many individuals who hold this debt are low income, but can we please acknowledge that people with college degrees are generally much more economically secure than people who don't have these degrees? (And yes, I understand that not everyone who has student loan debt has a degree.)
posted by cinchona at 1:04 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
I strongly suspect that asking for total relief is like asking for Covid to disappear, to have unicorns exist, for me to find true love, or to make fetch happen. That is just literally too much to ask for in our world.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:17 PM on December 23, 2021
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:17 PM on December 23, 2021
The reason for this progressivity is simple: People from wealthy backgrounds (and their parents) rarely use student loans to pay for college.
This is going to be an unpopular position, but.... student debt forgiveness is not very progressive. It does nothing for the very large section of the population that is poor and does not have college debt. The demographics of people who carry student loan debt are both wealthier and whiter than average, and attempts to spin this as good for the poor and minorities are overlooking the opportunity cost of other ways to spend this jubilee pot. It would be more progressive to just divide the money evenly among everyone, à la UBI. This smells like Democrat favoritism for their base.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:24 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
This is going to be an unpopular position, but.... student debt forgiveness is not very progressive. It does nothing for the very large section of the population that is poor and does not have college debt. The demographics of people who carry student loan debt are both wealthier and whiter than average, and attempts to spin this as good for the poor and minorities are overlooking the opportunity cost of other ways to spend this jubilee pot. It would be more progressive to just divide the money evenly among everyone, à la UBI. This smells like Democrat favoritism for their base.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:24 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
From the Brookings Institution, not exactly a bunch of wild-haired commies: Student loans, the racial wealth divide, and why we need full student debt cancellation
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 2:58 PM on December 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
The most frequent argument against cancelling student debt is that it would be regressive: Because student debtors have college educations, they are better off than those who ostensibly didn’t go to college. A variation on this claim is that higher-balance borrowers tend to have higher incomes. The former claim rests on a comparison of student debtors to those without student debt (and imputes incomes to each group), while the latter concerns comparisons between borrowers.Plenty more in there both on the economics and demographics, and there's even more demographic data in the Education Data Initiative's "Student Loan Debt by Race".
Neither claim is factual.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 2:58 PM on December 23, 2021 [8 favorites]
Don’t varying rates of post-secondary educational attainment mean that this will disproportionately benefit non-BIPOC?
posted by Selena777 at 5:05 PM on December 23, 2021
posted by Selena777 at 5:05 PM on December 23, 2021
Perhaps it is a failure of my imagination, but
1)I fail to see the enormous restraint higher ed has supposedly engaged in and will then stop engaging in, with regard to their tuition rates, if people who are already in debt and out of higher ed settle their accounts differently with their owners who are not those higher ed instutions.
As a hostage crisis this seems illogical. If my neighbor doesn't pay his bank for his house, why would I price gouge my
cousin who will sleep on my couch? Former students aren't in debt to their universities, they are in debt to their government and to banks. The universities got paid. This kind of hypothetical feedback whereby if we do a policy there could be a rube-goldbergesque blow back is meant only to obstruct. Worried about tuition costs? the lever to pull is regulating tuition costs at private instutions or competing by offering free education elsewhere.
2) That debt forgiveness skews to the wealthy/prrivledged and therefore is what? Immoral compared to other american institutions? Not useful politically? These claims make no sense to me even if they were true.
I mean i suppose since american debt forgiveness would apply to alive americans you can argue that alive americans are better off than many non americans and many dead people. As a political platform "inaction for those with the privledge of having this problem and not something worse" well, should we drop everything and only fight for the liberation of those being actively tortured? How deseving does someone need to be to get debt relief? Does debt relief preclude helping peoole less fortunate than debtors?
Maybe im too obtuse or extreme to see the sincerity and validity of these arguments. I have no debts if any kind and I think higher ed is a scam where people buy (reaffirm) social rank not useful skills. But surely the indebted are less useful to us as a country or to political partisans than if they were free of this debt?
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 5:17 PM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
1)I fail to see the enormous restraint higher ed has supposedly engaged in and will then stop engaging in, with regard to their tuition rates, if people who are already in debt and out of higher ed settle their accounts differently with their owners who are not those higher ed instutions.
As a hostage crisis this seems illogical. If my neighbor doesn't pay his bank for his house, why would I price gouge my
cousin who will sleep on my couch? Former students aren't in debt to their universities, they are in debt to their government and to banks. The universities got paid. This kind of hypothetical feedback whereby if we do a policy there could be a rube-goldbergesque blow back is meant only to obstruct. Worried about tuition costs? the lever to pull is regulating tuition costs at private instutions or competing by offering free education elsewhere.
2) That debt forgiveness skews to the wealthy/prrivledged and therefore is what? Immoral compared to other american institutions? Not useful politically? These claims make no sense to me even if they were true.
I mean i suppose since american debt forgiveness would apply to alive americans you can argue that alive americans are better off than many non americans and many dead people. As a political platform "inaction for those with the privledge of having this problem and not something worse" well, should we drop everything and only fight for the liberation of those being actively tortured? How deseving does someone need to be to get debt relief? Does debt relief preclude helping peoole less fortunate than debtors?
Maybe im too obtuse or extreme to see the sincerity and validity of these arguments. I have no debts if any kind and I think higher ed is a scam where people buy (reaffirm) social rank not useful skills. But surely the indebted are less useful to us as a country or to political partisans than if they were free of this debt?
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 5:17 PM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'll stop beating this dead horse. Debt forgiveness is about power; the power to profit from and cripple someone with debt is useful if that person is not on your team and counterproductive if they are on your team. With banks and home mortages, student loans, medical debt, the anti-forgivers make clear who they think is on their team and who is their intended victem.
Debtors should eacape or usurp their oppressors - politically and peacefully if possible or out of self defense if there is no peaceful means.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 5:23 PM on December 23, 2021
Debtors should eacape or usurp their oppressors - politically and peacefully if possible or out of self defense if there is no peaceful means.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 5:23 PM on December 23, 2021
The way I’m interpreting the findings is that *when* black people have student loan debt, they have more of it in tandem with a weaker financial position and earning potential throughout their careers. The rate of college attendance is still lower, meaning fewer people within the group are adversely affected by the student loan issue.
posted by Selena777 at 5:50 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 5:50 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
Now is the threat of a student loan burden preventing underrepresented groups from considering higher education? Maybe, but a one time jubilee doesn’t solve that.
posted by Selena777 at 5:52 PM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 5:52 PM on December 23, 2021 [2 favorites]
You are living in a pre-2016 world that had laws, rules, norms. This is 2021. Presidents don't need legal authority, they either have enough guys with guns that they can storm a building or defend it from those storming it.
So you're ready to just toss the rule of law in the trash now? Cool, cool.
Count me out. I do in fact prefer a president who recognizes that there are limits on his power, rather than a dictator who will enact exactly the policies I prefer.
If you believe the rule of law has already been completely trashed, so Biden should just stop playing along... you are incredibly naive. There are a number of places in the world that are vastly more corrupt and dysfunctional than the United States in 2021. Go try living in one of them for a while, then report back on how we should just sweep away all remaining respect for legal constraints on executive power, and hit the gas pedal as we speed toward the authoritarian cliff.
Part of the work of maintaining and restoring democracy and the rule of law is modeling respect for it. If you don't see the value of that, I don't know what to say.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:19 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
So you're ready to just toss the rule of law in the trash now? Cool, cool.
Count me out. I do in fact prefer a president who recognizes that there are limits on his power, rather than a dictator who will enact exactly the policies I prefer.
If you believe the rule of law has already been completely trashed, so Biden should just stop playing along... you are incredibly naive. There are a number of places in the world that are vastly more corrupt and dysfunctional than the United States in 2021. Go try living in one of them for a while, then report back on how we should just sweep away all remaining respect for legal constraints on executive power, and hit the gas pedal as we speed toward the authoritarian cliff.
Part of the work of maintaining and restoring democracy and the rule of law is modeling respect for it. If you don't see the value of that, I don't know what to say.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:19 PM on December 23, 2021 [3 favorites]
See the article posted above.
So I did, and read the actual report rather than the paywall summary of talking points. They make a good point that Biden can't unilaterally forgive all debt, just the Federal loans. The private loans professionals take out -- because the Federal limits are insufficient -- will be unaffected, and anyone saddled unfeasible private loans seems best served by talking to Congress or a lawyer. There's also some technical points about non-borrowers in calculations.
But then they go on to point out that at all deciles, black borrowers are more indebted, and moreover, when you break it out by race, is absolutely regressive -- black high earners get more debt forgiven than black low earners, same for latinx and white. Then go on to say 'well, we should really be calculating this based on assets not income, and if we do, then its basically flat!" (although my take on the error bars is that in Figure 6 is that we're not too sure that's actually the case).
Well, this strikes me as saying that poor people don't have much money anyways and therefore would be thankful to get anything at all.
posted by pwnguin at 8:21 PM on December 23, 2021
So I did, and read the actual report rather than the paywall summary of talking points. They make a good point that Biden can't unilaterally forgive all debt, just the Federal loans. The private loans professionals take out -- because the Federal limits are insufficient -- will be unaffected, and anyone saddled unfeasible private loans seems best served by talking to Congress or a lawyer. There's also some technical points about non-borrowers in calculations.
But then they go on to point out that at all deciles, black borrowers are more indebted, and moreover, when you break it out by race, is absolutely regressive -- black high earners get more debt forgiven than black low earners, same for latinx and white. Then go on to say 'well, we should really be calculating this based on assets not income, and if we do, then its basically flat!" (although my take on the error bars is that in Figure 6 is that we're not too sure that's actually the case).
Well, this strikes me as saying that poor people don't have much money anyways and therefore would be thankful to get anything at all.
posted by pwnguin at 8:21 PM on December 23, 2021
Maybe this is a derail. Seems like "Biden forgiving debt" is a sometimes law sometimes not. Artifice-Eternity, we both agree on the value of civic institutions and 'rule of law'. I think we disagree with what currently obtains in your country.
Obviously most societies neither suceed or even try to enforce rules against their most powerful and wealthy, (lord knows they don't
where i am) but the question is do those rules apply to the little people in all the factions.
Maybe the news I see is distorted, but it seems like you have a case where only one of your parties has laws enforced against its members , thats not modelling rule of law, that is oppression. Are both teams protests supported or attacked by state forces. Are the election funds accounted or illicit for both, are the weapons rules applied to both?
Law enforcement is what makes the little people on both teams obey laws, not modelling that one always backs down while the other always iceskates. Your governor cuomo had to arrogate his office, but not your governor abbott, for example.
I am sad that USA has half of its political class and 1/3 its people on team fasciste; i am unclear how forgiving Student Loans would be the insult to the constituion compared to ignoring subpoenas, destroying records, extorting funds, abussing assylumees, threatening election officials, etc.
Militias for political parties is not rule of law, it is rule of gun.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 11:05 PM on December 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
Obviously most societies neither suceed or even try to enforce rules against their most powerful and wealthy, (lord knows they don't
where i am) but the question is do those rules apply to the little people in all the factions.
Maybe the news I see is distorted, but it seems like you have a case where only one of your parties has laws enforced against its members , thats not modelling rule of law, that is oppression. Are both teams protests supported or attacked by state forces. Are the election funds accounted or illicit for both, are the weapons rules applied to both?
Law enforcement is what makes the little people on both teams obey laws, not modelling that one always backs down while the other always iceskates. Your governor cuomo had to arrogate his office, but not your governor abbott, for example.
I am sad that USA has half of its political class and 1/3 its people on team fasciste; i am unclear how forgiving Student Loans would be the insult to the constituion compared to ignoring subpoenas, destroying records, extorting funds, abussing assylumees, threatening election officials, etc.
Militias for political parties is not rule of law, it is rule of gun.
posted by anecdotal_grand_theory at 11:05 PM on December 23, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'm in favor of forgiveness.
Something else that would help, especially if full forgiveness is going to be means-tested or capped, would be eliminating interest on student loan debt. That coupled with income based repayment would ease the burden significantly while (hopefully) shutting down all the yammering about moral hazard.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:10 AM on December 24, 2021
Something else that would help, especially if full forgiveness is going to be means-tested or capped, would be eliminating interest on student loan debt. That coupled with income based repayment would ease the burden significantly while (hopefully) shutting down all the yammering about moral hazard.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:10 AM on December 24, 2021
there's definitely enough to make an EO prima facie defensible and once it's done i think it's a done deed. I don't think you can walk it back and reinstate the loans that were declared forgiven
I think the likely scenario is that before Biden actually signed such a thing, word would get around and the opposition would have all the paperwork ready to go, and the moment the EO was signed there would be a suit, followed by some sort of emergency hearing, and an immediate stay of implementation. Since as you note, it might be difficult to reinstate debts that had been cancelled, and since the legality of that cancellation would be the item in dispute, the argument for halting implementation of the EO by the Education Department would be pretty strong. Maybe a clever judge would order them to put all payments made into some sort of escrow in the meantime, I suppose. But I think payments would be coming due.
Maybe this would be a good thing for the Democrats politically. I feel like they have well-paid sorts of people to think about such things, with access to data that I don't, so the fact that Biden hasn't done such a thing makes me think they don't view it as advantageous.* But at best, I think you'd have one day of headlines saying "Student Debt Cancelled!" before the inevitable "Actually Not So Much", and then the long process of arguing it up to the Supreme Court would commence.
* If I was going to guess, maybe there is concern that the issue doesn't poll very well in less-urban areas and among people without college educations, and they are worried about the effect that might have on the mid-terms.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:14 AM on December 25, 2021
I think the likely scenario is that before Biden actually signed such a thing, word would get around and the opposition would have all the paperwork ready to go, and the moment the EO was signed there would be a suit, followed by some sort of emergency hearing, and an immediate stay of implementation. Since as you note, it might be difficult to reinstate debts that had been cancelled, and since the legality of that cancellation would be the item in dispute, the argument for halting implementation of the EO by the Education Department would be pretty strong. Maybe a clever judge would order them to put all payments made into some sort of escrow in the meantime, I suppose. But I think payments would be coming due.
Maybe this would be a good thing for the Democrats politically. I feel like they have well-paid sorts of people to think about such things, with access to data that I don't, so the fact that Biden hasn't done such a thing makes me think they don't view it as advantageous.* But at best, I think you'd have one day of headlines saying "Student Debt Cancelled!" before the inevitable "Actually Not So Much", and then the long process of arguing it up to the Supreme Court would commence.
* If I was going to guess, maybe there is concern that the issue doesn't poll very well in less-urban areas and among people without college educations, and they are worried about the effect that might have on the mid-terms.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:14 AM on December 25, 2021
Now that I’m living in Australia, I think the US student loan system is completely nuts. Here they do your loan repayments via the tax system, with no interest, at a rate indexed to your income level. (Annual adjustments for cost of living.)
posted by ec2y at 3:00 PM on December 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by ec2y at 3:00 PM on December 25, 2021 [1 favorite]
Link: https://www.studyassist.gov.au/paying-back-your-loan/loan-repayment
posted by ec2y at 3:01 PM on December 25, 2021
posted by ec2y at 3:01 PM on December 25, 2021
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posted by Ahmad Khani at 10:59 AM on December 22, 2021 [46 favorites]