Life, no parole, +20; Life, no parole, +20; Life w/possible parole

January 7, 2022 12:17 PM

Ahmaud Arbery's killers have been sentenced.
posted by box (42 comments total)

That's just.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:20 PM on January 7, 2022 [5 favorites]

Good. Finally. A lynching prosecuted as a murder and sentenced as such. I hope this is the turning point in our shameful history of adjudication of these sort of crimes.
posted by hippybear at 12:20 PM on January 7, 2022 [63 favorites]

What's the Georgia law for minimum time served before parole in a life sentence?

I would like this to send a message to those who would try things like this again. Unfortunately, it may just any people who follow them just make sure they do it out sight as much as possible to make sure there's no witnesses.
posted by mephron at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

“This is what they deserve, and this is right,” says the optimist in me... “and it will change nothing about how we treat people of color in this country,” responds the pessimist side.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:29 PM on January 7, 2022 [15 favorites]

Trying hard to be the optimist. But, as a Minneapolis resident, I saw the impact of the George Floyd rulings and it was a resounding nothing. We had rage, riots, anger, and yet still have the same cops doing the same shit with impunity. The same people with the same sense of entitlement. The same racists feeling like they can keep on being racist because after #45, it's now totally fine to be open about it.
posted by caution live frogs at 12:35 PM on January 7, 2022 [10 favorites]

A reminder that the only reason this conviction happened is because the murderers filmed their murder and then sent it to a radio station because they felt it exonerated them.
posted by AlSweigart at 12:37 PM on January 7, 2022 [94 favorites]

May the prosecutions of violent, racist criminals like them -- up to and including Trump and his co-conspirators -- not stop there. Let justice be done though the heavens fall.
posted by Gelatin at 12:44 PM on January 7, 2022 [10 favorites]

I hope I'm able to convey what how I feel properly, with apologies if I don't --

I'm very glad they were convicted. They did a disgusting, racist, horrifying, terrifying thing and I'm glad they were convicted. I'm also extremely conscious of the fact that there are lots of other people who are in prison with them who are now extra vulnerable; think how scary it would be to be a Black man locked up with these killers, and think about the infiltration of law enforcement (including correctional officers) by white supremacists -- these men going to jail is not "the end" for people who will be confined with them. I'm a prison abolitionist for many reasons, including not wanting to leave anyone locked in a cage with men like these. There are no good answers here, because they did a monstrous thing and there is no undoing it and, as I say, I think them being convicted is the best outcome possible here but I'm not exactly happy either.

I hope I've managed to convey my point appropriately; I know this is a really upsetting, triggering topic for many people and I hope I've been sensitive to that.
posted by an octopus IRL at 12:57 PM on January 7, 2022 [24 favorites]

I have waffled on capital punishment over the years, but this was one of the rare instances where it would have been a just sentence for these perps. Though life without parole may be fair outcome for the victim's family, and I'd hold their views above any opinion I might even begin to have.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:05 PM on January 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

Bye, fellas.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:11 PM on January 7, 2022

There are very few crimes for which I believe a sentence of lifetime imprisonment is just. This type of cold-blooded hateful lynching is one of them. This cannot bring back Mr. Arbury of course, but the world is safer and kinder with the people who would do such a thing banished from it. Perhaps death would be an appropriate consequence for them, but I don't believe our justice system should wield that power, and so incarceration is the next appropriate choice. There is an important discussion about the carceral state to be had, one probably best had elsewhere, but I am relieved to see this judgment.
posted by biogeo at 1:26 PM on January 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

What's the Georgia law for minimum time served before parole in a life sentence?

I think it depends. CNN says that "Bryan, 52, will not be eligible for parole under Georgia law until he has served 30 years in prison because he was convicted of serious violent felonies. "
posted by BungaDunga at 1:28 PM on January 7, 2022

What's the Georgia law for minimum time served before parole in a life sentence?

Thirty years, per the Georgia State Board of Pardons and Paroles.

Since 1995, there have been two statutory changes pertaining to serious violent felonies that determine parole eligibility for a life sentenced offender. If a crime considered to be a "seven deadly sin" was committed prior to 1995, the offender is eligible after seven years. In 1995, offenders committing these crimes became eligible after serving fourteen years. If the crime is committed on/after July 1, 2006, the offender is eligible for parole after serving thirty years.

posted by hanov3r at 1:29 PM on January 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

May these men and everyone who shares their worldview, even to the smallest degree, come to understand the gravity of their actions and the need for change.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 1:31 PM on January 7, 2022 [5 favorites]

fuck them.
posted by The_Auditor at 1:33 PM on January 7, 2022 [13 favorites]

A further reminder that the only reason they were even arrested was because the state of GA took over the case after the video came out. Local LE tried to cover up the whole thing.

They were protecting their own.
posted by Freelance Demiurge at 1:45 PM on January 7, 2022 [57 favorites]

Good
posted by supermedusa at 1:45 PM on January 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

Great. Now it's time to bring Jackie Johnson and George Barnhill to justice; they were the local district attorneys who helped cover the murderers and protect them from prosecution. I'd also like to learn more about the local police's involvement.
posted by Nelson at 1:52 PM on January 7, 2022 [71 favorites]

good but also a quick reminder that this is probably the 1% of times you see anything resembling justice, and that there's plenty of similar instances that haven't and still don't get any media attention

we're still waiting to see what happens with the murderers of Rayshard Brooks and Jamarion Robinson here in ATL. both of those cases I only know of because they had significant organizing around them that lasted, at least in Robinson's case, years
posted by paimapi at 2:02 PM on January 7, 2022 [9 favorites]

Trying hard to be the optimist. But, as a Minneapolis resident, I saw the impact of the George Floyd rulings and it was a resounding nothing.

I get the urge to dismiss any gains as worthless. We are facing a mountain of racist hate and violence, and no one conviction is going to make it go away, but does that mean we don't say "here there was some justice done?" No court ruling can return Mr. Arbury to his family and friends, and these convictions don't bring justice to other people murdered, injured, abused, and crushed under the wheels of the legacy of race hate in America, but shouldn't we take hope in the victory this represents? The comfort, however slight, that Mr. Arbury's loved ones might take in seeing his killers face justice is not nothing. The conviction of Derek Chauvin is not nothing. It's a start. We have been building this machine for 400 years, who knows how long it will take to tear it down? But, if it's going to be torn down, it will be done brick by brick, case by case -- if even one Black American's life is saved by this decision, with a violent racist deciding it's not safe for them to commit murder; isn't that more than nothing?

Maybe it's OK to just say "here is some justice" and look to the next chance.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:13 PM on January 7, 2022 [57 favorites]

justice. to hell with these assholes. LWOP can be a just sentence in some cases, and the family rightly demanded retribution at sentencing, and they got it.
posted by wibari at 2:52 PM on January 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

I used to be 100% against the death penalty. But this case has made me 99% against the death penalty.

I advocate for the death penalty when there's a high chance for convicted fascists to be pardoned by the next fascist president.
posted by AlSweigart at 3:02 PM on January 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

The death penalty doesn't work anywhere near that swiftly here.
posted by Selena777 at 3:11 PM on January 7, 2022 [1 favorite]

I advocate for the death penalty when there's a high chance for convicted fascists to be pardoned by the next fascist president.

They were convicted of violating state laws; the President has no pardon authority.
posted by mr_roboto at 3:24 PM on January 7, 2022 [3 favorites]

an octopus IRL These guys are not going to be predators inside. Best case and, probably most likely case, is they spend their whole bids in PC playing cards with sex offenders and former cops. If they somehow end up in general population, they sure look like victims to me. (I spent 5 years in prison in a southern state. Most of it was in a low level facility, some of it was in much higher levels.)
posted by youthenrage at 3:56 PM on January 7, 2022 [29 favorites]

it was pretty satisfying to hear judge timothy walmsley read his statement and then the sentences.
(it was pretty distressing to hear parties' argument about sentencing, though, so avoid those; anytime before about 4:13:xx in the linked video).
posted by 20 year lurk at 4:03 PM on January 7, 2022

They were convicted of violating state laws; the President has no pardon authority.

A lack of authority is not a problem for a fascist president.

Please stop saying, "That can't happen here." My heart can't take it anymore.
posted by AlSweigart at 4:23 PM on January 7, 2022 [6 favorites]

I'm also extremely conscious of the fact that there are lots of other people who are in prison with them who are now extra vulnerable; think how scary it would be to be a Black man locked up with these killers

This is one of those well-intentioned statements that comes off as a pretty weird view of things nonetheless. I don’t want to speak too authoritatively about Georgia in particular but structures of racialized violence are pretty established in prisons with or without these three. And one thing I can say about prisoners in Georgia is that almost 60 percent are Black, so between that and their national infamy for a hate murder, I suspect if they get any special consideration from the system it will be isolation from the general population for their own protection (or to avoid stirring up violence all around).
posted by atoxyl at 4:25 PM on January 7, 2022 [8 favorites]

Roddy Bryan's attorney tried to argue that felony murder is unconstitutional. Greg McMichael's attorney agreed with that defense argument. I too agree. Felony murder is a horrendous idea that has been used as an excuse to lock many Black men away for life or even execute them. I wonder how many Black men Greg McMichael helped pin felony murder on when he was an investigator for the corrupt Glynn County DA's office.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:29 PM on January 7, 2022 [6 favorites]

caution live frogs: Trying hard to be the optimist. But, as a Minneapolis resident, I saw the impact of the George Floyd rulings and it was a resounding nothing.

From far away and not paying very much attention, it does seem like prosecutors are a bit more likely to charge officers and juries are a bit more likely to convict them since the George Floyd protests. The two cases I've seen from Minneapolis recently are a manslaughter conviction for the shooting of Daunte Wright and a vehicular homicide charge for the killer of Leneal Frazier (no trial yet as far as I can find).

So it's... something? It feels like a mood has changed among prosecutors, at least, knowing that they'll be backed up by a significant percentage of the community if they bring charges for the most egregious acts by officers.

But, like I say, I'm looking at this from far away and am probably missing a lot.
posted by clawsoon at 4:35 PM on January 7, 2022 [4 favorites]

Check out this video of a press conference held by Florida state prosecutor Katherine Fernandez Rundle last August, announcing prosecution of 5 Miami Beach officers who beat a suspect and a bystander who was filming the incident. 21+ officers responded.

She describes what happened, then plays the videos which are the basis of the prosecution, starting, stopping and rewinding, and emphasizing tcrucial frames, naming the officers who are being charged as they appear and commit their crimes.

It’s hard to see something like this from a prosecutor in a Southern state, which would have been unthinkable a few years ago, and not have hope a new era may be at hand.
posted by jamjam at 5:31 PM on January 7, 2022 [19 favorites]

Its hard to watch that Miami video, jamjam. Not just the injustice and violence meted out to the bystander, but the number of officers prepared to turn their backs while the offenses are committed. They, and the others who participated and did not later report the incident to IA (as I understand at least one officer did), are equally guilty.
posted by bigZLiLk at 8:00 PM on January 7, 2022 [3 favorites]

Felony murder is a horrendous idea

i disagree. for those who dont know, the idea behind felony murder is that if you intend to commit and do commit (or aid and abet) a felony like robbery, burglary, or kidnapping (the list depends on the state), and a death directly results from that felony, you are liable for murder as though you intended to kill, even if the prosecution cant prove you intended to kill. the classic case is a robbery gone wrong where the cashier fights back and your gun goes off and kills him.

or, here, where you meant to racially target and falsely imprison the victim, and the gun discharged in the struggle between your codefendant and the victim. that is, YOU thought your codefendant shooter was just going to do the non-murder felony (false imprisonment) that you intended, but he ended up firing.

to hold the codef liable for murder in this case is not inherently unjust or unfair. it is only unjust in a society that for racist reasons kept and keeps people of color in a cycle of poverty where they disproportionately are on the hook for robbery and burglary. the answer is to fix the economic racism. but the criminal justice principle of holding people accountable for murder if their reckless violent felony causes death is sound and just.

if we use race as a proxy to get rid of things like the felony murder doctrine, then the racist non-shooters in cases like this dont get convicted of murder.

where i live, in california, the legislature has radically limited the felony murder doctrine and the two non-shooters here would've likely gotten off with a false imprisonment conviction because that felony is not a so-called "enumerated offense" i.e., doesnt count as a crime that can be used under this doctrine. i'm glad this crime didnt happen in california.
posted by wibari at 10:19 PM on January 7, 2022 [2 favorites]

Shackled killers of Ahmaud Arbery are led out of court to begin their life sentences as heavily-armed New Black Panthers stand guard outside the Georgia courthouse; Jennifer Smith & Harriet Alexander, Daily Mail, 08 Jan 2022 [photos in the article]:

…During the sentencing hearing, heavily-armed members of the New Black Panther Party gathered outside, raising their fists in a show of support for the Arbery family. Members of the black nationalist group, which is also anti-white and anti-Semitic, also congregated outside the courthouse during closing arguments, leading the defense lawyers to call for a mistrial and accuse them of intimidation.

Along with banners showing Ahmaud Arbery's face, the group also carried black and white coffins with mannequins inside them that feature the names of black men killed by police, such as George Floyd and Trayvon Martin.

The NBPP was founded in 1989 and is designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center [*]. The group is not affiliated with the original Black Panthers from the 1960s, and members of the original Panthers have accused the NBPP of the misappropriation of their name, both in public statements and in legal action.

*SPLC > Extremist Files > Groups > New Black Panther Party.
posted by cenoxo at 2:29 AM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]

The way felony murder most often goes in Georgia is that the actually murderer takes a plea deal to avoid the death penalty, and maybe even to get the possibility of parole, and turns evidence on the other people who were there, who are charged with felony murder. They choose to go to trial because taking a plea and getting life in prison without parole for, for example, being part of an armed robbery when you didn't actually murder someone, sounds unjust.

At the actual trial, the actual murderer testifies against the non-murderer, and the jury convicts the person who didn't commit murder on the felony murder charge. In that case, the actual murderer ends up with life (maybe with the possibility of parole) while the other person who was there but didn't murder anyone ends up with life without parole or even death, depending on the jurisdiction.

Roddy Bryan and Greg McMichael were convicted on multiple charges. Without the felony murder charges, they still would have spent a long time in prison for all their other charges. To me, the convictions and sentences are justice for Ahmaud. To me, the fact that this ever came to trial remains extraordinary. I honor the work of the judge and jury here. And they still face federal hate crimes charges (Georgia finally passed our first ever hate crimes law after Ahmaud's murder, so there were no possible state hate crimes charge).

But to me, the fact that this one time these charges were used against white supremacists does not justify all the times these charges have been used by our white supremacist state to lock up so many young Black men for their entire lives for simply being present when someone else committed murder. I believe in reforming our entire criminal justice system, period.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:00 AM on January 8, 2022 [10 favorites]

cenoxo, what is the point of sharing that Daily Mail article? It's pretty clear the intention of the article is to stir up racial fear and bigotry.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 5:52 AM on January 8, 2022 [4 favorites]

Yeah, the NBP are known antisemites and horrible and no one wants them around anywhere, but there's not much anyone can do about them. They certainly have nothing to do with Ahmaud's family or the many people who supported them in getting justice for him.
posted by hydropsyche at 6:13 AM on January 8, 2022 [5 favorites]

First of all, this is not an attempt to portray bothsidesism, or to deny anyone their right to free speech or expression. Second, it’s true that the Daily Mail is mostly a scandal sheet looking for eyeballs, but they occasionally publish newsworthy photographs that other news sources don’t.

After seeing uninvited, openly armed white extremists showing up at public events to presumably ‘protect democracy’, here are uninvited, openly armed black extremists showing up at a highly publicized trial to presumably protect Ahmaud’s family and supporters. I just hope these polarized groups don’t show up at the same time and place (with itchy trigger fingers) looking for a fight.
posted by cenoxo at 7:39 AM on January 8, 2022

I appreciated you posting the story cenoxo. I've heard previous reporting about the murderers' defense team trying to claim jury intimidation because they were mad about who was showing up at the trial. (Hideously, the supposed problem the attorney articulated in court was "Black pastors".) It's helpful to understand that at least some of those folks showing up at the courthouse are perceived as threatening by a larger group of people than just the murderers.

I also think it's useful as a way of keeping tabs on growing extremism in America. I'm very worried about the armed and violent white supremicist groups attacking our people and our government; there's a lot of them and they are being protected by the Republican party. But it's also not great (nor surprising) that there's visibly armed groups of opposition.

One of the hopeful things about the BLM protests in summer 2020 is that they did not escalate more into violence. A lot of those protestors were angry, had every right to be angry, and I fear for this country if that anger is not addressed in ways that bring justice.

The Daily Mail is a shitty source, but a quick search doesn't turn up a lot of good alternatives. Here's a story attributed to Atlanta Black Star about the Black pastor controversy that also mentions the NBP. (I'm not familiar with the newspaper.)
posted by Nelson at 7:59 AM on January 8, 2022

Direct link to the Atlanta Black Star* story from November 24, 2021.

*WP reference
posted by cenoxo at 10:55 AM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]

I am grateful the links were posted to see both the closing arguments and the judges sentencing. I felt relieved and lifted to see our justice system work, even though it didn't work on the local level, and that there it was flagrantly in violation of the spirit of the law, and our nations laws. I was awed by the judge and his conduct, his decency and consideration. The prosecuter was excellent, and slow burn passionate about her case. Everyone got a fair trial, they were privileged fuck-ups and I know of a lot of people like them.
posted by Oyéah at 6:23 PM on January 8, 2022 [1 favorite]

The Atlanta Black Star is a fine news source. The Atlanta Journal Constitution had extensive coverage throughout the trial, including the black pastors comments. Our local NPR affiliate WABE has a podcast called Buried Truths, primarily about Civil Rights cold cases, that devoted its most recent season to the murder of Ahmaud Arbery, including good coverage of the trial.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:51 AM on January 9, 2022 [2 favorites]