The Queen Has COVID
February 20, 2022 7:04 AM Subscribe
As reported by the BBC: After coming into contact with her oldest son Charles, who tested positive for COVID-19 a few days after seeing Queen Elizabeth.
Have the tabs started the “Charles infects Queen to hasten his ascension to the crown” stories yet?
posted by Thorzdad at 7:31 AM on February 20, 2022 [28 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 7:31 AM on February 20, 2022 [28 favorites]
For purely selfish reasons, I wish her a swift recovery; I have tickets to a gig in London in early March, and if it's cancelled along with all other entertainment due to the national period of mourning, that will suck.
Beyond purely selfish reasons: I'm not a monarchist, though Elizabeth II has been by all accounts the least-worst candidate for the job, and her son (whose picture could illustrate the dictionary entry on the Dunning-Kruger Effect) will almost certainly be far worse, using his high position and many decades of experience of being deferred to to ham-handedly intervene in things he believes he understands better than he does. Which will probably jibe nicely with the post-Brexit Tories' culture war: Palladian colonnades on all official buildings and homeopathic medicine on what's left of the NHS will provide a suitable rallying point for mandatory national pride. The upside is that, given his advanced age, his reign will last at most a few decades, and also may hasten sentiment for abolishing or severely downsizing the monarchy.
posted by acb at 7:34 AM on February 20, 2022 [26 favorites]
Beyond purely selfish reasons: I'm not a monarchist, though Elizabeth II has been by all accounts the least-worst candidate for the job, and her son (whose picture could illustrate the dictionary entry on the Dunning-Kruger Effect) will almost certainly be far worse, using his high position and many decades of experience of being deferred to to ham-handedly intervene in things he believes he understands better than he does. Which will probably jibe nicely with the post-Brexit Tories' culture war: Palladian colonnades on all official buildings and homeopathic medicine on what's left of the NHS will provide a suitable rallying point for mandatory national pride. The upside is that, given his advanced age, his reign will last at most a few decades, and also may hasten sentiment for abolishing or severely downsizing the monarchy.
posted by acb at 7:34 AM on February 20, 2022 [26 favorites]
As far as I can tell, Buck House has known about this for a few days at least (after Charles tested positive) and seem to have kept the lid on it until the Queen was feeling better/improving. I imagine she'll be fine, but what a shitty year she's had, poor woman.
posted by fight or flight at 7:37 AM on February 20, 2022 [31 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 7:37 AM on February 20, 2022 [31 favorites]
And no one was British anymore.
posted by parmanparman at 7:39 AM on February 20, 2022
posted by parmanparman at 7:39 AM on February 20, 2022
First her prime minister lies to her, as ajucated by Scotland's top court, then her favoutite son gets pushback for sowing his oats, and from the colonies of all places, and now her heir, of all people, bestows upon her the one blessing of the age she has successfully been able to avoid all this time, and this just before she goes platinum. One might think her position was not, after all, ordained by god.
It's all rather disquieting.
/s ... in case it wasn't clear
posted by labberdasher at 7:41 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's all rather disquieting.
/s ... in case it wasn't clear
posted by labberdasher at 7:41 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
"...if it's cancelled along with all other entertainment due to the national period of mourning..."
Just a reminder that it is treason to compass or imagine the death of the sovereign.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:49 AM on February 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Just a reminder that it is treason to compass or imagine the death of the sovereign.
posted by Capt. Renault at 7:49 AM on February 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Just a reminder that it is treason to compass or imagine the death of the sovereign.
Don't be fatuous, there's no lèse-majesté laws in the UK, or any of the other countries where this woman is — for entirely disgraceful reasons — the ceremonial head of state.
posted by ambrosen at 7:55 AM on February 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
Don't be fatuous, there's no lèse-majesté laws in the UK, or any of the other countries where this woman is — for entirely disgraceful reasons — the ceremonial head of state.
posted by ambrosen at 7:55 AM on February 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
I’m both vaguely horrified and awed at the implicit concern about whether a 95 year old can do her job well enough while having Covid.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:56 AM on February 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 7:56 AM on February 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
Cor(gi)rona virus.
posted by Paul Slade at 7:59 AM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 7:59 AM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Having survived the AIDS crisis (so far) I'm uncomfortable with the discourse around Covid and "who infected whom". The interest in who infected the Queen is certainly a natural human impulse. But it is connected to much more problematic ideas like ascribing moral weight to disease or blame to being sick.
OTOH Covid isn't like AIDS because it's so easily transmitted very casually just by being in close proximity. Folks who get infected by someone else generally have a lot less agency or choice in being exposed. That puts a higher moral burden on people who know they have Covid to avoid infecting others. To take another high profile example, Trump went to several public political functions including a debate with Biden knowing he had Covid and taking no precautions. That's unconscionable.
So it's complicated. But I'm pretty sure there are more interesting angles on the elderly Queen being sick than "OMG did her son infect her with the Rona?!"
posted by Nelson at 8:04 AM on February 20, 2022 [55 favorites]
OTOH Covid isn't like AIDS because it's so easily transmitted very casually just by being in close proximity. Folks who get infected by someone else generally have a lot less agency or choice in being exposed. That puts a higher moral burden on people who know they have Covid to avoid infecting others. To take another high profile example, Trump went to several public political functions including a debate with Biden knowing he had Covid and taking no precautions. That's unconscionable.
So it's complicated. But I'm pretty sure there are more interesting angles on the elderly Queen being sick than "OMG did her son infect her with the Rona?!"
posted by Nelson at 8:04 AM on February 20, 2022 [55 favorites]
At the end of the day, viruses don't care who you are.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:13 AM on February 20, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:13 AM on February 20, 2022 [17 favorites]
@Nelson yup I agree. I think it's interesting that they laid out a time-line of COVID infections for those close to the Queen. I mean the lady is very old and she's still working with quite a few people, it seems almost impossible to trace is back to one individual (her son) when she does come into contact with lots and lots of people. I hope she fares well, and I especially hope she's able to continue to do what she can, punitively, to Andrew. Not sure what that would look like when Charles takes over, for instance.
posted by erattacorrige at 8:32 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by erattacorrige at 8:32 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Having survived the AIDS crisis (so far) I'm uncomfortable with the discourse around Covid and "who infected whom". The interest in who infected the Queen is certainly a natural human impulse. But it is connected to much more problematic ideas like ascribing moral weight to disease or blame to being sick.
The thing about using the AIDS crisis as a measuring stick for the Covid-19 crisis is that:
1. The two aren't on the same scale in the slightest. Covid-19 has killed more people in the country in which I live (USA) in two years than AIDS has in the past forty.
2. Knowing who caught what from whom without judgment is a survival mechanism that communities that have been through the HIV era tend to recognize as important. When my ex-boyfriend caught Covid-19 at Lazy Bear Week 2021 pretty much everyone who might have been infected was contacted immediately and they quickly established the chain of infection with no hard feelings because as a community gay men are well-experienced at contact tracing on a level outsiders sometimes have a hard time understanding.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:32 AM on February 20, 2022 [69 favorites]
The thing about using the AIDS crisis as a measuring stick for the Covid-19 crisis is that:
1. The two aren't on the same scale in the slightest. Covid-19 has killed more people in the country in which I live (USA) in two years than AIDS has in the past forty.
2. Knowing who caught what from whom without judgment is a survival mechanism that communities that have been through the HIV era tend to recognize as important. When my ex-boyfriend caught Covid-19 at Lazy Bear Week 2021 pretty much everyone who might have been infected was contacted immediately and they quickly established the chain of infection with no hard feelings because as a community gay men are well-experienced at contact tracing on a level outsiders sometimes have a hard time understanding.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 8:32 AM on February 20, 2022 [69 favorites]
Well, good luck to her.
posted by freakazoid at 8:35 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by freakazoid at 8:35 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
HIV infection is a different story today than it was thirty years ago. In our small gay chat, we asked if straight people would still be allowed to donate blood.
Again, viruses don't particularly care who you are. To a virus program, it's all just a numbers game, and the Queen is just another statistic.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:35 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Again, viruses don't particularly care who you are. To a virus program, it's all just a numbers game, and the Queen is just another statistic.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:35 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Her job is essentially not rocking the boat. If one wanted to go full grimdark, installing an unconscious monarch's body in a permanent life support system, Warhammer 4K-style, would not impair them from carrying out her constitutional duties, other than public appearances (which could be deepfaked).
posted by acb at 8:35 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by acb at 8:35 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Okay, so as an ignorant American, I've been seeing a lot of Twitter commentary insinuating that the Queen has actually been dead for several months, based on her having had to go to a country house due to "back problems" or something like that and then announcing that Camilla could be queen and Charles immediately talking about what a small, respectful coronation ceremony he'd throw for himself... and I cannot tell for the life of me if this is just Twitter japery or if there's actually something to it.
posted by saladin at 8:40 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by saladin at 8:40 AM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's a joke that got out of hand. Even if it were true, does it really matter?
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:53 AM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:53 AM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Suggesting that the Queen has been dead for a while is just conspiracy theory stuff. There is, famously, a whole protocol that gets triggered when she dies and there is no particular upside to covering it up - but tons of downsides when the truth eventually comes out.
The simplest explanation is that the frail 95 year old isn't doing public appearances and she was never very consistent with her twitch streaming schedule at the best of times.
posted by allegedly at 8:54 AM on February 20, 2022 [29 favorites]
The simplest explanation is that the frail 95 year old isn't doing public appearances and she was never very consistent with her twitch streaming schedule at the best of times.
posted by allegedly at 8:54 AM on February 20, 2022 [29 favorites]
Let's not give oxygen to conspiracy theories that require the active involvement, complicity, and full knowledge of tens of thousands of people.
posted by tclark at 8:55 AM on February 20, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by tclark at 8:55 AM on February 20, 2022 [19 favorites]
It's jokes. It started with the queen "entering a new phase of her reign" back in November, in which she'd be seen less in public. At her age it's both understandable, but also tends to spark the conspiratorial "show us proof of life" trains of thought.
The real fuel on the flames was the apparent approval of Camilla being queen. Would Elizabeth really ever say that? She must be dead.
She has since been seen in public at least once; at this point the "Queen's dead" party is over...for now.
posted by explosion at 8:56 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
The real fuel on the flames was the apparent approval of Camilla being queen. Would Elizabeth really ever say that? She must be dead.
She has since been seen in public at least once; at this point the "Queen's dead" party is over...for now.
posted by explosion at 8:56 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
She has since been seen in public at least once; at this point the "Queen's dead" party is over...for now.Spoken like someone who has not seen "Weekend at Bernie's".
posted by Galaxor Nebulon at 9:01 AM on February 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
The queen is dead more exciting than the queen is being propped up in at best semi conscious state with as much medical tech as we can muster.
posted by Ferreous at 9:03 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Ferreous at 9:03 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
There is occasional talk of the Queen abdicating which (I confidently predict) isn't going to happen, at least until some time after late May 2024, at which point she will have beaten Louis XIV's record of the longest reign (72 years, 110 days). She's a competitive woman and her mother lived to 101.
posted by Hogshead at 9:03 AM on February 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
posted by Hogshead at 9:03 AM on February 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
The principle to apply here (and in the case of any conspiracy theory) is Sagan's Standard: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". If you say you saw a horse this morning, I'd have no reason to disbelieve you as it's well-established that horses exist. If you said you saw a unicorn, I'd be far more doubtful and require extraordinary evidence of your claim before I believed it. Ask yourself: do those Twitter claims sound more like a unicorn or a horse to you?
posted by Paul Slade at 9:04 AM on February 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 9:04 AM on February 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Trust me, the Queen is still alive. When she sheds the limitations of mortal flesh, breaches all known forms of containment and the many, many psychic egg sacs she has laid around the world over the decades all begin to hatch at once... you'll know. We'll all know.
posted by delfin at 9:05 AM on February 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by delfin at 9:05 AM on February 20, 2022 [25 favorites]
Y'know, Q started out as a joke, too. Let's just say I have a lot less patience with conspiracy-theory "jokes" than I used to.
posted by tclark at 9:06 AM on February 20, 2022 [63 favorites]
posted by tclark at 9:06 AM on February 20, 2022 [63 favorites]
I'm just mad that the idiots bleating in 2020 about how it's not a real disease and nobody's going to get it anyway don't have to answer for ok the fucking queen of england has it, can you please just say you were wrong so I can move on.
posted by bleep at 9:07 AM on February 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by bleep at 9:07 AM on February 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
I feel like if enough people have passed it along that it gets all the way up to the safest, most protected people in the world, that's a lot of disease.
posted by bleep at 9:12 AM on February 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
posted by bleep at 9:12 AM on February 20, 2022 [23 favorites]
Spoken like someone who has not seen "Weekend at Bernie's".
Weekend at Brenda's.
posted by acb at 9:15 AM on February 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
Weekend at Brenda's.
posted by acb at 9:15 AM on February 20, 2022 [10 favorites]
If she beats it, fair play to the Queen.
posted by lock robster at 9:25 AM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by lock robster at 9:25 AM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
She'll be fine, they probably gave her Paxlovid and/or Molnupiravir and a bunch of other advanced therapies already, right?
posted by polymodus at 9:29 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by polymodus at 9:29 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Her job is essentially not rocking the boat. If one wanted to go full grimdark, installing an unconscious monarch's body in a permanent life support system, Warhammer 4K-style, would not impair them from carrying out her constitutional duties, other than public appearances (which could be deepfaked).
I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:31 AM on February 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:31 AM on February 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
It seems one source of the rumours of the Queen's death are from a QAnon source who has declared herself Queen of the Kingdom [sic] and Republic [sic] of Canada, and who asserts that she had Elizabeth II executed in 2021 for "crimes against humanity." The new queen also tells us that the US military answers to her and will shortly be reinstalling Trump (of course). She also mentions several other military forces at her command, all of which are highly seekrit if not entirely imaginary.
It will come as no surprise perhaps, that she put in an appearance on Parliament Hill a couple of weeks back and that she has declared that any medical personnel administering the COVID-19 vaccine will be put to death by military tribunals. So far her actions have been limited to a straggle of followers turning up at hospitals, police stations and, oddly, coffee shops handing out cease and desist orders for masking, etc. These cease and desist orders -- which have very very few spelling errors -- are available as a downloadable PDF from her website.
A friend of mine has been following her rise, such as it is, and his assessment: "As far as I can tell, it truly seems to be a case of leadership being declared ex nihilo by virtue of simply being willing to say the craziest possible thing and sticking with it."
The guy is a clinical psychiatrist, so for him to call someone's actions "crazy" might give you a sense of the state of her mental equilibrium.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:32 AM on February 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
It will come as no surprise perhaps, that she put in an appearance on Parliament Hill a couple of weeks back and that she has declared that any medical personnel administering the COVID-19 vaccine will be put to death by military tribunals. So far her actions have been limited to a straggle of followers turning up at hospitals, police stations and, oddly, coffee shops handing out cease and desist orders for masking, etc. These cease and desist orders -- which have very very few spelling errors -- are available as a downloadable PDF from her website.
A friend of mine has been following her rise, such as it is, and his assessment: "As far as I can tell, it truly seems to be a case of leadership being declared ex nihilo by virtue of simply being willing to say the craziest possible thing and sticking with it."
The guy is a clinical psychiatrist, so for him to call someone's actions "crazy" might give you a sense of the state of her mental equilibrium.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:32 AM on February 20, 2022 [22 favorites]
I don't think you really need a single source for rumors of death when you have an extremely old figurehead who has been cloistered away from the public for an extended period of time during a pandemic. Yes, there's going to be nuts spreading things, but the idea that only far out there people are the only source of the idea is a bit much.
posted by Ferreous at 9:42 AM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 9:42 AM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
my mom died last year, almost ninety. She was what many would call progressive in a lot of ways but she still had a great fondness for the Queen. Which when I asked her about it very near the end of her life, she said, "She was my hero when I was a little girl. Five years older than me and taking on the burdens of her position with grace and poise. And she's never really let me down." Or words to that effect.
On behalf of my mom -- God Save The Queen. All three versions.
posted by philip-random at 9:47 AM on February 20, 2022 [45 favorites]
On behalf of my mom -- God Save The Queen. All three versions.
posted by philip-random at 9:47 AM on February 20, 2022 [45 favorites]
It seems one source of the rumours of the Queen's death are from a QAnon source who has declared herself Queen of the Kingdom [sic] and Republic [sic] of Canada,
When Elizabeth II finally shuffles off her mortal coil, I can foresee a lot of the remaining commonwealth countries switching to a republic. Prince Charles doesn't he the gravitas the Elizabeth II has to keep it all together.
posted by jmauro at 9:53 AM on February 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
When Elizabeth II finally shuffles off her mortal coil, I can foresee a lot of the remaining commonwealth countries switching to a republic. Prince Charles doesn't he the gravitas the Elizabeth II has to keep it all together.
posted by jmauro at 9:53 AM on February 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
My dad at 83 (today 84!) had it and was vaxed and boosted. Hardest part was finding a dialysis center that had space in their covid-positive ward. Had to spend a week in the hospital before a space freed up. I'm still trying to make it out to see him as soon as possible. It's quite likely the Queen will be fine.
posted by Catblack at 10:04 AM on February 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Catblack at 10:04 AM on February 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
On one hand, get well soon you old rich bastards. It sucks to be sick.
On the other hand, it'd make a great "Wierd Al does The Smiths" album.
posted by not_on_display at 10:18 AM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, it'd make a great "Wierd Al does The Smiths" album.
posted by not_on_display at 10:18 AM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
which have very very few spelling errors
That's some wonderful understatement there.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:33 AM on February 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
That's some wonderful understatement there.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:33 AM on February 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Note that Boris Johnson met with the Queen around the 10th of February and was photographed with her unmasked (albeit outdoors).
Not sure which of the two—Charles or Johnson—are more likely to have infected her. (Could be someone else, but those two have form for ignoring masking/distancing requirements and infecting other people.)
posted by cstross at 10:39 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Not sure which of the two—Charles or Johnson—are more likely to have infected her. (Could be someone else, but those two have form for ignoring masking/distancing requirements and infecting other people.)
posted by cstross at 10:39 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Let's just say I have a lot less patience with conspiracy-theory "jokes" than I used to.
Yeah, it would be cool in general if people stopped giving any air to conspiracy theories originating with a known antisemite and Holocaust denier, even as a joke.
posted by fight or flight at 10:40 AM on February 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
Yeah, it would be cool in general if people stopped giving any air to conspiracy theories originating with a known antisemite and Holocaust denier, even as a joke.
posted by fight or flight at 10:40 AM on February 20, 2022 [24 favorites]
In fairness, after that bit about the Queen consenting to Camilla being named queen, a LOT of folks on Twitter made the "oh she's definitely dead" joke.
Some jokes are just so obvious that they're born multiple times independently.
posted by explosion at 10:44 AM on February 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
Some jokes are just so obvious that they're born multiple times independently.
posted by explosion at 10:44 AM on February 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
When QEII want into reduced public activity mode, there were some amusing jokes about her hibernation status; I'm too lazy to find the memes. When she dies, it will be a constitutional event, and it seems awfully unlikely that the very many people who have knowledge of her whereabouts, health and life in general would conspire to hide it.
At 95, Covid is a health crisis, especially for a woman grieving the death of her spouse last April. She's a woman who's worked hard and put in a lot of effort to do a good job, and I respect that, though, of course, she has extraordinary privilege and wealth, and monarchy is just wrongity wrong. I'm not averse to her outliving her son, who personifies privilege colossally, except that it would be awfully painful for her. She's a person and a mother, after all. Charles having a very short reign, ideally before Camilla is installed with a fancier title seems the best outcome.
I hope William is learning how not to be awful.
posted by theora55 at 10:58 AM on February 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
At 95, Covid is a health crisis, especially for a woman grieving the death of her spouse last April. She's a woman who's worked hard and put in a lot of effort to do a good job, and I respect that, though, of course, she has extraordinary privilege and wealth, and monarchy is just wrongity wrong. I'm not averse to her outliving her son, who personifies privilege colossally, except that it would be awfully painful for her. She's a person and a mother, after all. Charles having a very short reign, ideally before Camilla is installed with a fancier title seems the best outcome.
I hope William is learning how not to be awful.
posted by theora55 at 10:58 AM on February 20, 2022 [13 favorites]
Yeah, the popularization of the Illuminati started as satire and... Look where it got us
posted by erattacorrige at 11:03 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by erattacorrige at 11:03 AM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
its just the flu **rolls eyes**
posted by robbyrobs at 11:10 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by robbyrobs at 11:10 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
“The Millions Of People Stuck In Pandemic Limbo” :
That makes at least 7 million immunocompromised people—a number that’s already larger than the populations of 36 states, without even including the millions more who have diseases that also hamper immunity, such as AIDS and at least 450 genetic disorders.”
And the people running the pandemic response are perfectly fine with throwing 7 million people under the bus.
My. God.
Someone, PLEASE, PLEASE, wake me up from this nightmare.
posted by robbyrobs at 11:11 AM on February 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
That makes at least 7 million immunocompromised people—a number that’s already larger than the populations of 36 states, without even including the millions more who have diseases that also hamper immunity, such as AIDS and at least 450 genetic disorders.”
And the people running the pandemic response are perfectly fine with throwing 7 million people under the bus.
My. God.
Someone, PLEASE, PLEASE, wake me up from this nightmare.
posted by robbyrobs at 11:11 AM on February 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
We'll know when the robot drone ravens fly out of the Tower.
posted by ocschwar at 11:11 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ocschwar at 11:11 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I hope William is learning how not to be awful.
unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence in favor of this?
posted by supermedusa at 11:12 AM on February 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of evidence in favor of this?
posted by supermedusa at 11:12 AM on February 20, 2022 [6 favorites]
The queen is dead more exciting than the queen is being propped up in at best semi conscious state with as much medical tech as we can muster
Bands often go soft on their reunion albums.
I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne.
Mayor Bosco was elevated to international fame by British rag The Daily Star, so, y'know...it's possible the subjects would recognize its authority.
posted by rhizome at 11:12 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Bands often go soft on their reunion albums.
I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne.
Mayor Bosco was elevated to international fame by British rag The Daily Star, so, y'know...it's possible the subjects would recognize its authority.
posted by rhizome at 11:12 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I mostly want her to survive beyond Johnson's reign of incompetent terror as he will find a way to make her death about him or as a way to deflect from whatever scandal he's currently involved/responsible for.
posted by slimepuppy at 11:14 AM on February 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by slimepuppy at 11:14 AM on February 20, 2022 [8 favorites]
good read especially regarding the British 'Gods' They were oppressors, but they were treated as gods
posted by robbyrobs at 11:27 AM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by robbyrobs at 11:27 AM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
quite!
posted by clavdivs at 11:38 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 11:38 AM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
her favoutite [sic]son gets pushback for sowing his oats
How about maybe we don’t
Make tone-deaf jokes about child rape?
posted by I will not be Heiled at 11:45 AM on February 20, 2022 [34 favorites]
How about maybe we don’t
Make tone-deaf jokes about child rape?
posted by I will not be Heiled at 11:45 AM on February 20, 2022 [34 favorites]
That was an actual typo, no?
posted by mochapickle at 12:06 PM on February 20, 2022
posted by mochapickle at 12:06 PM on February 20, 2022
I will say the "oh they'll give her some medicine I'm sure she'll be fine" is some weird rosy optimism. There's a distinct sense that for a lot of people her dying isn't a realistic outcome of this scenario.
posted by Ferreous at 12:10 PM on February 20, 2022
posted by Ferreous at 12:10 PM on February 20, 2022
As far as I'm concerned, the very least she could have done is to lay her role on the line and not accept the prime minister lying to her. After that, I don't consider the royal institution to have any function anymore. I used to defend the system, saying that the queen/king served as a backstop tp keep things sane, with someone who did not actively seek power wielding it. But now, she has demoted herself and her successors to mere figureheads. Very, very expensive figureheads.
posted by labberdasher at 12:40 PM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by labberdasher at 12:40 PM on February 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
Whenever she does die it's going to be the ultimate "good day to bury bad news" for whoever's then in power. The official government notice that winds up buried at the bottom of page 94 next morning is going to be a doozie.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:42 PM on February 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 12:42 PM on February 20, 2022 [11 favorites]
Let's not give oxygen to conspiracy theories that require the active involvement, complicity, and full knowledge of tens of thousands of people.
Um, IOKIYAR, amirite?
posted by y2karl at 1:32 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Um, IOKIYAR, amirite?
posted by y2karl at 1:32 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Besides, there's something inherently funny about the existence of a constitutional role modelled on insect biology.
posted by acb at 1:45 PM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 1:45 PM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I assume at some point Harry and Meghan will move to the Netherlands and then invade to take the crown at the invitation of Parliament and the Lords. It is that or Keir Starmer becomes the new Lord Protector after a Parliamentary rebellion against Charles 3.
posted by interogative mood at 2:22 PM on February 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
posted by interogative mood at 2:22 PM on February 20, 2022 [14 favorites]
Today, I learned that Her Majesty's realms are Antigua and Barbuda; the Commonwealth of Australia; Bahamas; Belize; Canada; Grenada; Jamaica; New Zealand; the Independent State of Papua New Guinea; the Federation of Saint Kitts and Nevis; Saint Lucia; Saint Vincent and the Grenadines; Solomon Islands; Tuvalu; and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I knew a lot of these but Tuvalu and Papua New Guinea I did not. I need to read up.
Another thing I learned today was far more monarchies of more ilks exist than I ever would have thought. So, when are people here going start snarking about Carl XVI Gustaf or, better yet, the Ngwenyama and Ndlovukati of Eswatini. I mean an absolute monarchy ruled by the King and his mom? C'mon, don't be so parochial. Expand your horizons.
posted by y2karl at 3:11 PM on February 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
Another thing I learned today was far more monarchies of more ilks exist than I ever would have thought. So, when are people here going start snarking about Carl XVI Gustaf or, better yet, the Ngwenyama and Ndlovukati of Eswatini. I mean an absolute monarchy ruled by the King and his mom? C'mon, don't be so parochial. Expand your horizons.
posted by y2karl at 3:11 PM on February 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
What I find interesting about the Queen is that she has weekly meetings with the prime minister.
So far 15 PMs starting with Winston Churchill.
That's a helluva long institutional memory there
posted by yyz at 3:35 PM on February 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
So far 15 PMs starting with Winston Churchill.
That's a helluva long institutional memory there
posted by yyz at 3:35 PM on February 20, 2022 [12 favorites]
It seems one source of the rumours of the Queen's death are from a QAnon source who has declared herself Queen of the Kingdom [sic] and Republic [sic] of Canada, and who asserts that she had Elizabeth II executed in 2021 for "crimes against humanity."
So, in other words, we're supposed to believe that the crown has passed from Queen Elizabeth II to Emperor Norton II.
(The body of Emperor Norton I just dry-heaved, spun around, shat twice and died again at the notion of being compared to this nut. Sorry, Joshua.)
posted by delfin at 4:00 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
So, in other words, we're supposed to believe that the crown has passed from Queen Elizabeth II to Emperor Norton II.
(The body of Emperor Norton I just dry-heaved, spun around, shat twice and died again at the notion of being compared to this nut. Sorry, Joshua.)
posted by delfin at 4:00 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Who's going to tell John Lydon?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:01 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 4:01 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I can foresee a lot of the remaining commonwealth countries switching to a republic.
I don't know about the other countries but here in Canada that would mean getting the unanimous consent of all the provinces and both Houses of Parliament so I don't see it changingany time soon ever short of IDK, Charles declaring war on Canada or something.
posted by Mitheral at 4:25 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't know about the other countries but here in Canada that would mean getting the unanimous consent of all the provinces and both Houses of Parliament so I don't see it changing
posted by Mitheral at 4:25 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Come now, let's not sully the good name of Norton I.
posted by acb at 4:28 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:28 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Yyz, these fictionalized meetings were the plot of the audience; it claimed that Harold Wilson was her favorite.
posted by brujita at 4:40 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by brujita at 4:40 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't know about the other countries but here in Canada that would mean getting the unanimous consent of all the provinces and both Houses of Parliament so I don't see it changing ever short of IDK, Charles declaring war on Canada or something.Oh dear.. Joke goes "poof"
posted by Nerd of the North at 4:44 PM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
I will say the "oh they'll give her some medicine I'm sure she'll be fine" is some weird rosy optimism. There's a distinct sense that for a lot of people her dying isn't a realistic outcome of this scenario.
posted by Ferreous at 3:10 PM on February 20 [+] [!]
I watch TWiV and TWiV's position is that even for the elderly which in itself is a comorbidity, most fully-vaccinated, old people actually do turn out fine and survive the infection. So it is based on science and has less to do with anyone in this thread unrealistically denying the possibility that an old person with access to state-of-the-art COVID antivirals and therapies might still die.
TWiV is great and more people should watch it, it helps cut through the news cycle b.s.
posted by polymodus at 6:34 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 3:10 PM on February 20 [+] [!]
I watch TWiV and TWiV's position is that even for the elderly which in itself is a comorbidity, most fully-vaccinated, old people actually do turn out fine and survive the infection. So it is based on science and has less to do with anyone in this thread unrealistically denying the possibility that an old person with access to state-of-the-art COVID antivirals and therapies might still die.
TWiV is great and more people should watch it, it helps cut through the news cycle b.s.
posted by polymodus at 6:34 PM on February 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I cannot tell for the life of me if this is just Twitter japery or if there's actually something to it
That's an unambiguous clue that you've already been spending a far higher proportion of your waking hours paying attention to Twitter than is in any way good for you, and that you now need to take a break from it for a while, both for the sake of your own mental health and as a strong moral obligation to everybody who cares about you.
posted by flabdablet at 7:45 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
That's an unambiguous clue that you've already been spending a far higher proportion of your waking hours paying attention to Twitter than is in any way good for you, and that you now need to take a break from it for a while, both for the sake of your own mental health and as a strong moral obligation to everybody who cares about you.
posted by flabdablet at 7:45 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't know about the other countries but here in Canada that would mean getting the unanimous consent of all the provinces and both Houses of Parliament so I don't see it changing any time soon ever short of IDK, Charles declaring war on Canada or something.
I agree with you, I can't see anybody trying to open this can of worm, and while there's a majority in favor of getting rid of the monarchy, it doesn't raise much passions.
You couple this with the fact that a bunch of treatises are have signed between the First Nations and the Crown, which we'd have to sign again? Or does that transfer automatically? That's an even bigger can of worms.
I mean, there's certainly potential there to reform the country on better foundations... but we can't even agree on whether vaccines are good or if it was a good thing to boot out the #FluTruxKlan... there's no way we can go through this at the moment.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:57 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I agree with you, I can't see anybody trying to open this can of worm, and while there's a majority in favor of getting rid of the monarchy, it doesn't raise much passions.
You couple this with the fact that a bunch of treatises are have signed between the First Nations and the Crown, which we'd have to sign again? Or does that transfer automatically? That's an even bigger can of worms.
I mean, there's certainly potential there to reform the country on better foundations... but we can't even agree on whether vaccines are good or if it was a good thing to boot out the #FluTruxKlan... there's no way we can go through this at the moment.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:57 PM on February 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
when are people here going start snarking about Carl XVI Gustaf
Nah, dude has a key to the city of Flint.
posted by clavdivs at 8:25 PM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
Nah, dude has a key to the city of Flint.
posted by clavdivs at 8:25 PM on February 20, 2022 [4 favorites]
As an Australian I used to be in favour of switching this country from a constitutional monarchy to a republic, until the day I finally understood what the monarchy is for.
I now believe that it is vital for the most important people in the world to have no function whatsoever beyond structural self-aggrandizement.
Everybody who considers themselves or their doings to be much more important than those of ordinary people is implicitly acting according to a hierarchical world view, and in any such world view, the monarchy is at the top of the social pile by definition. These people may deny that or dismiss it, but they way they act, especially their desperate though ultimately futile attempts to act classier than the monarchy, makes it perfectly clear that they believe it.
If we took the monarchy away, it would become possible for people with that particular flavour of mental illness - people who already form a disturbing majority of those who wield actual power - to have a realistic expectation of reaching the top of the social pile, which would undoubtedly cause them to focus even more of their attention on that goal than they already do. If they have other stuff to do as well - stuff that actually is important, like maintaining their current half-assed attempt to run an actual country - they'd inevitably end up performing even worse at that than they already do.
In my view it's essential for those at the very top of the social hierarchy that conservatives treat as real to spend their entire lives doing nothing of consequence. The present Queen of Australia has been performing that role with enormous dedication and competence for longer than I've been alive, and she has my full support in continuing to do so.
Besides, I want to find out whether she writes a letter of congratulation to herself when she turns 100.
posted by flabdablet at 8:28 PM on February 20, 2022 [26 favorites]
I now believe that it is vital for the most important people in the world to have no function whatsoever beyond structural self-aggrandizement.
Everybody who considers themselves or their doings to be much more important than those of ordinary people is implicitly acting according to a hierarchical world view, and in any such world view, the monarchy is at the top of the social pile by definition. These people may deny that or dismiss it, but they way they act, especially their desperate though ultimately futile attempts to act classier than the monarchy, makes it perfectly clear that they believe it.
If we took the monarchy away, it would become possible for people with that particular flavour of mental illness - people who already form a disturbing majority of those who wield actual power - to have a realistic expectation of reaching the top of the social pile, which would undoubtedly cause them to focus even more of their attention on that goal than they already do. If they have other stuff to do as well - stuff that actually is important, like maintaining their current half-assed attempt to run an actual country - they'd inevitably end up performing even worse at that than they already do.
In my view it's essential for those at the very top of the social hierarchy that conservatives treat as real to spend their entire lives doing nothing of consequence. The present Queen of Australia has been performing that role with enormous dedication and competence for longer than I've been alive, and she has my full support in continuing to do so.
Besides, I want to find out whether she writes a letter of congratulation to herself when she turns 100.
posted by flabdablet at 8:28 PM on February 20, 2022 [26 favorites]
In my view it's essential for those at the very top of the social hierarchy that conservatives treat as real to spend their entire lives doing nothing whatsoever of consequence.
Things like this remind me of what a depressingly astute philosopher Douglas Adams was.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:45 PM on February 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Things like this remind me of what a depressingly astute philosopher Douglas Adams was.
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:45 PM on February 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Honestly, there is no other person on the world stage who has the access to look a world leader in the eye and say "well, when I talked about something similar to this with X back in year Y, this is how it all ended up playing out" with such a great historical sweep. Not even Popes. She is literally irreplaceable on this planet. What the lack of her will mean to the world stage is unclear, but that has to be recognized.
posted by hippybear at 8:47 PM on February 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:47 PM on February 20, 2022 [20 favorites]
>> her favoutite [sic]son gets pushback for sowing his oats
How about maybe we don’t
Make tone-deaf jokes about child rape?
To be clear, and unsarcastic - it appears that the queen regards what Andrew did as "sowing his oats", and not child rape, as witnessed by the fact that she's bailing him out. That is what I was trying to say, sarcastically. I, personally, do not regard what Andrew did as "sowing his oats", I believe it was child rape. As a Brit, I am, not to put too fine a point on it, fucking furious that the queen is putting up 10 million USD to save Andrew's skin rather than thowing him to the dogs, metaphorically. I don't believe Andrew has that much to his own name. I don't believe anyone but the queen is sponsoring him in this action. And I believe this is worse than Boris Johnson, and worse than the Met Police, for the country. Right now I'm glad I don't live there because then I'd have to put up with people who think this particular issue is not that big of a deal. As it is, where I am, people have a more realistic and jaded view of the royal institution.
As for "tone-deaf jokes" - it's your prerogative to apply the worst interpretation to any given statement and proceed based on that, but in my opinion, you're not doing yourself a favour.
posted by labberdasher at 9:41 PM on February 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
How about maybe we don’t
Make tone-deaf jokes about child rape?
To be clear, and unsarcastic - it appears that the queen regards what Andrew did as "sowing his oats", and not child rape, as witnessed by the fact that she's bailing him out. That is what I was trying to say, sarcastically. I, personally, do not regard what Andrew did as "sowing his oats", I believe it was child rape. As a Brit, I am, not to put too fine a point on it, fucking furious that the queen is putting up 10 million USD to save Andrew's skin rather than thowing him to the dogs, metaphorically. I don't believe Andrew has that much to his own name. I don't believe anyone but the queen is sponsoring him in this action. And I believe this is worse than Boris Johnson, and worse than the Met Police, for the country. Right now I'm glad I don't live there because then I'd have to put up with people who think this particular issue is not that big of a deal. As it is, where I am, people have a more realistic and jaded view of the royal institution.
As for "tone-deaf jokes" - it's your prerogative to apply the worst interpretation to any given statement and proceed based on that, but in my opinion, you're not doing yourself a favour.
posted by labberdasher at 9:41 PM on February 20, 2022 [9 favorites]
Hey hippybear- this is why the footage of Boris treating her like a doddery grandma in a recentish "world leaders family photo" press thing was really galling.
posted by freethefeet at 10:00 PM on February 20, 2022
posted by freethefeet at 10:00 PM on February 20, 2022
Honestly, there is no other person on the world stage who has the access to look a world leader in the eye and say "well, when I talked about something similar to this with X back in year Y, this is how it all ended up playing out" with such a great historical sweep.
There's also something to be said for having a head of state who stands outside party politics and can therefore provide a symbol of the whole nation over several generations. If you doubt this, you have only to contemplate the following two words: President Thatcher.
The snag with this, of course, is that you have to be lucky enough to have a monarch who's prepared to treat the role intelligently and limit their role to one of public ceremony and occasional private advice to the Prime Minister of the day. The current Queen has been exemplary in this, but Charles looks unlikely to have half as much sense. Princess Anne might be OK, but - barring a Richard III murder spree - she's too far back in the line of succession to hope for.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:54 AM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
There's also something to be said for having a head of state who stands outside party politics and can therefore provide a symbol of the whole nation over several generations. If you doubt this, you have only to contemplate the following two words: President Thatcher.
The snag with this, of course, is that you have to be lucky enough to have a monarch who's prepared to treat the role intelligently and limit their role to one of public ceremony and occasional private advice to the Prime Minister of the day. The current Queen has been exemplary in this, but Charles looks unlikely to have half as much sense. Princess Anne might be OK, but - barring a Richard III murder spree - she's too far back in the line of succession to hope for.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:54 AM on February 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
She served in the military in WW2. She drove trucks. She is badass. She deserves a quiet peace.
posted by SPrintF at 1:49 AM on February 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by SPrintF at 1:49 AM on February 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
a Richard III murder spree
Tudor slander.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:51 AM on February 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
Tudor slander.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:51 AM on February 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
If III rhymes with spree, you must agree.
posted by flabdablet at 9:21 AM on February 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 9:21 AM on February 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
She served in the military in WW2. She drove trucks. She is badass. She deserves a quiet peace.
I agree with this, but I am not sure she wants quiet peace. And I suppose more power to her; if I'm ever a nonagenarian, it would be nice to think I'd still have the piss and vinegar required to keep doing whatever it is I wanted. That is, assuming she wants to.
posted by erattacorrige at 9:30 AM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
I agree with this, but I am not sure she wants quiet peace. And I suppose more power to her; if I'm ever a nonagenarian, it would be nice to think I'd still have the piss and vinegar required to keep doing whatever it is I wanted. That is, assuming she wants to.
posted by erattacorrige at 9:30 AM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Her job is essentially not rocking the boat. If one wanted to go full grimdark, installing an unconscious monarch's body in a permanent life support system, Warhammer 4K-style, would not impair them from carrying out her constitutional duties, other than public appearances (which could be deepfaked).
I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne.
The Queen's murderous horde of royally bred corgis has already preceded her into the afterlife as of 2018. She does have other dogs - some corgi daschund crossed ("dorgis) and an adopted corgi but the royally bred corgi line was deliberately ended. Which maybe a good thing because they were kind of viscous -savaging one of Princess Beatrice's terriers, attacking the queen and her driver. The Queen mother's dog led a lethal corgi pack on an attack of one of the Queen's corgis. Princess Anne did get revenge when her English Bull Terrier killed on of the Queen's corgis.
I kind of think the Royal Family are unfit dog owners. But I also think they are not really fit for any purpose.
Why do I know so much about Royal dogs? I am embarrassed.
posted by srboisvert at 11:34 AM on February 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne.
The Queen's murderous horde of royally bred corgis has already preceded her into the afterlife as of 2018. She does have other dogs - some corgi daschund crossed ("dorgis) and an adopted corgi but the royally bred corgi line was deliberately ended. Which maybe a good thing because they were kind of viscous -savaging one of Princess Beatrice's terriers, attacking the queen and her driver. The Queen mother's dog led a lethal corgi pack on an attack of one of the Queen's corgis. Princess Anne did get revenge when her English Bull Terrier killed on of the Queen's corgis.
I kind of think the Royal Family are unfit dog owners. But I also think they are not really fit for any purpose.
Why do I know so much about Royal dogs? I am embarrassed.
posted by srboisvert at 11:34 AM on February 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
There's also something to be said for having a head of state who stands outside party politics and can therefore provide a symbol of the whole nation over several generations. If you doubt this, you have only to contemplate the following two words: President Thatcher.
As someone who has lived in both parliamentary democracies and in America a President Thatcher would have been far less damaging to the UK than the actual Prime Minister Thatcher. Presidents are severely constrained by multiple levels of independent and sometimes actively hostile government in ways that a Prime Minister who by definition has majority parliamentary support (up until they don't) is not and the House of Lords has proven to be only a weak check on power.
There is also no evidence that Queen Elizabeth, either symbolically or actually, in any way moderated any her governments (though her Governor Generals in Canada have actively participated in political shenanigans but while in recent times it was technically on her behalf it is unclear if it was at her behest).
posted by srboisvert at 11:42 AM on February 21, 2022
As someone who has lived in both parliamentary democracies and in America a President Thatcher would have been far less damaging to the UK than the actual Prime Minister Thatcher. Presidents are severely constrained by multiple levels of independent and sometimes actively hostile government in ways that a Prime Minister who by definition has majority parliamentary support (up until they don't) is not and the House of Lords has proven to be only a weak check on power.
There is also no evidence that Queen Elizabeth, either symbolically or actually, in any way moderated any her governments (though her Governor Generals in Canada have actively participated in political shenanigans but while in recent times it was technically on her behalf it is unclear if it was at her behest).
posted by srboisvert at 11:42 AM on February 21, 2022
I kind of think the Royal Family are unfit dog owners.
What's classy when rich people do it but tacky when poor people do it?
posted by acb at 12:10 PM on February 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
What's classy when rich people do it but tacky when poor people do it?
posted by acb at 12:10 PM on February 21, 2022 [8 favorites]
Viscous corgis have oozed their way into many a heart.
posted by y2karl at 12:35 PM on February 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 12:35 PM on February 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne.
King Rolf
posted by condour75 at 1:17 PM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
King Rolf
posted by condour75 at 1:17 PM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
I read the book "Not in Front of the Corgis" and frankly, it doesn't sound like the Queen or anyone ever trains the little boogers, so they're completely obnoxious.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:02 PM on February 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:02 PM on February 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Which is ironic giving the from-the-cradle training all human members of the royal family are given as to their behavior and is appearance and the importance of all that.
posted by hippybear at 2:21 PM on February 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:21 PM on February 21, 2022 [4 favorites]
When Elizabeth II finally shuffles off her mortal coil, I can foresee a lot of the remaining commonwealth countries switching to a republic. Prince Charles doesn't he the gravitas the Elizabeth II has to keep it all together.
posted by jmauro at 9:53 AM on February 20 [5 favorites +] [!]
Like other national tragedies, a mourning period will be deemed ‘not the right time’ to change our ideological underpinnings. Already the cogs are turning to enable an assimilation of a new monarch, the gentle fade out of the ageing monarch: the repetition of ‘heirs’ photography (Elizabeth, Charles, William, George) in recent years, how the ascension will be televised and with whom in attendance, bedding down Camilla questions, amping up the majestical charms of Kate and Wills etc etc. Our era provides us with multiple tools to proclaim ‘the king is dead, long live the king’ and no republican movement will ever be blue to cut through it.
Too many institutional power structures gird the monarchy, gain from it and must promote its interests - its presence is a much bigger signifier than who in particular is on the throne.
posted by honey-barbara at 3:46 PM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
I mean, given how much "actually hereditary monarchy is good" we've seen in this thread I can't imagine it's going away.
posted by Ferreous at 4:19 PM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Ferreous at 4:19 PM on February 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
On one hand, hereditary monarchy is inherently offensive (why should someone be elevated to a position of superiority from birth?). OTOH, the alternative (a republic, governed by a freely elected President) assumes a very 18th-century view of a rational populace guided by enlightened self-interest rather than a mass of psychological blind spots and cognitive delusions. And there is the small matter of some of the most pragmatically level-headed countries (the Netherlands, various Scandinavian countries) being constitutional figurehead monarchies, while the world's presidential republics tending to end up in the news for the wrong reasons.
Which suggests that a purely symbolic monarch, draped in unfathomable quantities of ceremonial splendor, may be a sort of political OutKube, distracting the majority of the power-obsessed psychopaths for long enough to keep them from causing trouble. And the rational-leftist reaction to the unfair inequality of it may be part of this (the “liberal-tears” factor), so hacks like making the monarch into a figure like the poet laureate might well weaken this effect.
If the monarch acts as a long-term institutional memory (“interesting idea, Prime Minister; did you know that Winston had some thoughts on the subject?”), than having someone who can be around for literally decades and engage with the decision-makers of the day in an impartial manner would also help; perhaps this role could be separated from Supreme Alpha Primate, though?
posted by acb at 2:03 AM on February 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
Which suggests that a purely symbolic monarch, draped in unfathomable quantities of ceremonial splendor, may be a sort of political OutKube, distracting the majority of the power-obsessed psychopaths for long enough to keep them from causing trouble. And the rational-leftist reaction to the unfair inequality of it may be part of this (the “liberal-tears” factor), so hacks like making the monarch into a figure like the poet laureate might well weaken this effect.
If the monarch acts as a long-term institutional memory (“interesting idea, Prime Minister; did you know that Winston had some thoughts on the subject?”), than having someone who can be around for literally decades and engage with the decision-makers of the day in an impartial manner would also help; perhaps this role could be separated from Supreme Alpha Primate, though?
posted by acb at 2:03 AM on February 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
'LIZZIE GETS LURGI!'
What I find interesting about the Queen is that she has weekly meetings with the prime minister.
So far 15 PMs starting with Winston Churchill.
That's a helluva long institutional memory there
posted by yyz
Honestly, there is no other person on the world stage who has the access to look a world leader in the eye and say "well, when I talked about something similar to this with X back in year Y, this is how it all ended up playing out" with such a great historical sweep. Not even Popes. She is literally irreplaceable on this planet. What the lack of her will mean to the world stage is unclear, but that has to be recognized.
posted by hippybear
Given the weekly meetings the monarch has with the PM of the day, the position of the UK in the world during her reign, and the vast length of her reign, then Her Maj may well be the most informed person in history about the serious behind the scenes play of world events.
Firmly in the republican camp myself, and always have been. But she has been pretty good, as far as monarchs go, and her death really will be the end of a major politico-cultural era.
posted by Pouteria at 3:44 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
What I find interesting about the Queen is that she has weekly meetings with the prime minister.
So far 15 PMs starting with Winston Churchill.
That's a helluva long institutional memory there
posted by yyz
Honestly, there is no other person on the world stage who has the access to look a world leader in the eye and say "well, when I talked about something similar to this with X back in year Y, this is how it all ended up playing out" with such a great historical sweep. Not even Popes. She is literally irreplaceable on this planet. What the lack of her will mean to the world stage is unclear, but that has to be recognized.
posted by hippybear
Given the weekly meetings the monarch has with the PM of the day, the position of the UK in the world during her reign, and the vast length of her reign, then Her Maj may well be the most informed person in history about the serious behind the scenes play of world events.
Firmly in the republican camp myself, and always have been. But she has been pretty good, as far as monarchs go, and her death really will be the end of a major politico-cultural era.
posted by Pouteria at 3:44 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
On one hand, hereditary monarchy ...OTOH, the alternative (a republic, governed by a freely elected President)
Europe is chock-a-block full of parliamentary democracies governed by their prime minister and cabinet who elect their mostly-figurehead presidents. Germany, Italy, Ireland, Finland and the Baltics, Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, etc.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:49 AM on February 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Europe is chock-a-block full of parliamentary democracies governed by their prime minister and cabinet who elect their mostly-figurehead presidents. Germany, Italy, Ireland, Finland and the Baltics, Czechia, Poland, Slovakia, etc.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:49 AM on February 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
But she has been pretty good, as far as monarchs go,
I guess that really depends on if and what aboriginal group you belong to.
posted by Mitheral at 5:39 AM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
I guess that really depends on if and what aboriginal group you belong to.
posted by Mitheral at 5:39 AM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
You know who's an expert who's met everyone and has lived forever? Henry Kissinger. Maybe we should make his children future advisors to American presidents. Couldn't be any worse than Erik Prince.
posted by Nelson at 6:42 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 6:42 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Kissinger was an active player in politics, and so doesn't count. The long-term institutional memory would have to be purely passive. Perhaps the monarch could be replaced with some kind of quasi-monastic order of policy wonks, forever forsworn from dabbling in the world of power and yet privy to a unique view on it?
posted by acb at 6:54 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by acb at 6:54 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Monastic order of policy wonks, you mean historians? I'm all for endowing them with lands and special super-constitutional powers. With the genealogy of PhD advisors as heredity.
posted by Nelson at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2022
posted by Nelson at 7:53 AM on February 22, 2022
Except that historians examine events after the fact; these people, like the Queen, would be privy to deliberations by those in power (and would in turn provide them with a deeper perspective).
posted by acb at 8:00 AM on February 22, 2022
posted by acb at 8:00 AM on February 22, 2022
Queen Elizabeth canceled her virtual events today, she’s still Covid-symptomatic
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:34 AM on February 22, 2022
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:34 AM on February 22, 2022
these people, like the Queen, would be privy to deliberations by those in power (and would in turn provide them with a deeper perspective).
In theory, isn't that what the Civil Service supposed to do, among other things? The top civil servant used to stick around for a while.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:42 AM on February 22, 2022
In theory, isn't that what the Civil Service supposed to do, among other things? The top civil servant used to stick around for a while.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:42 AM on February 22, 2022
(yes I know the Civil Service isn't passive at all, so they don't fulfil your requirements. it's really hard to imagine an institution that is 1) proximate to power, 2) continuous through time, and 3) doesn't develop its own institutional interests. The monarchy at least has some pretty dumb and obvious interests, eg money)
posted by BungaDunga at 8:51 AM on February 22, 2022
posted by BungaDunga at 8:51 AM on February 22, 2022
I was trying to say this with mockery (Kissinger? Come on!) but I'll say it directly. The idea some random family in the UK is somehow equipped by their genetics and vast wealth to be a useful advisor to elected governments is bonkers. Not to mention the history. The obvious interests the Royals have in preserving the status quo, or their role in imperialism, or the child raping behavior of some of them.
I'll concede there's value in having some disinterested observer with a long historical understanding of recent events as an advisor. For sure. Maybe the UK could appoint or elect someone trained and competent to that role instead of relying on luck.
(Related: I've been playing a lot of Crusader Kings 3 lately and it sure is a fun parody of the idea of hereditary dynasties.)
posted by Nelson at 8:58 AM on February 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
I'll concede there's value in having some disinterested observer with a long historical understanding of recent events as an advisor. For sure. Maybe the UK could appoint or elect someone trained and competent to that role instead of relying on luck.
(Related: I've been playing a lot of Crusader Kings 3 lately and it sure is a fun parody of the idea of hereditary dynasties.)
posted by Nelson at 8:58 AM on February 22, 2022 [6 favorites]
Given the weekly meetings the monarch has with the PM of the day, the position of the UK in the world during her reign, and the vast length of her reign, then Her Maj may well be the most informed person in history about the serious behind the scenes play of world events.
The value of her advice is often alleged, and it has a certain intuitive appeal, but has it actually been corroborated by anyone who did not have a philosophical or political incentive to claim it was valuable even if it wasn't? Has there ever even been a republican Prime Minister?
posted by jedicus at 9:22 AM on February 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
The value of her advice is often alleged, and it has a certain intuitive appeal, but has it actually been corroborated by anyone who did not have a philosophical or political incentive to claim it was valuable even if it wasn't? Has there ever even been a republican Prime Minister?
posted by jedicus at 9:22 AM on February 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Kissinger was an active player in politics, and so doesn't count. The long-term institutional memory would have to be purely passive. Perhaps the monarch could be replaced with some kind of quasi-monastic order of policy wonks, forever forsworn from dabbling in the world of power and yet privy to a unique view on it?
They're called the JASONS
posted by ocschwar at 9:35 AM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Seriously, the justification of the royals as an actual valuable institution for governance is silly as hell. Acting as though they royals are somehow entirely above the fray and don't have any goals of their own is ludicrous. Maybe they aren't overtly partisan, but they still have an angle that will sustain their own interests. Even if the current monarch has done an acceptable job of appearing neutral there's no guarantee that any successors will do so as well.
It's a tradition and if you want to support it as that at least it's honest.
posted by Ferreous at 9:54 AM on February 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
It's a tradition and if you want to support it as that at least it's honest.
posted by Ferreous at 9:54 AM on February 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
My hope is that Charles will be constitutionally unable to keep his mouth shut and will thereby hasten the end of the institution.
On the other hand, maybe the British constitutional order will just adapt to a king that actually tries to overtly wield his power and ignore it, or even capitulate to it? Before Trump & Johnson I would have thought a meddling king would blow up the monarchy, but maybe King Charles will have a constituency, I don't know.
posted by BungaDunga at 11:03 AM on February 22, 2022
On the other hand, maybe the British constitutional order will just adapt to a king that actually tries to overtly wield his power and ignore it, or even capitulate to it? Before Trump & Johnson I would have thought a meddling king would blow up the monarchy, but maybe King Charles will have a constituency, I don't know.
posted by BungaDunga at 11:03 AM on February 22, 2022
Seriously, the justification of the royals as an actual valuable institution for governance is silly as hell.
Or, to quote Irish commentator Patrick Freyne:
Or, to quote Irish commentator Patrick Freyne:
Having a monarchy next door is a little like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and has daubed their house with clown murals, displays clown dolls in each window and has an insatiable desire to hear about and discuss clown-related news stories. More specifically, for the Irish, it’s like having a neighbour who’s really into clowns and, also, your grandfather was murdered by a clown.posted by acb at 11:18 AM on February 22, 2022 [16 favorites]
"I've previously suggested simply elevating a corgi to the throne." - BungaDunga
Or, as Twain suggested, cats.
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 3:06 PM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Or, as Twain suggested, cats.
posted by Mutant Lobsters from Riverhead at 3:06 PM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
Seriously, the justification of the royals as an actual valuable institution for governance is silly as hell
Natural outcome of trying to set up a government infested with Homo sapiens for a population also similarly afflicted.
The case for monarchy can even be shown in capitalist history. Henry Ford worked his way up, where by "worked" I mean demonstrated a willingness to be union busting son of a bitch.
His son, Prince Edsel I, meanwhile, was perfectly willing to take the helm of the Ford Motor Company, but having been born into the position rather than selected for it in a process that draws out the ruthless and ambitious, he was known to be unwilling to send in the pinkertons.
When you organize human populations, silliness is a small price to pay to avoid something worse.
posted by ocschwar at 3:20 PM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
the justification of the royals as an actual valuable institution for governance is silly as hell
and that, to my way of thinking, is royalty's essential function. It's important that believers in a social hierarchy continue to see those at the very top of it spending all their time on bizarre ritualistic nonsense that makes no kind of sense and getting widely lauded for doing so.
It's impossible to be a conservative - i.e. a person who believes that dominance hierarchies are both inevitable and in need of explicit maintenance - without holding, on some level, a worldview built around the Just World delusion. Allowing delusional social climbers to reach their own social pinnacle and retain the power to make consequential decisions once they get there makes huge amounts of damage pretty much inevitable. History is littered with examples.
Of course I'm in no way claiming that the mere existence of a monarchy stops powerful madmen doing huge amounts of damage; Boris Johnson is a clear counterexample. I am saying that a Boris Johnson with access to the position of a Putin or a Bezos would be worse.
posted by flabdablet at 6:48 PM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
and that, to my way of thinking, is royalty's essential function. It's important that believers in a social hierarchy continue to see those at the very top of it spending all their time on bizarre ritualistic nonsense that makes no kind of sense and getting widely lauded for doing so.
It's impossible to be a conservative - i.e. a person who believes that dominance hierarchies are both inevitable and in need of explicit maintenance - without holding, on some level, a worldview built around the Just World delusion. Allowing delusional social climbers to reach their own social pinnacle and retain the power to make consequential decisions once they get there makes huge amounts of damage pretty much inevitable. History is littered with examples.
Of course I'm in no way claiming that the mere existence of a monarchy stops powerful madmen doing huge amounts of damage; Boris Johnson is a clear counterexample. I am saying that a Boris Johnson with access to the position of a Putin or a Bezos would be worse.
posted by flabdablet at 6:48 PM on February 22, 2022 [1 favorite]
A Misunderstanding About Queens Of The Stone Age May Have Caused Hollywood Unlocked’s Shocking (And False) Claim That Queen Elizabeth Died
posted by BungaDunga at 5:57 PM on February 23, 2022
posted by BungaDunga at 5:57 PM on February 23, 2022
The Queen's still not working today either (NYT). She did, however, talk on the phone with Boris and I hope she ripped him a new one.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:28 AM on February 24, 2022
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:28 AM on February 24, 2022
You can't rip a new arsehole in somebody made entirely of arsehole.
posted by flabdablet at 8:48 AM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 8:48 AM on February 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
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