Pepsi Born in the Carolinas
April 4, 2022 10:55 PM Subscribe
The Pepsi – UNC Connection. Unfortunately for UNC, they lost the NCAA championship tonight in an incredible Kansas comeback wi. That doesn't mean they can't enjoy the great taste of UNC alum and Pepsi founder Caleb Bradham's delicious carbonated beverage. “Born in the Carolinas” is one of the official trademarks of Pepsi-Cola in its regional marketing strategy. Unlike the cocaine fiends at Coca-Cola, Bradham set out to developing a caffeine free beverage which he believed aided digestion and had no harmful effects. Wanting to have a different soft drink–one without the narcotics so frequently used in others during the time—the druggist experimented with various combinations of juices, spices, and syrups.
His customers most liked the taste of his vanilla, rare oils, and kola nut extract-combination.
An interesting time-travel goal would be to go back and see how these concoctions tasted, as served at the counter, by the guy.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:07 PM on April 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
An interesting time-travel goal would be to go back and see how these concoctions tasted, as served at the counter, by the guy.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:07 PM on April 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
An interesting time-travel goal would be to go back and see how these concoctions tasted
As far as I can tell he only sold the syrup and after being bought out by Loft Candies, they reformulated it to make it less sweet. Pepsi is actually too sweet for my palette so I can't imagine what it would taste like. From reading of the acquisition of Pepsi out of bankruptcy by NY based Loft Candies there was some substantial changes, beyond just making it less sweet. This might be one of the reasons there's actually not a lot about Bradham or the early history of Pepsi compared to Coke. Though who knows what is advertising and what history.
I could find surprisingly little and often contradictory early history on Pepsi. According to some Caleb was an early advertising genius, other accounts say he wasn't. He either pioneered franchising and bottling or did so because he knew little about bottling. Caleb Bradham was more interested in medicine than soft drinks and I'm assuming upper class based on his pursuits and his lifestyle continuing to be upper class through Pepsi's post WWI bankruptcy.
After being bought out I found that an early cola war erupted in NY with Coca-Cola accusing Pepsi of widespread "substitution" which was seemingly somewhat common at the time: selling one product claiming it was another. This made more sense if you realized that substitution actually caused the merchandising and branding we see now as having a logo on a glass bottle became a seal of authenticity.
I think most of us can easily tell the difference between Pepsi and Coke in a blind taste test today, which leads me to believe that the products sold in the early 20th century lacked basic quality control and contained a fairly similar flavor profile if substitution was so common.
posted by geoff. at 11:37 PM on April 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
As far as I can tell he only sold the syrup and after being bought out by Loft Candies, they reformulated it to make it less sweet. Pepsi is actually too sweet for my palette so I can't imagine what it would taste like. From reading of the acquisition of Pepsi out of bankruptcy by NY based Loft Candies there was some substantial changes, beyond just making it less sweet. This might be one of the reasons there's actually not a lot about Bradham or the early history of Pepsi compared to Coke. Though who knows what is advertising and what history.
I could find surprisingly little and often contradictory early history on Pepsi. According to some Caleb was an early advertising genius, other accounts say he wasn't. He either pioneered franchising and bottling or did so because he knew little about bottling. Caleb Bradham was more interested in medicine than soft drinks and I'm assuming upper class based on his pursuits and his lifestyle continuing to be upper class through Pepsi's post WWI bankruptcy.
After being bought out I found that an early cola war erupted in NY with Coca-Cola accusing Pepsi of widespread "substitution" which was seemingly somewhat common at the time: selling one product claiming it was another. This made more sense if you realized that substitution actually caused the merchandising and branding we see now as having a logo on a glass bottle became a seal of authenticity.
I think most of us can easily tell the difference between Pepsi and Coke in a blind taste test today, which leads me to believe that the products sold in the early 20th century lacked basic quality control and contained a fairly similar flavor profile if substitution was so common.
posted by geoff. at 11:37 PM on April 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
@geoff. most of us can easily tell the difference between Pepsi and Coke in a blind taste test today
Maybe so but in the wild that isn't what happens. You're parched, you snag a carbonated bev, you glug it down: job done. Same as in wine: folks shrink back [frisson!] from a white [yellow, green, pale, golden, beige . . . pepsepia] wine with meat as it they'd know the difference in the dark.
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:08 AM on April 5, 2022
Maybe so but in the wild that isn't what happens. You're parched, you snag a carbonated bev, you glug it down: job done. Same as in wine: folks shrink back [frisson!] from a white [yellow, green, pale, golden, beige . . . pepsepia] wine with meat as it they'd know the difference in the dark.
posted by BobTheScientist at 12:08 AM on April 5, 2022
Is metafilter sponsored by Pepsi all of a sudden? What's with this steady march of daily pepsi posts?
posted by LeRoienJaune at 12:25 AM on April 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by LeRoienJaune at 12:25 AM on April 5, 2022 [5 favorites]
Is metafilter sponsored by Pepsi all of a sudden? What's with this steady march of daily pepsi posts?
Either geoff. has a lot of information about Pepsi, or it's the most incompetent viral marketing campaign I've ever heard of. I assume it's the first one? geoff. has a long and meritorious posting history, so I'm inclined to assume good faith.
I cannot fault the quality of the individual posts - they've all been at least intriguing enough and about different topics that all happen to also involve Pepsi, which to be fair is a very large and wealthy corporation which is naturally going to touch a lot of aspects of American life - but I guess I also wouldn't be averse to a final megapost to get all the Pepsi material out of the system
posted by Merus at 1:08 AM on April 5, 2022
Either geoff. has a lot of information about Pepsi, or it's the most incompetent viral marketing campaign I've ever heard of. I assume it's the first one? geoff. has a long and meritorious posting history, so I'm inclined to assume good faith.
I cannot fault the quality of the individual posts - they've all been at least intriguing enough and about different topics that all happen to also involve Pepsi, which to be fair is a very large and wealthy corporation which is naturally going to touch a lot of aspects of American life - but I guess I also wouldn't be averse to a final megapost to get all the Pepsi material out of the system
posted by Merus at 1:08 AM on April 5, 2022
Metafilter: Different topics that all happen to also involve Pepsi.
Look, it's not the 2022 we asked for, but it's the 2022 we've got.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:44 AM on April 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Look, it's not the 2022 we asked for, but it's the 2022 we've got.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:44 AM on April 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Since this has come up multiple times and I cannot tell if it is a joke or not: no I am not a shill for Pepsi. One day there were several contentious threads around the site with everyone being angry. I decided instead of complaining I'd just post interesting links like I saw them and that not everything had to be a Serious Topic. It was surprisingly well received and an enjoyable discussion.
The next day, based I'm sure on my previous day's Internet history, somehow Pepsi stuff kept popping up. It started with the iconic East River sign, but then I found out that was because of Joan Crawford getting back at Coca Cola. That's practically a movie asking to be made by Apple/Paramount+/Netflix. That lead to the building Joan Crawford ended up living in, which by itself had a rich history. Of course that lead to Pepsi's CEO being cozy with Nixon, who was in Dallas for a coke convention, and of course Nixon had the infamous "Kitchen Debate" with Kruschev where Nixon introduced him to Pepsi, which lead Pepsi being really the first multinational to get behind the Iron Curtain.
Most interesting beyond this Pepsi as Evil Bert, behind seemingly every large event in the 20th century, was how little has been documented. It has been exceedingly hard to find out what it is true, what is just copy done by a junior marketing copywriter for a throwaway website, and what is lore. I'm surprised more academic research hasn't gone into this. I'm not a researcher by any means but I try not to post patently false things, and with these Pepsi posts it becomes pretty obvious where sites just crib other sites and pass the same information as their own. Beyond lore there's very little about Caleb Bradham and again, what is there is often contradictory. For being a founder of a major, global corporation there appears to be no definitive biography on him. His grave even is a simple headstone.
They made a movie off Facebook, McDonald's, Uber and Theranos yet there's surprisingly scant details about a company that once convinced a president to overthrow a South American country. It was also the forefront of modern business practices of merchandising, franchising, cost accounting, globalization and modern corporate structure.
I did not know the extent of this a week ago. Again, I might have forced tonight's post a bit to make it relevant to tonight's game since I found the irony of Pepsi's founding literally happening at Chapel Hill and their founder an alum. I have no end goal for this and probably only have a couple posts left on topics I ran across and based on a few suggestions by other users here. I did not set out to make a series of Pepsi posts and said to myself I'd only continue as long as the content was interesting. I personally do not like megaposts, so I try to keep posts to one topic.
After all this I do kind of want to go to New Bern and visit the Pepsi Store (Museum?). I'm flabbergasted they aren't apparently even supported by Pepsi. I've been to the Coca Cola museum and it is what you'd expect a large multinational corporation with too much to spend to be. But I digress the Pepsi Store has enough of the "Rare Visions and Roadside Revelations" quality to it that it merits its own post.
posted by geoff. at 3:06 AM on April 5, 2022 [37 favorites]
The next day, based I'm sure on my previous day's Internet history, somehow Pepsi stuff kept popping up. It started with the iconic East River sign, but then I found out that was because of Joan Crawford getting back at Coca Cola. That's practically a movie asking to be made by Apple/Paramount+/Netflix. That lead to the building Joan Crawford ended up living in, which by itself had a rich history. Of course that lead to Pepsi's CEO being cozy with Nixon, who was in Dallas for a coke convention, and of course Nixon had the infamous "Kitchen Debate" with Kruschev where Nixon introduced him to Pepsi, which lead Pepsi being really the first multinational to get behind the Iron Curtain.
Most interesting beyond this Pepsi as Evil Bert, behind seemingly every large event in the 20th century, was how little has been documented. It has been exceedingly hard to find out what it is true, what is just copy done by a junior marketing copywriter for a throwaway website, and what is lore. I'm surprised more academic research hasn't gone into this. I'm not a researcher by any means but I try not to post patently false things, and with these Pepsi posts it becomes pretty obvious where sites just crib other sites and pass the same information as their own. Beyond lore there's very little about Caleb Bradham and again, what is there is often contradictory. For being a founder of a major, global corporation there appears to be no definitive biography on him. His grave even is a simple headstone.
They made a movie off Facebook, McDonald's, Uber and Theranos yet there's surprisingly scant details about a company that once convinced a president to overthrow a South American country. It was also the forefront of modern business practices of merchandising, franchising, cost accounting, globalization and modern corporate structure.
I did not know the extent of this a week ago. Again, I might have forced tonight's post a bit to make it relevant to tonight's game since I found the irony of Pepsi's founding literally happening at Chapel Hill and their founder an alum. I have no end goal for this and probably only have a couple posts left on topics I ran across and based on a few suggestions by other users here. I did not set out to make a series of Pepsi posts and said to myself I'd only continue as long as the content was interesting. I personally do not like megaposts, so I try to keep posts to one topic.
After all this I do kind of want to go to New Bern and visit the Pepsi Store (Museum?). I'm flabbergasted they aren't apparently even supported by Pepsi. I've been to the Coca Cola museum and it is what you'd expect a large multinational corporation with too much to spend to be. But I digress the Pepsi Store has enough of the "Rare Visions and Roadside Revelations" quality to it that it merits its own post.
posted by geoff. at 3:06 AM on April 5, 2022 [37 favorites]
I was also reading the Wikipedia article on Pepsi recently which stated that Coca-Cola had the opportunity to buy the Pepsi company in the 1920s several times (presumably around bankruptcy time) and did not. I am enjoying Pepsi History Week.
Same as in wine: folks shrink back [frisson!] from a white [yellow, green, pale, golden, beige . . . pepsepia] wine with meat as it they'd know the difference in the dark.
I don't agree with this but my resulting train of thought ("I am sure I would distinguish a shiraz from a riesling...but if you matched two closely related grapes I could probably be deceived...or if the staff were really insistent then my impression might be like "this wine is weird" but not make the leap...") gave me the modernist notion of a restaurant where the menu simply lies to you about certain spices and flavourings as to produce the experience of culinary confusion ("that's a weird tasting X...").
posted by solarion at 3:37 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Same as in wine: folks shrink back [frisson!] from a white [yellow, green, pale, golden, beige . . . pepsepia] wine with meat as it they'd know the difference in the dark.
I don't agree with this but my resulting train of thought ("I am sure I would distinguish a shiraz from a riesling...but if you matched two closely related grapes I could probably be deceived...or if the staff were really insistent then my impression might be like "this wine is weird" but not make the leap...") gave me the modernist notion of a restaurant where the menu simply lies to you about certain spices and flavourings as to produce the experience of culinary confusion ("that's a weird tasting X...").
posted by solarion at 3:37 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
if the staff were really insistent then my impression might be like "this wine is weird" but not make the leap...")
I went to a blind wine tasting recently where they had dyed a Chardonnay red. I was like, huh this is weird, whatever this is I don't like it. But I drank it anyway, because hey free wine.
posted by basalganglia at 4:26 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I went to a blind wine tasting recently where they had dyed a Chardonnay red. I was like, huh this is weird, whatever this is I don't like it. But I drank it anyway, because hey free wine.
posted by basalganglia at 4:26 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
While googling Caleb Bradham's associations with white supremacists, I ran across an interesting source related to soft drink ingredients: "Soft Drinks Containing Caffeine and Extracts of Coca Leaf and Kola Nut" from 1909. Specifically, it lists product names:
Coca Beta
Pilsbury's Coke
Dope
Revive Ola
And many others. The text it's in also has lists of products containing opium and morphine, names of headache remedies, and a list of over-the-counter abortifacients.
posted by Wobbuffet at 5:27 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Coca Beta
Pilsbury's Coke
Dope
Revive Ola
And many others. The text it's in also has lists of products containing opium and morphine, names of headache remedies, and a list of over-the-counter abortifacients.
posted by Wobbuffet at 5:27 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I am enjoying Pepsi History Week.
In 8th grade I moved to the town of New Bern, NC, where Pepsi was invented. This was early 1998, just in time for the 100th Anniversary of Pepsi! They had a parade, opened a museum, it was a whole thing (https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1998/03/08/n-c-town-fetes-brad-s-drink-that-s-pepsi/). So I can quite honestly that I have lived through Pepsi History Week. It was fine, I guess? I was a teenager and not likely to enjoy that kind of thing. I do like the occasional Pepsi, even if Cheerwine is my truest North Carolina soda love.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:30 AM on April 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
In 8th grade I moved to the town of New Bern, NC, where Pepsi was invented. This was early 1998, just in time for the 100th Anniversary of Pepsi! They had a parade, opened a museum, it was a whole thing (https://www.tampabay.com/archive/1998/03/08/n-c-town-fetes-brad-s-drink-that-s-pepsi/). So I can quite honestly that I have lived through Pepsi History Week. It was fine, I guess? I was a teenager and not likely to enjoy that kind of thing. I do like the occasional Pepsi, even if Cheerwine is my truest North Carolina soda love.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 5:30 AM on April 5, 2022 [6 favorites]
Pepsi gets a "C" on the Yale School of Management list of companies' degree of withdrawal from Russia.
posted by NotLost at 6:26 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 6:26 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Is metafilter sponsored by Pepsi all of a sudden? What's with this steady march of daily pepsi posts?
It's purely coincidental. That being said, Pepsi is a fantastic soft drink and should be enjoyed with family and friends. Or while watching the big game. Pepsi-- it's the choice of a new generation. And serious scientific taste tests from the 70s and 80s proved that people chose Pepsi 2 to 1 over Coke.
posted by drstrangelove at 6:44 AM on April 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's purely coincidental. That being said, Pepsi is a fantastic soft drink and should be enjoyed with family and friends. Or while watching the big game. Pepsi-- it's the choice of a new generation. And serious scientific taste tests from the 70s and 80s proved that people chose Pepsi 2 to 1 over Coke.
posted by drstrangelove at 6:44 AM on April 5, 2022 [4 favorites]
Loving the Pepsi posts, but at first I figured it was an April Fool's joke. Five days later, it's a theme.
posted by briank at 7:01 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by briank at 7:01 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I wholeheartedly support Pepsi Villain Origin Story Posts Week, or whatever we're doing. Bring it on. It's not like Pepsi and Metafilter don't have a long history.
Anyway: Cola, and soda in general, is sort of a weird thing. It's a whole category of food product that just didn't exist before a rather specific time. Sodas are the ultimate beverage of the Machine Age. (Caffinated to keep you up and working, nonalcoholic so you don't get your hand torn off in that press brake, virtuous enough to be served at Sunday dinner, but sold in bottles and priced like beer.)
It has a generational element as well, or at least it does in my family. My father, a pre-Boomer, really likes soda. He legitimately enjoys it as a sort of special-occasion beverage, and keeps a few glass-bottle Cokes and root beer and grape soda (!!) in the back of the fridge alongside some IPAs and stuff. You know, for when you're in the mood for that specific thing.
Which makes sense, since he grew up with sodas as a sort of Middle Class Fancy product. He experienced Coke as a product that you sat down at a bar in a pharmacy and paid a guy a nickel for. The price, the experience, all of it aped buying a hard drink at a bar—without going into a bar.
But I grew up with the stuff, at least outside my parents' house, basically being used as a replacement for water. At school, you graduated directly from the elementary school with its milk-or-juice cartons, to the middle school where they had a soda machine. There were drinking fountains, sure: cracked and busted, clearly something leftover from an earlier time. Breast, teat, Coke. (And then probably Budweiser, if you stayed on the plan.)
I was probably part of the demographic that accidentally created the monster that is bottled water, because initially it was refreshing to be able to go into a place and just get water. Oops. I have a stronger brand preference for water (Poland Spring, theblood diamonds whale oil shale petroleum of beverages) than I do for soda. But sometimes you wanted something that wasn't soda. The entire 1980s and early 1990s tastes vaguely like Diet Coke (or is it Diet Pepsi?) to me.
I've been working to come around to my dad's philosophy, though. After detoxing from soda-as-water-replacement, and basically avoiding the stuff for a few years (save the occasional energy drink, but they're medicinal), I've been able to taste some of the more complex flavors of colas for the first time ever. It's not just a vague brown commodity product.
Root beer is still better than cola, though. *Runs for cover*
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:12 AM on April 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
Anyway: Cola, and soda in general, is sort of a weird thing. It's a whole category of food product that just didn't exist before a rather specific time. Sodas are the ultimate beverage of the Machine Age. (Caffinated to keep you up and working, nonalcoholic so you don't get your hand torn off in that press brake, virtuous enough to be served at Sunday dinner, but sold in bottles and priced like beer.)
It has a generational element as well, or at least it does in my family. My father, a pre-Boomer, really likes soda. He legitimately enjoys it as a sort of special-occasion beverage, and keeps a few glass-bottle Cokes and root beer and grape soda (!!) in the back of the fridge alongside some IPAs and stuff. You know, for when you're in the mood for that specific thing.
Which makes sense, since he grew up with sodas as a sort of Middle Class Fancy product. He experienced Coke as a product that you sat down at a bar in a pharmacy and paid a guy a nickel for. The price, the experience, all of it aped buying a hard drink at a bar—without going into a bar.
But I grew up with the stuff, at least outside my parents' house, basically being used as a replacement for water. At school, you graduated directly from the elementary school with its milk-or-juice cartons, to the middle school where they had a soda machine. There were drinking fountains, sure: cracked and busted, clearly something leftover from an earlier time. Breast, teat, Coke. (And then probably Budweiser, if you stayed on the plan.)
I was probably part of the demographic that accidentally created the monster that is bottled water, because initially it was refreshing to be able to go into a place and just get water. Oops. I have a stronger brand preference for water (Poland Spring, the
I've been working to come around to my dad's philosophy, though. After detoxing from soda-as-water-replacement, and basically avoiding the stuff for a few years (save the occasional energy drink, but they're medicinal), I've been able to taste some of the more complex flavors of colas for the first time ever. It's not just a vague brown commodity product.
Root beer is still better than cola, though. *Runs for cover*
posted by Kadin2048 at 7:12 AM on April 5, 2022 [13 favorites]
My thoughts on NC-based soft drinks can be summarized as
________ _ ______________________ / ____/ /_ ___ ___ ______ __(_)___ ___ ____ _____ / ____/_ __/ ____/ __ \ / / / __ \/ _ \/ _ \/ ___/ | /| / / / __ \/ _ \ / __ \/ ___/ / / __ / / / /_ / / / / / /___/ / / / __/ __/ / | |/ |/ / / / / / __/ / /_/ / / / /_/ / / / / __/ / /_/ / \____/_/ /_/\___/\___/_/ |__/|__/_/_/ /_/\___/ \____/_/ \____/ /_/ /_/ \____/posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:25 AM on April 5, 2022 [11 favorites]
This has turned out surprisingly cool, would like to see a post on the Pepsi-Soviet connection alluded to in a previous thread.
posted by blue shadows at 7:36 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 7:36 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
(Although cool is not the word for a cola coup, but very interesting anyway.)
posted by blue shadows at 7:40 AM on April 5, 2022
posted by blue shadows at 7:40 AM on April 5, 2022
Looking forward to seeing a comprehensive post on the Cola Wars, including their influence on Apple via John Sculley.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:24 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:24 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Root beer is definitely better
posted by Jacen at 8:45 AM on April 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 8:45 AM on April 5, 2022 [3 favorites]
I switched to Diet Coke at some point for some reason that eludes me now, but let's face it, Pepsi schmepsi, coke broke, the real and the best cola is RC Cola.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:00 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:00 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Hancock cola is the best cola. Not their Sport Cola at the top of the page, their plain cola further down. It just tastes of more than either Coca-Cola, Pepsi, or any of the other brands I've tried. Just so, so good. I make sure to get a bottle (only comes in 250ml glass) every time I'm back in Denmark - miraculously, there is a shop close to where my parents live that stock it, despite them no longer living within the 30km radius of Hancock where they sell 90+% of their product.
Why yes, it is the cola I had as a kid, when soft drinks were a special treat. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it, Hancock cola is just objectively better. Ahem.
posted by Dysk at 9:26 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Why yes, it is the cola I had as a kid, when soft drinks were a special treat. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it, Hancock cola is just objectively better. Ahem.
posted by Dysk at 9:26 AM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
Which makes sense, since he grew up with sodas as a sort of Middle Class Fancy product.
Soda was far more expensive in the olden days than it is now.
Also, I don't get those at all - like the memes are appropriately milquetoast but the random swearing and the occasional drug references throws it off.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:05 AM on April 5, 2022
Soda was far more expensive in the olden days than it is now.
Also, I don't get those at all - like the memes are appropriately milquetoast but the random swearing and the occasional drug references throws it off.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:05 AM on April 5, 2022
Maybe so but in the wild that isn't what happens. You're parched, you snag a carbonated bev, you glug it down: job done.I’m parched, I find a water fountain, I drink like a camel: job done. I find sodie pop to be one of the least thirst-quenching beverages imaginable. Beer is very thirst-quenching. In fact, I could live happily without ever drinking another soda (exception: soda water—can’t have a brandy and soda without soda).
However, the history of various megabrands can be interesting. I heard the president of PepsiWhatever on a podcast recently and learned that apparently every bagged miracle snack product and beverage is made by them or Coke.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 10:40 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
No one ever mentions Mike's Pepsi needs in these threads. It was all he wanted.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:52 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:52 AM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
Soda was far more expensive in the olden days than it is now.
Yeah, my dad likes to wax rhapsodic about the days of ten-cent hamburgers and nickel Cokes, which puts the cost of a "nickel Coke" in perspective.
Although in fairness: those ten-cent hamburgers weren't Big Macs. They were standard hamburgers, similar to the kind you can still buy at McDonalds today… for $1.49. The menu price of a fountain Coke, right now at my local McD's, is $1 (doesn't matter which size). So if we're going to use the Hamburger Index to compare prices, that Coke has actually gotten more expensive, relative to the food.
The soda companies basically made something that was a special treat in 1950 into a staple by the 80s, while very likely increasing profit margins all around at the same time.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:42 PM on April 5, 2022
Yeah, my dad likes to wax rhapsodic about the days of ten-cent hamburgers and nickel Cokes, which puts the cost of a "nickel Coke" in perspective.
Although in fairness: those ten-cent hamburgers weren't Big Macs. They were standard hamburgers, similar to the kind you can still buy at McDonalds today… for $1.49. The menu price of a fountain Coke, right now at my local McD's, is $1 (doesn't matter which size). So if we're going to use the Hamburger Index to compare prices, that Coke has actually gotten more expensive, relative to the food.
The soda companies basically made something that was a special treat in 1950 into a staple by the 80s, while very likely increasing profit margins all around at the same time.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:42 PM on April 5, 2022
The soda companies basically made something that was a special treat in 1950 into a staple by the 80s, while very likely increasing profit margins all around at the same time.
You can buy a 5 gallon bag of Coke syrup for $176, which nets to 320, 12 oz servings, which nets to 55 cents without the cost of the soda. I'm surprised there's not a Coke Zero syrup knockoff, as generic "Narvon" diet soda is only $45 for a 5 gallon bag of syrup.
posted by geoff. at 2:17 PM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can buy a 5 gallon bag of Coke syrup for $176, which nets to 320, 12 oz servings, which nets to 55 cents without the cost of the soda. I'm surprised there's not a Coke Zero syrup knockoff, as generic "Narvon" diet soda is only $45 for a 5 gallon bag of syrup.
posted by geoff. at 2:17 PM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
No one ever mentions Mike's Pepsi needs in these threads
I did, but I was pretty coy about it.
posted by box at 2:39 PM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I did, but I was pretty coy about it.
posted by box at 2:39 PM on April 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm glad that people like Pepsi and Cheerwine, but Sundrop is actually the best NC beverage. It's from Gastonia, just like my dad.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:26 PM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by hydropsyche at 3:26 PM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
NPR Planet Money: Why Coke Cost A Nickel For 70 Years
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:14 PM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:14 PM on April 5, 2022 [2 favorites]
I've enjoyed these posts, and the concept of a post-series in general.
I grew up in a Coca-Cola household. My grandparents' upholstery shop had a glass bottle coke machine, so they always had endless cases of the stuff in the attached home. Fizzing, warm coke freshly poured over ice and cigarettes are the smell of my childhood. As a teenager I went on a brief Crystal Pepsi binge. I was spending weekends at the house of my mom's partner, and they latched onto the first couple of things I told them I liked and just kept buying them for me. For a year or two, at least 1/2 of my weekly Calorie intake came from fried eggs and Crystal Pepsi. I suspect my life will be a little bit shorter as a result.
I was very surprised to learn that Bilz was first bottled in 1905. Somehow, I always assumed it was much more recent. I was also surprised that the SodaStream company was started in 1903, though it's changed rather a lot since then. The soda boom was brief and global.
I'm a little surprised nobody has ever offered me a reboot of the original Coke or Pepsi. I can understand why nobody can sell it, but it seems low hanging fruit for people bored with home distilling experiments now that Absinthe is easy to buy here. The historic recipe that I'm most tempted to try to recreate, though, is Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda. But, Pemberton’s cocaine wine would also be interesting to try.
posted by eotvos at 10:42 PM on April 5, 2022
I grew up in a Coca-Cola household. My grandparents' upholstery shop had a glass bottle coke machine, so they always had endless cases of the stuff in the attached home. Fizzing, warm coke freshly poured over ice and cigarettes are the smell of my childhood. As a teenager I went on a brief Crystal Pepsi binge. I was spending weekends at the house of my mom's partner, and they latched onto the first couple of things I told them I liked and just kept buying them for me. For a year or two, at least 1/2 of my weekly Calorie intake came from fried eggs and Crystal Pepsi. I suspect my life will be a little bit shorter as a result.
I was very surprised to learn that Bilz was first bottled in 1905. Somehow, I always assumed it was much more recent. I was also surprised that the SodaStream company was started in 1903, though it's changed rather a lot since then. The soda boom was brief and global.
I'm a little surprised nobody has ever offered me a reboot of the original Coke or Pepsi. I can understand why nobody can sell it, but it seems low hanging fruit for people bored with home distilling experiments now that Absinthe is easy to buy here. The historic recipe that I'm most tempted to try to recreate, though, is Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda. But, Pemberton’s cocaine wine would also be interesting to try.
posted by eotvos at 10:42 PM on April 5, 2022
This also makes me think that I should get some kola nut to experiment with. Home made soda with concentrated burdock root and luo han guo tea is the closest I've come so far to an ideal cola-like soda. It's not exactly the same flavor, but it scratches the same itch and I can adjust the sweetness.
posted by eotvos at 10:53 PM on April 5, 2022
posted by eotvos at 10:53 PM on April 5, 2022
as it they'd know the difference in the dark.
? I don't have a particularly discerning palate but I can definitely tell the difference between a white/green/red wine in the dark.
Likewise I haven't had a coke or pepsi in easily 20 years and positive I can tell the difference. Coke is comparatively quite dry.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:35 AM on April 6, 2022
? I don't have a particularly discerning palate but I can definitely tell the difference between a white/green/red wine in the dark.
Likewise I haven't had a coke or pepsi in easily 20 years and positive I can tell the difference. Coke is comparatively quite dry.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:35 AM on April 6, 2022
So I know the discussion has pretty much fizzled (ha) out, but thought I'd add a couple more bits of Pepsi trivia.
I was at a family gathering (funeral) and standing around with a bunch of older relatives at the "dead spread" (what in other regions might be called a "luncheon", but we're a class act) and I was feeling like Starting Shit, so rather than just my usual go-to of asking for theories on the whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa (evergreen), I decided to try Coke v. Pepsi.
Turns out this is an excellent conversational grenade.
Anyway: apparently one of the selling points of Pepsi was that it was cheaper than Coke when originally introduced. The "nickel Coke" was a 6.5 oz glass bottle in the 1950s, while Pepsi—also a nickel—came in a larger 12 oz bottle. That meant, if you were a kid and only had a few pennies to scrape together, you could buy one Pepsi and share it two ways, and get basically the same amount for half the price. And if you had two nickels you could get five pieces of penny candy to boot. I had never heard this before, but I went and looked at some old bottles (some people collect them) and it appears to be correct. Pepsi-Cola moved to 12 ounce bottles in 1934, long before Coke.
Also, the 1973 "Hughes Bill", which made permanent a number of important Federal programs to combat alcoholism, and was a significant political football at the time, was supposedly signed by Nixon only after a personal phone call to Tricky Dick from then-PepsiCo CEO Donald Kendall. The Hughes Bill also began what we might in modern contexts call a "disease model" approach to alcohol abuse (rather than a criminal/punitive one), and is the forerunner of much modern progressive drug policy. What less-than-humanist impulses the head of PepsiCo might have had in shifting consumers away from alcoholic beverages, is left as an exercise for the reader.
This is pretty plausible, because Kendall—who started as a truck driver and worked his way up to the corner office; certainly unrelated to the fact he married rather well—and Nixon had quite the political bromance (a 1976 NYT article notes dryly in a parenthetical that "Mr. Kendall's masseur loosened the Nixon back muscles at the 1972 Republican convention"), and Kendall famously got Nixon to serve Khrushchev a Pepsi in 1959.
Beyond that, it is now well-known that Kendall in 1970 asked for—and got—a sit-down meeting with Henry Kissinger to discuss the situation in Chile, where PepsiCo bottling plants were at risk of state expropriation. Kendall met directly with Nixon in the White House in May, 1972 (Conversation No. 724-004), and even served as a go-between with the Soviets. On September 11, 1973, (Chilean President and probable non-Pepsi-drinker) Allende contracts a fatal case of Cuban lead poisoning during an enthusiastic political demonstration, leading to an abrupt change in leadership, trade liberalization, and general unpleasantness.
And this is how you get from "Coke or Pepsi" to "the CIA killed Allende just like they did Hoffa" "who was a miserable, corrupt shit" "he was a goddamn sa–" "no worse than Nixon?" "racist crook" "just like Joe Kennedy—" "which one?" "Senior!" "you know he went to Boston Latin" "bootlegger" "that's a lie" "lobotomist" "okay that's maybe tr—" "better 'en Teddy" "oh don't start" "Chappaquiddick" "good sailor though" "I haven't had enough to drink for this" "corrupt" "don't talk to me about corrupt with that sticker on your car" TRUMP.
It's a slow burner. Took about 45 minutes.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:36 PM on April 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I was at a family gathering (funeral) and standing around with a bunch of older relatives at the "dead spread" (what in other regions might be called a "luncheon", but we're a class act) and I was feeling like Starting Shit, so rather than just my usual go-to of asking for theories on the whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa (evergreen), I decided to try Coke v. Pepsi.
Turns out this is an excellent conversational grenade.
Anyway: apparently one of the selling points of Pepsi was that it was cheaper than Coke when originally introduced. The "nickel Coke" was a 6.5 oz glass bottle in the 1950s, while Pepsi—also a nickel—came in a larger 12 oz bottle. That meant, if you were a kid and only had a few pennies to scrape together, you could buy one Pepsi and share it two ways, and get basically the same amount for half the price. And if you had two nickels you could get five pieces of penny candy to boot. I had never heard this before, but I went and looked at some old bottles (some people collect them) and it appears to be correct. Pepsi-Cola moved to 12 ounce bottles in 1934, long before Coke.
Also, the 1973 "Hughes Bill", which made permanent a number of important Federal programs to combat alcoholism, and was a significant political football at the time, was supposedly signed by Nixon only after a personal phone call to Tricky Dick from then-PepsiCo CEO Donald Kendall. The Hughes Bill also began what we might in modern contexts call a "disease model" approach to alcohol abuse (rather than a criminal/punitive one), and is the forerunner of much modern progressive drug policy. What less-than-humanist impulses the head of PepsiCo might have had in shifting consumers away from alcoholic beverages, is left as an exercise for the reader.
This is pretty plausible, because Kendall—who started as a truck driver and worked his way up to the corner office; certainly unrelated to the fact he married rather well—and Nixon had quite the political bromance (a 1976 NYT article notes dryly in a parenthetical that "Mr. Kendall's masseur loosened the Nixon back muscles at the 1972 Republican convention"), and Kendall famously got Nixon to serve Khrushchev a Pepsi in 1959.
Beyond that, it is now well-known that Kendall in 1970 asked for—and got—a sit-down meeting with Henry Kissinger to discuss the situation in Chile, where PepsiCo bottling plants were at risk of state expropriation. Kendall met directly with Nixon in the White House in May, 1972 (Conversation No. 724-004), and even served as a go-between with the Soviets. On September 11, 1973, (Chilean President and probable non-Pepsi-drinker) Allende contracts a fatal case of Cuban lead poisoning during an enthusiastic political demonstration, leading to an abrupt change in leadership, trade liberalization, and general unpleasantness.
And this is how you get from "Coke or Pepsi" to "the CIA killed Allende just like they did Hoffa" "who was a miserable, corrupt shit" "he was a goddamn sa–" "no worse than Nixon?" "racist crook" "just like Joe Kennedy—" "which one?" "Senior!" "you know he went to Boston Latin" "bootlegger" "that's a lie" "lobotomist" "okay that's maybe tr—" "better 'en Teddy" "oh don't start" "Chappaquiddick" "good sailor though" "I haven't had enough to drink for this" "corrupt" "don't talk to me about corrupt with that sticker on your car" TRUMP.
It's a slow burner. Took about 45 minutes.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:36 PM on April 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
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