That's not gay, what the hell is that?
March 21, 2022 5:34 PM Subscribe
"And what's funny was I was thinking, man, what's the deal? Why is no one attractive?" While maintaining personal boundaries, JaidenAnimations publicly comes out as aro-ace - aromantic, asexual [slyt] (15m) and explains what that is and how she viewed romance growing up.
That was powerful and confusing.
I feel like it convinced me of something I might not have believed before I watched it, but I don’t know how to say what that something is.
posted by jamjam at 7:23 PM on March 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I feel like it convinced me of something I might not have believed before I watched it, but I don’t know how to say what that something is.
posted by jamjam at 7:23 PM on March 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is delightful and she does an amazing job conveying complex and (societally-) discomforting realizations without getting all navel-gazey about it. Thank you!
posted by esoteric things at 7:24 PM on March 21, 2022
posted by esoteric things at 7:24 PM on March 21, 2022
I love that this really portrayed aro ace as a Something rather than as a lack of something. Our society IS so centered around romantic feelings and pairing up that it must inevitably be confusing if you just can't relate to those things, but those aren't the only things in life and just because they're important to many people doesn't mean that they should be imposed on everybody. Thanks for sharing this. I've run across Jaiden a couple of times before and love her rambly style.
posted by rikschell at 8:18 PM on March 21, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 8:18 PM on March 21, 2022 [9 favorites]
I didn't know I needed an aroace umbrella, but it seems so obvious now.
posted by Comet Bug at 10:22 PM on March 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Comet Bug at 10:22 PM on March 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
That whole process of wondering "so when's it going to happen" because all your life you've been told it will happen and if it doesn't happen, it's just because you're not giving it a chance? Very relatable.
And really, how do you prove that negative to yourself?
Seeing people younger than me grow up with these concepts and vocabulary available to them is really great. I hope this video makes them even more widely available. I don't know. It made me feel pretty good to see such an empathetic, matter-of-fact presentation of it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:39 PM on March 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
And really, how do you prove that negative to yourself?
Seeing people younger than me grow up with these concepts and vocabulary available to them is really great. I hope this video makes them even more widely available. I don't know. It made me feel pretty good to see such an empathetic, matter-of-fact presentation of it.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:39 PM on March 21, 2022 [14 favorites]
I think people can easily fall into the trap of writing off aero-aces as unfeeling robots. Jaiden neatly defuses that by pointing out that you love your friends, your family and your pets, without feeling romantic or sexual about them.
It's helpful, I think, to separate romantic and sexual feelings from love, and notice that they have more in common with a delusion, or an addictive drug. While exhilirating and enthralling, they're not necessarily good for you. They might even be the opposite.
One way of looking at aero-aces is that they're blind -- unable to sense something others can. But I think it's equally valid to think of them as free.
posted by panglos at 11:11 PM on March 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
It's helpful, I think, to separate romantic and sexual feelings from love, and notice that they have more in common with a delusion, or an addictive drug. While exhilirating and enthralling, they're not necessarily good for you. They might even be the opposite.
One way of looking at aero-aces is that they're blind -- unable to sense something others can. But I think it's equally valid to think of them as free.
posted by panglos at 11:11 PM on March 21, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ok, look, I'm not sure what to say here. I've been interested in this since I first heard it was a thing, not very long ago at all. It certainly explains some things. I think maybe this is me. I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never really felt what I thought real romantic attraction should feel. I like people well enough and I love a surprising amount of people, though not in the way others describe as romantic. I'm very confused,. But maybe just a little less.
posted by evilDoug at 11:18 PM on March 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 11:18 PM on March 21, 2022 [15 favorites]
I have no idea if/how she’s spelled it in the video, but aro-ace (not “aero” — it’s short for aromantic and doesn’t have anything to do with air!) is what I typically see elsewhere on the internet.
I thought this might be important, because this is some people’s identity. The dignity of correct spelling and all.
posted by verbminx at 11:21 PM on March 21, 2022 [18 favorites]
I thought this might be important, because this is some people’s identity. The dignity of correct spelling and all.
posted by verbminx at 11:21 PM on March 21, 2022 [18 favorites]
Thanks. Without going into detail, I've got a lot of sympathy for the trying to be normal thing.
I see the world through science fiction.... "The [Widget], the [Wadget] and Boff" by Theodore Sturgeon is good about pressure and gender roles.
_Distress_ by Greg Egan has a small amount about how defining non-universal human traits as proof of being human is a problem.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 5:24 AM on March 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
I see the world through science fiction.... "The [Widget], the [Wadget] and Boff" by Theodore Sturgeon is good about pressure and gender roles.
_Distress_ by Greg Egan has a small amount about how defining non-universal human traits as proof of being human is a problem.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 5:24 AM on March 22, 2022 [7 favorites]
Mod note: Tweaked that spelling in the post.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:20 AM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:20 AM on March 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
oh this was hilarious, i love her style of presenting things. and it rules to see a youtuber drawing FIRM boundaries around personal information and what's not our business, hell yes.
ive also been exploring this lately! ive been vibing a lot with loveless aros, who, to put my basic understanding very basically, don't connect with love in any form or concept, including platonic or familial. honestly, being an unfeeling robot would kick ass. i'm not sure it's me and i'm not sure i even completely lack romantic attraction but boy do her descriptions of kind of rotely looking around for someone to decide you have a crush on ring a lot of bells!
posted by gaybobbie at 7:36 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
ive also been exploring this lately! ive been vibing a lot with loveless aros, who, to put my basic understanding very basically, don't connect with love in any form or concept, including platonic or familial. honestly, being an unfeeling robot would kick ass. i'm not sure it's me and i'm not sure i even completely lack romantic attraction but boy do her descriptions of kind of rotely looking around for someone to decide you have a crush on ring a lot of bells!
posted by gaybobbie at 7:36 AM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
On the one hand, I don't understand this and I don't think I ever will.
On the other hand, I feel exactly this way about sports, which sometimes seems like the fixation of our entire society that I simply feel nothing about.
On the third hand, I don't need to understand someone else's experience to respect their right to live in peace, because it turns out that other peoples' lives aren't contingent on my understanding.
posted by 1adam12 at 10:29 AM on March 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
On the other hand, I feel exactly this way about sports, which sometimes seems like the fixation of our entire society that I simply feel nothing about.
On the third hand, I don't need to understand someone else's experience to respect their right to live in peace, because it turns out that other peoples' lives aren't contingent on my understanding.
posted by 1adam12 at 10:29 AM on March 22, 2022 [9 favorites]
I was blasting this in the car only yesterday. I'm sure there are people who would read it as sad or cynical but I'm firmly convinced it's pure celebration.
posted by flabdablet at 10:47 AM on March 22, 2022
posted by flabdablet at 10:47 AM on March 22, 2022
I just began watching some her some of stuff a week ago, mostly through prodding by The Algorithm, and really liked the content. Considering how much /r/196 took off with this it feels like synchronicity.
posted by charred husk at 12:12 PM on March 22, 2022
posted by charred husk at 12:12 PM on March 22, 2022
That was wonderful! Labels can be confining but they can also be so liberating. I often hear "why do you have to label yourself? Just be you!" So much easier said than done when you don't have the vocabulary to even acknowledge that you really are a bit different from most people in some really fundamental way. I thought the part about her just assuming everyone was exaggerating when they talked about romantic/sexual attraction was really illuminating in this regard. The next time I heard the "why be hung up on labels?" thing, I think I'll point them to this video.
I'm not ace but I do identify as demisexual which some people consider to be under the ace umbrella. As a guy who has sex with men, it took me a very long time to figure out people REALLY DO get turned on by encounters with strangers in a way that I fundamentally don't. I thought I was just... unskilled or something to that effect. I'm not prudish at all, so this really puzzled me. Once I encountered the concept of demisexuality I was like "oh! That's me! I can stop feeling weird about the fact that bathhouses, cruising, meeting random guys in clubs, etc, don't do it for me! I no longer have to attribute it to internalized homophobia!"
All this to say that I really did recognize aspects of my own journey in hers and I thought it was brilliantly presented
posted by treepour at 12:40 PM on March 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
I'm not ace but I do identify as demisexual which some people consider to be under the ace umbrella. As a guy who has sex with men, it took me a very long time to figure out people REALLY DO get turned on by encounters with strangers in a way that I fundamentally don't. I thought I was just... unskilled or something to that effect. I'm not prudish at all, so this really puzzled me. Once I encountered the concept of demisexuality I was like "oh! That's me! I can stop feeling weird about the fact that bathhouses, cruising, meeting random guys in clubs, etc, don't do it for me! I no longer have to attribute it to internalized homophobia!"
All this to say that I really did recognize aspects of my own journey in hers and I thought it was brilliantly presented
posted by treepour at 12:40 PM on March 22, 2022 [8 favorites]
Jaiden started showing up in my youtube feed a while back. I particularly enjoyed her mario kaizo and cooking mama speedrun videos.
* I mean, never say never, but yeah.
posted by jomato at 3:54 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
On the one hand, I don't understand this and I don't think I ever will.I don't know if this applies to you, but a lot of folks are only* attracted to people of one gender or another. I'm attracted to women. There are men that I love and that I could spend all weekend hanging out with. I can meet a man and want to become best friends with him. But I'm not interested in men romantically or sexually. I don't know if it's the same thing, but when I think of it like that the aro-ace spectrum seems easier to understand.
* I mean, never say never, but yeah.
posted by jomato at 3:54 PM on March 22, 2022 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, I feel exactly this way about sports, which sometimes seems like the fixation of our entire society that I simply feel nothing about.
This is such a great analogy! I've explained it before that it's like reading Golf Digest. The magazine assumes that as a reader you love golf, are active at golf, understand golf, and pursue golf. But if you're not a golfer, reading Golf Digest makes you feel utterly baffled and overwhelmed by the relentlessly sustained focus on it.
But going back to one of your other hands, there was a great interview with journalist Angela Chen recently about her recent book, Ace: What Asexuality Reveals About Desire, Society, and the Meaning of Sex (which I have on hold at the library). And she says:
Non-aces can deeply benefit by taking a closer look at those factors, too, and reframing their relationships in terms of not what society wants, but by what they specifically want in their own lives.
posted by mochapickle at 5:43 PM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is such a great analogy! I've explained it before that it's like reading Golf Digest. The magazine assumes that as a reader you love golf, are active at golf, understand golf, and pursue golf. But if you're not a golfer, reading Golf Digest makes you feel utterly baffled and overwhelmed by the relentlessly sustained focus on it.
But going back to one of your other hands, there was a great interview with journalist Angela Chen recently about her recent book, Ace: What Asexuality Reveals About Desire, Society, and the Meaning of Sex (which I have on hold at the library). And she says:
“I hope that ace readers see themselves here and feel understood. I hope that non-ace readers also recognize parts of themselves and gain concepts and tools to help them puzzle out their own confusions around how to be in the world. We are all still figuring it out.”And I think that's important. It took me much too long to realize I was an ace, and factors like family expectations, socialization, religion, and regionality all played a role, as well as my own fears and so many wrong assumptions. I went along with a lot of things because I simply thought that's just what people do, that's what it means to be a human and an adult. It led to a lot of unnecessary hurt and confusion for myself and people I cared about.
Non-aces can deeply benefit by taking a closer look at those factors, too, and reframing their relationships in terms of not what society wants, but by what they specifically want in their own lives.
posted by mochapickle at 5:43 PM on March 22, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is a sincere question.
Those of you who say that you're not understanding this: may I ask why it is difficult to understand? I thought she explained things exceptionally well - she does not feel, and has never felt, any kind of romantic or sexual attraction to any other person. That's just the way she's wired, no big. She also discusses how she tied herself into knots thinking that she should feel it, because our society flogs that kind of connection all over the damn place, but her own lived experience didn't match up with other people's and so it took her a while to figure out that that's what was going on.
So I'm sincerely not clear what's not being understood. I could get if someone didn't feel the same way - I'm most certainly not aro or ace (at least, I wasn't until I hit middle age, but that's a whole other story), but I still thought she explained things well enough to intellectually understand her point. (Incidentally: if some of you seek to empathize with people as part of your understanding of their lived experience, that's really commendable.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:56 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Those of you who say that you're not understanding this: may I ask why it is difficult to understand? I thought she explained things exceptionally well - she does not feel, and has never felt, any kind of romantic or sexual attraction to any other person. That's just the way she's wired, no big. She also discusses how she tied herself into knots thinking that she should feel it, because our society flogs that kind of connection all over the damn place, but her own lived experience didn't match up with other people's and so it took her a while to figure out that that's what was going on.
So I'm sincerely not clear what's not being understood. I could get if someone didn't feel the same way - I'm most certainly not aro or ace (at least, I wasn't until I hit middle age, but that's a whole other story), but I still thought she explained things well enough to intellectually understand her point. (Incidentally: if some of you seek to empathize with people as part of your understanding of their lived experience, that's really commendable.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:56 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
She actually gives the best key to understanding it: Are there people you like but feel no romantic or sexual attraction to? Now you know the feeling; just extend it to everyone.
The quirk I find endearing but a little odd is pronouncing it “aeromantic,” probably due to the proximity to the similarly-spelled “aromatic.”
posted by argybarg at 8:08 AM on March 23, 2022
The quirk I find endearing but a little odd is pronouncing it “aeromantic,” probably due to the proximity to the similarly-spelled “aromatic.”
posted by argybarg at 8:08 AM on March 23, 2022
I think it's not unusual for folks to not understand it or not see it normalized like this. Asexuality was listed as a disorder in the DSM until 2013. Within the past month, I've seen popular "wellness" coaches on Instagram saying that lack of desire is a serious but curable health problem.
Even historically here on AskMetafilter, when people have asked about longterm lack of desire, the first thing people typically suggest is to get a medical checkup and a blood panel or seek therapy. Which, sure, that can be a reason. But it's not the only reason.
posted by mochapickle at 8:51 AM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
Even historically here on AskMetafilter, when people have asked about longterm lack of desire, the first thing people typically suggest is to get a medical checkup and a blood panel or seek therapy. Which, sure, that can be a reason. But it's not the only reason.
posted by mochapickle at 8:51 AM on March 23, 2022 [2 favorites]
> I've seen popular "wellness" coaches on Instagram saying that lack of desire is a serious but curable health problem.
Thankfully, these wellness coaches sell a variety of products and/or services to fix this problem.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Thankfully, these wellness coaches sell a variety of products and/or services to fix this problem.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mochapickle: that's all true, but (speaking for myself) I would find that kind of lack of understanding more....er, understandable for someone who hadn't yet watched the video, and as such hadn't heard from the perspective of someone with this lived experience. But it seemed that the people who weren't understanding watched through the video and still said they didn't understand. So that's why I was myself confused.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2022
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:21 AM on March 23, 2022
Oh cool. The Randomlet watches Jaiden every so often, and I've enjoyed watching over their shoulder -- she's nicely accessible. I should point them to this one, and ask their thoughts afterwards.
posted by Quasirandom at 1:26 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Quasirandom at 1:26 PM on March 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I can attest to feeling broken until discovering asexuality in my 30s. Suddenly having language that described me was very freeing. I'm grey-ace, so I feel attraction only in very specific, very rare situations. If there's such a thing (and there probably is) I would be grey-aromantic too. I love that these terms are getting more widely shared and spoken about, and I hope that future generations grow up without that broken feeling.
posted by twilightlost at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by twilightlost at 2:29 PM on March 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
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